Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

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For PBKs who are affiliated to AIVV, and supporting 'Advanced Knowledge'.
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sita
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 24 Dec 2015

mu. 25.6.73 "Sukshamvatanvasi Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar ka bhi mandir yahan he, kyonki ate to he, na?"

mu. 25.6.73 "The temple of the Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar who live in the Subtle Region is also here, because, they do come, is not it?"
-------------

Additional comment by mbbhat:- OK, all the souls will come. Is there any suprise in this? How do these Murli points prove claims of AIVV that Mr. Dixit is Shankar and their Kamala Devi is Jagadamba?

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 25 Dec 2015

Regarding Mama entering into children.

22.7.72 "मम्मा का भल शरीर नहिं है तो भी पुरुषार्थ करती रहती है, सर्विस पर जति है. बच्चों के तन में विराजमान हो पतितों को पावन बनाने का रास्ता बतति है."

22.7.72 "Even though Mama does not have a body, still she makes effort, she goes on service, sparkles in the bodies of children and tells the way to make the impure ones pure."

8.1.75. "यह मुकर्रर तन है. दुसरे कोइ मे कब अते ही नहिं. हां, बच्चों में कब मम्मा, कब बाबा आ सक्ते हैं मद्द करने के लिए."

8.1.75 "This is a fixed body, he never comes in anyone else. Yes, in the children sometimes Mama, sometimes Baba can come to help."

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 29 Dec 2015

sita wrote:mu.8.2.78 "Behad ke bhi do bap hain. To ma bhi zarur do hongi. Ek Jagadamba ma, dusri ye bhi mata thari."

mu.8.2.78 "Unlimited fathers are also two. So mother will certainly also be two. One is Jagadamba, the other one, this one is also mother."

One mother is Brahma, another Jagadamba, one Father is the supreme Father Shiv, then we have one more unlimited Father. Brahma Baba is not mother and Father both. You are mother and Father both is said for the supreme Father, who here is said separately.
The underlined line is again a MAJOR BLIND BLUNDER. It has been said many times in the SMs as well as AVs that Brahma Baba is both father and mother. Even highlighted on this forum by many members -
Post No. 60 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... t=70#p9071

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=492&p=42700&hilit=adam#p42700

So- the two unlimited fathers are ShivBaba and Brahma Baba (in the HIGHEST sense), and the two unlimited mothers are Brahma Baba and Mama, (in another particular sense, as per above Murli point - since ShivBaba and Brahma Baba are ALSO unlimited mothers, in the HIGHEST sense).

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 29 Dec 2015

Regarding Mama entering into children.

22.7.72 "मम्मा का भल शरीर नहिं है तो भी पुरुषार्थ करती रहती है, सर्विस पर जति है. बच्चों के तन में विराजमान हो पतितों को पावन बनाने का रास्ता बतति है."

22.7.72 "Even though Mama does not have a body, still she makes effort, she goes on service, sparkles in the bodies of children and tells the way to make the impure ones pure."
Do these support AIVV?

Roy and other PBKs have earlier (in other threads on this forum) WRONGLY interpreted similar points regarding Mama and B Baba to mean that they can enter others' bodies to continue to study and make effort through others' bodies - COMPLETE MISINTERPRETATION of the point/s in question!
Above point says that - "even though Mama does not have a body still she continues to make effort and goes on service". What does this ACTUALLY mean? Does not ShivBaba Himself, who also does not have a body of His own, continue to make the effort and do service till now? ShivBaba does not make the effort for Himself or do the service for Himself, but for the benefit of others, is it not? So Mama also continues to make effort and goes on service for the benefit of others. This point DOES NOT AT ALL indicate that she is still incomplete and makes effort for herself, as misunderstood/misrepresented by the PBKs.
By sparkling or 'entering' into the bodies of other children Mama shows the way to THEM to become pure from impure, and not the other way around!!!
What the PBKs are mistakenly claiming is JUST THE OPPOSITE of what the Murli points ACTUALLY MEAN, and they are SIMPLY unable to PERCEIVE the DIFFERENCE, owing to their body-conscious attitude and vision!!!

