VIEWS on "Murli points for churning and inculcation"

To discuss the BK and PBK versions relating to the progressive differential development of BK & PBK ideologies or theologies.
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Abhimanyu
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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 27 May 2015

Brahma is the mother. But a mother is required to take care of the mothers and sisters
(spinsters). So adopted daughter Brahma Kumari Saraswati has been fixed (i.e. entrusted with
the charge). These are so deep matters. (16-4-77, pg-2)


AIVV - PBK : Brahma(DLR) is the mother but the body was of male due to which Saraswati(Om Radhey) was fixed to take care of mothers and sisters. If Brahma is mother then who is the Father ? Inheritance(of heaven) is received from Father only. Unless and until we don't recognize the form of Father we are not entitled to receive his inheritance either. In Bhaktimarg Shankar is considered to be the deity who has no Father. Thus he is the Father of entire humanity. So inheritance would be received through Shankar(Virendra Dev Dixit) only. Thus, "These are so deep matters."

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Silly question - Baba says- Brahma is both Father and mother. Put here- Post No. 06, 7 and 8. - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ilit=lagaa

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Re: Murli Points

Post by shivsena » 28 May 2015

Abhimanyu wrote:Brahma is the mother. But a mother is required to take care of the mothers and Sisters (spinsters). So adopted daughter Brahma Kumari Saraswati has been fixed (i.e. entrusted with the charge). These are so deep matters. (16-4-77, pg-2)
Brother Abhimanyu.....All the points you are posting from 1970 are just copied and pasted from the Aivv literature and have been given to PBKs by their guru-Virendra Dev Dixit.....have you done any research yourself and read points in Murlis-Vanis about Maya-Ravan and tried to understand that all the points on Maya-Ravan fit perfectly on your guru-Virendra Dev Dixit, who has come in disguise as a sadhu, but in reality he is Ravan-partdhari.

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 01 Jun 2015

Bhog, TRANCE AND DIVINE VISION

• This Bhog (eatables etc. offered to God) etc. is neither knowledge nor meditation. One should not have any connection with these things. (18-7-70 pg-4)

• This Bhog etc. also will end at some point of time. You have been abusing Baba since half a
Kalpa. One requires a very subtle intellect in these matters. Father says through this Chariot,
“Remember me. I am the purifier of the sinful.” It’s sung that ‘I shall eat with you, sit with
you’. So he must certainly be here in a (human) Chariot, isn’t it? How can he be above (in the
Soul World)? (9-7-69 pg-4)

• Don’t think that if Baba eats the Bhog that is offered, then your intellect will be connected to
ShivBaba. No. this is pure food. (26-4-72 pg-2)

• This Bhog etc. is also a tradition. There’s nothing also in it. Lot of obstacles are created in
this. This is neither knowledge, nor meditation. (13-11-70 pg-2)

• Follow all the versions of Baapdada. Just as in the past Murlis there was a direction that
visiting heaven in trance during the process of Bhog is wastage of time, because this roaming
does not befit children. Now you have to give the proof of remaining continuously in the
journey of remembrance and imbibing the teachings in practical life. If you love Brahma
Baba, then what is the indication of love? Love does not mean shedding of tears. This is also
love but love means that you should also love the things loved by him. (AV. 21-1-69 pg-2)

• It has also been explained to children that one should eat only after feeding the feeder. You
eat from the Yagya (institution) of ShivBaba. So first he should be offered Bhog. People have
all these divine visions in the Subtle Region. This is fixed in the drama. You must offer Bhog to
ShivBaba. He is incorporeal.(1-9-78 pg-3)

• Not that trance is a nice thing. No, trance is not called meditation. Remembrance is not called
trance. (21-9-78 pg-3)

• Baba has seen more (divine visions) than you. Mama has not seen anything. She never went
into trance. She has become so clever in knowledge. (20-5-78 pg-3)

• In the beginning this Sandeshi and Gulzar used to have lot of divine visions. They have
played big roles because they had to be entertained in the bhatti (programme of knowledge
and meditation). (25-1-75 pg-3)

• Main thing is remembrance and knowledge. Divine vision is of no use. If you have
recognized Father, then start studying (11-6-75, pg-3)

• If someone goes into trance frequently then the ghosts of Maya enter. There are many who go
into trance and speak strangely. Don’t believe them. You keep getting knowledge through
Baba’s Murlis. Father keeps warning that trance is not useful. (17-6-75 pg-2)

• The stage of those who go into trance is weak. They keep repeating that (soul of) Mama,
(soul of) Baba had entered into me. Then they may say (the soul of) Vishwa Kishore had
come. Sometimes (the souls of) dog or cat may also enter. (30-3-68 pg-4)

• Even here many have divine visions. But it cannot cause true salvation, until they take the
teaching of knowledge and meditation, without teaching nothing will happen through divine
visions. (29-5-72)

• One should not say that we will believe (the knowledge) only when we have divine vision.
These are matters to be understood through the intellect. (24-10-73)

• Many say that we should have divine visions. Then Baba understands that they have not
understood anything. If you come here (to the complete stage) you will see the trees of
heaven. (31-12-71 pg-3)

• The role of trance, in which it’s said that Mama’s soul had entered into someone, ShivBaba
had entered into someone, is also a kind of Maya. One should proceed carefully. One should
understand by the way someone speaks. Ghosts enter into some people. Foolish people will
also say that ShivBaba has entered into me. (13-11-72 pg-2)

• At the end of weekly course Bhog is offered. So should Baapdada also offer Bhog now? You
people offer Bhog on every Thursday (or Guruvaar in Hindi which literally means day of the
Guru or preceptor) but Baapdada will accept Mahabhog, isn’t it? ... First offer Bhog to
yourself. You offer Bhog also to the Father, isn’t it? Now surrender yourself by always
becoming the form of practical fruit. Only then it will be a Mahabhog (majestic Bhog) offer
yourself after becoming complete. Don’t just offer physical Bhog (eatables) become perfect
and offer yourself. (AV. 28-4-82 pg-348)

• Baba says that this divine vision is also harmful. Knowledge and meditation stops whenever
someone has divine visions. The time is wasted. That’s why one should never have any
interest in having divine visions. The Maya destroys someone completely in these matters.
This is a big disease which causes loss. (26-1-75 pg-3)


AIVV - PBK : Now tally the above Murli points to BK world.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Nothing much significant. - baba says- Yaad/Yoga is first, next are gyaan/Murli and service, next comes trance/vision. All have their own values. Initially trance was necessary as knowledge was lesser. But, now it has reduced.

See- Post No. 18- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... g&start=10

Also baba has said- even reading Murli is not Yaad., and we know just 8 or 108 pass in the end. How do these prove God is not in BKWSU, but in Kampil? Is this the teaching method base to seek God/truth as per AIVV?

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Re: Murli Points

Post by shivsena » 02 Jun 2015

Abhimanyu wrote: Foolish people will also say that ShivBaba has entered into me. (13-11-72 pg-2)
The no. 1 foolish person in Sangamyugi world is Aivv-guru-Virendra Dev Dixit who teaches to PBKs that ShivBaba has entered in him.

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Re: Murli Points

Post by khemkaran » 02 Jun 2015

The no. 1 foolish person in Sangamyugi world is Aivv-guru-Virendra Dev Dixit who teaches to PBKs that ShivBaba has entered in him.
What is the remembrance of the foolish person of Sangamyug, which is described in Bhakti marg or Shaastras (Ved-Puran)?

==========

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : = RESPONSE =
"One should understand by the way someone speaks. Ghosts enter into some people. Foolish people will
also say (or IMPLY - which means ONE AND THE SAME THING) that ShivBaba has entered into me."
(13-11-72 pg-2)

CLEARLY, IN ACCORDANCE WITH WHAT HE ACTUALLY SPEAKS, AND IN THE WAY HE ACTUALLY SPEAKS, the remembrance of the NUMBER ONE foolish person of Sangamyug or Confluence Age, which is described in 'Bhakti Marg' or 'Shaastras' in the form of a DONKEY on the head of Ravan, is Virendra Dev Dixit, with a CORRUPTED & CONFOUNDED DONKEY INTELLECT!

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 02 Jun 2015

The whole mankind of the entire world is a devotee. The giver of knowledge is only one,
Supreme Father and Supreme Soul Shiva…..... There’s so much pomp and show in Bhakti (path of worship). You don’t have anything. In all other spiritual gatherings there will be sound. They will sing songs and worship. Here Baba does not like even this record (songs). In future, this may also stop. (24-8-76)


AIVV - PBK : "In all other spiritual gatherings there will be sound. They will sing songs and worship." We all know that in BKs spiritual gathering songs are played at the time of arrival of Avyakt BapDada in Gulzar Dadi. So the BK gathering is also included among other spiritual gatherings where there is sound. Also there is much pomp and show in BK ashram too. Like they will organize fairs, enact drama, sing songs, etc. So is not the BK organization too following the path of worship ? Otherwise in path of knowledge there is no need for pomp and show. And it is the AIVV spiritual institute only where knowledge is given value. Supreme Father Shiv alone is the ocean of knowledge and he becomes such ocean through corporeal body of Virendra Dev Dixit. Also it is the only spiritual institute where there is not even name and trace of path of worship and pomp and show.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : A futile and deliberate attempt to prove one self. In AIVV, music is played. Why? Because they absolutely no power or energy to do Yaad. They even cannot rejoice like BKs. But, yes, as Baba has said- one day- all these even pictures will stop or become unnecessary.

AIVV is fully dependent on Murlis spoken from Mount Abu. No direct/independent knowledge comes through Mr Dixit.

BTW, when PBKs call BKWSU as Bhakti, pomp, etc, why do they always take words spoken there and interpret them as they are Godly words? Do they have any sense?

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 10 Jun 2015

INCOGNITO EFFORT MAKER Father

• Hidden Rustum is revealed in the end. Those who study well teach and understand, can’t
remain hidden. (6-2-74)


AIVV - PBK : Who is the hidden Rustum who will be revealed in the end ? Brahma(DLR) is revealed to crores of BKs. That hidden Rustum is Shankar(Virendra Dev Dixit), the greatest deity who in present Confluence Age studies well, teaches and also understands the Murli in depth.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Really? - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&start=390

• Baba presents Himself at his time for service. Nobody comes to know. 5000 years back also you children knew number wise, as per the efforts put in. Kauravas could not recognize God. Even now it’s the same case. (4-2-74)

AIVV - PBK : Kauravas(BKs) who shouts a lot that heaven will come just like crows but are unable to do any major transformation and are unable to recognize
the form of God(Shankar/Virendra Dev Dixit).


PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : PBKs may believe so. But, they are totally in darkness as proved in the forum.

• Nowadays many souls feel that some spiritual light is doing its work incognito. But they can’t know the source from where this light is working. They have started getting this touching that
“there’s someone”. Finally, they will reach the destination after lot of searching. (10-11-87, A.V.)


AIVV - PBK : BKs shout a lot in the world that God has come then question of "lot of searching" doesn't arises. Then who is the spiritual light of knowledge who is doing his work in incognito form and for finding him lot of searching is required ? Answer : Shiv Shankar(Shiv + Virendra Dev Dixit)

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : PBKs are shouting a lot since 1980s on BKWSU. But, the pitiable situation of them is- their own jagadamba left AIVV since 1998, and their concept of Vedanti sister as Lakshmi, but not in AIVV! Mr Dixit is like a handicapped person and PBKs as orphans.

• Father is also incognito, children are also incognito, and all their efforts are incognito. Their donation, their reputation, their post, and their service everything is incognito. (20-5-73, 13-9-70)

AIVV - PBK : Well Brahma(DLR) is not incognito, the major Didi, Dadis are also not incognito, they are very famous in numerous BKs as well as in outside world and plus they command great reputation and respect. Then to whom is the above Murli point applicable ? Answer : Virendra Dev Dixit(Father) and his followers.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Baba is saying that- lowkikpeople do not realize what BKs do practically. Moreoever the real account of service, the depth of knowledge is just gud jaaney, gud kee gothri jaaney= ShivBaba knows, Brahma or few great souls only know.

BTW, (in PBK view)- PBKs are putting everything is their blog. Is their service hidden? AIVV has got split and two more splinter group have come out from it. Is this incognito? Mr Dixit gone to jail. Is this incognito?

• If Krishna teaches, then why does he say that one in crores recognizes me? Krishna will be recognized by everyone immediately. But as this (Brahma) is incognito, very rarely anyone understands.
(26-12-75, pg-1)


AIVV - PBK : Here Baba is indicating Krishna as the soul of Brahma(DLR).

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Just a statement without any comments? Baba is saying this for lowkik people. They will fall upon Krishna due to his attractive, divine personality- both physical and divinity.

BTW, AIVV believes Brahma Baba-Lekhraj Kirpalani enters in Mr Dixit too and reads Murlis. So?

• Abode of peace (Shantidham) and abode of prosperity (Sukhdham) is being established in incognito form. (20-9-77, pg-2)

AIVV - PBK : BKs are shouting a lot in whole world that Sukhdham is about to come. Then can it be said that Shantidham and Sukhdham is being established in incognito form in BK world ? Answer : Actually it is being established in PBKs world in incognito form.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Baba is saying that the process of establishment (Conf Age) is incognito for lowkik people. - A failure of PBKs by misinterpretation of such Murli point is seen here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2180&start=45 pdf copy of the Murli is attached - See post No. 20th July by mbbhat

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 01 Jul 2015

KAURAVAS - PANDAVAS

Howmuchsoever you explain them, it will not fit into their intellect. They cannot love Father, that's why there's a saying that Kauravas (the hundred villainous princes of the epic Mahabharata) had a negative intellect (or attitude), Pandavas (the five righteous princes of the epic Mahabharata) had a positive intellect (towards God). (18.11.74, pg.3)

AIVV - PBK : Love for Father is required in corporeal form, a point of light cannot be loved. So the BKs(Kauravas) no matter how much advance knowledge of AIVV is explained to them, it does not fit into their intellect. Plus they(BKs) have a negative intellect towards ShivBaba(Virendra Dev Dixit) and PBKs. Whereas the Pandavas(PBKs) have a positive intellect towards corporeal form of God(ShivBaba/Virendra Dev Dixit).

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : It is, because very few souls only will come to heaven, so few only will understand. But, if PBKs believe they have right knowledge, and BKs cannot understand them, let them believe so. But, from the discussions seen here, it creates a doubt - are PBKs aware of themselves of what they are saying/implying? But, all is drama. So, move on. Thank you for the great wishes.

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 02 Jul 2015

METHOD OF REMEMBRANCE

• Anything, when seen in corporeal form, can be absorbed easily. The thing, which
involves thinking through intellect, is absorbed late. Even here those who saw the corporeal medium (of God) in corporeal form feel remembrance to be very easy. (AV. 1-2-71 pg-2)

• Everyone has to obtain inheritance from the Father directly. The more you remember the Father personally, the more inheritance you will get. (31-7-70. pg-1)

• Remember me in the same way as the remembrance gets imprinted when a kanya (spinster or an unmarried girl) gets engaged. The remembrance of a child gets imprinted (in the mind) as soon as it is born. (18-6-75 pg-1)

• One should not utter the word “ShivBaba” orally. For e.g. lovers remember each other. They see just once. And then they remember just each other. (1-1-73 pg-3)

• Remember me continuously. Do not chant my name. Remember me. There’s a difference between remembrance and chanting (sumiran). In the process of chanting (sumiran) the hand and mouth also keep working. (11-2-73)

• Baba always says that consider as if we receive ShivBaba’s directions. Then you shall always remember ShivBaba. His direction should never be violated. (22-2-68 pg-4)

• OK. What is Supreme Soul, whom you remember? You say that he’s in the form of imperishable flame. But it is not so. It’s wrong to remember an imperishable flame. The remembrance should be accurate isn’t it? Only gossips will not work. One should know accurately (9-5-71 pg-2)

• You know that (ShivBaba) is in the body of Brahma. So surely you will have to remember here. He’s not above (in the Soul World). He has come here at this Confluence Age. Father says I have come here to make you so great. You children will remember here. Father says I am in (this) body. Remember me in this body. (24-12-70 pg-3)

• Although the point cannot be remembered in the intellect. OK! Then remember Shivling (the phallus-shaped idol representing Shiva) so that the sins could be cut. If you are practiced to remember a big form then let it be so. It means that remember ShivBaba. Even in the path of worship you remember Shiva isn’t it? Even if you remember the big form all your sins will be cut. (17-1-69 pg-1)

• Children ask, “How should we remember (Baba)? Many children get a doubt whether they should remember ShivBaba in Brahma’s body. Baba says that one should remember the soul. But the body also comes to the mind along with the soul. First body, then soul. Baba is sitting in this body. So the body will also come to the mind surely. (13-5-69 pg-1)

• Those who remember Father above (in the Soul World) follow the path of worship because they do not know the occupation. They do not know his name, fame, country, and time. (14-10-68 pg-1)

• I come in this body here and tell that you have to remember (me) there, where you have to go now. You should not remember (me) here. (19-4-78)

• It’s not that some one can remember (me) only when he comes face to face. There are sisters (bachiyaan) in foreign countries. They are not present in front (of me). So wherever one may be living, one should remember Baba with a lot of love. Just as a wife remembers her husband lovingly. When his letter is not received they get restless. You wives (valentines or sajniyaan) have found this husband (saajan or beloved) after groping in the dark for a long time. (27-7-77 pg-2)

• When bhatti (seven days programme of knowledge and meditation) is organized, then two or three days will pass nicely. The cooperation of the gathering is received in this. But one should not be dependent even on this. Sometimes one may get cooperation and sometimes one may not get it. Practice should not be dependant on anything…...... Dependence of one’s improvement on the basis of programme is also a weakness. (AV. 23-1-74 pg-2)

• One must remember the body and then the soul….... Whenever current (power) is to be given to others then one should be in remembrance (of God) in the night and in the mornings. Looking at the soul means giving searchlight. Those who remember (Baba) will receive (His) remembrance. (18-3-74 pg-3)

• If the knowledge is not fitted in the intellect completely, then one will not be able to do Yoga (i.e. remember Baba). (28-7-76 pg-3)

• Due to the practice of getting detached from the body, if someone attains the bodiless stage (ashariri stage or the stage of detachment from body) for even a few minutes, then it will be as if one has taken rest for 4 hours. Such a time will come when instead of sleep one will become bodiless (detached from the body) for 4 to 5 minutes. Just as the body gets nutrition from sleep, similarly one will also get nutrition (from the stage of detachment from the body). Bodies will be the old ones only. The karmic accounts will be the same. There will be only this addition. (AV 15-9-75 pg-133)

• Now Father comes and explains the truth, “Remember me.” This is unadulterated remembrance. That too meaningful remembrance. Nobody in the world is aware. You know that ShivBaba is a point (bindi)... OK. If you feel that point is small then house is big, isn’t it? So remember the house. Baba also stays there. (4-9-76 pg-3)

• One should practice this stage of point like form in between your work for one or two minutes also. For e.g. on some special days, practice of one or two minutes silence is ordered by stopping even the entire running traffic. All the works are stopped; you should also stop this traffic of thoughts in between while performing some work or while talking. One should practice stopping the thoughts of mind for even a minute by stopping the work being performed by the body. (AV. 11-11-76)

• Those who follow the path of renouncement can never teach RajYoga to those who follow the path of household. (20-1-74)

• Those who are easy natured themselves will remember (Baba) easily. Due to the lack of easiness, the remembrance will also not be easy. Who can be easy natured? The more someone is clear, i.e. clean in every matter the more he will be easy natured. The more someone is easy natured, the more easily they can remember God. (AV. 21-5-70 pg-253)

• By remembering the non-manifest form (vichitra) along with the manifest form (chitra) one will become well-charactered person himself also. If someone remembers the manifest form (chitra) and the character (charitra) separately, then only the character will remain in the thoughts. That’s why; one should remember the manifest form (chitra) and character (charitra) along with the non-manifest form (vichitra).
(AV. 18-1-70 pg-166)

• You practice remembrance. This is not a big achievement. But along with it the remembrance, one should be easy yogi and continuous yogi. If this does not happen then the remembrance will also be incomplete. (AV. 26-12-79 pg –155)

• Two lovers also love each other’s body. Both the lovers are bodily human beings. Lover will feel as if his beloved is standing before him. Then beloved will also see the lover only. Now you all are the lovers of the Supreme Father and Supreme Soul. Beloved is one and remaining all the souls are lovers. Now that incorporeal beloved Father gives you advice through this corporeal form. (8-8-78, pg-3)

• Come and sit in the remembrance of Shiva. No one else should come to your mind. Here you will get help. Sleep early and wake up early. (15-5-75 pg-3)

• Baba gives time that “O.K. Sleep at 9 PM and then get up at 2-3 AM and remember me. (3-5-75 pg-1)

• You should not close your eyes also. You have to sit in remembrance, isn’t it? One should not be afraid of opening the eyes. Eyes should be open and the mind should be busy in the remembrance of the beloved. Closing the eyes means becoming blind. It’s not the rule (to close the eyes). Father says, “Sit in remembrance.” Does he ask you to close your eyes? If you sit with your eyes shut or your shoulders bent, then how will Baba look at you? ..........If the eyes are closed then surely there’s something wrong. You must be remembering someone else. (28-3-75 pg-3)

• You can remember me in the latrine also. (22-4-77 pg-3)

• When He comes in the body of Brahma then the Brahmins can take birth through the mouth of Brahma. RajYoga is taught to those Brahmins only. Father says that you must not remember any subtle or corporeal or incorporeal pictures. You are given an aim. Human beings remember by looking at pictures. But Baba says “Stop looking at pictures. This is a path of worship (to look at pictures)”
(25-6-92 pg-2)


AIVV - PBK : The accurate form of remembrance is to remember point of light Shiva in his fixed corporeal medium Virendra Dev Dixit(Shankar).

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Baba says- in one eye, Shantidham, in another Sukhdham. And, baba has said- not to remember/attach to impure/Kaliyugi corporeal body. So, forcing to remember in Mr Dixit is a great violation of srimath. - Some points here- viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1991&p=28474&hilit=clearest#p28474

Baba has said - PURE and ETRENAL things are to be remembered. That is point ShivBaba, point soul, Paramdham, Heaven, angelic body, and Bhakti yaadgaars which all make our self esteem high.

More will be put later.

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 07 Jul 2015

This body itself will become a gold-like body
(Rejuvenation)


• Your soul and body both will become like gold (kanchan). This is wonderful, is not it? So you have to decorate (adorn) yourself like that.[Mu 2-11-70 Pg-1]

• In this Purushottam Sangamyug only, you become this (Lakshmi-Narayan)........ With the power of Yoga. You are becoming so golden. Both soul and body become golden (pure).[Mu 14-10-74]

• In case of snakes, there is no question of rebirth. It sheds the old skin and gets a new skin. Similarly, you too have to change over.[Mu 27-7-77 Pg-2]

• Give me all that you possess, including the body. I will purify both your soul and body. And then I shall give you the post of Kings.[Mu 25-4-73 Pg-3]

• The snake sheds its skin and gets another. It is not called death….... (You too) leave one body and take up another. This practice should be done here itself. [Mu 12-2-75 Pg-2]

• Going up (i.e., to the Soul World) means dying, leaving the body. Who wants to die? Here Father has said that you forget this body. He is teaching you to die while living.[Mu 25-8-70 Pg-2] [Mu 25-8-75 Pg-2]

• Father sits and explains the meaning. Just as a snake sheds its old skin, on its own. It doesn't leave one body and enter another. Only snake is an example of changing skin. It can see the shedding of its skin, just as a person undresses. The snake also leaves the skin and gets a new one. The snake remains alive. It’s not that it remains alive forever. If it sheds it’s skin twice or thrice and then dies. [Mu18-7-70 Pg-2]

• You will leave your body just as a snake sheds away the old skin and gets a new one.
[Mu 21-12-75 Pg-3]

• Although someone may be a millionaire here, but they are still sad, because their body cannot be rejuvenated. Your body is rejuvenated.[Mu 28-1-73 ]

• Guru Nanak has also said Moot paleeti kappad dhoye (i.e., washing clothes that have been spoilt by urine). Lux ('lakshya' in Hindi, means 'aim or target') soap is there Father says I am such a good washer man. I make your clothes so clean. Have you seen such a washer man? [Mu 22-5-73 Pg-3]

• I come here only and purify the whole world, including the five elements.[ Mu 16-1-76 Pg-1]

• All these clothes will be washed. This is unlimited machinery. There is a saying "Moot paleeti kappad dhoye"(i.e., washing clothes spoilt by urine or semen). It is not about these clothes (which we wear). It is about the body. Souls have to be washed with the power of Yoga. Now the five elements are tamopradhan (degraded), so the bodies are also similar. The purifier Father has come to purify us and the sinful will be destroyed. [Mu 6-8-76 Pg-1]

• Father comes, changes the world and makes the bodies like the Kalpa tree (the wish tree referred to in the Hindu mythology). Your body has become totally old. This is again made such that you do not die for half a Kalpa, although you change bodies, but with pleasure, just as you leave the old dress and wear the new one. You will not say that some body has died. No, it is not called death. Just as you learn to die while living. Do you really die? You have become ShivBaba's child. [Mu 27-1-78 Pg-1 : 27-1-73 Pg-1]

• This is a very valuable body. The soul receives lottery from Father through this body only. [Mu 8-10-74]

• There is only one sailor i.e. the Father who can sail this soul and boat-like body across. It's called a dress as well as a boat.[Mu 3-11-74]


AIVV - PBK : BKs believe that they will leave their bodies and get golden-like body in next birth. However the above Murli points prove that we(PBKs) will transform their bodies into golden-like kanchankaya body in this birth itself. ShivBaba is washerman, as he washes our body-like clothes. Now if a washerman says that give your clothes and I will give it back(after washing) in next birth, then will anyone give his clothes to such a washerman ? Similarly, if some study is taught then it's fruit should be received in this birth itself. For example, if engineering is taught then the student will become engineer in this birth itself. If study of becoming a doctor is taught then the person will become doctor here itself, in this birth. Similar is the case with the studies of law and other professions. If the teacher says study engineering here and you will become engineer in another birth, then will anyone study ? ShivBaba doesn't teach us blind faith. If we are studying the knowledge and RajYoga to become a deity, then we should become deity here itself in this birth(with golden-like body). Now only those students will become deity here itself who study the complete knowledge and RajYoga through fixed Chariot of Shiva, i.e. Virendra Dev Dixit(Shankar).

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : A clear misunderstanding by taking isolated Murli points. There are lots of Murli points which say- Old body will not become pure. BTW, about the snake,

1)SM 18-10-77(3):- Ab paarlowkik Baap kahte hain yah puraane sharir kaa bhaan chodo. Gyaan se, apney buddhi se is sharir may rahte bhaan chodnaa hai. Yah abhi samajhte hain jaise sarp khal chodtaa hai aur nayi letaa hai, TOH YAH BAATH ABHI SE NAHIN LAGTI. Satyug SE LAGTI HAI. Toh tum bhi Satyug se lekar khal chodnaa shuru karenge. – 70, 70- [SP, oldbody]

2)SM 4-4-78(2):- Humaari kaayaa kalp vruksh samaan REJUVENATE HO RAHI HAI. Aajkal rejuvenate karte hain. Jaanvaron ki glans(may be glands), haddi aadi nikaal manushyon may daal dete hain. -83

= Our body is going to get rejuvenated like kalp vruksh. The bones, glands of animals are put into human beings. [See- Baba is saying rejuvenate means replacement. ]

3)SM 3/8/99(2):- sakshatkar to dher hote hain. Jaise shuru may bahut sakshatkar karte the. Pichaadee may bhee bahut sakshatkar karenge. Mirvaa mowth malukaa shikaar.. Itney dher manushy hai. Vah sab shareer chod denge. SHAREER SAHIT KOYI BHEE Satyug MAY VAA SHANTIDHAM MAY NAHEEN JAAYENGE.

= Lots of visions happen. As in the beginning ther were lots of visions, even at the end also. ..... There are many human beings. They all will leave their bodies. No one can enter either Shantidham or Satyug with (the the present) body.

Of course, there are Murli points which say both go on becoming pure together.

4)SM 9-9-83(3):- Yah sharir part bajaate2 ab puraanaa ho gayaa hai. Ab phir mere bano toh tumhaari atma aur sharir donon shuddh banenge. DONON IKATTE SAAF HOTE JAATE HAIN. Atma jo apavitr bani hai unko shuddh banaanaa hai. Mere saath Yoga lagaaney se he shuddh banenge. – 5 [Yaad, old body -imp]

Baba sometimes speaks to develop intoxication in us. And- it is also right that as we do Yaad, our body becomes sheetal/clean.

More comments will be put later. But, collections or Murli points are attached.
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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by admin » 09 Jul 2015

Dear 'Abhimanyu',

This topic has been shifted from the PBK sub-forum here, to avoid duplication, and additional work of copying your posts twice in two different locations. This would now afford others, who may not visit the PBK sub-forum, to take congnizance of PBK viewpoint, and be INTERACTIVE.

These Versions can still be used by any member in any other suitable sub-forum, by themselves, to present their own views. However, due caution should still be exercised, while using these points, since some typographical and transmission errors could have inadvertently crept in some Versions, rendering their meaning different from the original.
The efforts of members of AIVV in compiling these Versions under different headings, and the efforts of Abhimanyu in duly presenting them on the forum, are very much appreciated.

SAT

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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 10 Jul 2015

admin wrote:Dear 'Abhimanyu',

This topic has been shifted from the PBK sub-forum here, to avoid duplication, and additional work of copying your posts twice in two different locations. This would now afford others, who may not visit the PBK sub-forum, to take congnizance of PBK viewpoint, and be INTERACTIVE.
Thanks !!!

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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 12 Jul 2015

Duties of Father:

• Father doesn't have anyone to remember, except children. You have many (people to remember). Your mind goes here and there. Your mind goes towards your business. I don't have any other business, etc. You, numerous children have numerous businesses. I have only one business. [18-6-75 Pg-2]

• What's the first quality that makes souls the masters of Father too, or greater than Father. That quality is to reveal Father, bring souls nearer in relationship to Father, to make souls the inheritors of Father. This is the duty of the first creation, i.e. YOU. Father is revealed through children only.
[Av 18-3-73Pg-101]

• When and how was the flame of destruction ignited? Who was instrumental (for that)? Was Shankar instrumental, or creators of Yagya, i.e., the Father and the Brahmin children were instrumental?
Ever since this Yagya was created for the purpose of establishment (of the new world), the flame of destruction ignited from the Yagya Kund (literally meaning sacrificial altar, but here it refers to the spiritual family that God has established) along with the task of establishment ...
So, those who ignite the flame must put it off too, and not Shankar. The flame of destruction which has been ignited has to be put off only by reaching the flame like stage of Shankar. [Av.3-2-74 Pg-13]

• Father causes destruction through the one who is not affected by the sins. Destruction of various religions is done by the Father only. No one else can do it. [21-1-74]

• Family planning is of the the duty of God of Gita i.e. Father... Gita is the scripture of family planning.
[Mu 27-3-74 Pg-1]

• Last is fast. Novices gallop faster (i.e. are cleverer) than the older ones. Those who are fully connected with the Father (through remembrance) climb very high (in the path of worship). Everything depends on Yoga. [Mu.4-9-74]

• Baba says that in this journey of Yoga (remembrance) you gallop faster than me. He (Brahma) has to look after so many matters. [2-12-74 Pg-3]

• Father comes and liberates from the chains of Gurus (preceptors), then from the chains of Bhakti (worship). Father liberates us from slavery. [25-6-73 Pg-2]

• Liberator from drowning (into sins) is only one, but there are many who entrap. [30-1-74 Pg-3]

• The souls take next birth as per the 'sanskars' or resolves of this birth. Just as resolves of fighting are embedded in the minds of fighters. So they carry these resolves with them. They cannot keep quiet without fighting. [6-2-74 Pg-2]

• When the sun rises its heat is felt. [22-6-73]

• Father goes after establishing the Golden Age, by telling the truth. [25-12-69]

• They (i.e. the religious fathers) just establish the respective religions and go away (i.e. take re-birth) but they do not establish kingdoms. It is the Father only who establishes Delhi Kingdom. (13.3.74, pg.2)

• One can know God in totality, but it is difficult to know his creation fully. [Mu 25-9-73 Pg-1]

• You are like a light house guiding everyone to their destination. There is nothing which does not apply to you. [Mu 11- 4 - 74 Pg-3]

• Mahakaal (Lord of Death) is called for mega destruction. So many souls will go back. They get ground by
experiencing the punishment (of negative thoughts). Baba has caused divine visions about the punishments. Somebody will become instrumental, is not it? In return, he gets absolved of many sins.


AIVV - PBK : Now Brahma Baba(DLR) has already left the corporeal body, so above Murli points are not applicable to him. He cannot be called Father.
Father is Virendra Dev Dixit(Shankar), so all the above points are applicable to him.


PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Pat your back and be happy at least of this level- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=160

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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 19 Jul 2015

Baap-Dada is sometimes visible directly. Sometimes he seems to be hidden behind the curtains. But Baap-Dada is always visible before the children ...................why do you make the indestructible relationship destructible by saying, "Baba has gone". Only the part (role) has changed. Just as you change your place of service, Father Brahma has also changed his place of service. Form is the same. Service is the same. Presently the role of thousand-armed Brahma is going on. Because of this only, this form of Brahma is
worshipped and remembered in the corporeal world. The arms (i.e, the souls who assist God Shiva in the task of world transformation) cannot work without the Father. The arms are revealing the Father. Revealer is there. That's why the revelation is going on. [Av. 18-1-78 Pg-35]


AIVV - PBK : BKs say that Shiva was present in Brahma till 1969 and then with the death of Brahma, Shiva left for supreme abode. But the above point does not prove so. Shiv has not gone. Only his role has changed. Meaning just as Shiv played the role of mother through DLR as Brahma(Brahm = big + Ma = mother). Similarly Shiv plays the role of Father through Virendra Dev Dixit as Shankar. Since the corporeal medium of Shiv changed from Brahma to Shankar his place of service also changed. Also, only corporeal person(Father/ShivBaba/Virendra Dev Dixit + Shiv) could be revealed. A point of light could not be revealed to the world, which the Brahmakumaris are trying for.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Childish level of understanding and arguments. In the Murli point, it says arms are revealing. Arms are children. Do PBKs believe Mr Dixit is an arm?

Moreoever, BKs do not believe Shiva left to Supreme Abode. They believe both Shiv and B baba are in combined form in Subtle Region.

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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 01 Aug 2015

FAITH & FAITHLESSNESS

• If you have faith that Father has come from the Soul World to give us the Kingdom then they will come immediately and meet Baba. They will not listen to anyone else. They will not even listen to (lokik) father. (2-1-73 pg-3)

• Although someone gives in writing that surely ShivBaba is teaching. But one should not be
happy with this. They do not have any faith. Although someone writes a letter, Baba writes
to them that you don’t have any faith. If someone has faith that we get inheritance from the
most beloved Father, then one will not wait even for a second. The conscience says that the
poor people will run immediately (to meet God after getting the message). The rich will come
rarely. (15-2-78 pg-3)

• When you have the faith that the lamp (i.e., God) has come, then why not sacrifice yourself
on it (like a moth). Arey! When you have come to know of such a Baba, then you should run
immediately (to meet him). Some come to Baba and say that I have faith (in Baba’s
knowledge) since last 12 months. Arey! Where were you all those months? You have come to
meet me today. Baba has come to make you master of heaven. Can’t you meet him? Once
someone becomes faithful he will even jump out of the jail and run away to meet the Father.
When Baba listens (about this) he wonders that it has been two years and you haven’t come to
meet such (God) who makes you master of the Heaven? (12-5-73 pg-4)

• Those who become completely faithful will not listen to anyone. They will catch Him
(i.e. God) immediately. Whatever may happen we shall not separate. We get so many
indestructible gems of knowledge. (11-3-78 pg-3)

• People understand that the Father of all souls is one. But it’s very difficult to have faith that he
has come in him (Brahma Baba) and is giving inheritance. When it fits into somebody’s intellect and gives it in writing then the written matter should be brought to Baba. (21-10-73 pg-3)

• If anyone gets faith in the fact that the unlimited Father is teaching and giving the inheritance
of 21 births then they cannot stay without meeting. If someone has become (Baba’s) children,
then Father will give direct inheritance. Initially sit in the bhatti (the induction training) for
seven days. Then you will get this knowledge. (22-12-73)

• Faithful soul will not cry or become body conscious. (17-12-73 pg-3)

• Faithful souls will write a letter at least once in a week; even if it is a postcard (the cheapest
form of communication in India). Baba I remember you. I do this (kind of) service to you. If
someone writes the news of service then I can be confident. If someone shows the proof of
service then Baba will understand that there’s good hope in this child. And one should also
understand that Baba is alone. We children are many. It’s not that Baba has to give response
to everybody. No. If anyone is poor then he/she can get the charges for the ticket.
(22-12-73 pg-3)

• One should have full faith in this. ShivBaba cannot commit any mistake. He (i.e., Brahma Baba)
can commit mistake. These two (i.e. incorporeal and corporeal Father) are together. But one
should have faith that it is ShivBaba who explains. We have to follow his directions. If you
proceed (in your life) thinking that it is ShivBaba’s Shrimat (direction) then wrong (ulta) will
also turn into right (sulta). (19-1-71 pg-3)

• Until you have the faith that these are the versions of the Supreme Father Supreme Soul, I
shall not accept whatever you say. First try and become faithful. (22-1-71 pg-4)

• Those who become faithful must come and meet the Father. Baba I catch hold of your
feet. (22-12-73)

• Now Ram ShivBaba is giving advice. There’s victory in faith. There will not be loss in this.
Father will convert loss into profit, but only in case of faithful ones. Doubtful ones will keep
incurring losses. Faithful ones will never incur loss. They will feel that ShivBaba is in this
Chariot (of Brahma Baba). He is giving advice. Completely faithful ones will never incur loss.
Baba is giving a guarantee Himself. (10-12-68 pg-2)

• Faithless souls will not get power. They will always be unwell and will keep groping in the
dark and keep getting entangled. When there’s no remembrance, there will not be power
(strength) to wipe out sorrows. Many remember Mama. They do not have faith. Faithless
souls will get destroyed, i.e. their prosperity is destroyed. (8-11-68 pg-1)

• As soon as anyone gets negative doubt regarding Father, he dies. Why do you doubt the one
who makes you like a diamond? You shall be called an idiot if you leave Father due to any
reason. (1-9-69)

• If you have complete faith in yourself, in Father and in the Drama then it’s impossible that
you don’t get victory. If you don’t get victory then surely there is lack of faith in some or the
other point. (A.V. 12-12-83 pg-47)

• Although (children) write, “We have faith, we know Baba”, even then they slow down (in the
path of knowledge). If children don’t come for 6-8 months, 2-3 years, then Father thinks that
they are not completely faithful. They have not become fully intoxicated. (27-8-76)

• The atmosphere becomes pure through all those who achieve victory by being faithful. They
keep doing service through thoughts because people from all over look at the faithful souls
and feel that they have obtained something. (A.V. 17-12-79 pg-128)

• Even if there is a little worry it indicates lack of faith. What’s the reason for the little worry
that comes in any matter? Surely there’s lack of faith in something. It may be lack of faith in
the drama or lack of faith in oneself. Even if there’s a little deficiency of faith of all three
kinds, then one cannot remain free of worries. (A.V. 13-1-86 pg-152)

• As soon as anyone becomes Father’s child, he becomes entitled to the inheritance. Once
someone recognizes and says that this is Prajapita Brahma or Brahma, s/o ShivBaba, then, by
becoming faithful, one gets the inheritance. (2-1-73)

• Intelligent children will always think that whatever happens is beneficial (kalyankari)....
Although it may outwardly appear to be causing loss, but there’s benefit even in that loss…...
Let anything happen. Father is ours and we are Father’s (children). So nobody can do
anything. Such a soul is called faithful. (A.V. 7-3-81 pg-26)

• It’s not just faith in the Father, Teacher & Satguru (true preceptor), but along with this faith,
one must follow with complete faith his orders, his teachings and his Shrimat (directions).
(A.V. 26-5-69 pg-64)

• Faithful victorious souls will never describe their victory. They will not blame others.
(They will never say that) Look, I was right, isn’t it? Blaming others and describing like this is
indicative of hollowness. Hollow things bounce a lot, isn’t it? (A.V. 25-11-85 pg-55)

• Is there ever percentage in faith? We are surely the children of Father, isn’t it? There’s no
percentage in this matter. Does anyone say that he’s 90% my Father and for the remaining
10% he is not. Have you seen such a child ever? Faith means 100% faith ....... The first sign
of faithful intellect is victory. (A.V. 9-2-75 pg-57)

• The results of the previous Kalpa are fixed, but remove the veil. Now the brides are under
veil. Now bring your faith into practice. (13-4-73)

• It’s not a great thing to remain cool in cool atmosphere. It’s also an ordinary matter to feel
comfortable while living amongst means of comfort. But feeling comfortable in
uncomfortable atmosphere is called a million times lucky life. (A.V. 29-9-73)

• There are four things to become faithful -faith in Father –knowing and accepting Father, as he
is, and as he’s playing his role. (A.V. 8-2-75 pg-54)

• There is only one star which does not change its position. Are you such a star? It’s the star
with strong resolve which is called pole star (dhruvatara) in your world. (A.V. 20-5-74)

• Indication of stars of success is that there will be strong resolve in their every thought that
“We have achieved success many times and even now our success is fixed”........ They will
be faithful in every matter…... Many souls will receive guidance through their every action.
Their every action will become instrumental in teaching a lesson to many souls and their
every deed (charitra) will be an embodiment of education. (A.V. 14-7-74)

• The examination of faith is that “Will you remain unshakable even if those things which you
consider as “possible” appear before you as impossible in the form of a question paper?
(A.V. 8-2-75)

• Asking different types of questions, whether to self or others or to Father is an indication that
the soul is not a 'swadarshan chakradhari' (one who spins the cycle of 84 births in his
mind) and hence 'chatradhari' (a king who is always accompanied by servants carrying royal
umbrella behind him). (A.V. 18-9-75)


AIVV - PBK : Faith cannot be had on a point of light(what BKs believe). Having faith or no faith can be had only on corporeal(i.e. Father/ShivBaba/Virendra Dev Dixit(Ram + Shiv))

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Faith is in all- first point of light and drama, then Brahma Baba- both is corporeal and subtle parts, then self, then on the whole braahmin family.

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