Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
celticgyan
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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by celticgyan » 06 Apr 2008

I think it is sad that children are drawn in in this way. With any religion they should be left alone to make up their own minds and not have it forced down their throats. If anything this is against Shrimat - you have free will after all and this control thing goes too far.

I remember being summoned to London once (I was there on business) to see Maureen as my progress was not good enough. I remember getting a bollocking from her! It was then I decided that there was something wrong with the organisation (not so much the knowledge as it was given with the best of intentions). The more I read this forum, the more I feel that maybe the PBKs are right - but not with everything.

C.

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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by andrey » 07 Apr 2008

Dear ex-l,

Theory is needed to start with. If confusion is there in the theory, then practice will fail too. Practice can fail even when theory is good and clear, but the other way cannot be possible. So, first, we should be clear and sure in this. There should not be doubt, substitution of values, that we change the ideas and start thinking in a wrong way, that whatever is right to prove it wrong etc. It is still better to know what is right, but not be able to follow; some day you may be able. The example is a thief who steals and his heart bites, then he steals again and the heart bites less, then less and less, and for him stealing becomes normal.

So what is normal, what is not? What we should aim for and what we should not? This is of utmost importance. It is only when we have confusion there that we feel sad. For example, if we take the situation with a partner, if two persons are single but one of them things that surely, somewhere, someone is waiting for him, is there for him, i may have not found him, but there is definitely such a person and I am surely to find him, to meet him, then he will feel happy about it no matter he may be alone at the moment and another one may be lonely and sad and feel lost and being left behind ect. It is all a matter of our thinking. If we change this and our world completely changes and our emotions etc. Everything changes.

Regarding the topic raised, the point was that in each situation there is some benefit that we may fail to see. For example, the one who has not tried likes to try and the one who had tried wishes that he did not try. One is likely to turn eyes away from his own situation failing to find what is good there and looking with envy at others.

Many are not happy that in BK there are some rules and one has to follow. Rules in their essence are a good thing and it depends what kind of rules are there. Surely if they are made up just from someone, then they will be proven to suppress and give sorrow to others. Otherwise there could be such rules that may make us free. To be a brahmin, to follow the code of conduct, may be also a matter of some dignity not in its impure form. It is even an honor if one is able to follow such high rules and standarts. And i feel that if someone sees the BK as just one of the spiritual paths, it is wrong.

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Confessions of a teenage Dada

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Apr 2008

Andrey, to be honest, when you talk like this, for me it is more like Vaishnavism. Did you study with the Hare Krishna or is it from a previous birth?

Enlightened is out. ex-BK-ed. I would as best I could support them in where they want to go not where the system wants them to go. They know, and have seen BK, as you have not. You have a family as a support. My guess is that they do not. I think having BK parent or parents could be worse than having none because they are not themselves but "an untried theory of a person" masking who they really are. On top of which it invited in a whole load of other people and their manmat, e.g. center-in-charges, Seniors, gods etc.

I am sorry but until we see some definites that are stuck to by the Holy Ghosts, and an answer to why all the **** in the past, BK theory is just that ... malleable, manipulated and fairly minimal theory. Unhealthy fairy stories. it is fairly universal that all individual's exiting cults have problems coming back to earth. So, please andrey, I will bet that they are not going to back. No point trying to send them there.

One question to enlightened ... if it is not too private ... do you see the role your mother played for you as a mother was healthy or not? Was she acting in a healthy fashion for herself?

In some child cases, I have seen kids pretty well manipulated by parents who were using the Baba factor like a bogieman or somewhere to displace their responsibilities, e.g. they would not talk or listen to the kid and just sent them off to speak to Baba ... like he was a televison for lokiks. "Brother of Child X" wrote on the forum elsewhere wrote how separated he felt from other children of his own age, his Father (whom he had to "serve" rather than be a child to) and how the BK family projected all sorts of demands upon him, e.g. to act as a middle aged Indian man, a teenage Dada, previous lives in the BKWSU and so on.

