Trimurti Shiva?

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john
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Trimurti Shiva?

Post by john » 01 Aug 2007

If God Father Shiva only plays parts through two chariots according to advance knowledge, then why is he referred to as Trimurti (three forms), why not Bimurti (two forms) or some word which means two parts?

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Tri-murti means three-in-one

Post by new world » 01 Aug 2007

Bro John, Hindi translation of Tri-murti means three-in-one & not three separate forms. Thus Tri-murti is singular noun. Three separate forms (better to say idols) may be translated in Hindi as 'Tri-murtiyan' (plural noun). Here 'Tri-murti Shiva' is said & not 'Tri-murtiyan Shhva'. This means that God (RamShivbaba) when incarnates, his role is the superb combination of the three idols - Brahma, Vishnu & Shankar.

It's also true that separate three idols - Brahma, Vishnu & Shankar also exist. But Tri-murti Shiv (RamShivbaba) means three-in-one part-holder. OK?

Arjunbhai, advance knowledge considers Bharatmata as the third idol - Vishnu. Now according to PBKs Jagdamba is superior to Bharatmata, then why Bharatmata is considered as Vishnu - the third idol & why not Jagdamba???

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Re: Tri-murti means three-in-one

Post by john » 01 Aug 2007

new_world wrote:Bro John, Hindi translation of Tri-murti means three-in-one & not three separate forms. Thus Tri-murti is singular noun. Three separate forms (better to say idols) may be translated in Hindi as 'Tri-murtiyan' (plural noun). Here 'Tri-murti Shiva' is said & not 'Tri-murtiyan Shhva'. This means that God (RamShivbaba) when incarnates, his role is the superb combination of the three idols - Brahma, Vishnu & Shankar. It's also true that separate three idols - Brahma, Vishnu & Shankar also exist. But Tri-murti Shiv (RamShivbaba) means three-in-one part-holder. OK?
Thank you for the translation, I checked the wiki definition and it said three forms.
Wiki Quote:
The Trimurti (English: "Three forms"; Sanskrit: trim?rti) is a concept in Hinduism "in which the cosmic functions of creation, maintenance, and destruction are personified by the forms of Brahm?, Vi??u, and ?iva respectively."[1][2] These three deities have been called "the Hindu triad"[3] or the "Great Trinity"
Another definition;
Trimurti, meaning "having three forms", is the term applied to the three main Hindu gods: Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.
Why do you call God as Ramshivbaba, do you mean God is made up of two souls?

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Post by arjun » 03 Aug 2007

new_world wrote:Arjunbhai, Advanced Knowledge considers Bharatmata as the third idol - Vishnu. Now according to PBKs Jagdamba is superior to Bharatmata, then why Bharatmata is considered as Vishnu - the third idol & why not Jagdamba???
Bharatmata has a balance of love and law and hence plays the role of Vishnu/Vaishnavi Devi. Although Jagdamba is superior to her, but she supports deities as well as the demons, while Bharatmata gives sustenance only to the deities/deity souls among Brahmins. Even in the path of worship it is a well known fact that Vishnu helps only the deities, while both deities and demons go to seek help from both Shankar and Jagdamba.
John wrote:If God Father Shiva only plays parts through two chariots according to Advanced Knowledge, then why is he referred to as Trimurti (three forms), why not Bimurti (two forms) or some word which means two parts?

Although God Shiva does not enter into the body of the soul which plays the role of Vishnu/Vaishnavi Devi, but He does get the task of sustenance of the new Confluence-Aged heaven done through her. Moreover, when Vishnu gets revealed, it will be a combination of the Confluence-Aged Narayan (Shankar/Prajapita Brahma) and Confluence-Aged Lakshmi (Vaishnavi Devi).

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by john » 03 Aug 2007

arjun wrote:Although God Shiva does not enter into the body of the soul which plays the role of Vishnu/Vaishnavi Devi, but He does get the task of sustenance of the new Confluence-Aged heaven done through her. Moreover, when Vishnu gets revealed, it will be a combination of the Confluence-Aged Narayan (Shankar/Prajapita Brahma) and Confluence-Aged Lakshmi (Vaishnavi Devi).
OK, but for me something doesn't seem right with saying Trimurti Shiva has only two chariots.

What is the relevance of saying Trimurti and using that to explain that there is another incarnation of Shiva, i.e. Shankar? Again the logic seems ill fitting.

