BKs and PBKs have the same aim ? Angels or Dieties

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bansy
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BKs and PBKs have the same aim ? Angels or Dieties

Post by bansy » 04 Jun 2006

This topic applies to BKs and PBKs :

Don't BKs and PBKs ultimately have the same objectives ?
is not the first step is to become angels (farista) then dieties (devta) ?

I recall somewhere being said (someone can quote it more precisely) that it only takes a second to change from human to deity. Doesn't that mean the angel stage can be skipped ? Or how long does the angelic stage for a BK/PBK last ?

How does the soul of Brahma Baba become an diety ? is not 'it' now doing subtle angelic duties (albeit via the body of Dadi Gulzar, or via the body of the PBK Yagya Mother ?).
is not an angel 100% complete (purity) in the Confluence Age, whereas a diety is 100% complete in the Golden Age ?


I've seemed to have raised several Qs above that may need seperate churning on each, go ahead and split it. Yet it has all got to do with the overall aim of BKs and PBKs.

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aimée
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Post by aimée » 05 Jun 2006

Dear Bansy,
For me, and I am not sure about it at all. Angels are the ones who do service through a subtle body. The Advance Party has three groups: The rudra mala or PBK, who have left (or been chucked out from) the BK path, and follow the teachings of ShivBaba in Virendra Dev Dixit's Chariot. The Vijay mala, the BK who are supposed to come at the end when the all knowledge is going to be revealed, and the BK (mainly, and maybe PBK but I am not sure) who have left the body, there are more and more of them, who are called inspiration party, and enter the rudra mala to instill enthousiasm and help them accomplish tasks practically. Those angels (from the inspiration party) take the advance knowledge at the same time, and would become the children born of the first deities of Sangamyug, the first generation of the Golden Age, along with Radhe (Om Radhe Mama) and Krishna (Dada Lekhraj).

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Post by andrey » 05 Jun 2006

Only ShivBaba can make human beings into deities. We cannot make this ourselves or one another. And we should become this here, now, because if we leave the body where will these sanskars come from in the next birth. We should put these sanskars now in the Confluence Age. So first ShivBaba should be present, or will this calpa we miss the aim? Secondly whom will he do deities through. Through the highest deity /like engineers through engineer, brahmins through Brahma etc/

Amongs all the deities Brahma Vishnu, Shankar are the highest, and amongs the, Shankar is said to be the great deity. So through him brahmins are made into deities. It is the second mashinary. The first has been from human beings to Brahmins /through Brahma/.

Shankar is also said a subtle angel. Angels are those who don't have connection with the corporeal world. They are exclusively devoted to subtle thinking and churning. Baba says first it comes the salvation of the soul, then the body. It is that we think of knowledge only and not the material world that is the sign of beginning of salvation. Angels are not worshipped in India. Deities are worshipped in India that are corporeal. Yes, i suppose angel is a transit stage that does not last long. It is when one is connected to only one God. Then deities have a relationship of mother, Father, brother, sister.

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Post by andrey » 05 Jun 2006

In the Murlis it is said, if you ask Baba he can tell you what status will you claim if you leave the body now. The answer is one will claim a status worth a few pennies, because the body will be small, and one will not be able to study at all and make effort when one has to.

Now we record the sanskars of making fast effort, easy effort, one step of courage with 1000 steps of help. But Baba should be practically here to observe who maintains courage, will he give help from up above? How? No. He will just be here for us. And what kind of help will he give? Will he give extra tuition or extra attention. The way we remember him the same way he remembers us. Remmberance begets rememberence. The more the soul remembers him, the more he remembers this soul. He also say he remembers serviceable children better, but who is he? Is this not selfish. Yes, Prajapita is selfish the more one works for his benefit, naturally the remembereance comes, because he makes effort and has a reward. But we souls remember whilst we are in bodies. In Paramdham there is no matter of rememberence. Here we are in corporeal bodies. So he remembers also whilst in corporeal body. But the one who does not do any effort and hs no reward will his rememberance be any less to anyone? So whom should we remember. we should remember both, because when they combine there is benefit. Otherwise Shiva is just a point, Prajapita is not known to anyone. So deities and anges are all from the Confluence Age and are the aim of the BKs and PBKs.

