How Big is your Badge

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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john
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Post by john » 03 Jan 2007

why he wore a loincloth
? Why did he?

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bansy
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Post by bansy » 03 Jan 2007

What I understand is that that cotton from UK at the time of British rule was draining the cotton industry in India, so Gandhi protested against the British trade and stopped others from wearing anything other than home-spun cotton. However, he then realised that when many of the locals followed him and burnt their overseas cottons, they had else little to wear. Gandhi himself decided to wear as little as not to make the poorer ones feel that if he did not have any clothes, so as they should not feel downtrodden, and they should spin their own cotton to make their own clothes. He disliked the caste system. The image of Gandhi is one with a loincloth, even went to Buckingham Palace wearing it. In some ways it also shows how little attachment he had of any possessions.

The google video is not directly to BK life itself, but it does give some archive of how India was during those turbulent times going up to Independence. I would expect Lekhraj Kirpalani would have known what was going on. Even Gandhi was often given the title "Father of the Nation", and such was mentioned again by the newly inaugurated Indian Prime Minister Nehru, even during his state funeral and cremation.

For some fun, Mahatma Gandhi lived October 2, 1869 – January 30, 1948 according to wikipedia, not that I should suggest the years of the dates should coincided with dates mentioned in various places in the BK history :lol:

It would be nice to find out from BKs and PBKs of Indian origin how Gandhi stands as a Mah"atma". Gandhi, of course, spoke English and Hindi.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Jan 2007

bansy wrote: I often wonder if some of the ideas Brahma Baba (Dada Lekhraj) had were gotten from Mahatma Gandhi himself since Gandhi's life came just a few years before Dada Lekhraj's.
My research suggest to me that the Yagya as a whole is a lot more "monkey-see monkey-do" than it would like to admit or even realise, thinking itself that it is entirely new or God inspired. Therefore, I think there is a strong essence of the truth in what you say and that Lekhraj Kirpalani would have picked up inspiration from Gandhi, even as a competitor for his position as Father of the People [Bapuji] and Gandhi was mentioned in the Murlis. I definitely think that Lekhraj Kirpalani was caught up with the whole issue of Indian nationalism and the Partition, and that the Yagya and the Sakar Murlis REEKED of it.

This is understandable as he was part-human, this was part of his humanness, and that the Yagya was in reaction against other "patriot" groups such as the Arya Samaj. The courtcases, organized social and political resistance by other Hindus in the Sindh must have had an effect upon his mind. It is worth noting that the current oligarchy within the BKWSU is keen to airbrush all this out of their history.

The Sindhi Hindis had a very extraordinary position of living in the original "Sapta-Sindhu" whilst yet being entirely in alien occupied territory. This paradox, along with their mercantile nature, sculpted the Sindhi sanskars in a particular way. One of which was that business became their religion but the Hindu patriot element would also have been pronounced and corrupted. There is no one more patriotic that a patriot living away from home. Hence, in my mind, all the Wah!-India/Bharata bollocks that we see all pervading even in BK-ism and even, individuals with as abstracted as Andrey. Who else remembers the posters of Krishna on top of a Pre-Partition India-shaped island floating in the middle of the sea?

My desire would have been for the Yagya to have been much more Gandhi-esque. I think Gandhi had a more sophisticated intellect than Kripalani and more develop political and social conscience. It the winning long term strategy rather than all the Jam Tomorrow promises of palaces and servants. You see where his target market's heads were. This Gandhi ethos seems to me to be much more prevalant in Virendra Dev Dixit, which I think is great.

The Brahma Kumari Sindhi World University sanskars, (e.g. dodgy money, status, golden thrones, property acquisition and comfortable travel) seems to have come to the fore much more than handspun loincloths, 108 patched dhotis approach and washing out your own latrine. Another group of people who are largely overlooked in any discussions the Sindhis, are the Haris. A name derived from the term Harijan, another Gandhian idea, formerly used to describe the Dalit.

These people are generally believed to be the original populations who were enslaved by various invaders. Would it be unfair to question, if the way the BKWSU exists at present, it is relatively keen to maintain a Dalit class within its own ranks? Those Indian BK at the end of the BK security wing's own riot sticks in Abu Road would be an interesting case study to ask, "why?".

