ShivSena. Time to move on.

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Roy
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Re: ShivSena. Time to move on.

Post by Roy » 17 May 2011

shivsena wrote:i do not understand this stand of PBKs who claim to have the truth, yet they have hostility towards someone who challenges them.....it is also said that "truth knows no fear" (''satyata hai toh nidarta hai hi''.)...then why are PBKs scared of someone challenging what they claim to be truth.....it only means that they know in their inner heart that their preachings are not the truth or they do not have the face to accept it openly.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

I don't believe any PBK on this forum fears you to be frank; and my point was not that Button Bhai was demonstating fear by his comments; but that by banning you, it could be mistaken for fear. I feel the only reason most souls on this forum would like to hear less from you, is because they've heard it all before, and wish to move on, and spend their time on other things. However, because you speak with great conviction about your beliefs, inexperienced souls coming to view this forum, could be powerfully influenced by your posts; and souls like Arjun Bhai i believe, feel it is only serviceable to present the PBK view to balance things out. I myself, was very much influenced by your presence on this forum, when i first arrived here; and it took me quite a while to realise, that what you are presenting, is manmat(imo). However; this may have been a different story, if souls like Arjun Bhai(especially), weren't presenting the PBK perspective, which helped me keep my bearings; especially in the early months of my AK studies.

So in essence, what i am saying; is that the PBKs' fears, or at least mine, are... is that your influence could take inexperienced souls, down a path, that in our eyes, is a particularly detrimental one. However, I am not sure removing you from our midst, sends out the right signals to the world... i feel it makes us look weak, and unable to cope with an opposite view point; it feels a little too much like censorship to me. So, for a long and as much as i am able; i will continue to give my opinions(not necessarily official AK teachings), on the viewpoints you express here.

Roy

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shivsena
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Re: ShivSena. Time to move on.

Post by shivsena » 17 May 2011

Roy wrote:
However; this may have been a different story, if souls like Arjun Bhai(especially), weren't presenting the PBK perspective, which helped me keep my bearings; especially in the early months of my AK studies.
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

All i wish to say is that do not rely on any dehdhari to come to the final conclusion as to what is the truth....the whole shooting period is a exam, which each soul has to pass himself by reading and churning the Murlis and Vanis and if your decisions are being influenced by any dehdhari then you will blame him for your failure....i have decided that i am responsible for my destiny and i will never rely on anybody's churning except my own ("apni ghot toh nasha chade") and i tell this to all PBKs who come to my residence to hear about the yartharth roop of ShivBaba (Mama jagdamba)...please do not believe anybody except your own inner voice.

shivsena.

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Roy
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Re: ShivSena. Time to move on.

Post by Roy » 17 May 2011

shivsena wrote:All i wish to say is that do not rely on any dehdhari to come to the final conclusion as to what is the truth....the whole shooting period is a exam, which each soul has to pass himself by reading and churning the Murlis and Vanis and if your decisions are being influenced by any dehdhari then you will blame him for your failure....i have decided that i am responsible for my destiny and i will never rely on anybody's churning except my own ("apni ghot toh nasha chade") and i tell this to all PBKs who come to my residence to hear about the yartharth roop of ShivBaba (Mama jagdamba)...please do not believe anybody except your own inner voice.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

All each of us can do, is the best we can with the understanding and recognition we have, of what is truth. My recognition of ShivBaba, is through what i believe is the recognition of the truth, that is spoken in the Murli; especially now, in the Clarifications of the Murli. It feels like home to me, and where i belong. A few "seeming" anomalies are not going to deter me, when there is so much power derived from reading these Clarifications. I feel like i have been awakened by AK, i have never churned as much in my life. I am not yet fully awake, as i have much study and assimilation yet to achieve. If all of this turns out to be untrue(i doubt this though), then i will not be blaming anyone but myself; it simply won't have been in my fortune to be victorious(I am not saying i'd be happy with this though). It is my decision to follow the teachings of AK, based on what i believe is recognition of the truth... no-one is twisting my arm in this!

Roy

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arjun
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Re: ShivSena. Time to move on.

