Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

DEDICATED to PBKs.
For PBKs who are affiliated to AIVV, and supporting 'Advanced Knowledge'.
Post Reply
mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 24 Jan 2016

I believe role of B, V S - all are played by the individual souls only. But, both(ShivBaba and B baba- and even Mama too are called as creators- Post No. 23- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... =25&t=1167 ) are creators.

So, as karanhaar, ShivBaba plays three roles, but, when ShivBaba is karaavanhaar, it is like the other souls playing the roles, Then all the children get titles Master B, V, S.

--------
But, if you are asking just about Brahma/Chariot role, then I believe - it is played by the individual soul. - see here- viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2009

Different Meanings of Brahma:-

When Baba means Brahma = Chariot, it is for just one soul DLR*.

When Baba means Brahma = Prajapita(corporeal Father) and just interested in highlighting his incarnation, even then Brahma is meant for just DLR.

When ShivBaba is interested in highlighting adoption of Braahmins, then ShivBaba uses that title just on DLR as Mother/media, and Brahma becomes wife of God.

But, when Baba is interested to highlight the role Father, he uses even that title Prajapita on HIMSELF too, but adds the word INCORPOREAL with it to discriminate.

* - Of course even Gulzar Dadi is also called as Chariot, but not as fixed Chariot, God does not enter her directly. God enters even her via (with the) subtle Brahma too. Of course, she is already Master Brahma.

So, Brahma can mean Chariot(of God), MOTHER(of children), Father (of children), WIFE (of God) and also CHILD (of God). Further, there are again CORPOREAL and SUBTLE Brahma. The soul is only one. But, due to the multiple roles played by him, baba says in many ways. So, the context is to be understood.

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 24 Jan 2016

I have not seen the points where Prajapita refers to the souls of Shiv and where it is said that we become from Shankar to Vishnu or from Brahma to Shankar. Please, provide whatever you have in this respect.

You know the point that there are two children, Brahma and Shankar. So they are different.

If the point we are discussing refers to the soul of Brahma Baba, that when he changes the body the name changes, and he plays the part of Shankar, it does not fit. After leaving the body he plays the part of Avyakt Brahma, the name has not changed. You can suggest that along with that he also plays the role of Shankar from time to time, and sometimes of Vishnu, maybe he has played this whilst in Sakar as well, but there has to be some support for this in the Murli. In the Murli it is said that Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar are different actors who play their different part.

The role of Brahma is there only after the Supreme Soul enters. Whoever he enters is named Brahma. The act of creation is an act of the Supreme Soul, without him it does not work. He creates through the mouth, he uses the mouth. And also it is said....children in whose lap have you come to? Those who say Brahma fail, those who say ShivBaba pass. So I think the role through Brahma is of the Supreme Soul and if we think otherwise we will fail.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 24 Jan 2016

sita wrote:I have not seen the points where Prajapita refers to the souls of Shiv
Already given- Post No. 62 - Mu Points no. 2 and 3. - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 7&start=80

Note the words - 2)SM 22-2-87:- ...SECOND JAGATPITA IS SAID FOR THE INCORPOREAL ShivBaba. He is Father of ALL. His name itself is Parampita paramatma Shiv.

Also- see Prajapita donon Baap thah-rey na = Both the Prajapitas are fathers, is it not?

3)SM 11-12-76(1):- ....Abhi tum samajhte ho BEHAD KAA BAAP HAI TOH Maa BHI hai. IS Maa DWAARAA ARTHAATH PRAJAPITA BRAHMA DWAARAA ADOPT KIYAA HAI. Ab Prajapita donon Baap thah_rey na. Pita dwaraa adopt kaise karenge. Baap toh maataa dwaara adopt karenge na.

I believe even PBKs believe Jagatpita = Prajapita are one and the same. If not please mention.

Regarding Shankar, I need more time, say 2 to 3 weeks, and I will write there in that post. And- regarding the following-
"The role of Brahma is there only after the Supreme Soul enters. Whoever he enters is named Brahma. The act of creation is an act of the Supreme Soul, without him it does not work. He creates through the mouth, he uses the mouth. And also it is said....children in whose lap have you come to? Those who say Brahma fail, those who say ShivBaba pass. So I think the role through Brahma is of the Supreme Soul and if we think otherwise we will fail.
Mouth of Brahma was necessary initially till knowledge is given. After that is there need of mouth? The other hands of Brahma are enough. Today, lots of BKs or children are capable of giving knowledge easily. baba says- "(main) teachings are already over/taught". - Post No. 117 in the same link.

