Saying NO to Seniors

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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paulkershaw
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Saying NO to Seniors

Post by paulkershaw » 04 Apr 2007

I hope that this post is adding something new to the forum. I cannot find anything else like it in the forum. But I thought it may be benefical for others to read about how some of us had experiences of saying NO to things we were asked/ordered/told to do. I'd suggest to talk about situations where we had to stand up for ourselves. I'll go first but hope that by many others sharing it may prove that one can survive in the bk system if you stand tall and put a senior 'into' place. With of course the understanding of repurcussions on a subtle level.

One year when I went to Madhuban I was virtually followed day and night by a BK sister (who incidentally taught me much of the 7 day course...) and we sat after supper in secluded places talking privately (about her need for a man/sex/acceptance in her life!) much to the chagrin of another sister, also from the same centre, who then supposedly reported me to someone 'higher up' and then this filtered back down to the centre in charge (center-in-charge). Like it was even my fault but what can be done about perceptions.

Both I and the sister were then called into a private meeting by the center-in-charge and 'sweetly' informed about how we'd upset the whole Madhuban vibration and we were breaking Maryadas etc etc. I'll leave it to the imagination for the rest of the story.

My partner in crime sister was of course seriously angry but chose to remain silent and looked at the ground the whole time but I'd had enough and told the center-in-charge that she, the Seniors and whoever else needed to mind their own business and stay out of what doesn't concern them and that the person with the problem should have the courage to speak up about HER problem instead of hiding behind someone else. I'd 'discovered' that the centre sister who'd reported 'me' was actually jealous of our friendship and, of course, wanted to ruin it by using bk principles to do so. So I had to question who and where those principles came from too.

Ho Hum indeed, I chose not to keep quiet and had no need to try and negotiate a settlement and be obedient to something I did not consider wrong. The woman had a problem after all. But what's wrong is wrong and I wasn't taking it anymore. Things improved a little after that but before long, well let's say that my rising star was not appreciated by the jealous one ... just shows you cannot change people and what lies beneath must come out in the end and be dealt with.

I hope that by publishing this incident others may see their way to learning how to say No when need be.

L8R.. XX P

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john
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Re: Saying NO to Seniors

Post by john » 04 Apr 2007

paulkershaw wrote:I'd 'discovered' that the centre Sister who'd reported 'me' was actually jealous of our friendship and of course wanted to ruin it by using BK principles to do so - so I had to question who and where those principles came from too.
Yes, using BK principles to someone's own twisted ends, nasty yet very subtle game that. One reason for all BKs to study Murli thoroughly for when you get the sweet 'Baba says' from a BK, you'll at least know whether it is accurate and how to counter it if it is not.

Great thread, I wish I had had the nouse to stand up to one or two SS BKs in my early days but, still being wet behind the ears and all, I just stood there dazed and confused like a wet lettuce.

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yes and no

Post by alladin » 11 Apr 2007

Hi, yes, a great topic!

I said a big NO to DJ when I was fairly new in Gyan and this of course "ruined my career in service", and fixed a place for me in the B class BK. I cared less and less as years went by. I cannot tell you the whole story. It's confidential. But all my dissident BK friends supported me and clapped hands. They are the one's who count, and I had my best ever experience in Madhuban.

Like someone said, it felt as if Baba was standing by me and protecting me from the threatening attitude the SS in question was having towards me. Sweet Baba! Other times, if I disagreed, I did so more diplomatically just did my thing without arguing. Other times I obeyed. Guess depends on our discrimination power, to evaluate whether an instruction can be beneficial or not. And also if you trust the senior it's coming from.

Sometimes they just want to push you around and show superiority. Paulkerskaw post reminded me of that famous Zen story about the 2 celibate monks walking and one of them helps a maid cross a river lifting her up in his arms. After miles, the other monk brings up the subject, thereby proving that he is the one who's still carrying the girl in his mind's arms.

Really, BKs seem like repressed and sexually perverted people, really body-conscious bad vision they have. They see evil everywhere, try to correct others using and twisting srimat. No wonder, with all this repression, they end up having criminal dreams they would have never expected!

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Re: yes and no

Post by joel » 11 Apr 2007

alladin wrote:No wonder, with all this repression, they end up having criminal dreams they would have never expected!
I am reacting to your use of the term 'criminal dreams.'

I believe that dreams with violent or sexually charged content do not ncecessarily tell us we are criminal. Further, not everyone who is repressed and manipulating, etc. suffers painful dreams. To have dreams can be a blessing if we can learn to use them, even such people to whom Alladin says 'no' or won't eat their food, if they are open.

I would never judge a person by their dreams, including myself. The language of dreams comes from the inner, uncensored and deepest layers of the self. Can be helpful if we learn to take them as such. Ones dreams do not belong to any religion.

For me, my ongoing work with myself through dreams has helped me bring healing to deep soul-wounds that BK disciplines and sincere attempts to commune with God did not seem to touch.

