Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

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For PBKs who are affiliated to AIVV, and supporting 'Advanced Knowledge'.
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sita
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 19 Jul 2016

--One thing is- they are mutually contradicting with each other. Once you say- if it is srimath, we can listen, but still say- if it comes from impure person, it is Ravan's knowledge.
There is no contradiction, that is why it is said that we should listen to only one. Whatever some fellow soul can say that is along with Shrimat, it is not his own mind, we are not listening to that soul. Shrimat means directions of God, directions of one, elevated directions. If some brother speaks knowledge that God has spoken, it does not make him elevated, just by speaking that. God is elevated. Just because someone speaks knowledge we should not become subordinate to him and consider his words Shrimat. These are not his words. Shrimat is of God.
PBK knowledge is not at all simple. No doubt in that. It is the PBK trimurtis, bull riding over Shankar, and vice-versa, and then boasting the transformation in the same birth, and the dates- 1998, 2008, 2016, etc, etc. PBKs list several Murlis points while delivering their lecture/service, and each PBK gives his own views.
Baba has said to go into the essence. The essence is simple. There is no benefit in going into expansion. Yes, it is good to churn, to go to the bottom of the ocean, to collect pearls, provided we are able to swim. If we get confused, what is the need to go into expansion.
For BKs, the basic service material is small- just seven days course- few pages. But, the PBK material consists of several Murli points- and then putting the views by the PBKs or their leader- not sure who writes in their literature and blogs. That is OK.
Come on, brother! Just compare the literature BK has published and PBK has published. The PBK knowledge is still contained in the 4 pictures. So far no environmental initiative, meditation techniques, living values, cooperation for better world, megaprogams, rallies, music, dances, performances, cultural programs, arts, youth, health wing, transport wing, SPARC, relationships, stress management, positive thinking. BKs have published materials of brothers and sisters. PBKs publish only Murlis and clarifications.

mbbhat
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 20 Jul 2016

sita wrote:Just because someone speaks knowledge we should not become subordinate to him and consider his words Shrimat. These are not his words. Shrimat is of God.
1)Please argue to the point. Everyone knows this (one should not become subordinate), even if it is properly followed or not, as it is up to the individual capacity.
BUT- you yourself have accepted/said- in AIVV, some get influenced by Chariot and mistake the Chariot for words of God (in double standard way- in an attempt to say- the name Krishna in Gita belongs to Mr Dixit. -whereas PBKs usually say- name Krishna there refers to DLR).

2)Moreover, PBKs openly say- Jagadamba of PBKs got influenced by DLR to such an extent that she left Yagya. Also- they say- DLR can misuse the body of Mr Dixit and is also riding over him, etc. See the extent of superior- subordinate things here! That too- between/in the main PBK personalities!

3)How to check whether something is going harmoniously or one is acting in a subordinate manner? It can be both. At some places in BKWSU, the student and teacher relations would be harmonious, at some places it may be superior, subordinate.

4)If you wish to prove that PBK knowledge is advanced one, you need to prove both your knowledge and dharna are higher, is it not? So, you should highlight greatness in AIVV than BKWSU. Else, what is the point in discussion? PBKs including you- argue in this manner many times like childish way. So, I once again request- PLEASE ARGUE TO THE POINT.
Come on, Brother! Just compare the literature BK has published and PBK has published. ...
5)I had anticipated this before writing. Those all materials like stress management, etc., are like just side scenes or something like tools of service, to motivate* and influence the souls to receive the true introduction of God. They are NOT knowledge(Godly versions).
No one becomes a practical BK by undergoing stress management course, living values, or by these programmes. Until one understands the 7 days course, he is not a practical BK. People come, listen to those materials and just leave. And- we know that- the quality of last citizens of Silver Age would be lesser, so they are likely to fit there.

6)And- there is NO NEED to undergo all of those activities to become a BK. They are not interdependent.
* - But, they are like 'raunak', and also a proof that BKs are able to do varieties of service.

7) But, PBKs quote SEVERAL Murli points (Godly versions) to argue and prove their claims. Else their course itself is incomplete. You may see how many Murlis points PBK members write in the forum- eg- arjun, yourself and abhimanyu- just in an attempt of doing service to others. Of course, I too have written , but I have written them as a discussion with PBKs, not with outsiders. And, so many Murli points were actually in an attempt to give doze to PBKs, in their own way.

8) Moreover, there is a LOT of gap/DIFFERENCE between those materials and the Murli points or pictures in a BK life. No BK will get enjoyment just by thinking of those materials.
But, in PBK life, there is NO MUCH GAP between the Murli points said to BKs or applicable to PBKs. PBKs will be highly happy (in their level/scale) when thinking about these Murli points, is it not?

