BKWSU asking for Virendra Dev Dixit's proof he is ShivBaba

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BKWSU asking for Virendra Dev Dixit's proof he is ShivBaba

Post by fluffy bunny » 16 Aug 2008

pbkindiana wrote:Also around 7 or 8 years ago, the BK HQ asked Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit to proof that he is ShivBaba.
Very interesting, can you tell us more about this event, the reason behind it and his response?

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Re: BKWSU asking for Veerendra Dev Dixit's proof he is ShivBaba

Post by arjun » 16 Aug 2008

pbkindiana wrote:Also around 7 or 8 years ago, the BK HQ asked Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit to proof that he is ShivBaba.
ex-l wrote:Very interesting, can you tell us more about this event, the reason behind it and his response?
I am not aware of any such event in the past. It could be possible that some senior BK might have asked for proofs from PBKs during personal meetings. Anyways, it is for pbkindiana to clarify.

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Re: BKWSU asking for Veerendra Dev Dixit's proof he is ShivBaba

Post by pbkindiana » 21 Aug 2008

Dear ex-l and arjun Bhai,

When I visited ShivBaba in the year 2001 or 2002, one sister told me that Baba Virendra Dev Dixit received a letter from the BK HQ to declare himself as ShivBaba. ShivBaba (via Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) replied that he doesn't need to reveal himself but his children will reveal him. And ShivBaba (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) admitted that indeed He had received a letter from the BKs when I met Him and verified the sister's statements.

Om Shanti -- indie.

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The value of independent third party (external) evidence

Post by fluffy bunny » 02 Sep 2008

Just to demonstrate the use and value of independent third party evidence. In a recent post, arjun copied the following quote from Virendra Dev Dixit.
VCD No. 779 Audio Cass.No.- 1265, dt.-10-10-07 at Bahalwa (Haryana) Clarification of Murli dated 30-1-68 - Part-III

What was there in the beginning? Was there the foundation of Bhakti in the beginning of the Confluence Age or was there The Knowledge? There was the foundation of Bhakti. They used to come to the satsang [the spiritual gathering] and enter trance. They used to experience visions. Many experienced visions. Many gathered at Sindh-Hyderabad. So was there knowledge? They used to keep uttering the sound- om, om, om. In that case, was there the effort of going beyond sound/speech or was there the effort of coming into speech/sound like the devotees. There was the effort of coming into speech. Bhakti became the foundation. The devotees experience visions in Bhakti itself. So as there was no knowledge in the beginning, Ram failed.
From an older post quoting the biography of Justice Hardayal Hardy - a leader of the Delhi Bar then Chief Justice of the High Court of India who acted on behalf of Lekhraj Kirpalani in some of the many legal cases where the charge was of kidnapping and abduction.
Hardayal Hardy wrote:His knowledge of the religion was not very deep - even his grasp of the Bhagvad Gita was not something that would impress many educated and intelligent men but he knew the basic teachings and could explain them to the uneducated Bania women.
Hardayal Hardy was supporter and ally of Lekhraj Kirpalani and yet his witness, one we can accept as fairly reliable given his status, supports Virendra Dev Dixit's interpretation.

Interesting? Certainly interesting enough to go and seek out more.

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Re: BKWSU asking for Veerendra Dev Dixit's proof he is ShivBaba

Post by nivi » 07 Mar 2009

This reminds me of what is said in the Murli's about Ravan.. Ravan would frequntly ask Ram(god ) if he is god than why does he not prove he is god to him even though deep inside he knew it was god. Ravan loved to questions everything, and everyone because he was never satisfied, there was no love for god..

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Re: BKWSU asking for Veerendra Dev Dixit's proof he is ShivBaba

Post by shivsena » 08 Mar 2009

nivi_k wrote:This reminds me of what is said in the Murli's about Ravan.. Ravan would frequntly ask Ram(god ) if he is god than why does he not prove he is god to him even though deep inside he knew it was god. Ravan loved to questions everything, and everyone because he was never satisfied, there was no love for god..
What you have written about Ravan is never mentioned in any Murli; what you are saying are just anecdotes from Bhakti-marg. The question-answer sessions going on in Advance Party at present are hallmarks of Bhakti-marg and not Gyan-marg.

shivsena.

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Re: BKWSU asking for Veerendra Dev Dixit's proof he is ShivB

Post by mbbhat » 01 Aug 2012

pbkindiana wrote:Dear ex-l and arjun Bhai,
When I visited ShivBaba in the year 2001 or 2002, one Sister told me that Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit received a letter from the BK HQ to declare himself as ShivBaba. ShivBaba (via Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) replied that he doesn't need to reveal himself but his children will reveal him. And ShivBaba (Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) admitted that indeed He had received a letter from the BKs when I met Him and verified the Sister's statements.
Om Shanti -- indie.

