ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by nivi » 24 Apr 2011

Being raised in a Hindu family I do know that Hindu religion condemns marrying within family (same bloodline)..It is totally against dharma(religion), and is seen as a very bad, bad, evil thing.. I personally do not know any Hindu's who marry their cousins or blood relative..Historically, I think it was mostly amongst Muslims that had such practices of marrying cousins/siblings( same bloodline), and may even be true now to some extent.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by arjun » 24 Apr 2011

anu wrote:Can anybody explain why incest considered as a pure connection in Golden Age and Silver Age, suddenly becomes prohibited and damned later on? Only because the organ of conception changed from the mouth to the genitals?
You have raised the question as well as given the answer. But I would just add to your answer that the method of reproduction changed from vibrations (in the Confluence-Aged heaven) to eyes (births in Golden Age) to mouth (births in Silver Age).
nivi wrote:I personally do not know any Hindu's who marry their cousins or blood relative

No, it is still practiced among Hindus from South India. Marriages are not allowed between paternal relatives, but marriage with maternal relatives is allowed. In North India, marriage with either paternal or maternal relatives is not allowed.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by nivi » 24 Apr 2011

Arjun Bhai,

I clearly don't understand how siblings can ever become a couple?? If you get a chance would you be able to conform with Baba about this practice because it sounds so disturbing.. The way I understand is that Baba establishes the household path in a unlimited, spiritual way..When we become Brahmin's we recognize our unlimited mother & Father and are taught to see everyone as brothers and sisters only, and no other relationship should exist amongst us!! It is about having a pure vision..In a family you have mother, Father, brothers and sisters.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by ANU » 24 Apr 2011

Incest practices in India
Source


Incest, the practice of marrying one's sister was very much prevailed in ancient India.

Incest was common among several tribes of pre-Aryan India and is still found in various parts of the country. Thus, the marriage customs of the panchama baiga of central India permit the union of grandparents and grandchild, while the Ernadan male of Malabar takes his eldest daughter as his second wife.

The Hindu levirate system, known as Noyoga, was a sort of incest, practiced for the sake of raising offsprings, though it appears to have been extended beyond legitimate bounds. As examples of incestuous marriages in Hindu mythology may be cited the union of Yama and Yami; Manu son of Vivasvat and his sister Sraddha; Prajapati and his daughter Ushas; Pushan and his sister Surya; Sukra and his THREE sisters; Suka and Pivari; Satrajita and his TEN sisters; Nahusha and his sister Viraja. Purukutsa's queen Narmada after her husbands death, obtained a son through her own brother. Draupada may have married his own sister to obtain Dhrishtadymuna and Draupadi. Kaisalya wife of Dasaratha was probably also his sister; and more than one authority has suggested that Rama and Sita were actually brother and sister. Brahma married his own daughter. It was an obvious act of incest justified in scriptures.


Dr Sarkar thinks that the Rig-Veda furnishes rishi sanction (method) for the incestuous ties between a man and his sister, or even mother. The vedic rite called GOSAVA involved union with ones own mother, sister or female relative through which one secured entry into heaven. The Jaiminiya Brahmana relates that king Janaka of Videha, when he understood its (i.e. rituals) nature, refused to undertake the rite, but a Sibi king did perform it, acting out all the requirements.

Certain episodes in the Epics point to an established dynastic custom among the Pandavas and Kauravas of sons succeeding to the seraglios of their Father on his death, and it was apparently in keeping with ancient usage for princes to consort with all the Father's wides except their own mothers. Upadhya after citing several instances of incestuous practices among the ancient Indian people justly concludes, `In face of these numerous data, it futile to hold that incest is un-Vedic'. Whatever reasons the early Aryans had for despising the natives, they could not despise them on the score of their incestuousness.

The promiscuity that permeated the later extremist Tantrik cults demanded incestuous relations with one's sister, daughter, and mother, in antinomian rites that were believed to be especially pleasing to the goddess.


