Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

DEDICATED to PBKs.
For PBKs who are affiliated to AIVV, and supporting 'Advanced Knowledge'.
Post Reply
sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 15 May 2016

See, how you write. It shows/implies that you are not sure about what you write. Guru of PBKs in his teachings boasts - "No one can give such a great clarifications", and, even you also say- "they are extra-ordinary clarifications", but fail everywhere while explaining. And- you write- "But"

When I give my churning, I admit they are churning of a human soul, hence yathaashakti. But, PBKs on the other hand believe they have God with them who is interested in discussions and discussions and giving clarifications to any questions, ...
So, what is that you or Mr Dixit clarified here?

SM 19-6-72(2):- Abhi tum jaante ho hum chadh rahe hain. Phir utrenge. SECOND LAGTA HAI CHADHNE MAY. BHAL TUMKO CHADHNEY MAY 25- 30 VARSH LAGTE HAIN. PICHAADI AANEVAALE SECOND MAY CHADH SAKTE HAIN. Ablaavon maataavon par kitney atyaachaar hote hain. -197- [wot, ER, second]

= You know we are climbing now. Then we will descend. 1)It takes second to climb. 2)Of course, for you it takes 25 to 30 years to climb. 3)Those who come late, they can climb in a second. ...

It is very difficult to explain B so V in one second- if we take the Murli point in literal sense. I believe second here means very much lesser time when compared to the time takes for V to B.

Since it is difficult to explain some Murli points in literal sense, Mr. Dixit took the advantage of the situation and tried to act over-smart than BKs by creating a new philosophy- the so called extra- ordinary clarifications. But, finally, they fell into their own pit.

If you see the above Murli point, it first says- 1)it takes only a second to climb. Is that right?

2)It then says- for the present children, it takes 25 to 30 years to climb.
3)It then says- those who come late can climb in a second. SO DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE WOULD BE SOME CHILDREN WHOSE EFFORT WOULD BE COMPLETED IN A SECOND?

So- I believe - It means those who come late need not need same time, as the gyaan at the end would be more refined. There is an Avyakt Murli point- "The present 5 years is equivalent to past 50 years".
Ours is easy and simple knowledge. One second means there is such a second where one realizes his part, his position, he gets transformed from brahmin to deity, his effort reaches such maturity that he cannot go back, his soul-consciousness does not fluctuate and firm soul-consciousness means a deity.

Those who come later come with a stock of effort. One second is also the time one needs to realize that the role of God is there practically being played now on earth and this knowledge is indeed available later. Although one may not become a deity practically in this very instant, but he realizes that the purifier is there practically, the one who makes humans into deities is there practically, so it really is just a matter of time. In his mind the transformation has already happened, the transformation that has happened in 76 that the old world is destroyed and new one is established. One loses faith in all and every one, one dies from everywhere and gets birth in a new place in a new home from the practical Father.
Are not these silly arguments? If remembrance of PBKs is very easy (and not at all difficult- as you claim we remember face to face, etc, etc) , where is room to say- "because it requires effort...."...Then why do PBKs boast/claim that their remembrance is easier?
It is easy effort, still it is effort, effort is required even in an easy way and it takes time. Time is required for the habit to develop, even more time is there needed for a habit to become firm and to become our natural nature. Effort is required even if you remember just a point of light, because people, your body, materials for the body still come to your mind. Remembrance in corporeal form is easy when compared to remembering just a point, because we naturally remember whatever we have experienced through our senses, whatever we have seen, heard, touched, the vibrations we have experienced - we remember that naturally and easily. A soul without a body cannot emit vibrations, cannot communicate , cannot act, etc. Baba has said that I sit with you, talk with you, eat with you, sleep with you, play with you, etc. so it becomes easy to remember these activities.
What you have proved are clearly visible here.
I suggest you better leave this attitude, we are not here to prove something. Don't take it so seriously. We can discuss like talking. We are not going to prove anything here.
I did not ask you anything personally. I said- if you are interested, you may give reply.
You just insist and challenge even after I have given my reply so that you can say - see they are unable to reply. But you have not asked me only, you have asked any PBK to answer, but as you see - no one does.
When PBKs defame BKs, it is not at all wrong. But, when you get reply in the same way, you feel bad. How silly!
It is not good to defame, whoever may be doing it. If we defame we will suffer for that, but you have to save yourself, you don't have to follow the bad example.

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 16 May 2016

This is the information about the 3-4 times changing of skin.