So- Mr. Dixit does not wish to declare himself in open public, but needs answers for their EIGHT questions from BKWSU!

[BKWSU openly declares that Brahma Baba is Prajapita, but Mr. dixit does not declares it openly to public, but expects answers from BKWSU and now brings public also into the matter].

http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2364

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Re: BKWSU asking for Veerendra Dev Dixit's proof he is ShivB

Post by arjun » 02 Aug 2012

So- Mr. Dixit does not wish to declare himself in open public, but needs answers for their EIGHT questions from BKWSU!

[BKWSU openly declares that Brahma Baba is Prajapita, but Mr. dixit does not declares it openly to public, but expects answers from BKWSU and now brings public also into the matter].
This topic already discussed on forum. Those who declare themselves as God or medium of God are Hiranyakashyaps.

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Re: BKWSU asking for Veerendra Dev Dixit's proof he is ShivB

Post by mbbhat » 02 Aug 2012

Those who declare themselves as God or medium of God are Hiranyakashyaps
I think- the above is said to those (other than god and Chariot) who declare that they are either god or medium. Else- what is wrong if God declares that I am god? Do PBKs do such churnings (when they interpret in many different ways about Murli points), they should also think- why ShivBaba said so- is it not?

But- God had declared himself in Murlis that- I am shiv, god and have come in brahma and Brahma is the medium.

Now- if you say- the Murli is spoken to children of God and not to open public, then why not ShivBaba in Mr. Dixit declare at least in his VCDs openly as ShivBaba had declared through DL in Sakar Murlis?

Also- if that is not possible- then how come PBKs came to know that God is there in Mr. Dixit? Is it through preranaa (inspiration)?
SM 23-3-78(2):-Manmanaabhav. Mere bachche bano.Vah to PPB aur jagadamba hi kah sakte. APNE KO KOYI PPB BHI KAH NA SAKE. KITNA BHI JHOOTAA VESH BANAAVE PARANTU YAH BAATEIN SAMJHAA NA SAKE. Yah to ShivBaba hee samjhaate hain.

= Manmanaabhav. Become my children. Only Prajapita Brahma and Jagadamba can say so. No one can (else) can say that I am Prajapita Brahma. Of course, let them put false costume of PPB. But still they cannot explain these. ShivBaba only explains these.
Here Murli says- Prajapita brahma and Jagadamba can say- "Become my chilrden" . Now- is Mr. dixit and Kamala Devi ready to say so to open public?
ShivBaba (via Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) replied that he doesn't need to reveal himself but his children will reveal him.
Murli says- Main jo hun, jaisaa hun, khud batlaataa hun = Who am I, what am I, i only will tell you. But, here it is opposite or at least different?

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Re: BKWSU asking for Veerendra Dev Dixit's proof he is ShivB

Post by arjun » 02 Aug 2012

I think- the above is said to those (other than god and Chariot) who declare that they are either god or medium. Else- what is wrong if God declares that I am god? Do PBKs do such churnings (when they interpret in many different ways about Murli points), they should also think- why ShivBaba said so- is it not?

But- God had declared himself in Murlis that- I am Shiv, god and have come in Brahma and Brahma is the medium.

Now- if you say- the Murli is spoken to children of God and not to open public, then why not ShivBaba in Mr. Dixit declare at least in his VCD* openly as ShivBaba had declared through DL in Sakar Murlis?
If you are happy to believe Brahma Baba declaring himself as medium of God, then you can continue to have that belief. But don't expect that from Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. This topic has already been discussed in detail on this forum. So, I am sorry I cannot devote time to repeat the same, especially to you.
Also- if that is not possible- then how come PBKs came to know that God is there in Mr. Dixit? Is it through preranaa (inspiration)?
Murli says - How do you know whether Shiv is present in the Chariot or not? It is when He gives knowledge. So, based on the knowledge given through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit PBKs came to know that he is Chariot of Shiv.
Here Murli says- Prajapita Brahma and Jagadamba can say- "Become my chilrden" . Now- is Mr. dixit and Kamala Devi ready to say so to open public?
We have to become children of ShivBaba and not of Prajapita or Jagdamba. The giver of inheritance is Shiv through Prajapita.

