Hunt for Fresh Meat - Inner Space shopfronts

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 10 Jan 2007

John wrote:More proof that senior Sisters shouldn't be taken seriously, would it be fair to say they know next to nothing?
Or that they are just "acting out", to quote a psychological term, being gurus.
as an example I wrote:(I am very poor ... times are hard ... I was thinking of opening a bar and may be a brothel because it is an sure way to make money. The girls are happy to work there, the men are happy to come and pay ...)

" Sister, If I give a % to Baba's box, does that clear matters?"

"Ah, brother-ji, just Remember Baba and stick the magazines on the top shelf. See the soul, be firm, and give the models good wishes. Baba says Bharat has become a Brothel and everyone is impure. The box is over in the corner ... "
I mean, how and where is the line drawn? What are the rationales, processes and precedents for such decisions? Its strange if you think that some BKs were told not to be, say, musicians or read novels but yet it is OK to profit from the pornography industry!?!

Porn and abuse going hand in hand. If you support one, you are encouraging the other.

Again, I am not against the individual BK facing these difficult contradictions and life issues. I am question the organization and its unaccountable leadership that is making all this stuff up as it goes along and scattering individuals' lives about like nine pins.

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Post by bansy » 10 Jan 2007

This thread may be going in a spiral, just like somewhere in this website that we had issues about "karma" or what to do in certain situations (the "cow and butchers" story, etc).

Back then, and now applying to the past few posts here I am tempted to ask for example what of an employee who works in the tobacco industry. It is a huge business worldwide. It is a living for many. You can be an accountant in almost any company to choose from, but why choose this tobacco company. Other than you've now promoted to be the Financial Director making pools of dollars. Are you going to suffer such karma for being part of an organisation that kills people (allegedly).

But I don't want to go to debating such issues here. My main concern is that in general we are sometimes not sure who to ask if our actions are wrong or right. As BapDada has an exclusive schedule and exclusive company, who can a BK ask if their choice of a lokik job is good for them. A Dadi ? A Senior ? Or your wife or husband or one of your three starving kids, or your mother who you are looking after suffering from asthma and cancer? You need this job, surely. Mind you, it could be said you're attached to those latter relationships, but who understands that degree of attachment. So who do you ask when confronted with these, as ex-l puts it, "these difficult contradictions and life issues" in this Kaliyuga world.
When I was talking to Jayanti I asked her about it and she said that as it was his business and related to the 'success' of that business he had been given permission to continue to sell porn.
I thought in the Murlis, BKs are allowed to caution each other. BKs are all spirtually connected to each other, so it means everyone wearing a red-badge is a pornographer :shock: Some BKs wear bigger badges it seems.

I will leave it here. The PBKs may have their answer or even the Vishnu Partiites or other groups. In the end, who do will have the Faith and Truth with. Meanwhile, as we tread our paths, we should have mercy for those who may be in such positions undesirable as the butcher or newsagent.

(PS : the tobacco example recall the movie "The Insider")

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Post by sparkal » 10 Jan 2007

Mitra wrote::( Anybody in LONDON please tell this Brother to change his business [:!: It will be Godly service for you].
Umm, don't you mean, tell him to change his underwear?

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john
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Post by john » 10 Jan 2007

I think it's a no brainer and Jayanti was irresponsible in her answer.

In Murli as we all know it says lust is the worst vice. OK even if anyone doesn't believe that then fine, but at least Jayanti should if she takes Murli to be THE word of God. Really would it have hurt his business that much to remove the porn?

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Post by mr green » 10 Jan 2007

Remember in the Murli it says it's alright for a soldier to shoot someone as long as you remember Baba when you pull the trigger, :lol:

I also knew of people running shops and selling tobacco/alcohol, these people gave regular donations direct to DJ ... no problem.

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Post by john » 10 Jan 2007

Mr Green wrote:remember in the Murli it says it's alright for a soldier to shoot someone as long as you remember Baba when you pull the trigger, :lol:
Nope. I don't suppose you have the Murli quote to hand?

All I remember is a reference to eating food in the army and that should be done in Baba's rememberance.

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Post by arjun » 11 Jan 2007

John wrote:Nope. I don't suppose you have the Murli quote to hand?
I agree. And wish to add that Baba has said that if a soldier shoots at someone (enemy) on the orders of his superiors then he would not accrue any sin on account of it. But I do not have the Murli point readily available.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Jan 2007

arjun wrote:And wish to add that Baba has said that if a soldier shoots at someone (enemy) on the orders of his superiors then he would not accrue any sin on account of it.
From a karmic/spiritual point of view, I am not sure about this at all.