Regarding the lap of Brahma- Defintely, we are not being sustained by Brahma, but actually through ShivBaba. Avyakt Murli POINTS GIVE FULL FREEDOM TO REMEMBER EVEN BRAHMA BABA. [Sakar Murlis sometimes say remember Brahma, sometimes say- do not remember Brahma]. I believe ShivBaba's aim was to prevent children from getting attached to just physical body of B baba. But after 1969, B Baba is not in corporeal. So, even if someone remembers B baba, he is likely to remember only subtle body of Brahma(complete Brahma and angel, body of light). So, automatically, it will take us forward and become part of accurate Yaad.

PBKs quote an Avyakt Murli point which say double key - Shiv and Brahma are necessary to get property. After I get them all, I will make the reply better.

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 24 Jan 2016

Definitely there are many Murli points that say we should not keep the photo of Brahma and remember Brahma. If it is required I could post.

The matter was about who plays the part of Brahma. Another point in support of the claim that it is the soul of Shiv who plays that part is that he is called karanhar. He acts himself. How does he act? He himself acts through entering the body of Brahma, because he does not have his own body.

This discussion was going on in connection with the point that his name is Shiv, and it is the name of the soul and it never changes, but when the body changes the name changes, like from Brahma - Shankar, then Vishnu . The name is given based on the act performed. Like his name is Shiv because he brings benefit. When he enters the body of Brahma he plays the role of a mother, he creates Brahmins. The body he enters has his own name, but when he enters it aquires a new name, like in the case with the religious fathers, when a new soul comes - Jesus is called Christ, Sidharta is called Buddha.

The Supreme Father plays role not only through Brahma, but he plays three roles of creation, destruction and sustenance, through three personalities, that's why he is called Trimurti, murti means a figure. When he changes the body from Brahma to Shankar the name changes, because the act changes. This is what the quoted point was about.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 24 Jan 2016

sita wrote:Definitely there are many Murli points that say we should not keep the photo of Brahma and remember Brahma. If it is required I could post[
I know that. The reason is also mentioned as one should not get attached to physical personality.

But, there is also a Murli point- Prajapita ka alag photo honaa chaahiye. = There should be a separate photo of Prajapita. [So, for service, they are to be used].

And- why in Avyakt Murlis, it is not said- Do not keep his photo?
The matter was about who plays the part of Brahma. Another point in support of the claim that it is the soul of Shiv who plays that part is that he is called karanhar. He acts himself. How does he act? He himself acts through entering the body of Brahma, because he does not have his own body.
Of course, through body of Brahma, Shiv himself also speaks, is it not? Then he is karanhaar. When he keeps child in front, he is karaavanhaar. Simple logic. No need to think a lot in complicated way.
This discussion was going on in connection with the point that his name is Shiv, and it is the name of the soul and it never changes, but when the body changes the name changes, like from Brahma - Shankar, then Vishnu . The name is given based on the act performed. Like his name is Shiv because he brings benefit. When he enters the body of Brahma he plays the role of a mother, he creates Brahmins. The body he enters has his own name, but when he enters it aquires a new name, like in the case with the religious fathers, when a new soul comes - Jesus is called Christ, Sidharta is called Buddha.
The speciality of Supreme Soul is that his name never changes. It always remains as Shiv. He may get additonal names, but his name Shiv does not get DILUTED. For example, Shiv may have names Somanath, Rudr, etc, but it does not fade name Shiv even a little.

But, when God enters in Brahma, his name Lekhraj changes, it loses value! When Prajapita Brahma leaves body, he is called as Adi Dev. The name changes. Again when he goes to Paramdham, he will have no name, just saligram like any other soul. But, name of Shiv either in Paramdham, or during Bhaktimarg, or during Conf Age, NEVER FADES!. This is the difference between Supreme Soul and any human soul.

