The Power of Blogs

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proy
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The Power of Blogs

Post by proy » 20 Jan 2007

The Power of Blogs

I just watched a TV programme on BBC4 called "Blog Wars". It showed how powerful blogs are now. They are affecting political election results in the USA. The internet is a serious force to be reckoned with, and if bloggers in the US can stop a pro-war candidate from being elected then we can easily reform the bad practices within the BKWSU.

I cannot repeat too many times that, as a recently left ex-BK, I know for sure that a large number of people are reading this site and are being influenced by it. If you have been out of the BKs for some time, or if you are new or not much involved, you may not realise this fact. There are so many people reading our posts who never show up on the forum themselves but are reading it daily. Every questioning BK I have spoken to already knows about this site and is being helped by our discussions.

Personally, I think it is a big revelation to many that there is any dissent among the BKs at all. Many people have never heard about the PBKs and the 1976 destruction fiasco, or about the falsifying of the Murlis (especially the "virgin Chariot" lie).

I say we are all helping, whatever angle we come from. The PBKs walk their talk by living a good and simple life, and they add many good questions to the discussions. The BKs get to discuss Gyan in a way that is never allowed in the centres. We ex-BKs get to highlight the abuses and the inconsistencies. More power to our work of bringing light into this murky and sleazy area of the world. I am not wanting to destroy the BKs any more than I want the world markets to collapse. I just want to spread the truth that these things are not what they pretend to be. Many BKs lie about being celibate and "pukka", there are many financial swindles and lies going on. BKs get away with abuse, sexual or other abuses. They can not keep on hiding their heads in the sand. I know some progress has been made with the Seniors - there will be more on the way. Be encouraged, be energised, keep on with the good work.

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Post by arjun » 20 Jan 2007

if bloggers in the US can stop a pro-war candidate from being elected then we can easily reform the bad practices within the BKWSU.
Your idea is noble indeed. And this site might have really brought about a subtle change in the thinking of double-foreigner BKs, but I don't think the BK Administration is as much alarmed about the discussions going on in this site as we may be thinking because a vast majority of the BKs and even the members of public who attend their programmes (especially in India) do not have access to internet or know about this site. So their show continues. It is only when the issues being discussed here are highlighted in the print and electronic media that the BK Administration would sit up and think. The electronic media especially is such a mode of communication that the message is conveyed even to the illiterate people effectively.

But it must be kept in mind that while discussing any issue related to BKs, the good work being done by them should not be sidelined completely. Although we PBKs are raising many issues related to the interpretation and implementation of Murlis by BKs, we believe that ultimately it would be the united efforts of BKs and PBKs (and ex-BKs) that would bring about the world transformation that ShivBaba aims to usher in.

I don't know how far the Ex-BKs would agree with me.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by abrahma kumar » 22 Jan 2007

Dear Arjun, Whilst making a post about the BKWSU on another topic on this site the thought crossed my mind that the ex-BK's and PBK's would be naive in thinking that they are immune to the same sort of emerging 'public interest'. One would hope that any organisation with ethos such as professed by these institutions would be able to 'handle' it without recourse to descrediting sources or slinging mud at the instruments playing out their role in this regard. We'll see ...

It goes without saying that none of us would like unfair comments to be made in the public domain about these organisation because they each do a lot of well-intentioned service however as the proverb says: When thy neighbours house burn down be careful of thine own.

Again I'd like to stress my wish that NO negatinve inference ought to be taken from the image contained in this post as it is just a proverb that i feel is apt to the discussion.
Om Shanti

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Post by arjun » 22 Jan 2007

Abrahmakumar wrote:Dear Arjun, Whilst making a post about the BKWSU on another topic on this site the thought crossed my mind that the ex-BK's and PBK's would be naive in thinking that they are immune to the same sort of emerging 'public interest'.
Dear Abrahmakumar,
I completely agree with you. PBKs would also be subjected to the same or even more dissection to which BKs are being subjected now. PBKs are also susceptible to the same degradation that the BKs have undergone.

But the basic difference between both the groups is that PBKs have someone to turn to in case they have any complaint or issue to raise. But the same system does not exist among the BKs even though it is a registered organization.

In spite of the issue of making the Murlis freely available, the BKs are not ready to address the issue.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Reality check

Post by proy » 22 Jan 2007

Dear Arjun
arjun wrote:Your idea is noble indeed ... a vast majority of the BKs and even the members of public who attend their programmes (especially in India) do not have
access to internet or know about this site ... The electronic media especially is such a mode of communication that the message is conveyed even to the illiterate people effectively.
Thank you for this information, which brings me to see the situation in a more realistic way, from a worldwide viewpoint. I so often see things only from the perspective of the western BKs or even just the BKs in the UK. I do think the two countries, England and India, have a very strong karmic link. To our shame, the British colonised and tried to Christianise India, but in the process the UK got a big injection of spirituality from India. All those colonisers and soldiers came home and brought a strong flavour of Indian spirituality with them, and this scent pervades our culture to this day.

