Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

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andrey
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Post by andrey » 14 Mar 2007

Dear brother,

We have 2 female Brahmas and one male. It is Trimurti.

One female Brahma (big mother) is Jagadamba (world mother), the first figure. Second figure of Vishnu can also be Brahma of highest order, Shiv may not enter but she is also big mother, world mother. She is little mother compared to Jagadamba but big compared to an ordinary Mother whom Baba (via Lekhraj Kirpalani, via Virendra Dev Dixit and Avyakt BapDada via Dadi Gulzar) have asked all to also develop an attitude of a world mother. Through the second figure practical acts are done, not speaking. 3rd figure of Shankar can be male Brahma (Prajapita Brahma), if there is entrance of Supreme Soul. In these three one of them is Jagadamba (the first one), one is Jagadpita (the 3rd one). Jagadpita is the same as Prajapita. Jagadamba is the same as Brahma.

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 15 Mar 2007

shivsena wrote:Honestly, I do not know my position; what I want to prove is that, the whole Godly knowledge was recited by ShivBap through Brahma in a poetic jumbled way from 1947 to 1969 and the only recordings of the Murlis we have are from june 1965 to jan 1969; and it is these Murlis which contain the whole knowledge in a coded form.
Well, thank you for that. I appreciate simple, straightforward honesty.

The problem that the rest of us have is that we do not have the jewel mine that you have, if you have an early edition of the complete set of Murlis. That is quite a treasure.

All PBKs have helped me hugely to see and understand the BKs, and the BKWSU. I respect their upfrontness that the Murlis are incomplete, ambiguous, incoherent and in places deeply metaphorical. Obviously I am not in a position to say that I share anyone's faith, as I have not had the privilege of experiencing Kampil, but at least I accept Virendra Dev Dixit as a supreme churner ... if not the current medium for the Supreme Soul. I would love him to be but I am too beated by my experience with the BKWSU, as seemingly he was, to want to try right now. I can understand why they would not want him around. But, as Andrey says, this stuff is of such a nature that one would not want to just give it all up.

It would be great if you could spend some energy putting the Murlis up somewhere in public, so that we could all follow the debate, such as over in the Encyclopedia where Aimee has started.

http://www.brahmakumaris.info/indexwdev.html

Personally, I am in two minds about it all. It could be code or it could just be garbage. We could just be dancing around for some spooks having a good laugh at us. And I am very embittered about the way that the inner circle of the BKWSU have treated the teachings, the history and the general public now over all this.

To that extent, rather than disputing the finer points of the Knowledge within a very small circle ... which in a sense has no constructive point, as at least you do not think that you are God or a medium ... I think that I would just work on creating a broad base of awareness of the knowledge, history and practises in the hope that you can change the pre-conditions within which the current consensus exists, e.g. involve more people, fresh minds, loosen or break the BKWSU up so it comes out with a few more of its secrets etc. In short, effect BapDada.

If we create enough of a stir over here, eventually they over there are going to go to Him and ask what is up ... what do we do? We may not be able to effect India but I think we can reach the Western English speaking world. All those high up Double Foriegners all use computers and the internet, so do their contacts, governmental contacts. They are not wanting to looking like spiritual fraudsters. I'd skip the PBKs, who really don't want to know and are happy on their level of faith, and aim elsewhere to find the fish's eye.

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shivsena
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Post by shivsena » 15 Mar 2007

Andrey wrote:We have 2 female Brahmas and one male. It is Trimurti.
That is great; first we had Trimurti Shiv; now we have Trimurti Brahma. i wonder what will be next!!!!
andrey wrote:One female Brahma (big mother) is Jagadamba (world mother), the first figure. Second figure of Vishnu can also be Brahma of highest order, Shiv may not enter but she is also big mother, world mother. She is little mother compared to Jagadamba but big compared to an ordinary Mother whom Baba (via Dada Lekhraj, via Veerendra Dev Dixit and Avyakt BapDada via Dadi Gulzar) have asked all to also develop an attitude of a world mother. Through the second figure practical acts are done, not speaking. 3rd figure of Shankar can be male Brahma (Prajapita Brahma), if there is entrance of Supreme Soul. In these three one of them is Jagadamba (the first one), one is Jagadpita (the 3rd one). Jagadpita is the same as Prajapita. Jagadamba is the same as Brahma.
Dear andrey Bhai.
Thanks for your clarification of Brahma; i am learning new definitions; i think you have made the topic of brahma more confusing than before and i am going to stick to Murli points of ShivBap and try to decipher the meaning myself.