http://www.PBKs.info/Website%20written% ... an-Eng.pdf

THE PROCESS OF BECOMING KANCHANKAAYA
Just like it was said in [the course of] the World Drama Wheel, that the soul in the form of
the mind and intellect has to pass through four stages to become satopradhaan from
tamopradhaan. It has to mentally go up and down four times in the shooting period: the
Golden Age shooting, the Silver Age shooting, the Copper Age shooting and the Iron Age
shooting. Four kalpas (cycles) are merged in the shooting of these four ages. In the shooting of
those four ages, the soul goes up as well as down. So, just like there are three-four stages through
which the soul has to pass to be purified, the body also has to pass through three-four stages to be
purified. It won’t be rejuvenated at once. At first the soul in the form of the mind and intellect,
the seed becomes satopradhaan, because until the soul becomes satopradhaan, the body can’t
become satopradhaan. For the soul, Baba has said: “Your soul will continue to be rejuvenated
and the bodies will continue to decay.” Till when? They will continue to decay until the world
consisting of 500 crore (five billion) [souls] with opposite sanskaars and vibrations exists. When
the world of five billion [humans] is destroyed, when only the firm souls of the same caste, the
ones belonging to the Deity Religion are left in the world, the vibrations will become one
[vibration]. And when the vibrations are one, the power of the gathering (sangathan) will be
created, the vibrations will be transformed and because of that there will also be changes in [one
gathered human] nature.  “Some [souls] are left after the destruction. Among them, there are
noble souls (punyaatma) as well. Then after settling the karmic accounts, everyone will certainly
be pure in the Golden Age. In the Confluence Age, there are some sinful and some pure; then the
sinful ones will be destroyed and only the pure ones will remain.” (Mu.07.06.64, beginning of
pg.4) So, after, [meaning around] 2036, the entire world of Brahma will be destroyed; the
opposing souls will reach the Supreme Abode again.
In the picture of the World Drama Wheel, it was said that after or around [2036], the
balance of the Earth will be disturbed because of the final and total atomic explosions. There will
be very big earthquakes [and] because of the shaking [of the earth], [the position of] the axis of
the Earth will change. The miles high mountains of ice on the North Pole and the South Pole will
melt. The level of the ocean will rise. The very big great continents will be submerged in the
depth of the ocean. At that time, because of the rise of heat generated through the atomic
explosions, the water of the ocean will boil, turn into vapours and evaporate. So, there will be
torrential rains for many days in the world and because of its effect, the atmosphere of the earth
which will have become hot due to the atomic explosions, will become completely cold. There
will be the atmosphere of ice and only ice everywhere in this world once [in 5000 years]. We
will also be buried under ice in two ways: for some souls, their thoughts will freeze, they will
become a point, [they will have attained the stage of] ‘no thoughts at all’ continuously. And for
the other [souls], they are [those whose] bodies are frozen in ice.
A few seed form souls who will be left in this world, those souls will have such deep
remembrance of the Supreme Soul that when the thoughts are frozen in this world of thoughts,
just like there is ice and only ice everywhere [in the physical world], they will have to merge
[themselves] in it. The elevated purushaarthi (those who make purushaarth) souls will attain the
detached stage at first and later on, they will be buried in ice sooner or later (nambarvaar). Those
elevated purushaarthi souls will renounce their body in that ice and go to the Supreme Abode
through the mind and intellect. However, their body will remain safe and they (their soul) will
enter their [respective] body sooner or later according to their purushaarth. When they return [to
their body] as per the rule ‘as are the thoughts in the end, so is the final destination’, their soul
conscious stage will have become mature. It has been mentioned in the Gita as well:

Yam yam vaapi smaranbhaavam tyajatyante kalevaram.
Tam tamevaiti kaunteya sadaa tadbhaavabhaavitah. (Ch.8, shloka 6)

O son of Kunti! Whatever thoughts [a man] has when he leaves the body at the final
moment, he is always full of those very emotions and attains a character [accordingly].
The Confluence Age has been said to be of 100 years. The purushaarth of some souls
will continue till 2036-37, till the 100 years of the Confluence Age are completed. During that
period, the souls who give birth to Radha and Krishna, the souls who are proved to be the World
Emperor and World Empress in the world, will change the five elements of their body within 18
years based on the power of Yoga within the shortest period. Within those 18 years (from 2018
till 2036), they will have to pass through three-four stages. The body won’t be completely 100
percent rejuvenated at once. For example, if a person falls sick for a long time, his upper skin
sheds off and a new skin grows. So, it will happen in the same way. There will be transformation
the first time, the second time, the third time and at the fourth time the body is completely
rejuvenated. So, the first issues will be Radha and Krishna but they won’t be the only children to
be born, other children will also be born at different moments (nambarvaar) at that time. The
450 thousand (4.5 lakh) seed form souls who make purushaarth, the ones who rejuvenate their
body, will be ready in their mature stage and become the instruments to give birth to the 450
thousand children like Radha and Krishna sooner or later.
 “Now there are five billion human beings in the world. When there is the rule of these
Lakshmi-Narayan in the Golden Age, there are 900 thousand (nine lakh) [people] there.”
(Mu.04.09.69, beginning of pg.3)  “At first, there is the population of deities. First of all,
Lakshmi-Narayan belonging to the Ancient Deity Religion will come [in the world] along with
their subjects. Nobody else comes along with their subjects. As regards them, [first] one soul will
come, then the second [and then] the third [soul] will come.” (Mu.17.05.65, end of the middle
part of pg.1)
In this way, the children with a rejuvenated body will be born from [the ones with] such
rejuvenated bodies. So these elevated purushaarthis like Lakshmi-Narayan are proved to be the
ones who rejuvenate their body in this very birth. As for the rest, the souls like Radha and
Krishna have another birth and obtain the property of a rejuvenated body based on the
purushaarth of their parents. They don’t rejuvenate their body through their own purushaarth.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 16 May 2016

sita wrote:This is the information about the 3-4 times changing of skin.

http://www.PBKs.info/Website%20written% ... an-Eng.pdf

1)The Confluence Age has been said to be of 100 years. The purushaarth of some souls
will continue till 2036-37, till the 100 years of the Confluence Age are completed.

2)During that period, the souls who give birth to Radha and Krishna, the souls who are proved to be the World Emperor and World Empress in the world, will change the five elements of their body within 18 years based on the power of Yoga within the shortest period.