Of course, Mama may enter some children. [Again- we cannot say - whether it really happens or just Baba does that service, as per drama, and their stage]. Put in posts 130, 131 and 133 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=180

Also- Post No. 200 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=270 - here, even if a soul has attained karmaateet stage, it can still continue to earn.

Also Post No. 170 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 230#p14353 -
Here, Baba says - Baba himself will use the stage of children for service.

In post No. 133- Baba warns that some may also misuse and say - Mama enters in us/these. So, take care.

Baba has also said - there is nothing special in these.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 29 Dec 2015

The underlined line is again a MAJOR BLIND BLUNDER. It has been said many times in the SMs as well as AVs that Brahma Baba is both father and mother. Even highlighted on this forum by many members -
Post No. 60 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... t=70#p9071

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=492&p=42700&hilit=adam#p42700

So- the two unlimited fathers are ShivBaba and Brahma Baba (in the HIGHEST sense), and the two unlimited mothers are Brahma Baba and Mama, (in another particular sense, as per above Murli point - since ShivBaba and Brahma Baba are ALSO unlimited mothers, in the HIGHEST sense).
In the link it is said....Matpita is the incorporeal. If matpita is the incorporeal, that is the soul of Shiv, and if Brahma Baba is also matpita, then Shiv and Brahma Baba makes two mothers and two fathers, is that right. Then Jagadamba is extra.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 30 Dec 2015

sita wrote:In the link it is said....Matpita is the incorporeal. If matpita is the incorporeal, that is the soul of Shiv, and if Brahma Baba is also matpita, then Shiv and Brahma Baba makes two mothers and two fathers, is that right. Then Jagadamba is extra.
The reply was anticipated.

Quite a number of Murli points on MaatPita with comments are put in Posts Nos. 6 and 7. The concerned Murli point is mentioned as Murli point No. 22- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 4056#p4056

So, I believe ShivBaba plays role of just Father/owner or maatpita(both mother and Father= practical creator), but he can never play role of just MOTHER. Because if ShivBaba plays role of just mother, then it implies there would be some Father (above him) too, which becomes illogical.

BTW, whom do PBKs believe as two unlimited fathers and unlimited mothers?

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 31 Dec 2015

One unlimited Father is Shiv Bap, another is the corporeal, human Father Prajapita or Ram Bap, one mother is Jagadamba Om Radhe (or the one through whom she plays part through entering) and other mother is Brahma Baba (or the one through whom he plays part through entering).

I am posting one point about the matter that Baba means the combination of the incorporeal and the corporeal

“Bacche samajh gae hen, ashariri aur sharirdhari ka milan he. Unko tum kehte ho Baba. Yah wonderful part he na. mu.” 9.3.89

“Children have understood it is a combination of the bodiless one and the one who takes a body. You call him Baba. This is a wonderful part, is it not.” 9.3.89

There is this point about Shiv entering Shankar. It is very obvious, so I would like to check with the whole Murli.

“Shiv ne Shankar me pravesh kiya to Shiv-Shankar ko mila dete he.”16.2.73

“Shiv entered in Shankar so they combine Shiv-Shankar.” 16.2.73

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 31 Dec 2015

sita wrote:One unlimited Father is Shiv Bap, another is the corporeal, human Father Prajapita or Ram Bap, one mother is Jagadamba Om Radhe (or the one through whom she plays part through entering) and other mother is Brahma Baba (or the one through whom he plays part through entering).
Again a mis-interpretation. How come "OR"? Then the number of mothers would be 4.

Another illogical thing here is- PBKs believe B Baba enters even Mr. Dixit. But, they are not ready to give title Prajapita to him, EVEN THOUGH THE SOUL IN A SUBTLE BODY WHO ENTERS ANOTHER SOUL WHO IS STILL IN A CORPOREAL BODY HAS TO BE MORE POWERFUL. The PBKs turn a COMPLETE BLIND 'EYE' TO THIS ABSOLUTE REALITY AND INVIOLABLE VERITY! The 'OR' does not apply here.

But, first of all, their concept of the above souls entering bodies of PBK personalities itself is illogical - Flaw No. 59- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&start=390
I am posting one point about the matter that Baba means the combination of the incorporeal and the corporeal
Again a mis-interpretation - Flaw No. 64) - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50515#p50515
There is this point about Shiv entering Shankar. It is very obvious, so I would like to check with the whole Murli.