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Re: BKWSU asking for Veerendra Dev Dixit's proof he is ShivB

Post by mbbhat » 02 Aug 2012

If you are happy to believe Brahma Baba declaring himself as medium of God, then you can continue to have that belief. But don't expect that from Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit. This topic has already been discussed in detail on this forum. So, I am sorry I cannot devote time to repeat the same, especially to you.
I did not mean Brahma Baba declared it. But meant that - he has right to declare. But Murli point says- brahma Baba baahar jaa nahin saktey = Brahma Baba cannot go outside (and say that I am media, I am media). but the children (BKs) had right to say to open public that god has come in brahma Baba and even Murli speaks directly that I(God) have come in Brahma.

So- I questioned that- Why not PBKs say openly to public that God has come in Mr. Dixit and/or why not god cannot declare in Murlis of PBKs (vaachaa through Mr. dixit).

Anyhow, if you are not interested, no need to reply. Let us see whether any pbk answers to the POINT?
Murli says - How do you know whether Shiv is present in the Chariot or not? It is when He gives knowledge. So, based on The Knowledge given through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit PBKs came to know that he is Chariot of Shiv.
Here- the question is- how did it happen first? Who is the first soul that recognized ShivBaba in dixit without ShivBaba declaring so? Do you have that versions? [What I mean is- pbs may give knowledge to others and convince them that ShivBaba is present in Dixit. That is OK.

But, how the faith sat on them? It is by PBKs' explanation to them, right? [Or does a pbk develops faith only by after coming in front of Mr. Dixit?]

Now- I am asking how that first soul in front of Mr. dixit came to know that God is present in that soul without ShivBaba (God) declaring so? Did Mr. dixit approached that soul or did that soul directly approached Mr. dixit and what was that first bhagavaanuvaach through Mr. dixit and the experience of that first soul in its own words? [Else- BKs believe that we understand God by the knowledge knowledge what we hear (Murli) , it it God directly speaks- that I have come in this.

now- if PBKs do not have such things (when their God is not directly saying even to them ), is it not responsibility of every pbk to know or verify from that first or few initial souls who got inspired from Mr. dixit?

Also- to know how faith is developed in them. - That is- how they realized God in Mr. Dixit? what were the words that gave them those feelings? - Else what the later PBKs who came to gyaan are just believing the hear says, is it not?

Because- some PBKs shows Murli point to another and says- See- in Murli it is said so ("Murli says - How do you know whether Shiv is present in the Chariot or not? It is when He gives knowledge")

another point- how many of those new soul/s who got inspired directly from ShivBaba through Dixit had been a BK?, etc , etc- all these should be known- is it not?

Because- if they had been BKs, who showed that Murli point to them? should be Mr. Dixit only - right? So- is it not God there directly declaring that- I am here and this is media?

so- it is very much important to know that whether god declared to the first PBKs directly or did they find those Murli points themselves?
We have to become children of ShivBaba and not of Prajapita or Jagdamba. The giver of inheritance is Shiv through Prajapita.
[/quote]
Don't you have two unlimited fathers and two unlimited mothers then?
Is Prajapita not Pita?

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Re: BKWSU asking for Veerendra Dev Dixit's proof he is ShivB

Post by arjun » 03 Aug 2012

So- I questioned that- Why not PBKs say openly to public that God has come in Mr. Dixit and/or why not god cannot declare in Murlis of PBKs (vaachaa through Mr. dixit).
We are declaring to the world that God is present in corporeal form by putting up stickers all over India asking 8 questions to BKs. But BKs like you are complaining all the time.
Here- the question is- how did it happen first? Who is the first soul that recognized ShivBaba in dixit without ShivBaba declaring so? Do you have that versions? [What I mean is- pbs may give knowledge to others and convince them that ShivBaba is present in Dixit. That is OK.

But, how the faith sat on them? It is by PBKs' explanation to them, right? [Or does a PBK develops faith only by after coming in front of Mr. Dixit?]

Now- I am asking how that first soul in front of Mr. dixit came to know that God is present in that soul without ShivBaba (God) declaring so? Did Mr. dixit approached that soul or did that soul directly approached Mr. dixit and what was that first bhagavaanuvaach through Mr. dixit and the experience of that first soul in its own words? [Else- BKs believe that we understand God by The Knowledge knowledge what we hear (Murli) , it it God directly speaks- that I have come in this.

now- if PBKs do not have such things (when their God is not directly saying even to them ), is it not responsibility of every PBK to know or verify from that first or few initial souls who got inspired from Mr. dixit?
I have already answered your doubt with the help of a Murli point. If you want a proof here it is:

"Brahmanon may jab kiski soul aati hai toh unkay bhi bolney say pehchaantey hain na. Bigar bolney pehchaan kaisey ho saktee? Baat karney say maaloom padega – Barobar falaani aatmaa hai. ShivBaba bhi jab knowledge dein tab samjhein ki ShivBaba boltey hain. Gyaan yah toh dey na sakein. Yah sivaay Baap ke koi samajha na sakein." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 14.06.08, page 3)

“When someone’s soul enters Brahmins, people recognize (that soul) by the style of his speech, don’t they? How can we recognize someone without (listening to his) speech? The manner in which he speaks indicates that this is definitely such and such soul. Even in case of ShivBaba, we can understand that ShivBaba is speaking only when He gives knowledge. This one cannot give knowledge. Nobody except the Father can explain this.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 14.06.08, page 3 published by BKs)
Also- to know how faith is developed in them. - That is- how they realized God in Mr. Dixit? what were the words that gave them those feelings? - Else what the later PBKs who came to gyaan are just believing the hear says, is it not?

Because- some PBKs shows Murli point to another and says- See- in Murli it is said so ("Murli says - How do you know whether Shiv is present in the Chariot or not? It is when He gives knowledge")

another point- how many of those new soul/s who got inspired directly from ShivBaba through Dixit had been a BK?, etc , etc- all these should be known- is it not?

Because- if they had been BKs, who showed that Murli point to them? should be Mr. Dixit only - right? So- is it not God there directly declaring that- I am here and this is media?
ShivBaba will give knowledge through someone and not by inspiration sitting in the supreme abode. Those whose third eye of knowledge is open will understand the knowledge. But if you wish to cling on to Brahma Baba and the stagnant knowledge you are free to do so.
Don't you have two unlimited fathers and two unlimited mothers then?
Is Prajapita not Pita?
Prajapita is pita (Father) without any doubt, but his importance is only when the incorporeal Shiv is present in him. So, both are interdependent. That is why remembering incorporeal through the corporeal is the most accurate form of remembrance.

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Re: BKWSU asking for Veerendra Dev Dixit's proof he is ShivB

Post by mbbhat » 03 Aug 2012

We are declaring to the world that God is present in corporeal form by putting up stickers all over India asking 8 questions to BKs. But BKs like you are complaining all the time.

Why do you need BKs to declare and those 8 questions if you need to declare to open world?

Why there had been so much delay in declaring?

I have already answered your doubt with the help of a Murli point. If you want a proof here it is:
But how it happened for the new souls to approach Mr. Dixit and what was the intial bhagavaanuvaach? - This is not answered. So- it is upto PBKs if they explain fully or not.

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Re: BKWSU asking for Veerendra Dev Dixit's proof he is ShivB

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Aug 2012

mbbhat wrote:Why do you need BKs to declare and those 8 questions if you need to declare to open world?

Why there had been so much delay in declaring?
Oh, come on ... you are intelligent enough to understand what is going on. It is just like political campaigning and they are shaming and exposing the Brahma Kumaris, something the Brahma Kumaris need to have done to them.

You are talking about a small, poor, grassroot organization that does not suck up to the rich and powerful like the BKs. It is against their principles (and the original BK principles) to do so. God is the "Lord of the Poor", not the "Sucker up to VIPs".

Cannot you understand? It is just taking the PBKs time to develop a campaign and the money to invest in it.

The BKs like to pretend they have no dirt or inconsistencies and hate when it is exposed to the general public. They are so vain.


How much have the BKs cut out of the Murlis to hide their sin???

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Re: BKWSU asking for Veerendra Dev Dixit's proof he is ShivB

Post by mbbhat » 03 Aug 2012

Oh, come on ...
Cannot you understand?
Again personal comments from ex BKs!

You are supporting PBKs because you have none other than them who can criticize BKs. Even if you find no truth there, you need them because to join your conversation here. Else who respects ex BKs, that too in BK- PBK forum?
You are talking about a small, poor, grassroot organization that does not suck up to the rich and powerful like the BKs.
Else- if you find not truth or God in AIVV, should not have pity on such organization, because BKWSU also was like that before. It had passed through a great beggary period and the number was just 70.

I do not claim what BKs are doing is right. I have already said- that the I believe BK tree will shake once more.
The problem is- you people get upset and are jealous of BKWSU.

I can also add- owners pride, neighbor's envy.

[I do not feel bad if you support PBKs, because ex BKs, PBKs also will come to heaven and will be with us in the conflict free society at least for few births. so- I have respect to you. I have both ruhaab(intoxication) for self and raham (pity) to you and all. All the best]

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