3) Within those 18 years (from 2018 till 2036), they will have to pass through three-four stages. The body won’t be completely 100 percent rejuvenated at once. For example, if a person falls sick for a long time, his upper skin sheds off and a new skin grows. So, it will happen in the same way. There will be transformation the first time, the second time, the third time and at the fourth time the body is completely rejuvenated.
Few more things need to be clarified here.
According to my knowledge, PBKs believe- soul of Mr Dixit goes to Paramdham (up above) just for a second and returns back. By the time he returns, he will not have Gyan. This going and returning year is in 2018.
Am I right?

PBKs also believe that when soul of Mr Dixit goes to Paramdham, no soul would be there in physical world- right? [They believe other souls would have already left their bodies and would be lying somewhere in atmosphere above doing nothing].

What is the shortest period here? Is it just one second or few years at least?

Does the whole world recognize Mr Dixit in 2018 or 2036 or when? What would be name of Mr Dixit during the time of revelation to the whole world? Brahma, Ram, Prajapita, Shankar or Narayan? or all or which all of these?

How do PBKs explain B so V in one second? And- is it B so V or B so N (Narayan)?

You believe the snake concept said in Murli refers to only Conf. Age, not to Golden Age? Or both? If it applies even to Golden Age, how?

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 17 May 2016

You believe the snake concept said in Murli refers to only Conf. Age, not to Golden Age? Or both? If it applies even to Golden Age, how?
Only Confluence Age.
How do PBKs explain B so V in one second? And- is it B so V or B so N (Narayan)?
In one body, in the same birth he is Brahma in one second. in the next second he is Vishnu. Vishnu means the combined form of Lakshmi and Narayan.
What is the shortest period here? Is it just one second or few years at least?
Here the shortest period means the shortest period when compared to everyone else. Radha and Krisha are the first and purest children, other children get birth after longer period, nature has already declined a little bit.
Does the whole world recognize Mr Dixit in 2018 or 2036 or when? What would be name of Mr Dixit during the time of revelation to the whole world? Brahma, Ram, Prajapita, Shankar or Narayan? or all or which all of these?
Brahma, Ram, Prajapita, Shankar, Narayan are all names of the corporeal, of the human. God is a point of light. His name is Shiv. In 76 it was the human who got recognized.The whole world recognizes him in different forms, Adi Dev, Adam etc. the first man. The whole world also recognizes God, but it does not happen on a particular year, like in 76 only few people recognize and this recognition goes on for many years, similarly on a particular years one-two souls could recognize something, then more recognize the same thing etc.
Few more things need to be clarified here.
According to my knowledge, PBKs believe- soul of Mr Dixit goes to Paramdham (up above) just for a second and returns back. By the time it returns, it will not have Gyan. This going and returning year is in 2018. Am I right?

PBKs also believe that when soul of Mr Dixit goes to Paramdham, no soul would be there in physical world- right? [They believe other souls would had already left their bodies and would be lying somewhere in atmosphere above doing nothing].
We bring Paramdham to this world. We reach that stage with collective effort, but no one can reach that stage if someone has not reached it first with his mind and intellect, then the doors to Paramdham and Sukdham open at the same time. When all the souls have reached Paramdham with their mind and intellect, the vibration on earth would have become peacefull, then only one can enter sukhdham. The father has to go last, because he has to help the children reach muktidham, then he also goes there and returns to sukhdham in a one second. That is why it is said that we receive mukti and jeevanmukti in one second, but i don't think it will be 2018, but who knows, it can be any second. But destruction also takes time. So many souls reaching Paramdham could take time. I think 2018 is short time for all souls, but who knows. But I think it could be that only few souls reach Paramdham with their mind in 2018, they start bringing it to this world.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 17 May 2016

sita wrote:Only Confluence Age.
SM 19-10-72(1 or 3):- Ab paarlowkik Baap kahte hain yah puraane sharir kaa bhaan chodo. Gyaan se, apney buddhi se is sharir may rahte bhaan chodnaa hai. Yah abhi samajhte hain jaise sarp khal chodtaa hai aur nayi letaa hai, TOH YAH BAATH ABHI SE NAHIN LAGTA. Satyug SE LAGTI HAI. Toh tum bhi Satyug se lekar pahley khal chodnaa shuru karenge. – 169, 169- [= SM 18-10-77 (above)]

= Now, Father says- leave the feelings of this old body. Through knowledge, through one's own intellect, even while being in this body, one should leave its feelings. Now, you understand the concept of snake leaving its old skin and taking new one. So, this matter does not apply from now. It applies from G Age. So, you begin to leave your body (so easily like a snake).
In one body, in the same birth he is Brahma in one second. in the next second he is Vishnu. Vishnu means the combined form of Lakshmi and Narayan.
Not explained enough. How and when?
Here the shortest period means the shortest period when compared to everyone else.

Not enough. I had asked how much time it would take for Mr Dixit to change his body from Iron Age to kanchan-kaya. A second, few months, or few years?
Brahma, Ram, Prajapita, Shankar, Narayan are all names of the corporeal, of the human. God is a point of light. His name is Shiv. ...
Any human being can have only one name (at any time).

SM 31-1-73(1):-SHIV KO RUDR BHI KAHTE HAIN. US NIRAKAR KE HEE ANEK NAAM HAIN. AUR KOYI KE ITNE NAAM NAHIN. BRAHMA Vishnu Shankar ka ek he naam hai. Jo dehdhari hain unhon ka ek hi naam hai. EK ISHWAR KO HEE ANEK NAAM DIYE JATE HAIN. MAHIMA KI JATI HAI. Unki mahima aparam apaar hai. Manushy ka ek naam fix hai.

