The Mathematics of Gyan

for discussing science, relationships, religion or non-BK spirituality.
User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Statistical interpretation of cyclic nature of time

Post by fluffy bunny » 10 Jul 2007

new_world wrote:One divided by infinity is equal to zero ... Thus the probabilistic interpretation also goes in favour of cyclic nature of time.
Except that you cant divide a number by a concept ...

And, even you could, if there were an infinite amount of 10th of Julys ... it would always be the 10th of July. Which I will wager it will not.

new world
Vishnu Party
Posts: 178
Joined: 20 May 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by new world » 12 Jul 2007

Dear brother ex-l, actually the topic discussed in the article 'statistical interpretaion of cyclic nature of time' is very vast. It has been posted shortly. So you may be unsatisfied. But I am 100% sure that the point of time 7:30pm (Indian standard time) of 10th July 2007 will repeat infinitely (once in a Kalpa) exactly the same way. I'll submit more clarifications step by step in the next articles. OK?

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Jul 2007

In another post, you asked about worldly historical evidence, I posted 3 detailed replies but they have gone unaswered.

No need to make any efforts for me. One cant "prove" something like the 5,000 Year Cycle. It is a statement of blind faith. And, for me, an unsatisfactorily explained one. What would interest me is the history of the concept;
  • how, when and by whom was it introduced into the BK consciousness as a mental plug? It appears to be very early on in the Yagya.
    Where is the first record of this and what was the explanation made?
The sort of down to earth question I ask would be;
  • What and where is the mechanism that 'tick-tock' controls to the exact moment repetitively?
    Can you explain, scientifically, the entropic mechanism by which a Universe at its lowest state of energy raises itself once back up to its highest state again?
Half seriously, I would also ask, does that included Leap Years or not? When did they start? Where there Leap years in the Golden Age (No, do not bother answering).

What ... are we talking about 5,000 circles of the Sun or 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4.091 seconds x 365.2564 days x 5,000? Tropical ... anomalistic ... sidereal years? The devil is in the detail.

You see, the the universe does not work to such nice, neat, clean numbers. There is no reason for it to do so and all our clever little regular divisions of time are purely human, relative, approximately and dating only from a couple of thousand years ago ... how did the eternal Universe know them in advance? We also have been given indications that the BKWSU is all set to "review" its interpretation of the 5,000 Year Cycle ... as their predictions appear likely to fail once again.

John asks a question that we have discussed (or raised to silent response) elsewhere. For the Cycle to repeat, all the parts of the Universe will have to return to their original place in the macrocosm and microcosm. Now just a little surface clean up of India via Civil War and sinking of the continents.

How, within the BK model, do we regain all the satellites shooting off out into space?

Think about it. If each Cycle you remove a few thousands tonnes of mass and propel them out into outer space, after a few thousand Cycles, you will have no mass left for there to be a planet earth. Pre-flag on the moon, not something they would have thought about in 1930s Hyderabad.

Its a only mental plug, not a reality and I fear your ideas are closer to devotional poetry than hard science. The problem is, you start from the point of hugely unproven assumptions. There is nothing wrong with devotional poetry, mind you. Only it serves a different interest
  • ... to inflame faith rather than reason.

User avatar
abrahma kumar
Friends and family of
Posts: 1133
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Contact:

Maths of world drama - Inflaming Faith or Nurturing Reason?

Post by abrahma kumar » 12 Jul 2007

ex-l wrote:... One cant "prove" something like the 5,000 Year Cycle. It is a statement of blind faith. And, for me, an unsatisfactorily explained one. What would interest me is the history of the concept ... The problem is, you start from the point of hugely unproven assumptions. There is nothing wrong with devotional poetry, mind you. Only it serves a different interest... to inflame faith rather than reason....
Apologies ex-l, for having taken the liberty of pruning your eloquent post as above; and apologies to you too new_world for seeming to lend further credence to issue of "Faith and Reason" as down to earth questions within the discussion of F(t) = F(t + IT).