BTW, have you written to Baba for confirmation of your views of Brahma;
shivsena.

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 15 Mar 2007

Shivsena wrote:Thanks for your clarification of Brahma; I am learning new definitions; I think you have made the topic of Brahma more confusing than before and I am going to stick to Murli points of ShivBap and try to decipher the meaning myself.
As far as I know ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) has given the clarification of the five heads of the Panchmukhi (five headed) Brahma as follows:
The Yagya pita (Father) and Yagya mata (mother) in the beginning of the Yagya, the same Yagya pita and Yagya mata in their next birth (i.e. the present birth) and Dada Lekhraj (Brahma) in between.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by andrey » 16 Mar 2007

Sakar Murli spoken by Father Shiva through Brahma Baba, published by the BKs, revised on 1.12.02

"I definetely need Brahma and also Prajapita Brahma whom i can enter and come here"

Indicates Brahma and Prajapita Brahma as separate.

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shivsena
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Post by shivsena » 16 Mar 2007

arjun wrote: As far as I know ShivBaba (through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) has given the clarification of the five heads of the Panchmukhi (five headed) Brahma as follows: The Yagya pita (Father) and Yagya mata (mother) in the beginning of the Yagya, the same Yagya pita and Yagya mata in their next birth (i.e. the present birth) and Dada Lekhraj (Brahma) in between.
Dear arjun Bhai.
Is there any Murli which has mentioned the word "panchamukhi brahma" any time; if you have the Murli then please write the date; ShivBaba will give clarification of only Murli points and not of the worldly scriptures; the clarification of "panchamukhi brahma" is another proof that this is coming from Krishna's soul who has the sanskars of 84 births and hence he is quoting the worldly scriptures; ShivBap has never read any of the worldly scriptures so how can he give its clarification.

There are many other flaws in the above clarification, about which i will write later in detail.

shivsena.

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 16 Mar 2007

Shivsena wrote:Is there any Murli which has mentioned the word "panchamukhi Brahma" any time; if you have the Murli then please write the date; ShivBaba will give clarification of only Murli points and not of the worldly scriptures; the clarification of "panchamukhi Brahma" is another proof that this is coming from Krishna's soul who has the sanskars of 84 births and hence he is quoting the worldly scriptures;
I am not aware if 'Panchamukhi' (five headed) Brahma has been mentioned anywhere in the Sakar Murlis narrated by Father Shiv through Brahma Baba or not, but that does not prohibit Him from giving clarifications about Panchmukhi Brahma. May be that clarification was not needed at the time of Brahma Baba or may be the intellect of Brahmin children was not developed to that level at that time. So He did not give the clarification of Panchmukhi Brahma at that time. But ShivBaba has said through Brahma Baba that newer points would keep emerging in the Murlis. Please read the following Murli point:

"Father says that day by day deeper points are being explained to you. A lot of points narrated in the past are available with you. What will you do with them now? They are lying just like that. At present BapDada keeps explaining newer points. Soul is such a small point. The entire part is recorded in it. This point will not be available in the earlier copies (i.e. note-books). Then what will you do with the old points? The result at the end only proves useful.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 29.12.05, page 2, 3 & 4 published by BKs, translated by a PBK)
ShivBap has never read any of the worldly scriptures so how can he give its clarification.
Should we also infer that since Father Shiv does not enter into the cyle of birth and death, so how can He give the knowledge of the 5000 years cycle, so He is not at all necessary for us?????
There are many other flaws in the above clarification, about which I will write later in detail.
Your views are welcome.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 16 Mar 2007

Discussion CD No.244 dated 19.1.07 at Tadepalligudem, Andhra Pradesh.