I wonder if you know how little spirituality there is in the west? Especially in the UK? I would have to go a long way to find a conversation that even approaches the level of spiritual awakening that I can find on this forum. Most of the people in the UK are staunch materialists and have no interest at all in matters of philosophy, metaphysics, religion or spirituality. Even the "New Age" people tend to be on the periphery of spirituality - they are interested in Reiki healing, or crystals, but not in the essence of existence. I know many people who go to the BK centres here regularly who are not at all interested in becoming BKs. It is just that the BK centre is one of the rare places where non-materialistic matters are discussed, and one can find friends interested in conversation at this level.
arjun wrote:But it must be kept in mind that while discussing any issue related to BKs, the good work being done by them should not be sidelined completely. Although we PBKs are raising many issues related to the interpretation and implementation of Murlis by BKs, we believe that ultimately it would be the united efforts of BKs and PBKs (and ex-BKs) that would bring about the world transformation that ShivBaba aims to usher in. I don't know how far the Ex-BKs would agree with me.
I personally believe some things about the BKs and the PBKs and wish to share them with you. I think the prophecy of destruction in 1976 was what we could call a "Self-Fulfilling Prophecy". Because BB said the world would end in 1976 it did end. Destruction took place in 1976. The destruction was of the old world of the BKs. Those who were disillusioned by what they saw as the failure of the prophecy left the BKWSU and so made the prophecy become true, hence it is self fulfilling. Then the PBKs emerged.

I do not believe that Gulzar Dadi channels Shiva Baba exclusively or at all, but I do not know if your Baba chanels Shiva Baba. However, I do believe it is likely, from what I have heard, that he does. I also think that much of what the PBKs say in commentary about the BKs is true. I will go into more detail about this on another occasion, but put simply I am very dubious about the source of information that is being channeled by Gulzar Dadi. Mostly, I believe, she is channeling Lehkraj Kirpalani, and he is effectively still running the Kirpalani business as chief executive. He is still up to all his old habits. Sucking up to the rich and famous etc. I do hope that the BKs and the PBKs join together as you wish and predict, it would certainly be a good thing, and would help to reform the BKWSU.

BTW Please can you give us an update on the incidence of beatings and kidnappings of PBKs by BK brothers? I have heard that the BKWSU administration is promising that these vile practices will be stopped. Is this true? I do hope the BKs will befriend the PBKs.

Keeping in mind what I said above about the lack of spirituality in the UK, I think you should be aware that 99% at least of UK citizens have never heard of the BKs and even less the BKs. Furthermore, if they did hear about it they would not care. They are only intereseted in material things. To them we are all religious crazies. That is a fact. I seldom mention anything spiritual to people because they would think I was crazy. They thought exactly that when I became a BK. The situation is improving, but as I said it is mostly in the area of "toys" like crystals etc. and nothing to do with the big questions of existence, soul and god that we discuss here.

In spiritual terms the UK is a very poor country indeed. Those of us you converse with here are very much the exception in this country, in that we have any interest in these matters at all. I cannot state too strongly, if you have never visited the UK you will find it hard to understand how different things are here. India is a spiritual country, the UK is a materialist country.

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Post by bansy » 22 Jan 2007

India is a spiritual country, the UK is a materialist country.
Is it not true that in the UK, I was told, that schools sing hymns during school assembly (is this the right word?) and during Nativity, even more bible songs. Maybe I was talking to some British friends who did this, though I wonder if the newer generations do so. I am not sure about what types of schools there are in the UK, whether there are Church of England schools, Catholic schools, etc. Maybe the material elements came later in life, though nowadys it seems the material influence on children is getting earlier and earlier.

How about in India, are "religious songs" sung by children when they are at school, depending of course on region and maybe dominant local religion. There is a difference I feel about what is "spirituality" and "religion", though when one is at a young age I am not sure if there is a difference.

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Assembly Songs

Post by proy » 22 Jan 2007

Yes it is true that when I was a boy we sang Christian songs at school assembly (yes, that is the right word) but even then we took very little notice of the religion, it was just done by rote. In fact we naughty boys used to sing rude words to the songs or just open and shut our mouths without any sound coming out. Now many schools are "multi-cultural" and they are not allowed to promote Christianity. This is because so many of the pupils are not Christians. Mostly they are Moslems, also Sikhs, Jews, Hindus, and atheists.

