What! ... No God?

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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fluffy bunny
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What! ... No God?

Post by fluffy bunny » 17 Mar 2007

I just wanted to start a thread to note every time a BK, the Brahmakumaris, or the BKWSU have an event that does not present or mention God Shiva ... except perhaps in an vague, abstracted or hidden fashion. But not actually named up front.

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No God

Post by proy » 18 Mar 2007

God (Shiva or other) is never mentioned in any Self Management Leadership course, unless one of the participants brings it into the discussion.

I have been to the course myself, got the certificate, got the notes. Neither the notes nor the teachers ever mention God. As all these events follow the same curriculum laid down by Brian Bacon, that is a very large number of BKWSU events to start you off, ex-l.

People who are qualified to teach the course are only allowed to teach it in BK centres or, in exceptional cases, in places approved specifically by the BKs. There is also a further part of the course, which I have not done. If anyone else has done it then they may be able to say if it mentions God. I doubt it.

My experience was that the BK centres are very keen on running courses and one day events that do not mention God. Two more events that I can remember attending were Stress Management and Self Esteem, both presented by BKs in BK centres, neither mentioned God or Shiva at all. The attitude that I picked up was that the BKs running or hosting the course at their centres were actually very proud of being able to run courses that never mention God or Shiva.

There was an atmosphere of competitiveness, even, in that respect.

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Re: No God

Post by fluffy bunny » 18 Mar 2007

proy wrote:I have been to the course myself, got the certificate, got the notes. Neither the notes nor the teachers ever mention God. As all these events follow the same curriculum laid down by Brian Bacon, that is a very large number of BKWSU events to start you off.
And can we be clear here ... Brian Bacon is not channelling God Shiva, is he? Nor is he the latest Chariot? How is his darna?

Do the Brahmakumaris SPECIFICALLY state in the Self Management Leadership training, "do not mention God Shiva" etc? Or it just understood/minimised to such an extent these days? Who gets to decide what an "authorized" venue is? The SS, Brain B, or local centers-in-charge?

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Re: No God

Post by proy » 18 Mar 2007

ex-l wrote:Do the Brahmakumaris SPECIFICALLY state in the Self Management Leadership training, "do not mention God Shiva" etc? Or it just understood/minimised to such an extent these days?
You would have to do the second part of the course, for teachers, to know this for sure. That was what came over from the teachers, but I did not do the second part myself.
Who gets to decide what an "authorized" venue is? The SS, Brain B, or local centers-in-charge?
I never found this out as I never asked. I had no interest in teaching the course.

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mentioning God is out of fashion and disserviceable

Post by alladin » 08 Aug 2007

It seems to me that, since a while, teachers and speakers who mention God either "too early" or ever, are considered a bit "second class" dummies, dangerous; they upset the plans, they haven't understood that "the times, they are a-changin' ", they are not multi-purpose, multi-function and multi-façades!

You have to be versatile and sell your soul to the devil, these days, if you want to get a job in the sect!! Hey, if you play the game well, you can gain name, fame and even get rich!! :D :shock:

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Post by yudhishtira » 08 Aug 2007

were Stress Management and Self Esteem, both presented by BKs in BK centres,

The original Self Esteem course, which I attended in Madhuban, always finished off by introducing God, His qualities and His relationship with souls. It was a 2 full day course.

The watered down version later introduced in London written by a London sister who later left the body, is the one they now trot out in centres. The other one was too empowering and scared the bejesus out of the establishment ...

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Post by mr green » 08 Aug 2007

yudhishtira wrote:The original Self Esteem course, which I attended in Madhuban, always finished off by introducing God, His qualities and His relationship with souls. It was a 2 full day course. The watered down version later introduced in London written by a London Sister who later left the body, is the one they now trot out in centres. The other one was too empowering and scared the bejesus out of the establishment ...
It was also mainly cribed from outside sources. God it was awful, what an ordeal ... I think they actually wanted to induce some sort of emotional breakdown in the participants.

The new (about 5 years old) positive thinking course is also heavily cribed from outside sources and only hints at a higher energy.