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Post by john » 04 Jan 2007

I noticed Gandhi was adviced by his mother to keep away from "wine and woman". Which If I heard it right gives a peculiar slant on what was thought of woman in Gandhi's day.

It's a bit like the 'woman are the gateway to hell' thingy.

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Post by arjun » 04 Jan 2007

Sister Bansy wrote:Gandhi himself decided to wear as little as not to make the poorer ones feel that if he did not have any clothes, so as they should not feel downtrodden, and they should spin their own cotton to make their own clothes.
It is an irony that the handspun cloth (Khadi) which Gandhiji promoted as a cheap alternative to costly imported clothes has become unaffordable for an average Indian. It has become a clothing for the upper-end of the society, worn mainly by politicians (ill-famous for their corrupt image).

Once upon a time Khadi used to be a symbol of patriotism, but because of the level to which the khadi-clad politicians have stooped, Khadi is increasingly seen as a clothing for corrupt politicians and hence avoided by average Indians.

It is same as some (minority) of the members of the Confluence-Aged Brahmin family, adorned in speckless white robes, extracting money from gullible followers and wielding sticks at some fellow-Brahmins and thus bringing disgrace to the white robes, which have been described as a symbol of purity by Baba in the Murlis and Avyakt Vanis.
ex-l wrote:This Gandhi ethos seems to me to be much more prevalant in Veerendra Dev Dixit, which I think is great.
I agree that Baba Virendra Dev Dixit and most PBKs follow a Gandhian way of life, marked by austerity, but if you look at the sanskars of Gandhi and Nehru, the two characters correspond to the roles of Brahma (i.e. Mother or Dada Lekhraj) and Prajapita (i.e. Father or Baba Virendra Dev Dixit). Gandhi had a soft image while Nehru had a strict image. It is believed that it is this soft nature of Gandhiji which led to the partition of India. Otherwise, India would have been a much larger country.

Similarly, ShivBaba played a soft role of mother through Dada Lekhraj while He is playing the role of a strict Father through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit presently.
The Brahma Kumari Sindhi World University sanskars, (e.g. dodgy money, status, golden thrones, property acquisition and comfortable travel) seems to have come to the fore much more than handspun loincloths, 108 patched dhotis approach and washing out your own latrine.
From his childhood to almost the late nineties, Baba Virendra Dev Dixit lead an austere life. He spent his childhood in poverty. Even after his revelation in 1976 and even after the establishment of the AIVV in 1982/83, he could be seen wearing torn clothes and old slippers till the late nineties. Even now he wears simple cotton clothes - Dhoti and Kurta - for most part of the year. Only in the winters he can be seen in sweaters.

From the mention of latrines, I am reminded of the latrines at the training center of AIVV (housed in the ancestral house of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit). They are very small and without any modern facilities. I remember an anecdote heard from senior PBKs. When Mama/some other PBK asked Baba about constructing bigger and more comfortable Latrines and bathrooms, Baba asked her/him in reply that do you want to run your household in the latrine/bathroom. He meant to say that it is no use wasting precious Yagya money on such unimportant things.

And as I have already mentioned in some of my posts in other threads, the food offered to PBKs at the mini-Madhubans is very simple (two meals a day).

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Where is my badge?

Post by proy » 06 Jan 2007

Now here is a sad and a cautionary tale. When I first started to post on this site in April 2006 I was a BK. I wore white clothes had and a badge then. It was not a very big badge, I was only a "young" BK in the "Knowledge", but it said "Om Shanti on it and had a nice dangly bit with red rays coming out of a fake diamond in the middle. Now I have become an ex-BK. I got a nice email from the Admin of this site congratulating me on my new status as an ex-BK - but no badge. How awful. Where is my ex-BK badge? I know this site is run by volunteers but surely you can stretch to a badge, and it should really be bigger than my old BK badge as I have gone up in status, I am now a free and independent person.

Every day I wait for the post man to deliver my badge, which I am sure will be too big to fit through our letter box. Has there been some mistake or administrative error? Of course I dress all in black now but people just think I am an ageing punk rocker. Without a badge I have no standing in the world. Also, every time I visit the forum I get killer drishti from Mr. Green. So I should really get an ex-BK ring too. I have spent sleepless nights wondering what the logo on my new badge will be, and thinking will I get a silver or a gold ring and will it be one of the old and much sought after designs. This is a terrible state of affairs. What a sorry state to be in. :roll:

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Re: Where is my badge?