There are some schools dedicated to a particular religion, mostly Roman Catholic, but they are usually very expensive for the parents in school fees. They are usually excellent acedemically, and many people will convert to being catholics so they can send their children to these schools. The material element to life is definitely getting earlier. Most children are mainly interested in getting the latest designer clothing, mobile 'phone (cell 'phone) or computer game.

There is a sort of unquestioning acceptance of Christianity inculcated into us at a very young age, and yes, religion and spirituality are two very different things, I agree. Believe me though, the average UK citizen never goes to church or thinks about these things. To even say the word "God" is very unusual, and people avoid it, which is very unlike the situation in the USA. The most religious people in the UK are the immigrants, of which there are very many, mostly Jewish, Moslem, and Hindu.

They criticise the UK culture vehemently as being too materialistic and too sexual. The main religions of the Anglo-Saxon peoples of the UK are money, football, and alcohol. That is to say the culture is one based almost entirely on materialism and hedonism. There is no inherent morality, and soul consciousness is a great rarity.

How are things where you live Bansy?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Jan 2007

arjun wrote:And this site might have really brought about a subtle change in the thinking of double-foreigner BKs, but I don't think the BK Administration is as much alarmed about the discussions going on in this site as we may be thinking because a vast majority of the BKs and even the members of public who attend their programmes (especially in India) do not have access to internet or know about this site.
I guess what you say is true Arjun.

But more and more come on line each day and the first thing they will do is search online for BK related info and find this site.

What is interesting is that Jayanti and Mohini in New York are said to be down for the leadership positions after Janki and other pass away. As two major English speaking BKs, who enjoy the spotlight of power and influence in the media, they must both be aware of the effect the internet could have on their political campaigns.

Its a good thing to recommend this site to other places where potential BKs or BK supporters might look, e.g. forums, blogs, Yoga magazines personal wensites etc. And keep supporting those that have been hurt or damaged by the BKWSU, giving others courage by speaking out.

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Post by khormozian » 24 Jan 2007

A couple of questions:
proy wrote:BTW Please can you give us an update on the incidence of beatings and kidnappings of PBKs by BK Brothers? I have heard that the BKWSU administration is promising that these vile practices will be stopped. Is this true? I do hope the BKs will befriend the PBKs.
Does anyone have a source for this? Was there an official admission that BKs are abusing PBKs or just a vague condemnation of violence in general?
ex-l wrote:after Janki and other pass away
Has there ever been any speculation on how the trance channeling will be handled after Dadi Gulzar passes away?

Regards, Kurosh

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Post by arjun » 25 Jan 2007

I do hope that the BKs and the PBKs join together as you wish and predict, it would certainly be a good thing, and would help to reform the BKWSU. BTW Please can you give us an update on the incidence of beatings and kidnappings of PBKs by BK Brothers? I have heard that the BKWSU administration is promising that these vile practices will be stopped. Is this true? I do hope the BKs will befriend the PBKs.
Dear Proy,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I sincerely hope that the BKs extend a hand of friendship to the PBKs.

As regards update of violence against PBKs by BKs is concerned, I would not have liked to reply, but since you have particularly asked about it, I would like to say that in spite of this issue having come up in this forum strongly - and a vast majority of readers raising their voice against it - such incident has actually happened, that too in recent months at one of the megaprogrammes of the BKs in South India.

I only hope that the BK Administration gives a serious thought to this issue and tries to address it in a proper way.
Proy wrote:In spiritual terms the UK is a very poor country indeed. Those of us you converse with here are very much the exception in this country, in that we have any interest in these matters at all. I cannot state too strongly, if you have never visited the UK you will find it hard to understand how different things are here. India is a spiritual country, the UK is a materialist country.
Although I have not visited UK, but I can understand the situation there because the same situation is being repeated (and increasingly to say the least) in most cities across India. If you visit any of the metros in India you can easily see the change. But, in spite of the general decline in values in the bigger cities of India, I feel that on the whole India is comparatively more spiritual than many Western Countries.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 26 Jan 2007

arjun wrote:I would like to say that in spite of this issue having come up in this forum strongly and a vast majority of readers raising their voice against it, such incident has actually happened, that too in recent months at one of the megaprogrammes of the BKs in South India.
Arjun,

can you be specific what is going on and the extent of the violence, if that is what it is, that the BKWSU is doling out?

Thank you.

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Post by amaranthine » 26 Jan 2007

Is this violence reported in the media? Could it be scanned or a webpage given or is it just hearsay?

