Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

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For PBKs who are affiliated to AIVV, and supporting 'Advanced Knowledge'.
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mbbhat
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 21 Nov 2016

# Inability to understand even basics and just twisting:-
So you accept that even Shankar has a corporeal body and is not only subtle?
1) Who has denied it? Every soul will have corporeal body, is it not? Even if I believe subtle Mama could be Shankar, I also believe Mama has taken birth - so corporeal body too.
---You have not been able to understand even the a, b, c, of what I have written. Have not I already told you all these earlier?
The BK world knows Brahma, but they don't know Shiv, because knowing Shiv does not mean knowing point of light, but his acts and he acts through three murtis.
2) So- in PBK view- Brahma first takes birth, but Vishnu and Shankar do not take birth, so not together?- again goes against the Murli point*

* - In BK view- it is simple as already said- in 1936, when Baba creates a plan of Subtle Region, all the three BVS have taken birth together, just as a map is drawn. So- in that context- all the three BVS have taken birth together. - Post No.s 24 to 28 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... =25&t=1167
This point applies to the PBK world, where they know Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar, but Shivjayanti is yet to come.
3) Due to inability to reply, you are just twisting. Murli point says- world knows B,V, S, but not Shiv.
So- do PBKs know only B,V, and S- not Shiv? YES or NO???

4) It is not said about Jayanti- which you have introduced in double standard way.
----But, again, take even that freedom. But, then apply the same to all- B,V, S and Shiv together, is it not?
AND IF YOU BELIEVE THAT SHIV JAYANTI HAS STILL NOT TAKEN PLACE, THAT CLEARLY MEANS THAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY DECLARING THAT YOU ARE A 'KUKH VANSHAVALI' BRAHMIN OF A BODILY GURU,
IN THIS Confluence Age, IS IT NOT???


Write properly what you believe or claim. Is Jayanti here said in BK world, PBK world, or outside world?

Then explain/express properly to which world BVS have taken birth, but not Shiv.
Do the so-called Gyani tu atmas have to be educated even in these basic matters???

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 21 Nov 2016

The Father reveals the children and the Father is almighty so his task will be successful, so the task of the revelation of the Trimurti by the Father is first. Just like in the beginning the part of Brahma got clear first and only later it got revealed that it is ShivBaba working. In the same way later Prajapita is revealed.

Then it is the task of the children to reveal the Father. It is said that the birth of the Father and the children takes place at the same time. It will be said about when the souls reach soul consciousness and become spiritual children of the spiritual Father.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 22 Nov 2016

Just beating drum for the benefit of your own self, and beating around the bushes, instead of replying to the point. If you are interested to address properly, you may. Else, it is left to you.


= RESPONSE =
The Father reveals the children and the Father is almighty so his task will be successful, so the task of the revelation of the Trimurti by the Father is first. Just like in the beginning the part of Brahma got clear first and only later it got revealed that it is ShivBaba working. In the same way later Prajapita is revealed.
Here it means that God, the Father has ALREADY REVEALED the Trimurti to the children FIRST, and since 'Prajapita' is ONE of the Trimurti, it means that God has ALREADY REVEALED REAL PrajaPita - who is Brahma Baba or the soul of DLR. So where does the question of revealing ANOTHER 'Prajapita' arise, EXCEPT for the revelation of the FALSE 'Prajapita' of the Godly Form of Ravan or Maya?
Then it is the task of the children to reveal the Father. It is said that the birth of the Father and the children takes place at the same time. It will be said about when the souls reach soul consciousness and become spiritual children of the spiritual Father.
The Righteous Children have ALREADY been REVEALING, BOTH, the 'Parlokik' Father, (who is REAL ShivBaba), AS WELL AS, the 'Alokik' Father, (who is REAL PrajaPita Brahma or soul of DLR).
If the PBKs have NOT DEVELOPED EVEN the SLIGHTEST DEGREE of soul-consciousness, EVEN NOW, AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, then that explains why they are NOT ABLE to reveal the 'Parlokik' Father TILL NOW, since they are TOTALLY body-conscious, and are therefore involved in revealing the corporeal father, who is their bodily 'guru', MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba', 'Prajapita', etc., to enable them to carry out the 'shooting' or HiranyaKashyap & Ravan Rajya, and claim their inheritance of sovereignty in Ravan Rajya!

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 24 Nov 2016

Here it means that God, the Father has ALREADY REVEALED the Trimurti to the children FIRST, and since 'Prajapita' is ONE of the Trimurti, it means that God has ALREADY REVEALED REAL PrajaPita - who is Brahma Baba or the soul of DLR. So where does the question of revealing ANOTHER 'Prajapita' arise, EXCEPT for the revelation of the FALSE 'Prajapita' of the Godly Form of Ravan or Maya?
Brahma is only the first murti of the Trimurti that is revealed and then the second is revealed and then the third. Brahma is only a titleholder Prajapita that becomes Prajapita to the Brahmins only for a small period. But Brahma is not considred as the first man. Even in the scriptures there is someone that is before him who is Shankar. He is known as Vishvanath - the master of the world.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 16 Dec 2016

There was a discussion regarding Mama and Baba entering children.

8.1.78 "मैँ इस तन मेँ प्रवेश करता हूँ। यह मुकर्रर तन है। दुसरे कोई मेँ कब आते ही नहीँ। हाँ, बच्चोँ मेँ कब मम्म, कब बाबा आ सकते हैँ मदद करने लिए।"

8.1.78 "I enter in this body. This is a fixed body. I never even come in anyone else. Yes, Mama and Baba can sometimes come in the children to help."

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 16 Dec 2016

sita wrote:Brahma is only the first murti of the Trimurti that is revealed and then the second is revealed and then the third. Brahma is only a titleholder Prajapita that becomes Prajapita to the Brahmins only for a small period. But Brahma is not considred as the first man. Even in the scriptures there is someone that is before him who is Shankar. He is known as Vishvanath - the master of the world.
1) Only in PBK view. No Murli point says so, or the scriptures. In scriptures, Brahma is said as GGGF - means first man.
There was a discussion regarding Mama and Baba entering children.

8.1.78 "मैँ इस तन मेँ प्रवेश करता हूँ। यह मुकर्रर तन है। दुसरे कोई मेँ कब आते ही नहीँ। हाँ, बच्चोँ मेँ कब मम्म, कब बाबा आ सकते हैँ मदद करने लिए।"
2) I have never denied- regarding Mama- baba entering into children. I have said- even if Mama had taken birth, her subtle complete stage will do service automatically. Better read Murli points properly - Post No. 94b) - dated SM 18-12-72(3) http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 4b+#p12146

It says- those who leave body in acahal, adol, karmaateet stage will sit in Subtle Region, can enter in children and even speak Murlis.

BUt, PBKs distort the Murli points and write as said here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593 claiming Mama and B baba study through children. The word STUDY has been put by Mr. Dixit.

3) Now- do PBKs accept what is said in Murli? The Murli point says- Mama enter in children and even speak Murlis. Do PBKs agree with this?

Since PBKs believe- you should listen only to one, then they are caught in their own claims, so- in their view- such words should not be listened!
If they NOW say- Mama speaks Murli (through whom- sister Vedanti?! - in PBK view??)

What baba says- is subtle stage (body) of Mama can enter in any children and do service. But, PBKs believe she can enter only/mainly sister Vedanti only.

In BK view:- Suppose say- any BK sister is reading Murli, or doing any service. Mama (her subtle stage) can enter her or even any children and do the service.

4) An Avyakt Murli point clearly says- through positive thoughts kaarobaar can automatically happen. - dated 3-10-83 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 69+#p14353

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 16 Dec 2016

It is OK to say that Brahma is the first man, because man means one who has mind, one who thinks. Prajapita is also said to be impure in the Murli, whilst Shankar is said to be pure angel in the Murli. With regards to reaching the stage of non-thinking and a stage of a deity that is a stage of peaceful mind and soul-consciousness, this is the stage of Shankar who is considered the first deity.

Through Brahma, vicious monkeys and sorrow-giver demons are made men and Brahmins, and their stone like intellect is transformed with the waters of knowledge and the heat of Yoga, but Brahma is incomplete stage and Brahmins are effort makers.