Post by joel » 06 Jan 2007

proy wrote: I have spent sleepless nights wondering what the logo on my new badge will be, and thinking will I get a silver or a gold ring and will it be one of the old and much sought after designs. This is a terrible state of affairs. What a sorry state to be in. :roll:
I don't have a new ring or badge to give you, but I can offer to re-dedicate any BK jewelery to the cause of ex-BK self-knowledge and independence ... for a small fee, of course.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 08 Jan 2007

bansy wrote:Good old days. Here is a nice archived movie of Mahatma Gandhi (much better than the Richard Attenborough one) : Gandhi video You'll realise how simple and intelligent he really was. Why he wore a loincloth and knew the people and the nation. How he sought for nuclear weapons disarmament. I often wonder if some of the ideas Brahma Baba (Dada Lekhraj) had were gotten from Mahatma Gandhi himself since Gandhi's life came just a few years before Dada Lekhraj's.
The emphasis on non-violence does not seem to hold for the BKs nowadays if they are beating up PBKs.

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Post by arjun » 15 Jan 2007

proy wrote:When I first started to post on this site in April 2006 I was a BK. I wore white clothes had and a badge then. It was not a very big badge, I was only a "young" BK in the "Knowledge", but it said "Om Shanti on it and had a nice dangly bit with red rays coming out of a fake diamond in the middle. Now I have become an ex-BK. I got a nice email from the Admin of this site congratulating me on my new status as an ex-BK - but no badge. How awful. Where is my ex-BK badge?
After all, the BK badge was supposed to be put inside the pocket and not to be worn on the white clothes :D :) :lol:

Here is a Murli point on this subject from one of the Murlis published by the BKs:
"Tumko yah Lakshmi-Narayan ka chitra dekhkar bahut khushi honi chaahiye. Isliye Baap nay kahaa hai yah Lakshmi-Narayan, Trimurti ka badge va medal jeib may daal doh. Ghadi-ghadi pocket say nikaal kar dekho. Oho! ham toh yah ban-ney vaaley hain. Bahut khushi hogi. Auron ko bhi dikhakar khush karo ki ham yah ban rahey hain. Dekhney say khushi hogi." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 02.12.06, pg 4)

“You must feel elated by looking at this picture of Lakshmi-Narayan. That is why Father has said that put this badge or medal of Lakshmi-Narayan, Trimurti in your pocket. Take it out of the pocket every moment and look at it. Oho! I am going to become this. You would feel very joyful. Make others also happy by showing it to others and telling them that we are becoming this. One would feel happy by looking at it.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 02.12.06, pg.4 published by BKs and narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba)

But it is another matter that the badge that ShivBaba wanted the BKs to put in the pocket (Lakshmi-Narayan & Trimurti) is available only to the BK teachers :roll: :|

PBKs have been told by ShivBaba to put the badge of living Lakshmi-Narayan/Trimurti in the pocket of intellect, instead of pinning the gross badge on the white clothes. :P :lol: :P

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by sparkal » 15 Jan 2007

I have a confession to make, I have a Lakshmi and Narayan badge, it was given to me by another brother (with clinical psychology issues) who felt he was not entitled to it and I was. I think Dadi may have even given him it, I reluctantly accepted it as he was adamant that I should have it.

I bow to it every day at traffic control, of course.

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Post by yudhishtira » 08 Mar 2007

I must say that the badges that proy speaks of are not up to much; the "fake" diamonds have fallen off both the ones I bought in India last year ... terrible workmanship... terrible ... :wink: I now have rays coming out of a fake gold dent!!

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Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Mar 2007

Yudhishtira wrote:I must say that the badges that proy speaks of are not up to much; the "fake" diamonds have fallen off both the ones I bought in India last year ... terrible workmanship... terrible ... :wink: I now have rays coming out of a fake gold dent!!
Its a sign ... the PBKs are right. Shiva has left the Yagya ...