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Post by arjun » 26 Jan 2007

Dear ex-l and Amaranthine,

Thanks for your concerns. The violence by BKs against PBKs in India is not any hearsay but a reality and one of the reasons for the slow spread of advance knowledge. As soon as a BK becomes a PBK or even starts questioning the BKs regarding the knowledge he/she is generally banished from entering the BK centers so that the other BKs who do not know about the advance knowledge do not come to know of the advance knowledge. And even if other BKs ask why that particular BK stopped coming, they either cook up stories or if it is known to the other BKs that a particular BK has become a PBK, then the Seniors simply dole out rumours about Shankar Party, which creates a feeling of hatred for that ex-BK (i.e.PBK) among the new BKs. So even if that ex-BK (i.e. PBK) tries to contact fellow BKs, they treat him or her like a Shudra.

So the only way for a PBK to give message to fellow BKs is through pamphlets which are generally given only outside the venues of the big programmes of the BKs, where new and old BKs gather in large numbers. Here is where the violence takes place. They are abused or beaten by the BK brothers either in public or by taking the PBKs to some secluded place. I have myself witnessed some of such incidents where even the BK teachers were witness to these incidents but not one of them came forward to stop it. Sometimes violence against PBKs takes place when they try to give message to individual BKs and if that BK informs other BKs or if other BKs somehow come to know of it, they try to create fear in the mind of that PBK. Keeping this in view, the PBKs are now a days avoiding distributing pamphlets outside BK programmes. Sometimes they have tried pasting posters on walls, but even these are torn as soon as they come to the notice of BKs.

Some incidents of violence have been reported to the local police and official complaint lodged, but I don't think the matter has been reported to the media more than once, perhaps to avoid spoiling the image of BKWSU, whom we consider as our own bretheren. And I don't think the media in India is ready to take on organizations like BKWSU. Even general articles giving the difference between AIVV and BKWSU on issues of knowledge are not accepted by the major newspapers because most of them don't want to take any risk even if they accept off the record that the articles contain truth. This is the reason why PBKs have been so active on the net because it is a safe medium of spreading the information. BKs have tried to stop the spread the information about the PBKs by banning PBKs from their discussion forums. What some people do to the PBK information on Wikipedia is well known to many members of this forum. But for xbkchat and bkinfo, the information about PBKs would not have travelled so far and wide. So, I thank both xbkchat and BKInfo for the support that they have given to the PBKs.

I would like to request those BKs who are reading this post not to consider this as a vilification campaign by PBKs against BKs. I have provided the above information not on my own, but on being asked for it. And it is nothing but truth which can be proved. Although I can provide details of the proofs if forced to, but would not like to do so. I don't wish even in my dreams for the relationships between the BKs and PBKs to deteriorate any further. After all, we have to build a better world together.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by arjun » 26 Jan 2007

Om Shanti. This is what Avyakt BapDada has said in the latest Avyakt Vani dated 18th January, 2007 (page no.3) narrated through BK Gulzar Dadiji:

“Jab bhi aapke group ko dekhtey hain na toh sabhi khush ho jaatey hain kyonki aap bhi koto may koi, koi may koi nikley ho aur aajkal videsh seva kee achhi news hai. Achhey-achhey Muslim dharma may bhi sandesh dey rahey hain. Double videshiyon kee visheshataa ek bahut achhi gaayi hui hai ki double videshi agar kisi bhi kaarya may lagengey toh haan toh haan, na toh na. Jis kaarya may lagengey us kaarya may fir vijayi banengey.” (pg.4)

“Whenever everyone observes your group, everyone feels happy because you are also few among crores and further few among those few who have emerged. And now a days there is a good news on the front of foreign service. The nice ones are giving message even to the (members of) Muslim religion. One of the nice specialties of double foreigners is very famous that if double foreigners get involved in any task, then if they say yes, it is yes and if they say no it is no. Whichever task they get involved in, they emerge victorious.” (pg.4)

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Note: The English translation has been done by a PBK. If anyone has the official translation released by the BKs, they can post it here for comparison.

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Post by amaranthine » 26 Jan 2007

hi arjun,

it sounds like this is only ever going to be hearsay which if it is true must be very frustrating for you. The only way i can think of neutral people accepting your claims would be to get some kind of video or photographic evidence of these physical assaults - but even then that is open to falsification. These are strong accusations, criminal in fact and as such do need strong evidence for them to be believed.

I would like to think that this would not happen in the UK and do believe that it would not (the physical assaults that is) - from that assumption, do you think this a cultural thing?

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