sita
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 21 Jul 2016

BUT- you yourself have accepted/said- in AIVV, some get influenced by Chariot and mistake the Chariot for words of God (in double standard way- in an attempt to say- the name Krishna in Gita belongs to Mr Dixit. -whereas PBKs usually say- name Krishna there refers to DLR).
People who consider the part through Brahma Baba as the part of the God of the Gita is much more than all the PBKs put together. This mistake is reflected in the outside world. But this mistake will be rectified. Whilst in the BK there is complete darkness of ignorance at the moment, in the PBK it is both light and darkness. Some of the BKs will join those who are in the light of knowledge in the Advance Party and they will shine, whilst some of the PBKs will join the BKs who are in darkness and thus reinforce the mistake about the God of the Gita. You see how PBKs leave and it will gain momentum. Ultimately truth will prevail.
Moreover, PBKs openly say- Jagadamba of PBKs got influenced by DLR to such an extent that she left Yagya.
No, it was some people.
Also- they say- DLR can misuse the body of Mr Dixit and is also riding over him, etc.
In the color of the company the soul of Brahma Baba attains seed form like stage. The point about the bull riding over Shankar is about the point that the soul of Brahma Baba still enters, not that it misuses. When the soul of Ram achieves complete stage this entrance will not be there anymore. Like in the Murli it was said that ShivBaba rides the bull, it means enters, not misuses.
3)How to check whether something is going harmoniously or one is acting in a subordinate manner? It can be both. At some places in BKWSU, the student and teacher relations would be harmonious, at some places it may be superior, subordinate.
Subordination will be there where there is artificial titles. If all are subordinated to one, then all are brothers and sisters among themselves. This can be there only if mother and Father are there in practical who can exercise their authority. Left on their own children will quarrel among themselves and the evil ones will try to dominate the weak ones.
If you wish to prove that PBK knowledge is advanced one, you need to prove both your knowledge and dharna are higher, is it not? [/b] So, you should highlight greatness in AIVV than BKWSU. Else, what is the point in discussion?

This is not my intent, but it is seen that many times you are obsessed with that - who is greater. The only greatness of the PBK is that they have recognized god. They have no other special qualities, but this is enough, it will bring all other qualities.

Re points 5), 6), 7) & 8) in viewtopic.php?f=2&p=51616#p51614

What is wrong with quoting Murli points? :prize:

mbbhat
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 23 Jul 2016

sita wrote:People who consider the part through Brahma Baba as the part of the God of the Gita is much more than all the PBKs put together.
1) You are making two blunders here. First is- defending your own mistake, by pointing fingers at others.
---Secondly, there was no mistake from the other side at all. A Murli point had already been shown to you, which says- it is "OK to say God of Gita/Knowledge, as Brahma". - Post No. 66/76 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ley#p11388
Still you like to argue against Murli, which are nothing but VERSIONS of MOST BELOVED, WORLD ALMIGHTY AUTHORITY, SUPREME Father ShivBaba.
A very senior PBk member had accused me that I am acting superior to ShivBaba. Now, your own posts prove here, what PBKs accuse others of.

2)More about INVERTED intellects of PBKs is here- flaw No. 275- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51627#p51627

It may not be wrong to say- When PBKs have no room to argue, they just resort to saying some nonsense.
No, it was some people.
Again, a lie, once again. You only said- DLR created eclipse on PBk jagadamba-mahakali Kamala Devi, and even Guru of PBKs had clearly said child Krishna had committed 'atrocity' on their mother Jagadamba.
What is wrong with quoting Murli points?
Again arguing out of context. I did not say- quoting Murli points is wrong. I said - in that case, the PBK knowledge is not simple. BKs do not need to memorize/quote so many Murli points to do their service, or make self-effort.

sita
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 05 Sep 2016

These are two points that speak about Bahma, Vishnu and Shankar as three separate deities. Nowadays we need proofs for even such basic matters.

"When the Father comes, Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are also required, without fail. It is also said, "Trinity God Shiva speaks". Now he cannot speak through all three of them (at the same time). These matters should be imbibed properly. [ Mu 22-2-75]

The Father comes. He is separate. Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar are here. They are separate.


"Names of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are uttered. But it’s not understood in whom God enters out of these three. Those people utter the name of Vishnu but he’s a deity. How can he teach? Baba tells himself that I enter into him. "(4-5-84 pg-3)

God enters....he is separate. The three among whom he enters are separate.


"I give you the kingdom of heaven. Even there I do not live in palaces. Here also I do not stay in palaces. It is sung, ‘Bum-bum Mahadev (Shankar)! Fill up my jholi (it is a piece of cloth used for receiving alms). But nobody knows when and how he fills up the jholi? Jholi was filled up surely when he was in living form."(12.5.72, pg.2)

Baba has said that when I come I definitely need a body. He needs a body to act. And his form in front of whom people go to fill up the apron the joli of their mind with jewels of knowledge is Mahadev.

In the light of the recent revelations in this forum that Shiva enters the Subtle Brahma (because why not) Trimurti is Shiva with Mama and Baba, Mama is there having taken rebirth in Nepal I just feel like saying enough. We have had enough of human explanation for many births. Now we are not going to listen to the ignorance, arrogance and stubbornness of people. They have created a smart way to dismiss whatever they don't like from the Murli. They say that it refers to the past only. But Baba has said to revise the Murli. It means whatever is there is actual.

They like to prevent people from going to the Advance Party and listening to the knowledge there, but Baba has told us in advance that this is the recognition of the Godly gathering. People will stop you.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 05 Sep 2016

They like to prevent people from going to the Advance Party and listening to The Knowledge there, but Baba has told us in advance that this is the recognition of the Godly gathering. People will stop you.
Baba has clearly given srimath/warning- not even to listen to such people- Post No. 54 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... tion#p7817 and 131- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ion#p12506

BTW, in one of my experiences- I met a PBK soul during my journey. That soul was going to visit a BK house for giving the so-called advanced knowledge. During my discussion with that soul, that soul recognized that I was not a CHEAP PREY - like the PBKs had become of Mr Dixit - but still invited me for the discussion in that BK's house (a usual over-confidence what PBKs have).
But- that soul had asked me- to remain quiet and not to speak anything! (interfere in between), in the discussion in that Bk's house during the so-called spiritual service of that soul. I kept quiet, and left later.