“Shiv ne Shankar me pravesh kiya to Shiv-Shankar ko mila dete he.”16.2.73

“Shiv entered in Shankar so they combine Shiv-Shankar.” 16.2.73
There is need to check the adjacent sentences as well. There could even be a question mark at the end. Then the meaning would become opposite. By leaving the adjacent sentences, most of the claims of PBKs are just baseless claims. Eg- Error No. 02- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593#p48662

Also- here

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 31 Dec 2015

The points about the combination of the incorporeal and the corporeal being called Baba you have quoted are different to the one I have quoted and you have not adressed the point I have quoted.

I have said “or” because at the time the Murli was spoken these were Jagadamba and Brahma Baba, the two mothers, but the Trimurti is there even now. As long as the Confluence Age is there, God is there and God is there as Trimurti. Brahma is Jagadamba, it is said in the Murli many times. But Brahma is not worshiped as Brahma a lot, but he is worshiped in female form of Jagadamba. This form has to be there somewhere as part of the Trimurti in the beginning and at the end. Brahma Baba plays his practical role of Jagadamba through a female form, this is where he is worshiped.

Om Radhe is not Jagadamba. She holds the title of Jagadamba for some time, because Brahma was in male body, so she was looking after the sisters. Om Radhe is Lakshmi.She does play a part along with Brahma like Sarasvati, but when in the Confluence Age they enter into the confluenced aged Rahda and Krishna, this is where from they assume their titles of Radha-Krishna and and Narayan.

Lakshmi and Jagadamba are different. The meaning of Brahma, the first murti is big mother, Jagadamba. Om Radhe plays part of Sarasvati along with Brahma and Lakshmi in the dual form of Vishnu, that is the second murti. But she also left the body. In the older pictures it is written ...the status of Lakshmi Narayan, Ram Sita, but then the names of Ram Sita were removed. Baba has said in the Murli that if we remove the writing we look like damn fools. We are fools to neglect the parts of the main actors in the drama Ram Sita who are part of Vishnu. It is from this Vishnu that Brahma emerges. Vishnu emerges from the navel of Brahma. The soul of Brahma Baba takes knowledge from these souls of Ram and Sita.

Whatever names are given like Prajapita, Jagadamba, etc., we cannot just give them randomly to whomever we like. Brahma Baba did carry the title of Prajapita, as long as the original Prajapita was not there, like the children assumes the title of his Father, but as long as the impure world is there the impure Prajapita has to be there in the corporeal body in the corporeal world, that means now and Brahma Baba is not here now.

Brahma Baba does not assume the title Prajapita when he enters Prajapita, because he does not assume the title Jagadamba when he enters the female body, but the female body assumes the title Jagadamba, because Brahma Baba enters it. With the case of Prajapita when Brahma Baba enters his body the form is Ardhanarishvar. Half male, half female, because the soul of Ram is also powerful like the sun. Even in eclipse the moon cannot cover the sun completely, light is still there visible. The female body Brahma Baba enters represents the earth and the moon casts its shadow on the earth. It cannot cast shadow on the sun that is a ball of fire. It is wrong to say sun eclipse. It is the shadow of the moon that falls on earth, it is the earth that is eclipsed.

But in fact the moon is child of the earth, that's why it rotates around it. It comes out of the earth. Krishna is child of the earth, of the mother Gita, not her husband, not the God of the Gita.

It is true that the subtle soul of Brahma is now more powerful. Like in the world the BK name is more famous now, Krishna being God of the Gita is more famous now, the path of Bhakti is prospering. Now the bull rides over Shankar. When Shankar's purusharth becomes complete he will ride over the bull, he will become more powerful. Brahma Baba will not enter in Prajapita anymore or he will make complete effort and finish his subtle body.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 31 Dec 2015

sita wrote:The points about the combination of the incorporeal and the corporeal being called Baba you have quoted are different to the one I have quoted and you have not addressed the point I have quoted.
I believe it is addressed. OK, in clear words, - I believe Baba can be for a)just incorporeal(Shiv = ShivBaba), or b)corporeal(B Baba) or c)incorporeal in corporeal(Shiv/ShivBaba in Brahma). Or even can be said to d)lowkik Father.