Kisi nay poocha: Purity say unity banti hai, aisey bataya, lekin Islam dharma may toh pavitrata nahee hoti hai na. Sabsey badaa mela Kaba may lagtaa hai, aisey bataaya...Sabsey badey tay badey mela Islamiyon ka lagta hai aisey bataaya...Voh unity hai na toh...bina pavitrata unity kaisey banee?

Baba nay uttar diya:
Aisey banti hai, voh toh chaar shaadiyaan karney tak hee unki impurity seemit hai. Aur Hindustaan may toh chori chipey jaaney kitney shaadiyaan kartey rahtey hain. Toh jyada patit kaun huay? Vahaan agar chaar shaadiyon kay alaava aur koi jyada shaadi karey ya bina talaq diye fir doosri shaadi kar ley toh jail may daal diya jaata hai. Kadak dand diya jaata hai Arab deshon may toh haath paanv bhi kaat diye jaatey hain. Toh jyada purity kahaan hai? Aur jyada vyabhichaar kahaan hai? Arab deshon may jyada vyabhichaar kahengey ya yuropeey deshon may, Christian deshon may jyada vyabhichaar kahengey ya Bharat may jyada vyabhichaar kahengey? Jyada chori chakari kahaan chalti hai? Bhaarat may.

Someone asked: It has been told that purity leads to unity, but there is no purity in Islam, is not it? It has been told that the biggest fair is organised at Kaba....It has been told that the biggest fair is organized by the Islamic people.....That constitutes a unity, is not it? So....how did the unity form without purity?

Baba replied:
It is formed in this way - their impurity is limited to getting married four times only. And in Hindustan (India) it is not known how many times people get married unofficially. So, who is more sinful? There, if anyone gets married more than four times or if anyone gets married without giving talaq then they are sent to jail. They are given strict punishment. In the Arab countries they even cut the arms and legs. So where is more purity? And where is more adultery? Will the adultery be said to be prevalent more in the Arab countries or in the Christian countries or in India? Where does more theft take place? In India.

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Note:- The Hindi and English versions of the extracts of above mentioned Discussion CD are just draft versions.

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 24 Mar 2007

Discussion CD No.244, dated 19.01.07 at Tadepalligudem

Kisi nay poocha: Samay, sambandhi, samparkiyon ko kaisey arpan kiya jaye?

Baba nay uttar diya:
Samay ko kaisey arpan kiya jaaye. Samay 24 ghantey Ishwariya seva may lagaa rahey. Raat ko sotey hain toh sotey samay bhi Baba kee Yaad may buddhi sotey sotey chalee jaaye ya Ishwariya seva kartey-kartey manan-chintan-manthan may buddhi chalee jaaye. Toh samay kahaan gayaa? Samay Ishwariya seva may gayaa na. Aur sambandhi. Sambandhiyon say jab bhi koi baat karein, toh aisi baat karein jo vay Ishwariya gyaan may interested ho jaaye. Apna tan, apnaa man, apnaa dhan, sab kahaan lagaaein? Iswariya seva may lagaayein. Aisi koi baat mukhh say na nikalney paaye, aisa koi vibration buddhi say na nikalney paaye jo unki buddhi Ishwariya gyaan say door jaati rahey, dehdhaariyon may raman kartee rahey. Yeh hua sambandhon ko arpan karnaa aur jo sampark may aaney vaaley hain, jinsay bhi rojmarrey kee baatcheet hoti hai, milnaa hota hai, toh unkay saath koi aisi baat na ho jo ki duniya may bhatkaaney vaali ho. Ishwariya gyaan may hee aakarshit karney kee baatein karnaa hai. Vibration aisey hee fenkataa hai. Unko sahyog deney kay liye joa bhi karma karein, voh apnee swaarthpoorti kay liye na karein. Ishwariya seva kay liye karein. Toh samparkiyon kee taakat lagaaney vaali baat ho gayi. Dhan – apnaa dhan toh Ishwariya seva may lagnaa he lagnaa hai jo apnee mutthi may hai, bank may hai kisi kay paas rakha hua hai. Lekin doosrey logon say jab milnaa julnaa ho toh unko bhi aisee hee baatein bataaein jis say unka dhan Ishwariya seva may safal ho. Unko samjhaana chahiye ki jitnaa bhi kamaaya hua hai lakh karod tumhaarey pait may sirf paavbhar hee jaayega. Rojmarrey pait kitna khaata hai? Ek paav aata khata hai aur baaki sab isee duniya may dharaa rah jaavega. Koi sambandhi nahee hai sharir chodney kay baad apnaa; sharer chodney ke baad aatma koi kay peechey nahee padtee; pataa nahee kahaan kee kahaan jaakar kay janma leti hai. Doosrey desh may doosri jaati may, doosrey-doosrey dharma may. Toh dhan ko bhi aakarshit karnaa hai Ishwariya seva may. Aur tan ko bhi Ishwariya seva may aakarshit karnaa. Jo apnaa tan Ishwariya seva may lagaataar lagaaye hongey voh doosron kee bhi aisi hee seva karengey. Pehley apney baal bachhon ko aakarshit karengey. Voh bhi apnaa tan hai apney pait say paida hua hai. Fir sambandhiyon kay tan ko aakarshit karengey.