See- "some PBK souls invite, but then say- you should not speak!" :laugh:

Who is stopping whom?
----------
The very basic foundation of PBKs itself has gone DRASTICALLY wrong, even by "their own view". On the one hand PBKs try to assert that birth of BVS takes place together. But, in their own view- there are four, not three.

Again in their own view- initially seat of Brahma was given to Premkanta, then was shifted to Kamala Devi. Mr Dixit, while playing his role of HK hood, by trying to grab ALL the THREE seats B, V ad S for himself - and at the same time simultaneously trying to assert that B, V and S are three separate souls, LOSES the seat of Prajapita Brahma, himself, WITHOUT REAL-EYEsing same!
-----------
But Baba has said to revise the Murli. It means whatever is there is actual.
Definitely- they are true, because Baba has already said here- Post No. 117 - The main teachings are over, so Sakar Murlis are really full in themselves. Post No. 117 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=160

It also implies- there CANNOT BE MUCH SIGNIFICANT knowledge either in Avyakt Murlis or the so called clarifications of Mr. Dixit.
But- it also says- old points will not come into use. So, it finally depends on the ability of the individual to recognize which all Murli points hold value, and the ability to interpret them in right manner, and correct context in which ShivBaba originally intended, by understanding the context in which they were actually spoken, which is possibly ONLY IF THE ENTIRE Murli IS READ/STUDIED, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THOSE SPECIFIC POINTS BEING HIGHLIGHTED, AT ANY TIME. Just resorting to interpreting isolated Murli points, by THEMSELVES, amounts to LITTLE Knowledge, which is MISLEADING & DANGEROUS!
They have created a smart way to dismiss whatever they don't like from the Murli.
It is PBKs who actually do this. Already proved and put here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&start=810 - and at many many other places.
sita wrote:enough
This reminds me of the story of the fox saying- "grapes are sour"

Dear PBK Sita soul,

If you have ANY MORE Murli POINTS claiming to support AIVV, and is interested in following your Guru who likes to discuss and discuss, kindly mention. I will try to churn even on them. Thank you.

sita
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 05 Sep 2016

So, it finally depends on the ability of the individual to recognize which all Murli points hold value and the ability to interpret them in right manner.
If you assume some points don't have value, why would your assumption have value? And Baba has said...we have had enough from human interpretation. These have caused downfall of humanity for birth after birth and now it is not time for that.
Dear PBK Sita soul,

If you have ANY MORE Murli POINTS claiming to support AIVV, and is interested in following your Guru who likes to discuss and discuss, kindly mention. I will try to churn even on them. Thank you.
Did you also say something on the points? I have missed that.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 05 Sep 2016

If you assume some points don't have value, why would your assumption have value? And Baba has said...we have had enough from human interpretation. These have caused downfall of humanity for birth after birth and now it is not time for that.
I have not said it. It is ShivBaba who has said it. Post No. 37- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... t=30#p4089 . You are arguing against ShivBaba.

Whenever any BK highlights the PURE, ORIGINAL, UN-CORRUPTED & UNADULTERATED INTENT of REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, in the SMs & AVs, the BLIND PBKs IMMEDIATELY accuse the PBKIVV or BKSWU, or the concerned BK, that the same are their OWN dictates, influenced by the dictates of other Seniors, ('manmat' or 'parmat'), WITHOUT REAL-EYEsing that they THEMSELVES have got SEVERELY TRAPPED in the TREACHEROUS BOG of Ravan's 'manmat', 'parmat', 'kumat', 'Ravan-mat' or 'Mayavi-mat' - DELUSIVELY believing same to be the 'Shrimat' of God! WHAT A TREACHEROUS PARADOX, WITHIN THIS EWD, INDEED!

Left to you how to understand and proceed.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 05 Sep 2016

I was not a CHEAP PREY
Sometimes we fall prey to our own thinking, to manmat. We are all our own enemies and friends, so we need Shrimat to uplift ourselves. Following our own opinion we will fall.
Who is stopping whom?
You know very well who is stopping whom. In your stubbornness you go after and argue over ridiculous matters.


= RESPONSE =

View earlier post - Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK) - Post by sita » 05 Sep 16 -
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2552&p=51812#p51797

"When the Father comes, Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are also required, without fail. It is also said, ‘Trinity God Shiva speaks’. Now he cannot speak through all three of them (at the same time). These matters should be imbibed properly." [Mu 22-2-75]

“When the Father (God) comes, Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are also required, without fail (their SYMBOLIC Spiritual BIRTH also takes place at the SAME TIME - INTELLECTUALLY). It is also said, ‘Trinity God Shiva speaks’ (the ONE who performs THREE DIFFERENT, UNIQUE & SEPARATE TASKS – as ‘Brahma’, ‘Vishnu’ & ‘Shankar’ – both, DIRECTLY & INDIRECTLY, or as ‘Karanhar’ & ‘Karavanhar’through the HIGHEST embodied souls among the whole of Humanity, the very FIRST TWO LEAVES of the Human World Tree – Brahma Baba & his Spiritual soul-mate or ‘yugal-dana’ Saraswati Mamathe Spiritual SEED of this Human World Tree being God HIMSELF). NOW, (in the VERY BEGINNING, when ALL embodied souls are TOTALLY body-conscious), He (God) cannot speak through ALL THREE of them (or ANY of them, because ALL THREE of them are ONLY SYMBOLIC subtle deities). These (SUBTLE) matters should be imbibed properly.”