The Supreme Father plays role not only through Brahma, but he plays three roles of creation, destruction and sustenance, through three personalities, that's why he is called Trimurti, murti means a figure. When he changes the body from Brahma to Shankar the name changes, because the act changes. This is what the quoted point was about.
But, Baba has clearly said- I need only one murti. - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2017&p=29155&hilit=lagaa#p29155

So, take all the Murli points regarding trimurtis. If you believe God enters in three personalities, and plays his role, please mention from which year to which year, God entered in which personality.

If you believe God plays three roles through three DIFFERENT personalities, then children can never become master trimurtis. Also, each and every personality would be an incomplete personality, is it not? One who plays role of Brahma, can never become Vishnu. How come that is possible?

If you believe God enters in three personalities, to play three roles PRACTICALLY, then all the three personalities would get name FIXED chariots!

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 26 Jan 2016

If you believe God enters in three personalities, to play three roles PRACTICALLY, then all the three personalities would get name FIXED chariots!
Among the three murtis, one is the biggest child, his stage is shown to be the highest and closest to Paramdham and the supreme Father and his name is combined with that of Shiv. In the Trimurti, the part of Father, Teacher and Satguru is played through one murti.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 26 Jan 2016

Among the three murtis, one is the biggest child, his stage is shown to be the highest and closest to Paramdham and the supreme Father and his name is combined with that of Shiv. In the Trimurti, the part of Father, Teacher and Satguru is played through one murti.
Agreed. Not only Father, Teacher, Guru, but also Maatpita(mother and Father.

[Now, who is this? B baba or Dixit? This is the point here. Just by saying Shankar is greatest deity, PBKs do not prove anything. Can they prove Mr Dixit is Shankar? Unfortunately, may BKs get confused when role of Shankar is asked to them. Mr Dixit took advantage of it and placed that title on himself.]

So, for me, either close to Paramdham or next to it, all are same, as all the three roles are played by one murti. In lowkik, it is said BVS. So, pictures are also prepared so. But, in fact, Baba has said in Subtle Region- just one Brahma is there in practical.

SM 16-4-87(2):- Brahma dwaraa sthaapanaa toh zaroor yahaan chaahiye. Prajaa yahaan rachte hain. SOOKSHMVATAN MAY TOH AKELAA BRAHMA BAITHAA HAI. RACHNAA RACH POOREE KEE TOH FARISTAA BAN GAYE. Tum ho PPB ke mukhvamshaavali braahman kul bhooshan. -57- [Prajapita, Past tense]

= There is just one Brahma sitting in Subtle Region. He played role of creation, then became angel. ...

What a great status it is. How can PBKs defame subtle Brahma? It is clearly indicated "he completed the role of creation". Now, it is Avyakt part. Even Avyakt Murlis clearly say it.
---------
Regarding churning about Shankar- it is now ready, put here- viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2422&p=50438#p50438

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 29 Jan 2016

ShivBaba has said that he does establishment through Brahma. The word through indicates that it is someone else who does it and Brahma is the medium. In the same way it is said I do destruction through Shankar. It is again the role of the supreme Father. There is one Murli point that Dev Dev Mahadev, this is also me.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 29 Jan 2016

sita wrote:ShivBaba has said that he does establishment through Brahma. The word through indicates that it is someone else who does it and Brahma is the medium. In the same way it is said I do destruction through Shankar. It is again the role of the supreme Father. There is one Murli point that Dev Dev Mahadev, this is also me.
Take it anyway, I do not feel any difference. I believe Baba also plays role of all the three roles, but, also motivates children to do the same as per drama plan which is also already fixed in every soul. Baba says- I am karan- karaavanhaar- (both).