Baba = Father. That is all. Father can be in Paramdham, in a body, even the Chariot can be called as (corporeal) Father, etc, etc.

It is also discussed here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=492&p=31332&hilit= ... aba#p31332

So, take all the Murli points and then discuss. If you like to take just one Murli point, then better say- Baba is ALSO said for the combination of incorporeal and corporeal. But, DO NOT MAKE THE FALSE & TREACHEROUS CLAIM THAT BABA CANNOT BE SAID FOR THE INCORPOREAL ALONE, WHICH IS PROVED TO BE COMPLETELY WRONG ACCORDING THE THE CONCERNED Murli POINTS ALREADY HIGHLIGHTED.
I have said “or” because ...
Murli points say differently. - Post No. 66 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 7&start=80

I believe it is only PBKs' attempt to justify their claims. Baba clearly says - mahima choti Maa kee hai =The praise in Bhaktimarg is of smaller mother(Om Radhe).

And- Baba also says- This one(Brahma) is both mother and Father. PBKs even leave all these and just take half of the Murli point and add their (mis)interpretations just to make them fit with their 'distorted' ideology.
Om Radhe is not Jagadamba....
Again, against Murli points. So, I believe the topic title should be not be- "Supporting Murli Points for PBKs". The right title is- "Murli points being used by PBKs", as no Murli point found so far supports their claim. PBKs just try to explain Bhakti scriptures in their own way even by going against scriptures. [Neither Murli point, nor scriptures say- Shankar Pravati = Ram Sita = Vishnu]
In the older pictures it is written ...the status of Lakshmi Narayan, Ram Sita, but then the names of Ram Sita were removed.
You may give data where it is removed.
Baba has said in the Murli that if we remove the writing we look like damn fools.
Is not mis- interpreting, mis-appropriating and distorting Murli points and going totally opposite to the Murli points more dangerous than being just damn fools?
We are fools to neglect the parts of the main actors in the drama Ram Sita who are part of Vishnu.
It is PBKs who first ignore the Principal Actor - GOD himself - most beloved ShivBaba, by equating him to human soul, (that too one who had been totally unaware of simplest typing errors in Murlis, and had committed another plain blunder while manipulating the date of death of Sevakram to DOB of Mr Dixit - put here- Error No. 4- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593

Another Irony is- The Sita of PBKs (Sister Vedanti) whom PBKs say is a main actor- PBKs themselves say- her purity is cowardice! All of their mothers are weak! And, they say- hero actors?!

Baba does not praise much about human Ram. Of course, sometimes he does only to some extent, much lesser than Lakshmi and Narayan. So, removing his name, is not a big error. Baba has also said- how the court of arms should be - Post No. 81- Mu Point No. 4) - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=110

Time may come when BKs create full picture of Time Cycle. Or may be that is not necessary now, as Baba has clearly said in Avyakt Murlis - Abhee service kee roop rekhaa hee change huyi hai = Now, the form of service has totally changed. [So, not sure at present how it goes]. But, Baba has clearly said after 1969, how the Yagya would continue- 117c- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=160

Yet to know. By pointing some mistakes in BKWSU, do PBKs think they are on the path of truth? Is this the way of their approach - the so called gyaani tu atmas - of proving their claims?
It is from this Vishnu that Brahma emerges....

These all are just mis-interpretations, against Murli points. PBK theory is like kanras to some extent. This topic is about supporting Murli POINTS, so better discuss how the Murli point supports the assumption that God comes in Kampil in Mr Dixit's body.
It is true that the subtle soul of Brahma is now more powerful. ...
Again illogical. PBKs believe Mr Dixit is soul of Shankar, his faith and remembrance are the highest. They also believe even purity of B Baba is cowardice, B Baba had attachment or could not control children of Yagya. But, how can such a soul control highest actor! Ridiculous. [Already discussed]. - Flaw No 59- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&start=390

So, all of your explanations are just repetition of what is already discussed and FOUND ILLOGICAL.
YOU ARE JUST GOING ROUND AND ROUND THE SAME CIRCLES OVER AND OVER AGAIN -
NO GAIN, NO ACHIEVEMENT, OTHER THAN TO MAKE YOURSELF AND OTHERS MORE AND MORE CONFUSED
!
So, no need to say more.
Thank you. All the best.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 02 Jan 2016

It is said in the Murli, that Brahma is Jagadamba. If Om Radhe is also Jagadamba, are there two Jagadambas?

Another supporting Murli point is that in the future television will emerge, and you will see Brahma, and ShivBaba coming in him and narrating Murli. This did not happen at the time of Brahma Baba. Gulzar Dadi is not Brahma. So will this point from the Murli be realised or not? (I will post the exact point with date)

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 02 Jan 2016

sita wrote:It is said in the Murli, that Brahma is Jagadamba. If Om Radhe is also Jagadamba, are there two Jagadambas?
Obviously, yes - supported by numerous Murli points. Then what did you understand by the Murli point- Two unlimited Mothers?

One is senior/first Jagadamba(Brahma Baba = REAL Jagadamba, but 'gupt' or incognito, as he is in a male body, and cannot go to 'gali2' or from lane to lane, like others); another smaller instrumental Jagadamba(actually daughter, but given that seat, as the Urn of Knowledge is placed on her).
sita wrote:Another supporting Murli point is that in the future television will emerge, and you will see Brahma, and ShivBaba coming in him and narrating Murli. This did not happen at the time of Brahma Baba. Gulzar Dadi is not Brahma. So will this point from the Murli be realised or not?
Television has already emerged long before, and ShivBaba has been coming in the subtle body of Brahma and narrating the AVs since 1969, (which have also been described as 'Murli' by BapDada in many AVs, TOTALLY CONTRARY to the interpretation of the bodily guru of the PBKs - who claims that an AV cannot be considered to be a 'Murli', BLINDLY accepted by his followers), and meeting the children in 'Avyakt' to date - which the PBKs are STILL not able to 'REAL-Eyes', since they DO NOT HAVE the THIRD EYE, and are able to see only the physical body with their two physical eyes!!!

I have explained the Murli points, EXACTLY AS PER the Murli points, without going against them. You just say opposite to the Murli point and go against them, DELUSIVELY CONSIDERING that such MISinterpretations constitute the so-called advanced knowledge, without 'REAL-Eyesing' the ACTUAL TRUTH. [Even when baba says- Brahma is both your Father and mother openly, hundreds of times, you are not at all ready to accept, but just saying your own theory without any base.
Why or for what purpose then PBKs use Murli points to explain their knowledge?

It is hopeless stage as even after explained fully, you cannot understand. Even other points already addressed. So, I need not say more. You may carry on disturbing yourself, if you like, but at least do not disturb others.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 04 Jan 2016

The Murli point about the television is:

"टेलीविजन भी निकलेगा, कहाँ भी बैठ देखते रहेँगे। यह ब्रहमा है, इसमेँ शिवबाबा मुरली चलाते हैँ - आगे चल यह भी निकलेगा।" (मु. 26.6.70 (सन 65की मुरली)

Television will also emerge, you will be watching wherever you may be. This is Brahma, ShivBaba is narrating Murli in him – in future this will also emerge.

It says that we will be able to watch/see Brahma.

Every mother is Jagadamba to the level she embodies the attitude towards the souls in the world as her children. Jagadamba has many helping hands.

Jagadamba who would be mother of everyone and no one will be mother to her can be only one. That's why there are Murli points who say that Jagadamba is one. Brahma Baba is Jagadamba in true sense, because she is mother to even Om Radhe.

There are two unlimited mothers means that one unlimited mother is mother of the whole world when the whole world is present. Unlimited means to everyone. Another unlimited mother is again unlimited, she is again mother of the whole world, but at that time the world is small.

There are two unlimited mothers also mean that one is the soul and another is the body.

Brahma Baba was both mother and Father in the Yagya when both the mother and the Father were not there.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 04 Jan 2016

sita wrote:"टेलीविजन भी निकलेगा, कहाँ भी बैठ देखते रहेँगे। यह ब्रहमा है, इसमेँ शिवबाबा मुरली चलाते हैँ - आगे चल यह भी निकलेगा।" (मु. 26.6.70 (सन 65की मुरली)

Television will also emerge, you will be watching wherever you may be. This is Brahma, ShivBaba is narrating Murli in him – in future this will also emerge.