It has ALREADY been clarified earlier, on this forum, that the Spiritual BIRTH of Shiva takes place EXACTLY at the SAME TIME/DATE as ALL the CONCERNED Brahmin Children, including SYMBOLIC B, V & S, and that is why ShivBaba has mentioned in several Murlis that the BIRTH-DAY of Shiva and the Children is EXACTLY the SAME!
The sentence, “NOW, He cannot speak through ALL THREE of them”, means that God CANNOT speak through ALL of them, or ANY one of them, because, this refers to the SUBTLE SYMBOLIC DEITIES – B, V & S – and God DOES NOT speak through ANY of those THREE SUBTLE SYMBOLIC DEITIES; and ALL the CONCERNED Children on this corporeal sphere are in TOTAL DARKNESS & IGNORANCE of Knowledge, and COMPLETELY TRAPPED in ABJECT body-consciousness AT THAT TIME, or in the VERY BEGINNING. That is the reason why God has to DESCEND onto this IMPURE corporeal sphere and ENTER the IMPURE corporeal body of REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, in order to give the Knowledge, explain, clarify and train the CONCERNED Children to develop their subtle stage of consciousness, so that God may continue to interact with them EVEN AFTER REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR becomes Avyakt, in 1969, who is referred to simply as ‘Brahma’ in the Trimurti. God requires to come in an impure World, in the impure body of Prajapita Brahma or soul of DLR, in order to give Knowledge PRACTICALLY, which can be readily understood by souls who are TOTALLY body-conscious – and this is a TOTALLY SEPARATE function of God, as ‘Brahma’, the Creator, as ‘Karanhar’; and the VERY SAME Prajapita Brahma or soul of DLR then becomes Avyakt or Subtle Brahma, in 1969 – (who is referred to simply as ‘Brahma’ in the Trimurti), THEN being instrumental to perform the PRACTICAL task as ‘Shankar’, intellectually COMBINED with God and his soul-mate Saraswati Mama, till the end of Confluence Age – and this AGAIN, is a TOTALLY SEPARATE function of God, as ‘Shankar’, the Transformer, as ‘Karanhar + Karavanhar’, or ‘Karan-karavanhar’; and finally, the VERY SAME soul of Brahma Baba becomes instrumental to PRACTICALLY sustain the embodied souls, as Vishnu, in G A, along with his soul-mate or ‘yugal-dana’, Saraswati Mama or first Lakshmi of G A – which is AGAIN a TOTALLY SEPARATE function of God, as ‘Vishnu’, the Sustainer, as ‘Karavanhar’. This understanding requires a subtle intellect, that is why God has further mentioned in this Version that, ‘These MATTERS should be imbibed PROPERLY’!
Obviously ‘MAHA-MURKH’ bodily guru of the PBKs, Virendra Dev Dixit, and the BLIND PBKs with INVERTED intellects, are NOT EXPECTED to ‘imbibe these MATTERS PROPERLY’, owing to their RANK ARROGANCE of body-consciousness. NOTHING NEW!

"Names of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are uttered. But it’s not understood in whom God enters out of these three. Those people utter the name of Vishnu but he’s a deity. How can he teach? Baba tells himself that I enter into him." (4-5-84 pg-3)

"Names of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are uttered (by the IGNORANT devotees and bodily gurus of the outer World, who CANNOT DIFFERENTIATE between the spiritual status of Avyakt or Subtle Brahma & Prajapita Brahmathe ‘shooting’ of which takes place, in Confluence Age, through the IGNORANT, BLIND PBKs and their bodily guru, Virendra Dev Dixit, who cannot understand that Avyakt or Subtle Brahma & Prajapita Brahma are ONE and the SAME soul of Brahma Baba or DLR, at DIFFERENT TIME PERIODS in Confluence Age, and who becomes the first prince of G A, by virtue of that HIGHEST spiritual status in Confluence Age). But it’s not understood, (by the IGNORANT devotees and bodily gurus of the outer Worldthe ‘shooting’ of which takes place, in Confluence Age, through the IGNORANT, BLIND PBKs and their bodily guru, Virendra Dev Dixit), in whom God enters out of these three (which CLEARLY means God ENTERS ONLY ONE out of these THREE, and NOT ALL THREE of them - being REAL Prajapita Brahma or soul of Brahma Baba or DLR, who himself becomes Avyakt in 1969). Those (IGNORANT or INNOCENT) people utter the name of Vishnu, but he’s a deity. How can he (Vishnu) teach? Baba (God) tells Himself, that, ‘I enter into him’ (REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, into his IMPURE corporeal body, on this IMPURE corporeal sphereand NOT into Vishnu)."

Hence, from the above two Versions, it is CRYSTAL CLEAR that God DOES NOT speak through the instrumental SYMBOLIC, COMPLETE form of ‘Brahma’ of Subtle Region, prior 1969, (but through the instrumental CORPOREAL, INCOMPLETE or IMPURE form of that very SAME SOUL, who is REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, through his impure corporeal body, on this impure corporeal sphere, UNTIL 1969, when he himself becomes that COMPLETE form of ‘Brahma’ in his Subtle bodyNO LONGER SYMBOLIC)! The question of God speaking through EITHER Vishnu or Shankar, as His appointed CORPOREAL Chariot, AFTER 1969, DOES NOT ARISE, since Vishnu sustains PRACTICALLY in the New World, and Shankar DOES NOT take a corporeal body on loan, LIKE ShivBaba or God!
Obviously ‘MAHA-MURKH’ bodily guru of the PBKs, Virendra Dev Dixit, and the BLIND PBKs with INVERTED intellects, are FULLY EXPECTED to ‘imbibe these MATTERS IMPROPERLY’, owing to their RANK ARROGANCE of body-consciousness. NOTHING NEW!