As a BKWSU student this discussion set me to wondering whether my faith in the idea of the World Drama Cycle would become irrevocable (unshakeable) were it proven, by any means currently available to mankind, to be an actuality. Having had much greater exposure to BKWSU oblox than the study of statistics, I am left with the feeling that all the other implications arising from the 'truth of the World Drama Cycle' would still be so revolutionary in nature that faith would always outweigh reason. Admitedly, faith is indeed a necessary ingredient in much of human endeavor but as ex-l points out in the post below what when faith becomes inflamed? The assertions that we are presented with as students of Raja Yoga do not seem to be dependant on reason, and why should they one may ask, seeing as the whole construct rests upon the Supreme Authority of GOD, Himself.

As a layman it strikes me that none of mankind's endeavors in science nor maths seeks specifically to disprove the existence of a G-O-D. Conversely, the study of Raja Yoja presents concepts that fly in the face of reason WITHOUT PROVIDING US PROOFS and perhaps more controversially WITHOUT ENCOURAGING REASONED DISCUSSION. Does this differ from any other religion? Maybe not.

Given my personal opinion as expressed in this post i still regard it as commendable that you have taken time to share with us the work you have done in this area and hopefully you will continue to enlighten us. Someone with not much of a scientific background once said to me that the problem with scientists is that they 'develop a theory and then try to prove it as a scientific fact'. The implication being that the mind's of scientists are 'closed'. i still think about that remark to this day and at the same time i wonder whether it could be argued that the BKWSU does not feel the need to prove or question anything because in their scripture it is written: "God Speaks".

As ex-l shared with us: you cant divide a number by a concept. And when that number is passed down by the Almighty Authority Himself what need is there for statistics or mathematics? Only Faith is needed, is it not? But just in case you are correct, what chances do you think that the organisations represented here will add a basic study of mathematics and statistics to the 7-Day course?

Looking forward to your follow-up articles on this topic. Thanks a lot.

P.S. I took the liberty of 're-touching' this post a little bit in the light of ex-l's finer point below regarding 'inflamed faith'. I excuse myself in doing this because in this post it may not have been clear that i was NOT castigating faith in favour of reason or separating them as 2 opposing 'energies' - and yes this is a sign that abek can be a bit pedantic at times. However, in this case i hope that some form good is being served and I trust that this post will be taken in good faith ;). As always there is nothing to beat honest human interaction and i won't even mention George Michael because i gotta have faith ... Which might be interpreted to mean that I cannot do anything without faith.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Jul 2007

I'd just like to touch the word "inflame", once again. There is nothing wrong in faith. Faith is one of our compasses in the journey towards the future. I would only caution "inflamed faith". Faith that outreaches reason by a considerable distance and attempts to bend, ignore, suppress it ... as the history of too many human 'religions" prove.

I think most of us have a feeling for when one's ego becomes inflamed. Grandious statements, sweeping gestures, personal intoxication as if one is in love ... and one nasty reaction or another if and when such faith bumps into concrete reason.

new knowledge
Academic
Posts: 463
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: questioning bk-pbk knowledge

Re: The Mathematics of Gyan

Post by new knowledge » 29 Jul 2008

ex-l wrote:Can you explain scientifically, the entropic mechanism by which a Universe at its lowest state of energy raises itself once back upto its highest state again?
Wow! Exactly here the modern science cannot work at all. Your query is formulated scientifically, but there is no scientific solution to it. God is believed to be The Reservoir of unlimited energy & He is not bound to degradation, i.e decrease in energy level. So, let's hope God will incarnate & He will restore the energy level of the Universe. When will this happen? Or is it happening today? Or does the energy level of Universe continue to degrade infinitely without any feedback process? If, this is so, then what's the use of spiritual efforts & RajYoga & why to wait for God's incarnation?