SM 1-9-78(1):- geeth- tumhi ho maataapitaa…. Om Shanti. Bachchon ne geeth sunaa. Aksar karke bhaktimaargvaaley mandiron may jaate hain. jo bhi devataayein hain, chaahe Shiv ke paas jaavenge, chaahe LN ke mandir may jaayenge, chaahe RK ke mandir may jaavenge, sabkey aage yahi mahimaa karenge TWAMEVA MAATAASHCHA PITAA…. PHIR KAHTE HAIN TWAMEVA VIDYAA DRAVINAM. YAANI TUM MAATPITAA BHI HO, PADHAANEVAALEY BHI HO. Vaastav may LN ko, vaa Ram Sita ko twameva maataa pitaa nahin kahenge. Kyonki unhon ko toh apney bachche honge. Vah aisee mahimaa nahin gaavenge. ASUL MAY MAHIMAA EK ShivBaba KI HAI. VAH MAHIMAA GAATE HAIN DEV2 MAHAADEV. YAANI TUM BVS SE BHI OONCH HO. Bhaktimarg may arth toh koyi samajh na sakey. Devataavon ke aage yah jhooth bolthay hain. Ab Baap kahte hain tumney bahut Bhakti ki hai. Ab merey se samjho aur is par gowr karo- sach kyaa hai, jhoot kyaa hai. Tum bachche ab samajhte ho Baap ke baarey may aur devtaavon ke baarey may. Manushy jo bhi mahimaa gaate hain vah saari wrong hain. Abhi main jo tum bachchon ko samjhaataa hun, vahi right hai. -97 [maatpitaa, BVS] imp

Then why do PBKs argue in double standards? Why do they say- Dev2 Mahadev refers to Shankar, when ShivBaba CLEARLY DECLARES that it refers to Him and NOT to Shankar? When other Murli points say- Trimruti Brahma, Brahma is number ONE in trimurtis, etc, then why do they not praise Brahma ALSO, in the VERY SAME way?

When Shiv is shown as mixed with Shankar, PBKs become very happy and say- Shankar is very close to Shiv. But, when Krishna is shown as God of Gita, PBKs say-it is totally false. How come only the second is false, while the first becomes TRUE, according to them?

Whenever it becomes difficult for PBKs to explain, PBKs will say- All the titles are for Shiv. But, whenever there is chance, they will imply all of them apply to Mr Dixit, and say others are just title holders, and even for the rest of the personalities in trimurtis as just as COWARDICE, SUPERFICIAL, etc. Any logic?

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 30 Jan 2016

PBKs will say- All the titles are for Shiv.
No, ShivBaba has said this.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 30 Jan 2016

sita wrote:No, ShivBaba has said this.
Right, I know that dear. But, my point here was PBKs use such Murli points only as scapegoat, they even highlight ShivBaba only in the end, when all of their attempts fail. If you see Pbk literature, you will find names of Prajapita and Shankar appearing more than ShivBaba. And- there, all the titles Ram, LN, etc, are used to Dixit. But, you need not accept it. It is perfectly OK.

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 30 Jan 2016

One point about changing in the Confluence Age.

आप आत्मायें ब्राह्मण जीवन में ऐसे पवित्र बनते हो जो शरीर भी, प्रकृति भी पवित्र बना देते हो। इसलिए शरीर भी पवित्र है तो आत्मा भी पवित्र है। (AV 7.3.93 )

You souls become so pure in the Brahmin life, that you purify the body and the nature too, that's why the body is also pure and the soul is also pure. (AV 7.3.93)

===

= RESPONSE =

INSTEAD OF 'JUMPING LIKE INEBRIATED MONKEYS' TO WRONG CONCLUSIONS, BASED ON ISOLATED AV POINTS, SELECTED BY EQUALLY 'INEBRIATED & HEAVILY INTOXICATED MONKEYS', PBKs SHOULD TAKE TIME TO READ THE CONTENTS OF THE ENTIRE AV PROPERLY, PRIOR BLINDLY ACCEPTING ANY CORRUPTED SUGGESTIONS/INTERPRETATIONS OF BODILY GURUS, WHO ARE ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN CARRYING OUT THE 'SHOOTING' OF Ravan Rajya IN THE Confluence Age, MASQUERADING AS 'ShivBaba' & 'Prajapita Brahma'!!!