For better understanding, view earlier posts below -
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&start=45#p50967
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&start=90#p51327

"I give you the kingdom of heaven. Even there I do not live in palaces. Here also I do not stay in palaces. It is sung, ‘Bum-bum Mahadev (Shankar)! Fill up my jholi (it is a piece of cloth used for receiving alms). But nobody knows when and how he fills up the jholi? Jholi was filled up surely when he was in living form." (12.5.72, pg.2)

“I (REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God) give You (Righteous Children) the Kingdom of Heaven. Even there I do not live in palaces (God DOES NOT come in G A). Here also I do not stay in palaces (the ‘mukrar-rath’ of God, Brahma Baba, DOES NOT live in a palace, after receiving the Knowledge). It is sung, ‘Bum-bum Mahadev’! Fill up my ‘apron’ (by the IGNORANT or INNOCENT devotees of the outer Worldthe ‘shooting’ of which is carried out, in Confluence Age, by the Unrighteous children who think God gives advanced knowledge through their bodily guru, Virendra Dev Dixit, who TREACHEROUSLY MASQUERADES as ‘Shankar’, and whom the BLIND, Unrighteous children DELUSIVELY regard as ‘Shankar’). But nobody knows when and how He (God) fills up the ‘apron’ (of the Righteous Children)! ‘Apron’ was filled up surely when He (God) was in ‘LIVING’ form (FIRST through the corporeal body of Brahma Baba, till 1969; and THEN through the subtle body of Brahma Baba, to dateBOTH are ‘LIVING’ forms, and NOT ‘DEAD’ forms).”
Obviously ‘MAHA-MURKH’ bodily guru of the PBKs, Virendra Dev Dixit, and the BLIND PBKs with INVERTED intellects, are NOT EXPECTED to ‘imbibe these MATTERS PROPERLY’, owing to their RANK ARROGANCE of body-consciousness. NOTHING NEW!

For better understanding, view earlier post below-
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&start=150#p51694

ShivBaba or God has said that when He comes He definitely needs a body. He needs a body to act. And His form, in front of Whom, Children go to fill up their aprons of their INTELLECTS with Jewels of Knowledge is REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, who ALSO enacts the role of Shankar or MahaDev, ALONG WITH ShivBaba or God, and his soul-mate or ‘yugal-dana’ Saraswati Mama - MORE ACTIVELY, AFTER he becomes Avyakt, in 1969!

The Righteous Children have had MORE THAN enough of human explanations of bodily gurus, like ‘MAHA-MURKH’ Virendra Dev Dixit, for many births during Ravan Rajya. Now the Righteous Children are NOT going to PAY ANY ATTENTION to the ignorance, arrogance and stubbornness of such DAMNED spiritual IDIOTS, like the BLIND PBKs and their ‘MAHA-MURKH’ bodily guru, Virendra Dev Dixit. They have CRAFTILY & SPITEFULLY created a smart way to dismiss whatever they DO NOT like, or CANNOT understand, from the Pure Versions of God in the SMs and AVs; and they TOTALLY & COMPLETELY CORRUPT & ADULTERATE the RANDOMLY SELECTED, ISOLATED Pure Versions of God - by MISINTERPRETING, MISREPRESENTING & MISAPPROPRIATING same, to be in accurate consonance with the DISTORTED & PERVERTED CONCEPTS of ‘Tamopradhan Bhakti’ or DEGRADED DEVOTION, to be instrumental to carry out the ‘shooting’ of HiranyaKashyap & Ravan Rajya, in Confluence Age - while ALL the TIME, DELUSIVELY believing & MAINTAINING that they are propagating the unlimited clarifications of the Pure Versions of God - to TRAP as many UNWARY & UNSUSPECTING spiritual aspirants, as is allowed, within this EWD!

A comprehensive example of how ‘MAHA-MURKH’ Virendra Dev Dixit has been making THOROUGH IDIOTS out of the BLIND PBKs can be viewed in the following links -
viewtopic.php?f=40&p=51786#p51762
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2642&start=90#p51554

Their MAIN AIM is to CONFUSE & CONFOUND the spiritual aspirants from comprehending the Pure Versions of God in the CORRECT PERSPECTIVE, so as to COMPLETELY DIVORCE them from God, and lead them towards the Path of Perdition & Degradation - by CRAFTILY PRETENDING to be the HIGHEST, NOBLEST & MOST DEVOUT disciples of God!
Hence, REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God has CLEARLY REVEALED and REPEATEDLY WARNED, in advance, to be EXTREMELY CAREFUL of this Godly Form or ‘Ishwariya Rup’ of Ravan or Maya, MASQUERADING as ‘ShivBaba’, ‘Prajapita Brahma’, ‘Shankar’, etc., etc., etc.
As per Drama Plan, ALL CONCERNED, on this forum, are also being DULY CAUTIONED & WARNED, in ADVANCE, ACCORDINGLY!

sita
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 20 Sep 2016

08.03.76, “Many new ones will certainly come in the future. It isn’t that only those coming first will go ahead. The Father says, when the ones who come in the end receive the throne (position), they become clever.”
There are many points with the same meaning, but one used to mention 30 years. That the new ones will gallop ahead of those who have been in knowledge even for 30 years. It means that it is not that it will be only about the future. Because do we have such example of soul galloping ahead of the Dadis so far? Are the words of Baba not going to be proved to be true. Definitely. There are many souls who have followed the knowledge for 30 years. Those souls who have come in the Yagya around its beginning and after they have followed for 30 years such a soul comes in the Yagya who goes ahead of them in all respects that is now seen in the Advance Party.


= RESPONSE =

The 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya, -Virendra Dev Dixit, is VERY MUCH EXPECTED to MISINTERPRET/MISREPRESENT/MISAPPROPRIATE the Pure Versions of God, under the ACTIVE influence of Ravan or Maya - which is PERFECTLY IN ORDER, as per Drama Plan - OTHERWISE, Drama would be LOP-SIDED, since there would be NO 'Night of the Cycle', the 'shooting' of which is carried out by the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, -Virendra Dev Dixit, in Confluence Age!

The above Version CLEARLY DOES NOT APPLY to the TWO, TOP-MOST or HIGHEST, embodied souls, in the human REALM, within this EWD. God HIMSELF has CLEARLY DECLARED that NO OTHER embodied souls CAN EVER GO HIGHER THAN Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama, or souls of DLR & Om Radhe.
View earlier post in link below -
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=1217&p=48694&hilit=America#p48694
BKWSU Rev SM dated 13.12.2013 wrote:One should go even higher than Baba & Mama (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani & Om Radhe). BUT, just as Baba(Supreme Soul Shiva) says that if those TWO Christians (America & Russia) get together, then they can become the Masters of the World, (but this is NOT destined within Drama), there is NO such combination of Soul Mates (Yugal Dana) who can emerge, who can go higher than Mother & Father (Om Radhe & BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani). Only the World Mother & World Father (Om Radhe & BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) are renowned; others will not be able to perform service like THESE (Om Radhe & BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani). THESE (Om Radhe & BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) have become instrumental, hence do not be dis-heartened. OK, even if others cannot become like Mama & Baba (Om Radhe & BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani), they can yet come into the second number. Everything depends on Service!

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 20 Sep 2016

sita wrote:There are many points with the same meaning, but one used to mention 30 years. That the new ones will gallop ahead of those who have been in knowledge even for 30 years. It means that it is not that it will be only about the future. Because do we have such example of soul galloping ahead of the Dadis so far? Are the words of Baba not going to be proved to be true. Definitely. There are many souls who have followed The Knowledge for 30 years. Those souls who have come in the Yagya around its beginning and after they have followed for 30 years such a soul comes in the Yagya who goes ahead of them in all respects that is now seen in the Advance Party.
1) Who has denied that late comers cannot go ahead of others?

2) And- this is not a supporting Murli point for PBKs.

3) The PBK logic above is nothing but a twisted one, and using Murli points as scapegoat.

4) Baba has never said- Advance Party souls are the ones who HAD BEEN in Yagya, and then left(lost faith) and then returned back again.

5) Baba has also not said Advance Party souls would be number one. Baba has said- there is no question of number one and two. Both are equally well placed. PBKs believe Advance Party souls are number one. PBKs never certify others souls can go ahead of, or be equal to, Advance Party souls. HENCE PBK CLAIM GOES TOTALLY WRONG. Post No. 170 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... hak#p14353 . Baba clearly says- "First second ki baath naheen " = There is no matter/question of first and second.

6) Moreover, the words "IN ALL RESPECTS" claimed by the above pbk is nothing but just funny. We can see countless failures of Mr. Dixit even till today. Put in this thread - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51874#p51874

And- PBKs themselves say- Mr Dixit is being controlled by 'ghost', and most importantly- they say- PBKs are going to become pure in two subjects from the company of the other group! - :laugh: Do PBKs UNDERSTAND what they speak, on the one hand; and what they ACTUALLY IMPLY on the other hand, by their DECEPTIVE statements???

sita
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 28 Sep 2016

"People also remember Brahma, Vishnu [and] Shankar. They are certainly visible through these eyes." (Mu.19.08.73, middle of pg.1)

Here it is said that Shankar can be seen through these eyes.

"The part of Brahma in the task of establishment is fixed till the end. Until the task of establishment is completed, the part of the soul who has become the instrument (Prajapita Brahma) will not be completed. He can’t play another part till then. The part of the World Father of completing the creation of the new world is fixed in the drama. Only Brahma is famous for creating all the dynasties of the human creation. So he is praised as the Great Great Grandfather. Only the state, place and speed have changed, but the part of Brahma is the same even now." (A.V. 30.06.74, middle of pg.83)

Here it is said that the role of establishment of Brahma is fixed there till the end and he cannot play another part. If someone claims Brahma plays the part of Shankar - it is wrong.


