Cult-like aspects of BKWSU

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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Cult-like aspects of BKWSU

Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Jul 2006

One of the issues that has never left me, one in which I feel fully sympathetic to BK followers, is paraphrased in the title question, " if not this cult ... which cult? ".

In adding some domain names to this Forum's Links page above, I was looking over the pages at Rick Ross and many other anti cult websites. It was quite a deeply depressing and distasteful experience. From my point of view, the BK path is and should be seen and followed as an esoteric, and possibly occult, yogic practice. That is to say, one intended for or understood by only a small, prepared, particular group and recognised to have profound, deep effects upon the individual.

It should have been developed to manage those effects safely and the "Knowledge" understood at a deeper, often metaphorical or allegorical level. And, of course, developed further. In short, the BKWSU should have become the BKWSU, or a proper esoteric school. In my opinion, what has happened is that fairly universal spiritual knowledge and elements of the practise HAVE been taken, stolen if you like, stultified and the movement without any doubt turned into a populist cult. A Religio-Political cult as the founder himself stated.

I feel forced to accept that for a number of reasons BK Raja Yoga has been made into a cult rather than 'a practise' and this means that I have to face and accept the shame, and idiocy, of having been a cult member and look at overcoming it.

This has not been easy butlooking at the definitions given of what a cult is and the shared experiences of other non-related cult members, it is impossible NOT to be able to accept the very close similarities. From the mere matter of fact that involving any sizable group of human beings will bring onboard 'human luggage' [ or even animal instincts, e.g. pecking orders, pack instincts, outcasting ], to including the influence of certain individuals' obvious personal ambitions and unexpressed abilities or tendancies, it seems that BK Raja Yoga and the BKWSU has taken away from the source of its teaching andused for other more personal reasons. Or, as Sparkal questioned in one of his provocative posts, the will of so called BKs with political or guru sanskars from previous births.

OK. To paraphrase the Twelve Steps Plan of the Alcoholics Anonymous ... " My name is ex-l and I used to be a member of a cult ... I used to be such an addicted cult member that I converted others into become cult members, justified and encourages cult behaviour and defended the leaders of that cult ".

Fine. What is next? What is normal and acceptable? Who am I? Who do I become now? What is reality all about? Reading the 'ex-cult cults', and their leaders rants, I am even more sickened and depressed than I think I ever was at my lowest after Gyan.

Firstly, a number of clear patterns emerge. It seems that for every spiritual group or cult, there is an ex-cult; for every guru an accuser. The pattern and expression of the accusation seem very similar; sex, funny stuff with kids, breakdown of relationships, mental health issues. On the sides of this battlefield are two other self-interested parties ; the academics and anti-cult cults.

Now, the anti-cult movement, or cult, was first on the scene like hungry rabid dogs after a war and I have to accuse them the most; firstly, for being so ******* Amuhrikan they are unbelievable. I hope you can understand what I mean, I attempt to separate thoughful American from dumbass 'Ahmurikan' ; invariably born-again Christian, completely blind to the cult-like aspect of the American Dream, unquestionly mainstream, capitalist, bigotted, self-centred, aggressive, invasive and completely unaware and disinterested in others culture. Just like their nation's foreign policy.

Just pile on all the worst stereotypes of New Americans that you can imagine, these guys are fighting Satan for Ahmurikas Youth and if they were not, you get the feeling that they would be just as happy napalming gooks, whipping niggers, nuking commie and shooting long-haired, liberal pinko scum. EVERYONE that is not them IS A CULT!!! You name ... ITS A CULT!!! And they know that cults are full of gook-loving hippie, nigger, commie pinko scum. Just as America, the Land of the Extreme, has given us the most dangerous and whacko cults, it has also given us the most dangerous and whacko anti-cults. [ It has, of course, also turned it into a highly financially rewarding activity both for therapists and endless underemployed lawyers ]. I am talking about the de-programming, pop psychologist, snatch artists.