= Shiv is also called/known as rudr. That incorporeal only has many names. No other has so many names. BVS have only one name. Those who have body have only one name. Just one Ishwar is given many names. (HE) is praised. His praises are countless. Name of a man is just one and fixed.
That is why it is said that we receive mukti and jeevanmukti in one second, but i don't think it will be 2018, but who knows, it can be any second. But destruction also takes time. So many souls reaching Paramdham could take time. I think 2018 is short time for all souls, but who knows. But I think it could be that only few souls reach Paramdham with their mind in 2018, they start bringing it to this world.
Guru of PBKs had given the date of revelation as 2016. Let us see how it goes in drama.

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 17 May 2016

SM 19-10-72(1 or 3):- Ab paarlowkik Baap kahte hain yah puraane sharir kaa bhaan chodo. Gyaan se, apney buddhi se is sharir may rahte bhaan chodnaa hai. Yah abhi samajhte hain jaise sarp khal chodtaa hai aur nayi letaa hai, TOH YAH BAATH ABHI SE NAHIN LAGTA. Satyug SE LAGTI HAI. Toh tum bhi Satyug se lekar pahley khal chodnaa shuru karenge. – 169, 169- [= SM 18-10-77 (above)]

= Now, Father says- leave the feelings of this old body. Through knowledge, through one's own intellect, even while being in this body, one should leave its feelings. Now, you understand the concept of snake leaving its old skin and taking new one. So, this matter does not apply from now. It applies from G Age. So, you begin to leave your body (so easily like a snake).
It is said now, that means in the Confluence Age, we leave the consciousness of the body, through knowledge. Through knowledge we leave our body-consciousness only in the Confluence Age. In the Golden Age it is like a sanskar, like the snake does not think when it leaves the skin, it happens naturally, in the same way in the Golden Age we leave the body naturally, but we don't leave the consciousness of the body. In the Confluence Age we leave the consciousness of the body, not the body and we do it through knowledge and not naturally, not like a sanskar.
Not explained enough. How and when?
At the end. We become complete at the end. Vishnu is the complete form.
Not enough. I had asked how much time it would take for Mr Dixit to change his body from Iron Age to kanchan-kaya. A second, few months, or few years?
Effort takes a long time, but there is also a final second. In the Murli it is said that it takes 40 to 50 years to become satopradhan from tamopradhan. In the article also it is explained that it takes time and it happens in few stages. It takes years. Starting from 2018 up to 2036.
Any human being can have only one name (at any time).
SM 31-1-73(1):-SHIV KO RUDR BHI KAHTE HAIN. US NIRAKAR KE HEE ANEK NAAM HAIN. AUR KOYI KE ITNE NAAM NAHIN. Brahma Vishnu Shankar ka ek he naam hai. Jo dehdhari hain unhon ka ek hi naam hai. EK ISHWAR KO HEE ANEK NAAM DIYE JATE HAIN. MAHIMA KI JATI HAI. Unki mahima aparam apaar hai. Manushy ka ek naam fix hai.
= Shiv is also called/known as rudr. That incorporeal only has many names. No other has so many names. BVS have only one name. Those who have body have only one name. Just one Ishwar is given many names. (HE) is praised. His praises are countless. Name of a man is just one and fixed.
These are not names of the body. It is name of the role. Like Brahma is name of the role, the name of the body is Dada Lekraj. Narayan means the one who lives in the knowledge, Ram the one in whom the yogis live. Prajapita is also not a name but a title. Shankar is also indication of mixed part, of destruction etc. Brahma is also name for many. It is like indication for the one whom the Supreme Soul enters. And you can also see these as titles of God, because the form is the same. The name of the soul is Shiva, but when the body changes the name changes, when the role he plays through the body changes his name changes. When he gives knowledge he is Gyanishwar, when he is in Yoga he is Yogeshwar, when he gives peace he is Shantideva, but all these names of God are also again titles, not actual names. All names of God indicate his role that he plays and a role is played only through a physical body, so we will name all these names to one corporeal personality.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 19 May 2016

sita wrote:It is said now, that means in the Confluence Age, we leave the consciousness of the body, through knowledge. Through knowledge we leave our body-consciousness only in the Confluence Age. In the Golden Age it is like a sanskar, like the snake does not think when it leaves the skin, it happens naturally, in the same way in the Golden Age we leave the body naturally, but we don't leave the consciousness of the body. In the Confluence Age we leave the consciousness of the body, not the body and we do it through knowledge and not naturally, not like a sanskar
1)First BLUNDER:- You had said- it applies only in Conf. Age. But, Baba says- it applies in Golden Age.
2)There is no question of whether a person has knowledge or not. We all know- in Golden Age, there is no knowledge. But, the sanskaar of the knowledge is stable in Golden Age.
The result is dependent on sanskaar of the knowledge acquired, not on the knowledge.
What is the use by saying in G Age- there is no knowledge?
PBKs argue in this manner when they lose their claims, and this is action of going against srimath and any logic.
At the end. We become complete at the end. Vishnu is the complete form.
3)Are not LN complete form? Is Mr Dixit complete by 1976- as PBKs believe he is eligible for the title Narayan by that time itself? So, the arguments of PBKs have neither head, nor tail.