Someone asked – how should one dedicate one’s time, relatives, contacts?

Baba replied:
how should one dedicate one’s time? The time should be spent in Godly service 24 hours. When one goes to sleep in the night, then, while sleeping also, the intellect should become busy in Baba’s remembrance or the intellect should become busy in thinking and churning while doing Godly service. So, where was the time invested? The time was invested in Godly service, isn’t it? And relatives. Whenever we speak to relatives then we should speak about such matters that they become interested in Godly knowledge. Where should one invest ones mind, ones wealth, everything? It should be invested in Godly service. Any such version should not emerge from the mouth, any such vibration should not emerge from the intellect, which causes their intellect to go astray from Godly knowledge, or their intellect remains busy in bodily beings. This is called dedicating the relationships and those who come in contact, those with whom we speak, meet daily, then we should not speak any such matter that makes them wander in the world. One must speak only such matters which attract them towards the Godly knowledge. One must spread such vibrations only. Whatever actions we perform to extend cooperation to them, should not be for fulfillment of our selfish desires. It should be done for Godly service. So that is a matter of investing the power of contacts. Wealth – One’s own wealth, which is in one’s hands, in the bank, or kept with someone else, is anyways going to be invested in Godly service, but, when one meets other people then one should speak about such matters only that their wealth becomes fruitful in Godly service. They should be explained that whatever lakhs and crores that you have earned, it is only 250 grams that enters the stomach. How much does the stomach eat daily? 250 grams of wheat flour. And everything else would be left in this world only. After one leaves one’s body there would not be any relative; after the soul leaves the body, it does not follow anyone. It is not known where it goes and takes birth - in another country, in another caste, in other religions. So, one must attract wealth also in Godly service. And the body should also be attracted in Godly service. Those who are continuously investing their body in Godly service, would serve others also in a similar way. First they would attract their children (in Godly service). They are also our body, born from our womb. Then they would attract the body of relatives (in Godly service).

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Note:- The Hindi and English versions of the extracts of above mentioned Discussion CD are just draft versions. The words added within brackets in the English version have been added by the Translator to make the meaning more clear.

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 25 Mar 2007

Disc.CD No.239, dated 9.1.07 at Tirupati, Andhra Pradesh

Ek mataji nay poocha: Man jad hai ya chaitanya hai?
Baba nay poocha:
Aatma?
Mataji nay kaha: Haan.
Baba nay uttar diya:
Aatma sharir may hai toh chaitanya hai.
Mataji nay poocha: Jad mana oopar say neechey kaisey aayega?
Baba:
Aatmaen oopar say neechey aati nahee. Koi bhi cheez hai, koi bhi cheez, yeh roomaal hai. Ye jad hai ki nahi? Ye roomaal jad hai? ki chaitanya hai?
Mataji nay kaha: Jad hai.
(Baba nay roomaal ko oopar say neechey gira diya)
Baba nay kaha:
Ye kya ho raha hai? Aakarshan hai. Kya? Srishti kay paanch tatwon may aakarshan hai. Aatma ko, paartdhari aatma ko rangmanch kheenchataa hai, apney time par, jab time hota hai, toh usay aana padtaa hai.

