Sakar Murli Points for churning

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 06 Mar 2008

Murli Pt. No.73 (Rajyog - when and through whom)

"Ab Parampita Parmatma kahtey hain deh sahit yah sab patit sambandh chod mamekam Yaad karo toh paavan ban jaayengey. Yah Gita kay hee akshar hain. Hai bhi Gita ka yug. Gita Sangamyug par hee gaai hui thi jab vinaash hua tha. Baap nay Rajyog sikhaaya tha. Raajai sthaapan hui thi, fir jaroor hogi. Yah sab roohani Baap samjhaatey hain na. Chalo is tan may na aaye aur koi may bhi aaye. Samjhaani toh Baap kee hai na. Ham inka toh naam letey nahee hain. Ham toh sirf batlaatey hain – Bap kahtey hain mujhey Yaad karo toh tum paavan ban aur merey paas chaley aayengey." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 25.11.05, page 2)

“Now the Supreme Father Supreme Soul says, ‘leave all the sinful relationships including this body and remember only me, then you will become pure.’ These are the words of Gita only. It is also an age (era) of Gita. Gita was sung in the Confluence Age only when the destruction had taken place. Father had taught Rajyog. The kingdom was established. Then it will certainly be established again. All this is explained by the spiritual Father, isn’t it? O.K. he may not have come in this body, he may have come in any other body also. But, Father gives the explanation, isn’t it? We do not utter his (i.e. Dada Lekhraj’s) name. We only say – Father says, ‘Remember me. Then you will become pure and come to me.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 25.11.05, page 2 published by BKs)

• Father says, “Gita was sung in the Confluence Age only when the destruction had taken place. Father had taught Rajyog. The kingdom was established.” Gita was definitely narrated by Father Shiv through the body of Brahma Baba, but neither had destruction taken place at that time and neither was the kingdom established until Brahma Baba was alive. So does it mean that Father Shiv narrates Gita through the body of Brahma, and teaches Rajyog and establishes the kingdom through some other personality, when the destruction takes place?
• Baba is telling, “O.K. he may not have come in this body, he may have come in any other body also.” But, Father gives the explanation, isn’t it? Does it mean that Father Shiv narrates Gita through the body of Brahma and explains the same through Shankar?
• Baba is telling, “leave all the sinful relationships including this body and remember only me, then you will become pure.” BKs say that BapDada comes in the body of Gulzar Dadiji and they remember Shiv through Gulzar Dadiji at that time, but during the remaining time, they either remember ShivBaba by looking at the photo of Brahma Baba or remember Shiv by taking drishti from the BK sister sitting on the sandali or remember the point of light Supreme Soul in the Soul World. How can it this remembrance of ShivBaba in different ways be termed as ‘remembering only me’? Will remembering Shiv through one definite Chariot be called ‘remembering only me’? The chariots of Brahma Baba and Gulzar Dadiji was/is temporary. So, then who and where is the appointed Chariot of Father Shiv, which remains with the children from the beginning of the Confluence Age to the destruction at the end and until the establishment of kingdom?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by suryavanshi » 09 Mar 2008

Dear Arjun Bhai,

This is a real good service of posting these Murli points here from which not only the BKs but also PBKs would benefit.
Just wanted to confirm whether the churning or clarification that is given below each Murli point cited here is being given by Baba or is verified by Baba or not.

Om Shanti

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 10 Mar 2008

Suryavanshi wrote:This is a real good service of posting these Murli points here from which not only the BKs but also PBKs would benefit.
Just wanted to confirm whether the churning or clarification that is given below each Murli point cited here is being given by Baba or is verified by Baba or not.
Thanks for the complement, but I am just an instrument in posting these Murli points and the churnings, which were circulated to all the PBKs by Baba (through nimit instruments) and hence are verified by Baba.