Post by arjun » 18 May 2011

shivsena wrote:it is also said that "truth knows no fear" (''satyata hai toh nidarta hai hi''.)...then why are PBKs scared of someone challenging what they claim to be truth.....it only means that they know in their inner heart that their preachings are not the truth and they do not have the face to accept it openly.
Shivsena Bhai,
Your reply is not at all new and was on expected lines. Instead of understanding the spirit of buttonslammer Bhai's post/thread you have twisted it like a shrewd politician to your benefit to present yourself as a victim and PBKs as the perpetrators of victimization when you know very well that we have answered all your questions posted on this forum, not once but hundreds of times. Still you accuse us of fearing you.

So, you can continue with your old ways of repeating the same points again and again and again and again and continue to take advantage of the helplessness of PBKs in your matter. You know very well that nobody except the PBKs respond to you and all the PBKs are tired of listening the same old baseless lecture. But you want to force them to listen to your lecture and respond to it again and again just to be in the limelight. So be it.

OGS,
Arjun

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Re: ShivSena. Time to move on.

Post by shivsena » 18 May 2011

Roy wrote:
It is my decision to follow the teachings of AK, based on what i believe is recognition of the truth... no-one is twisting my arm in this!
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.
It is good to hear that you have taken a independent decision regarding AK, as i did way back in 1993, but after almost a decade, when it dawned on me that AK is jhooti Gita, then again i had to take the decision to leave AK and churn the Murlis and Vanis on my own....so in future, if at anytime you feel that you have been taken for a ride by AK, then do not hesitate to accept it as i have accepted it openly on the forum.
shivsena.

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Re: ShivSena. Time to move on.

Post by pbkindiana » 18 May 2011

shivsena wrote:
i do not understand this stand of PBKs who claim to have the truth, yet they have hostility towards someone who challenges them.....it is also said that "truth knows no fear" (''satyata hai toh nidarta hai hi''.)...then why are PBKs scared of someone challenging what they claim to be truth.....it only means that they know in their inner heart that their preachings are not the truth and they do not have the face to accept it openly.
PBKs are never hostile to anyone who challenges them as long as they provide references of SM and AV to support their views. PBKs are not interested in your demoniac views which you post blindly that are devoid of SM quotes. A sensible debate is one with references of SM or AV to support one's views. You just simply blah, blah, blah which is extremely irritating.
All i wish to say is that do not rely on any dehdhari to come to the final conclusion as to what is the truth....
As usual baseless speculation when it is said in SM 8.8.78 -- "Now that Incorporeal Father gives you advice through this corporeal form."
and i tell this to all PBKs who come to my residence to hear about the yartharth roop of ShivBaba (Mama jagdamba)...please do not believe anybody except your own inner voice
.

only demons join hands with demons to propagate their demoniac knowledge
....so in future, if at anytime you feel that you have been taken for a ride by AK, then do not hesitate to accept it as i have accepted it openly on the forum.
I am very sure Roy Bhai doesn't need your advice as he is very capable to decide for himself.

indie.

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Re: ShivSena. Time to move on.

Post by pbkindiana » 18 May 2011

Button slammer wrote:
I strongly urge all PBKs to no longer debate with you in the PBK forum itself[/b], and to apply a full stop.
Dear button slammer Bhai,

I feel that the loyal PBKs have to defend their Father (Baba Dixit) against demoniac souls(eg. shivsena) who condemn Baba Dixit with his demoniac views. We have to defend AK and its author in a diplomatic method ie. supporting our views with SM or AV references as it looks logical with SM quotes. Moreover Baba told me to join the discussion and provide SM and AV quotes to support our views. Unlike demoniac souls like shivsena who post his demoniac views without any back-up is like a drop of poison in the ocean when he adds his demoniac views in brackets in SM quotes. So it would be nice if you join the group of true PBKs to defend our true Father ie. Rambap-Baba Dixit.

The more the merrier.

indie.

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Roy
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Re: ShivSena. Time to move on.