I look at Rick Ross's [ $200.00 per hour, average intervention costs about $3,750.00 in fees plus expenses, which are usually below $1,000 ] "Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader" and "Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader" and say, " Yup ... " almost every one relates directly to the President of American and your average middle-American in my experience.http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html

This model has then been exported internationally, albeit in diluted form and with lower hourly rates, primarily by evangelical Christian individuals and organisations who has seen the "success", status and interest anti-cult cults have created in American. For the lack of any other better idea, or will to deal with real issues such as the environment, Third World Debt, the effects of Imperialism, they want to cash in on the action locally and create. They use the same fear/aggression/Pro-Good-Christian-White-Folks based language.

The dice are loaded like the Zionist - Anti-Zionist debate. If you utter a word against Israel, you are accused of being an anti-semite; for these people if you utter a word in favour of the unorthodox, you are scorned as a dangerous cult-apologist. We even have "anti-cult terrorism" engaging in "deviancy amplification spirals" now. And, no, they are not 5,000 year long. On to the back of this are the academics who have discovered rich fields of booty to gleen through. Just as the 70s seemed to be the heyday of the anti-cult, the 80s seem to have been a big business research funding dream for academics. The Godhead amongst the New Religion Movement - and close ally to the BKWSU - Sociologist Eileen Barker identifies five types of group ;

• cult-awareness groups (CAGs) focusing on the harm done by destructive cults
• counter-cult groups (CCGs) focusing on the (heretical) teaching of non-mainstream groups
• research-orientated groups (ROGs) focusing on beliefs, practices and comparisons
• human-rights groups (HRGs) focusing on the human rights of religious minorities
• cult-defender groups (CDGs) focusing on defending cults and exposing CAG

This model as well has been exported internationally so that for a few years some lucky academics in each and every developed nation seemed to have coined public funds to study the danger in their midsts. And after a short circuit of international conferences for them, this too has largely dried up it seems. At their side are the amateur scientist Skeptic Societies just chuckling facetiously at all the madness of it all, going, " poo-bah ... there is no Santa Claus ", and enjoying bursting the children's balloons. The lucky few of them making a bob or two out of magazines, conferences and magic shows.

Lastly, are the 'cult of media' fanning the flames madly in order to sell another book, magazine, run of papers and the intelligence departments of most developed nations digging the dirt to justify their funding to investigate these proto-dangerous terrorists. Yes, you believe it. Some CIA, MI5, KGB and MOSSAD spook has been down the BK Raja Yoga Inner Space shop to infiltrate the Brahma Kumaris. God, I wonder how long they got up at 4 am in the morning but at least they will take a birth or two in the Golden Age for their efforts. Of course, these guys have largely bailed out of the debate now that they have found - or funded - some real terrorists instead but it is funny to think that you might have sat down to teach Raja Yoga to an agent from SMERSH and Dadi force fed them toli. I wonder how they reported on the finer details of the Subtle Regions to their boss?


Meanwhile - back in the real world - the Planet Earth is still burning, pollution spreading, mad hydro-carbon politics drive us to the brink of World War, a billion people without adequate food, clothing or shelter ...OK. So I have left the cult, which cult do I join now? Do I just say, " What the hell! ", buy a gun and an SUV, start drinking beer, watch porn, invade a developing nation, rip off its natural resources - and go to church on a Sunday. Swallowing a glass of whatever the anti-cult cult members are brewing, I am heading back into the cult. It was far nicer in there. I had much better hopes for the future, the people were more interesting and amusing, no one was really sticking anything down my throat. I was doing it myself. I am happy to give up sex if that is the pay off. It is not such a big deal. So what is it that they are selling? They want to convert me out of my cult but into what? What is their cult all about?

There seems to be a tendency of human being to easily fall into ruts and follow other's tracks. There seem to be a lack of ruts to follow. Which one gets me out of here fast I have had enough of this!?!

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Post by mr green » 04 Jul 2006

Surely the answer is just ... no cult.

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Post by howiemac » 04 Jul 2006

Mr Green wrote:surely the answer is just ... no cult
Seconded :)

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Post by jamesy » 04 Jul 2006

..Well, you could do a lot worse that becoming an Eckhart Tolle devotee.