The actual photocopies of these revised Sakar Murlis can also be scanned and uploaded on this forum as a proof, but it may take some time. A few months of Revised Sakar Murlis published by BKs have been uploaded on the forum in the 'downloads' section and many more are to follow.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 28 Mar 2008

Murli Pt. No.74 (Human beings can’t teach Rajyog)
"Magazine may bhi nikaala hai, manushya kya kahtey aur Bhagwaan kya kahtey hain. Baap koi gaali nahee detey hain, bachhon ko samjhaatey hain kyonki Baap toh sabko jaantey hain na. Samjhaaney liye kahtey hain – inmay aasuri gun hain, aapas may ladtey rahtey hain. Yahaan toh ladney kee darkaar nahee hai. Vah hai Kaurav arthaat aasuri sampradaay. Yah hain daivi sampradaay. Baap samjhaatey hain – manushya, manushya ko mukti va jeevanmukti kay liye Rajyog sikhlaayein, yah ho nahee sakta. Is samay Baap hee tum aatmaon ko sikhla rahey hain." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 14.10.05, page 2)

“It has also been brought out in the magazine, what do the human beings say and what does God say. Father does not abuse anyone; He explains the children because Father knows everyone, isn’t it? In order to explain He says – They possess demoniac qualities; they keep fighting amongst themselves. There is no question of fighting here. They are Kaurav, i.e. demoniac community. These are deity community. Father explains-It cannot be possible for the human beings to teach Rajyog to human beings for mukti (salvation) or jeevanmukti (true salvation while living in the body). Now Father is only teaching you souls.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 14.10.05, page 2 published by BKs)

• After Brahma Baba left his body, it is human beings who claim to be teaching Rajyog to human beings at Madhuban and BK Centers. But Baba is telling that – “It cannot be possible for the human beings to teach Rajyog to human beings for mukti or jeevanmukti. Now Father only is teaching you souls.” This proves that the Yoga being taught by human beings to human beings at the BK centers is not Rajyog. It is famous in Gita also that a householder Shri Krishna taught Rajyog to another householder Arjun. Then how can unmarried Brahmakumari sisters sit and teach Rajyog to married human beings? In order to teach Rajyog Father will have to come in the form of a householder only, isn’t it? So then where is Father teaching Rajyog? Is it true that after Brahma Baba’s demise incorporeal Shiv teaching Rajyog through his final Chariot Mahadev Shankar, who is also called Yogeshwar and is shown closest to the Soul World in the picture of Three Worlds published by Brahmakumaris?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 11 Apr 2008

Murli Pt. No. 75 (Birthday of Shiv)

"Ab ShivBaba toh hai niraakaar, Supreme Soul. Us aatma par naam hai Shiv. Aatma par naam ek hee ShivBaba ka hai…..Baaki jo bhi aatmaen dher kee dher hain un sabkey shareeron kay naam padey huay hain…..Baap toh bahut badaa kaam yahaan kartey hain. Avtaar maantey hain toh unki toh holiday aur stamp aadi honi chaahiye. Sab deshon may holiday honi chaahiye kyonki Baap toh sabka sadgati data hai na. Unka janma din aur chaley jaaney ka din, date aadi ka bhi pataa nahee pad sakta kyonki yah toh nyaara hai na. Isliye sirf Shivraatri kah detey hain." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 3.11.05, page 2)

“Now ShivBaba is incorporeal, Supreme Soul. That soul is named Shiv. Only ShivBaba has a name based on soul. .... All the remaining numerous souls have names based on their bodies. .... Father performs a very big task here. He is considered to be an incarnation. So there should be a holiday and stamp etc. for Him. There should be a holiday in all the countries because Father is the bestower of true salvation upon every one (sabka sadgati data), isn’t it? One cannot know about his birthday and the day, date, etc. of departure because He is unique (nyaara), isn’t He? That is why people say just Shivratri (night of Shiv).” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 14.10.05, page 2 published by BKs)

• Baba is telling that – “Only ShivBaba has a name based on soul. .... All the remaining numerous souls have names based on their bodies.” Brahmakumaris show Brahma to possess a corporeal body, but in respect of Shankar and Vishnu they say that they are only Subtle Region dwellers. Does the above Murli point not prove that Shankar and Vishnu must also possess a corporeal body, even if their stage is subtle?
• Baba is telling that – “One cannot know about his birthday and the day, date, etc. of departure because He is unique (nyaara), isn’t He?” But the day of entry and departure of Avyakt BapDada in the body of BK Gulzar Dadi is fixed many months in advance. Does it not prove that it is only the soul of Brahma Baba, i.e. a human soul which is entering into Gulzar Dadiji and not the Supreme Soul Shiv, whose date of entry and departure cannot be known, just as one never used to know about the entry of Shiv into Brahma Baba? So, then where and in which body is Shiv playing His role after 1969?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 06 May 2008