4)OK, still if you like, explain fully, instead of giving half baked replies. Like- how in one second, Brahma becomes Vishnu? PBKs believe- when Mr Dixit becomes complete, he leaves his body. He returns into the body within a second. Then in how many years his body would become pure? -
You have not replied how would your Vishnu be in this case. Is it complete/pure soul in pure body or pure soul in impure body. And- which all souls would be included in Vishnu role.
Effort takes a long time, but there is also a final second. In the Murli it is said that it takes 40 to 50 years to become satopradhan from tamopradhan. In the article also it is explained that it takes time and it happens in few stages. It takes years. Starting from 2018 up to 2036.
5)Do you believe- the purification of body of Mr Dixit takes place in around 16 yrs, then immediately he gives birth to Radha and Krishna of Golden Age? And during these 16 years, soul of Dixit would be in like sleep/coma stage?
These are not names of the body. It is name of the role. Like Brahma is name of the role, the name of the body is Dada Lekraj.
6)Sorry. Brahma is name of body (after 1936). From 1936 till 1969, he or name of his body is Sakar Brahma. From 1969 he or his subtle body gets name Avyakt Brahma.

There is a Murli point which clearly says- Brahma is name of this body. [Except Shiv, all human beings- their name goes to the body].
This is the information about the 3-4 times changing of skin.
7)Snake changes its skin lots of time in its life span, not just 3 to 4 times. Or am I wrong?

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 19 May 2016

You had said- it aplies only in Conf. Age. But, Baba says- it applies in Golden Age. It is not the question of whether a person has knowledge or not. We all know- in Golden Age, there is no knowledge. But, the sanskaar of The Knowledge is stable in Golden Age.
What is the use by saying in G Age- there is no knowledge?
In the Golden Age we change body in soul consciousness, like the snake is in consciousness when it sheds its skin, but in the Golden Age we don't change our consciousness. And the example of the snake is not about changing bodies.
Are not LN complete form? Is Mr Dixit complete by 1976- as PBKs believe he is eligible for the title Narayan by that time itself? So, the arguments of PBKs have neither head, nor tail.

OK, let us accept PBKs. If you like, you may explain- how in one second, Brahma becomes Vishnu? PBKs believe that- when Mr Dixit becomes complete, he leaves his body. He returns into the body within a second. Then in how many years his body would become pure? - You have not replied. Is your Vishnu said above as complete is the complete soul in impure body or pure body? Which all souls play role on Vishnu?
In the Murli it is said that we become pure at the and and then leave the body, not that we leave the body and then we become pure. So the purification process is before leaving the body. Vishnu is a complete soul in a complete body. Vishnu is the combined form of Lakshmi and Narayan. When Lakshmi and Narayan attain complete soul in a complete body, it will be Visunu.
Do you believe- the purification of body of Mr Dixit takes place in around 16 yrs, then immediately he gives birth to Radha and Krishna of Golden Age? [Or does it happen before 16 years? ] And during these 16 years, soul of Dixit would be in like sleep/coma stage?
The purification process has started since from the beginning of the Confluence Age and goes on till the end. All the wild suggestions you are having you can check with someone you consider to be an authority.
Sorry. Brahma is name of body (after 1936). From 1936 till 1969, he or name of his body is Sakar Brahma. From 1969 he or his subtle body gets name Avyakt Brahma.

There is a Murli point which clearly says- Brahma is name of this body. [Except Shiv, all human beings- their name goes to the body].
No, brother, name is not given to the body. Name is given to the soul in the body, to the soul who plays the part through the body and the names change as the bodies change, but the soul remains the same. The soul of Shiv does not have his own body, still he acts through others. When he enters the name becomes Brahma. Brahma is a part of Shiv, as we used to discuss it. And every act of his is always beneficial, so he is Sada Shiv.

When Brahma Baba had left his body, would you call the remaining body Brahma? You are indeed prepared to argue over the smallest matter only so that you may have the last word, but you are just showing your incomplete grasp of basic aspects for which you don't even need too much of a knowledge, but just common sense, but you have lost that in your quarrels, where you twist things in such a way so that to create an argument over any aspect and to demonstrate smartness. You have become expert in finding faults, even where there are not, in show off, but this has become a sanskar you have to overcome. But don't do that on the cost of others. Don't ask same questions again and again. It is not smart. Baba has forbidden us to argue.
Snake changes its skin lots of time in its life span, not just 3 to 4 times. Or am I wrong?
You have to ask a zoologist about that. It varies to the different snakes with their age, etc. But Baba has said in the Murli 3-4 times and the unlimited Father speaks unlimited matters to his unlimited children.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 19 May 2016

Just half baked replies. I have slightly modified my previous post making the query more detailed as you did not reply to the point.
sita wrote:In the Golden Age we change body in soul consciousness, like the snake is in consciousness when it sheds its skin, built in the Golden Age we don't change our consciousness. And the example of the snake is not about changing bodies.
Mu Point clearly says- ""it applies from G Age, not now". Why does Baba say so? Before giving your explanation, you should say- why Baba had said so. Else, is there any point in just in delivering YOUR OWN LECTURE?
Vishnu is a complete soul in a complete body. Vishnu is the combined form of Lakshmi and Narayan, When Lakshmi and Narayan attain complete soul in a complete body, it will be Visunu.
Again just half baked reply. You may specify which all are the souls in which body, and say- whether the body is also pure or just soul is pure. If you cannot or do not like to name the personalities, it is left to you.
The purification process has started since from the beginning of the Confluence Age and goes on till the end. All the wild suggestions you are having you can check with someone you consider authority.
Half baked reply again. I had asked purification process of body of Mr Dixt and - if you like- you may explain about PBKs also and also about Kamala Devi- and other ex PBKs - to what extent their body had become pure.
You have to ask a zoologist about that. It varies to the different snakes with their age etc.But Baba has said in the Murli 3-4 times and the unlimited Father speaks unlimited matters to his unlimited children.
If you search in the internet, it says- a snake leaves its skin several times. But, your point does not agree with it. If possible, you may post the Murli point saying 3-4 times, and also explain - how many times Mr Dixit had left his skin and in which all years- like he can give dates/years - of different shooting of each age, etc.
Also- if there is any unlimited meaning in this , you may explain even that.
No, Brother, name is not given to the body....
SM 3-11-87(1):- Parmatma ke liye hee gaayan hai- “Hey patit paavan,...” Aate bhi hain patit duniyaa aur patit shareer may. Patit shreer kaa naam hai Prajapita Brahma. Ismey pravesh kar kahte hain, main bahut janmon ke anth_vaaley saadhaaran manushy may pravesh kartaa hun. -100-