Post by Roy » 18 May 2011

pbkindiana wrote:I feel that the loyal PBKs have to defend their Father (Baba Dixit) against demoniac souls(eg. shivsena) who condemn Baba Dixit with his demoniac views. We have to defend AK and its author in a diplomatic method ie. supporting our views with SM or AV references as it looks logical with SM quotes. Moreover Baba told me to join the discussion and provide SM and AV quotes to support our views. Unlike demoniac souls like shivsena who post his demoniac views without any back-up is like a drop of poison in the ocean when he adds his demoniac views in brackets in SM quotes. So it would be nice if you join the group of true PBKs to defend our true Father ie. Rambap-Baba Dixit.The more the merrier.
I agree with Indie Bhai; i feel our continued combined stance against what we believe is untruth, and the work of Ravan, is what being a PBK is all about. This for me is the most serviceable and accurate method, of dealing with any soul who opposes AK, on this forum.

Roy

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Re: ShivSena. Time to move on.

Post by sita » 18 May 2011

The forum has not been creted by shivsena, he inherited it through BKinfo, but if he pays tax for domain he is in charge. But participants have rights, investing time and energy. Now it is Ravan Rajya, decisions are taken by consulting one another.

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REGIME CHANGE IN THE PBK

Post by button slammer » 19 May 2011

sita wrote:The forum has not been creted by shivsena, he inherited it through BKinfo, but if he pays tax for domain he is in charge. But participants have rights, investing time and energy. Now it is Ravan Rajya, decisions are taken by consulting one another.
Yes now you touch on practical matters and the way foreward. In my view shivsena has allowed contraversial topics to be the forefront of the forum. Any new soul with an interest in AK is immiediately perplexed by the state of affairs here. He has performed little if any site maintenance, the overall impression is that of a war zone.
From the response of members so far, the general pulse is that shivsena (or whoever), should be allowed to continue with whatsover contoversial topics regarding AK. The format should be changed though, so that newcomers to the forum should be presented with a fair and reasonable representation of who and what PBKs are; what AIVV is; a general outline of the aims of the PBKs, how it relates to the BKs in particlar, and to the world at large; not to be based around the relio-political views of a single tyrannical individual who has controlling power of the forum format.
At present the PBK forum is based around mostly mature Brahmins who have completed at least the bhatti, have met Baba face to face, and or have a resonable amount of independant churning power. The genral feeling and experience is: SINK OR SWIM. This is just plain wrong. Any visitor to the site should be made to feel welcomed and well informed, neither of which shivsena has remotely succeded in. Newcomers and regular PBKs alike are simply put off by the barrage of offensive topic titles that continuously seek to undermine the efforts of AIVV, its founder, and students.
It's disheartening to say the least, to be made to feel a stranger in ones own home by an individual re: the administrator himself, who openly declares the founder a liar, the AIVV as false, and its followers as cowards. To have the right to organise ones own affairs in ones own home is not too much to ask for is it?

I am proposing a consensus of 'NO-CONFIDENCE' in the ability of shivsena to administrate this forum.

As and when he steps down I propose that a trio of PBKs take up the admin duties, who will sort out the day to day running of the forum, plan around anticipated future events, and incorporate newness into the forum.
To create a form of mission statement that can sum up in a nut shell what is AIVV etc.
A section on Yagya history, (as we understand it so far).
Each new admin to serve a minimum of say 4 months, to share and pass on admin skills.
Regular PBK contributors should take responsibility for the forum at least for a short time.
The first task of the new admin may well be to archive topics from the previous admin and begin again.
To review the case of any PBKs banished under the previous admin and consider reinstatement.
To accomodate the likes of shivsena and other PBK detractors a section entitled HOT TOPICS/CONTRAVERSIAL ISSUES: (enter at your own risk etc), rather than consign them to the splinter group, which would most probably be a fate worse than death for them.
As and when shivsena steps down there shold be no gloating.
He has and will continue to play his role as he sees it, and I know many members have affection for him, including myself.
Should shivsena be unwilling to step down his reasons must be looked into.
OK AUM

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Re: ShivSena. Time to move on.

Post by shivshakti » 19 May 2011

Dear Bhai

Why would the new souls following Shivsena's posts be perplexed ? Why should there be an insecurity when you have confidence in spreading and stating that Advanced knowledge is right. Just an onlooker, observer, I have noticed that Shivsena is throwing some intense questions and he answers himself. Why is everyone so restless? What is catching my eye as a newcomer is not his posts but the way the PBK's are reacting to his posts.

good wishes

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Re: ShivSena. Time to move on.

Post by button slammer » 19 May 2011

shivshakti wrote:Dear Bhai

Why would the new souls following Shivsena's posts be perplexed ? Why should there be an insecurity when you have confidence in spreading and stating that Advanced knowledge is right. Just an onlooker, observer, I have noticed that Shivsena is throwing some intense questions and he answers himself. Why is everyone so restless? What is catching my eye as a newcomer is not his posts but the way the PBK's are reacting to his posts.

good wishes
Just an onlooker, observer? Then why make a biased comment? PBKs are restless not because of what shivsena says, or any other detractor, but because:
a.(as explained in explicit detail above please note).We have no control over our own forum. It is run by someone with our collective worst interests at heart.
b. please re-read the above post.

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Re: ShivSena. Time to move on.

Post by arjun » 19 May 2011

shivshakti wrote:Why would the new souls following Shivsena's posts be perplexed ? Why should there be an insecurity when you have confidence in spreading and stating that Advanced knowledge is right. Just an onlooker, observer, I have noticed that Shivsena is throwing some intense questions and he answers himself. Why is everyone so restless? What is catching my eye as a newcomer is not his posts but the way the PBK's are reacting to his posts.
There is no insecurity amongst PBKs in regard to shivsena's posts. If you have time to go through the posts made in the last few years you would find that PBKs have patiently answered hundreds of questions raised by shivsena Bhai not once but many times. But in order to remain in limelight and to recruit followers to his group he keeps repeating his posts again and again. And that is why PBK members of this forum are fed up of reading his repetitive posts.

The reaction of the PBKs that you are observing is just a recent development. You have to go through the entire contents of the PBK Section to make a balanced view about the present reaction of PBKs.

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Re: ShivSena. Time to move on.

Post by arjun » 19 May 2011

buttonslammer wrote:I am proposing a consensus of 'NO-CONFIDENCE' in the ability of shivsena to administrate this forum.
I think shivsena Bhai knows very well that PBK members of this forum do not have confidence in his ability to administrate this forum, but I don't think he would relinquish this responsibility or agree to shift to the splinter groups section as he aims to earn his bread and butter from this Section. Although he can achieve his aim by writing in any other Section of this forum, but I think it must have become a prestige issue for him now.

I think we must leave the decision to him. The more we discuss the issue, the more he would take undue advantage of our comments and defame AIVV further. So, I think it is best to let him defame AIVV as much as possible. Those who have time to respond can respond. Otherwise we can simply ignore his posts. Even otherwise, he does not have anything substantive to offer other than presenting the only piece of information that he has 'Om Radhey Mama is No.1 shivshakti' in different ways. People would be automatically be bored of his repetition of this single line statement.

OGS,
Arjun

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Roy
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Re: ShivSena. Time to move on.

Post by Roy » 19 May 2011

arjun wrote:I think shivsena Bhai knows very well that PBK members of this forum do not have confidence in his ability to administrate this forum, but I don't think he would relinquish this responsibility or agree to shift to the splinter groups section as he aims to earn his bread and butter from this Section
If Shivsena Bhai is the sole administrator and owner of this forum, there is little we can do to change things without his cooperation. But i cannot see him extending this, as his wish is to bring AK to its knees, and expose it it for the fraud he believes it is. We could all stop coming here, and set up a new forum, strictly for PBKs; but we would have to ban Shivsena Bhai from attending; as i cannot imagine he would wish to change his M.O. But then, wouldn't we be guilty of operating at the level of the BKs, and just shutting out any challenge, to our authenticity? I personally, have learnt more about myself, and AK, from debating with Shivsena Bhai, and reading other souls responses to his challenges; than i would have, had i not attended here. I think there is a wealth of informaton on this forum, if you wish to find it. You don't have to get embroiled in the debating with Shivsena Bhai; you can simply sidestep it, if you wish to; and just learn as much as you can, from what emerges, or is already available here. I wouldn't recommend this forum to souls who are very new to Gyan though; as i don't believe this is the right environment for them.
arjun wrote:I think we must leave the decision to him. The more we discuss the issue, the more he would take undue advantage of our comments and defame AIVV further.
I agree; i don't think we can demand anything of Shivsena Bhai; he has every right to state his beliefs on this forum. We are not spiritual police, we are spiritual students!

Roy

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