Murli Pt.No.76. (PRAJAPITA BRAHMA CERTAINLY REQUIRED HERE)

"Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar hain sookshmavatan kay devataen. Prajapita Brahma toh jaroor yahaan chaahiye. Prajapita Brahma kay bachhey Brahmakumar-kumariyan dher hain. Jab tak Brahma kay bachhey na banein, toh Brahman na banein, toh ShivBaba say varsa kaisey lengey. Kukh kee paidais toh ho na sakey. Gaaya bhi jaata hai mukhh vanshaavali. Tum kahengey ham Prajapita Brahma kee mukhh vanshavali hain. Vah guruon kay followers hotay hain. Yahaan tum ek ko hee Baap-Teacher-Satguru kahtey ho. So bhi inko nahee kahtey ho. Niraakaar ShivBaba bhi hai…..Teacher bhi vah niraakaar hai jo saakaar dwara gyaan sunaatey hain." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 02.02.06, page 3)

“Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar are the deities of the Subtle Region. Prajapita Brahma is certainly required here. There are a lot of children, i.e. Brahmakumar-kumaris of Prajapita Brahma. Until one becomes the child of Brahma, they cannot become Brahmins; then how can they obtain the inheritance from ShivBaba? There cannot be reproduction through womb. ‘Mukhh Vanshavali” (mouth-born progeny) is also famous. You will say that we are the mouth born progeny of Prajapita Brahma. They are followers of Gurus. Here you call only ‘one’ as Father-Teacher-Satguru. That too you do not call him as that. Incorporeal ShivBaba is also there…. It is that incorporeal who is the teacher, and who narrates knowledge through the corporeal medium.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 02.02.06, page 3 published by BKs)

- Since 1969 Brahmakumar-kumaris believe Brahma to be only a Subtle Region dweller. But Baba is telling that – “Prajapita Brahma is certainly required here.” Does the above Murli point not prove that the actual soul playing the role of Prajapita Brahma should be present in this world now?
- Baba is telling that until one becomes the mouth-born progeny of Brahma, one cannot obtain the inheritance of ShivBaba. Brahma Baba left his body in 1969. How can those people, who have been joining the Brahmakumari Institution since 1969 call themselves Prajapita Brahma’s mouth-born progeny?
- Baba is telling that “Here you call only ‘one’ as Father-Teacher-Satguru.” Does it apply to the incorporeal point of light Shiv, or does it apply to the form when He enters into a corporeal body? The role of Father-Teacher-Satguru was not completed through Brahma Baba. Then where is that form of ShivBaba at present, which is Father-Teacher-Satguru?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 20 May 2008

Murli Pt.No.77 (BRAHMA LEFT EVERYTHING DUE TO DIVINE VISIONS ONLY)

"Tum bachhon nay toh swarg ka saakshaatkaar kiya hai toh vinaash ka bhi kiya hai. Baba ko bhi saakshatkaar hua tab toh choda parantu us samay itna gyaan nahee tha, jitna abhi hai. Raat-din ka farq hai gyaan may. Pehley toh bilkul hee raat may thay, sarvavyaapi ka gyaan detey thay, har yek manushya khud khudaa hai. Pehley-pehley yah paai-paisey ka gyaan tha, abhi samajhtey hain vah toh wrong tha." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 12.12.05, page 3)