It says that we will be able to watch/see Brahma.
Thank you for the point. But, here, it means people will feel/understand it with the THIRD EYE of Knowledge. It does not mean they will see physical face of Brahma, in a corporeal body OF HIS OWN, with their physical eyes.
The PBKs and their bodily guru RELENTLESSLY KEEP HARPING ABOUT THE POINT OF KNOWLEDGE -
"The UNLIMITED Father, SPEAKS OF UNLIMITED MATTERS TO THE UNLIMITED CHILDREN"!
But, to suit their philosophy, they CHANGE the LIMITED to the UNLIMITED and the UNLIMITED to the LIMITED RECKLESSLY & STUPIDLY!
In the above point, 'Television', definitely also has a LIMITED meaning; but it ALSO has the UNLIMITED meaning of the 'Avyakt VISION' and the 'SPIRITUAL VISION' with the THIRD EYE of KNOWLEDGE!
'Tele vision' will emerge means, the AWARENESS and CONSCIOUSNESS of the children will PROGRESSIVELY emerge from 'sakari' to 'akari' to 'Nirakari'!!!
WHEREAS, the PBKs and their bodily guru are SLEEPING in the DEEP SLEEP of 'Kumbhakarna', performing the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya in the Confluence Age, TRAPPED in the DECEPTIVE Godly FORM of Ravan or Maya, without having the SLIGHTEST NOTION of what EXACTLY is GOING ON!!!
If you all feel happy in following Ravan or Maya, MASQUERADING as God or 'ShivBaba', PLEASE DO SO HAPPILY, but DO NOT DISTURB YOURSELF by UNNECESSARILY MEDDLING with GOD's TRUE CHILDREN!

Whereas, in the latest Avyakt Milan of 31.12.2015, BapDada have clarified the significance of an Avyakt MEETING, while the children are in a 'sakari' consciousness.

View http://bkdrluhar.com/00-Avyakt%20Murli/ ... 2.2015.pdf

"हर एक के नयन इस मिलन में इतने खुश हैं जो हर एक समझता है कि यह साकार दुनिया में साकार रूप में बाप और बच्चों का मिलन वन्डरफुल है। हर एक की दिल कह रही है वाह बाबा वाह! हमने तो सोचा नहीं कि ऐसे बाबा का मिलन हो सकता है, यह मिलन तो बहुत-बहुत-बहुत प्यारा है। यह मिलन तो स्वप्न में भी न था कि ऐसे मिलन हो सकता है। लेकिन यह बाप और बच्चों का मिलन, बच्चे बाप को देखकर प्रसन्न हो गये, वाह बाबा वाह! और बाप भी एक-एक बच्चे को देख कितना खुश हो रहा है, वाह! वाह! वाह! की धुन चल रही है। हर एक के खुशी की लहर, उनकी शक्ल पर चमक रही है। सबके मुख से यही आवाज निकल रहा है वाह बाबा वाह! आज तो आपने मिलन का स्वरूप अनुभव करा दिया।"

"In this meeting, everyone’s eyes are so happy, as each one understands that to celebrate a meeting between the Father and the children in the corporeal world in a corporeal form is so wonderful! Each one’s heart is saying, “Wah Baba! Wah!” We never thought that we could have such a meeting with Baba: this meeting is very, very, very lovely. We never even dreamt that we could have such a meeting. However, in this meeting of the Father and the children, the children are happy to see the Father, “Wah Baba! Wah!”, and the Father is also very pleased to see each of you children. The chant of “Wah! Wah! Wah!” is continuing. The wave of happiness in each one of you is sparkling on your faces. The sound emerging from everyone’s lips is, “Wah Baba! Wah!” Today, You gave us the experience of being the embodiment of the MEETING."

OBVIOUSLY, the PBKs and their bodily guru CANNOT have such EXPERIENCE, owing to their governing 'sanskars', and therefore they are caught in the VICIOUS DECEPTION of Ravan or Maya!