If we use that hoary old example, this would that individual Nazis that were murdering or torturing Jews were not responsible for their own actions just because they were "following orders"?
  • Do we have no personal responsibility to say "no" if we are instructed to do something unethical?
The BKs have already gotten themselves in hot water for saying that the Jews caused their own suffering by bad karma in the past.

Now, "un-politically correct" as that sounds, if you believe in simple Laws of Karma, you have to agree with that statement. However taking to the next level of no responsibility if acting under instructions raises much deeper questions ... what is the karma for putting one's self in a subordinate position to an evil tyrant?

• Of course, personally, I think that no one in the BK world has successfully explained how "karmic laws" works, "where" karmic records are kept and how the mechanism works.

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Post by john » 11 Jan 2007

what is the karma for putting one's self in a subordinate position to an evil tyrant?

• Of course, personally, I think that no one in the BK world has successfully explained how "karmic laws" works, "where" karmic records are kept and how the mechanism works.
I can see the point of being in the army because, in effect you are there to defend the nation against aggressors, but it does indeed become grey, blurred and muddy when you take into account examples like ex-l has pointed out.
I believe it is said anything done in soul consciousness and rememberance of Shiva doesn't accrue negative karma, yet even with that understanding you still have
1. What kind of rememberance would you need to be having to not accrue negative karma?
2. What are the limits, can any action be performed in a stage of accurate rememberance and it not accrue negative karma, indeed would it add positive karma!?!

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Post by abrahma kumar » 11 Jan 2007

The internet is a strange thing: I would like to respond to this post: When I was talking to Jayanti I asked her about it and she said that as it was his business and related to the 'success' of that business he had been given permission to continue to sell porn.

I say strange because having read those words I feel a tinge of some loss as if the content has already crystallised in my intellect as 'truth' when in fact nothing of the sort may have happened! Did it?

But taking it as a hypothetical situation I would be more confused than ever as it would go against everything I have struggled to be over all these years. God please help because You know that my finding Your BKWSU was the culmination of a heart-felt desire of mine to discover a way to manifest the 'model' human character. A character in your image so to speak. In spite of my so-called negative karmas God there had been the feeling all of my life that it was possible to actualise this quest. And your BKWSU teachings led me to believe that although I did not know it, there was a indeed a basis to this positive self-vision (I claim no credit for this, can we call it faith in myself?) because your teachings revealed that the most elevated status was a point from which we souls had fallen and consequently our life experiences through body consciousness had become 'destructive'. And my life was the epitome of that degradation, God.

But if those Maryadas and everyting else has been made up for some human convenience then tell me God, what is it all about? Yes God, I came to You knowing that I was the possessor of positive and negative personality traits. I had been a rebel - and still am - but I cherished the other part within me. God I told no-one of this as I came to your 7-day course and I embarked upon the journey. No-one but YOU and me are the knower of all my secrets and many times the burden has been too much for me. But I keep faith that that even if I am the last BK so be it, one day i would understand and conquer all of that negativity.

God, you said many times in the Murli that if you want to see the greatest fools just come 'here' - which I took it to mean that sitting in the gathering there are those who in spite of the receiving the Highest instruction - YOUR Shrimat - they would not be able to or just did not give a damn about transformation. Why, because their karmas where such. But i never projected Your words upon another. Why? My very own life reflected it all - all the joy and all the pain as Frankie Beverly sang. Accurate context may be missing from the thread but those things attributed to the Murli I have heard.

In case you find the tone of this post negative then, what can I say ... I have shared from the heart about my own personal journey with God's BKWSU. Sometimes I wonder if the BKWSU would slap an injuction on us publishing our personal stories for fear that it will defame the name of the Godly clan! When in fact if you look below the surface you have to ask the question whether there is a web of human ordinariness present!

And just in case any BK comes across this post and attempts to 'spout' the usual cliche responses then please note that I am immune to that - I have done it myself (spouted the cliches i mean)! As much as i have told a sad-ish story here in this post please do not be mistaken into thinking that I need more Murli points or that I am a 'poor disheartened soul'. I LOVE the Murli and I UNDERSTAND the Murli and that which I do not understan right now I do not fight against because I know that in good time I will come to understand.