“You children have had the divine visions of the heaven as well as the destruction. Baba also renounced only when he had divine visions, but there was not as much knowledge available at that time, as is available now. There is a difference of day and night between the knowledge (available at that time and available now). First we were in complete night (i.e. darkness of ignorance); we used to give the knowledge of omnipresence; every human being is Khuda (God) himself. First of all there was this knowledge worth paai -paise (the smallest unit of Indian currency soon after the independence of India); now we feel that it was wrong.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 12.12.05, page 3 published by BKs)
- It is mentioned in the Murlis repeatedly that there is neither knowledge and Yoga nor any benefit in divine visions. It proves that the soul which makes higher efforts without having had any divine visions is greater. So then Brahma Baba, who, as per the above Murli “renounced only when he had divine visions”, be the number one in the Brahmin family?
- It is told by the Brahmakumaris in respect of the soul of Krishna, i.e. Brahma Baba that he is the number one soul, while it is told about the soul of Ram that it failed. But in the path of worship Ram is said to be Patit-Paavan (purifier of the sinful) and Maryadas Purushottam (the one who becomes highest among all in following the code of conduct). It may be possible that in the beginning of the Yagya, the soul playing the role of Ram failed as “there was not as much knowledge available at that time, as is available now”. So can’t that soul take rebirth and enter the path of knowledge and become number one? Can the examination (or test) at the beginning of the Yagya be termed as the final examination (or test)?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 05 Jun 2008

Murli Pt.No.78 (GOD HAS COME)

• "Baba nay samjhaaya hai-yah tumhaara bahut oonch kul hai. Yah bhi samajhtey hain saari duniya ko paigaam jaroor milega. Jaisey kayee kahtey hain Bhagwaan jaroor kahaan aaya hua hai parantu pataa nahee padta hai. Aakhreen pataa toh lagega sabko. Akhbaaron may padta jayega. Abhi toh thoda daaltey hain. Aisey nahee ki ek akhbaar sab padhtey hain. Koi bilkul nahee padhtey. Yah sabko maaloom padnaa hee hai ki Baba aaya hua hai, vinaash ka samay nazdeek hoga toh maaloom padega. Nayee duniya kee sthaapana, puraani duniya ka vinaash hota hai. Ho saktaa hai bahuton ko saakshaatkaar bhi ho. Tumhey sanyaasiyon, rajaon aadi ko gyaan dena hai. Bahuton ko paigaam milnaa hai. Jab sunengey behad ka baap aaya hai, vahee sadgati deney vaala hai toh bahut aayengey. Abhi akhbaar may itnaa dilpasand kaaydeymujeeb niklaa nahee hai. Koi nikal padengey, poochtaach karengey." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 20.12.05, page 2)

• “Baba has explained-this is your very high race (clan). It is also felt that the entire world will certainly receive message. Just as many people say that God has certainly come somewhere, but one is not able to know. Ultimately everyone will come to know. It will keep getting published in newspapers. Now they publish very little. It is not true that everyone reads the same newspaper. They can read in the library. Some people read 2-4 newspapers also. Some people do not read any at all. Everyone will certainly know that Baba has come; when the time for destruction comes close, then they will come to know. Establishment of the new world, destruction of the old world takes place. It is possible that many people may have divine visions too. You must give knowledge to the Sanyasis (monks), Kings, etc. Many people will receive the message. When they will hear that the unlimited Father has come; He is the one to bestow true salvation (sadgati), then many will come. Now such desirable and proper articles have not been published in the newspapers. Some (media) persons will emerge, they will enquire.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 20.12.05, page 2 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling that in the end everyone will come to know that Baba has come, the unlimited Father has come. Brahmakumar-kumaris believe that BapDada enters into the body of Gulzar Dadiji only on certain days of the year and then departs. How can the people of the world say that ‘Baba has come’ for such a BapDada who comes and departs only on some days?
- Baba is telling that now such desirable and proper articles have not been published in the newspapers. One can know about the desirable articles of Baba only when He is present in a corporeal form Himself to check the articles, is it not?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 25 Jun 2008

Murli Pt. No.79 (Prajapita and newer points)