A mother asked: Is the mind non-living or living?
Baba asked:
Soul?
Mother said: Yes.
Baba said:
If the soul is present within a body it is living.
Mother asked: If it is non-living, then how does it come down from above?
Baba said:
The souls do not come down from above. Anything, anything, this is a handkerchief; is this non-living or not? Is this handkerchief non-living? Or is it living?
The mother said: It is non-living.
(Baba dropped the handkerchief from a height)
Baba said:
What is happening? It is attraction. What? There is attraction in the five elements of the nature. The stage pulls (i.e. attracts) the soul, the actor soul. When its time comes, when the time arrives, it has to come.

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Note:- The Hindi and English versions of the extracts of above mentioned Discussion CD are just draft versions.

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 26 Mar 2007

Disc.CD No.236, dated 11.1.07 at Koyalapalam

Kisi nay poocha: Mataji poochtey hain Mahabharat kay yuddh samay mein Abhimanyu nay chakravyuh kay andar chal nahee saktaa lekin voh jaanta hai andar jana, lekin baahar aana nahee jaanta. Iska arth abhi Sangamyug may kya hai?

Baba nay uttar diya:
Bahut see aatmaein hain – gyaan may chaltey-chaltey chal toh jaati hain. Yuddh bhi khoob kartee hain, fir yuddh kartey-kartey mrityu ko praapta hoti hain. Anishchaybuddhi ban jaatey hain. Anishchaybuddhi vinashyatey. Yuddh bhi bahut kartee hain.

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Someone asked: Mataji is asking that during the Mahabharata war Abhimanyu did not know how to enter the chakravyuh (a war formation). But he knows how to enter, but he does not know how to come out of it. What is its meaning now in the Confluence Age?

Baba replied:
There are many souls – they tread the path of knoweldge. They even fight very well. Then, they die while fighting. They become anishchaybuddhi (i.e. they lose faith). Anishchaybuddhi vinashyatey (those who lose faith get destroyed). They fight a lot.

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Note:- The Hindi and English versions of the extracts of above mentioned Discussion CD are just draft versions. The words added within brackets in the English version have been added by the Translator to make the meaning more clear. Since the above discussion CD has been recorded in a South Indian town, and the PBK asking the question in Hindi is not fluent in Hindi, the question in Hindi may appear to be incorrect from the language point of view and hence its English translation may also appear to be a little strange.

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 27 Mar 2007

Disc.CD No.229, dated 5.1.07 at Saatshankh, Orissa

Kisi nay poocha: Science vaalon ko aatma ka gyaan kaisey samjhaana jo unko Baap kay oopar nishchay baithey?

Baba nay uttar diya:
Ye Ishwariya gyaan aisa hai, ki har point of view say last may yah saabit ho jaavega ki Ishwariya gyaan hee sachha hai. Astrologer kahengey – yahee gyaan sachha hai. Jo scientists hain voh kahengey – nahee, yah Ishwariya gyaan hee sachha hai. Jo historians hain voh kahengey ye Ishwariya gyaan hee sachha hai. Har point of view say Ishwariya gyaan sachha saabit hoga.

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Someone asked: How should we explain the knowledge of soul to the scientific community so that they could develop faith on the Father?

Baba replied:
This Godly knowledge is such that at last (i.e. in the end) it would get proved from every point of view that the Godly knowledge alone is true. Astrologers would say that this knowledge alone is true. Those who are scientists would say – No, this Godly knowledge alone is true. Those who are historians would say that this Godly knowledge alone is true. The Godly knowledge would be proved to be true from every point of view.

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Note:- The Hindi and English versions of the extracts of above mentioned Discussion CD are just draft versions. The words added within brackets in the English version have been added by the Translator to make the meaning more clear.

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Post by arjun » 02 Apr 2007

Disc.CD No.233, dated 9.1.07 at Arakonam

Kisi nay poocha: Baba, Ram hee Ravan banta hai, Krishna hee Kans banta hai, iska matlab kya hai?