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Post by andrey » 29 Aug 2007

Dear brother BKDimOK,

In the Murli, it is said Trimurti Shivjayanti. That means that there are three figures and when all the three are revealed then we can celebrate this birthday. But if we have only one figure, then we cannot celebrate. So these three figures have to be together at one and the same time, but you point towards Brahma from the past. Indeed, he plays a part of Brahma - Big mother Jagadamba, but he should be present here now somewhere.

Regarding Vishnu, it is said in the Murli that Vishnu is the combined from of Lakshmi and Narayan, so if you say that Dadi Gulzar is Lakshmi then it is something new.

Regarding Shankar, you may sign as Shankar, but just taking the name is not enough. It is said that name is given for the work done, so maybe you first should do the task of Shankar then take the name.

In the coat of arms of India also there are three lions (representing the Trimurti). They are together side by side, and not one after another (in time).

Dear brother John,

Yes, the Trimurti should be Trimurti. In the Murli, it is said that we can know if Shiva has entered by the knowledge that is given, but Baba (via Virendra Dev Dixit) has said that the third murti is not for giving knowledge so it cannot be proved, but there can be entry for practical task, but even if there is not then the soul is made instrumental and that should be enough.

Because the Supreme Soul already has his chosen permanent Chariot to work through, there is no need to leave it, or adopt any other at the same time he can continue to work through it.

To the question of the entering of the Supreme Soul in the third personality Baba (via Virendra Dev Dixit) gives the example that the husband, the image, gets imprinted in the heart of the wife, he enters her heart and her mind, she thinks of him continuously, he enters in such way.

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Post by bkdimok » 30 Aug 2007

andrey wrote:Dear Brother BKDimOK,In the Murli, it is said Trimurti Shivjayanti.
1.That means that there are three figures and when all the three are revealed then we can celebrate this birthday. But if we have only one figure, then we cannot celebrate. So these three figures have to be together at one and the same time, but you point towards Brahma from the past.
2.Indeed, he plays a part of Brahma - Big mother Jagadamba, but he should be present here now somewhere.
3.Regarding Vishnu, it is said in the Murli that Vishnu is the combined from of Lakshmi and Narayan, so if you say that Dadi Gulzar is Lakshmi then it is something new.
4.Regarding Shankar, you may sign as Shankar, but just taking the name is not enough. It is said that name is given for the work done, so maybe you first should do the task of Shankar then take the name.
Om Shanti.
  • 1. It is your own view and your own understanding. If you'll give me exactly quote from exact Murli, I'll give you my view (if you really interested in it)
    2. It is PBK's point of view. From BK's and my own point of view BB played role of Brahma. The role of Jagadamba was played by another soul (Mama). This soul is playing her role now also. This role will be emerged ar the end.
    3. Where did you see that I said that Dadi Gulzar is Laksmi? Please stop manipulating.
    Soul of Dadi Gulzar will be one of Narayans in the Golden Age. From my point of view Vishnu is the simbol. So there is combination of Dadi Gulzar's body(women body) and BB's fine body(man body).
    4. I did not take this name by my own will. My (BK Dmitry) role is to stay in a detached observer stage. So I am trying to achieve that stage now.
With regards, Shankar

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Post by andrey » 30 Aug 2007

"Trinity Supreme Father Shiva only is the bestower of knowledge and salvager of all. Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are born together. It is not just Shivjayanti [Shiva's birthday] but Trimurti Shivjayanti." [Mu. 27-09-75 Pg-3]
"Children you write Trinity Shiva's birthday. But three personalities are not in existence now. You say that ShivBaba creates the new world through Brahma. Hence, Brahma should also be present in the corporeal form. However, where are Vishnu and Shankar now? So how can you call it as Trinity? These are matters to be understood. Trinity means Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. You are the ones who know the secret of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar." [Mu 18-2-76 Pg-1]
Father comes & gives the pot of nectar of knowledge to these mothers so that they transform human beings into deities. He has not given it to Lakshmi. Now this (Brahma) is Jagdamba (World Mother). (1.1.84, pg.2)

Somewhere else for which i have no quote it is said that in fact Brahma is your mother, but body is male. That's why he is not worhipped on the path of bakti as Brahma, but in a female body he is worhsipped as Jagadamba.

There is no manipulation rearding Vishnu. Lakshmi should be included in the form of Vishnu. It is said so in the Murli. Combined form of Lakshmi and Narayan is called Vishnu.