"तो आज सभी के मन में बाप और बच्चे का अव्यक्ति मिलन क्या होता है, वह अनुभव सभी बच्चों को बापदादा करा रहे हैं। सभी ने किया, यह मिलन। साधारण बात नहीं है। यह मिलन के भाग्य को लेना, यह हर एक को मिलता है। लेकिन मिले हुए भाग्य को अनुभव में लाना, यह अनुभव भले इतने सारे हैं लेकिन रीयल में अनुभव करना, यह भाग्य की बात है। तो आज बापदादा ऐसे बच्चों का भाग्य देख रहे हैं कि कैसे दिल से मिलन मना रहे हैं, याद करते थे गीत गाके लेकिन अभी गीत क्या मिलन मना रहे हैं। यह भी हर एक का भाग्य है, जो यह भाग्य साकार में यहाँ प्राप्त होने का भाग्य है। ऐसा भाग्य भाग्यशाली ही प्राप्त करता है।
तो बापदादा आज का मिलन देख बहुत खुश है कि बच्चे साकार में मिलन मनाने का अनुभव कर रहे हैं। हर एक के मन में कौन समाया हुआ है? बाबा। मेरा बाबा, प्यारा बाबा।"

"So, today in everyone’s mind is: What is the Avyakt meeting between the Father and the children? BapDada is giving all of you children this experience today. Did everyone experience this meeting? It is not an ordinary matter. Each one receives a chance to claim the fortune of a meeting, but to put the fortune you have received into your experience, even though you may have had many of these experiences – but to experience it in reality is a matter of fortune. So, today, BapDada is seeing the fortune of such children and seeing how you are celebrating a meeting with the heart. You used to remember by singing songs, but now, it’s not about singing songs, but you are actually celebrating a meeting. This too is each one’s fortune. It is a matter of fortune to receive this fortune in the corporeal form. Only the fortunate ones receive such fortune.
Seeing today’s meeting, BapDada is very pleased that the children are experiencing celebrating a meeting in the corporeal form. Who is merged in each one’s mind? Baba, my Baba, lovely Baba."

The PBKs and their bodily guru are NOT FORTUNATE to have EXPERIENCE of God in REALITY, owing to their governing 'sanskars', and therefore they are HOPELESSLY TRAPPED in the VICIOUS DECEPTION of Ravan or Maya, who SUCCEEDS in DIVORCING them from a TRUE SPIRITUAL MEETING with God!

If you take physically, then every explanation of PBKs fail at ALL the PLACES. PBKs believe ShivBaba = Shiv + Mr Dixit. So, (from PBK view point) it should be ShivBaba narrating Murli in Brahma - means should be Shiv plus Dixit in own physical body of Brahma or DLR, is it not?

sita
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 05 Jan 2016

"ब्यक्त मेँ अब भी सहारा है। जैसे पहले भी निमित्त बना हुअ साकार तन सहारा था, वैसे ही अब भी द्रामा मेँ निमित्त बने हुए साकार मेँ सहारा है। पेह्ले भी निमित्त थे, अब भी निमित्त हैँ। यह पूरा परीवार का साकार सहारा बहुत श्रेष्ठ हीए। अव्यक्त मेँ तो साथ है ही।....सकार से स्नेह अर्थात सारे सिज्रे से स्नेह्। साकार अकेला नहीँ है। प्रजापिता ब्रह्मा तो उंके साथ परिवार है।" (अ.व. 18.1.70)

“There is explicit support even now. Just like before the Sakar body that was made instrumental was support, in the same way now also there is support in Sakar who has been made instrumental in the drama. He was instrument before, now also he is instrument. This support of the whole family is very elevated. He is along in Avyakt anyway....Love with the Sakar means love with the whole family. The Sakar is not alone. Prjapita Brahma, so there is family along with him.” (A.V. 18.1.70)

In this point it is said that now in 1970 there is support in Sakar, like before. Before the support that was there made instrumental in the drama was through Brahma Baba, that is Supreme Soul was himself support in a corporeal body. In the same way in 70 there is supportof theSupreme Father in corporeal body, like before means not like in Gulzar Dadi. Like before it was not known when he comes and goes, and every word from his mouth was Shrimat. There is also hint that he was instrument before (before Brahma Baba) and he is instrument now also. In Avyakt it is said that he is along anyway, so this is something different. It is said Prajapita Brahma so certainly it is about a corporeal personality. Prajapita is said about the impure one, the personality who is there in corporeal. The subtle Brahma is not called Prajapita. It is also said that along with him there is family.

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