Baba nay kaha:
Ram pehley janma may Ravan banta hai kya? Hm? Krishna pehley janma may Kans banta hai kya? Satopradhaan stage may Ram Ravan, Krishna Kans bantey hain ya taamsi stage ka jo aakhri janma hai, uskay bhi ant may, Ravan aur Kans ka roop dhaaran kartey hain? Kab dhaaran kartey hongey? (Kisi nay kuch kaha) Haan, saari duniya may asuron kee sankhya jab bahut badh jaati hai. Jo Baap kay bachhey hain voh bhi asur ban jaatey hain. Jaisey abhi Murli may bola bahut tang karengey toh vinaash karaa doonga. Ek-do-chaar bachhey tang karein, toh bhi koi baat nahee, aur saarey kay saarey hee tang karna shuru kar dein toh saarey hee tamopradhaan ho gaye na. Un tamopradhaanon ko fir thikaaney kaisey lagaaya jaayega? Seedhi ungli ghee may daal doh toh ghee nahee niklega. Tedhi karengey toh niklega. Lohey say loha katataa hai, vish say vish maara jaata hai. Toh jab vinaash ka danka bajta hai toh sudhar jaatey hain. Bhaaratvaasi bhi aisey sudharney vaaley nahee hain. Kya? Marshall Law lagaa aur fat say sudhaar hona shuru ho jaayega.

Bachhey jo hain voh bachhon jaisi shakti hai, bachhon may Maa-baap jitnee shakti aa sakti hai kya? Nahee aayegi. Baap baap hota hai. Boltey bhi hain bachhey tumhara baap aaya hua hai. Maana bachhey utney vikaari nahee ban saktey hain jitnaa baap vikaari ban sakta hai. Bachhey utney nirvikaari bhi nahee ban saktey jitnaa Baap nirvikaari banta hai. Ever pure kee stage practical may is sansaar may part bajaa karke tab sansaar may pratyakshata hoti hai. Toh, taamsi say taamsi stage usay isliye dhaaran karee padtee hai ki bachhey jo hain voh atee nahee la saktey. Is duniya ka ant kab hoga? Jab atee hogi toh ant hoga. Aur bachhon may itnee taakat nahee hai jo vikaaron kee atee laa sakein. Toh atee toh laanaa padey. Isliye Ram ko Ravan ban-na padtaa hai. Aakhri janma kay bhi last charan may, jab sab aatmaen oopar say neechey utari hui hoti hain. Aur sab satopradhan say kya ban jaati hain? Tamopradhan ban jaati hain. Tab atee laaney kay liye ant karnaa padey. Aisey nahee ki pehley janma say hee ya madhya kay janmon say hee voh aisa part bajaata hai. (Kisi nay kuch kaha) Nahee, voh toh shreshth aatmaen hain. Jo aur bi unko follow karney vaaley bachhey hain voh bhi antim janma tak unko sahyog detey hain sachhai may, voh taamsi stage kaisey dhaaran karengey?

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Someone asked: Baba, what is meant by ‘Ram becomes Ravan’ and ‘Krishna becomes Kansa’?
Baba said:
Does Ram become Ravan in the first birth? Hm? Does Krishna become Kansa in the first birth? Does Ram become Ravan and Krishna become Kansa in the satopradhan (pure) stage or do they assume the form of Ravan and Kans in the last leg of the last birth of taamsi (degraded) stage? (Someone said something) Yes, when the number of demons increases very much in the entire world. The children of the Father also become demons. For example, just now it has been said in the Murli that if you trouble a lot, then I would cause destruction. If one, two or four children cause trouble, then it is not a big issue, and if all the children start troubling, then all of them are proved to be tamopradhan, aren’t they? How would those tamopradhan souls be fixed? If you put the straight finger in the ghee, then you would not be able to extract ghee. If you make it a little curved then you would be able to extract ghee. Iron is cut with the help of iron, poison is killed (i.e. removed) through poison. So when the bugle of destruction is played, then they get reformed. Indians (Bhaaratvasis) are also not going to get reformed easily. What? When the Marshall Law gets imposed then the reformation (sudhaar) would begin immediately.