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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by enlightened » 07 Apr 2008

My parents were really great only the role that both my parents played was unhealthy to a certain extent partly due to not having any money at all when I was born. They did not even have enough milk to feed me with when I was born. Both having to change countries in order to earn a living, to work full time when all the siblings were young and then having the pressure of the BK dogma on top of that, was a bit too much for anyone to handle. But then, I guess my parents had lived through their lives and been through so much when the BKs came along, that maybe the aspect of meditation was good for them but, as for the rest, I believe it was all unnecessary dogma, control, dictatorship etc.

My parents, especially my mother, had a very difficult life. In those days, women did not express their emotions so much, especially in certain cultures. My mother worked so hard that eventually, her health suffered considerably. I love my parents to bits and wouldn't want any different parents. What I would have liked is for the BKs not to have interfered in our lives in the way they did.

Kind regards
Enlightened

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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Apr 2008

I know from my own experience that the BK leadership WILL get involved giving advice on to split up families. Spiritually new born BKs are theirs to save from ignorant lokiks.

What was the turning point for you? How did you become, or what made you realise that you were, "very, very ex-"?

I was one of the generation encouraged to give up university, get a mundane job that left my "intellect free" to do service and remember Baba. At that stage, the world was going to end in the mid to late 1980s. There was interest in my chosen course because it would have, quote-unquote, "brought me into contact with famous people which was good for service" but I realised that if I was going to follow the principles "properly" I was going to have to give it up. The working hours and lifestyle would have made it impossible to be a "good BK".

I was insane to accept advice from them but I, too, was pretty young really. I had no idea and was just trying to "be good". No one told me that you had to look out for yourself or you would just be used. They were insane too basically. I think about them all now sitting reading out their 'politically corrected' Murlis when the very same ones used to read "50" or "50 to 60 years until Destruction" back then. Here we are 70 years on. They still keep a straight face and the donations rolling in.

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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by enlightened » 07 Apr 2008

Dear ex-l

I really don't know the exact turning point for me, however, I think I reached a stage where I was feeling so lonely, traumatised, soul-less, no life, drowning in suppression, domination, powerlessness, rigidity, unhappiness, angry, sad etc. One day, my intuition just told me to stop going and that was kind of it really.

As I mentioned in another topic, God saved my life by inspiring me to leave the Brahma Kumaris. God saved me from really drowning. I actually feel like I am finally climbing up again to the real heights of spirituality by being away from this organisation and more than anything, by being 'myself again'. I don't think I have ever experienced being myself. If I have, it must have been such a long time ago that I cannot even remember what it felt like to be myself.

Regards
Enlightened

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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by celticgyan » 07 Apr 2008

You should never burn your bridges with the BKs. Always give yourself something to go back to. ex-l - you have a sad story.

In fact, we were always told that you needed a good job so that your service would be better, e.g. if you were a lecturer, then you could influence more people than a road sweeper. Still, I suppose they treat sisters differently from the brothers. The brothers were just Taxi drivers after all ...

C.

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Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: It has been over a year that I left the center but still there is a lot of pain in my heart...pain caused by deception. I went in looking to come into grips with my own sense of self and came out with no faith at all. The experience was so bad at times that now I am clear there is no such a god. For that I am grateful. Yet, there were other moments that I would not change for the best of my experiences. I experienced love as I had never imagined! It was a beautiful experience of forbidden love.

Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by driedexbk » 07 Apr 2008

celticgyan wrote: The Brothers were just Taxi drivers after all ...
Oh, no, Celticgyan, sisters play the roll of Taxi drivers, too. Brothers did more than just that ... they carried the baggage just like the sisters without the teacher's badge did.

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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Apr 2008

enlightened wrote:One day, my intuition just told me to stop going and that was kind of it really.
Did you parents react? Was there more pressure there? Did you lose your parents further by leaving?

