pro publico bono

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ANU
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Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Sharing the results of research in the story of the Yagya collected with co-operation with western students.

Re: pro publico bono

Post by ANU » 06 Jan 2011

arjun wrote:Moreover, you must understand that God Shiv has been projecting Himself not as God but an ordinary human being (visible to us as his temporary or permanent Chariot). He cannot project Himself as a miracle performing magician giving knowledge like a Mathematician, Doctor, Lawyer, Historian, Geologist, etc. etc. Whether it is the temporary Chariot or the appointed Chariot, He tries to give some basic facts about the soul, about the Supreme Soul, about religion, about the world history and geography.
If someone plays a role of an ordinary man, he follows the rules which an ordinary man has to follow in the world of ordinary men - this is an aspect of what Baba teaches saying that an ordinary man will act in an ordinary way. 'Ordinary way' = normal, usual way.

A normal way or an ordinary way of a man who wants to teach about history or geography etc in a credible way means that he observes certain rules. In order to speak about history in a creadible way, an ordinary man presents facts and documents. Otherwise, how will the other believe him? "An intelligent person needs proofs" - Baba's teachings. "Inteligent people will never believe in anything unless they have proofs" - Baba's teachings.

On the other way, if an ordinary man states that he teaches history or geography etc and does not base his teachings on tangible proofs, other ordinary men will say that this is something extraordinary (unusual) and the man speculates or teaches speculation or speaks nonsense.
"Speculation is very harmful." - Baba's teaching. "Never base your knowledge on speculations!" - Baba's teaching.

pbkindiana
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Re: pro publico bono

Post by pbkindiana » 07 Jan 2011

Anu wrote:
Please explain what is "logic" and how logic proves that Shiva is omnipresent. I did not get what you meant.
Dosen't entering of Shiva in other human forms denotes of omnipresent. From 1936 till 1976, Shiva is entering someone till the appointed Chariot took rebirth and after the demise of Brahma Dada Lekraj, Shiva entered the appointed Chariot. Only through the appointed Chariot, Shiva is able to play the role of Father-Teacher-Sadguru.

Omnipresent means that the point of soul Shiva enters more than one person as He needs a body when He comes down in 1936 and He cannot go back till the first man becomes Narayan. When Shiva plays the role of ShivBaba, then it cannot be said as omnipresent becoz there is only one appointed Chariot who can emulate Shiv's 100% stage and that is Rambap. So it is logical to say that Shiva is omnipresent but not ShivBaba.

indie.

ANU
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Re: pro publico bono

Post by ANU » 07 Jan 2011

indiana wrote:Omnipresent means that the point of soul Shiva enters more than one person as He needs a body when He comes down in 1936 and He cannot go back till the first man becomes Narayan.
I see... Now it has become clear to me that we understand 'omnipresence' in a different way. In the vocabulary I use, "omnipresence" means "simultaneous presence of an individual entity in more than one place".

Buttonslummer and I have exchanged our views on it here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2236&p=35272#p35272

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Re: pro publico bono

Post by pbkindiana » 09 Jan 2011

Anu wrote:
I see... Now it has become clear to me that we understand 'omnipresence' in a different way. In the vocabulary I use, "omnipresence" means "simultaneous presence of an individual entity in more than one place".
AK says that Shiva is not ekvyapi but ShivBaba is ekvyapi. So i feel it is true based on Shiva entering the others from 1936 to 1976.

indie.

ANU
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Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Sharing the results of research in the story of the Yagya collected with co-operation with western students.

Re: pro publico bono

Post by ANU » 09 Jan 2011

indiana wrote:AK says that Shiva is not ekvyapi but ShivBaba is ekvyapi. So i feel it is true based on Shiva entering the others from 1936 to 1976.
Could you please post points from classes confirming this. Saying "ShivBaba is ekvyapi" sounds nonsense to me, as "being ekvyapi" means be present in a body; ShivBaba means Shiva + the body in which he enters.

pbkindiana
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Re: pro publico bono

Post by pbkindiana » 10 Jan 2011

Anu wrote:
Could you please post points from classes confirming this.
Please allow me 2 to 3 days to find the VCD and i will post it to you.
Saying "ShivBaba is ekvyapi" sounds nonsense to me, as "being ekvyapi" means be present in a body; ShivBaba means Shiva + the body in which he enters.
Ekvyapi means that ShivBaba's role as Father is present in one body only as it is said in SM that "ShivBaba is Father's role only." Shiva did not play the role of ShivBaba in Brahma D. Lekraj as no inheritance was received fr Shiva through Brahma DL as it is said in SM. 1.3.76 -- "ShivBaba bestows inheritance to brahmakumars and brahmakumaris through Prajapita Brahma." Shiva only played the role of Godmother in Brahma Baba as it is said in SM 3.6.03 -- "The mother cannot be called God because God is called the Father."

SM 6.9.73 -- "I can enter any of my children and cause upliftment of any soul. This doesn't mean that I will enter into animal and cause divine visions." -- so I feel that "Shiva is not ekvyapi but ShivBaba is ekvyapi" as narrated in AK is true.

indie.

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