You can probably see the Trimurti as representation of the 3 stages of like a man, an angel and a deity. But on the path of Bhakti the greatest deity is Shankar. There are various stories on the path of Bhakti, but you might know this one about how the fifth head of Brahma got cut, that Brahma and Vishnu were quareling who is greater and Shiva appeared as a pillar that has no beginning or end and they went to search for its beginning or end and Vishnu accepted he has no beginning but Brahma claimed he found the beginning or end, but he lied so Shiva cut his head. This was the story I was referring to. It is about Brahma claiming to be first and Vishnu claiming to be first because Brahma emerged from the navel of Vishnu. But Shiva appeared and said that none of them is first and that he is first. This was the story I was referring to. There is another story about the fifth head also.

The title Vishvanath is also proof. There is one lord of the world. He is regarded as born out of himself. He has no beginning nor end and is eternal. OK, there is a story about his birth in the earlier scriptures, but there again he gains power over his Father Prajapati, he becomes more powerful than hem and the only lord. The amount of worship of Shiva is proof that it is not a secondary deity and the lack of worship of Brahma is also because he got cursed by Shiva about the lie, but also speaks about his importance.

But we believe that when it is said Brahma or Prajapita, there are many Brahmas that are like the many heads of Brahma and one of them is Parambrahma. He is the first man. For us he is equal to Shankar it is the same person. Heads for us mean personalities, like the heads of Ravan. There are many personalities that unite with the different thinking and rule the world of Ravan.

The other stories about cutting the head of Brahma is because that head was speaking in an evil way and Baba has explained this meaning also, or that he was having a lustful eye for his daughter. Anyway he is depicted as lustful, whilst Shiva is very strict, he burns Kamadeva. OK you will find also different myths about Shiva. I don't know if we will go far in discussing the scriptures. The proof that Brahma Baba is not the first man is that he is believed to be the first child. Obviously his Father would be before him.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 16 Dec 2016

3) Now- do PBKs accept what is said in Murli? The Murli point says- Mama enter in children and even speak Murlis. Do PBKs agree with this?

Since PBKs believe- you should listen only to one, then they are caught in their own claims, so- in their view- such words should not be listened!
If they NOW say- Mama speaks Murli (through whom- Sister Vedanti?! - in PBK view??)

What Baba says- is subtle stage (body) of Mama can enter in any children and do service. But, PBKs believe she can enter only/mainly Sister Vedanti only.
Yes, Mama and Baba can enter in many children and give the power of speech. But as it is said in the Murli you have provided, new points will be given only through the fixed Chariot.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 17 Dec 2016

sita wrote:Yes, Mama and Baba can enter in many children and give the power of speech. But as it is said in the Murli you have provided, new points will be given only through the fixed Chariot.
So far PBKs have not been able to prove either Mama puts effort through PBK children (what they usually claim), nor Mr Dixit as fixed Chariot.

Still for the new points, Mr. Dixit depends on Avyakt Murlis spoken through DG via subtle Brahma too. - :laugh:

It is very clear new points- either Sakar Murlis or the Avyakt Murlis are coming through Lekhraj Kirpalani (either corporeal or the subtle one).

So-PBKs are back at square one. If PBKs have any more Murli points welcome.let us see. That too would be addressed.
-----------
sita wrote:It is OK to say that Brahma is the first man, ...
Blah, blah, blah- just vague replies.
You can probably see the Trimurti as representation of the 3 stages of like a man, an angel and a deity. But on the path of Bhakti the greatest deity is Shankar.
So far PBKs have not been able to prove Mr. Dixit is Shankar. First prove that dear. By saying Shankr is highest, PBKs gain nothing.

BTW- In some stories in scriptures, Shankar may be shown as high, in some it is Vishnu. But, the first man is always Brahma.

I have no objection whoever is shown as high, because I believe all are one. Baba has clearly said - you are master trimurtis. So- each and every Bk is a trumurti numberwise. But, by bifurcating the roles in Trimurti, PBKs have committed spiritual suicides.
The title Vishvanath is also proof. There is one lord of the world. He is regarded as born out of himself. He has no beginning nor end and is eternal.
Obviously said to God Shiv.
But, PBKs themselves say- Mr Dixit took birth from their AD/KD! - :laugh:
But we believe ...
PBKs may believe anything. That is OK.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 17 Dec 2016

It is very clear new points- either Sakar Murlis or the Avyakt Murlis are coming through Lekhraj Kirpalani (either corporeal or the subtle one).
But in the Avyakt Vanis there are no new points coming.
Obviously said to God Shiv.
But Baba has said that I don't become master of the world.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 17 Dec 2016

If PBKs have any more Murli points welcome.let us see. That too would be addressed.
How do you rate this compilation of points with scanned Murlis attached to it?

http://www.adhyatmik-university.com/sac ... khand.aspx

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 17 Dec 2016

sita wrote:How do you rate* this compilation of points with scanned Murlis attached to it?
http://www.adhyatmik-university.com/sac ... khand.aspx
1) Physical effort is to be appreciated. Like Baba says- even the scientists and devotees, in lowkik, make a lot of effort. So, there is absolutely no doubt, that Virendra Dev Dixit has put in PLENTY of EFFORT in order to MISINTERPRET, MISREPRESENT & MISAPPROPRIATE the Pure Versions of God, to be able to be the BEST instrument of Ravan or Maya, to carry out the 'shooting' of HiranyaKashyap & Ravan Rajya, in the Confluence Age, while DELUSIVELY believing himself, and ALSO making his BLIND followers DELUSIVELY believe, that he is the BEST instrument of REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God!
Viewers may like to understand the REAL TRUTH, more comprehensively, from the following post, in another topic, in another sub-forum, in the link below:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593&p=52296#p52296

I said about - if PBKs have any Murli points which indicate that their knowledge is higher- (what they claim). Like- addressed here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593 , and viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2611&p=49610&hilit=Lekhraj#p49610 and at many other places.

In these places- it looks AS IF PBKs have something great to prove, but in fact, they are just BLUNDERS and DOWNRIGHT LIES!

2) So- if you/PBKs still have any more Murli points through which they act like miya-mittu, you may mention.

But, the effort of this link is to be appreciated, no doubt. Thank you for the link. It is DEFINITELY useful to those who are involved with the 'shooting' of Bhaktimarg or the 'Path of Devotion' of Ravan Rajya, in the Confluence Age.
--------------
3) Thanks for this - http://www.adhyatmik-university.com/Web ... -05-70.pdf

The Murli point says- "Shankar ka aisaa wonderful part hai jo tum vishwaas kar na sako. = The part of Shankar is so wonderful that you may not believe it. "

But, if you see the adjacent sentences- they do not tally with PBK philosophy.

In the whole page, the wonderful part becomes almost clear. Baba is referring to - how the PHYSICAL destruction takes place. There are few more wonderful parts like- said in SM 18-12-72 (3) - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 4b+#p12146 - which is just discussed above. Baba is saying those who leave body, in such a stage, will reside in Subtle Region, can enter into children, speak Murlis, etc, etc. Are not these wonderful parts? Even what is is said here- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 70+#p14353 is again, a wonderful part.

4) Even till today- the Subtle Region parts are still not easy to understand or explain. It is not possible to explain directly or in literal sense. ONE HAS TO ESSENTIALLY DEVELOP OWN SUBTLE STAGE to be able to ACTUALLY EXPERIENCE SAME. Note that in both of these Murlis - Shankar, as well as, the Subtle Region- ShivBaba has said- there is no mahatw (no significance) in these - as those parts are going to happen automatically (this is in my perspective - yet to know - but there is some logic in it).

5) But, Mr. Dixit just hijacked it, and the gullible PBKs took it for granted - just from the words- "you may not believe it" - as if it applies to the RIDICULOUS claims of Virendra Dev Dixit and AIVV. If you see the work of PBK Shankar - so many literature, so many blogs, websites, the Chariot moving gali2, having many mobile phones, etc., etc. - do you think- there is no mahatw? And- baba says- "part of Shankar is very less, only up to above ". But, PBKs believe 33 yrs for each Trimurti. And- PBKs believe their Shankar is playing role below in this corporeal world (both physically, as well as intellectually- being controlled by a ghost!)
-----Even though they claim Shankar means one who is in Avyakt stage while being in vyakt body, they themselves agree that he is being controlled by some ghost! - :laugh:

6) Compare the wonderful part of Shankar - said above to another Murli point on Shankar- http://www.adhyatmik-university.com/Web ... -04-73.pdf

Baba is saying AGAIN, ABOUT PHYSICAL destruction which is going to happen in the end.
But, Mr.Dixit took it otherwise, did lots of juggling exercises - and then claims Prajapita is Shankar. - whereas Murli clearly says- Shankar CANNOT be called as Prajapita.

Then PBKs FINALLY write - "We believe, we believe....". - :sad:

*7) Thanks for the website, once again. But, it is a MOST pitiable state of the PBKs - One will doubt even to the extent- DO PBKs HAVE EVEN JUST TWO PHYSICAL EYES, TO CLEARLY SEE, WHAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY READING ??? - FORGET ABOUT the THIRD EYE or the DIVINE EYE to ACTUALLY COMPREHEND, the DEEPER and SUBTLER ASPECTS of the KNOWLEDGE ??? -
Error No. 39 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593&p=52296#p52296

Even a child will not commit such mistakes, but the so-called gyaani tu atmas do it. And- PBKs believe they are following Srimath of God - even when they interpret Murli points in the COMPLETE OPPOSITE sense - CLEARLY PROVING that they are following the IMPURE 'manmat', 'parmat', 'kumat', 'Mayavimat' & 'Ravanmat', while MERRILY FOOLING themselves that they are following the PURE Shrimat of God!

So the MOST APPROPRIATE response to your query below -
sita wrote:How do you rate* this compilation of points with scanned Murlis attached to it?
http://www.adhyatmik-university.com/sac ... khand.aspx
would be - COMPLETE Spiritual HOGWASH, of the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya, in the Confluence Age!!!

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 19 Dec 2016

Why would noting points be 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya? Baba has said to note points. And,how is giving the source for the point, acting as Hiranyakashyap?

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 19 Dec 2016

sita wrote:Why would noting points be shooting of Ravan Rajya? Baba has said to note points. And how is giving the source for the point acting as Hiranyakashyap?
Baba has said- whatever karma one does in the Kingdom of Ravan, or the Night of the Cycle, would be a sin (since people do not have ACCURATE Knowledge). Similarly, with WRONG understanding, or ignorance, even if PBKs do any sort of churning on Knowledge, it will be like 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya- like in Bhakti, people talk about God, give lectures on God, and do extensive service in the name of God, but it is still Ravan Rajya, is it not?

Baba has said- mahatw seva kaa naheen, sevaa bhav ka hai = Significance is not of the service what you do, it is the CORRECT 'bhaav', or the CORRECT intention of the service. So- the physical service will have importance only if the BHAV or INTENTION is CORRECT, in ACCORDANCE with the ORIGINAL, PURE INTENTION of God. For the bhaav to be right, one should be on the right path, with right emotions (pure feelings and good wishes). If the path is incorrect (blind), then even if is there is SUPPOSEDLY good intentions, (which are ACTUALLY CAMOUFLAGED with ignorance/arrogance, even though the concerned individual may NOT be AWARE of same), the result would be like chaach (butter-milk), instead of makhkhan (butter).

A DEEP and SUBTLE intellect is required to CORRECTLY COMPREHEND the SUBTLE DIFFERENCE above!

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 20 Dec 2016

Knowledge means soul-consciousness. People sin because they are body-conscious and whatever they do in body-consciousness is sin. Whatever they do in soul-consciousness is not sin. But this is something internal about how much everyone has reached what stage.

Baba has also said that in sleeping, in doing Bhakti, one does not sin. I know you appreciate the effort of collecting Murli points. There is certainly no sin in following Shrimat. There is sin in following your own impure mind or the impure mind of others. Shrimat we can follow with closed eyes.

The feeling behind it is presenting it to the world. Giving knowledge is no doubt a great charity and not a sin.

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