Standing back from all my experience now, I can see how I/we entered into their "mind drama" in which conflict and confrontation with physical families and "lokik" pulls or interests had been the issue since the beginning. They knew that, we did not. In many ways, I wonder if we just got caught up with their somehow exaggerated and projected psychology that went back to the whole Om Mandli thing. They knew there were going to be "problems with lokiks" and were geared up to it, we did not and were just willing to confirm to "being brahmin".

I was young (first year at university), younger than I realised at the time ... and, sure, many young people grow up in difficult situations, without family etc ... BUT even those who grow up in a "whole society", i.e. one that is not going to be annihilated by nuclear bombs in 2 to 3 years, in which one's first priority is to have to get ahead and look after yourself.

I am not sure how this experience relates to enlightened because she still had "parents", I am interested if her mother became a "sister" to her, i.e. shirked her maternal responsibilities and how many of what could have been fed into the family was instead fed into the BKWSU machine? We read about how there was no contact and affection, I wonder if there was any "fun", general chit-chat, parental advice etc.

I also "came into Gyan" when it was in a more fundamental state, i.e. folks at least tried to follow the principles, and so I can say that there was no talking about careers and personal development ... it was exactly what BK is, "busy, busy, busy ... service plans ... teach the course ... don't burden the intellect ..." no life outside the Yugya whatsoever.

No one to turn to. Of course, one could not go to ask your lokik parents for advice or take it when they tried. Seeing lokiks (physical parents) was "more BK service". As I stand back now, I see how even then the Seniors had the overview and we were all running around inside their world without it. Other intelligence would be a challenge to their leadership. It strikes me having or keeping BKs dumb to them is useful. Normally, in a picture such as enlightened paints, a child of immigrant would be encouraged to keep rising through education and work for the sake of the family if not the self.

I would like to ask how much, in your opinion, that should have been going into the family was instead being sucked out to feed the BK machine ... which, frankly, is and has been based on borderline madness since the beginning. Did the BKWSU give anything back? (I mean, even in churches folks do business and help each other out). In my case, over years of involvement, I think I got asked once to stay at someone's house for a couple of nights and that was about it by way or normal friendship or hospitality.

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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by celticgyan » 08 Apr 2008

I cannot ever remember a sister saying that it would be 2-3 years time. I remember Murlis saying that Baba came like a ship in the night and that nobody knows when he first came and hence the time of Destruction (The 100 year Confluence Age). Also that Destruction could never take place until the children were complete. (He'll have a long wait for this one!). I remember trying to work out the date but being discouraged from doing so. I just worked it out for fun (we have xxx years left so better make the best of them sort of thing!)

From what I have read in other threads, there does appear to be threads of truth in some of the channeled messages - but they are shrouded in red-herrings. Maybe the messages are limited by the intellect and background of the medium. Although Gulzar Dadi is an experienced Yogi, her learning was probably not up to much.

What science did she know for instance? You cannot operate a machine if the operating system is primitive. So there appears to be gems of knowledge followed by bullsh** of the highest order. I just ignored the bullsh** things and got one with life. Did anybody really believe that Destruction would really happen? I thought the whole idea was to live your life as if Destruction was going to place - so be ready to leave in an instance (but don't expect it to REALLY happen!!).

It was a psychological tool to put us above the mundane.When you think positively there is nearly always a positive outcome - that much is true. Else you can change the outcome to your own advantage and progress in some initially unknown way.

By the way, missing your 20s is not a big thing. Your 30s can be more fun and your 40s even better! It's never too late to catch up with sin!! Many people get married in their early 20s and are divorced by their 30s with a few kids.

C.

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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Apr 2008

celticgyan wrote:Did anybody really believe that Destruction would really happen?
An honest question. Perhaps the honest answer, at a deep level, is no ... which is where the entire organization and philosophy fails.