In the old days you could not buy a badge, you had to earn them and they had "mystical value". Your sister in charge had to be "touched" that you were ready for one and many months of morning class and service. I liked the perspex disco God Father Shiva with reflective foil ones. We should start a gallery of badge scans.

No soccer rosettes for the chosen few back then. Just "ShivShatki" Lakshmi and Narayan ones.

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Post by yudhishtira » 08 Mar 2007

ex-l wrote:Its a sign ... in the old days you could not by them, you had to earn them.
Is that right? Even the basic Om Shanti badges? gosh!!

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badges and rings

Post by alladin » 08 Mar 2007

True, ex-l! My experience is that, whenever I found myself in front of a sister wearing saree and a bulky sought after Lakshmi and Narayan badge, my knees started shaking, I knew it meant trouble.

I never cared for or wore much any of those ugly rings, badges and rakhi bracelets, but I kept them, they are rusting away in drawers and beauty-cases. The gold ring was a big Maya/test. Who was going to get it next? Sure, one had to earn it.

I also heard many comments such as "No need to be jealous or perceive an unfair treatment; Dadi gave the ring to such and such a soul to keep her/he alive spiritually". Otherwise the soul would die or loose motivation and be less performing in sewa. It was a symbol of recognition and allowed even an insane person to have power over others. Appointed by SS. Green light to get away with anything.

I am trying to sound funny whilst I relate true facts and how I felt about them. In case I sound bitter and scornful, I apologize. Related topic: I still see double foreign sisters wearing sarees at selected occasions (whatever the criteria and purpose I am not sure and they would consider me impolite and arrogant if I asked WHY?!). Very impressive, although a bit out of fashon and disserviceable, these days. Part of the Carnival show. Nightmare for me.

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Re: badges and rings

Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Mar 2007

Yup, even the cheap Om Shanti pin badges. They were give out as if they were mystic power totem of aceptance. What do they have a supermarket now where you can buy one to go with your serviceable beige outfit and one to go with your ceremonial whites as you chose?
alladin wrote:I also heard many comments such as "No need to be jealous or perceive an unfair treatment; Dadi gave the ring to such and such a soul to keep her/he alive spiritually". Otherwise the soul would die or loose motivation and be less performing in sewa. It was a symbol of recognition and allowed even an insane person to have power over others. Appointed by SS. Green light to get away with anything.

Yes, like every one from the ex-pop stars to the King of Nepal ... allowing the former to give donations and just before the later went off and murdered his family. Can someone with copies of Purity correct my history here?
I am trying to sound funny whilst I relate true facts and how I felt about them. In case I sound bitter and scornful, I apologize. Related topic: I still see double foreign Sisters wearing sarees at selected occasions (whatever the criteria and purpose I am not sure and they would consider me impolite and arrogant if I asked WHY?!). Very impressive, although a bit out of fashon and disserviceable, these days. Part of the Carnival show.

Your humour shines through without any bitterness. Oooh, can you take us behind the scenes at the Brahmakumari fashion shows then?
  • The Ceremonial "Dressing of the Sari"
This probably does deserve another topic of its own.

When is a sister taken aside and taught how to put on a sari and by whom? When is the formal command given by the Shiv Shakti commanders, "saris on and to the front!" How much pressure is/was there put on individuals to conform? I bet the girlie and Bhakti sisters have lots of fun dressing up and standing in front of mirrors together. You are right, but it is more like being in Mum's Army than a circus; full-dress unform, mess wear, serviceable fieldwear, undercover disguises (as head teachers, journalists, consultants and best selling authors) and "mufti" for going to lokik work in. All coded and unspoken.
  • And do they give special instructions and suppliers for those Maya-proof big knickers?
Boy, this will really test the stage of any boy BKs that wander this way ... did Lekhraj Kirpalani ever do any special test of the Yagya like making them stand naked and check their stage for body-consciousness? Now there is a shocking thought ... but sure to kill off any existent Maya. Probably a good visualization exercise leading to detachment from body-attraction. And you are right. Some sisters just did not carry it off and ended up looking like a bag of laundry in theirs.

Were you around when the transition from dishcloth cotton to shiney polyester, career brahmin, "power saris" started ... and remember who went for which?

A semiotic sociologist's field day of "meanings" ...

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