Children possess children-like power. Can children acquire parents-like power? They would not. Father is Father. It is even said - children your Father has come. It means that the children cannot become as much vicious as the Father can. Children cannot become as much viceless as the Father becomes viceless. He gets revealed in the world after playing a practical part of ever pure stage in the world. So, he has to attain the most taamsi (degraded) stage only because the children cannot bring about the extremity (atee). When will the end of this world come about? When the extreme stage is reached, then the end would come. And children do not have the power to bring about the extremity of vices. So, extremity has to be brought about. That is why Ram has to become Ravan. In the last stage of the last birth, when all the souls have descended from above and what does everyone get transformed from a satopradhan stage to? They become tamopradhaan. Then, in order to bring about the extremity, the end has to be brought about. It is not that he plays such a part from the first birth itself or from the births of the middle period. (Someone said something) No; they are the righteous souls. Even the other children, who follow them, extend cooperation to them in truth till the last birth; so, how can they assume a degraded stage?


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Note:- The Hindi and English versions of the extracts of above mentioned Discussion CD are just draft versions. The words added within brackets in the English version have been added by the Translator to make the meaning more clear.

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 06 Apr 2007

Disc.CD No.227, dated 31.12.06 at Adhyatmik Krishi Farm

Ek bachhey nay poocha: Baba, Ram-vali aatma kee mata gyaan may aa sakti hai?
Baba nay kaha
: Gyaan may aa sakti hai ki aa gayi hogi? Ram-vaali aatma kee mata janma deney vali shareeer ko, jis shareeer say itnaa badaa purushaarth karke Narayan ban jaata hai vishwa ka maalik, us mata kee bhi toh visheshata hui na. Aisa shareeer roopi dhanush diya, jis dhanush say purushaarth karke saarey vishwa ko jeet liya, toh mata koi saadhaaran hogi kya?

A child asked: Baba can the mother of the soul of Ram enter the path of knowledge?
Baba replied:
Can it come or has it already come? The mother of the soul of Ram gives birth to the body; the body, through which, he makes such great efforts and becomes Narayan, the master of the world; so there is a specialty in that mother also, isn’t it? She gave him such a body-like bow, with which he made efforts and gained victory over the entire world. So will that mother be an ordinary mother?

Kisi bachhey nay poocha: Asht dev kee sahyogi shaktiyan Dharmaraj ki sajaaen khaati hain kya?
Baba nay uttar diya
: Jo Asht dev hain voh Dharmaraj ki sajaaen nahee khaatey.

A child asked: Will the cooperative shaktis of the eight deities suffer the punishments of Dharmaraj?
Baba replied:
The eight deities (Asht Dev) would not suffer the punishments of Dharmaraj.

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Note:- The Hindi and English versions of the extracts of above mentioned Discussion CD are just draft versions.

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aimée
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(late) answer to Shivsena

Post by aimée » 07 Apr 2007

Shivsena Bhai,

sorry it took so long to answer to your post, I did give a long answer, but then my computer failed me again, and all what I wrote was lost.

I said: what we will find in the clarification is personal, and also the direct answers given by Baba (in Virendra Dev Dixit) will also be interpreted in a personal way. It does not mean what he says is personal, but the way we interprets what he says is personal. See for example your interpretation of the Murli and mine are totally different, but we are looking at the same source, aren’t we? According to our sanskars, the influence of one or various religion in us, we will have different views, and then accordingly, we do the shooting for the broad drama.
This is also why this knowledge is so deep, everyone is free to get what they want from it, pearls or dirt, and everyone will see ShivBaba in a different way, not accurately; as Baba says, no one recognises me as I truly am. Our study is to be able to get as near as possible, the nearest to him would be the Suryavanshi.

As it is said in the Murli, the knowledge is so vast that if the sea were to be changed into ink and all the forests into pens, it would not be enough to write it all. This is for me why it is so wonderful, because then the whole world is created this way, with a variety. Baba puts the treasure of knowledge on a plate, and it is up to us what we pick and how much we pick and how we eat and digest it ...

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