= ...Name of impure body is Prajapita Brahma...

All of your explanations go against all the Murli points. Perhaps "unlimited meanings"- "in your view" could also be totally going against the Murli points.
Name is given to the soul in the body, to the soul who plays the part through the body and the names change as the bodies change, but the soul remains the same.
It is true that name is given to the role. But, no name is given to any human soul. It is only Shiv who has name to his soul itself. Because all human souls are recognized with body, but only God can be recognized without a body. And- since the role is temporary, the name goes to body.

Even what names Shiv gets, some are temporary- like Rudr. That is why Baba the name Rudr goes to the role played while being in the body.

Your explanation was OK here, but claiming totally something against Murli point is absurd, and only goes to demonstrate the arrogance of Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs.

See- you yourself have said- "names change, bodies change, but soul remains the same". Is that not a clear indication that- name of (any human soul) goes to the body? YOU WRITE SOMETHING AND SAY SOMETHING ELSE!
Brahma is a part of Shiv,
Brahma is part of the Chariot, and not Shiv. Of Brahma plays role as per direction of Shiv. So, you may say- Brahma is part of Shiv too. But, if you say- Brahma is part of just Shiv, it becomes wrong- like you just said- name does not apply to body. You may say- name applies to soul in the body [But, the logic is- since the soul plays the role for temporary period only, till it remains in the body, it is also right to say- name goes to the body- which you could not understand here].
When Brahma Baba had left his body, would you call the remaining body Brahma?

Definitely. That body would be called as "dead body of Brahma"*. And- B Baba after 1969, is still called as Brahma (Brahma baba), since he had connection with the role played by that body named Brahma. When in Paramdham, soul of Brahma will not have any name. It will be just saligram/soul.- It is wonderful logic/balance between a soul and body- Post No. 101- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=140

* - That body can never be called as "dead body of soul of Krishna". [even though the same soul plays role of Krishna too in its next birth].
You are indeed prepared to argue over the smallest matter only so that you may have the last word, but you are just showing your incomplete grasp of basic aspects for which you don't even need too much of a knowledge, but just common sense, ...
These all apply to you only. Check yourself. This is another clear evidence- how PBKs both mis-understand and misinterpret the Murli points and assume that- they are knowledge-full and pat their back - without REAL-EYEsing their IGNORANCE, owing to their CORRUPTED & INVERTED intellects - ALL as per Drama Plan, nothing to be perturbed about at all! Let concerned souls REAL-EYEs the correct position, if they choose to do so!

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 19 May 2016

Mu Point clearly says- ""it applies from G Age, not now". Why does Baba say so? Before giving your explanation, you should say- why Baba had said so. Else, is there any point in just in delivering YOUR OWN LECTURE?
From the Golden Age it applies changing of the body in soul-consciousness. It does not apply to the Confluence Age. In the Confluence Age we don't change our body, we don't leave it.
Again just half baked reply. You may specify which all are the souls in which body, and say- whether the body is also pure or just soul is pure. If you cannot or do not like to name the personalities, it is left to you.
4.5 lakhs.
If you search in the internet, it says- a snake leaves its skin several times. But, your point does not agree with it. If possible, you may post the Murli point saying 3-4 times, and also explain - how many times Mr Dixit had left his skin and in which all years- like he can give dates/years - of different shooting of each age, etc.
Also- if there is any unlimited meaning in this , you may explain even that.
It was mentioned in the material I posted.

""Within those 18 years (from 2018 till 2036), they will have to pass through three-four stages. The body won’t be completely 100 percent rejuvenated at once. For example, if a person falls sick for a long time, his upper skin sheds off and a new skin grows. So, it will happen in the same way. There will be transformation the first time, the second time, the third time and at the fourth time the body is completely rejuvenated."

Sorry, it is said 2-3 times.

“The Father sits and explains the meaning. Just like a snake sheds its old skin on its own and a new skin grows, it won’t be said for it that it leaves one body and enters another. No. The example of changing skin is only [mentioned] for snakes. It can see its skin. Just like the clothes are removed, the snake also sheds its skin. It gets another [skin], the snake remains alive. But it is not that it remains immortal forever. It will change two-three skins and then die.” (Mu.18.07.70, end of pg.2)
but only God can be recognized without a body.
In the Murli it is said that I also need a body. A soul can be recognized only through a body, including the soul of Shiv and we recognize it through the knowledge he gives.