= RESPONSE =

"People also remember Brahma, Vishnu [and] Shankar. They are certainly visible through these eyes."
(Mu.19.08.73)
Here, the world, 'People', refers to the 'bodily gurus' and the devotees of the outer World, who are NOT in the Knowledge, and who DO NOT have the TRUE introduction of God! For these, Spiritually BLIND 'People', Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are 'VISIBLE' through their physical eyes, by way of the DISTORTED & PERVERTED MEMORIALS & PICTURES of 'Tamopradhan Bhakti' or DEGRADED DEVOTION - the 'shooting' of which is carried out, in Confluence Age, by 'MAHA-MURKH' -Virendra Dev Dixit, and the EQUALLY 'MAHA-MURKH', BLIND PBKs, who are TREACHEROUSLY TRICKED into DELUSIVELY believing that they are 'SEEING' 'Shankar' with their physical eyes, through the corporeal body of 'MAHA-MURKH' -Virendra Dev Dixit - GOING TOTALLY AGAINST the Pure Versions of God, and continuing to OPPOSE, DEFAME, INSULT & MOCK God CONSISTENTLY & PERSISTENTLY, by continuing to MISINTERPRET, MISREPRESENT & MISAPPROPRIATE EACH & EVERY Pure Version of God, as is the case in this CLASSIC EXAMPLE, above!
These MORONS are COMPLETELY BLIND to the Pure Versions of God, and continue to ARROGANTLY DODGE and IGNORE the Pure Versions, which CLEARLY GO AGAINST their PREPOSTEROUS PRESUMPTIONS -
view links below:
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=51694&hilit=Shankar#p51694
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=51638&hilit=Shankar#p51638
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=51327&hilit=Shankar#p51327
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=51305&hilit=Shankar#p51305
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=50967&hilit=Shankar#p50967

CLEAR PROOF of how Ravan or Maya HIJACKS the Pure Versions of God, and makes COMPLETE IDIOTS of the BLIND, UNSUSPECTING PBKs, who have been TREACHEROUSLY indoctrinated through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, 'MAHA-MURKH' -Virendra Dev Dixit!!! View link below -
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&hilit=Shankar ... 150#p51762

For the Righteous Children who have received the Pure Knowledge from God, and the CORRECT introduction of God and His 'mukrar-rath', ACCURATE forms of Brahma, Vishnu & Shankar are CERTAINLY CLEARLY VISIBLE THROUGH the THIRD EYE of Knowledge, or through these DIVINE EYES, which have been GIFTED by God Himself, AS SOON AS a Righteous Child is Spiritually Re-Born through the Pure Knowledge from God!

"The part of Brahma (REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR) in the task of establishment, is fixed till the end (FIRST, in 'Sakar', through his corporeal body, UNTIL 1969; and THEN, in 'Akar', through his subtle body, till the end of Confluence Age)! Until the task of establishment is completed, the (CREATIVE role or) part of the soul who has become the instrument (Brahma Baba or soul of DLR) will not be completed. He cannot play another part (through ANOTHER CORPOREAL BODY) till then. The part of the World Father (Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God - THROUGH His ONE & ONLY 'mukrar-rath' of REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR - FIRST, in 'Sakar', through his corporeal body, UNTIL 1969; and THEN, in 'Akar', through his subtle body, till the end of Confluence Age) of completing the creation of the New World is fixed in the Drama. Only Brahma (REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR) is famous for creating all the dynasties of the human creation. So he (REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR) is praised as the Great Great Grandfather. Only the state (corporeal body to subtle body), place (corporeal STAGE to subtle STAGE) and speed (from SLOW speed to FAST speed, due to having NO CONSTRAINTS of the physical body) have changed, but the (CREATIVE role or) part of Brahma (REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR) is the same even now (as it was PRIOR 1969)." (A.V. 30.06.74)

No doubt, WHATSOEVER, that REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God is referring to REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, ALONE, and NONE OTHER, in the above Pure Version of God! Ravan or Maya continues to HIJACK all such Pure Versions of God, to TREACHEROUSLY TRICK the BLIND PBKs into DELUSIVELY believing that 'MAHA-MURKH' -Virendra Dev Dixit is the 'mukrar-rath' of God, when, IN FACT, he is the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya, MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba', 'Supreme Soul', 'Rama', 'Prajapita', 'Shankar', etc., etc., etc.!

sita
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 28 Sep 2016

I don't have the complete Murlis. Here it is said that people also remember, it means that someone else also remembers and people also remember. If you think that it is about the nonliving pictures that is fine. Baba has said that nonliving memorials are remembrance of the living beings.

I think you have missed the point in the second point. It says that he cannot play another part, apart from the one of establishment. But you claim he plays the role of Shankar - destruction.


= RESPONSE =

It has ALREADY been ADEQUATELY CLARIFIED on this forum earlier, that Bhakti is at FIRST UNADULTERATED, and THEN becomes ADULTERATED. Similarly, Knowledge ALSO follows the VERY SAME PATTERN, in Confluence Age -
as it SHOULD BE, in KEEPING with the SYSTEM of THINGS and PRINCIPLES, within this EWD!!!
THUS, it NATURALLY follows that the CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED non-living memorials of 'Tamopradhan Bhakti' or DEGRADED DEVOTION, represent the DEGRADED remembrance of 'DEGRADED Living Beings', in Confluence Age, who are instrumental to carry out the CORRESPONDING 'shooting' of same, by propagating the CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED, REVERSED advanced knowledge, formulated by MISINTERPRETING, MISREPRESENTING & MISAPPROPRIATING the Pure Versions of God, to be in ACCURATE CONSONANCE with THOSE CORRESPONDING CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED non-living memorials of 'Tamopradhan Bhakti' or DEGRADED DEVOTION - ALL, PERFECTLY, AS PER DRAMA PLAN, OF COURSE - NOTHING NEW, AT ALL!!!

"He cannot play another part ..." has TWO DISTINCT, Pure implications -
ONE - Brahma Baba CANNOT play another part through ANOTHER IMPURE corporeal body in Confluence Age; and
TWO - Brahma Baba CANNOT play another part through ANOTHER PURE corporeal body in G A - UNTIL he COMPLETES his scheduled assignments of ESTABLISHMENT, in Confluence Age, which OBVIOUSLY INCLUDES the task of TRANSFORMATION (or destruction, from a 'Kaliyugi', body-conscious perspective). The task of ESTABLISHMENT CANNOT be considered to have been ACCOMPLISHED, WITHOUT the SIMULTANEOUS accomplishment of the ESSENTIAL task of TRANSFORMATION (or DESTRUCTION); hence accomplishment of ESTABLISHMENT, ESSENTIALLY ENTAILS the SIMULTANEOUS accomplishment of TRANSFORMATION (or DESTRUCTION), AS WELL! The TWO have to ESSENTIALLY go HAND-in-HAND!