Whether dreams or art or theatre or some other avenue, I think soul-healing requires some kind of channel for our deepest inner life to express our felt truths. I think these truths and their expression are most important. I'd much rather listen to them than to any philosophy.

Regards,

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Post by paulkershaw » 11 Apr 2007

Alladin wrote:Sometimes they just want to push you around and show superiority. Paulkerskaw post reminded me of that famous Zen story about the 2 celibate monks walking and one of them helps a maid cross a river lifting her up in his arms. After miles, the other monk brings up the subject, thereby proving that he is the one who's still carrying the girl in his mind's arms.
Thanks for this, I've read that story too and it too stuck with me. Its truly surprised me that since belonging to this forum how past events have resurfaced and its become obvious to me that I am still holding onto some past unfinished processes and I now need to work deeper on certain issues within. It must be the right time huh?

Just this morning, I've resolved to make more time for myself, for more 'healing', meditation and proper nutrition so that I can work through some of the anger and judgements I feel coming up within. This doesn't mean I am not available ... !

Thanx to everyone on this forum for helping me realise this, I look forward to sharing the journey ahead and wish all and one a wonderful day.

With love P
~~~~~~~~~~~

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translating the meaning+feeling, not just litterally

Post by alladin » 11 Apr 2007

True, Joel, about dreams. I dream a lot, beautifully and usually get alot of inspiration from my night adventures! Of course I used the term " criminal" ironically. It sounds so bad when it comes out in the Murli. :cry:

By the way, I wonder if that's the accurate translation from an Hindi world. Some terms maybe sound OK in the original language and once translated, they evoke nightmares (i.e. renounciation, surrender, dying alive...) due to the different cultural background and the way religions have used them.

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Re: translating the meaning+feeling, not just litterally

Post by joel » 11 Apr 2007

alladin wrote:True, Joel, about dreams. I dream a lot, beautifully and usually get alot of inspiration from my night adventures! Of course I used the term " criminal" ironically. It sounds so bad when it comes out in the Murli. :cry: By the way, I wonder if that's the accurate translation from an Hindi world. Some terms maybe sound OK in the original language and once translated, they evoke nightmares (i.e. renounciation, surrender, dying alive...) due to the different cultural background and the way religions have used them.
I believe the language sounds extreme as written, even in Hindi, although given the more habitually dramatic use of that language, somewhat less inflammatory than the translation. Spoken in Brahma Baba's voice, I think those terms were acceptable, given the underlying unconditional love for his listeners that most of those in his audience could sense in the tone of his voice.

In one center I attended, we laughed at those extreme statements, since they were clearly so over the top, while acknowledging the points he was making.

I still find the Sakar Murli language humorous and charming, tho I no longer read them regularly nor look to them for guidance.

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Post by bansy » 11 Apr 2007

When the Roman emperor Ceasar riding his Chariot through the streets whispered to his private consul, "Just look at this. Can you hear the crowds, my subjects, they all cheer and hail for me. They love me". To which the brave consul replied "They cheer for you ... because they fear you".

(My own words, something to that effect, taken while flipping through a novel at a library a few weeks back).

Do BKs LOVE their Dadis and Seniors ? Or do they FEAR them ? I cannot recall whether it is in the main bulk of the Murli/Vanis that say to love the Dadis or it is included as part of the extra Essence/Dharna/Slogan section.

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Post by mr green » 11 Apr 2007

It is more a dependance in my opinion, Bansy. Not love because love can only ever be 2 way. Maybe a lot of sisters have a crush on DJ or JB that I can believe.

I've seen sisters, especially, push themselves forward at the cost of friends to be noticed by the Seniors. The Seniors love this as it is a nice power trip for them and any they feel trying to get attention will be systematically shunned (remember Dadi turning away from you whilst giving toli?) There is no love existing in such relationships, only insecurites ... like a crush.

I said no to Dadi janki and Dadi Kumarka, I've even refused toli from Dadi Janki!!! You should have seen her face :lol: :lol: I lined up just to refuse it :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post by joel » 11 Apr 2007

Mr Green wrote:I said no to Dadi janki and Dadi Kumarka, I've even refused toli from Dadi Janki!!! you should have seen her face. I lined up just to refuse it.
That is more than naughty. That is :evil: :lol: :evil:

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Post by arjun » 12 Apr 2007

I said no to Dadi janki and Dadi Kumarka, I've even refused toli from Dadi Janki!!! You should have seen her face I lined up just to refuse it
So, why did you line up after all? Was it to give your powerful drishti to them or to recieve theirs? :D :lol: :D

I have a photograph of myself receiving drishti from Dadi Kumarka. Side view 8). In those days receiving a glimpse from Dadis was considered to be a big fortune.

Now refusal to receive drishti from the BKs/Seniors is a sign of being a PBK :P.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by mr green » 12 Apr 2007

arjun wrote:Now refusal to receive drishti from the BKs/Seniors is a sign of being a PBK.
:lol: :lol: :lol:. At the time I thought I was her equal in the eyes of God. So I thought I wanted nothing from her, so it should be an exchange of drishti :lol:.

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