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Post by bansy » 05 Jun 2006

Sigh. Let's try to get back to topic :

Thanks for the reply Aimee. Yes the rudramala (good at Yaad and Gyan who'll receive the kingship) and the vijamala (good at dharna and service and will be queens, and have a higher level of purity).

I was given the definition of Devata, i.e. Deity means the one, who gives. And what is to be given ?
-Vibrations of peace, purity, happiness and power to the desirous souls through our mind.
-Sweetness and encouragement through our words.
-Virtues through our actions.
-Purity through our vision.

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Post by aimée » 06 Jun 2006

I like this definition>
Baba (through Virendra Dev Dixit) says that we should follow brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani), the way he behaved with the children, with love, etc.

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Post by bansy » 10 Jun 2006

Yes, sometimes it's simpler to BE who we should be, rather than always STUDY on who we should be.

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Post by clay » 10 Jun 2006

is not following Baba Brahma in his actions of sweetness and love etc just half of the story. My take on this is that to follow the Father is to get the balance of love and law.

In a recent clarification Baba(Virendra Dev Dixit) told us that Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) had suffered all his life because all the time he had had to be so sweet to the children. I was really quite shocked to hear this ,but it makes sense when you think of the part he is yet to play.

The children who were closest to Baba Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) in the old days are busy revealing themselves instead of the Father, amd many points of Shrimat are disregarded. Hence the bottled up anger will be unleashed when he plays the part of Dharamraj. Yet ,he is still so sweet to them.

Our aim as a student of Raj Yoga is to change from being an ordinary man to becoming Naryan/Naryani, we all know that Murli quote.That is the balance of love and law.

So doesn't it make it confusing to look at the picture of Baba Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) every day in the BK centre, because our aim is not to become like him or leave the body as he did. But when it comes to just the love and sweetness of the mother role, then no one could have played the part better.

The BKs say follow Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) but is not that because they have no recognition of the Father.

I wonder why the picture of Lakshmi and Naryan is not displayed, after all that is the aim and objective given in the Murli.


Good Wishes

Clay

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Post by fluffy bunny » 10 Jun 2006

clay wrote:The children who were closest to Baba Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) in the old days are busy revealing themselves instead of the Father, amd many points of Shrimat are disregarded. Hence the bottled up anger will be unleashed when he plays the part of Dharamraj. Yet ,he is still so sweet to them.

I wonder why the picture of Lakshmi and Naryan is not displayed, after all that is the aim and objective given in the Murli.
If I may add something from an ex-BK point of view. If this is all true, I think he will be suprised by the " bottled up anger " he gets back from a few ex-BKs for the mess he encouraged us too make of our lives on the basis of the wrong and dishonest information he pumped out as " Truth " ! Although I doubt there is any anger there, my understanding of Dharamraj is a little bit different.

As far as BKs " revealling themselves ", yes I thought it was interesting when I discovered that the BKWSU had started a " Janki Foundation ".

What the hell is that all about!?! Where in their scriptures does it say to glorify one and another in such a way [ especially when the final results are not in ... ]. Bad enough it was Janki that brought the whole Lekhraj photo thing in. Here it has gone one step further to " name and fame " herself - or at least allow others to " name and fame " on her behalf.


I figure that the Lakshmi and Narayan pictures have been removed from the West because they have absolutely no symbolic relevance and no one has bothered to attempt to try and translate them. The Hindu originals was gross, ugly, uncultured, unappealling to us and stank of Hindu Bhakti as much as the burnt fenugreek seeds in the dahl did.

As with all the other Hindu based imagery, some of which was laughable or unacceptable to Western sensibilities [ e.g. Swastikas and cats on rockets with Communist hats on ] they were gradually removed as more modern - and watered down - Western illustrations arose out of the BK family.

They might have said something to the Gujerati villagers but to Westerners they were a big put off mostly, e.g fat and greasy speaks of wealth and power in India where a majority of peoples still suffer malnutrition. In the West, fat and greasy symbolises selfish, ignorant and greedy. Likewise round noses, full lips and big breasts are all symbolic of sensuality and not spirituality. Our dieties look a little different !