But I suggest the sub-conscious mind, rather like a child we have here, probably does absorb it all in and build its reality around it. Advertising, brainwashing, does work. I imagine for a child it is 10,000 times more real, just as they believe in fairy stories and Santa Claus.
It's never too late to catch up with sin!! Many people get married in their early 20s and are divorced by their 30s with a few kids.
Perhaps we should adopt that first sentence as the by line for this website ...
Brahma Kumaris Info (ex-BK)
It's never too late to catch up with sin ... or salsa.
Looking back on my life, I think when you are young is a great time to get all those things out of your system and, for women especially, there are biological clocks limiting us ... despite the best attempts of science.

I share 'enlightened' feelings ,and at least I had 'some' teenage. If the Cycle was to end tomorrow, and I was to face Dharamraj, I would not regret walking out of the BKWSU and "destroying my fortune" for eternity at all. I would regret not loving and being love back as an ordinary "piece of meat"; being young, stupid and carefree and I see how important it is for creating the social skills and the social connections necessary to thrive in a society. BK society does not yet have all the necessary parts for individuals to thrive and, hence, it is parasitical on normal life whilst at the same time condemning it.

Imagine growing up never having been even held, or dancing, even just kept warm at night. Is that really such a terrible "sin" and is what most of those Brahma-kumari teacher have better? Life is much bigger than their world. I don't know enlightened and so I am not writing about their case, but I think most Indian kids in general have a pretty ******* time in the West, and those are who we are talking here more likely to be under the influence of the BKs.

I can see how it was a reasonable reaction against their place in history ... the Panchayat Sind of the 30s. I think they made the mistake many other fundamental religions do or pickling themselves in aspic and remaining frozen in that time. BapDada and their myth has become empowered by all the psychic energy and embellished by the wealth poured into it but I don't think even BapDada really knows what is going on and what time it is.

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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by celticgyan » 08 Apr 2008

Och ... sin's not all what it's cracked up to be! It's very much over-rated! There are a great many dating sites on-line now which makes the whole process much easier - especially for a woman. Put an ad on and you could get 50 replies. You won't always get happiness from it though, as you well know. Never to have been held or kissed - yes, not so good but plenty of time as I said. It does only give temporary happiness, right enough, but people should chose for themselves.

I remember when I was about 19 and my first visit to the Kilburn BKs. I stayed for the weekend with some other visitors from around the world (with brothers). Some of their tales would have made your hair stand on end (the newbies that is). Umpteen women and failed relationships etc. I looked in amazement ... I had never even kissed a girl ... what was it all about? How could I not my head when they said they wanted to get away from that kind of life when I had not yet experienced it myself. Chance would be a fine thing I thought and buggered off! I came back about 18 years later.

Good wishes to you and all others who fall into this catagory ...

C.

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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by enlightened » 08 Apr 2008

ex-l wrote:Did you parents react? Was there more pressure there? Did you lose your parents further by leaving?
Of course my BK parent reacted but fortunately I did not lose my parents because of that. I still felt a certain pressure though, a certain restriction in trying to live a normal life.
I am not sure how this experience relates to enlightened because she still had "parents", I am interested if her mother became a "Sister" to her, i.e. shirked her maternal responsibilities and how many of what could have been fed into the family was instead fed into the BKWSU machine? We read about how there was no contact and affection, I wonder if there was any "fun", general chit-chat, parental advice etc.

I would like to ask how much, in your opinion, that should have been going into the family was instead being sucked out to feed the BK machine ... which, frankly, is and has been based on borderline madness since the beginning. Did the BKWSU give anything back? (I mean, even in churches folks do business and help each other out). In my case, over years of involvement, I think I got asked once to stay at someone's house for a couple of nights and that was about it by way or normal friendship or hospitality.
It was a one way relationship with the BKs. All you had to do was give, give, give, or else!! You wouldn't dare to ask for help or ask for anything back as to 'ask for help' or to 'ask for anything' was also considered to be like a sin. The Murlis and the classes encouraged you to give 'your bones' in the name of God, in the name of service. Everything else should be secondary including your own body and soul. Even if your body was suffering from bad health, they would encourage you to continue doing service. They said that by doing BK service, especially things like helping them clean their centres, etc that you would burn away your past sins!!! what a load of bullsh**.

Fortunately, my parent could not move away from certain responsibilities as they could not afford to do so. I think the main areas of responsibility that were not fulfilled were lack of affection, fun, general chit chat, parental advice etc as you mentioned. This could partly be due to cultural reasons, their lack of education, the fact that both parents had to work full-time in order to survive and to feed all of us siblings on top of all the household chores and looking after all of us etc. But as the BK parent's health did suffer later on, they did spend more and more time involved with the BKs and I almost felt obliged to do the same for various reasons. The BKs became that parent's world, hence I was vulnerable and susceptible to that environment as a child and so, before I realised, it became my world too!

Looking back now, I think I must have been torn between the two worlds. I must have had frustration inside as a child but was unable or not encouraged to express this for some reason. I think that there must have been so much happening with my immediate family that I must have blocked all the pain and suffering inside me as I cannot really remember a lot of my childhood as well as adolescence. The BK doctrine also discouraged one to express themselves and so that obviously did not help me in my growth from a child to adulthood.

What was more frustrating over time was the fact that one parent followed BK and the other did not and half the siblings followed BK and the other half did not. I think this created so much confusion for me and I felt kind of different from my other siblings. I was unable to relate with them in a so called 'normal way' in a way I could be myself. I felt very, very lonely.

For years and years and years, all i did was to give, give and give. All I did was to please my parents, to please the BK's, to please the world!!! And look where it got me!!! They even used to drum into my head that I must not count how much I am doing for others, how much service I am doing. This was considered as having ego and it was not considered as serving altruistically. They used to say that, "you should never say no to service". You will create a great fortune through doing service. 'My foot'. What fortune did I create? The fortune of suppression, rigidity, being controlled, feeling powerless, being dominated, being vulnerable, being mentally, verbally and physical abused by members of the organisation. What kind of fortune do you call that?

I could go on and on but have to go now.
Best wishes
Enlightened

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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by ermine » 08 Apr 2008

Dear Sister


It looks like that you never been happy in BK it is so terrible due to has nothing to do with spiritual life at all just deep gloom daily routine.
Why you're are blaming BK if you have been there but in other hand you have to go to university and to get high education and study properly. I have never seen in Murli that it is directly unnecessary. More over the skills which we acquired during the cycle time must be beneficial.There is some illusive expression due to ill misinterpretation by Bs and Ss themselves but it is obviously personal matter.
This is question about parents involvement and sociology, probably they had already lived in Golden Age. Maybe her parents had prepared this holy child for Sisters' Leadership using materialistic tolls in spiritual community. But is their personal count and child was just instrument in their hands bur they entirely wanted to good things for daughter.

It is time to go there even if she has not got "Civil" or "lokik" Degree.
Everything depend on, whether you are from traditional BK Western or Asian family?
God bless you child I have got children also they did not interesting in BK, just some time but specifically Hatha Yoga and Reiki, one is History of Art student other one is Business and Accounting student. Family relationship is very difficult to resolve, Nightmare of drama and karma.
see you soon in....
take care yourself
Million blessings child

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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by bansy » 08 Apr 2008

Dear enlightened,

Thanks for sharing your history.

Work out your priorities now, for your life and in your relationships, and move on. Don't fear what you do, do your best. If you are to think of the past, then try to focus on the positive aspects of the pasts, don't let the negatives drag you down. You cannot remove the past because it is recorded in you but like any good and bad music, you want to hear and play the good music.

Now you have recognised the situation you are in, you will be sure to better for it. Each person always think that their own life is worse and has suffered more than any other person's, that their position is worse than another. But there is always someone better and there is always someone worse than where you are, for all sorts of reasons.

Welcome to the forum.

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