Your reasons for leaving Gyan - please be specific

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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master creator
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Post by master creator » 27 Sep 2007

Om Shanti,

Dear divine brother (Primal.logic),

Can you please let me know your reasons to leave Gyan after 15 years and that too after being so close to the Seniors?

May be your logical reasons can help others develop some insight. Also if you have any word of caution for other BKs, please describe. It would be great if you can write your reply in points.

Thanks in advance.

IBY, *

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Your reasons for leaving Gyan - please be specific

Post by master creator » 03 Oct 2007

Dear brother souls, Om Shanti.

Please share your reasons for leaving Gyan. It could help others gain some insights.

Please give answers in points for easy reading and also provide any words of caution that you would like to highlight for other BK brother souls.

IBY, *

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Oct 2007

I am afraid that I might spoil it for everyone here by answering for everyone but here goes ... take down my statement and use it against me, officer;
  • • All the self-advertising/self aggrandizement and especially VIP chasing that went on rather than genuine service.
    • All the bulls**t, to the point of outright lies, they tell non-BKs. (I was always outfront about what the teachings were).
    • Lack of depth in the teachings/minds of the so-called senior top souls or their inability/unwillingness to answer questions (which since I have seen as a "mental capping" rather than upliftment, and discovered that they were outright lying to us and hiding truths).
    • Lack of faith in their practical leadership (I was 100% behind supporting women as leaders but now I see a lack of balance in it and a lack of common, honest, practical sense and that there was more personal ambition and racial/caste interests involved that I was aware of at the time).
    • The controlling of my life which at the time I took in faith to be directly "inspired by God" and "according to Shrimat" but which now I see in practical terms as protecting their self-interests and severely limited. In short, I used to give them the benefit of the doubt (as we were told to), to trust they were acting under "God's" instructions; now I see they were just making it up as they went along and looking after the business or number one came first.
To be honest, stepping out from under the mental conditioning and confines of the BKWSU has been like having a veil lifted from my eyes. It has been like coming off a drug, or drugs, and I have become - with difficultly - sober and sensible again even if I face putting my life back together again and building it back up from nothing. Its been like leaving life in an opium den and stepping out into the real world.

And now to discover all the historical and philosophical revision ... all the delusion that they had us under ... its amazing. That, and their reaction to this site and to some extent the PBKs too, underlines to me the limitedness of it all. When I was in, I had no idea about the abuses and had not looked at all the crazy behaviour.

I am so grateful for this site which has opened my eyes and helped me to unpick the dirt from within me. I do not even think I am complete clear and back on the path to being a proper human being yet but will keep working at it.

Like many others on this forum, I am of a generation that was encouraged to give up everything; study, career, health, travel, family because "Destruction" was coming so very soon and wasted my life. It was very bad and unenlightened advice that suited their business, because it needs serfs to work for free, but did not help me or my personal growth.

There are a few other threads connected to this one, there may be more;

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Post by howiemac » 03 Oct 2007

1) the strong pressure to renounce loving relationships, including friendship of any sort. Any form of closeness between people was snuffed out deliberately and persistently (of course, there are different rules entirely for the SS).

2) the absolute insistence that their teachings are the ultimate and only "truth" - in spite of the ludicrous and childish nature of some of these beliefs.

3) the absolute refusal to listen to, or tolerate, let alone accept, any form of criticism, no matter how practical. The crushing of independent thought.

4) the insistence on conformity in clothing, BK-speak, and behaviour. Denial of individuality and self expression.

5) preferential treatment according to race, class, gender, wealth, power and influence, in direct defiance of basic and universally accepted spiritual principles.

6) misuse, even abuse, of psychic powers, to lure people in and to trap them within the organisation and its dogmatic belief system.

7) the worship of BB and the SS, in defiance of the Murlis, even while mocking "Bhakti"

(adapted from my post here [cultexit.org])

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Post by alladin » 03 Oct 2007

pls delete!!

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where do we go from here?

Post by alladin » 03 Oct 2007

Thank you Howiemac and ex-l for investing more of your precious time in summarizing things that have already been posted and, although scattered around the Forum, can be read by any newcomer who desires to do so.

I would also suggest Master Creator to take a look at posts collected in the "What's pulling me away" topic, under " Newcomers".