Somebody mentioned being totally against running a shop etc etc ... but can I ask, if this is a real life situation do you know the circumstances of that soul? Do you know the entire Karmic accounts of that soul? And though it may be Godly service to caution against having that business what an earth would possess me to believe that the soul does not already know that? And if the soul knows all of that and yet still engages itself in that business at this point in the drama then is it not the soul's part. When/if it is time for the part to change nothing you nor i nor the Seniors can do anything about it (that is my understanding). Maybe this is the BKWSU situation right now: They need 'preachers' to rant against the ungodly. I refuse that role! However if the Seniors too refuse that role than they should tell us all that the Yagya has entered a 'revisonist' period.

Could one form of mercy be to see that situation and accept that? Since it is not me or you running the shop then everything is alright, is not it? if this is true and the soul is still open to hearing God's word what more do we want of the soul? To show-off our 'perfection'? To shout loudly so that the whole world knows that we are spotless? Maybe that is the knot in which the BKWSU is now finding itself tied. How to move boldly forward in this kaliyuga world and yet hold on to the Godly principles. How to mix with the mikes and yet not be tarred with the tainted brush that they (the mikes) decorate themselves with! But then again all is accurate according to drama, is not it? or is it?

If that is the case then I welcome them to the club! Maybe i should create my very own consultancy and offer guidance - FOR A FEE OF COURSE - on how to do it? No Maryadas, No Godly principles, No prohibitions. Just glorification of the name through association with the high and mighty etc etc. Meanwhile back in the Murli class ...

If this whole Godly BKWSU lark is true at all, then amongst everything else we learn is that God is a merciful God. If the Seniors believe everything they are teaching us then they must be having lots of Yoga for that soul. So there is benefit in everything is not it. I used to wonder if that sentiment only applied so long as Shrimat is being followed but perhaps not ... there is benefit in everything.

I really wish we could have conversation with the Seniors on these topics instead of the corporate BK speak we hear day after day after day in classes - one consequence of which it seems to me is that God is becoming obscured.

What is of crucial importance to me right now is to understand whether the BKWSU or any other organisation represents TRUTH about God! I have reached the point where i do not want to suspend belief in science, or common sense, or established historical fact or geography. I do not want to become locked into a system that can not be verified independently - and then be told that i can not talk about that publicly or be told that it is Maya. I don't want any stories of great men and women in the Yagya so that I start to glorify them or have them glorified to me! I don't want to be told just have faith.

What did God teach? Does God really exist? What did human's create in the Yagya? Where will the human's lead us if we follow them? Are some BK's profiting from Godly knowledge which we are told is agianst Godly principles? Is the Yagya a money making venture for the clever? Am i recruiter for a dubious organisation?


Mercy.

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Post by john » 11 Jan 2007

I really wish we could have conversation with the Seniors on these topics instead of the corporate BK speak we hear day after day after day in classes. My in-box is clogged with the stuff and one consequence of this it seems to me is that God is becoming obscure.

Abrahma I think you have hit a good point hear 'God is becoming obscure', I see it too, Shiva is being left by the wayside. How many times is ShivBaba mentioned in Avyakt Vanis? I cannot remember one, how many times in Dadi classes?

Are Dadis selling out to appeal to the masses?

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Post by sparkal » 11 Jan 2007

Don't let me stop you, but as long as the shop does not represent the organisation, BKs can do any job they like. Perhaps it is the fact that it is his business (?) that raises :?:.

Excuse me sir, is that a parrot in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me? :?

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Post by john » 11 Jan 2007

sparkal wrote:Don't let me stop you, but, as long as the shop does not represent the organisation, BKs can do any job they like.
Are you sure about the 'any' job?

Pimp?

Madame of a brothel?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Jan 2007

John wrote:Madame of a brothel?
... as long as everyone stops for traffic control ...

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Post by mr green » 11 Jan 2007

Hey, prostitutes aren't neccesarily bad people ...

On the subject of karma, it makes no sense if you look closely at it ... this is why Dadi discourages questions unless she has been given them before hand.

The whole karmic account system just doesn't add up, how can it be possible to settle a karmic account without creating another? ... An action is an action after all and according to the BKs every action creates an effect or account.

Please don't get into the quagmire of thinking about it, I just wanted to state that it makes no sense to me ... even other peoples version of it (non-bk) don't add up.

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