Personally, I prefer the originals because they were more honest about the organisation. They may even have symbolic meaning that was never explained. All that still exists as leopards do not change their spots that qickly, it is just hidden behind a slightly more chic veneer.

What efforts are the PBKs making to create a universal understanding of their knowledge or are foreigners to India expect to convert to Hindusim forst before taking on Advanced Knowledge?

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Post by arjun » 10 Jun 2006

Dear ex-l,
Om Shanti. You wrote:
"Personally, I prefer the originals because they were more honest about the organisation. They may even have symbolic meaning that was never explained. All that still exists as leopards do not change their spots that qickly, it is just hidden behind a slightly more chic veneer.

What efforts are the PBKs making to create a universal understanding of their knowledge or are foreigners to India expect to convert to Hindusim forst before taking on Advanced Knowledge?"


I appreciate your preference for the original pictures. Yes, they do contain many symbolic meanings which were never explained by the BKs, because they could not understand it or were never explained during the time of Brahma Baba.

ShivBaba in his new avatar/Chariot is explaining those hidden meanings in such a way that it should appeal to the Indians and Westerners in the same way. Of course it would be appreciated more by the BKs than the non-BKs because the BKs have already a basic knowledge of the pictures.

It is not at all necessary for the foreigners to convert to Hinduism before taking the advance knowledge. In fact it is not even necessary for anyone to be a BK before taking the advance knowledge. There are many PBKs, who have never been a BK, but who have a better grasp on the advance knowledge than any other PBK. Of course, such a tendency is explained with the reply that such PBKs might have been a BK in their past life and hence grasped the advance knowledge as soon as they got an introduction in whichever way.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by aimée » 10 Jun 2006

The problem with the BK institution is they often say follow Brahma Baba, but how many of them really follow(ed) him? How many are humble, loving, tolerant...? Baba did not encourage hierarchy, neither pomp and show etc.
He was unfortunately too sweet, and his children litterally broke his heart. The actual ShivBaba in Virendra Dev Dixit still says follow Brahma Baba the way he was (but not too sweet to the extend that others control you), and follow the instructions of the Father. The sweetness of the mother and the study with the Father/teacher, this is a balanced way.

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Post by bansy » 10 Jun 2006

actual ShivBaba in Virendra Dev Dixit still says follow Brahma Baba the way he was (but not too sweet to the extend that others control you),
Yes, BKs are confused with "Follow Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani)", some take it guru-like.

So how does ShivBaba in Virendra Dev Dixit suggest PBKs to Follow Brahma Baba. Are specific directions given different to BKs ?

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Post by aimée » 10 Jun 2006

He basically says that no one could say that Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) did not give love to them. Even seeing him a few minutes, everyone was very touched by his love. He also says not to follow Shankar, who has the part of destruction (meaning Shiva +Krishna + Ram), so he will have to be pretty tough. Because the PBK are often very strong minded, this is and encouragement to become sweeter. they have king like sanskars in them.
However, I have been in PBK ashrams, and in Kampil, and I was welcomed with so much sweetness, real sweetness, no hierarchy, I have never felt so accepted in my life, so relaxed. For me they followed dharna in a much more accurate way that in the BK world.
The difference with the BK teaching I supposed is the emphasis put on the churning, the teachings that Baba (in Virendra Dev Dixit) now gives is the clarification of the Sakar Murlis and Avyakt Vanis. Put on this light, now they make much more sense and it is a real pleasure to discover them again. Through the study and churning, one can be purified, partly I think because one understands more and more who God is, his task, how he comes, what ShivBaba means, this is the key to everything. If we did understand, really, who he is, then, I think dharna would become unnecessary.

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Post by arjun » 12 Jun 2006

Sister Bansy wrote:
So how does ShivBaba in Virendra Dev Dixit suggest PBKs to Follow Brahma Baba. Are specific directions given different to BKs ?
PBKs can follow Brahma Baba by reading the history of the Yagya as available in the BK literature, or through the teachings/hints given in Sakar Murlis and Avyakt Vanis.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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