• "Vah Parampita toh Paramdhaam may rahtey hain. Prajapita Brahma Paramdhaam may nahee kahengey. Vah toh yahaan saakaari duniya may ho gayaa. Sookshmavatan may bhi nahee hain. Praja toh hai sthool vatan may…..Baap kahtey hain din-pratidin tumko guhya points samjhaatey rahtey hain. Aagey kee dher points tumhaarey paas rakhee hain. Vah abhee kya karengey. Aisey hee padee rahtee hain. Present toh BapDada nayee-nayee points samjhaatey rahtey hain. Aatma itnee choti see bindi hai, unmay saara part bharaa hua hai. Yah point koi aagey vaali copiyon may thodey hee hogi. Fir puraani points ko tum kya karengey. Pichaadi kee result hee kaam aati hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 29.12.05, page 2, 3 & 4)

• “That Supreme Father lives in the Soul World. Prajapita will not be said to be living in the Soul World. He belongs to the corporeal world here; he is not even in the Subtle Region. The subjects (i.e. Praja) are in the corporeal world…..Father says that day by day deeper points are being explained to you. A lot of points narrated in the past are available with you. What will you do with them now? They are lying just like that. At present BapDada keeps explaining newer points. Soul is such a small point. The entire part is recorded in it. This point will not be available in the earlier copies (i.e. note-books). Then what will you do with the old points? The result at the end only proves useful.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 29.12.05, page 2, 3 & 4 published by BKs)

- Brahmakumar-kumaris tell that Prajapita Brahma is in the Subtle Region since 1969. But Baba is telling that Prajapita Brahma is not in the Subtle Region but in the corporeal world. If Prajapita Brahma is in the corporeal world then where is he?
- Baba is telling that “at present BapDada keeps explaining newer points.” Until Brahma Baba was alive, ShivBaba used to explain newer and deeper points daily. But from 1969 till now, whatever Avyakt Vanis are being narrated through Gulzar Dadiji, do not contain anything new. The same points of dharana keep getting repeated. Then, where is BapDada explaining newer and deeper points at present?
- In respect of the soul of Ram, the BKs say that it failed in the beginning of the Yagya. But Baba is telling that “The result at the end only proves useful.” So can’t it be possible that the soul of Ram makes more efforts than the soul of Krishna at a later stage and achieves a higher post than him, leading to Ram being praised as Maryadas Purushottam (highest among all in following the code of conduct) and Patit-Paavan (purifier of the sinful)?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 14 Jul 2008

Murli Point No.80. DOING Yoga BY TAKING DRISHTI FROM HUMAN BEINGS

"Ab Baap samjhaatey hain-bachhey, aur sab baatien chod maamekam Yaad karo toh vikarma vinaash hongey. Aisey nahee koi saamney baith nishtha (Yoga) karaaye, drishti day. Baap toh kahtey hain chaltey-firtey Baap ko Yaad karnaa hai. Apnaa chart rakho-saarey din may kitna Yaad kiya? Saverey uth kitnaa samay Baap say baatein kee? Aaj Baba kee Yaad may baithey? Aisey-aisey apney say mehnat karnee hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 4.1.06, page 2 & 3)

“Now Father explains-Children, leave everything else and remember only me; then your sins will get destroyed. It is not necessary that someone should sit in front of you and enable you to do nishtha (Yoga), or give drishti. Father says one must remember Father while walking or moving. Keep your chart – how much time did I spend in remembrance? After waking up in the morning how much time did I talk to Father? Did I sit in Baba’s remembrance today? One must work hard with oneself like this.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 4.1.06, page 2 & 3 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that “It is not necessary that someone should sit in front of you and enable you to do nishtha (Yoga), or give drishti.” But it has been observed in all the BK centers that sisters/brothers sit on sandali and enable other BKs to do Yoga by giving them drishti during the daily classes. Is doing so in accordance with Shrimat?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 28 Jul 2008

Murli Point No.81.(WE ARE ALL BROTHERS)

"Toh abhi apney ko Bhai-Bhai samajhkar gyaan deney kee aadat daalnee hai. Fir yah jo gaaya jaata hai ki ‘we are all brothers’ – yah practical ho jaayega. Abhi tum sachhey-sachhey brothers ho kyunki Baap ko jaantey ho. Baap tum bachhon kay saath service kar rahey hain. Himmatey bachhey madadey baap. Toh Baap aa karkey yah himmat detey hain service karney kee." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 21.12.05, page 1)

“So now become habitual of giving knowledge by considering yourself to be brothers. Then the proverb of ‘we are all brothers’ – will become practical. Now you are true brothers because you know Father. Father is doing service with you children. If children display courage, then Father helps. So Father comes and gives us this courage to do service.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 21.12.05, page 1 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling, “The proverb of ‘we are all brothers’ – will become practical.” It has been observed that the members of Advance Party, i.e. PBKs are not allowed to enter the BK centers or as soon as any BK listens to the advance knowledge, he/she is banished from the BK centers like the Pandavas. If the process of banishment of BKs from the BK centers continues, then how will the situation of ‘we are all brothers’ become practical?
- Baba is telling that “Father is doing service with you children.” If it is true then where is Father doing service with children?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 09 Aug 2008

Murli Pt. No.82. - CREATOR OF BRAHMA ALSO
"Baap akshar toh barobar hai parantu yah Brahma bhi rachana hai na. Rachana ko rachata say varsa milta hai. Tumko bhi ShivBaba nay create kiya hai. Brahma ko bhi usnay create kiya hai. Varsa creator say milta hai, vah hai behad ka Baap. Brahma kay paas behad ka varsa hai kya? Baap in dwara baith samjhaatey hain inko bhi varsa milta hai. Aisey nahee ki varsa lekar tumko detey hain. Baap kahtey hain tum inko bhi Yaad na karo. Yah behad kay Baap say tumko property miltee hai…....Yah behad kee baadshaahi tumko unsay miltee hai. Vah hai badaa Baba……Baap tum bachhon say hee baat kartey hain. Aagey toh sabsey miltey thay, sabsey baat kartey thay. Abhi kartey-kartey aakhreen toh koi say baat hee nahee karengey. Son shows Father hai na." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 20.12.05, page 1-3)

“The word ‘Baap’, i.e. Father is correct, but this Brahma is also a creation, isn’t it? Creation gets inheritance from the Creator. You have also been created by ShivBaba. Brahma has also been created by Him. Inheritance is received from the Creator. He is an unlimited Father. Does Brahma possess an unlimited inheritance? Father sits and explains through him. He also receives inheritance. It is not that he obtains inheritance and then gives you. Father says – Do not remember even him. You receive this inheritance from the unlimited Father…..You receive this unlimited kingship from Him. He is the big Baba…....Father talks to you children only. Earlier Father used to meet everyone, and talk to everyone. Now slowly in the end Father will not talk to anyone. Son shows Father, isn’t it?” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 20.12.05, page 1-3 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling, “Brahma has also been created by Him” and that “You receive this unlimited kingship from Him. He is the big Baba.” Who is the creator of Brahma, i.e. the one, who gave knowledge to Brahma too? Who is the big Baba, about whom Baba is talking? ‘Incorporeal’ cannot create ‘corporeal’ directly. Then Father Shiv also must have entered into some other human body at the beginning of the Yagya to give knowledge to Brahma Baba, isn’t it?
- Baba is telling that “Now slowly in the end Father will not talk to anyone.” Brahma Baba used to meet all the children until he left his body and the number of children meeting Avyakt BapDada through Gulzar Dadi has also been on a rise every year. Then where does the above version apply? Is Father Shiv playing role through some other body, where this version could be applied?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 23 Aug 2008

Murli Pt.No.83 (INCORPOREAL REQUIRES CORPOREAL Chariot)

"Prajapita Brahma bhi jaroor yahaan hoga na. Prajapita toh manushya hai na. Praja jaroor yahaan hee rachee jaati hai.....Baap ko toh rath hai nahee. Vah niraakaar hee gaaya jaata hai. Na sookshma sharir hai, na sthool sharir hai. Niraakaar khud rath may jab baithey tab bol sakey. Rath bigar patiton ko paavan kaisey banaayengey? Baap kahtey hain mai niraakaar aakar inka loan leta hoon. Temporary loan liya hai, inko bhaagyashaali rath kahaa jaata hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 22.12.05, page 3)

“Prajapita Brahma will also definitely be here, isn’t it? Prajapita is a human being, isn’t it? Praja (subjects) are certainly created here only.....Father does not have a Chariot. He is praised as an incorporeal entity only. He has neither a subtle body nor a physical body. When the incorporeal (Father) himself sits in the Chariot, only then can He speak. Without a Chariot how can He purify the sinful ones? Father says, ‘I, an incorporeal being come and take the loan of his body.’ I have taken a temporary loan. He is called a lucky Chariot. ” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 22.12.05, page 3 published by BKs)

- Brahmakumar-kumaris say that since 1969 Prajapita Brahma is in the Subtle Region. But Baba is telling, “Prajapita Brahma will also definitely be here, isn’t it? If Prajapita Brahma is in a human form in this world itself, then where is he?
- Brahmakumar-kumaris say that since 1969 ShivBaba is in the Soul World. But Baba is telling, “When the incorporeal (Father) himself sits in the Chariot, only then can He speak. Without a Chariot how can He purify the sinful ones?” If ShivBaba is purifying the sinful ones in this world itself, then where is He?
- Baba is telling, “He is called a lucky Chariot.” Brahma Baba left his body long back in 1969. Then how can he be called a lucky Chariot?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 06 Sep 2008

Murli Pt. No.84 (COMING AND GOING OF Father)

"Yah BapDada dono hee combined hain na. ShivBaba gyaan detey hain fir chaley jaatey hain va kya hota hai, kaun bataaye. Baba say poochein kya aap sadaiv ho ya chaley jaatey ho? Baap say toh yah pooch nahee saktey hain na. Baap kahtey hain, mai tumko raasta bataata hoon patit say paavan honay ka. Aaun, jaaun, mujhey toh bahut kaam karney padtey hain. Bachhon kay paas bhi jaata hoon, unsay kaarya karaata hoon. Ismay sanshay kee koi baat na laaye. Apna kaam hai – Baap ko Yaad karnaa.....Bachhon ko pehley yah nishchay ho – Baba aaya hua hai, hamko paavan banaa rahey hain." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 23.12.05, page 3)

“This BapDada, both are combined, isn’t it? ShivBaba gives knowledge and then departs or what happens, who can say? If Baba is asked, ‘Do you remain (in this body) or do you go away? One cannot ask Father this question, isn’t it?’ Father says, ‘I show you the path to get transformed from a sinful one to a pure one. I may come; I may go; I have to do a lot of works. I also visit the children; I get work done through them. One should not raise any matter of doubt in this. Our job is to remember Father.....Children must first of all have the faith that Baba has come and is making us pure.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 23.12.05, page 3 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling, “If Baba is asked, ‘Do you remain (in this body) or do you go away?” This can be possible only when ShivBaba is practically present. If according to the above Murli point ShivBaba is showing us the path of purification in this world itself, then where is He?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 14 Sep 2008

Murli Pt. No.85. (METHOD OF OBTAINING KNOWLEDGE)

"Baap kitnaa achhi reeti samjhaatey hain. Gyaan bahut meetha hai. Ismay aankhein kholkar sun-na hota hai. Baap ko toh dekhengey na. Tum jaantey ho ShivBaba yahaan viraajmaan hai toh aankhein kholkar baithnaa chaahiye na. Behad kay Baap ko dekhnaa chaahiye na.....Baap samjhaatey rahtey hain ek-do ko dekhtey ho toh aisey samjho-ham Bhai (aatma) say baat kartey hain, Bhai ko samjhaatey hain. Tum Behad kay Baap kee raay nahee maanengey?" (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 27.12.05, page 2)

“Father explains so nicely. The knowledge is very sweet. In this one should listen while keeping the eyes open. You will look at the Father, isn’t it? You know that ShivBaba is present here; so you should sit with your eyes open, isn’t it? You should look at the unlimited Father, isn’t it?....Father keeps explaining that when you look at each other, then think – I am talking to my brother (soul), I am explaining to my brother. Will you not accept the advice of the unlimited Father?” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 27.12.05, page 2 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling, “You know that ShivBaba is present here; so you should sit with your eyes open, isn’t it? You should look at the unlimited Father, isn’t it?” This can be possible only when ShivBaba is practically present. If ShivBaba is present here, then where is He?

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