Mother Jagadamba

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john
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Post by john » 16 Aug 2006

Andrey wrote:In the Murlis it is said “Even those who live with Me cannot recognize Me” Otherwise why should she leave. There are audios kept with her giving classes on all the pictures except the Trimurti. It is not fitted into her intellect as to who is the real God of the Gita, corporeal Krishna or incorporeal Shiv Shankar Bholenath.
This seems an honest, down to earth description of what has happened to Mama thanks for sharing that.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 16 Aug 2006

Andrey wrote:It is not fitted into her intellect as to who is the real God of the Gita, corporeal Krishna or incorporeal Shiv Shankar Bholenath.
OK. So in plain English ... at the present moment, the PBK Mama does not believe in Virendra Dev Dixit anymore?

So, this leads us to the next question ... if Virendra Dev Dixit does not say that he is the Chariot of Shiva, who does? Where did the rumours start and who started them?

Are there Senior PBKs like there are Senior BKs making stuff up?

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Post by andrey » 17 Aug 2006

Sure, it is the same form as the outside world. The way the BK is, but just in a smaller and more powerfull way. After all where does all the Dadis, Didis and Dadas go when they leave the bodies. They are said to go into the Advance Party, is not it? It is said that the 8 deities are those who used to colour /with the colour of the virtues, because there had not been much knowledge at that time/ the Dadis in the beginning of the Yagya so that they become Dadis. At the end they become instrumental to giving them knowledge.

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Post by bansy » 17 Aug 2006

Andrey wrote:Sure, it is the same form as the outside world
Can you confirm this meaning and be more precise in your post. It seems that you have just agreed that :
  • - PBK Mama does not believe in Virendra Dev Dixit, and/or
    - Virendra Dev Dixit does not say that he is the Chariot of Shiva and/or
    - Senior PBKs are making stuff up

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Post by andrey » 17 Aug 2006

Whatever PBK Mama believes or not ... how can I say. However belief should not be over a human being, isn’t it? When I was signing the affidavit I saw a letter from Mama saying that she has been surrendered by her mother. Now due to her own choice she leaves. She asks that her name is not mentioned in the affidavits anymore and at the end it says, "however I’ll be with ShivBaba till the end".

To me it seems she does not have great faith in herself being Jagadamba, otherwise would a mother leave her children like this and 100% clarity as to who is exactly ShivBaba. However to me these statements seem incorrect, to say PBK Mama or to say belief in Virendra Dev Dixit. One should say Mama or Jagadamba and ShivBaba. Otherwise it is like looking the body. In the affidavit it says one has faith based on his own churnings of the Murlis and Avyakt Vanis of BKs at Mount Abu as to who is Mama and Baba.

In the Murli [via Virendra Dev Dixit] it says, "the one who says I’m God is devil". He has never, nowhere said I’m God. Why? Shankar is said to be the head of the Yadavas. How? Who are the Yadavas? Kauravas knew God but did not accept or follow Him. Yadavas did not even know Him, so there is no question of acceptance. So, does he know someone as God? Does he know God enters me. He does not even know that. Pandavas knew and followed. However God the Father is Father to all the three. He comes in front of the three armies to give knowledge. So he is the Biggest Kaurava also and the Biggest Panda. Kauravas make a lot of noise [speeches] with no practical act. It is visible from a long time, so many clarifications etc. Nothing practical. The same one also plays the role of the biggest Panda or Leader, to lead the whole world into liberation and salvation.

Who are the senior PBKs I don’t know and what do they do is not of my concern. I have only said there are Dadis in the Advance Party because Baba has said so. However, one can guess who are they. Here there is nothing physical. Elder and younger is based on knowledge. Where, in whom, which Dadi enters one can guess on his own based on the knowledge etc. Would Baba say? In the Murlis, [via Virendra Dev Dixit] it is said, He would not say or write on the board as to who is who. Everyone will reveal oneself in the palace of mirrors where no one will be able to hide, and nothing from inside will remain hidden and in front of the biggest mirror ShivBaba. Baba says by looking one's speech, behaviour, actions He knows.

Everyone will reveal themselves in their own in this way, is not it so?

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Post by bansy » 17 Aug 2006

Full reply good.
Andrey wrote:what do they do is not of my concern
I have no doubt about your love for ShivBaba, though it is not for me to doubt. Everything counts in understanding, and cannot say is of no concern. For me anyway.

One's spiritual relationships are the karmic relationship with whoever we (our soul) encounters through the 84 births, and this birth is the most important.

So understanding the relationship of Mama and the rest of the Yagya, which I believe includes BK, PBK, ex(P)BKs is also important, but the relationship with the Father is the most important. When Father says "Remember me", I believe it also means remember the entire environment of Father, as so many of our intellects are pulled in this material world.

Remember, one needs to develop faith is (a) Self (b) Father (c) Family (d) Drama. Of course all happen at the same time, but it was given in this order so I believe the most important faith is actually Self, because without you there is no need for a Father nor a Family, and you don't have an (elevated) role to play in the drama. When you become master almighty authority and a river of knowledge (Murlis say brahmins cannot be ocean, as there is only one ocean), then it is all about Self, and you've reached your destination, the Other Shore.

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Post by atma » 17 Aug 2006

Bhai's,

I believe Mama is being fed false information on Virendra Dev Dixit (Baba) from male pbk's just like you have learned that there is no Shankar Party as per Murlis but the bk's keep on using this term. So many false accusations are coming out and will continue as Arjuna Bhai has given. Same thing happened with Jesus and others.

I also believe that it is a big responsibility for her (Mama) and timing is everything so when the time is right she will come out and boy will she come out. Baba does not say who he is this is up to us to understand.

Why would Shiva need to advertise who he is?

atma

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john
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Post by john » 17 Aug 2006

Atma wrote:So many false accusations are coming out and will continue as Arjuna Bhai has given. Same thing happened with Jesus and others.
And not forgetting all the things that happened to Brahma and the BKs in the very early days from the Anti-Parties. Brahma even had an assassination attempt on his life.

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Post by andrey » 18 Aug 2006

Everything counts in understanding, and cannot say is of no concern.
Why should one look at others as to what do they do or not do? We should look at ourselves as to what do we do or not do, is not it so? For example, brother ex-l has trained himself well to correct others. Why not correct oneself first? When one corrects oneself first then others will do the same. They will automatically follow by seeing an example, otherwise one is upset with oneself.
one needs to develop faith is (a) Self (b) Father (c) Family (d) Drama
If it is a familly then where are there the Mother and Father practically present. Or is it that we are orphans? And is there the vision of brothers and sisters there amongs us, or even a vision of brothers only? If Shiva is only a Father of the souls like brothers, and if He is not practically here now on this Earth, then where and when will the conciousness of Father and brothers develop from in the incorporeal world where there is neither conciousness, nor time? These type of conciousness will be developed here only with the practical role of ShivBaba and practical Mother and Father.

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john
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Post by john » 18 Aug 2006

Andrey wrote:If it is a familly then where are there the Mother and Father practically present.
Is not this the point of the thread ... where is mother?

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Post by andrey » 18 Aug 2006

It's a test. Should the Mother accepts her husband and his children and children accept Mother and Father then unity is visible and not separation. Creation is there, family is there. Father cannot be away from the mother. It is His responsibility. But it is always a matter of courage.

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where iis mother?

Post by surya » 18 Aug 2006

By the way, has anyone seen our Mother lately? Or has anyone of you ever met her?

How old is she?

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Post by button slammer » 19 Aug 2006

surya2037 wrote:By the way, has anyone seen our Mother lately? Or has anyone of you ever met her? How old is she?
You will never meet the Mother just by asking endless ridiculous questions. How old is she? Over the past few years Arjun and other PBKs have been patient in accomodating one question leading to another leading to another leading to another leading to another leading to another leading to another... zzz ...

Anyway ... what form of the Mother are you curious about? The Mother also plays many roles. Some of which I don't think you'd like to see. The main thing is; is that, when the C**P stops flying off the fan and everything settles down, there will be one BIG BAD QUESTION. Where were you when YOUR MOTHER needed you most?

One time in Delhi I asked Baba/Virendra Dev Dixit about the parallel between Jagadamba Saraswati (part-timer) and Jagadamba/Mummy. My question was 'If Saraswati had received co-operation from the Yagya at the time of her Illness would she have perished in such an untimely manner? The reply was that she did not recieve the full co-operation and suffered unnecessarily from the lack of good wishes etc. (There was a lot of power play going on at the time, Saraswati was the main player holding it all in check). When she was out of the way, Brahma Baba became the soft target.

I asked, "How we could help Mummy?" Baba replied that "By giving love to Mummy, pure spiritual love". This is the support she needs right now. suspect that every BK/PBK has had an experience of the Mother. For souls coming into knowledge after the death of Dada Lekraj that experience would be in the form of subtle Avyakt vibrations. You can search your own experiences of your Brahmin life. I'll relate some of my own to show you what I mean ...

One time during my first visit to Madhuban, I was sitting on a small marble wall that is near the graveyard in the courtyard. It was early evening after supper. BKs were in small groups and sitting here and there. One small group was just behind me partially hidden by the trunk of a small tree. I was enjoying the Madhuban experience, just lying along the cool marble wall not thinking of anything in particular, just soaking up the atmosphere. I became aware of a change in my mind and body. Like my breath being linked to my thoughts and the total feeling of lightness that expanded beyond the bounderies of my body. Breath became light sweet deep and delicious, I was feeding on nectar, the very air itself made me light.

It felt like I was floating off the wall, allthough I could still feel the contact with the wall, it felt very comfortable and not hard at all. I simply had to stretch in a small way to feel blissfull and content. I could feel this vibration like a tangible force floating/merging into the starlit night. This went on for a few minutes in a playful way. I sensed this feeling surrounding the small group behind me.

In this group was Dadi Kumarka and several others. As the feeling intensified Dadi detached herself from the group and came over to stare at me in a curious way. It was amusing to have the head of the institution come over and give me the up and down with her eyes; me, kind of writhing around on the wall unconcerned by her presence. However, out of respect I stood up and said, "Om Shanti Dadi". She could definitely feel what I was feeling. That floating on air sweet liquid lightness. I nodded and she nodded back. I wondered off for a cup of tea I guess after that ...

My thoughts on the matter were that it was some kind of angelic experience (me being a BK noobie) connected with Brahma Baba. Because Kumarka had spent so much time with Brahma Baba she was able to recognise it also. These experiences continue up to now in my PBK life. I don't need them everday, its the understanding that is the main thing, its just a Karmic account.

I'll relate others some other time ...

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 19 Aug 2006

surya2037 wrote:By the way, has anyone seen our Mother lately? Or has anyone of you ever met her? How old is she?
I have had the fortune of meeting her personally on a few occasions at Delhi when the construction of the AIVV HQs was going on between 1996 and 1998. When I first went to Delhi, she herself served the food with her own hands to all brothers including me. I also happened to travel with my Lokik and Aloukik mother (Mama) on a cycle rickshaw that is a common mode of transport in Delhi.

Since it was my first visit to Delhi, and seing the construction work being undertaken by the PBKs themselves completely, I wished to do some service by donating something. When I asked Mama separately about the requirement of the Yagya, if any, her reply was that does a child ask the parents at home what is required at home? He/she himself/herself observes whatever is lacking at home and brings it. The teaching that I gained from this experience is that Mama and Baba themselves set an example in the Advance Party by not seeking anything either in cash or kind, while throughout my two decades experience as a BK I saw many BK teachers seeking cash and kind openly.

As per Baba's Murlis Mama was around 9 years old when she and her mother recognized Baba in 1976. So I suppose the age of her corporeal body is around 40 years now. Since she is also believed to be the Yagya Mata along with Sevakram at the beginning of the Yagya, who supposedly left that body in the late 1940s, this birth appears to be her third birth in the Confluence Age.

I have not met her after 1998 but I have heard stories that she has met some PBKs in the recent times and contacted some over phone. If it is true then all these rumours about her leaving the PBKs are nothing but false, just to wane the PBKs away from the Advance Party.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Your heart left experience...

Post by surya » 19 Aug 2006

Arjun wrote:When I asked Mama separately about the requirement of the Yagya, if any, her reply was that does a child ask the parents at home what is required at home? He/she himself/herself observes whatever is lacking at home and brings it.

Auh! great to hear about your experience Arjun! I am sure that in the near future my wish to meet her will be fulfilled...

button slammer ... thanks for your views also. I know we shouldn't ask so many questions, but 40 years ago I was a baby living abroad and now as a PBK I want to know everything. Everything under the sun! Because I too should become a mini Ocean of Knowledge copying Baba. And the experiences you guys write here on this site are good as gold.

Thanks,

Surya

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