References abound even in the Rg Veda, showing that the perversion of

brother-sister incest was introduced by the ancient Hindus :

Pushan is the lover of his sister Rg Ved VI.55.4 Apte 11

Agni is the lover of his own sister Rg Ved X.3.3 Apte 11

Ashvins are referred to as the sons of Savitar and Ushas who are brother and

sister Apte 11 .

The Ashvisns married Surya and Savitri who is their sister RV I.116.19 .

Agni is the son of his fatehr and his sister Rg Ved.I.91.7

Yama wards off his sister Yami, saying marriage between brother and sister is

forbidden R.V.X.10 Apte 11

Father-daughter incest occurs in the famous story of Prajapati (later

identified with Brahma, in tunr incorporated as an incarnation of Vishnu) and

his daughter RV III.31.1-2 . Moreover, this was punished. Prajapati is

thought to have done something wrong, and Prajapati was pierced by Agni as a

punishment Sat.Br. XIII.9 Apte 63 .

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by nivi » 25 Apr 2011

Dear Anu,

I am not an expert on Hindu Mythology, but I think there is a possibility that these stories may have been distorted or completely misunderstood by us present day humans...As Baba says the amount of truth in scriptures or mythology is similar to the amount of salt in a dough( Just a pinch!)..In Ak teaching we learn that there was no actual being such as an elephant trunk Ganesha, or four armed Vishnu, or Monkey face Hanuman, or that Ram took an army of monkeys, or a buffalo demon Mahishasur etc... These mythological creatures, beings, deities are just a memorial of us Brahmins who are playing such parts in this Confluence Age. In clarification Murli, Baba gives detail explanation of how we are playing such part right now..

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by arjun » 25 Apr 2011

nivi wrote: I clearly don't understand how siblings can ever become a couple?? If you get a chance would you be able to conform with Baba about this practice because it sounds so disturbing.. The way I understand is that Baba establishes the household path in a unlimited, spiritual way..When we become Brahmin's we recognize our unlimited mother & Father and are taught to see everyone as Brothers and Sisters only, and no other relationship should exist amongst us!! It is about having a pure vision..In a family you have mother, Father, Brothers and Sisters.
I think it has been discussed in discussion classes many times. And it is believed in AK that siblings would grow up to become couples. It does sound disturbing when someone hears this for the first time. And it was disturbing for me as well when I became a PBK. But it is disturbing as long as you imagine that how can a brother and sister have sexual relationship. But when there is no sexual relationship, when there is no body consciousness at all, then I think there is no difference between siblings and couples.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by pbkindiana » 25 Apr 2011

What i have learnt from AK is that when the soul has attained perfection, then it develops the vision of pure brotherhood. The soul is able to recognize its partner(soul-mate) and its brothers. So whether they come out from the same womb, they are partners and it is considered pure in having connections with your partner(soul-mate). In AK it is said that purity is having connections with your wife or your husband ie. your soul-mate. In sangam yug it is compulsory to practise purity even among husbands and wives as these Kaliyugi couples are not soul-mates but actually they are brothers and sisters who got married to each other when their vision of pure brotherhood diminished completely. So to conclude there is purity only when you have sexual realtionship with your soul-mate and not with anyone else eventhough it is a entirely different family tree.

indie.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by nivi » 25 Apr 2011

In Golden Age( this upcoming Golden Age within this Confluence Age) Krishna's vision will fall only at Radha, and Radha's vision will only see Krishna. Krishna belonged to Suryavanshi(Sun dynasty) and Radha was a Chandravanshi (Moon dynasty), so how shall they meet? Certainly Krishna belonging to a higher family could not simply run after Radha. The scriptures clearly say that Radha and Krishna are from different families and even grew up in different places. In fact Krishna had spent more time with gop-gopi's than with Radha. Many scriptures also says that the relationship and love between Radha and Krishna was a very deep one(soul mates) at spiritual level. The love that Radha had for Krishna was like no other he had ever experienced. Even though Radha and Krishna had spent little time with each other their bond was beyond any physical limitations of time and space. Radha understood Krishna had a great mission of world transformation and so she demanded little of his time..These are all in scriptures.. Baba says all the scriptures are simply a memorial of events( during the shooting period) taking place within this Confluence Age. The shooting period pertains to what is happening at our mental level within our ' mind/soul', and not necessarily the acts we perform or not perform.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by arjun » 25 Apr 2011

Disc.CD No.417, dated 12.10.07 at Pathankot
Part-I


Time: 1.44
Someone asked: Baba, Lakshmi & Narayan will become the parents of Krishna. then , who will become the parents of Radha?

Baba replied: Lakshmi & Narayan will become the parents of Krishna. Which Radha and Krishna are you talking about? Are you talking about the Krishna and Radha of the Golden Age or are you talking about the Confluence-Aged Radha and Krishna? Are you talking about the Radhey and Krishna who are praised in the scriptures or are you talking about the ones who have not been praised in the scriptures at all? Are you talking about the ones about whom Baba has told us that the children like Radha and Krishna take birth in the Golden Age?
Someone said: The ones who have been mentioned by Baba.
Baba: Will the children like Radha and Krishna who take birth in the Golden Age be born from the same parents or from two separate parents?
Someone said: From the same parents .
Baba said: It means that if daughter Radha is born from a separate set of parents, child Krishna is born from a different set of parents, then will there be two families or one ? If, in the Golden Age, Radha is born in a different family and Krishna is born in a different family, then will there be two clans or will there be only one clan? It has been said in the Murli that Radha belongs to the Moon Dynasty (Chandravanshi) and Krishna belongs to the Sun Dynasty (Suryavanshi). So, will there be two dynasties in the Golden Age? There will be only one dynasty (vansh). So, the parents will also belong to only one dynasty. And nobody becomes a widow (vidhwaa) or widower (vidhur) there. There, the childhood (bachpanaa) is not such that the child would keep lying in the cradle (paalnaa) for 2-3 years and that the parents will have to clean the excrements and urine (of the child). Take for example a calf. As soon as it takes birth it starts jumping, starts running. In the same way a pure reproduction takes place (in the Golden Age). Will the mother sit and cry there during the birth of a child? No. The birth of a child takes place very comfortably…..

.......So, it is not about the Golden Age. Whatever is mentioned in the scriptures pertains to this time i.e. the Confluence Age. It means that the soul of Radha might be certainly getting the sustenance in the clan established by the Moon of knowledge, Brahma. And will Krishna belong to the Moon Dynasty or the Sun Dynasty? He will belong to the Sun Dynasty (Suryavanshi). There he might be obtaining the knowledge directly from the Sun of Knowledge. And all his followers will also be the ones who study directly from the Sun of Knowledge. They will not be the ones who study from the Brahmakumar-kumaris. So, Krishna belongs to the Sun Dynasty and Radha belongs to the Moon Dynasty. Will Krishna consider himself to belong to a higher clan or will he consider himself to belong to a lower clan? (He will consider himself to belong) to a higher clan. Therefore it has been said in the Murli, There is a great confusion (moonjh). How can the Suryavanshi Krishna go to the place of Chandravanshi Radha? He cannot go. So, how can both the clans come together to become one? It has become an issue of great confusion. Now this confusion has to end….

...…Who possess more power of the intellect, the Suryavanshis or the Chandravanshis? The Suryavanshis possess more power of the intellect. They remember the true Father and what about the Chandravanshis? They do not remember the true Father. They remember through Brahma. Whom does their intellect consider the God of the Gita? Dada Lekhraj Brahma, the soul of Krishna. And here, it is in our intellect that the God of the Gita is Shiv Shankar Bholeynath, who remains in the incorporeal stage. So, ours is the true remembrance and theirs is the false remembrance. So, who will bow before whom?

Someone said: The false one will have to bow.
Baba replied: The Chandravanshis will certainly have to bow. And on what basis will they bow? When we can pull God near us with the power of intellect, then will Radha not be attracted? Therefore, it has been said in an Avyakt Vani : “ Invoke the rosary of victory (vijaymala).” Whom should you invoke? The head of the rosary of victory. If you catch the Queen Bee (rani makkhi), then all other bees will come behind her automatically. We don’t have to run from pillar to post. We do not have to seek (mangani: a tradition of seeking a bride’s hand in marriage) at the doorsteps (of the bride’s family) like the Muslims and the Christians. What do the Muslims do? They seek , don’t they? Kindly give us your daughter’s hand (in marriage). (The tradition of) mangani has been continuing among the Sikhs as well....

... First of all in whose connection and contact did the Muslims and the Christians come more than anyone else ? Whose rule was there in Punjab (at that time)? There was the rule of the Sikhs. So, first of all they came in connection and contact with them. They adopted their nature and sanskars and their traditions, but what happens among the Hindus? Among the Hindus, does the bridegroom’s family go to the bride’s place or does the bride’s family go to the bridegroom’s place? The bride’s family comes to meet the bridegroom. He (i.e. the bridegroom) belongs to a higher clan and she (i.e. the bride) belongs to a lower clan. So, those from the lower clan have to go to those from the higher clan. Where did this tradition start? This tradition started from the Confluence Age.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by Roy » 25 Apr 2011

Nice! What could be more clear than that! Thank you Arjun Bhai!

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by ANU » 25 Apr 2011

The Chandravanshis will certainly have to bow. And on what basis will they bow? When we can pull God near us with the power of intellect, then will Radha not be attracted? Therefore, it has been said in an Avyakt Vani : “ Invoke the rosary of victory (vijaymala).” Whom should you invoke? The head of the rosary of victory. If you catch the Queen Bee (rani makkhi), then all other bees will come behind her automatically. We don’t have to run from pillar to post. We do not have to seek (mangani: a tradition of seeking a bride’s hand in marriage) at the doorsteps (of the bride’s family) like the Muslims and the Christians. What do the Muslims do? They seek , don’t they? Kindly give us your daughter’s hand (in marriage). (The tradition of) mangani has been continuing among the Sikhs as well....

... First of all in whose connection and contact did the Muslims and the Christians come more than anyone else ? Whose rule was there in Punjab (at that time)? There was the rule of the Sikhs. So, first of all they came in connection and contact with them. They adopted their nature and sanskars and their traditions, but what happens among the Hindus? Among the Hindus, does the bridegroom’s family go to the bride’s place or does the bride’s family go to the bridegroom’s place? The bride’s family comes to meet the bridegroom. He (i.e. the bridegroom) belongs to a higher clan and she (i.e. the bride) belongs to a lower clan. So, those from the lower clan have to go to those from the higher clan. Where did this tradition start? This tradition started from the Confluence Age.

The author of these words above gives incomplete and false information about marriage customs in various culture circles. This information create stereotypes and serve false generalisation. Even about marriages in Hindu society he speaks in a very manipulative way.

Second, app. 8 years ago the author of these words stated that Radha would come to AIVV in 2008, and the new role, the role of Vishnu would start. When his prophecy failed, he reinterpreted the theory of Radha-Vishnu-BK Vedanti coming to AIVV in 2008 and created a new theory saying that this role had already started among BKs in BKWSU. No need to mention that before Radha-Vishnu-BK Vedanti coming to AIVV in 2008, Jagadamba Kamla Devi Dixit was supposed to return to AK. So far, Kamla Devi Jagadamba not only hasn't returned, but she even withdrew her letter about being with ShivBaba till the end and forbade using her name as Jagadamba by AIVV. As we can expect, the AK teacher created a new theory explaining a secret role of Jagadamba Mahakali is being actually played by Kamla Devi right now, from distance in AIVV :laugh:

All these practices far too clearly resemble old practices used by sects, cults and churches in human history. Everything happens in the name of God Himself and allegedly it is God Himself who does all this.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by pbkindiana » 26 Apr 2011

Anu wrote:
The author of these words above gives incomplete and false information about marriage customs in various culture circles. This information create stereotypes and serve false generalisation. Even about marriages in Hindu society he speaks in a very manipulative way.
In the olden days in the Indian culture, it is the duty of the bride's parents to select a bridegroom for their daughters. Even in those Indian movies(1960's), it is shown that the brides select their own suitors and put a garland on that particular suitor of their choice.
Second, app. 8 years ago the author of these words stated that Radha would come to AIVV in 2008, and the new role, the role of Vishnu would start. When his prophecy failed, he reinterpreted the theory of Radha-Vishnu-BK Vedanti coming to AIVV in 2008 and created a new theory saying that this role had already started among BKs in BKWSU. No need to mention that before Radha-Vishnu-BK Vedanti coming to AIVV in 2008, Jagadamba Kamla Devi Dixit was supposed to return to AK. So far, Kamla Devi Jagadamba not only hasn't returned, but she even withdrew her letter about being with ShivBaba till the end and forbade using her name as Jagadamba by AIVV.
It is true that the author of AK did mention that BK Vedanti will come to AIVV but He did not mention any dates. Jagadamba Maa withdrew her affidavit only after the ordeal she had undergone. She was extremely terrified and left alone to decide after Baba Dixit's arrest.
As we can expect, the AK teacher created a new theory explaining a secret role of Jagadamba Mahakali is being actually played by Kamla Devi right now, from distance in AIVV
The role of Mahakali is played by the soul of Brahma DL in the body of Jagadamba Maa and it has already started in 1976 but not massively. Jagadamba Maa does not need to do the Mahakali role from distance of AIVV as she has her own helpers as it is shown in the Mahakali picture that Mahakali has hands around her waist and 'hands' mean her helpers.
All these practices far too clearly resemble old practices used by sects, cults and churches in human history. Everything happens in the name of God Himself and allegedly it is God Himself who does all this.
Since Shiva is establishing the Ancient Deity Religion, then definitely the old practices and cultures can be prevalent only the in olden days. God is uplifting us and those who are unable to appreciate His benevolence, demean Him.

indie.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by ANU » 26 Apr 2011

AK teacher twists and manipulates facts, data, descriptions, he often quotes those things which are suitable for his theory neglecting the other facts which remain the part of the whole picture. In this way he often changes the original meanings of things. Lots of examples I have already given in my posts.

The question of Vedanti and Jagadamba - yes, contrary to what you, pbk indiana, are saying, AK teacher mentioned data; 2008. He did it many times and he spoke about their both coming to AIVV.

Kamla Devi recently, within few years, wrote an official letter in which she prohibited using her name as Jagadamba in the letter of faith. It was something dofferent from what she did in 1998. I saw it when I brought a person to do batti. However, you will not learn about it from AIVV officials, because they have a good reason to hide this fact from the public.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by arjun » 26 Apr 2011

anu wrote:As we can expect, the AK teacher created a new theory explaining a secret role of Jagadamba Mahakali is being actually played by Kamla Devi right now, from distance in AIVV :laugh:
Is it not ironical that a person who is pointing out the double standards of someone else practices it himself. Whenever a PBK uses a smiley, anu gets angry immediately and now he/she is using smileys to make fun of a person who is not even a member of this forum and cannot defend himself/herself here. :-? And this is not the first time anu has used such smileys to make fun of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit and PBKs on this forum.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by arjun » 26 Apr 2011

anu wrote:Kamla Devi recently, within few years, wrote an official letter in which she prohibited using her name as Jagadamba in the letter of faith. It was something dofferent from what she did in 1998. I saw it when I brought a person to do batti. However, you will not learn about it from AIVV officials, because they have a good reason to hide this fact from the public.
This is another big lie of anu. This issue has been discussed openly in may discussion classes and most PBKs are aware of this fact.

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