In fact, remembering the "Golden Rule" we learnt during-what was it, Million Minute or Global Coooperation program?- according to which we should express what we like, rather than making a list of what we don't like, I propose that we open a topic such as "Reasons for me to share on this Forum", ( admin wants to help title it??), like in the INCOGNITO song;
"Where do we go from here"

Without you baby
Theres no love in my life (no)
My heads been spinnin' (spinnin')
These small cuts like a knife
Oh mother

Without you baby (without you)
My lonely heart cant find a way (find a way)
My whole worlds fallin'
Apart when you go runnin away

I just wanna know where we go from here
Could this be the end I fear
I just wanna know where
Where do we go from here

We both know that it (aha)
do not matter whos wrong or right (who's wrong or right)
Just as long as we feel the yearnin inside
How is my spiritual development? Have I become skeptical about or left the BKs because I wanted to progress further spiritually and possibly that organization had become a hindrance to my deeper transformation and wasn't helping me in my quest for truth?

Regardless of what the BK establishment may think of this Forum, I think that just like anything else, this wonderful facility can be used as a positive instrument for further "enlightenment", or as an excuse to fall backwards, to justify standstills or as proper "fundamentalist BKs" would define "divorcing Baba and falling into the vices".

Luckily, it seems to me that for most members, the Forum has become an excellent tool for personal growth and clarity, starting from the fact that it helps us to liberate ourselves from lots of mental conditionings acquired whilst BKs. And freedom, possibly more than peace, is the mother of many virtues and discoveries.

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Hello ex-BK's: So what's up these days ...

Post by master creator » 04 Oct 2007

To all the ex-BK brother souls,

In your days of BK life you had the daily routine that included of Amrit Vela, Murli class and traffic control. Now since you are a ex-BK what does your daily routine include these days! (Serious replies only!)

And also please mention what do you do these days, i.e. do you practise anything else like some other form of meditation, NLP etc. etc. Basically, what do you do now or believe now or practise regularly?

IBY, *

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wholehearts

Post by alladin » 04 Oct 2007

Once Master Creator's curiosity is sated, about which practises people are still following or have discontinued, I feel that we could start looking deeper into the motivations behind and the quality of whatever we do.

These are, of course, private matters that anyone can check for himself. Who can tell why someone drags himself out of bed ar 3.30 am? What meditation experiences is he having? Yet Baba taught us that the face and behaviour show everything. A soul that follows practises out of desperation (no where to go!) or compulsion, or wanting to "be good" or impress others, but gets no bliss or enjoyment, will never do Baba good publicity, neither will spread good vibes around.

I feel that it's better to have few minutes meditation when and if we really want to do so, and that can be a state of "love for the Father", than following a routine externally and being dry and fed up inside. Listening to the Murli, meditating, offering Bhog, whatever, to me has a value only if done with joy and love. Would Baba appreciate it if we accepted his invitation to join him for dinner, a play or being his guests for a week-end, if we did not do it wholeheartedly? What would be the point?

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Re: Hello ex-BK's: So what's up these days ...

Post by paulkershaw » 05 Oct 2007

master creator wrote:Now since you are a ex-BK what does your daily routine include these days! (Serious replies only!) Basically, what do you do now or believe now or practise regularly?
Ahha, the sanskara of service in its various guises still come out to play ...

I feel to say that whilst this may make interesting small-talk, we're not really getting to the crux of the matter are we? Dear Master Creator, all these things are basically documented everywhere in this forum by individuals personal postings ... and we cannot really ask you the same question as we all have lived at some time (or some still live) the same daily routine as you probably do now ...

Do please tell me, what you really think about this forum and the role it plays in assisting people heal from the abusive past and current aspects of certain membes of the BKWSU? Do you believe that this need exists per se?

Best wishes
xxx p

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Post by bro neo » 05 Oct 2007

paulkershaw is right master creator, you need to verbalize what’s going in your heart and head right now. Your questions may be an attempt to have some one tell you that magic point on why Raja Yoga is right or wrong. This point is actually already in your self. It could be why you are here. Well, as my duty as Neo, I will give you that point my BK friend.

I lost faith in Raja Yoga; I started to doubt the validity of what the BKs, and the Murlis were telling me.

I put a top 10 list somewhere in this forum, real reasons why I left but I spiced it up in a David Letterman Late Show style, so the order of my reasons were not put in the order I really prioritized them. I don’t think anyone actually got it though. Maybe not a lot of Late Show fans here :? .

Anyhoot, in one point that’s it. Faith/Belief.

I am a hard core perfectionist who believes in all or nothing (it’s the death of me) and when I was a BK it was about ALL. Read everything, did everything, and was totally hypnotized from staring at that dot all the time coupled with reprogramming verbal suggestions.

As I started to do Seva, I also needed to be the best. Any good public speaker knows they should only speak about things they are very, very knowledgeable in, so I was then enmeshed with the constant studying of everything I had to not just talk about but also criticize.