But I am hopeful. God will definitely provide practical solution to your query.

new knowledge
Academic
Posts: 463
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: questioning bk-pbk knowledge

Re: The Mathematics of Gyan

Post by new knowledge » 30 Jul 2008

'Spiritual Function of Mathematics' by Thomas J. McFarlane.

User avatar
bansy
Posts: 1643
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: The Mathematics of Gyan

Post by bansy » 30 Jul 2008

arjun wrote:ShivBaba (through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) has clearly said umpteen number of times that BKs are better in dharna and seva while PBKs are better in knowledge and remembrance.
Does this mean that non-BKs and non-PBKs are better in dharna and seva AND knowledge and remembrance, or does it mean they fail in all four subjects ?

Raja Yoga Truth Table :
  • dharna+seva Gyan+Yoga
    --------------- ------------
    0 0 Non BK and non PBK
    1 0 BKs
    0 1 PBKs
    1 1 Non BK and non PBK
Sorry folks, that's the limit of maths needed for now. Right now, I have a round birthday cake to cut and divide into for 9 hungry kids this weekend (notice the slight connection to Gyan). What is the solution to this dilemma?
  • (a) I should eat the entire cake myself
    (b) Should have made a cupcake each
    (c) Should have made cookies instead
    (d) Remake the cake square and divide it into 9 peices
    (e) let them all fight over it like dogs :D
Appreciate some of the maths in this thread. Maths can be a fascinating subject but only to the point of if it makes sense :oops:

User avatar
paulkershaw
ex-BK
Posts: 684
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BKWSU
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am an ex-teacher and member of the BKWSU and my interest lies in assisting those who request support on any level I can.
Location: South Africa

Re: The Mathematics of Gyan

Post by paulkershaw » 31 Jul 2008

Bansy - I'd personally choose you idea (e) and then go off and eat cheesecake! That's balancing the cheque-book.

User avatar
mr green
ex-BK
Posts: 1100
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: The Mathematics of Gyan

Post by mr green » 31 Jul 2008

Bansy, it is good to see you in rememberance of cake, I always knew I could convert you

User avatar
pilatus
non-BK
Posts: 112
Joined: 26 May 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: The Mathematics of Gyan

Post by pilatus » 31 Jul 2008

It's fairly obvious bansy that you should follow the BK's example: take option (a), eat the cake while in Baba's remembrance and then serve the nine children with loving, peaceful vibrations!

The only (slight) downside is that you may become a bit more mataji/Mr Green kumari-shaped but worrying about that would be body-consciousness, so no problem :D.

User avatar
bansy
Posts: 1643
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: The Mathematics of Gyan

Post by bansy » 02 Aug 2008

Thanks for all the advice, all considered.

Actually I managed to cut the round cake into 9 peices. Two horizontal and two vertical. Someone had to take the middle peice without the sides. Who said each peice had to be equal in shape ? Quality, not quantity.

The kids were happy, but I felt somehow it could have been done better though. The good thing is that each kid got to see the original, I did not edit any the cake out, and each peice got a strawberry. However, maybe I should have showed them the respect and tried to divide it into 40 degrees each which was tricky given the oozing cream. So I compensated it by baking another cake that was square, so each child then got an equal piece, and they got two cakes instead on one.

There may be some kids in this world who are happy with having any cake given to them. Like edited Murlis. These people enjoy edited Murlis so much they have so little self respect to demand for originals, that their own life will dictated by edited Murlis. Give them anything edited that just satisfies their hunger and they are full. There's nothing wrong with that, but the moment you put an original Murli and an n-times edited Murli side by side to pick up, which one would they choose?

Of course, they will still keep with the edited ones, since there is so little self respect they will keep on with the same way as it is, and will not know what to do with the original. They would even believe they don't need original words of God. I think there are some forum member(s) who are happy with their cake as it stands, that is drama, but this forum is about supporting so I hope such forum members will see such light one day.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests