Miriam Subirana - Liona de Espana (Lioness of Spain)

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vivaespana
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Miriam Subirana - Liona de Espana (Lioness of Spain)

Post by vivaespana » 07 Apr 2007

Buenos dias/Gooday

Soy nuevo con este grupo. Gracias por crear esta pagina de web. Siento que se ha olvidado de hablar de esa persona, la artista que es la co-ordinadora de espana. Quizas seria bueno tener algo acerca de ella en la pagina de BK Watch.

I am new to this group. Thanks for creating this web page. I have read some of the articles but feel that one person has been left out, the artist that is the co-ordinator of spain. It may be good idea to put something about her in the BK Watch one day.

What do you think?

Regards
Vivaespana

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Re: Miriam Subirana - Liona de Espana (lioness of Spain)

Post by joel » 07 Apr 2007

vivaespana wrote:I am new to this group. Thanks for creating this web page. I have read some of the articles but feel that one person has been left out, the artist that is the co-ordinator of spain. It may be good idea to put something about her in the BK Watch one day.
Welcome. Do you have some stories to share with us? Many of us are interested to hear stories of how people have been part of and in some cases left or rejoined the group. Perhaps your stories are as interesting as hers. And in religious dedication we are subject to giving higher regard to others' stories than to our own.

We have an unlimited supply of blank pages and eyes to read them.

vivaespana
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Miriam Subirana - Liona de Espana (lioness of Spain)

Post by vivaespana » 07 Apr 2007

Tengo muchas historias acerca de ella pero no se por donde empezar. Eso lo tengo que dejar para que los demas lo investige porque si yo comparto mis historias, sera demasiado obvia de quien soy yo. Estoy segura de que alguien pueda compartir algo que haya observado de ella

I have many stories, but would not know where to start. I will leave that for others to investigate as if I relate my stories, it would be too obvious to others about who I am. I am sure there will be someone who can relate something they have observed.

Hope you understand where I am coming from!!

Regards
Vivaespana

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Post by arjun » 08 Apr 2007

vivaespana wrote:I have many stories, but would not know where to start. I will leave that for others to investigate as if I relate my stories, it would be too obvious to others about who I am. I am sure there will be someone who can relate something they have observed.
Dear Sister,
Welcome to the forum. It is so nice of you to write in Spanish as well as English. Could you start with explaining what prompted you to leave the BKs? Is there anything that you still like about the BKs or the BK knowledge?

And by the way, who is this 'Miriam Subirana - Liona de Espana (Lioness of Spain)'?

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

vivaespana
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Post by vivaespana » 08 Apr 2007

Hi Arjun,

I left the BK's for many reasons. Whilst there were many positive things about the organisation, I think the negative ones stand out more for me right now. Some reasons to leave include the rigidity, the inability to express myself, the hierarchy, the domination from some Seniors and some BKs, too much conditioning que me come el coco, the inequality, the lack of support when one did have some issues to deal with, my list is endless and can go on and on and on.

About Miriam Subirana, if you read the first message, you will know who she is! I am sure some other ex-BKs will share something about it at some point.

What I do know is that many BKs have left the organisation because of her!!

Chao for now
Viva

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Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Apr 2007

vivaespana wrote:About Miriam Subirana, if you read the first message, you will know who she is! I am sure some other ex-BKs will share something about it at some point.

What I do know is that many BKs have left the organisation because of her!!
I do not know her. But, oh my Lord, if she is not another "President of the Brahma Kumaris World" and "Representative of BKWSU at the UN" ... Its just not enough to be just an ordinary Rajyogi these days.

Ditto, these funky nicknames, first we had the "Lioness of the Punjab", next we have the Lioness of the Castillan. Kind of lacks imagination really. The only ones they impress are their bhagats and who wants to be surrounded by bhagats all day? What does it mean ... Lioness? Lions and lionesses speak to me of fear, pride, aggression. They are carnivors and so eat others.

I see they get up to the same mischief in Spain as the BKWSU do in all the other countries of some individuals turning up at conferences as BKWSU members, e.g. Miriam Subirana from the Asociación Espiritual Mundial Brahma Kumaris, and then others, e.g. Pilar Quera, pretending to be from the Associació Living Values International, Spain e.g. another UN conference ... where they are no doubt sucking up to Federico Mayor Zaragoza. (What do they actually do at all these UN meetings?)

It makes me laugh. I wonder if they are actually DIRECTED to go sneaking around in disguise by the SS ... or if it just "happens" somehow after morning class.

Anyway ... welcome to the forum viva-e. The only way for us to be complete safe is to talk out and keep talking out. The whole world is watching and supporting you.

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Partners on the long saw

Post by joel » 10 Apr 2007

I've met a few people who are so active, work so hard that they make others around them work very hard to keep up. In the old days men worked in pairs using a long saw to cut down trees. In that distant age a huge athletic man could make life hell for his saw partner simply by "whipsawing," i.e. working harder than his partner was able.

I think that is the story of Miriam, and many other high-achieving BKs. What comes naturally to them is impossible for many others. Naturally, high-achieving BKs will want to have high-achieving service companions. A kind of selection process winnows out those who cannot keep up. In many cases they end up feeling like failures.

Here we see a disjunction between the qualities and possibilities of an individual that a therapist might help to draw out, compared with the evaluation of a BK recruiter. The recruiter will tend to neglect the value of an individual unless he or she is able to convert others or to do practical work in support of the center.

BK centers do tend to rank and judge individuals by their success in proselytizing. More successful recruiters are considered to be more spiritually advanced, and are given greater regard despite protestations of a 'family' ethos. VIPs are given regard due to their potential for helping to bring in new recruits.

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Post by zhuk » 10 Apr 2007

joel wrote:Here we see a disjunction between the qualities and possibilities of an individual that a therapist might help to draw out, compared with the evaluation of a BK recruiter. The recruiter will tend to neglect the value of an individual unless he or she is able to convert others or to do practical work in support of the center.

BK centers do tend to rank and judge individuals by their success in proselytizing. More successful recruiters are considered to be more spiritually advanced, and are given greater regard despite protestations of a 'family' ethos. VIPs are given regard due to their potential for helping to bring in new recruits.
Hmmm, very interesting Joel ;)

This explains so well why i was particularly "head-hunted" by a BK who was (and still is) full in the flush of the wondrous Honeymoon Period & who joined around the same time as I did. He pulled out all stops to try to get me 'back in" after I left (or more accurately, was 'asked to leave' due to my stated "brainwashing concerns").

Now I realise from joel's post that he was probably under intense pressure from the centre not only to "do his service" but to also achieve heightened 'BK status' , especially if those who brings others in or 'back to the FAMILY' are regarded as being more 'spiritually advanced' for doing so ... well the BK control-freak tendencies have never been clearer to me.

And if they are telling these poor sods that they are actually 'spiritually higher' than others just because they have become a practised 'BK Recruiter"(tm) ... ???

Well, the whole thing is just sickening, from an ethical POV :roll:

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Post by joel » 10 Apr 2007

zhuk wrote:Hmmm, very interesting joel ;)
Glad you think so.
And if they are telling these poor sods that they are actually 'spiritually higher' than others just because they have become a practised 'BK Recruiter"(tm) ... ??? Well, the whole thing is just sickening, from an ethical POV :roll:
I think they don't say so directly. That is the vibe that I think many of us got (and continue to get.)

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about Mirian

Post by freedom » 10 Apr 2007

Hi, I knew her before she was in charge. So when Monica fell of the throne, she took over and became a mini-Jayanti ... and there were so many sweet souls in Spain ... but hey, we are here now ... together ... :lol:

(and I am in CRica ... hot and interesting !!)

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Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: It has been over a year that I left the center but still there is a lot of pain in my heart...pain caused by deception. I went in looking to come into grips with my own sense of self and came out with no faith at all. The experience was so bad at times that now I am clear there is no such a god. For that I am grateful. Yet, there were other moments that I would not change for the best of my experiences. I experienced love as I had never imagined! It was a beautiful experience of forbidden love.

Post by driedexbk » 11 Apr 2007

vivaespana wrote: About Miriam Subirana, if you read the first message, you will know who she is! I am sure some other ex-BKs will share something about it at some point.
Welcome to the forum, Vivaespana.

I know the "president" of the BK in Spain by the name of Mira and I know how much she is liked by Dadi Janki. She gets special treatment and this is why she gets away with murder.

She seems to have an attitude problem, thus, not very liked by many

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Post by zhuk » 12 Apr 2007

joel wrote:I think they don't say so directly. That is the vibe that I think many of us got (and continue to get.)
No need to SAY anything :mrgreen: ... insinuation is all that's needed ... as fear of losing your 'status' (and hence the senior's praise/affirmation of your rapidly rising spiritual prominence within the organisation) will do the rest!

All delicious food for the ego ... which you thought you had overcome ;).

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Re: Miriam Subirana - Liona de Espana (lioness of Spain)

Post by proy » 14 Apr 2007

vivaespana wrote:I have many stories, but would not know where to start. I will leave that for others to investigate as if I relate my stories, it would be too obvious to others about who I am. I am sure there will be someone who can relate something they have observed. Hope you understand where I am coming from!! Regards Vivaespana
Hi vivaespana and welcome to the forum. I do understand where you are coming from, but I also wish you would tell us some of your stories. As John said on another thread -
John wrote:There seems to be a running pattern with non BK visitors to the forum, they either don't want to reveal anything or they psychobabble for the universe either way they never really seems to want to intereact with other forum members.
As you are an ex-BK you probably know a lot that could be useful to others. All I have managed to find out about Miriam is that she is an artist and runs the Living Values front for the BKWSU in Spain. This I looked up on Google.
vivaespana wrote:What I do know is that many BKs have left the organisation because of her!!
Why did so many BKs leave because of her?

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Post by vivaespana » 15 Apr 2007

Sorry Proy cannot give any informacion about my stories.

People are too scared to speak or go against people like her. Generally, people do not tell you why they have left because of her. I cannot tell you why but you only have to spend a few minutes in her company and you will understand why.

Most of Spanish and Latin American BK's do not speak English/Hindi, so they cannot express their sentiments (feelings) fully to Seniors. It is all about being surpressed and repressed under these kind of SS/Centre-in-Charge/Zone Co-ordinators. It is all about status and, yes, as someone said earlier when these kind of people are pets of DJ, then they "get away with murder".

People are treated almost like esclavos (slaves) around her. And they have to obey everything that she is saying, or else!!!. The ego is so powerful that many times, you would be looked down on by people like her. The opportunities would only be given to people who she gets on with. It is also about using people's money and, like many other Seniors, people with lots of dinero (money) would be respected more and treated like kings and queens.

There is a similar pattern worldwide in the BK world as some people have already shared on the forum. You may want to look at the Latin American co-ordinators as well and you will find that there are so many issues.

One situation I remember about the Co-ordinador of Mexico is she would demand that all the money that came into donation to one of the very small sub-centres in Baja California should be given to her. The poor sub centre was sufriendo economicamente (suffering economically) but they were so scared of her that they would give all the money to her.

I hope that other people in these parts of the world who have been victims will one day share somesing with you on this forum. Unfortunately, I have a very busy personal schedule such that I don't have the time to be a regular communicator on this forum.

Also, I do not want to get into conflict on this forum as I have enough to deal with sorting myself out of all the conditioning I have had as a BK. I do not need anymore conflict. I just want a peaceful life. So I will not be sharing any more on this forum now.

Saludos
Vivaespana

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Post by mr green » 15 Apr 2007

Good luck and fortune to you my friend.

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