Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani)

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john
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Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani)

Post by john » 18 May 2006

Brahma Baba's soul has gone to the Subtle Region after the demise of Brahma Baba
According to the BKs. So where has Brahma baba gone and what is the Subtle Region in advance knowledge terms?

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Brahma Baba and the Subtle Region

Post by arjun » 19 May 2006

Dear John,

Om Shanti. Bro. Andrey has given a good reply. I would only like to add that Shankar is a mixed role where 'Sh' refers to 'Shiv', 'ka' refers to 'Krishna' and 'r' refers to 'Ram'. So, three souls are acting through the body of Shankar. The Supreme Father Shiv is represented as the Shivnetra, i.e. the third eye; the soul of Krishna is depicted as the half moon and the body belongs to the soul of Ram.

So, Brahma Baba, i.e. the soul of Krishna has been studying the advance knowledge since 1976 through the body of Shankar living in the Subtle Region, i.e. a world of Brahmins in a stage of subtle thinking and churning. Subtle Region does not actually exist somewhere beyond this physical atmosphere/universe. It exists here in this world for those souls who are in a subtle stage of thinking and churning.
With warm wishes,
On Godly service,
Arjun

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john
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Post by john » 19 May 2006

So you say Brahma baba spends all his time in the body of Shankar, unless he moves over to madhuban to give Avyakt Vani? Then the thought is, why is the same effect not seen on Shankar as is seen on Dadi Gulzar ... as anyone who has witnessed will know there is quite a change that goes on when Brahma enters Dadi Gulzar.

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Post by arjun » 20 May 2006

Dear John, Om Shanti.
john wrote:So you say Brahma baba spends all his time in the body of Shankar, unless he moves over to madhuban to give Avyakt Vani? Then the thought is, why is the same effect not seen on Shankar as is seen on Dadi Gulzar ... as anyone who has witnessed will know there is quite a change that goes on when Brahma enters Dadi Gulzar
I did not mean to say that while not moving to Gulzar Dadi's body, the soul of Brahma Baba stays permanently in the body of Shankar. It can also enter into any Brahmin child to do service of giving spiritual force/inspiration.

The soul of Brahma enters into the body of Gulzar Dadi with a subtle body. So the physical effect of the subtle body on the physical body can be seen in the form of physical changes.

But when the soul of Brahma Baba enters into Shankar, it attains a seed-like stage in the company of the Supreme Soul Shiv and the soul of Ram. And thus the physical effect of the subtle body is not visible.

With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

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Post by bansy » 20 May 2006

Point No.3- Father needs body - Father's language Hindi

Dear Arjunbhai
Prajapita - He is the creator.
So does this mean the Brahmin (--->Diety) religion is His creation. The world is not "created" as meaning in physical creation (because it has always been here per drama), but gets recreated by destruction/renewal during the Confluence Age. And God Shiva, is not in Paramdham but with us all now in this physical world, teaching, guiding, directing ... (plus all the other roles that God plays) Prajapita in the creation, who in turn is teaching the Brahmin family?

Has Baba mentioned the language in the Golden Age ? Or communication will be by power of Yoga and power of thoughts ?

Regards
Bansy

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Post by arjun » 20 May 2006

Sister Bansy,
Om Shanti. Prajapita has been referred to as the creator because when we talk of creation it is not incorporeal but corporeal heaven consisting of deities and nature. Nature cannot be created but is transformed through our power of Yoga. The physical bodies of deities have to be created. And the beginning has to made through someone. And that is Prajapita or the Confluence-Aged Narayan.

The incorporeal God gives us the incorporeal inheritance of Godly knowledge, divine virtues, power, mukti (salvation) and jeevanmukti (true salvation or beatitude) through Prajapita Brahma. So Prajapita Brahma is considered to be the Creator. But Prajapita also gains importance only when Shiv enters into Him. So, both are important. But God Shiv is more important.

As regards the language of heaven, I think both 'gestures' and 'simple Hindi' has been mentioned in the Murlis as a method of communication in heaven. I will have to search for Murli points to give an accurate answer.

With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

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Post by khormozian » 30 May 2006

Arjun wrote:BKs say that ShivBaba has returned to the Soul World after 1969.
Om Shanti Arjun
You've said this several times in your postings but I've never heard this in any BK classes that I've attended and I've been a close-to-daily Murli student for about 3 years. Was this something that was communicated in the classes you attended when you were a BK? If so, did the teacher who said it give a Murli point to back it up or was it just stated?

Regards, Kurosh

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Father Shiv is not in the Soul World

Post by arjun » 03 Jun 2006

Dear Kurosh,
Om Shanti. Sorry for the delay in reply. I am not aware if it is officially written anywhere in the BK literature that ShivBaba has returned to the Soul World, but it is the general belief among BKs that Father Shiv has returned to the Soul World and the soul of Dada Lekhraj (Brahma Baba) has returned to the Subtle Region.

There are many reasons for this. Firstly, the BKs are taught to remember the Supreme Soul in the Soul World.

Secondly, whenever trance messages are received, the trance messenger describes the message as if she met Brahma Baba in his subtle body in the Soul World and sometimes Shiv would also be present in such meetings.

Thirdly, there are many sentences in the Sakar Murlis of BKs that God comes from the Soul World to teach us children. So they believe that even after 1969 the Supreme Soul comes from the Soul World and enters into the body of Gulzar Dadi along with the subtle body of Brahma Baba.

Last but not the least, if the BKs do not say that ShivBaba is in the Soul World, then which place/body do they point out as the residence of Shiv? They do not believe that Father Shiv remains in the body of Gulzar Dadi except for the time when the Avyakt Vanis are narrated through her at Mount Abu/Aburoad. So, this also proves that they believe Father Shiv to be present in the Soul World whereas we PBKs believe, on the basis of Murlis and Avyakt Vanis that Father Shiv is present in a corporeal form in this corporeal world.