Another point about the name being given to the soul is with the religious fathers that when they come, when a new souls comes in the body the name gets changed from Jesus to Christ, from Sidhartha to Buddha.
"dead body of Brahma"*
"Of" indicates something separate from that - the "dead body", to which that body used to belong. In the same way, whilst alive, you will say the living body of Brahma. In both ways you will be indication the soul, in the first case that is currently inside and the then - that has departed.
That body can never be called as "dead body of soul of Krishna". [even though the same soul plays role of Krishna too in its next birth].
You can even say it like that.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 21 May 2016

sita wrote:It was mentioned in the material I posted.
It is not mentioned, as required. I asked full description.
1)Would soul of Mr Dixit be in sleep/coma stage for those 18 years? Is this the shortest period?
2)Rest, among the 4.5 lakh souls, would take more time to rejuvenate the body? If, yes, what would be maximum time? (for the last couple in the 4.5 lakh souls)
3)As soon as body of Mr Dixit becomes purified FULLY (in 2036?), does he gives birth to G Aged Radha and Krishna?
4)So, Conf. Aged Narayan - whom PBKs believe to be real world emperor ruling or getting revealed to the WHOLE WORLD OF 7 BILLION SOULS- would be ruling just 2 years? - from 2016 till 2018?
5) And- the process of B so V in one second- does that happen in 2016, or 2018 or in 2036?
6)Will name of either soul or the body of Mr. Dixit and sister Vedanti change in all THESE PHASES? If yes, how?
Sorry, it is said 2-3 times.

“The Father sits and explains the meaning. Just like a snake sheds its old skin on its own and a new skin grows, it won’t be said for it that it leaves one body and enters another. No. The example of changing skin is only [mentioned] for snakes. It can see its skin. Just like the clothes are removed, the snake also sheds its skin. It gets another [skin], the snake remains alive. But it is not that it remains immortal forever. It will change two-three skins and then die.” (Mu.18.07.70, end of pg.2)
Thank you for the Murli point. But, note that- the Murli point here says- after the 2-3 times, the snake DIES. But, PBKs believe here- that Mr Dixit does NOT DIE, after the 2-3 times. he then lives for more than 150 years. Hence the above Murli point does not tally or apply fully, AT ALL. Just assumptions and guesswork, as usual! But, let us see what more will come up.
In the Murli it is said that I also need a body. A soul can be recognized only through a body, including the soul of Shiv, and we recognize it through The Knowledge he gives.
Here- I meant that- to think of God, there is no need to think of any particular body, ONCE the complete Knowledge is already received, correctly understood and imbibed even to a little extent by the concerned soul. Murli point says- God is FAMOUS WITHOUT body. Of course, to recognize his role fully, there is need of body. But, God can be felt without body, once the soul develops soul-consciousness. A human soul cannot be felt without a body, UNTIL and UNLESS the concerned souls also develop soul-consciousness.
- Mu point No. 02- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ddh#p12654

A PROOF THAT GOD CAN BE felt without body is- in Bhakti, when people say from heart- Oh God, etc, it reaches him/destination (though not fully accurate), but gives lesser fruit.
Another point about the name being given to the soul is with the religious fathers that when they come, when a new souls comes in the body the name gets changed from Jesus to Christ, from Sidhartha to Buddha.
OK, that is why I had appreciated your arguments. But, still it DOES NOT cover fully. Even though the name changes, it again is for (related to) the body, and not JUST to the soul. Because it (THAT ROLE) is for that temporary period only, TILL that soul plays part in THAT BODY ONLY.
The above example what you have given is unnecessary, as the same body- Lekhraj Kirpalani - has two names- one as Lekhraj Kirpalani, another as Prajapita Brahma(after 1936). We have this perfect example.
But- here it is slightly different- ShivBaba is karan-kaaraaavanhaar, but there- the religious heads are not karaavanhaars, they are just karanhaars.
The religious heads after entering to the body ride the Chariot/body through out their life. But- here- ShivBaba does not ride the Chariot whole day. THAT IS THE BEAUTY, SPECIALITY AND POWER OF GOD. THAT IS WHY EVEN WHEN GOD ENTERS A BODY HIS NAME SHIV DOES NOT GET DILUTED.
Whatever it is- hope you are able to realize- HOW WRONG it is to say just by blatantly- "name does not apply to body" - even when Bhagavaanucaach (Murli point) says- OTHERWISE. CORRECT CONTEXT should NEVER BE LOST or DILUTED, which then would lead to further CORRUPTION & ADULTERATION!
"Of" indicates something separate from that - the "dead body", to which that body used to belong.
That is why I had said- your arguments are OK. I already have said the balance between the soul and body*. A human soul can never be identified/felt/appreciated without body, because it has ups and downs. But, God is karmaateet. His value does not increase even if he plays role of kalyaanakaari- as he is the real NISHKAAMI - ONE WHO DOES NOT EAT ANY FRUIT OF HIS OWN ACTIONS. How great most beloved, almighty God is.

* - But- you took only half - and gave your conclusion and even did not hesitate to teach others your half knowledge. This is what happens in AIVV.
You can even say like that.
It will not be fully correct, because that soul takes 84/83 bodies. Which body you are going to refer? Still it does not become clear. You will have to say- "the PRESENT body of soul of Krishna"

ALL THESE SHOW PBKs IMPLY IN THEIR TEACHINGS THAT - THEY GIVE TITLE Krishna TO BRAHMA IN CONF AGE ITSELF, EVEN WHEN Murli POINTS SPECIFICALLY APPLY TO G AGE.

IF PBKs ARE INTERESTED ONLY IN THE CONF AGE, WHY DO THEY THEN THINK OF THE WHOLE Kalpa? WHY NOT EVERY TIME SHED/TRANSFORM THEIR 'BODY', LIKE A SNAKE, AND HAVE JUST ONE FIXED BODY ONLY- TO MAKE THEIR Chariot AS REALLY PERMANENT, THROUGHOUT THE CYCLE?

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 22 May 2016

There are some wild suggestions in your questions and some questions which have already been answered. I will look again to see if I could answer something.

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 23 May 2016

I will explain without years. The new world is coming according to the drama, the cycle of time rotates and change is predestined to happen. But Baba has said that we are moving the drama, it means that it moves according to our effort. It will not be that destruction happens before establishment is completed. And the task is put on hold due to the BKs. In many trance messages it is said that the Advance Party is asking when will they be ready.

Transformation is a matter of a collective effort and it has different stages, but souls are also number-wise. First, when the Supreme Father comes and gives knowledge, he creates the Subtle Region through that. He creates a realm in which we could reside with our thoughts. We start thinking about the knowledge and we start forgetting the world. All the business of the world will collapse and only one Godly business of knowledge will remain. All souls will gather in the Subtle Region, before going to Paramdham. We can now go and come back to the Subtle Region, but the moment we will leave the world permanently we would become angels. We would think only of knowledge. Souls become number-wise in this.

Suppose a time has come all souls are busy only with thoughts of knowledge. Through churning we get to know about the secrets of the drama, of our self, of our part of many births and the births of others. When we have reached completeness, churning will stop, we would have developed unshakable faith. These are the first stages of transformation of our soul. When our soul gets transformed, the body follows.

We get the inheritance of both mukti and jeevanmukti. The bigger the difference between the two, the longer the period of the first. all souls receive jeevan mukti, but some receive it for longer period and some for shorter. Some souls stay in Paramdham for longer and some for shorter. At the end, when all would realize their part, they will be happy about their own part. Karmic accounts of all souls finish together. It means now the souls, like Ram and Krishna have also not finished their accounts. We may know about their part, but practically they have not become that. When the old accounts finish new accounts start. Souls will fly to Paramdham according to their initial attraction and belonging in different sections. The way they go is the way they come. The one who guides us there will guide us here. Souls will go there number-wise and come number-wise. When the vibration of the many souls of the world will not be there anymore, the transformation of matter will become possible for the few souls who would have remained. Thew would be the first to go and to come. Go soon - come soon. Souls will leave their bodies and slowly be descending back to their own bodies. When these bodies also get purified, souls will start descending in the palace of the womb. By the end, total of 900 000 souls of parents and children would have descended for the start of Satyug.

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 23 May 2016

SM 19-10-72(1 or 3):- Ab paarlowkik Baap kahte hain yah puraane sharir kaa bhaan chodo. Gyaan se, apney buddhi se is sharir may rahte bhaan chodnaa hai. Yah abhi samajhte hain jaise sarp khal chodtaa hai aur nayi letaa hai, TOH YAH BAATH ABHI SE NAHIN LAGTA. Satyug SE LAGTI HAI. Toh tum bhi Satyug se lekar pahley khal chodnaa shuru karenge. – 169, 169- [= SM 18-10-77 (above)]

= Now, Father says- leave the feelings of this old body. Through knowledge, through one's own intellect, even while being in this body, one should leave its feelings. Now, you understand the concept of snake leaving its old skin and taking new one. So, this matter does not apply from now. It applies from G Age. So, you begin to leave your body (so easily like a snake).
It can also be that it is about the Golden Age within the Confluence Age. At the time the Murli was spoken it was not about that time, but in the future, in the Golden Age within the Confluence Age - changing of the body will be taking place.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 23 May 2016

sita wrote:I will explain without years....
Why not with years? When PBKs use the years, - 1936, 1976, 2008, 2016, 2018, 2036, AND MANY MANY MORE - to explain their SO-CALLED 'SHOOTING' PERIODS, and BOAST we know the meaning of B so V in one second, are SUDDENLY hesitant here to explain it WITH YEARS?

OK, if you cannot, you may just explain- how it is B so V in one second, and V so B in 5000 yrs. [Do not bother about date- but explain fully/properly- which all souls are playing this role, and how, and explain each different phase/condition of soul and body- both- whether they will be pure or impure, have knowledge or not, etc, etc].
It can also be that it is about the Golden Age within the Confluence Age. At the time the Murli was spoken it was not about that time, but in the future, in the Golden Age within the Confluence Age - changing of the body will be taking place.
Again just an attempt to manipulate, and make COMPLETE FOOLS of your own selves, NOT OTHERS!
--First of all- no Murli point says- Golden Age within Conf. Age.
-- And- the Murli point says- snake "dies after the 2-3 times" - great blow to PBKs, in IGNORANTLY using this Murli point!
--Mu Point also says- from Golden Age, you begin to leave the skin.- which implies it is not for one birth, but for many births. [OK, here- you may again succeed in your arguments by saying- from G Age, it is without consciousness/knowledge, but here in Conf. Age, it is with knowledge- ]. Further- you have not explained - whether the period for the 2-3 times is 18 years, and will soul of Mr Dixit be in coma/sleep stage? If yes, will he have knowledge at that time? [So, your explanation would again be just a manipulation, to continue to SLEEP in the 'sleep of Kumbhakarna'].

There are other Murli points about rejuvenating of soul and body. Do they tally with PBK view/claims?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests