Baba gives us power

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atma
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Baba gives us power

Post by atma » 12 May 2006

I remember this being said often amongst the bk's. That Baba gives us power.

What exactly does can this mean?

Doesn't Baba simply just give us knowledge then it is us who is to apply it?

atma

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 13 May 2006

Dear Atma,
Om Shanti.
Baba gives us power in many ways.
Firstly He gives us knowledge, which when applied to our practical life, gives us power.
Secondly, realization of self as a soul and remembrance of the Supreme Father through his corporeal medium also gives us power.
Thirdly, we can get power when we sit in soul consciousness and recieve drishti from ShivBaba.
Fourthly, we can get power when Baba Himself remembers His serviceable children and gives us power called sakaash.
With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

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Post by khormozian » 28 May 2006

Om Shanti Arjun
I don't understand how the idea of Baba giving sakaash can be reconciled with the idea of Baba being abhogta (I am unsure of the spelling). Feel free to correct any part of the following.

The definition of abhogta is something like "beyond the influence of action", which can mean one of several things:
  • 1. Baba performs no actions.
    2. Baba only performs actions which perfectly provide the return of other souls' karma and adds nothing which would require that He receive a return Himself.
    3. Baba is subject to different laws than the rest of the souls and He can do any action without incurring karma.
    4. I misunderstood the Sakar Murlis in which I thought it was said that Baba is abhogta.
    5. Baba is abhogta but my definition of abhogta is inaccurate.
I don't think 3) is correct because it would imply that Baba could do something harmful to a soul without incurring any penalty. 2) has the same implication so I am ruling that one out as well. If it's 1), then I need to change my understanding of the word "action" because if nothing else, He has given us His introduction, which I would think of as action. I am hoping you can ask Baba which one it is.

Regards, Kurosh

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aimée
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Post by aimée » 02 Jun 2006

For me abhoghta (your spelling might be also correct) means beyond the effect of actions. In one of the websites there is a dictionary, in it it is said: "non affected by action, Shiva".
The way I see it is that God needs to do specific tasks to accomplish his duty, to destroy hell and establish heaven, for that he has to accomplish certain tasks, he might take a fiersome form through an instrument, or he might do something that is reprehensible in the eyes of ordinary moral thinking, but because he is what he is, he is not affected because he does it for a selfless purpose.
It is similar for us in a way, that the actions we do, whichever they are, if they are done when we are soulconscious, then they generate good karma, if they are done in bodyconsciousness, then they generate bad karma.
So this bring us away from your first question. Arjun responded to it in a very clear way. ShivBaba gives us power, but is not affected by what he gives to whom. He also gives to the children who are not following Shrimat, and go against him, because the child who shows courage, Baba gives help.

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Post by arjun » 03 Jun 2006

Dear Kurosh,
Om Shanti. Sister Aimee has already given a good reply to your question. I would only add a few more words.

"Abhokta" as you said is someone who is not influenced by the actions that he performs. Baba says that anyone who possesses either a physical or subtle body will have a selfish motive. But since the Supreme Soul does not possess any body, He does not have any selfish motive. Since His name itself is Shiv, i.e. benefactor, anything that He does is for the benefit or upliftment of the mankind. As Aimee has pointed out, His actions may appear to be harmful for some but benefits lies even in such actions.
He does not incur any karma because He is always in a perfect incorporeal/ soul conscious stage.
However, I would convey your question to Baba and let you know his reply.
With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

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