The anger management course was also fairly recently re-written.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Aug 2007

mr green wrote:I think they actually wanted to induce some sort of emotional breakdown in the participants.

Is that the same emotional breakdown folks have a later point, the one after they leave or an entirely new one? I heard even Brian Bhai succumbed to such pressures and had to recover at Global Retreat.

Of course, I suppose we could re-market it as a rebirthing pain ... that that too has already been done.

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Post by yudhishtira » 14 Aug 2007

Mr Green, I wonder if we are talking about the same course. The one I am speaking of was not taken from outside sources and I know this for a fact. Of course, nothing is perfect, but when I helped doing these courses in my own country, many people , including BKs , found it very empowering. Some souls did become emotional, but only in a releasing sense and it didnt dominate the proceedings. I hear they stopped it in the UK as it was too challenging; especially the concept of getting your own intuitive answers, not relying on Seniors. Obviously it does challenge your ego big time, so some souls didnt like it.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 14 Aug 2007

yudhishtira wrote:I find it ironic that you are saying this when the Seniors you most have problems with are the ones that started to block the use of this course as souls were getting too empowered and starting to ask too many questions through it.
Can you give any examples?

I have not done the course so I cant comment. But I'd be amused to think that it actually worked and so therefore was pulled or held back. From what I have read of Brian work, lectures etc, it seems to be fairly par for the corporate course and, yes, I did see areas where I felt it was derivative, pulled together from a number of sources.

I found the whole borrowing from and incorporating Gyan, selling on, signing licensing deals to license it back to the the Yagya, cherrypicking BKs for business and creaming off any corporate clients that came along off the back of it unpalatable.

Did I miss any element out?

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SML, Self Esteem & all that jazzed up Gyan

Post by abrahma kumar » 14 Aug 2007

While we wait for Yude to respond I just remembered that somewhere around the place i have the full audio cassete recording of the SML course; and the book. So maybe one day i take another listen/read and see of thre is anything interesting to post.

What i do remember about the SML presentation is the lengthy preamble which basically relates the story of the birth of the SML Course (I wonder if anyone here has the recording or heard that story). Yes folks, there was a Shiv Baba's miracle in that. Amongst other things the introduction to the lecture series relates how Baba came up trumps just as the BKs were about to be tossed out of the business that they had been invited to. The purpose of said visit was to impart some teachings to the employees about how the BKWSU organisation manages to operate/ co-operate/ inter-relate on so many levels without a single sign of discord or organisational failure.

The reason why they were nearly thrown out was because the company's employees had their own worshipful practices, guru etc, so they wondered if their boss had taken leave of his senses by inviting the white-clad God women to lecture them on ... you can guess cant you. Anyway as i said Baba came to the rescue and from that humble, seemingly inauspicious beginning we today have:
Self Management Leadership (2 DAY COURSE)

Are you managing your life
or are other people, situations & events
doing it for you?

A TWO day seminar
BOOKING ESSENTIAL
How do you cope when everything you planned to happen doesn’t?
How do you plan for the future when everything around you is uncertain?
How do you rate your abilities at managing yourself and leading others during chaotic times?

International management consultants originally developed SML to assist those leading others through turbulent times.
The programe has been licensed to the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University to facilitate individuals to develop their internal leadership skills through understanding of their purpose, vision and values. It provides the framework to discover these and to then fully support them.

SML provides a framework for personal life planning and re-engineering. It empowers the individual to realign with the changing environment and thereby develop greater self esteem and self control in terms of new attitudes, style and behavior. It provides the ‘tools’ to do this with relevant mental training and change management skills.

AIMS OF SML
To develop a clear focus for the next stage in your life and career

To take responsibility for your own life and to stop blaming others or circumstances

To take more personal responsibility for your ‘state of mind’ and emotions

To learn how to improve the overall quality of life.

To become a better leader with a clear purpose and strong values
Involves insightful lecture sessions, followed by personal reflection and small group work.

Results in a clear understanding of ones purpose, values and personal vision…and an action plan to live by these principles in the future

Provides insight in how to find new directions and strategies to deal with complex life and work situations.

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