But if it's a yearning for a return to intense group bonding, you could try Worth Abbey. There was a documentary series about them on telly recently. Came across as genuinely spiritual and right nice folk with it.

http://www.worthabbey.net/bbc/

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Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Jul 2006

Mr Green wrote:surely the answer is just ....no cult
Oh, OK. Would all the prospective members of the 'No Cult' cult queue up in an orderly line outside the door.

Now ... first we have to appoint a committee ... and then make some rules governing what is considered not being a cult member ... set a membership fee - probably a percentage tithe off member's salary ... a badge or uniform so that we can differentiate ourselves from cult members ... we will need somewhere to meet so we best encourage someone to donate their house when they die ... start a website so that others might join us ... [check] ... logo ... attend inter-lack-of-faith meetings to do PR ... then get a shop on a high street ...

Oh. Hold on ... are we a theist 'No Cult' cult or an athesit 'No Cult' cult ? I can sense a splitting of the tree already. [ cue : vomit ] Seriously though ... Yes, the aim might be the perfect Taoist Cult that that has no name, but what do we fall back on in the meanwhile? After all those bhattis and morning classes, after all that Yoga and service, after 'NOT HAVING SEX' for so long; when you left, who did you become again?

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oh so juicey

Post by primal.logic » 05 Jul 2006

Well, I am in agreement with everyone here - but I cannot help feel that we are just going around in circles - or cycles. Maybe its just a really deep habit? But I am with Jamesy - The Power of Now lifted me out of this conundrum almost instantly: I am hearing all your questions ex-l. I spent 5 years deeply traumatised by the same questions. But the real issue I think is confusion about who I am.

We resolved it temporarily as BKs with all the hogwash about being 'special' deity souls. But post-Gyan we come right back to the same issue with added trauma. But as Tolle points out, it is my ego that is confused, not me. And the main reason we are confused is simply because we think too much. Thinking is the problem, not the solution. STOP, be here, right now. Look around. Be present. Actually there is no problem. All the problems belong to the past and the future, which, ultimately, is all fiction. I don't want to sound reductionist or cliche, but really, get the book.

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PBKs on internal Brahmin Cults

Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Aug 2006

From; http://www.advance-party.com/golden.htm
also http://www.advance-party.com/summary1.htm
These last 7 LaxmiNarayans are very much present in the Brahmin family today and are the self-proclaimed rulers who are calling the shots in Mt. Abu. They can be very easily recognised (with Advance knowledge of course). In the near future the whole Brahmin family will separate out into 8 different groups corresponding to the 8 different religions mentioned above. Each group-Head and his followers will be recognised by their sanskaras and their actions specific to that religion, and the subtle differences and silent hostility, which is apparently present in the Brahmin family today will emerge in its full colours as the Confluence Age nears its end.

At the present moment, obviously they are keeping their sanskars in check because they are united by their common platform of accepting Gulzar Dadi to be the Chariot of BapDada. All BKs hold the Avyakt Vanis in reverence and once this myth is broken their faith will be tested. As the groups separate out, there will be total chaos and confusion and lot of in-fighting between the groups as each group tries to gain control over the Yagya. Baba has said in the Murlis that when the head (Father) of the family is away, the children fight amongst themselves for supremacy. This will be reflected in the outside world resulting in religious riots-class and communal war-breakdown of industrial machinery-economic standstill and total anarchy.

The main fight between the Christian and the Communist group will ultimately culminate in transferring the power to Prajapita-Father of Humanity (Ram’s soul) who will be called upon to take charge of the crumbling Empire of the BK’s and herald the dawn of Ram Rajya.
I was looking at the PBK site and picked up on this stuff. One of the more interesting things about the PBK take on Gyan is that they internalize it into the Brahmin world rather than externalizing onto the "world out there" as the BKs do. I find this aspect encouraging. In psychotherapeutic terms, looking at the self rather looking outwards and blaming or accusing others is seen as a positive step. Here the PBKs, or their Baba, stick their necks out and make some very interesting prophesies. Which, of course, if they fail will condemn them ... or just be re-interpreted I suppose. What looks most entertaining is a complete breakdown of internal structure and conflicting factionalism within the BKs.