KINDLY REVIEW THE CONTENTS OF THE ENTIRE AV, AND, IN PARTICULAR, THE POINTS HIGHLIGHTED BELOW:

आज बापदादा अपने सर्व हाइएस्ट और होलीएस्ट बच्चों को देख रहे हैं। ...
Today, BapDada is seeing all His highest and holiest children. ...
(This applies to ALL the TRUE BRAHMIN children, IN GENERAL, no doubt; but on this SPECIFIC DAY, it would OBVIOUSLY APPLY SPECIFICALLY to THOSE who are PRESENT in their CORPOREAL BODIES BEFORE BapDada!
Otherwise, the very first word, "TODAY", has no significance, since BapDada are CONSTANTLY LOOKING at ALL the TRUE BRAHMIN children, ALL THE TIME, EVERYDAY, in 'akar'!)

आदि से अब संगम समय तक देखो कि आप आत्माओं से कोई हाइएस्ट श्रेष्ठ बना है? ...
Look from the beginning to the present confluence period and see whether any soul has become higher and more elevated than you souls? ...
(When BapDada are using the word 'aap' or 'you', who are BapDada referring to? OBVIOUSLY BapDada are referring to those who are ACTUALLY PRESENT in their corporeal bodies in front of BapDada.
How can Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs DELUSIVELY believe that BapDada is referring to them SPECIFICALLY, UNLESS they are INSANE?)

... आप ऊंचे ते ऊंचे भगवान द्वारा डायरेक्ट पालना, पढ़ाई और श्रेष्ठ जीवन की श्रीमत लेने वाली आत्मायें हो। जानते हो ना
अपने को
? ...
... you souls are those who take direct sustenance from the Highest on High, from God. You study with Him and take Shrimat from Him to make your life elevated. You know yourselves, do you not?
(ONCE AGAIN, when BapDada are using the word 'aap' or 'you', who are BapDada referring to? OBVIOUSLY BapDada are referring to those who are ACTUALLY PRESENT in their corporeal bodies in front of BapDada.
And to whom are BapDada asking the question, "You know yourselves, do you not?"
How can Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs DELUSIVELY believe that BapDada is asking them this question SPECIFICALLY, UNLESS they are INSANE?)

अपनी दैवी जीवन याद है? कि भूल गये हो? ...
Do you remember your DEITY life or have you forgotten it? ...

पूज्य में भी देखो-सबसे विधिपूर्वक पूजा देव आत्माओं की होती है। ...
Within worship also, look how the DEITY SOULS are accurately worshipped, according to the system. ...

जैसे देव आत्माओं की पूजा होती है ऐसे और किसी आत्माओं की पूजा नहीं होती। ...
No other souls are worshipped in the way that the DEITY SOULS are worshipped. ...

(IN ALL THE ABOVE THREE POINTS, BapDada ARE CLEARLY CLARIFYING THAT THE POINT REGARDING "BOTH THE BODY AND SOUL BEING PURE" REFERS TO THE DEITY BODY OF Golden Age!!!)

सारे चक्र में देखो-सिर्फ देव आत्मायें हैं जिनका शरीर भी पवित्र है और आत्मा भी पवित्र है। और जो भी आये हैं-आत्मा पवित्र बन भी जाये लेकिन शरीर पवित्र नहीं होगा। आप आत्मायें ब्राह्मण जीवन में ऐसे पवित्र बनते हो जो शरीर भी, प्रकृति भी पवित्र बना देते हो। इसलिए शरीर भी पवित्र है तो आत्मा भी पवित्र है। लेकिन वो कौनसी आत्मायें हैं जो ‘शरीर’ और ‘आत्मा’-दोनों से पवित्र बनती हैं? उन्हों को देखा है? कहाँ हैं वो आत्मायें? आप ही हो वो आत्मायें! ...
If you look throughout the entire Kalpa, it is only the deity souls that have a pure body and a pure soul. The souls of the others who come may become pure, but their bodies are not pure. You souls become so pure in Brahmin life (AT THIS TIME, IN THE Confluence Age, THROUGH ACCURATE & UNADULTERATED REMEMBRANCE OF TRUE ShivBaba or GOD) that you make your body ALSO, and MATTER ALSO, pure (IN THE Golden Age). This is why your body as well as the soul are pure (IN THE Golden Age). However, who are those souls whose body and soul both become pure? Have you met them? Where are those souls? You are those souls. ...
(FINALLY BapDada HAVE POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED THE SOULS, WHOSE BODY AND SOUL BECOME PURE, AS THE SOULS WHO ARE PRACTICALLY PRESENT IN THEIR CORPOREAL BODIES IN FRONT OF BapDada, AT THE PARTICULAR TIME IN QUESTION!
How can Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs DELUSIVELY believe that BapDada is referring to them SPECIFICALLY, in this regard, UNLESS they are INSANE?)

ब्रह्मा बाप के 25 वर्ष पूरे हुए। ...
Twenty-five years of Brahma Baba (having become avaykt) are complete. ...
(WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS UTTERANCE MADE IN 1993, ACCORDING TO Virendra Dev Dixit AND THE PBKs???)

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 06 Feb 2016

Dear RESPONSE,

I think you are mistaking deity soul to be deity. Deity soul means a soul who belongs to the deity religion. Even if that soul is in Kaliyug in a human form, this soul is a deity soul, because this was its initial form. Deity soul does not mean a deity form. Like we say...we are pure souls, although we are not pure yet, but we remember this was our initial, original stage. I think you are able to make the difference.

In the quote I have provided it is clearly said that we (the deity souls) become with a pure body and soul in our Brahmin life.

Please answer in a separate post, because I don't receive a notification, and I don't know whether a response has been made to the post, if a response is made in the same post. I have to remember the topics where I have posted and check. It will be easier if you reply in a separate post. Please!

===

= RESPONSE =

= NOTE = This response is NOT SPECIFICALLY DIRECTED or APPLICABLE to any PARTICULAR SOUL or EVEN to the ORIGINAL POSTER. The original poster may or may not view the response within the post LATER ON, and may or may not respond to same AT ANY TIME- there is ABSOLUTELY NO OBLIGATION for ANYONE to respond AT ALL! This response is designed SOLELY for the benefit of ONLY SUBSEQUENT INTERESTED VIEWERS, who may be reviewing such posts, and who may like to consider the highlighted aspects FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE, for their own individual churning process - and others may simply IGNORE SAME.
Such responses are NOT CONSIDERED to require posting separately, due to the clear demonstration of the CONCERNED posters of their unwillingness or inability to consider the views highlighted, HOLISTICALLY, leading to a CONTINUOUS MERRY-GO-ROUND of 'MOVING IN CIRCLES', ALL THE TIME, with NO EVIDENT RESOLUTION IN MIND, owing to STUBBORNLY holding on to FRAGMENTED, SEGMENTED or ISOLATED MISAPPROPRIATED & MISREPRESENTED points, to the EVIDENT EXCLUSION of others, within the same post, while DELUSIVELY CONSIDERING that they have the most appropriate and properly represented UNLIMITED CLARIFICATIONS of such points, whereas others ONLY HAVE LIMITED & DELUSIVE COMPREHENSION of same!

= QUESTIONS =

KINDLY REVIEW THE CONTENTS OF THE ENTIRE AV dated 7.3.93, AND, IN PARTICULAR, THE POINTS HIGHLIGHTED BELOW, ONCE AGAIN:

... आप ऊंचे ते ऊंचे भगवान द्वारा डायरेक्ट पालना, पढ़ाई और श्रेष्ठ जीवन की श्रीमत लेने वाली आत्मायें हो। जानते हो ना
अपने को
? ...
... you souls are those who take direct sustenance from the Highest on High, from God. You study with Him and take Shrimat from Him to make your life elevated. You know yourselves, do you not?
(ONCE AGAIN, when BapDada are using the word 'aap' or 'you', who are BapDada referring to? OBVIOUSLY BapDada are referring to those who are ACTUALLY PRESENT in their corporeal bodies in front of BapDada.
And to whom are BapDada asking the question, "You know yourselves, do you not?"

WHO IS SPEAKING TO WHOM, AND WHERE, AND WHEN ?