As already HIGHLIGHTED earlier, on this forum, there can be NO ARGUMENT, DEBATE or DISCUSSION with ANYONE who VOLUNTARILY CHOOSES to ADAMANTLY or ARROGANTLY STICK to ONE's OWN INTERPRETATION or MISINTERPRETATION of the VERY SAME Pure Version of God - since that would be a PURE WASTE of TIME, for ALL CONCERNED! Rather than that, what ACTUALLY needs to be appreciated is that the VERY SAME Pure Version of God can be INTERPRETED or MIS-INTERPRETED, in ACCORDANCE with the RESPECTIVE or RELEVANT PROMINENT roles, which SPECIFIC souls have to play in the Day or Night of the Cycle! As such, concerned souls have the FULL FREEDOM to abide by the particular interpretation of their OWN CHOICE, and NEED NOT consider that the interpretation of ANOTHER is a THREAT to them, which they NEED to REFUTE, under ANY circumstances! This latter aspect needs to be avoided, such that BOTH the MAJOR CATEGORIES of INTERPRETATIONS or MISINTERPRETATIONS can be APPRECIATED in their proper perspective, as pertaining to SPECIFIC souls, who have to enact SPECIFIC roles, in SPECIFIC TIME PERIODS of the Cycle, within this EWD or SPIRITUAL MATRIX!

sita
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 28 Sep 2016

It has ALREADY been ADEQUATELY CLARIFIED on this forum earlier, that Bhakti is at FIRST UNADULTERATED, and THEN becomes ADULTERATED. Similarly, Knowledge ALSO follows the VERY SAME PATTERN, in Confluence Age -
as it SHOULD BE, in KEEPING with the SYSTEM of THINGS and PRINCIPLES, within this EWD!!!
THUS, it NATURALLY follows that the CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED non-living memorials of 'Tamopradhan Bhakti' or DEGRADED DEVOTION, represent the DEGRADED remembrance of 'DEGRADED Living Beings', in Confluence Age, who are instrumental to carry out the CORRESPONDING 'shooting' of same, by propagating the CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED, REVERSED advanced knowledge, formulated by MISINTERPRETING, MISREPRESENTING & MISAPPROPRIATING the Pure Versions of God, to be in ACCURATE CONSONANCE with THOSE CORRESPONDING CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED non-living memorials of 'Tamopradhan Bhakti' or DEGRADED DEVOTION - ALL, PERFECTLY, AS PER DRAMA PLAN, OF COURSE - NOTHING NEW, AT ALL!!!-
So the images of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar on the path of Bhakti correspond to degraded living beings?
"He cannot play another part ..." has TWO DISTINCT, Pure implications -
ONE - Brahma Baba CANNOT play another part through ANOTHER IMPURE corporeal body in Confluence Age; and
Please, note the point is from an Avyakt Vani.

mbbhat
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 29 Sep 2016

sita wrote:"People also remember Brahma, Vishnu [and] Shankar. They are certainly visible through these eyes." (Mu.19.08.73, middle of pg.1)

Here it is said that Shankar can be seen through these eyes.
Good point, but already explained by another member. I also believe the same.
"The part of Brahma in the task of establishment is fixed till the end. Until the task of establishment is completed, the part of the soul who has become the instrument (Prajapita Brahma) will not be completed. He can’t play another part till then. The part of the World Father of completing the creation of the new world is fixed in the drama. Only Brahma is famous for creating all the dynasties of the human creation. So he is praised as the Great Great Grandfather. Only the state, place and speed have changed, but the part of Brahma is the same even now." (A.V. 30.06.74, middle of pg.83)

Here it is said that the role of establishment of Brahma is fixed there till the end and he cannot play another part. If someone claims Brahma plays the part of Shankar - it is wrong.
I have read the Murli point long before. I will have to read once more to give full comment.
But, it is not a great issue. It mostly just means - "B baba can neither return to Paramdham, nor take physical birth as Krishna, till that role is completed. No one else can take seat of Brahma, it is fixed.
B Baba is such a stable, dedicated and fully active soul who would be instrumental in the part of creation from day one till end of Conf Age"
.

BTW- The PBK argument is- there are many Brahmas. They also split to 33 yrs. - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51923#p51923

In PBK view- part of Brahma has changed. Their main Brahma (Kamala Devi) had left their Yagya. Their another Brahma (Dixit) - his part was not at all FIXED. It had got INTERRUPTED from 1942 till 1969/76.

In their OWN view- part of another Brahma (DLR) also has got changed. They believe initially - DLR was not instrument of God - till 1947. He was instrument/Chariot from 1947 till 1969. They believe DLR is not Chariot after 1969.
They further believe- till 1947, the entire Yagya was in control of PBK mothers. Now, after 1969, DLR creates eclipse on the PBk mother. So, words of most beloved Almighty Baba - the part of Brahma is the same even now- does not fit even to a minutest extent, as per PBK philosophy.

So-when PBKs quote some Murli points claiming they SUPPORT AIVV, they lose much more than what they claim, is it not?

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