With regards,
ON Godly service,
Arjun

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Brahma Baba

Post by andrey » 18 Aug 2006

The Supreme Father Shiva says He enters an ordinary human body "one who is neither too rich nor too poor", and He enters the one who is the biggest lustful thorn to make him the biggest flower but Brahma Baba used to be fair and royal, having a pleasant and attractive personality even before Shiva entered into him, was rich and had a normal family. It is because it is the female body and part of Shiva/ that is beautiful than the male.

The Supreme Father Shiva says He enters a householder, but although Brahma Baba used to have a lokik wife, in the alokik life the one who used to play the part of his companion was not his spouse but his daughter Om Radhe.

Through the remembrance of the Supreme Soul Shiva the soul becomes pure? Which soul became pure by remembering the Supreme Soul through Brahma Baba. The whole world should become pure. Why is it said that if we remember this Brahma /Brahma Baba/ we’ll become impure? How should we remember so that we become pure? We should remember God in His one, permanent ,chosen Chariot, so that we may become pure. Which is this Chariot? A Chariot is definitely needed, because we become pure through the colour of His practical company of consciousness, eyes, vibrations etc. Otherwise remembering a point of light is possible at any point of time. At this point of time God descends Himself.

Through Brahma Baba Heaven has not been established practically, but only a sample has been made, after which the world has become more of a Hell with corrupt practices of exchanging glances between males and females and placing food in front of a photograph. Creation of Heaven, transformation of Hell into Heaven, of human beings into deities is Fathers responsibility. How will He fulfill it? No one else will be able to fulfill it instead of Him.

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Avyakt Brahma 100% Remembrance

Post by john » 18 Sep 2006

It is said that only Avyakt Brahma (Dada Lekhraj) enters Dadi Gulzar for the Avyakt Vani. Also that Avyakt Vanis can still be considered correct because Brahma gives them in 100% remembrance of Shiva ... Now what's got me thinking is how and who is Brahma exactly remembering?

Is it Shiva in the incorporeal world or Shiva in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit, bearing in mind that Brahma doesn't have full faith in the role of Virendra Dev Dixit as the Chariot of Shiva. The key thing is 100% remembrance, how can Brahma be having 100% remembrance if it's not a correct method?

Also in the book of Brahma Baba's life (by Jagdish), it tells that right from the start Brahma believed the soul to be a point of light (no mention of thumb or fireball) and to remember Shiva the point of light by taking the mind to the home of the souls.

Disclaimer ... I am not saying these are my views. I am merely pointing out what has crossed my mind ... remembrance is the most important thing, yet is it understood? Do we know how Brahma has remembrance? How Virendra Dev Dixit has remembrance?

Disclaimer Disclaimer ... I am making the initial disclaimer in the hope that PBKs with other souls on the forum can discuss matters without getting defensive and in that sense trying to disprove every point that is made they that don't understand and with the hope that healthy discussions can be had.

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Post by button slammer » 19 Sep 2006

just a couple of immediate ideas.

1 When Dada Lekraj enters into Gulzar Dadi she is in a trance state and possibly does not affect the concentration power of Dada Lekraj/Brahma Baba, and so that soul is able to stay in accurate rememberance.
2 Brahma Baba also plays a part through Mummy but her intellect is active and so the two souls come into conflict, doubts arise etc.

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Post by pbktrinityshiva » 19 Sep 2006

The key thing is 100% remembrance, how can Brahma be having 100% remembrance if it's not a correct method?
Perhaps the method is correct for the time of the Murli being spoken when there is faith in the method of remembering ShivBaba through corporeal form of (Virendra Dev Dixit). I do not think its that he doesnt know the correct method, its just he doesnt have constant faith in the correct method. That 100% level of faith would no doubt fluctuate otherwise. I am not 100% certain though... :)

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john
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Post by john » 19 Sep 2006

Cheers mi dears for your thoughts.

Something that also comes to mind is the idea of remembrance at death leading to the final destination. If it is not Brahma's destination to be on the planet at the time of destruction then does his remembrance need to be through the final Chariot?

I don't know, just putting my thoughts forward.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 19 Sep 2006

button slammer wrote:Brahma Baba also plays a part through Mummy
I know this is a PBK thread but the world is watching ... can you qualify "Mummy" here? I guess by BB you mean Lekhraj Kirpalani? It does get confusing at times. Some needs to publish a "family tree" of the spiritual lineage.

This is a very deep and accurate thread John, congratulations. It raises some very pertinent issues.

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Post by bansy » 19 Sep 2006

John wrote:Now what's got me thinking is how and who is Brahma exactly remembering?
From the BKs, I was given the view that because BB (Lekhraj Kirpalani) was already 100% perfect, angelic, it was "not necessary" for BB to be in any remembrance of Shiva, as BB had/is already equal to One. Though what BB says and tells us in the Avyakt Vanis is for the rest of us to remember only Shiva because that is how he did it, so we should do it his way. Thus the phrase "follow the Father" meaning to follow in the footsteps of BB (Lekhraj Kirpalani).

But of course if BB was/is already perfect, then why the necessity for Bap+Dada (Shiva + BB(Lekhraj Kirpalani)) to come during the BK season, as most BKs believe it to be. Though by now many of us, at least in this forum, would agree that only BB (Lekhraj Kirpalani) alone comes during the "BapDada" season. What else is there for Shiva to do if the Confluence Age is not yet over....

PS: I notice shivsena has made a post on the meaning of BapDada from a PBK viewpoint.

Welcome to the forum shivsena.

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