Dear br ex-l,
Supreme Father has not created the symbol. Those who have created do not know, put or extract different meanings. The same way as film songs are used in the beginning of the Murli but in them points of knowledge are revealed. Baba (via Virendra Dev Dixit) also says that in the Trimurti there is in fact only one lion.

The chakra called swaradshanchakra is also show in the hands of Krishna through which he has cut the heads of the devils in Hinduism.

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Post by bkdimok » 30 Aug 2007

andrey wrote:1.Somewhere else for which I have no quote it is said that in fact Brahma is your mother, but body is male. That's why he is not worhipped on the path of bakti as Brahma, but in a female body he is worhsipped as Jagadamba.
2.There is no manipulation rearding Vishnu. Lakshmi should be included in the form of Vishnu. It is said so in the Murli. Combined form of Lakshmi and Narayan is called Vishnu.
Om Shanti.
  • 1. Yes, you are right. BB is also caled Jagadamba. But in the same time Mama is Jagadamba (Saraswati also).
    2. It's not for us to decide what should be included in the form of CoA Vishnu. I only explained my point of view. Dadi Gulzar will be one of Narayanas of the Golden Age. She is 1 of 8.
Shankar

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Post by bkdimok » 01 Sep 2007

andrey wrote:We cannot decide who is who. I have just quoted how it is described in the Murli - Vishnu, then we can judge ourselves. However it seem that you say who is who - who will come where and what will he become. In the Murli it is said that Baba (SivBaba) would not declare or write on the board.
Om Shanti. I express my thoughts. I am not claiming that I am Shiva.

With regards, Shankar.

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Post by new knowledge » 17 Sep 2007

new_world wrote:Arjunbhai, Advanced Knowledge considers Bharatmata as the third idol - Vishnu. Now according to PBKs Jagdamba is superior to Bharatmata, then why Bharatmata is considered as Vishnu - the third idol & why not Jagdamba???
arjun wrote:Bharatmata has a balance of love and law and hence plays the role of Vishnu/Vaishnavi Devi. Although Jagdamba is superior to her, but she supports deities as well as the demons, while Bharatmata gives sustenance only to the deities/deity souls among Brahmins. Even in the path of worship it is a well known fact that Vishnu helps only the deities, while both deities and demons go to seek help from both Shankar and Jagdamba.
But here I am not interested whether Jagdamba is Vishnu or not; the central theme of my query is why she is not included in one of the idols of Trimurti. In one of your replies, you've quoted that the night of Brahma is related to Jagdamba Kamla. In other words, Jagdamba Kamla Devi is viewed as Brahma. As PBKs have given her a chance to be entitled as Brahma, then why she shouldn't be included as Brahma idol in Trimurti, though she may not be included as Vishnu idol in Trimurti.

Now let's formulate verious combinations of souls to be included in Trimurti.

1) Lekhraj (Brahma), Vedanti (Vishnu) & Virendra Dev Dixit (Shankar):
But in this combination Kamla Devi (viewed as Brahma & Jagdamba) is omitted, though she is supposed to be superior to both Lekhraj & Vedanti. Now in BKWSU generally it's believed that the three idols of Trimurti Shiv are superior to every soul. Also in the hierarchy of souls, the incorporeal Shiv is placed at the uppermost stratum, in the next stratum are shown Trimurti souls & then lower category souls in lower strata.

Thus there is no any other soul, including Kamla Devi, between incorporeal Shiv & Trimurti souls, as she is not in Trimurti as mentioned in this combination. But this is contradictory, as Kamla Devi is believed to be superior to Lekhraj & Vedanti. Now where in this hierarchical configuration of souls is shown the soul of Kamla Devi? And 'to be the first three human souls' is that qualification to be in Trimurti, then why Kamla Devi - who possess that qualification - is disqualified to be a part of Trimurti? And what are merits, qualifications or criteria to be a part of Trimurti according to which Kamla Devi is omitted?

2) Kamla (Brahma), Vedanti (Vishnu) & Virendra Dev Dixit (Shankar):
This combination goes in contrast with PBK consideration that Vishnu stage is superior to Brahma steg & here Kamla (Brahma) is considered superior to Vedanti (Vishnu),

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Post by new knowledge » 18 Sep 2007

Here we are discussing about Kamla Devi & Vedanti & about their possibility to be included in Trimurti Shiva.