As my knowledge grew I became less and less naïve about all the different aspects of psychology, philosophy, spirituality, metaphysics, technologies, and sciences which are related to Raja Yoga and spirituality in general.

In the beginning of my Raja Yoga days I did what the Murli said, throw away all your books about other things and only study this. After I was adept in Raja Yoga, for the sake of Seva, I had to become adept in what other humans saw as spirituality.

I was a person in a group, a tribe, and took in and believed what they told me, I did what they told me to do, and I had the great power that came from such a large and prosperous group of people. The BKs.

But as I became worldly, my single frame vision of being a BK changed into a perspective of a bigger picture of being a human being. I saw what I perceived as ‘wrongs’ in the BKWSU which was suppose to be ‘right’. My awareness moved from the state of being a member of a tribe to an individual. I took responsibility for what was true in my heart and head and I moved into world and out of the BK tribe.

Let me tell you, like ex-l said (and reading that post brought tears to me eyes), leaving is no picnic. You may have to fight your way through hell, I certainly have, but you gotta look at your self and be responsible for your self. Well I guess you could just suppress the conflict you are going though right now, otherwise you need to ask yourself what you believe and what is right and wrong for your soul. If they are right and you stay with them then everything is grand,

but ... but ...

if they are wrong and you don’t at least search for the real truth you are to say the least, irresponsible and a bad care taker for who you really are. Also your a fake and irresponsible person to the people you interact with on a day to day basis.

Having said all that, at the end of the day no one really knows what is happening down here, not really. So what ever you decide, just have faith in your self don’t take things too seriously, just make it a priority to enjoy your life. This is, at least in part, why we are all here, in the long run. You’ve come a long way, all of us here have, and that’s something to really be appreciative and grateful about.

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voted to martyrdom

Post by alladin » 05 Oct 2007

neo wrote:irresponsible and a bad care taker for who you really are.

Do BKs show any love or respect for themselves, or is the BK life is mainly about forcing oneself to stay in painful situations, being told by SS that the most difficult and painful (i.e. sharing a center or a Bhawan with abusive bossy people or nut cases), the most beneficial?

I observed that, for most BKs, Bk life is made of struggles, suppression, clashes, surrender, renunciation, compulsion, pretence, competition and with all these evil spirits, souls lose self esteem, joy and self confidence. What makes them think that one can go on like that for years? Some Bhakti sanskar that is still working in their minds, telling them that one gets sanctified through sorrow and martyrdom and sacrifice?

Who said that spiritual efforts, progress and transformation should be a painful process? The whole BK system is designed for people to soak in pains as if in a hot-tub too hot or filled with caustic soda. Many leave corroded, burnt and devastated, some don't have the strenght to pull themselves out ... and a few are happy and satisfied.

Is that a spiritual path?

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Post by freedom » 06 Oct 2007

I agree ... one of the resons I left, so many people not BKs around me were much happier, sweeter and lighter in their hearts and did not practiced Raja Yoga ... something was wrong ... why go through pain if REAL God is in front of you ???

Now to me a spiritual path is the one you choose for yourself being true to your heart's desire, regardless of rules, timetables, dressing codes and prizes for who gets to the Golden Age first or serve the president of their country ...

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Post by joel » 06 Oct 2007

freedom wrote:one of the resons I left, so many people not BKs around me were much happier , sweeter and lighter in their hearts and did not practiced Raja Yoga...something was wrong ...
Describing the non-BKs I met, I would also add: intelligent, broad-minded, loving, egalitarian.

Meeting gifted BKs was an attraction to be a part of the group, meeting gifted non-BKs was one of my motivations to leave, telling me that the BKWSU has no particular monopoly on truth, virtue or spirituality.

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monopoly

Post by alladin » 06 Oct 2007

How do we bite into that "monopoly idea" that the BK create about themselves, "we are simply the best", everything and everybody else is rubbish and useless" - except when they want to use their mics or $!?

Did we simply like becoming part of such an elevated clan, the long lost and now found ugly ducklings that become swans, due to intense sacrifice and blind faith?

Or did the Spook give us some pleasant and intense experience in meditation to make our hearts melt, so that we thought, "I realy belong here, a dream has come true (what you would have never imagined to happen, meeting God ... which sounds like some door to door sales technique or a lottery, some enticing way to convince people to buy a rip off device)?? :roll:.

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Post by jannisder » 07 Oct 2007

freedom wrote: so many people not BKs around me were much happier, sweeter and lighter in their hearts and did not practiced Raja Yoga ...
So was i, untill i met a BK.

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