सारे चक्र में देखो-सिर्फ देव आत्मायें हैं जिनका शरीर भी पवित्र है और आत्मा भी पवित्र है। और जो भी आये हैं-आत्मा पवित्र बन भी जाये लेकिन शरीर पवित्र नहीं होगा। आप आत्मायें ब्राह्मण जीवन में ऐसे पवित्र बनते हो जो शरीर भी, प्रकृति भी पवित्र बना देते हो। इसलिए शरीर भी पवित्र है तो आत्मा भी पवित्र है। लेकिन वो कौनसी आत्मायें हैं जो ‘शरीर’ और ‘आत्मा’-दोनों से पवित्र बनती हैं? उन्हों को देखा है? कहाँ हैं वो आत्मायें? आप ही हो वो आत्मायें! ...
If you look throughout the entire Kalpa, it is only the deity souls that have a pure body and a pure soul. The souls of the others who come may become pure, but their bodies are not pure. You souls become so pure in Brahmin life (AT THIS TIME, IN THE Confluence Age, THROUGH ACCURATE & UNADULTERATED REMEMBRANCE OF TRUE ShivBaba or GOD) that you make your body ALSO, and MATTER ALSO, pure (IN THE Golden Age). This is why your body as well as the soul are pure (IN THE Golden Age). However, who are those souls whose body and soul both become pure? Have you met them? Where are those souls? You are those souls. ...
(FINALLY BapDada HAVE POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED THE SOULS, WHOSE BODY AND SOUL BECOME PURE, AS THE SOULS WHO ARE PRACTICALLY PRESENT IN THEIR CORPOREAL BODIES IN FRONT OF BapDada, AT THE PARTICULAR TIME IN QUESTION!

WHO IS SPEAKING TO WHOM, AND WHERE, AND WHEN ?
WHO ARE THE DEITY SOULS POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED HERE?
IS THE SOUL OF DLR A DEITY SOUL? IF SO, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE DEITY SOULS WHO ARE INSTRUMENTAL TO GIVE HIM CORPOREAL BIRTH IN Golden Age & THE SOUL OF DLR, WHEN HE TAKES BIRTH IN Golden Age AS SHRI Krishna?

आप आत्मायें ब्राह्मण जीवन में ऐसे पवित्र बनते हो जो शरीर भी, प्रकृति भी पवित्र बना देते हो।
You souls become so pure in Brahmin life (AT THIS TIME, IN THE Confluence Age, THROUGH ACCURATE & UNADULTERATED REMEMBRANCE OF TRUE ShivBaba or GOD) that you make your body ALSO, and MATTER ALSO, pure (IN THE Golden Age).

= You souls become so pure in Brahmin life, that you make your body ALSO, and MATTER ALSO, pure. =

ONLY SOULS (AND NOT SOULS AS WELL AS BODIES) BECOME PURE IN BRAHMIN LIFE - NUMBER-WISE - GRADUALLY WITH THE PASSAGE OF TIME, UNTIL THE VERY END OF THE Confluence Age, WHEN THE SOULS BECOME COMPLETELY PURE - NUMBER-WISE (THE BODIES OBVIOUSLY DO NOT BECOME CORRESPONDINGLY PURE, AS OTHERWISE, ONE WOULD PRACTICALLY SEE WITH THE PHYSICAL EYES THE CORRESPONDING CHANGE TAKING PLACE IN THE PHYSICAL BODY ALSO, BEFORE THEIR VERY EYES, WITH THE PASSAGE OF TIME IN THE Confluence Age, AND THE CORRESPONDING GRADUAL INCREASE IN THE PURITY OF THE SOUL - NUMBER-WISE - NO ONE CAN DODGE THIS SIMPLE LOGIC OF SIMPLE COMMON SENSE!
WHEN BOTH THE BODY AND SOUL, AS WELL AS THE MOTHER ELEMENTS (MATTER) ARE PURE, THAT IS NO LONGER CONSIDERED AS A BRAHMIN LIFE, AT THAT POINT OF TIME, BUT A DEITY LIFE IN A DEITY FORM, (AND NOT A BRAHMIN FORM OR BRAHMIN LIFE ANY MORE)!
A VERY DEEP AND SUBTLE INTELLECT IS REQUIRED TO PROPERLY COMPREHEND THESE TRANSFORMATIVE PROCESSES DURING THE TRANSFORMATIVE PERIOD!

ALSO REFER TO FOLLOWING EARLIER POST ON THIS FORUM REGARDING THIS MATTER -
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=1217&p=48767&hilit ... ers#p48767

ब्रह्मा बाप के 25 वर्ष पूरे हुए। ...
Twenty-five years of Brahma Baba (having become avaykt) are complete. ...
(WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS UTTERANCE MADE IN 1993, ACCORDING TO Virendra Dev Dixit AND THE PBKs???)