The gist is that all the main religions are founded in the Golden Age by different groups of Brahmin souls. And all those groups will emerge and conflict now in the Confluence Age. As I understand it, the main fight, they state, will be between the 'Christian' BK Front and the 'Communist' BK Front. Now, OK, I am scratching my head a little on this one wondering where we are being classified ... are we merely the Revolutionary Front of the Commie BK Resistance? Irreverent, anarchic, godless but still RajYogis?

The breakdown is a little bit unusual. They state 'Islam' as being different from 'Muslim'. By 'Islam' they must mean 'Judaism', I wonder why so named? One for Arjun to unpick ...

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Brainwashing Cult

Post by andyh » 27 Sep 2006

Hi All,

Pardon me for not contributing sooner, but there hasn’t been too much need as you guys have been doing such a good job in covering a wide range of issues. Keep it up, it all makes for good and often hilarious lunchtime reading. Anyway I thought I’d start a topic…

A good while back I read an article in the “New Scientist” which listed the signs of brainwashing and was somewhat shocked that as a BK I had been “gently” brainwashed. Unfortunately I can’t find that article so instead I had a look on the web for something equivalent, however, instead I came across the article called “Cult Checklist” on Wikipedia i.e.click here. Reading through the various definitions you cannot but conclude that the BKWSU is a “Hindu based Doomsday Cult” or putting in more positively a “Hindu based World Renewal Cult”. The main thing to stress is that they are a CULT.

To counter this claim I remember the Seniors in London always insisting that the organisation couldn’t be called a cult because “everyone was free to leave” i.e. that there was not coercion in the movement. But the real fact was that everyone’s belief (through brainwashing, though gentle) was that there was absolutely nowhere to go, apart from HELL! Leaving simply meant failure, falling prey to Maya, falling from the 5th floor, having to endure Kaliyug/Hell without any support, being the greatest fools, etc. So yes “everyone was free to leave” but typically wouldn’t leave based on FEAR. Those that did were considered stupid, weak minded or helpless, a stigma which again would reinforce the folly of leaving. However, the irony is that now we ex-BK’s know that we are the wisest, most strong minded and courageous of the former BK’s.

So yes, I assert that the BKWSU is a CULT and indeed I am happy to report it is listed as a cult on other pages in the Wikipedia as a warning to other souls thinking of approaching the organisation. Sure “brainwashing” is apparent in all works of life i.e. parental brainwashing when we grow up i.e. we typically take on our parents beliefs until we are able to think independently, employer brainwashing i.e. taking on our employers attitude to work, customer service, quality, etc in our workplaces. Luckily for me these parental, employer and other “brainwashings” have left a positive legacy, unfortunately for many this may be quite to the contrary. However, one thing is for certain and that is that no-one need experience the brainwashing of the BKWSU cult.

Unfortunately, the effects of brainwashing do last a considerable amount of time, hence some of the basis for the phrase “Once a BK, always a BK” and I myself still act in a cold dispassionate/detached/uncaring way on occasion i.e. even more reason why people should avoid the BKWSU. As mentioned in my “Critique of the BKWSU Philosophy”even though a good appreciation of spiritual values and virtues can be gleaned from the BKWSU the cost is way too high even in terms of the risk to your mental health let alone your physical wealth.

Cheers

Andy

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Post by mr green » 03 Oct 2006

Yes, this is true from my experience ... It took me about 3 years to actually physically leave the bastards ... And to actually undo the dogma and feel normal ... who knows, I'll tell you when it happens :evil:

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Post by eromain » 06 Oct 2006

hi andy,
thanks for a great post. just wanted to say i agree very strongly with what you say. I left in 1989 and i still have a whole load of it hanging round the insides of me. it is strange that one can know that something is irrelevent / illogical / unhelpful / inappropriate / untrue / unjust / unspiritual etc etc just plain wrong wrong wrong in so many ways BUT one is incapable of just forgetting about it. That for me is the proof of the programming -you cannot freely choose to leave it behind. in someways being an ex-BK is a kind of pathological condition. the most commonplace term for what i think is at the heart of the process is hypnosis. read a book on hypnosis or self-hypnosis and most of what the BKs do to you will be in there. i have yet to speak to a bk who has the courage to read a book on hypnosis. it was the first accusation ever made of them -right back in the 1930s they were accused of it. I brought it up in my child protection document and its like they have learnt not to even hear the word. for myself i learnt to understand hypnosis so that i could un-hypnotise myself and i found that to be a very helpful thing to do. i also learnt a fair bit of NLP which i find very helpful for both understanding why the bk stuff gets so deep inside one and also how to get it out.
cheers
eugene

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Post by bkdimok » 07 Oct 2006

eromain wrote: I have yet to speak to a BK who has the courage to read a book on hypnosis.
Dear soul. Om Shanti.
If you are looking for a BK who have read a book on hypnosis? Then I am at your service.

With regards.
BK Dimok

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hypnosis

Post by eromain » 07 Oct 2006

Hi BKDimOK,

Great to hear from you.
I suppose I would love to hear if you have any reservations about a) using the techniques of bk Raja Yoga on the young and the inexperienced given that one cannot discount a hypnotic effect contributing to the resultant experiences and b) the practice of claiming that the resulting experiences have any bearing on the truth or falsity of your paths beliefs -the idea that intense authentic-feeling experiences give the beliefs more credibility as being "true".

thanks
eugene

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Re: hypnosis

Post by bkdimok » 07 Oct 2006

eromain wrote:I suppose I would love to hear if you have any reservations about a) using the techniques of BK Raja Yoga on the young and the inexperienced given that one cannot discount a hypnotic effect contributing to the resultant experiences and b) the practice of claiming that the resulting experiences have any bearing on the truth or falsity of your paths beliefs -the idea that intense authentic-feeling experiences give the beliefs more credibility as being "true".
Dear soul. Om Shanti. First of all let's clear out some statements. After that I could give my opinion properly.

What do you mean under "hypnotic effect", "resultant experiences" and how do hypnotic effects contributes resultant experiences?

With regards.
BK Dmitry

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Post by eromain » 07 Oct 2006

By “hypnotic effect” I meant any influence upon a person or any change in that person caused by hypnosis.

By “resulting experiences” I meant the experiences a person might feel because of their practice of a BK Raja Yoga meditation.

I assume you agree that hypnosis can influence a person, and we both know that BK meditation does. I’m asking you in essence how you distinguish one from the other –both in terms of input (the process or techniques of them respectively) and in terms of output (the resultant effects upon a person)

My second question is whether or not you have any reservations about the BK habit of pointing to intense first person experiences as validating or adding substance to assertions about objective truth.

Hope my clarifications help.

Thanks
eugene

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Post by bkdimok » 07 Oct 2006

eromain wrote:I assume you agree that hypnosis can influence a person, and we both know that BK meditation does.
Dear soul. I do know that BK meditation can influence a person. But I am not agree that it is hypnosis.
I’m asking you in essence how you distinguish one from the other – both in terms of input (the process or techniques of them respectively) and in terms of output (the resultant effects upon a person)
Sorry, my English is not so good, so I did not understand that question. Can you ask it once again in other words?
My second question is whether or not you have any reservations about the BK habit of pointing to intense first person experiences as validating or adding substance to assertions about objective truth.
The only reservation I have about that issue is that these first experiences helped me very much in the beginning of my study. There was no understanding of all aspects of Knowledge, but there was first experience of soul conscious. So I wanted to look what will happen with all my questions about knowledge. Some time passed and I had achieved answers to almost all questions which I had and even to those which I hadn't. All I was doing is practicing soul conscious and collecting information from Murli. As for what to consider truth, I suppose that everyone must base upon his own life experience.

With regards.
BK Dmitry

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