Advance knowledge believe that Bharatmata (Vedanti) will play the role of Confluence Aged Lakshmi. And Confluence Aged Lakshmi-Narayan are considered as highest peak of humanity. Nobody other than Virendra Dev Dixit & Vedanti will achieve this status. But Jagdamba Kamla is believed to be superior to Vedanti. So in ranking, her possition should be between Narayan (Virendra Dev Dixit) & Lakshmi (Vedanti). But in the picture of Lakshmi-Narayan, such a middle position fnr the future role of Kamla Devi is not shown. Then what's her role in the Confluence Aged heaven? Her role should be superior to the role of Lakshmi.
Is there any such position between Confluence Aged Narayan & Lakshmi?

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Post by arjun » 18 Sep 2007

new_knowledge wrote:But here I am not interested whether Jagdamba is Vishnu or not; the central theme of my query is why she is not included in one of the idols of Trimurti. In one of your replies, you've quoted that the night of Brahma is related to Jagdamba Kamla. In other words, Jagdamba Kamla Devi is viewed as Brahma. As PBKs have given her a chance to be entitled as Brahma, then why she shouldn't be included as Brahma idol in Trimurti, though she may not be included as Vishnu idol in Trimurti.
Dear brother,

Om Shanti. For anyone who has been a PBK, it is the basics of advance knowledge that Jagdamba is included in the Trimurti as Brahma.
new_knowledge wrote:Advanced Knowledge believe that Bharatmata (Vedanti) will play the role of Confluence Aged Lakshmi. And Confluence Aged Lakshmi-Narayan are considered as highest peak of humanity. Nobody other than Veerendra Dev Dixit & Vedanti will achieve this status. But Jagdamba Kamla is believed to be superior to Vedanti. So in ranking, her possition should be between Narayan (Veerendra Dev Dixit) & Lakshmi (Vedanti). But in the picture of Lakshmi-Narayan, such a middle position fnr the future role of Kamla Devi is not shown. Then what's her role in the Confluence Aged heaven? Her role should be superior to the role of Lakshmi. Is there any such position between Confluence Aged Narayan & Lakshmi?
Jagdamba is the world mother, while the Confluence-Aged Lakshmi is the mother of only the deities. So, her position is higher than Confluence-Aged Lakshmi (Queen). Jagdamba plays the role of Rajmata (Queen mother).

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by bkdimok » 18 Sep 2007

Om Shanti. Let me express my point of view on Trimurti.
Trimurti is the symbol. So it can be applyied to the Confluence Age as well as to the Cycle.

So in the Copper Age:
  • Brahma - Shiva through Brahma Baba's corporeal body
    Vishnu - Shiva through Brahma Baba's fine body and Dady Gulzar's corporeal body
    Shankar - Shiva through Dmitry Kolotygin's (aka BKdimok) corporeal body.
In the circle:
  • Through Brahma Baba Shiva creates Golden Age
    Through Vishnu (Lakshmi+Narayan) He sustains it
    Through BKdimok's body (in which I am also present) He will (somehow) destroy this old world (maybe not in literal meaning, because in literal meaning it will be destroyed by nature)
With regards, Shankar

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Post by new knowledge » 18 Sep 2007

new_knowledge wrote:But here I am not interested whether Jagdamba is Vishnu or not; the central theme of my query is why she is not included in one of the idols of Trimurti. In one of your replies, you've quoted that the night of Brahma is related to Jagdamba Kamla. In other words, Jagdamba Kamla Devi is viewed as Brahma. As PBKs have given her a chance to be entitled as Brahma, then why she shouldn't be included as Brahma idol in Trimurti, though she may not be included as Vishnu idol in Trimurti.
arjun wrote:For anyone who has been a PBK, it is the basics of Advanced Knowledge that Jagdamba is included in the Trimurti as Brahma.
1) Who is this Jagdamba to whom you include in Trimurti as Brahma? - Lekhraj BrahmaBaba? Or respected mother Kamla Devi?
2) What is/are the best possible combination/conbinations of Trimurti souls considering these criteria,

a) Trimurti souls are supposed (by most of BKWSU cults) to be the highest human souls, i.e, nobody should be superior to them &
b) according to PBKs, Vishnu should be middle stage, i.e, Vishnu should be superior to Brahma but inferior to Shankar.

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