ABOVE QUESTION STILL REMAINS UNANSWERED ???
PBKs HAVE THE KNACK OF DODGING OR DILUTING THE CORE ISSUE RAISED, BY ENDEAVOURING TO SLINK AWAY SLYLY BY HIGHLIGHTING POINTS WHICH ARE IRRELEVANT TO THE CORE ISSUE BEING DISCUSSED, AND TOTALLY OVERLOOKING OR COMPLETELY DISREGARDING THE OTHER CRITICAL POINTS BEING RAISED, WITHIN THE SAME POST!
SUCH ABERRANT CONDUCT STEMS FROM THEIR DELUSIVE BELIEF THAT THE 'Godly FORM' OF Ravan OR Maya IS, IN FACT, GOD HIMSELF, AND THEREFORE THEY HAVE THE FULL CLOUT OR UNHARNESSED CONSENT TO RECKLESSLY TAMPER WITH THE PURE VERSIONS OF TRUE ShivBaba or REAL GOD, AS THEY DEEM FIT OR APPROPRIATE, (IN ACCORDANCE WITH THEIR ACTUALLY CORRUPTED AND PERVERTED INTELLECTS), DELUSIVELY BELIEVING THAT SUCH CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED VERSIONS ARE, IN FACT, THE UNLIMITED CLARIFICATIONS OF GOD HIMSELF, WHEN, IN FACT, THEY ARE THE UNLIMITED PERVERTED CLARIFICATIONS OF Ravan OR Maya, PERTAINING TO THE RELEVANT OCCURRENCES WITHIN Ravan Rajya, BEING RE-RECORDED OR 'REFRESHED' AS A BLUEPRINT, DURING THE RELEVANT 'SHOOTING' PERIOD IN THE Confluence Age!

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 08 Feb 2016

It is true that if the soul and the body become pure one will be called a deity, he will not be called a Brahmin anymore. But it is said that we, the Brahmins make effort to purify nature. Our body is included in nature. It is the closest part of nature to the soul. We have to make effort to purify our body. Why would we have to leave the body, or the nature that has already been purified through our effort.

The deity souls are no doubt with a pure soul and body in the Golden Age. But in the Confluence Age the foundation is laid. Why would only the soul become pure and not the body, if we make effort to purify both, why would we succeed in purifying the soul and not succeed in purifying nature.


= RESPONSE =

The issue has ALREADY BEEN ADDRESSED, ADEQUATELY and COMPREHENSIVELY, in the preceding post.
It would be pointless and meaningless to KEEP GOING AROUND THE SAME CIRCLES, AGAIN and AGAIN, with those who are CURRENTLY UNABLE to grasp the subtler aspects of the TRANSFORMATIVE PROCESSES.
Those who are able to comprehend may do so, others would have to continue making efforts to develop their subtle consciousness to an extent where the issue becomes SELF-EVIDENT, in the ACCURATE & UNADULTERATED REMEMBRANCE of REAL ShivBaba or God!

vrkrao
Posts: 69
Joined: 04 Aug 2013
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To seek the answers and understand the true knowledge behind conflicting Murli points and baba's clarification

Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by vrkrao » 08 Feb 2016

Dear PBK brothers,

Please feed food for the one who is hungry. If you are feeding the one whose stomach is full, you are certainly creating discomfort for them and they vomit it out immediately. Also, the secret of secrets should be communicated to only those who deserve it, else, you should understand that you are wasting the precious wealth (as in shooting period, so in broad drama)!

This is my understanding.

Om Shanti

LESSON:
THOSE WHOSE 'STOMACH' IS FULL WOULD CERTAINLY NOT BE 'SCOURING' AROUND FOR 'MORSELS' OF 'FOOD' !
Bible – New Testament – KJV - Matthew Ch 7 wrote: V-6: Give not that which is 'Holy' unto the 'DoGs'; neither cast ye your 'Pearls' before 'sWine', lest they trample them under their 'feet', and then turn again and rend you ! ! !
SAT

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests