Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 10 Dec 2009

Disc.CD-410, dated 1.10.07 at Hyderabad - 1

Time: 18.48
Student: Baba, how does the phrase “yatha raja tatha praja” (as the king so are the subjects) apply in the Golden Confluence Age (swarnim Sangamyug)?

Baba: This is about the intellect. What? When the intellect becomes satopradhan (consisting mainly in the quality of goodness and purity) it neither takes sorrow nor gives sorrow. Does the world of sorrow remain or not? The world of sorrow does exist, but the soul does not take sorrow and it does not give sorrow to others either. For that the human beings have also written in the Gita, “Yasman no dwijate loko, lokan no dwijate cha yah” (meaning) the one who becomes soul conscious does not become agitated by anyone. Even if someone wants to excite him, he does not become excited. And he does not speak any such word, [he] does not perform any such action which agitates others or creates any disturbance either. He does not pass through the up and down stage of becoming sorrowful and becoming happy. The one who is always in a uniform stage is called aatmanishth (soul conscious), swarupnishth (one who is focussed on his form). The one who becomes constant in swasthiti (the stage of the self). The perfect stage is such that it is called (the stage of attaining) liberation in life. Life does exist, but it is free from sorrow and pain.

Time: 28.18
Student: The Father has come to show the mercy of increasing sins in the sins [being committed by the children]. What does it mean?

Baba: Do the children become more sinful souls and nobler souls or does the Father of the human world become the most sinful and the noblest soul? Who becomes so? The Father is [indeed] the Father and children are [of course] children. Children will act like children and the Father will act like a Father.

So, the world is undergoing downfall. Do the children have power to cause more downfall of the world or does the Father have more power to cause downfall? When will the sinful world become pure? Will it become pure after becoming completely sinful or will it become pure after becoming incompletely sinful? So, you will not be able to take it to the pit of downfall speedily and the Father takes it to the pit of downfall speedily so that the children will not have to suffer more sorrow. Otherwise, they will keep calling for help repeatedly (trahi-trahi) for a longer time during (the period of) destruction. This is why the Father has come to show the mercy of increasing sins in the sins [being committed]. The Father feels pity (thinking) how long will they continue to suffer?

Even among the Jains; just as Hindus believe there are four Ages, Jains believe there are six Aareys of the world. One Kalpa among the six Kalpas ( cycle) in the Jains is called Sanatkumar Kalpa. It has been shown in it that they (those belonging to the Sanatkumar Kalpa) have the power to suffer excessive sorrow and the power to enjoy excessive happiness as well. Brahma created the world and the first religion that he established...., based on whose name was the religion established? Based on the name of Sanat Kumar who is the eldest son, the first son of Brahma, it has been named Sanat Kumar Kalpa. The name Sanatan Dharma (the Ancient Deity religion) is given on the basis of (the name) SanatKumar. For example, the Christian religion is named on the basis of Christ, Shaiv (community) is named on the basis of Shiv, Vaishnavites are named on the basis of Vishnu. He (Sanatkumar) is the seed-form soul of the world; he is the most powerful one. Just as Vrikshapati, Brihaspati (Jupiter) is the biggest planet among the nine planets. If all the planets (except Jupiter) were placed together and if Brihaspati (Jupiter) was put on one side, whose weight will be more? Jupiter’s weight will be more.

Time: 34.12
Baba: (A question has been asked on a piece of paper.) It is said that destruction takes place through Shankar. It is said that establishment takes place through Brahma. Does the task of destruction take place through purity or through impurity? Destruction takes place through impurity. And establishment takes place through purity. The destruction that is said to take place through Shankar, does it take place through the perfect form in reality? Does destruction take place through the perfect form or through an incomplete form? (Everyone said – through the incomplete form.) This is why, if the half-moon is removed from it, then he is not called Shankar at all. Prajapita will not be called Shankar.

Time: 53.40
Baba: (A question has been asked on piece of paper.) The question is , in 2018, Krishna takes birth through the Confluence Age Lakshmi-Narayan.

(Answer-) And if the person who has asked this question is asked whether the Golden Age Krishna takes birth or the Confluence Age Krishna takes birth? Tell, brother. Which Krishna has been mentioned in this (slip)?
Student: The Golden Age Krishna.
Baba: Does the Golden Age Krishna take birth in the Confluence Age? Arey! Until the Confluence Age continues, will the sinful world exist or not?
Student: It will exist.
Baba: So, how will pure bodies appear in corporeal form? Arey! There is not a single pure person in the sinful world and there will not be a single sinful person in the pure world. Will the five elements of anyone become pure in 2018 or will the intellect become pure? The intellect of the intellectuals is the Father Shiv; so does He make the intellect pure when He comes or does He make the five elements of the nature pure? He makes the intellect pure through the knowledge. And the one whom He enters is the Father made up of the five elements. Who? Prajapita. So, when the one who is made of five elements makes the five elements of his body pure through the power of the connection of intellect, he will give birth to the Krishna with a satopradhan body made up of pure five elements. And until the five elements of this world are tamopradhan (dominated by the quality of darkness or ignorance), satopradhan children like Radha and Krishna cannot take birth. So, this question is wrong. The person who is supposed to reply is not replying whether it is about the Confluence Age Krishna or the Golden Age Krishna?
Student: Those people feel that the Golden Age Krishna will take birth.Baba: What is meant by ‘those people’?
Student: The one who has raised the question.
Baba: Those Brahmakumaris feel that Radha and Krishna will take birth in Nepal. OK, who all feel that the Confluence Age Krishna or Golden Age Krishna will take birth in 2018? Raise your hands.
Student: Baba, you have given the reply, haven’t you?
Baba: Although it has been told ....(concluded)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 11 Dec 2009

Disc.CD No.432, dated 4th November, 2007 at Dental Billa

Time: 20.19 to 21.25
Student: Baba, who is the symbol of woman in Ardhanareeshwar (half male and half female depicted by one half of Shankar and another half of Parvati in the path of devotion)? Is it the junior mother (choti Mama)?

Baba: Who played the part of a woman? Who played the part of a woman?
Student: Brahma Baba played the part of a woman.
Baba: Brahma Baba played the part. So, Brahma Baba’s soul enters (in Shankar) and plays the part and is giving sustenance. The Father has his own part to play; so, it is Ardhanareeshwar, isn’t it?
Student: Baba, I had heard in one of the discussion cassettes that the (female part in the) Ardhanareeshwar refers to the soul of Sita.
Baba: So, you all are number wise Sitas. You all are Sitas. Ram is one. So, who is the one and who is number one among all of them? It has been said ‘you all’; so, in that ‘you all’ who is the number one Sita? (Someone said – Brahma.) That is all. All the souls play the part of Sitas. And the Father’s practical part is Ram’s part.

Time: 21.26-22.18
Student: Baba, for example, (it has been said in an Avyakt Vani that) ‘backbone BapDada is with you’, so, the Father Ram and the Father Shiv must be included in backbone BapDada.

Baba: The Father Ram does not hold any value until the Father Shiv is present (in him). If there is the Father Shiv, there is the Father Ram. If the Father Shiv is not present (in him) nobody can recognize the Father Ram either. He cannot be revealed at all. Student: OK, the Father Ram and Brahma are not praised as backbone BapDada. Is it for the Father Ram and the Father Shiv ?
Baba: When we say ‘Baap’(the Father), the intellect should think of the one who does not have any Father. Prajapita has a Father too, but Shiv does not have any Father.

Time: 22.30-24.30
Student: Baba, do the seed-form souls ever become ghosts and spirits in the unlimited drama?

Baba: Will those who commit sins not become ghosts and spirits? Do those who belong to the other religions believe in deities or in subtle bodied souls? They believe in subtle bodied souls. They consider the power of the subtle bodied souls alone to be very great. For example, a story of Allah Avvaldeen has been shown. So, Jinnaat alone has been considered to be everything in that. The souls who commit more sins, they do so because they have not understood the knowledge completely and those who have understood the knowledge completely are Suryavanshi (those belonging to the Sun dynasty) children; they cannot commit sins because they recognize the Father completely. So, why will they assume a subtle body? Will they become complete or will they remain in the bondage of the subtle body? They will become complete.
Student – Baba, I was talking about the seed-form souls that....
Baba: The seed-form souls are also of different kinds. Some are seeds of Islam , some are seeds of the Moon Dynasty (Chandravansh). Some are seeds of the Christian religion. Some are seeds of the Sun Dynasty. So, will the seeds of other religions be covered by the peels of other religions or of the Sun Dynasty? Certainly they will be covered by the peels of other religions. So, will they become perfect first or will they become perfect later on? They will become perfect later on.
Student: Baba, I didn’t talk about the Confluence Age. I talked about the entire unlimited drama; for example it starts since the Golden Age and continues up to the Iron Age; do they ever become ghosts and spirits in that period?
Baba: You were told, weren’t you? When the seeds of the other religions, the seeds of the other religions, become influenced by the other religions; so becoming influenced means becoming their subjects. Only then will they commit sins. Not before that.

Time: 38.51-39.43
Student: Baba, for example, we organize ‘gathering’ (sangathan) every month at the Gitapathshala and if a new mother comes or if a (new) brother comes, then should we take their sign (in the attendance register)?

Baba: Whoever comes, you should certainly take everybody’s signature in the entry register. Whether a new one comes or an old one comes; if a new one comes and does something wrong and goes away; if an old student comes and if Maya enters in him and he does something wrong and goes away, whom will you catch? You should strictly follow the directions that Baba has given. Whichever new person comes, you should at least make him/her write the name and address. (Someone said – Baba, many such persons feel afraid to write it.) If there is any ill-feeling in their mind they will fear.

Time: 42.57-43.14
Student: Baba, do the subtle bodied souls take drishti from the Father?

Baba: Otherwise, how will they be uplifted? Do they not achieve true salvation? When they [have to] achieve true salvation, they will also take drishti (from the Father).

Time: 43.15-43.53
Student: Baba, many times people say about the ghosts and spirits , ‘I heard a voice, I heard a voice.’

Baba: As far as emergence of sounds and seeing (ghosts) through the eyes is concerned, only those people see them on whom they (i.e. ghosts) can ride (i.e. enter).
Student: Baba, I mean that the subtle bodied souls cannot create sounds?
Baba: They hear those sounds, but you or others will not be able to hear it. So, some become influenced by that to such a great extent that the ghost of fear emerges. In the same way, they also hear voices (that emerges due to fear). (Someone said – Baba, is it due to weakness?) Is it not a weakness to be influenced?

Time: 44.00-45.45
Student: Baba, in the Murlis that are being narrated to the BKs, it has often been heard, it is mentioned in those Murlis , ‘BapDada says so’; the Father does not go there at all, then why is the word ‘BapDada’ used?

Baba: Do those human beings say so or does the Murli say so?
Student: It has been mentioned in the Murlis only , ‘BapDada says’, hasn’t it?
Baba: It is an Avyakt Vani, isn’t it? It is not a Murli. Avyakt Vani will not be called Murli. In case of an Avyakt Vani, when the soul of Brahma enters in Gulzar Dadi, that Avyakt (unmanifest) soul is working; does the soul of Gulzar Dadi vanish or does it remain in the manifest form? [Dadi] Gulzar, in whom he enters, (the soul of) that bodily being vanishes, becomes Avyakt; that is why it is an Avyakt Vani. When Shiv used to enter in Brahma Baba, Brahma’s soul did not use to become Avyakt; that is why it is a vyakt Vani (manifest versions). It is a Sakar Vani (corporeal versions).
Student: Brahma Baba speaks in it (Avyakt Vani); so, why does Brahma Baba use the word BapDada?
Baba: Hum? It is said BapDada because when Brahma enters, at that time the entire crowd is sitting in front of him. When the crowd is sitting, that soul pays special attention to itself. It remains in the special remembrance of the Father. (It is said in the Murli) The more you remember Me, the more I am with you. This is why it is said BapDada. (Someone said - Baba, many times Brahma Baba tells about BapDada only.) Yes, the BapDada that he speaks about is the one who plays a practical part. He, who stays in a subtle stage (of thinking and churning), is BapDada in practical.

Time: 45.47-46.53
Student: Baba, for example we address virgins as sisters or old ones as mothers. When the senior mother or the junior mother comes, how will we address her?

Baba: Badi ma (senior mother), choti ma (junior mother).
Student: How will we address them?
Baba: Arey, are there not a senior mother and a junior mother in a family? Is there not a grandmother? When there is a junior and a senior Father, the junior Father and the senior Father; fathers are also two. Junior Baba and senior Baba. The bodily being is called Baba. So, who is junior Baba and who is senior Baba? Arey, Brahma Baba is the junior Baba and ShivBaba is the senior Baba. (Someone said – Baba, it has been said in Murli , when we utter the word Baba, there will certainly be a name.) Yes. When there is a Baba, He (Shiv) will definitely enter a bodily being, will He not? He will enter a corporeal one, it means the corporeal person has a name. (concluded)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 12 Dec 2009

Disc.CD-447, dated 21.11.2007 at Sehore

Time: 0.26-3.23
Student: Baba, what will be the fate of the souls which indulge in lust after coming in advance (knowledge)?

Baba: Is it something to be asked about? Has the Father come to take us to the path of lust or to make us vice less?
Student: The Father has come to make us vice less.
Baba: Yes, so, if someone acts against the direction of the Father, will he go down or will he rise? (Someone said – He will go down.) What is meant by going down? (Someone said – the post will be degraded.) What is meant by the degradation of post? Will he shift from a higher chair to a lower chair? Are there any chairs, placed one above the other, one above the other? What post will be degraded?
Student: He will not be able to achieve the goal given to us by Baba to transform directly from a man to Narayan.
Baba: Will he not become Narayan? OK, what if he does not become Narayan, and becomes the child of Narayan? Arey, if he does not become a world emperor (vishwa maharajan), if he becomes the child of a world emperor, is it a less achievement? Did you not understand? Which soul actually becomes the son of the world emperor? Brahma Baba. Even if someone performs actions like Brahma Baba it is very good. What? The glory of Brahma alias the soul of Krishna is not less than the glory of the soul of Ram. Degradation of post means they become souls who convert to other religions. They will fall into other lower religions. And the lower the religion in which they fall, the lower will be their religious inculcations. They will follow the proverb ‘as the king so shall be the subjects’.
Student: So, then can’t that soul make more special effort for the soul (purusharth) after that?
Baba: He can make special effort for the soul from the time when he makes a determination, when he makes a resolution, when he repents. It depends on the determination of every individual, but what can be done? Whatever has already been fixed is being enacted. But if we create good thoughts, it will result in good. We should think that we performed the shooting of downfall for a few births out of the 63 births. Later on we renounced the bad company (kusang). We kept righteous company. Our life reformed. So, it can reform even now.

Time: 6.54-9.15
Student: Baba, a translight face; Baba said just now in the Murli , the faces of you children will become like a translight. So, Baba, will the faces of four and a half lakh (450 thousand) souls become (like translight) or the faces of 108 or of 16108 or of 8?

Baba: Translight means like a mirror. The faces should appear like a mirror. Just by seeing someone’s face it should mirror the stage of our soul [i.e.] we should be able to see (our stage in the mirror) and we should also come to know the greatness of the person whose face we are seeing. For example Baba says, Madhuban is a palace of mirrors (sheeshmahal). It is a palace of mirrors. Just like in a mirror it becomes clear as to who is our own and who is an alien, similarly it becomes clear just by visiting Madhuban. , . And the Father is the greatest mirror (aarsi). Nobody’s purusharth (special effort for the soul) can remain hidden before the Father, however much one may try to show-off. Who is the best purusharthi (maker of special effort for the soul) and who is a bad purusharthi will be revealed. Similarly, the faces of translight which will become ready will be of those souls who will survive destruction by their body and soul.
Student: So, four and a half lakh souls become such ones (with face like translight), don’t they?
Baba: Do the faces of four and a half lakh souls become like translight? Are the seeds of other religions not included among four and a half lakhs? Are the seeds of other religion covered by a hard peel or by a soft peel? (Someone said – hard.) Will that be removed in the very beginning or will it be removed in the end, i.e. by the year (20)36? It will be removed in the end. So, when the peel will be removed in the end, then for how long will they become translight? (Someone said: for a short period) If they become translight for a short period, then they will reveal themselves for the people belonging to the poor quality religions. They will not be revealed before the entire world.

Time: 10.48-11.45
Student: Baba, it has been asked in the Murlis , who taught the big kings and emperors to rule? The Father taught them, but those who have become kings nowadays, like Shivraj Singh, Manmohan Singh, who taught them to rule?

Baba: Who all?
Student: Now, in the present time.
Baba: Are there kings in the present time? Or do they become kings today and after two to five years they are made to step down and beaten with shoes? Is this kingship or a crown of thorns? Or is it robbery? Do they mostly become kings or do they become dacoits and sit? (Someone said – they are dacoits.) So, do you want to obtain a false kingship? Where does your intellect wander? Baba has said that even if you receive the post of a President, you will spit at it (reject it). You should feel so intoxicated.

Time: 24.34-26.17
Student: Baba, the souls of Ram and Krishna take 84 births; so how can we know the names of their 84 births? If we wish to find out the 84 names of the souls of Ram and Krishna, how can we find out?

Baba: Go on adding the Murli points, you will go on finding the names. For example, it has been said in the Murli , people have written their own stories in the scriptures. What? In the scriptures, the writers of the scriptures have written their own stories in the scriptures. It means , who has written Soorsagar (a book)? Soorsagar contains the story of Krishna. Who wrote it? The soul of Brahma. (Thus) one birth (of the soul of Krishna) has become clear as Surdas, hasn’t it? Ram wrote Ramayana (a mythological book). Valimiki wrote it (Ramayana) in the Copper Age and Tulsidas wrote it in the Iron Age. So, these two births of Ram become clear, that he becomes Valmiki in the Copper Age and Tulsidas in the Iron Age, don’t they?

There are numerous such sentences in the Murlis. When a deep research is made on them, all the issues will become clear. And on the basis of those souls, the parts of their followers will also become clear, who are the ones close to them. The more you add jaggery (sweet), the sweeter it will be. The more you invest your body, your mind, your wealth, your time, [and] your power of thoughts in the service of God, the more the remembrance of the Father will become firm to that extent.

Time: 26.27-28.14
Student: Baba, when the bead of the rosary of victory (Vijaymala), the queen bee emerges, a lot of bees will follow her; so, will they do bhatti, Baba?

Baba: Why not?
Student: So Baba, when they undergo bhatti, will they become the children of the Rudramala(the rosary of Rudra)?
Baba: The beads of Rudramala will be added to the Vijaymala. The beads of the Rudramalawill be threaded into the Vijaymala. For example, in the old tradition, the virgins used to choose a king (to marry). They used to put garland around his (the selected king’s) neck. So, it is as if the garland will be put around the neck of the beads of Rudramalanumber wise. The beads of the Rudramala will be threaded into the Vijaymala and they (beads of Rudramala) will go on becoming vice less.
Student: So, will the bhatti of (the souls of the) Rudramalaand (the souls of the) Vijaymala go on simultaneously?
Baba: Bhatti? Does bhattitake place once or again and again?
Student: Yes, it takes place once. So, will the bhatti of (the souls of the) Vijaymalatake place only after the bhatti of (all those of the) Rudramala?
Baba: Do the beads of Rudramalabecome ready first or do the beads of Vijaymala become ready first?
Student: The beads of Rudramala become ready first.
Baba: When the beads of Rudramalahave become ready, their bhattiis over. When the Vijaymalabecomes ready, they will also obtain the advance knowledge; their bhattiwill also be organized.
Student: Baba, totally how many people will do bhatti?
Baba: How big will be the Rudramala? [Someone said – 2.25 lakhs (225 thousand)]. So, how big will be the Vijaymala? (Someone said – 2.25 lakhs.) Then what is the need to ask? (Someone said – will nobody do bhatti after that?) There will not be any time to do bhatti at all. Everything will be over.

Time: 28.20-28.30
Student: Baba, why do souls feel sleepy when the Murli is being narrated?

Baba: They might have performed such (negative) tasks; they might have created obstacles in a spiritual gathering (sangathan). (Concluded)...........................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 22 Dec 2009

वार्तालाप नं.462, कलकत्ता, दिनांक 11.12.07

समयः 17.42-19.04
जिज्ञासुः कृष्ण, के हाथ में जो मुरली दिखाया वो माउंट आबू में 18 साल उनके मुख से जो मुरली चला उसका यादगार के रूप में दिखाया क्या?

बाबा: 18 साल?
जिज्ञासु: 18 साल जो मुरली चला उनके मुख से तो उसका यादगार रूप है क्या?
बाबा: भक्तिमार्ग में?
जिज्ञासु: हाँ।
बाबा: भक्तिमार्ग में जो दिखाते हैं, कृष्ण ने मुरली सुनाई। तो मुरली जड़ बांस की समझते हैं या कोई ज्ञान की मुरली है?
जिज्ञासु: ज्ञान की।
बाबा: समझने वाले क्या समझते हैं? जड़ बांस की मुरली है। अभी भी हम समझते हैं कि वो मुरली जड़ है या समझ में आने वाली है? जड़ मुरली हो गयी। सुनना, सुनाना भक्तिमार्ग में होता है और ज्ञानमार्ग में समझना और समझाना होता है। कनरस हो गया। ज्ञानमार्ग में कनरस नहीं होता है। समझ का रस होता है। तो शूटिंग खराब थोड़े ही हुई। शूटिंग सही हुई या गलत हुई? सही शूटिंग हुई।

समयः 19.06-32.20
जिज्ञासुः बाबा जो 5000 वर्ष का ड्रामा में ब्रह्मा बाबा का पार्ट 50 वर्ष कम है तो सिर्फ 2018 में कृष्ण का पार्ट होगा जब संगमयुगी ल.ना. प्रत्यक्ष हो जायेंगे, लेकिन बाबा उनका तो बॉडी (शरीर) नहीं है। पार्ट तो साकार में बजाना पड़े ना।

बाबा: शरीर सिर्फ स्थूल ही नहीं होता है। तुम भूल गये। शरीर सिर्फ स्थूल ही होता है या सूक्ष्म भी होता है? सूक्ष्म भी शरीर होता है स्थूल भी होता है। उन्होंने दोनों प्रकार का शरीर सन् 87-88 में छोड़ा है। नहीं समझ में आया? (किसी ने कुछ कहा।) हाँ, तो उसमें 50 साल जोड़ो। (किसी ने कुछ कहा।) हाँ। तो कितना आया?
जिज्ञासु: 36 बाबा: 36-37 आया।
जिज्ञासु: गुल्‍जार दादी में प्रवेश करते हैं तो सूक्ष्म शरीर लेके जाते हैं?

बाबा: क्यों नहीं जाते हैं और क्या बीज रूपी स्टेज रहती है?
जिज्ञासु: आपने बोला छोड़ दिया दोनों प्रकार का शरीर 87 में।
बाबा: जैसे छोटा बच्चा होता है। भले जन्म भी ले लेता है लेकिन शैशवावस्था में कभी बच्चा अपने आप हंसता है। कोई उसको हंसाता नहीं है, हंसाने की बात भी नहीं करता, कोई लड्डू पेड़ा मूँह में नहीं देता। हंसता है। कभी रोता है। तो वो सूक्ष्म शरीर उसका पार्ट बजा रहा है या स्थूल शरीर पार्ट बजा रहा है? सूक्ष्म शरीर पार्ट बजा रहा है। भले कृष्ण की आत्मा है। अभी भी उसका बचपन ज्यादा है। कोई बच्चे होते हैं बहुत बड़े हो जाते हैं लेकिन अक्ल से कैसे रहते हैं? बुद्धू के बुद्धू रहते हैं। जब तक यज्ञोपवित न हो जाये तब तक क्या समझते हैं? ब्राह्मण, पक्का ज्ञानी ब्राह्मण नहीं है। बच्चा बुद्धि है। तो कृष्ण की आत्मा का भी यज्ञोपवित कब होगा? पहला जन्म तो लिया 98 में लेकिन वो कच्चा ब्राह्मण है। पक्का ब्राह्मण कब होगा? जब यज्ञोपवित हो। तीन सूत्रों का पूरा ज्ञान बुद्धि में बैठ जाये। अभी क़ृष्ण की आत्मा ये मानने के लिये तैयार है कि गीता का भगवान बाप कौन है? पढ़ने वाले मुख्य-मुख्य बच्चे कौन हैं? विष्णु की चार भुजायें कौन-कौन हैं? कौन लेफ्टिस्ट भुजायें हैं कौन राइटियस भुजायें हैं? कौन उपर की भुजायें हैं, कौन नीचे की भुजायें हैं? ये बात सब कृष्ण की आत्मा मानने के लिये तैयार है? अरे! एड्वांस पार्टी के बच्चों में ही मतभेद है अभी।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा कृष्ण की आत्मा तो अभी बाप के अन्दर प्रवेश करके हर समय सुनते रहती हैं।
बाबा: हर समय सुनती है? फिर गुल्जार दादी में कौन पार्ट बजाता है? वो वहाँ आप जाते हैं शायद।
जिज्ञासु: वो तो हर महीने में 2 बार जाते हैं।
बाबा: और बच्चे नहीं है उनको प्रवेश करने के लिये?
जिज्ञासु: लेकिन बाबा वो इतना पावरफुल होते हुए भी क्यो नहीं मानते?
बाबा: कितना पावरफुल? तुम्हारे बुद्धि में बहुत पावरफुल भरा हुआ है। प्रभाव पड़ गया। क्या? एडवांस पार्टी के बीज रूप आत्माओं के मुकाबले कृष्ण बच्चे की आत्मा बहुत पावरफुल है।
जिज्ञासु: कृष्ण बच्चा तो भावनावादी है।
बाबा: हाँ तो पावरफुल है ना? जिज्ञासु: पावरफुल नहीं है। कमजोर है।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, जो पावरफुल बीज है वो 1969 में जब दादा लेखराज शरीर छोड़ दिया था और प्रवेश किया राम वाली आत्मा में तब राम वाली आत्मा का जो बॉडी है ... ।
बाबा: दादा लेखराज की आत्मा ने राम वाली आत्मा में प्रवेश कर लिया इसका क्या प्रूफ है 69 में? 69 में प्रवेश कर लिया इसका कोई प्रूफ है?
जिज्ञासु: यदि एक घर चला जाते हैं तो नैचरली शिव और कृष्ण वाली आत्मा बाहर तो नहीं रहेगा घर में ही तो प्रवेश करेगा और जो परमनेंट (स्‍थायी) घर है तो घर में तो जरूर प्रवेश करेगा।
बाबा: घर एक ही है या बहुत से बच्चे हैं प्रवेश करने के लिये?
जिज्ञासु: घर तो बहुत है लेकिन पर्मनेंट एड्रेस तो एक है। जैसे हम लोग कभी कभी बाहर जाते हैं... ।
बाबा: जिसे हम पर्मनेंट समझते हैं वो परमधाम बाद में पता चलता है या पहले ही पता चल जाता है? अंतिम जन्म में ही तो पता चलता है। सन् 76 में आकरके उनको ठिकाना मिलता है। तब चन्द्रमाँ विराजमान होता है अधूरा। दिखाई पड़ता है। उससे पहले नहीं कहेंगे कि बाप प्रत्यक्ष हुआ, जिसके मस्तक पर चन्द्रमाँ विराजमान है।

Disc.CD No.462, dated 11.12.07

Time: 17.42-19.04
Student: Is the flute shown in the hands of Krishna a memorial of the Murlis that were narrated through him (i.e. the soul of Krishna) for 18 years at Mount Abu?

Baba: 18 years?
Student: Is it a memorial of the Murlis that were narrated through his mouth for 18 years?
Baba: In the path of devotion (Bhaktimarg)?
Student: Yes.
Baba: It is shown in the path of devotion that Krishna played a flute. So, do they think about the non-living bamboo flute or is it a flute of knowledge?
Student: Of knowledge.
Baba: What do the people think? It is a non-living flute of bamboo. Even now do we feel that it is a non-living Murli or is it something that can be understood? It is a non-living Murli. Listening and narrating takes place in the path of devotion and understanding and explaining takes place in the path of knowledge. It was a pleasure for the ears. There is no pleasure for the ears in the path of knowledge. There is the pleasure of understanding. So, the shooting was not bad. Was the shooting right or wrong? It was a right shooting.

Time: 19.06-32.20
Student: Baba, Brahma Baba’s part is reduced by 50 years in the 5000 years drama; so, the part of Krishna will be in 2018 when the Confluence Age Lakshmi and Narayan are revealed. But Baba, he does not have a body. Part has to be played in a corporeal form, isn’t it?

Baba: Body is not just physical. You have forgotten. Is a body just physical or also subtle? There is a subtle as well as a physical body. He left both kinds of bodies in the year 87-88 . Did you not understand? (Someone said something.) Yes, so, add 50 years to it. (Someone said something.) Yes. So, how much does it come to?
Student: 36.
Baba: It comes to (20)36-37.
Student: When he enters in Gulzar Dadi, why does he enter with a subtle body?
Baba: Why not? He certainly goes (there in a subtle stage) or does he remain in a seed-form stage?
Student: You said that he left both kinds of bodies in 87.
Baba: For example, a small child; although he takes birth, but in the infant stage sometimes the child laughs on his own. Nobody makes him laugh, nobody says anything to make him laugh either, nobody puts laddu-peda (sweets) in his mouth. (But) he laughs. Sometimes he cries (on his own). So, is his subtle body playing a part or is the physical body playing a part? The subtle body is playing a part. Although it is the soul of Krishna, even now there is a lot of childishness in him. There are some children who grow very big, but how do they remain through their intellect? They remain fools. Until they undergo the thread ceremony (yagyopavit), what do they think? He is not a Brahmin, a firm knowledgeable Brahmin (until he has undergone the thread ceremony). He has a child-like intellect. So, when will the soul of Krishna undergo the thread ceremony? He took the first birth in (19)98, but that is a (stage of) an immature Brahmin. When will he become a firm Brahmin? When he undergoes the thread ceremony. The entire knowledge of the three threads should fit into the intellect. Is the soul of Krishna now ready to accept , who is God the Father of the Gita, ? Who are the main children who are studying? Which are the four main arms of Vishnu ? Which are the leftist arms and which are the righteous arms? Which are the upper arms and which are the lower arms? Is the soul of Krishna ready to accept all these things? Arey! There is a difference of opinion among the children of Advance Party themselves.
Student: Baba, the soul of Krishna enters the Father and keeps listening all the time.
Baba: Does he listen all the time? Then who plays the part in Gulzar Dadi? Perhaps you go there.
Student: He goes there twice every month.
Baba: Are there not other children for him to enter?
Student: But Baba despite being so powerful, why does he not accept?
Baba: How powerful? Your intellect is under the impression that he is very powerful. You are influenced. What? (You think that) When compared to the seed-form souls of the Advance Party, the soul of child Krishna is very powerful.
Student: Child Krishna is emotional (bhavnaavadi).
Baba: Yes, so, he is powerful, isn’t he?
Student: He is not powerful. He is weak.
Student: Baba, the powerful seed…......., Dada Lekhraj left his body in 1969 and entered in the soul of Ram, the body of the soul of Ram....
Baba: What is the proof of the soul of Dada Lekhraj having entered the soul of Ram in (19)69? Is there any proof of his having entered in 69?
Student: When one home has finished, then, naturally, Shiv and the soul of Krishna will not remain outside; he will enter the home only and he will certainly enter the home which is the permanent home.
Baba: Is there only one home or are there many children (for him) to enter?
Student: There are many homes, but the permanent address is one. For example, sometimes when we go outside....
Baba: The one whom we think to be permanent, do people come to know of that Paramdham later on or do they come to know of it beforehand? It is known only in the last birth. He finds the destination in the year 76. Then the incomplete moon becomes seated (on the forehead of Shankar). He becomes visible. Before that it will not be said that the Father on whose forehead the Moon is seated, was revealed............................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 23 Dec 2009

वार्तालाप नं.462, कलकत्ता, दिनांक 11.12.07

जिज्ञासु: यदि प्रवेश करते हैं, ऐसा एक सी.डी में बोला जब प्रवेश किया तब ये जो बॉडी है शिव और राम कृष्ण को समर्पण कर दिया क्यों..।
बाबा: वो राम वाली आत्मा की भावना है। राम वाली आत्मा भी या कृष्ण वाली आत्मा भी जन्म-जन्मांतर एक-दूसरे के बच्चे बन सकते हैं या नहीं बन सकते हैं? जन्म-जन्मांतर एक-दूसरे के बाप बन सकते हैं या नहीं बन सकते हैं? तो शूटींग पीरीयड में भी बनते हैं। कभी मैं तेरा बाप कभी तू मेरा बाप।
जिज्ञासु: समर्पण कर दिया... ।
बाबा: तो समर्पण कब कर दिया? जब बच्चा बना तब समर्पण कर दिया? राम वाली आत्मा ने समर्पण कब कर दिया? अज्ञान काल में या ज्ञान काल में? (किसी ने कुछ कहा।) नहीं। क्या उसने बाप को पहचान लिया था 69 में? राम वाली आत्मा 69 में बाप को पहचानती थी? नहीं।
जिज्ञासु: 72 के एक अव्यक्त वाणी में बोला: कि एडवांस पार्टी का कार्य चल रहा है। 73 में बोला, 2/8/73 में। तो एडवांस पार्टी का जो भी कार्य चल रहा है... ।
बाबा: तो वो बात भी पहले कौन जानेगा?
जिज्ञासु: राम वाली आत्मा।
बाबा: राम वाली आत्मा ही तो जानेगी। कृष्ण वाली आत्मा तो नहीं जानेगी।
जिज्ञासु: राम वाली आत्मा के जानने के बाद तो कृष्ण को समर्पण कर दिया बॉडी।
बाबा: उस समय नहीं समर्पण कर दिया। समर्पण बुद्धि श्रेष्ठ आत्मा वो होती है जो ज्ञान में एक सेकण्ड में आ जाये। अभी-अभी सुना और अभी-अभी आ गया और समर्पित हो गया। तुरंत दान महा कल्याण होता है या लम्बे समय तक सोचते रहे, सोचते रहे और सोच-सोच करके सरंडर किया वो ज्यादा श्रेष्ठ होता है?
(किसी ने कहा – तुरंत दान।)
जिज्ञासु: तो बाबा, समर्पण कब किया कृष्ण वाली आत्मा को?
बाबा: राम वाली आत्मा जैसे ही ज्ञान में आयेगी, समझेगी ये शिव का ज्ञान है तो श्रेष्ठ आत्मा तुरंत समर्पण हो जायेगी या देर करेगी?
जिज्ञासु: तुरंत।
बाबा: हाँ जी। 76 में क्यों? जब से बेसिक नॉलेज में है तबसे समर्पित नहीं है? उससे ज्यादा कोई पुरुषार्थी है क्या? (किसी ने कुछ कहा।) हाँ तो क्या हुआ?
जिज्ञासु: तो तब तो ज्ञान में आ गया तब तो समझ में आ गया ना?
बाबा: हाँ समझ में आ जायेगा तो समर्पित नहीं होगा?
जिज्ञासु: लेकिन बॉडी को कृष्ण को समर्पित कर दिया कब?
बाबा: ओहो! तन, मन, धन सब तेरा किसको करेगा?
जिज्ञासु: शिव बाबा को।
बाबा: हाँ शिव बाबा को; किसको समझता था 69 में?
जिज्ञासु: ब्रह्मा को।
बाबा: ब्रह्मा को।
जिज्ञासु: तो ब्रह्मा को समर्पण कर दिया।
बाबा: ब्रह्मा को.. जिसको साकार भगवान समझेगा, गीता का भगवान जिसको समझेगा उसी को करेगा या दूसरे को करेगा?
जिज्ञासु: तो जब समर्पण कर दिया उनको तो उन्होंने जो बेबी बुद्धि आत्मा जो ब्रह्मा है कृष्ण की सोल तब से सब यज्ञ चल रहे हैं?
बाबा: तो यज्ञ नहीं चल रहा है? यज्ञ नहीं चल रहा है? यज्ञ असली तब चलता है जब बाप आकरके ज्ञान यज्ञ की बात समझाते हैं। ज्ञान को यज्ञ कहा जाता है। दीवालों को यज्ञ नहीं कहा जाता, हुजूम को यज्ञ नहीं कहा जाता।
जिज्ञासु: ज्ञान यज्ञ तो 76 से ...
बाबा: हाँ जी, जब अपनी पहचान हो जाये और अपने बाप की पहचान हो जाये तब कहेंगे ज्ञान यज्ञ।
जिज्ञासु: तो तब से जब शुरु कर दिया और कृष्ण वाली आत्मा को समर्पण कर दिया...
बाबा: अरे तो वो भक्तिमार्ग हुआ या ज्ञानमार्ग हुआ? 69 में जब ज्ञान मार्ग में बेसिक में आयी राम वाली आत्मा तो वो भक्तिमार्ग शुरु किया या ज्ञानमार्ग किया? भक्तिमार्ग है। भक्तिमार्ग में जो जितना आगे जायेगा, जितनी भक्ति करेगा जितनी अव्यभिचारी भक्ति करेगा उतना ज्यादा ज्ञान उठायेगा।
जिज्ञासु: तो मेरा कहने का मतलब है 76 में जो राम वाली आत्मा ज्ञानमार्ग में आयी और जब समर्पण कर दिया...
बाबा: फिर वही 76 में समर्पित कर दिया। 69 से क्यों नहीं समर्पित कर दिया? (किसी ने कुछ कहा।) हाँ तो वही तो कह रहे हैं।
जिज्ञासु: 69 में जब समर्पण कर दिया तो कृष्ण वाली आत्मा को तो समर्पण कर दिया बॉडी पूरा।
बाबा: अरे! भक्तिमार्ग में किसको, गुरुओं को नहीं समर्पित किया जाता है, किसको समर्पित किया जाता है? और जो अव्वल नम्बर गुरु को समर्पित कर दिया , तो और अच्छी बात हुई या खराब बात हुई? (किसी ने कुछ कहा।) फिर तुम यज्ञ समझते ही नहीं। समझने-समझाने को यज्ञ कहा जाता है या सुनने-सुनाने को यज्ञ कहा जाता है? 69 में सुनना-सुनाना हो रहा था या समझना-समझाना हो रहा था?
किसीने कहा: माउन्ट आबू के संगठन के बारे में बोल रहे हैं।
बाबा: वही माउंट आबू का संगठन... कम्पिल के यज्ञ के बारे में नहीं बता रहे हैं।
जिज्ञासु: राम वाली आत्मा के अन्दर में जब पूरा ज्ञान बैठ गया तब ज्ञान यज्ञ शुरू हुआ?
बाबा: ज्ञान यज्ञ कहेंगे। समझने और समझाने वाली बात का फाउंडेशन पड़ जाये। मैं आत्मा कौन और मेरा बाप कौन? तो कहेंगे ज्ञान यज्ञ का फाउंडेशन पड़ गया।
जिज्ञासु: अविनाशी रुद्र ज्ञान यज्ञ - ये कब से स्टार्ट हो गया?
बाबा: जब से बाप आता है तब से अविनाशी ज्ञान यज्ञ होता है। इसका नाम ही है रुद्र ज्ञान यज्ञ। रुद्र प्रत्यक्ष कब से हुआ? रुद्र माने क्या होता है? रौद्र रूप धारण करना। किसके लिये रौद्र रूप? दुनिया वालों के लिये रौद्र रूप धारण किया या बेसिक नॉलेज वालों के लिये रौद्र रूप धारण किया? बेसिक नॉलेज के ब्राह्मणों ने जान लिया - अरे, ये तो बड़ा विप्लव हो गया। ये तो सारा चक्कर ही उल्टा हो गया। दुनिया पलट गयी। हाँ, रविन्द्र भाई सात दिन का कोर्स लेके तुरंत दौड़े -2 गये माउंट आबू में दादी के पास “दादी जी प्रलय हो गई, कुछ करो।” जगदीश भाई के पास भेज दिया दादी ने।
जिज्ञासु: रौद्र रूप किसका होगा?
बाबा: रुद्र का।
जिज्ञासु: शंकर का?
बाबा: रुद्र का। ज्ञान यज्ञ का नाम क्या है? रुद्र... शंकर ज्ञान यज्ञ कहा जाता है या रुद्र ज्ञान यज्ञ कहा जाता है? शंकर का काम शंकर करे तो संघारकारी कहा जाये। काम किया? नहीं। लेकिन रौद्र रूप किसने धारण किया? सन् 76 में ब्राह्मणों की दुनिया के अन्दर रौद्र रूप अनुभव हुआ कि नहीं ब्राह्मणों को? हुआ। तो रुद्र हो गया। (किसी ने कुछ कहा।) शिव ही साकार में प्रवेश करता है तो रुद्र कहा जाता है। शिव का नाम बिन्दी का नाम है। वो नाम कभी बदलता नहीं । जब शरीर बदलते हैं तो नाम बदल जाता है। तो रुद्र नाम कब पड़ा? जब शरीर बदल करके रौद्र रूप धारण किया। तो रुद्र ज्ञान यज्ञ नाम पड़ा।

Disc.CD No.462, dated 11.12.07

Student: It has been said in a CD that when He enters, when He entered, Shiv and Ram surrendered this body to Krishna. Why?
Baba: That is a feeling of the soul of Ram. Can the soul of Ram and the soul of Krishna become each other’s child for many births or not? Can they become each other’s Father for many births or not? So, they become in the shooting period also. Sometimes I am your Father and sometimes you are my Father.
Student: He surrendered....
Baba: When did he surrender? Did he surrender when he became a child? When did the soul of Ram surrender (his body)? Was it during the period of ignorance or in the period of knowledge? (Someone said something.) No. Had he recognized the Father in 1969? Did the soul of Ram recognize the Father in 1969? No.
Student: It has been said in an Avyakt Vani of (the year) (19)72 that the task of the Advance Party is going on. It was told in 73, in (the Avyakt Vani dated) 2.8.73. So, whatever task of the Advance Party is going on....
Baba: So, who will know about that first?
Student: The soul of Ram.
Baba: Only the soul of Ram will know. The soul of Krishna will not know.
Student: So, after the soul of Ram came to know, he surrendered (his body) to Krishna.
Baba: He did not surrender at that time. A soul which enters the path of knowledge in a second is considered to be a righteous soul with a surrendered intellect. As soon as it hears, it enters the path of knowledge and surrenders. Is it considered very beneficial if someone donates immediately (on getting a thought) or is it more righteous if someone surrenders after thinking for a long time? (Someone said: immediate donation.)
Student: So, Baba, when did he surrender (his body) to the soul of Krishna?
Baba: As soon as the soul of Ram enters the path of knowledge, as soon as it understands this is the knowledge given by Shiv, then will a righteous soul surrender immediately or will it delay?
Student: Immediately.
Baba: Yes. Why in 76? Is he not surrendered ever since he has been following the basic knowledge? Is there someone who makes more special effort for the soul (purusharth) than him? (Someone said something) Yes, so what happened?
Student: So, at that time he entered the path of knowledge; he understood, did he not?
Baba: Yes, when he understands, will he not surrender?
Student: But when did he surrender his body to Krishna?
Baba: Oho! Whom will he surrender his body, mind and wealth?
Student: To ShivBaba.
Baba: Yes, to ShivBaba. Whom did he consider ShivBaba in 69?
Student: Brahma.
Baba: Brahma.
Student: So, he surrendered to Brahma.
Baba: To Brahma....Will he surrender to the one whom he considers as corporeal God, as the God of the Gita or to anyone else?
Student: So, when he surrendered to him, then the Yagya is being run by the soul with a baby-like intellect, i.e. Brahma, the soul of Krishna?
Baba: So, is the Yagya not functioning? Is the Yagya not working? The Yagya functions in a true sense when the Father comes and explains the issue of the Gyan Yagya (Yagya of knowledge). Knowledge is called Yagya. (A structure made of) walls is not called Yagya; a crowd is not called Yagya.
Student: Gyan Yagya has started from 76....
Baba: Yes, when someone recognizes himself and recognizes his Father, then it will be said to be Gyan Yagya.

Student: So, ever since it was started and till the time when he surrendered to the soul of Krishna....

Baba: Arey, so was it a path of devotion (Bhaktimarg) or a path of knowledge? When the soul of Ram entered the path of basic knowledge in 69, did he start the path of Bhakti or the path of knowledge? It was a path of Bhakti. The more someone progresses in the path of Bhakti, the more Bhakti someone performs, the more someone performs unadulterous Bhakti, the more he will grasp knowledge
Student: So, I mean to say that the soul of Ram which entered the path of knowledge in 76 and when he surrendered....
Baba: You are again saying the same thing that he surrendered in 76. Why not that he surrendered since 69 ? (Someone said something.) Yes, that is what I am saying.
Student: When he surrendered in 69, he surrendered his entire body to the soul of Krishna.
Baba: Arey! In the path of devotion, if not to the gurus then to whom do people surrender (themselves)? And if he surrendered to the number one guru, is it a good thing or a bad thing? (Someone said something.) Then you don’t understand the meaning of Yagya at all. Does Yagya mean ‘understanding and explaining’ or does Yagya mean ‘listening and narrating’? Was ‘listening and narrating’ taking place in 69 or was ‘understanding and explaining’ taking place?
Someone said – He is speaking about the gathering at Mount Abu.
Baba: Yes, the gathering at Mount Abu.... I am not talking about the Yagya of knowledge at Kampil.

Student: Did the Gyan Yagya begin when the entire knowledge fitted in the soul of Ram?

Baba: It will be called Gyan Yagya. The foundation of ‘understanding and explaining’ should be laid. (When he understands) ‘which soul am I and who is my Father?’ It will then be said that the foundation of Gyan Yagya was laid.

Student: Since when did this imperishable Rudra Gyan Yagya (the Yagya of the knowledge of Rudra) start?

Baba: The imperishable Gyan Yagya begins ever since the Father comes. Its very name is Rudra Gyan Yagya. Since when was Rudra revealed? What is meant by Rudra? (It means) assuming a fierce (raudra) form. Fierce form for whom? Did he assume a fierce form for the people of the world or for those who follow the basic knowledge? The Brahmins who were following the basic knowledge came to know , Arey, a big revolution has taken place. The entire cycle has turned upside down. The world has turned upside down. Yes, immediately after taking the seven days course Ravindra Bhai ran to meet Dadi at Mount Abu saying ‘Dadiji, a disaster has taken place; do something.” Dadi sent him to Jagdish Bhai.

Student: Who will assume a fierce form (raudra roop)?
Baba: Rudra.

Student: Shankar?

Baba: Rudra. What is the name of the Gyan Yagya? Rudra....Is it called Shankar Gyan Yagya or Rudra Gyan Yagya? If Shankar performs Shankar’s task, he will be called a destroyer. Did he perform the task? No. But who assumed the fierce (raudra) form? Did the Brahmins experience the fierce form within the world of Brahmins in the year 76 or not? They did. So, he happened to be Rudra. (Someone said something.) When Shiv Himself enters the corporeal one He is called Rudra. The name Shiv is the name of a point (i.e. soul). That name never changes. The name changes when the bodies change. So, when did he receive the name Rudra? It is when He changed the body and assumed a fierce form. Then the name Rudra Gyan Yagya was given.............(to be continued)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 25 Dec 2009

वार्तालाप नं.462, कलकत्ता, दिनांक 11.12.07

समयः 40.40 - 43.10
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, चन्द्रमाँ प्रशान्त महासागर में मिल गया, तब दिन ही दिन होगा।

बाबा: हाँ, चन्द्रमाँ जो है वो प्रशांत महासागर में एक हो जाये। क्या? जो पृथ्वी का टुकडा़ है वो टुकडा़ माता के गर्भ में चला जाये। एक हो जाये।
जिज्ञासु: क्लीयर नहीं हुआ बाबा।
बाबा: क्यों नहीं क्लीयर हुआ? ज्ञान चन्द्रमाँ आत्मा है और ज्ञान चन्द्रमाँ स्थूल शरीर भी है। तो कृष्ण की आत्मा का स्थूल शरीर कब होगा? सतयुग में होगा। और आत्मा सम्पन्न कब होगी? संगम में होगी। तो संगम में ब्राह्मणों की दुनिया में जो कृष्ण वाली आत्मा है, एकाकार हो जायेगी विष्णु के साथ या विष्णु की चार भुजाओं के साथ। क्या? एकाकार हो जायेगी माना पृथ्वी अलग नहीं है और चन्द्रमाँ अलग नहीं है। ये बुद्धि से समझने की बात है। स्थूल में ऐसा नहीं होगा।
जिज्ञासु: माना स्थूल चन्द्रमाँ पृथ्वी पर नहीं आयेगा, ऐसा ही है?
बाबा: जब टोटल स्थूल में विनाश होगा तो स्थूल चन्द्रमाँ स्थूल पृथ्वी में आ जायेगा।
जिज्ञासु: प्रशांत महासागर समतल भूमि हो जायेगा?
बाबा: हाँ जी। समतल भूमि नहीं हो जायेगा। समन्दर हो जायेगा।
जिज्ञासु: अभी तो समन्दर ही है ना?
बाबा: समन्दर है लेकिन इतना गहरा है कि उसकी थाह कोई ले नहीं सकता। उस चंद्रमाँ में भी बहुत गहरे-गहरे गड्ढे हैं।
जिज्ञासु: माना सी लेवल (sea level – समुद्र स्‍तर) बहुत ऊंचा हो जायेगा।
बाबा: हाँ। लेवल उंचा हो जायेगा माना उथला हो जायेगा। लेकिन ये नहीं कि जमीन हो जायेगी।

समयः 43.11 - 47.30
जिज्ञासुः बाबा अभी जो नया-नया आत्मायें ज्ञान सुन रहे हैं और बाप के प्रति निश्चयबुद्धि बैठ रहे हैं, तो उनको याद क्या परमधाम में, सूक्ष्म परमधाम में वहां सिखाना है या कि बाबा का जो भृकुटि है उसमें सिखाना है?

बाबा: ये तो जैसी जिसकी धारणा होती है वो वैसे ही सिखाता है। चोर की चोरी की धारणा होगी तो चोरी करना ही सिखायेगा। और साहू की साहूपने की धारणा होगी तो साहूकार बनना ही सिखायेगा।
जिज्ञासु: सत्य क्या हुआ?
बाबा: हर आत्मा के लिये सत्य अलग-अलग है। इब्राहिम की आत्मा के लिये सत्य जो है वो नारायण वाली आत्मा के लिए सत्य नहीं है।
जिज्ञासु: लेकिन शिवबाबा इस क्वेशन का क्या सत्य आंसर (जवाब) देगा?
बाबा: बता दिया ना। हर आत्मा के लिये सत्य अलग-अलग है। (किसी ने कुछ कहा।) नहीं। निश्चय बुद्धि के अनुसार।
जिज्ञासु: लेकिन उसका जब तक कोर्स पूरा नहीं होता है एड्वांस का तब तक वो साकार बाबा को देखते नहीं है इसलिये हम पूछ रहे हैं तब तक वो बिन्दु को याद करते रहेंगे या साकार में याद करेंगे?
बाबा: साकार बाबा को ज्ञान की आँख से देखा जाता है या स्थूल आँखों से देखा जाता है? ऐसी-ऐसी बान्धेली मातायें हैं जो कई-कई साल हो गये और उन्होंने स्थूल आँखों से बाबा को देखा ही नहीं और उनके लेटर्स पढो़ तो ऐसा लगेगा की आहा हा हा हा ! इतना निश्चय बुद्धि तो और कोई हो ही नहीं सकता।
जिज्ञासु: ऐसा बोला कि दो महीना चिट्ठी न आये तो वो बच्चा मर गया।
बाबा: चिट्ठी ना आये? चिट्ठी क्यों नहीं आती? चिट्ठी की ही तो बात कर रहे हैं। भट्ठी ना भी हो तो भी उनकी चिट्ठी आयेगी, तो भी उनके फोन आयेंगे।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, पर सम्मुख तो नहीं आ सकते ना।
बाबा: इन मुख की आँखों से देखने में आता है भगवान या ज्ञान की आँख से देखने में आता है?
जिज्ञासु: ज्ञान की आँख।
बाबा: तो ज्ञान की आँख दूर बैठे भी निश्चय कर सकती है। क्या गांधी जी को सबने देखा है? फिर गांधी जी हुए या नहीं हुए? गांधी जी याद आता है या नहीं आता है? आता है।
जिज्ञासु: तो सी. डी में जो बाबा का जो चित्र दिखाके उसको याद सिखायेंगे, हें?
बाबा: ये पढा़ई पढ़ने का और पढा़ई पढा़ने का, बाप समान बनने का और आप समान बनाने का हरेक का लक्ष्य अपना-अपना है। जो जिस लक्ष्य को प्राप्त करने का लक्ष्य ले लिया वो दूसरों को भी वो ही पढा़येगा। तब उसको संतोष आयेगा कि हमने पूरी पढा़ई पढी़ और दूसरों को पूरी पढा़ई पढा़ई।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा उन्होंने भट्ठी नहीं की है ना, इसलिये बोल रहे है कि सी. डी में दिखाके याद करना सिखायेंगे ता अच्‍छा होगा ना ?

बाबा: कोर्स तो हुआ?
जिज्ञासु- हाँ।
बाबा: कोर्स किसने कराया?
जिज्ञासु: हमने कराया।
बाबा: हमने कोर्स कराया तो हमने फोर्स भरा?
जिज्ञासु: माता जी तो बहुत रोते हैं , बाबा से मिल नहीं पाते हैं। उनका युगल भट्ठी नहीं करने देते हैं।
बाबा: जिसको फोर्स भर जायेगा...(किसी ने कुछ कहा।) नहीं, नहीं। जिसको पूरा फोर्स भर जायेगा और वो टाईम जब आयेगा जब पूरा फोर्स भर जायेगा तो जो 16000 किरणें हैं, वो 16000 किरणें बन्धन में रहेंगी या निर्बन्धन हो जायेंगी? वो किसी के बन्धन में रहने वाली नहीं हैं।
जिज्ञासु: जो बन्धन में रहेगा वो 16000 के बाद आयेग?
बाबा: अरे भगवान मिल गया तो बन्धन किस बात का?

Disc.CD No.462, dated 11.12.07

Time: 40.40 - 43.10
Student: Baba, when the Moon merges in the Pacific Ocean, there will be just day.

Baba: Yes, the Moon should merge in the Pacific Ocean. What? The piece of Earth should go into the womb of the mother (Earth). It should merge (with Earth).
Student: Baba, it is not clear.
Baba: Why is it not clear? The moon of knowledge is a soul and the moon of knowledge is also a physical body. So, when will the soul of Krishna have a physical body? It will be in the Golden Age and when will the soul become complete? It will become (complete) in the Confluence Age. So, the soul of Krishna in the Confluence Age world of Brahmins will blend to become one with Vishnu or with the four arms of Vishnu. What? When it blends to become one, it means that the Earth and the Moon are not separate. It is a subject to be understood through the intellect. It will not happen in a physical form.

Student: Does it mean that the physical Moon will not come on Earth?
Baba: When the total destruction takes place in physical , the physical Moon will come on the Earth.

Student: Will the Pacific Ocean become a level land (samtal bhumi)?
Baba: Yes. It will not become a level land . It will become (merge in) an ocean.
Student: Now, it is already an ocean, isn’t it?
Baba: It is an ocean, but it is so deep that nobody can measure its depth. There are a lot of deep pits in that Moon as well.
Student: It means that the sea level will rise very high.
Baba: Yes. The level will rise, i.e. it will become shallow. But it is not true that it will change into land.

Time: 43.11 - 47.30
Student: Baba, the new souls who are listening to knowledge now and are developing a faithful intellect for the Father; so, should we teach them to remember (Baba) in Supreme Abode (Paramdham), the subtle Supreme Abode or should we teach them to remember (the Supreme Soul) in the middle of Baba’s forehead (bhrikuti)?

Baba: As regards this, everyone teaches according to his/her dhaarna (inculcations). If a thief has inculcated theft, he will teach only to steal. And if a rich person (merchant) has an inculcation of prosperity , he will teach only to become a prosperous person.
Student: What is the truth?
Baba: The truth is different for every soul. That which is truth for the soul of Abraham is not the truth for the soul of Narayan.
Student: But, what true answer would ShivBaba give to this question?
Baba: It has already been said, hasn’t it? The truth is different for every soul. (Someone said something.) No. (It is) according to the level of a faithful intellect.
Student: But until he completes the (advance) course, he doesn’t see corporeal (Sakar) Baba, that is why I am asking whether he should continue to remember (Baba) as a point or through the corporeal one until then?

Baba: Is Sakar Baba seen through the eyes of knowledge or through the physical eyes? There are such mothers in bondages that it has been many years (since they have entered the path of knowledge) and they have not seen Baba through the physical eyes at all and if you read their letters, you will feel as if ‘Aha.. ha…ha.. ha’, nobody can have such a faithful intellect at all ’.
Student: It has been said that if a child’s letter is not received for two months it is as if the child has died.

Baba: Letter is not received? Why is the letter not received? We are talking of the letter only. Even if they (the mothers in bondage) have not undergone bhatti, their letters will be received, their phone calls will be received.

Student: But Baba they cannot meet face to face, can they?
Baba: Can God be seen through these eyes of the face or can He be seen through the eyes of knowledge?

Student: The eyes of knowledge.
Baba: So, the eyes of knowledge can develop faith in spite of sitting far away. Has everyone seen Gandhiji? Then, did Gandhiji exist or not? Does Gandhiji cometo your mind or not? He comes to the mind.
Student: So, we will make them remember (Baba) by showing them the picture of Baba that appears in the CD, is it OK?
Baba: Everyone has an individual target of studying and teaching the knowledge, of becoming equal to the Father and making others equal to themselves. Whatever target he has set for himself to attain, he will teach the same to the others . Then he will feel satisfied that he has studied the complete knowledge and also taught others the complete knowledge.
Student: Baba, they have not done bhatti; this is why I am asking, if we should show them (Baba’s face) on the CD and teach them to remember, it will be fine, will it not?
Baba: Did he complete the course?
Student: Yes.
Baba: Who explained the course?
Student: I explained the course.
Baba: (Ask yourself) When I explained the course, did I fill him with force (i.e. power)?
Student: The (concerned) mother cries a lot that she is unable to meet Baba. Her husband is not allowing her to do bhatti.
Baba: The one who is filled with force…. (Someone said something.) No. No. The one who is filled with complete force and when the time comes, when they are filled with complete force, then will the 16000 rays remain under bondage or will they become free? They are not going to remain under the bondage of anyone.
Student: Will those who remain under bondages come after 16000?
Baba: Arey, when they have found God, where is the question of any bondage?
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 26 Dec 2009

वार्तालाप नं.462, कलकत्ता, दिनांक 11.12.07

समयः 47.33-52.45
जिज्ञासुः श्याम सुंदर की बात कम्प्लीट नहीं हुआ।...

बाबा: कम्प्लीट करो ना।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, जब तक ब्रह्मा सो विष्णु नहीं बनता है और कृष्ण की सोल... क्योंकि राम तो याद में रहते हैं। शिव बाबा तो पढा़ते हैं, रास्ता बताते हैं और कुछ नहीं करते हैं। अकर्ता है और राम वाली आत्मा याद में रहता है और कृष्ण वाली आत्मा सब कुछ करते रहते है। हजार भुजा में प्रवेश भी करते है और प्रवेश करके पार्ट बजाते है और बेसिकली बुद्धु है। अभी भी शिव शंकर गीता का भगवान है वो ही नहीं जानते है। एड्मिनिस्ट्रशन भी चलाते है। तो इसलिये जब तक ब्रह्मा सो विष्णु नहीं होगा 2018 तक तब तक यज्ञ में अशांति चलता ही रहेगा।
बाबा: अरे तो श्याम रहेगा या सुंदर हो जाएगा तब तक? श्याम ही रहेगा ना? तो क्या हुआ? इसमें नई बात क्या है?
जिज्ञासु: नई बात है ना। बहुतों को समझ में नहीं आता है...
बाबा: क्यों नहीं समझ में आता है?
जिज्ञासु: ये जो श्याम का जो पार्ट चल रहा है ये शिवबाबा नहीं बजाता हैं श्याम पार्ट, शिव बाबा के ऊपर नहीं लागू होता है।

बाबा: माने शंकर जो पार्ट बजाता है; मुरली में बोला है, देव देव महादेव। वह भी मैं हूँ। ये किसने बोला? महादेव का जो पार्ट बजाने वाला है वो राम वाली आत्मा है या शिव बजाता है? ब्रह्मा ने जो सहनशक्ति का पार्ट बजाया वो कृष्ण की सोल ने बजाया या वो सहनशक्ति का पार्ट शिव ने बजाया? अगर कृष्ण की आत्मा में बजाने की योग्यता होती तो 63 जन्म में भी बजा लिया होता।
जिज्ञासु: माने इन्द्रियों से भी शिव की सोल सब पार्ट बजाती है?
बाबा: शिव की सोल पतित पावन है; पतित पावन का पार्ट कौन बजाता है? राम वाली आत्मा बजाती है या शिव की आत्मा बजाती है? (सबने कहा – शिव की।) तो पूछने की क्या दरकार है इसमें? मूंझने की तो कोई दरकार ही नहीं है। /color]
जिज्ञासु: ...बजायेंगे तो श्याम पार्ट क्यों बजायेंगे? हमेशा सुन्दर पार्ट बजायेंगे।
बाबा: ये तो देखने वालों की आँखों का अंतर है। आँखें जो हैं ऐसी सोने की नहीं बनी हुई हैं। उन्हें ये दिखाई पड़ता है ये काला पार्ट बजाता है। हम क्षरित होने वाले हैं तो ये भी क्षरित होता होगा, हम डिस्चार्ज होने वाले हैं तो ये भी डिस्चार्ज होता होगा, हम ऑपरेशन करवाय देते हैं तो ये भी ऑपरेशन करवा देता होगा।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, जो भी पार्ट बजायेंगे तो जब शिवबाबा का पार्ट शुरु हुआ एड्वांस में तब से तो वैकुण्ठ का जो नजारा दिखाई देना शुरू होगा ।
बाबा: वो एक आत्मा को दिखाई देगा या सबको दिखाई देगा? जो सन् 76 से नई दुनिया की स्थापना और पुरानी दुनिया के विनाश की घोषणा की गई है, वो अनेकों के लिये की गई है या एक के लिये की गई है? एक की बात है। एक ही निश्चय बुद्धि बनता है।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा 31.12.03 के अव्यक्त वाणी में बोला है कि 2003 तक श्याम का पार्ट चला और 2004 से सुन्दर का पार्ट चला। लास्ट में अति सुन्दर का पार्ट होगा।
बाबा: लास्ट में अति सुन्दर। अति सुन्दर का मतलब है 100% सुन्दर। (किसी ने कुछ कहा।) हाँजी, हाँजी सही, ठीक बात है।

जिज्ञासु: 2004 से सुन्दर का पार्ट शुरु हो गया।
बाबा: क्योंकि शूटिंग का जो पीरियड है, कलियुगी शूटिंग का पीरियड वो खत्म हो गया और संगमयुग में जो शूटिंग के अन्दर शूटिंग है वो शुरू हो गई। ज्यादा पतन जो है वो 2036 तक होता है या संगमयुग में जो शूटिंग होती है उसमें ज्यादा पतन होता है? संगमयुग के अन्दर जो चारों युगों की शूटिंग चलती है और शूटिंग के भी अन्दर जो शूटिंग चलती है उसमें सबसे जास्ती पतन होता है 2018 तक। उसके बाद एक तरफ प्रत्यक्षता और दूसरी तरफ विनाश के नजारे। एक तरफ स्थापना के नजारे और दूसरे तरफ विनाश के नजारे। बच्चों को स्थापना दिखाई पड़ेगी नम्बरवार और जो बच्चे नहीं बने होंगे साढे़ चार लाख की ऊपर की स्टेज के होंगे, उनको विनाश ही विनाश दिखाई पड़ेगा।

Disc.CD No.462, dated 11.12.07

Time: 47.33-52.45
Student: The issue of Shyam-Sundar has not been completed.

Baba: Complete it, won’t you?
Student: Baba, until Brahma becomes Vishnu and the soul of Krishna....because (the soul of) Ram remains in remembrance. ShivBaba teaches (us), shows (us) the path and does not do anything else. He is akarta (one who does not perform any actions) and the soul of Ram remains in remembrance and the soul of Krishna keeps doing everything. He enters thousand arms and plays a part by entering and he is basically stupid. Even now he does not even know that Shiv-Shankar is the God of the Gita. He also runs the administration. So, therefore, until Brahma does not become Vishnu till 2018, disturbances will continue in the Yagya.
Baba: Arey, so, will he remain Shyam (of black complexion) or will he have become Sundar (beautiful/fair) by then? He will remain Shyam, will he not? So, what happened? What is the new thing in this?
Student: It is indeed a new thing. Many people don’t understand…....

Baba: Why don’t they understand?
Student: The part of Shyam that is going on; ShivBaba does not play that part; it does not apply to ShivBaba.
Baba: It means that the one who plays the part of Shankar, it has been said in the Murlis (for that) , Dev-Dev-Mahadev (great deity), that is also Me. Who said this? Is it the soul of Ram or is it Shiv who plays the part of Mahadev? In case of the part of tolerance played by Brahma, did the soul of Krishna play the part of tolerance or did Shiv play the part of tolerance? If the soul of Krishna had the capacity to play that role, it would have played that role for 63 births as well.
Student: Does it mean that even through the organs, the soul of Shiv plays all the parts?
Baba: Shiv’s soul is the Purifier of the sinful ones; who plays the part of the purifier of the sinful ones? Does the soul of Ram play that part or does the soul of Shiv play that part? (Everyone said: of Shiv). So, where is the need to ask in this? There is no need to be confused at all in this.
Student:....If He plays a part, why will He play a Shyam (dark) part? He will always play a beautiful (fair) part.
Baba: It is the difference of vision of the observers. The eyes are not made up of gold. They can see that this one plays a dark part. We get discharged; so, he too must be getting discharged; we are the ones who get discharged, so this one also must be getting discharged; we undergo operation; so, this one would also be undergoing operation.

Student: Baba, whatever part He plays, so, ever since ShivBaba’s part started in the advance (party), the scenes of heaven will become visible.
Baba: Will that be visible to one soul or to everyone? Was the declaration of establishment of the new world and destruction of the old world since the year (19)76 made for many (souls) or for one? It is the issue of one. Only one develops a faithful intellect.

Student: Baba, it has been said in an Avyakt Vani dated 31.12.03 that the Shyam (dark) part was played till 2003 and the Sundar (fair) part was played since 2004. In the last period, the part of the most beautiful one will be played.
Baba: Most beautiful in the last period. Most beautiful means 100% beautiful. (Someone said something). Yes, yes. It is correct.
Student: The part of the beautiful one started since 2004.
Baba: It is because the shooting period, the shooting period of Iron Age ended and the shooting within the shooting in the Confluence Age began. Does more downfall take place till 2036 or does more downfall take place during the shooting within the Confluence Age? The maximum downfall takes place in the shooting within the shooting of the four Ages that takes place in the Confluence Age till 2018. After that, on the one side revelation will take place and on the other side there will be scenes of destruction. On the one side there will be scenes of establishment and on the other side there will be scenes of destruction. Children will see the establishment number wise and those who would not have become children, those who will be in a stage of souls other than that of the four and a half lakhs (450 thousands), will see just destruction.
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 28 Dec 2009

वार्तालाप नं.462, कलकत्ता, दिनांक 11.12.07

समयः 55.03-57.10
जिज्ञासुः बाबा गीता में जो है दृष्ठभ्याहम इदं कृष्णम्...। (श्लोक) तो क्या प्रजापिता की बात है?

बाबा: भक्तिमार्ग में जो कृष्ण जहाँ-जहाँ आया है या श्रीमद भगवत गीता जिसे कहा गया है उसमें कृष्ण नाम जहाँ-जहाँ आया है वो शिव के लिये आया है या साकार के लिये आया है? (किसीने कुछ कहा।) जिन्होने प्रश्न किया है वो बताए। जहाँ जहाँ कृष्ण आया है वो किसके लिये आया है?
जिज्ञासु: शिव के लिये तो है।
बाबा: हाँ शिव के लिये आया है। तो शिव को दृष्ठव्य करो। देखने योग्य शिव है।
जिज्ञासु: ना बोला है एका... स्थितो...
बाबा: हाँ एकाग्र हो करके उसको देखो। थोडी़ भी बुद्धि चंचल हुई तो वो नहीं दिखाई पड़ेगा। दुनिया दिखाई पड़ेगी। कृष्ण की तो बात ही नहीं है। कृष्ण का तो नाम डाल दिया है भगवान के रूप में। है तो शिव की बात और शिव भी कोई साकार के द्वारा पहचाना जाता है। बिन्दी के रूप में तो पहचाना ही नहीं जा सकता।
जिज्ञासु: फिर भी बोलता है उनका तीन पाँव अमृत और एक पाद माया में जाता है, कहता है।
बाबा: तो क्या हुआ? सही बात तो है।
जिज्ञासु: ----(श्लोक)
बाबा: हाँ, जो साकार पार्ट है वो सम्पूर्ण शिव का ही पार्ट है या जिसका शरीर है उसका भी पार्ट है? अरे वो मुर्दा तो नहीं है? मुर्दा है क्या? उसका भी पार्ट है।
जिज्ञासु: जो सृष्टि का बीज है उनमें ही उनका सृष्टि प्रकाश होता है।
बाबा: हाँ जी।

समयः 57.21-59.03
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, ये भाई बोलते हैं जब आत्मिक स्थिति बन जाती है, आत्मिक स्थिति में फिर दुर्योधन दुःशासन की बात कैसे आती है?

बाबा: वो अपने अन्दर दिखाई पड़ता है पहले। जो अन्दर की ओर दृष्टि बन गई जिसकी... आत्मिक दृष्टि माना बहिर्मुखी या अंतर्मुखी? अंतर्मुखी। तो उसे पहले अन्दर का दुर्योधन दुःशासन दिखाई पड़ेगा या बाहर का दिखाई पड़ेगा? पहले कौनसा दिखाई पड़ेगा? (किसी ने कुछ कहा।) हाँ, वो ही प्रश्न, उसी प्रश्न का जवाब दिया।
जिज्ञासु: वी.सी.डी.-415 में आया , आत्मा जब मेल बनती है तब उसके अन्दर दुर्योधन दुःशासन का संस्कार बनती है।
बाबा: हाँ, ठीक है।
जिज्ञास़ु: आत्मा आत्मिक स्थिति में पहुँच चुका, अगर आत्मा आत्मिक स्थिति में आ जायेगा तो उसके अन्दर कैसे दुर्योधन दुःशासन का संस्कार बन जायेगा? दुर्योधन दुःशासन का संस्कार तो देहभान के आधार पर होता है।
बाबा: देहभान-आत्माभान के आधार पर बनता है लेकिन आत्मा इतनी अलग दिखाई पड़े कि शरीर अलग दिखाई पड़े और आत्मा अलग दिखाई पड़े। (किसी ने कुछ कहा।) हाँजी ऐसी स्टेज होनी चाहिये।
जिज्ञासु: तब दुर्योधन दुःशासन का फीलिंग़ नहीं आयेगा?
बाबा: किस बात का दुर्योधन दुःशासन? आत्मा ने अपने को पाँच तत्वों से अलग कर लिया। पाँच तत्वों के आकर्षण से अलग कर लिया।

समयः 59.42-1.01.22
जिज्ञासुः बाबा एक मुरली में हम पढ़ा था कि शिवबाबा अकर्ता नहीं है, असोचता है क्योंकि कर्ता रूप में ज्ञान सुनाते हैं तो मुंह यूज करते हैं। और फिर जब और-और कर्मेन्द्रियों से काम करता है वो भी काम करता है तो अकर्ता तो नहीं है, वो कर्ता है।

बाबा: अकर्ता इसलिये हैं - कर्म किया किया न किया, उसका प्रभाव उस आत्मा के ऊपर नहीं पड़ता। पाप कर्म और पुण्य कर्म नहीं बनता। देखते हुए न देखना, सुनते हुए न सुनना। सारी दुनिया ग्लानि करती रहे, सारी दुनिया एक तरफ और एक आत्मा दूसरी तरफ।
जिज्ञासु: माना कर्मेन्द्रियों से कर्म करते हैं कर्म करते हुए भी...
बाबा: उसके प्रभाव से प्रभावित नहीं होता।
जिज्ञासु: प्रभाव से प्रभावित नहीं होता उसके लिये अकर्ता बन जाता है।
बाबा: हाँजी।
जिज्ञासु: वास्तव में कर्ता है।
बाबा: करनकरावनहार है नहीं? अरे काम तो करे लेकिन काम ऐसा करे जो उसका प्रभाव दूसरों के तरह न हो। रिजल्ट, जो दूसरे काम कर रहे हैं वैसा ही अगर रिजल्ट आये तो फिर कर्म करने में अंतर क्या रहा? कर्मयोगी का कर्म और कर्मभोगी का कर्म - उसमें अंतर नहीं होगा?

Disc.CD No.462, dated 11.12.07

Time: 55.03-57.10
Student: Baba, it is mentioned in the Gita – Drishtabhyaaham idam Krishnam.... (shloka) So, does it refer to Prajapita?

Baba: In the path of devotion, wherever the word ‘Krishna’ has been mentioned in (the scripture) Shrimad Bhagwat Gita, has it been mentioned for Shiv or for the corporeal one? (Someone said something.) The one who has asked the question should speak. Wherever the word ‘Krishna’ has been mentioned , to whom is it referred ?
Student: It is certainly for Shiv.
Baba: Yes, it has been mentioned for Shiv. So, see Shiv. Shiv is worth seeing.
Student: No, it has been said , Eka…... ....... sthito....
Baba: Yes, concentrate (your mind) and see Him. Even if your intellect becomes inconstant a little, He will not be visible. You will see the world. It is not about Krishna at all. Krishna’s name has been inserted in the form of God. It is actually about Shiv and Shiv is recognized through a corporeal medium. He cannot be recognized in the form of a point at all.
Student: Even then it is said; three of his legs are in nectar and one leg goes into Maya.
Baba: So, what? It is correct.
Student: ...(Shloka).
Baba: Yes, is the corporeal part only a part of Shiv completely or is it also of the one whose body it is? Arey, he is not a corpse, is he? Is he a corpse? He has a part, too.
Student: The illumination of the world is in the seed of the world himself.
Baba: Yes.

Time: 57.21-59.03
Student: Baba, this brother says that when we develop the soul conscious stage then how does the issue of Duryodhans and Dushasans arise in a soul conscious stage?

Baba: That is visible within us first of all. The one who has developed a vision to see inside....does soul conscious vision mean extrovert or introvert (the one in soul consciousness)? Introvert. So, will he first see the Duryodhan, Dushasan within himself or the outside one? Which one will he see first? (Someone said something.) Yes, the same question, I have replied to the same question.
Student: It has been mentioned in the VCD No.415 that when a soul becomes a male, then it develops the sanskars of Duryodhan, Dushasan.
Baba: Yes, it is correct.
Student: If a soul has reached the soul conscious stage; if a soul develops the soul conscious stage, then how will the sanskars of Duryodhan and Dushasan develop in it? Sanskars of Duryodhan and Dushasan are on the basis of body consciousness.
Baba: It develops on the basis of body consciousness and soul consciousness. But the soul should appear to be so different that the body and the soul should be seen as two separate entities. (Someone said something.) Yes, the stage should be like this.
Student: Will the feeling of Duryodhan, Dushasan not arise then?
Baba: How will they remain Duryodhan, Dushasan? The soul separated itself from the five elements. It separated itself from the attraction of the five elements (in that stage).

Time: 59.42-1.01.22
Student: Baba, I had read in a Murli , ShivBaba is not akarta (one who does not perform actions), but He is asochta (one who does not think) because when He narrates knowledge in the form of a karta (a doer) He uses the mouth. And when He works through other organs of action, he performs action; so He is not akarta, (but) He is a karta.

Baba: He is akarta because it is one and the same whether He performs the action or not, it does not have any influence on the soul. It does not result into sinful action or a noble deed. Not to see while observing, not to listen while hearing. The entire world may continue to defame, the entire world may be on one side and one soul may be on the other side.
Student: It means that despite performing actions through the organs of action....
Baba: He is not influenced by its effect.
Student: He is not influenced, therefore He becomes akarta.
Baba: Yes.
Student: Actually, He is a karta.
Baba: Is He Karan Karaavanhaar (the doer and the enabler) or not? Arey, He should perform actions, but He should perform such actions that its effect should not be like the others. In case of result, if the result of His actions is like the result of actions performed by others, then what is the difference between their actions? Will there not be a difference between the actions of a karmayogi (the one who remains in remembrance while performing actions) and the actions of a karmabhogi (one who seeks bodily pleasures while performing actions)?
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 03 Jan 2010

Disc.CD 210
Nepal Party; Date:5.12.2006

Student: Baba, my first question is , like some of the souls[when they] come in front of Baba in corporeal form, some are there who forget everything, their mind becomes 0 [blank], they don’t remember anything. Before, several questions arise in their mind but when Baba comes in front to them, they forget everything and the questions don’t come in his mind. What can be the reason for this for those souls? Why does it happen so?

Baba - Those who are Baba’s children, those who belong to Baba’s home…then, Baba’s home is Paramdham (the Supreme Abode). He is a resident of where?
Student:Of Paramdham.
Baba- Do thoughts emerge in Paramdham?
Student:It is thoughtless (nirsankalpi) stage.
Baba - It is a nirsankalpi stage (thoughtless stage) there. He is the resident of nirsankalpi home, so those children who talk (to Baba), those children whose connection is formed (with Baba); their connection is formed with Paramdham. Why won’t (they experience this stage).
Student:If some souls don’t experience that (thoughtless stage)?
Baba - Those who don’t experience it, they don’t belong to our clan (kul).
Student:They are not (of our clan). So, it means….............
Baba - They are from other clans.
Student:So, that soul must have been with Baba for 63 births.
Baba – Definitely, he might have remained . That’s why he forgets everything as soon as he sees Baba. He forgets the worldly affairs.
Student:Baba, the second question is, like we speak in Hindi, does ShivBaba understand only Hindi? Doesn’t He understand other language? Not ShivBaba. The Father Shiv (Shivbaap)
Baba - In which permanent Chariot does the Father Shiva come?
Student:The one who knows Hindi language.
Baba - He will understand the language according to the Chariot He enters. What is the need to speak so many languages?
Student:Does it mean that Shivbaap doesn’t know any other language except Hindi.
Baba - Will He just sit and learn languages?
Student:Say if He enters a Chariot who is American…
Baba - Why will He enter an American Chariot?
Student:No, I am saying it as an example.
Baba – When God is one, the child of God is also said to be one. So, will He enter only one or in all? Will He become sarvavyapi (omnipresent)? Does He come becoming ‘present in one’ (ekvyapi) or as sarvavyapi?
Student:He comes as ekvyapi.
Baba – Then? Yes, He enters children for service but it cannot be known, when did He come , when did He go, what happened?... Mama-Baba can enter in other children.
Student:Mama-Baba can enter?
Baba –Hum.
Student:Like, Baba says many times in Murlis, “ don’t ride the ox all the time?”
Baba – Doesn’t He have to do service through other children? He lifts up some (children) by giving the power through drishti (vision). . He uplifts some (children) through the power of vaaca (speech); if the one who explains is weak but he shows courage (to speak), so, won’t the Father help the one who shows courage?
Student:Baba in this way, ShivBaba will not remain ekvyapi, will He?
Baba - This will not be proved at all (that He enters other children). Then how can be sarvavyapi? He will be said to be sarvavyapi only when it is proved or any proof is found. He enters the children to do service (seva).
Student:Baba, like it is said that every religious Father comes and repairs the house-like world; all the religious fathers like Abraham, Buddha, Christ, Guru Nanak etc. So, when Tretayug (the Silver Age) ends, Abraham comes in this earth. How does Abraham do the repairing when he comes because, he spreads duality in the world?
Baba - He does spread duality but at that time the souls of the Islam religion (dharm) experience the stage of downfall while enjoying the pleasures of drishti. They are very much habituated of experiencing the pleasures of the body. They fall down the most, they become impure (patit). He (Abraham) comes and uplifts the same souls (who have fallen down). He fills power in them, their battery charges as soon as he (Abraham) comes.
Student:No Baba, like the soul of Abraham comes down from the Supreme Abode ...
Baba – There is no need to repair the whole house. Only those parts which are broken and damaged need to be repaired. All the souls who convert into the Islam religion fall down by that time. That portion of the world (the souls who have fallen down) breaks, it starts to break. So, he repairs that (souls).
Student:That means he repairs only (the souls of) his clan.
Baba - Yes, he repairs the souls of his own clan.
Student:The same thing is applied for Christ and Buddha etc?
Baba - It is the same for everyone.
Student:Baba, when we did the ‘Trimurti’ course during our Bhatti in Advance , we were explained that when Parampita Parmatma (the Supreme Father Supreme Soul) comes in this world, first of all , he comes collectively with the ‘Trimurti’ (three personalities) . So, when Gita mata (mother Gita) narrates the clarifications of Dada Lekhraj , ShivBaba enters her at that time, I mean Shivbaap , doesn’t He?
Baba – Gita Mata doesn’t narrate clarification.
Student:No, not clarification, she narrates the vision.
Baba – Yes, she narrates the visions as it is.
Student:Yes, the task of narration is done by ShivBaba, isn’t it?
Baba – Hum. Whatever she heard (from Dada Lekhraj), she narrates it.
Student:Yes, she narrates whatever she heard. It is only ShivBaba who narrated it through her mouth, isn’t it?
Baba – (Baba nods his head saying no.) Only the work of narrating what she heard (from Dada Lekhraj) was done through her.
Student:ShivBaba did it, didn’t He?
Baba – (Baba nods his head saying yes.) No one had the courage to speak much in front of Prajapita. Brahma didn’t have courage at all so he didn’t tell him (Prajapita) directly. He told it to the matas (mothers). Even the matas didn’t have that much courage either. ShivBaba entered her and gave her courage (himmat).
Student: ‘Gave courage’ means, Baba entered her, didn’t He ?After entering…....
Baba – When He enters, on one side, she will start to narrate and (on the other side) he (Prajapita) will start to listen and understand. The work of narrating and listening by her (Gita mata) and the work of understanding and explaining by him (Prajapita) happen simultaneously.
Student: They were saying that ShivBaba (enters them simultaneously), the work happens together.
Baba - I tell you something, then don’t you understand along with listening.
Student:Yes, I understand.
Baba - And when you understand you will also explain. The one who understands can make others understand as well. She (Gita mata) did the work of listening and narrating ....
Student:The one who made this do was certainly Shivbaap, wasn’t He?
Baba - ...............…and he (Prajapita) did the work of understanding and explaining.
Student:Baba, that happened together, didn’t it?
Baba – It certainly happens together.
Student:How can ShivBaba enter them together and do the work?
Baba – Arey! Doesn’t the work of understanding happen along with listening? I told you something and didn’t you understand that along with listening? So, doesn’t it happen together?
Student:It means, ShivBaba…......
Baba – The sowing of the seed of knowledge…........understanding and explaining is also called Gyan (knowledge). So, Shiv sowed the seed of understanding and explaining, the seed of knowledge but through mata (the mother) the foundation of Bhakti (devotion) was laid.
Student:Of listening and narrating.
Baba - The foundation of listening and narrating was laid (through the mother) (and) through him (Prajapita) the foundation of understanding and explaining was laid, meaning the foundation of Gyan was laid through him. That’s why in the Gita it is said ‘Aham beej Pradahpita’ i.e. I’m the Father who sows the seed, the Father sowed the seed of knowledge.
Student:Baba, I mean to say the task of listening and narrating and understanding and explaining…...........
Baba - .........…happens together.
Student:....together…...…it is Shivbaap alone who makes it happen?
Baba – In any process in the creation…; in the process creating a creation there is an equal involvement of man-woman together. It is not that the man gave birth to the child first or the mother gave birth first. Does it happen like that?
Baba - Then...
Student:So, the work that was being done, did Shivbaap alone do it together. He did that task after entering, didn’t He ?
Baba - Only Shiv does the work of commencement of this world. Mata inculcates and Baap makes her inculcate the seed…... (to be continued)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 04 Jan 2010

Disc.CD 210
Nepal Party; Date:5.12.2006

Time 30:45
Student:Baba, like it is said the light of we souls radiates through these (our) eyes.

Baba – It is correct.
Student:So, how does it happen, I mean, how does the task of radiation of light takes place?
Baba – Don’t you receive a more powerful drishti (vision) sometimes?
Student:Yes, I receive it.
Baba - Do you experience it?
Student:Yes, I experience it.
Baba – Likewise, when we give drishti to someone else, our drishti has more force. Like someone becomes angry... at that time of anger, his eyes are more raged, aren’t they?
Student:So that (force) becomes the light…
Baba - Yes, that is the rajopradhan(dominated by the quality of activity or passion) power of the atma (soul) which comes out when someone becomes angry.
Student: Baba, I have one confusion about ice. Like it is said that later (at the time of destruction) the ones who aren’t able to complete their purusharth (special effort for the soul), their bodies are buried in ice, aren’t they?
Baba – Their bodies will freeze.
Student: It means their bodies will jam, so at that time, when their bodies are inside ice, does their soul remain inside the body or does it move out?
Baba - When the body has become senseless; the mind and intellect has become senseless as well, isn’t it?. The mind and intellect means atma.
Student:That means atma remains there .
Baba - Why will it stay (inside)?
Student:Won’t it remain?
Baba - When the body became immobile, what will the soul do remaining inside it? It will roam anywhere.
Student:Baba, that means it won’t go above to Paramdham (the Supreme abode) , it will (remain here).
Baba - It will roam in the Subtle Region (sukshma vatan) .
Student:Any soul among the 4 and half lakh souls (450 thousand), who will be able to complete their purusharth...
Baba - Whichever souls whose purusharth doesn’t complete now; whether they die due to an untimely death or they may freeze in ice, they will all assemble in the Subtle Region. When the final destruction takes place, then all (the souls) will go back (to Paramdham).
Student:Baba, ‘all’ means the seed-form 4 and half lakh souls will stay just here in this world , won’t they?
Baba - Those who will become fit to make their bodies kancan kaya (rejuvenate), their souls will start entering those respective bodies. What? The entrance (of the soul) will take place and the birth of children will begin as well. The ones who give birth and the ones who take birth, both of them will go up together meaning the soul who enters and the one in whom the soul entered, they go up together.
Student:Will they go to Paramdham??
Baba - They go to Paramdham and come back and enter the same body, the body which has frozen.
Student:The frozen body. But Baba, some souls complete their purusharth beforehand; they don’t need to be buried in ice, do they?
Baba - All will have to be buried except 8.
Student:Everyone will have to be buried?
Baba – Certainly.
Student:All!!!... That means only 8 will remain in this world and all the rest…................
Baba - In the beginning there will be only 8, won’t there?
Student:And all the rest will go to Paramdham…
Baba - It is not about going back to Paramdham. It is about remaining in the seed-form stage. Like you said here, ‘ I forget everything, I develop a nirsankalpi (thoughtless) stage’. So, did you go to Paramdham?
Baba - You didn’t go to Paramdham but you came in the vibration of the Father, you came to the Father’s home.
Student:That means the soul remains here, it doesn’t go anywhere?
Baba - That means the soul reaches that stage. The nirsankalpi stage means the nirakari (incorporeal) stage.
Student:That means Baba, it’s not about going to Paramdham but it’s about attaining that stage, isn’t it?
Baba - The idea of going to Paramdham is only when (the soul) reaches a complete stage. Right now, it’s like coming and going (to Paramdham). That going to Paramdhaam will become everlasting and there won’t be coming back in this world. At present time, we go there for a while and again come back in the world of thoughts. The final ‘going’ will be at the end. It will be ‘we went and came back ’ ((into the new world).
Student:When Navin Bhai (a PBK brother) did his course about Paramdham, he told that just like the Brahmakumaris show that below is the earth and above it is the levels of sukshamvatan (the Subtle Region) ...
Baba - They show the circular portion, don’t they? The circular portion means the earth is in the middle and all around it is sukshma vatan and Paramdham . It is on all the sides, all around the earth. There is Vayumaṅḍal (the atmosphere) all around the earth, and all around the atmosphere is space, and all around the space is sukshma vatan and Paramdham.
Student:Baba, is it in a circular form ?
Baba – Yes, it is. It’s all around it. It’s not like, it is situated only up or it is situated down. It is in all the four directions.
Student:So Baba, what will be the perimeter of Paramdham? It will be unlimited, won’t it?
Baba – It is unlimited.
Student: It cannot be measured, can it be?
Baba - This world is limited. The sun, moon and stars, are limited as well .
Student:So, how does the soul stay there? Navin Bhai said they (souls) keep rotating round and round around their…..........
Baba - The souls which are sharper by the intellect, the more the soul is swift, , the more it takes everyone within it’s perimeter and lives , it keeps everyone under its control like Shiv. Next is Prajapita. He will not take Shiv under his control, within his perimeter. And all the rest of the world, the human souls will be under his control. Similarly, the other 500 crore (5 billion) number wise souls that are there, they all remain in each other’s perimeter. Even the souls of living creatures, stay within human being’s perimeter. The souls of insects and spiders, they stay within the perimeter of animals and birds. And the souls of non-living (jar) trees and plants stay close to the earth. That means, the more someone has a sharp intellect, the more he is beyond the five elements (paanc tatva) of earth. And the more someone h as a inert intellect, the more is he closer to the earth.
Student:That‘s why the Father Shiv is the farthest.
Baba - He (the Father Shiv) is the most beyond. He controls everyone.
Student:Baba, in one Murli I heard that the microscopic organism like amoeba, bacteria, which cannot be seen with these eyes, they also have a soul, haven’t they?
Baba - Doesn’t bacteria have a soul? Don’t the doctors see the bacteria with the microscope? Don’t they see the bacteria of malaria?
Student:They see.
Baba - So is that living or non living?
Student: It is living.
Baba – It is living. There is a soul in it too .....(to be continued)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 05 Jan 2010

Disc.CD 210
Nepal Party; Date:5.12.2006

Student: And Baba we see in the discovery channel, national geographic channel that where a tiger kills a goat and a crocodile too kills (its prey); so it feels so much sorrow, isn’t it? Its blood comes out . So Baba, why does it happen so? I mean, why the animal has to suffer such brutality? Do they have accounts of their karma as well?

Baba - There are the karmic accounts of the four-leged animals. The animals which are Caupaii, those with four hands or legs, those which walk with hands or legs; those which walk with two legs and two hands are called caupaii; they have are a species. What? They convert from one species into another. Transition takes place. Like in the beginning of the Copper Age (Dwapur), there must have been dinosaurs.
Student:At the end of the Silver Age (treta).
Baba – Yes. They used to stay in a jungle. And the jungle was set on fire suddenly, all of them died; someone somewhere remained, a male or a female. So, if it is the only one left, it will mate with some other creature, won’t it? So a new species will emerge and the former one will become extinct.
Student:Baba, however, the animals don’t think and churn,as if they have an inert intellect.
Baba - However, they have an intellect. They seek for their food and drink, don’t it they? They do have an intellect.
Student:But it cannot think.
Baba - Why not? When it sees fire it runs away, doesn’t it? If a tiger is approaching, the goat will run away, won’t it? The cow will run away after seeing the tiger, won’t it? Don’t they have an intellect?
Student:They do have an intellect.
Baba – Then?
Student:So Baba, it has to suffer according to its karmic accounts, hasn’t it? Like in the case of the goat…
Baba - Yes, the goat became a goat in this birth. Who knows in its previous birth which kind of four-legged animal was it?
Student:But Baba this won’t happen in the Golden Age (Satyug), will it?I mean like the tiger…..........
Baba - In Satyug there is no brutality, violent animals are not there.
Student:Because, it has been said that in Satyug there is natural beauty everywhere.
Baba – Violent creatures are not there. When the human beings are non-violent, the animals are non-violent as well.
Student:Baba, even the tigers are not there, are they? I mean the violent animals that are present here.
Baba - Whichever living creatures that will be there, they won’t be violent. Here the human being has a violent attitude, so the living creatures who do violence are present as well . There the human being themselves won’t be violent so, whichever living creatures that will be there, they all will be saatvik (pure). They will not be the ones to do violence. When the human being becomes vicious, all the living creatures become vicious as well. There is a power of vibrations within the human beings which brings about transformation of the whole world. Even now, the transformation of the world will not happen through delivery of speeches. The transformation will not take place through the service of running around as well . Only vibration will bring about transformation. Drishti (vision) and vritti (vibration) do a very powerful work.
Student:Baba it is said that except the Ashta-dev (eight deities), all the rest will suffer the (beatings of) danda (stick) of Dharamraj, won’t they?
Baba – Hum.
Student: The 108, I mean the 100 (beads of the rosary) as well as the 16000, they all will suffer(the beatings). What does it mean by suffering (the beating of the stick)? How (it happens)?
Baba – Number wise some sinful deeds (of those who suffer the beatings) of theirs remain to be burnt into ashes, they aren’t able to complete their purusharth.
Student:Baba, what is the meaning of being swept off?
Baba – It is Prakriti (nature) who sweeps, to clear the rubbish. (But) there is beating of Dharamraj. They suffer thrashing.
Student:How are they beaten by a stick? I mean Baba, they have done sinful deeds, haven’t they? So, how does the soul realizes, my sinful deeds are being destroyed, I am suffering beatings of Dharamraj’s danda?
Baba - Those who don’t have a body now, like Brahma Baba, Saraswati, Vishwa Kishor (a BK brother) who have already left their body, they won’t receive a body now but, they will suffer beatings after their entrance with their subtle body in someone (bodily being) . Baba has said), “I will make you take a body and then give you punishment. It is not that your punishments will end by suffering it through thoughts.”
Student:They will suffer beatings physically too?
(Baba consents by shaking his head.)
Student:Baba, like last time a soul had entered me, didn’t it? So, the soul which had entered me, was it the one to be included among the 4 and half lakh souls who will take birth in the form of a child or was it someone else? Like some souls enter the seed-form souls, so the soul who enters, is it the one who is going to take birth through the seed-form soul (in whom it has entered or…
Baba – There are of 2 types. The first ones are those who after leaving their body in BK enter into the seed-form souls. The stage of the souls who enter the seed-form souls becomes seed-form as well . Therefore, their facial expression, their vision doesn’t change. Their vision, their facial expression remains normal, they act normally. We don’t come to know when the soul came and when did it go away. But there are some evil souls who enter and make the condition (of the one in whom it has entered) bad.
Student:Like it happened to me . Baba, he ( another student) is telling that, just like you said now that, when someone comes in front of you in corporeal, he becomes thoughtless, meaning he forgets. But, he didn’t experience anything like this. So, he is asking, does it mean that I don’t belong to this clan at all?
Baba – What happened? What didn’t he experience?
Student:He didn’t experience like that (thoughtless stage).
Baba - Is it a good thing that some soul, an evil soul enters you?
Student:No, no.
Baba - If there is no firm purusharth of soul-conscious stage, an evil soul will enter. If you have a firm purusharth of soul-conscious stage, why will it enter?
Student:And Baba, like it is said, there is a root-soul of every religion…...…no, no, like there was Siddharth . Mahatma Buddha entered in Siddharth. So, Mahatma Buddha comes from Paramdham for the first time. Meaning, he doesn’t take birth, he enters. So, Siddharth takes birth through Shuddhodhan. So, Suddhodhan is a seed-form soul who is in the advance (knowledge) currently and Prajpita becomes his Father.
Baba - The Father of Suddhodhan.
Baba – Bindusar, he is the Father of even him (Shuddhodhan) i.e. he is the Father of even the seed-form souls.
Student:Baba, that means he is Rambap (the Father Ram), isn’t he?
Baba - Yes. He is Baba (grandfather). Here (in Sangamyug) too, he plays the part of Baba; he does the shooting as well as there he becomes Baba.
Student:So, Prajapita is the grandfather of even Christ, Mohammad.
Baba - He is the grandfather of everyone; he will be the grandfather everywhere (in every religion).
Student:Baba, does the yugal ( wife) of Prajapita, remain Jagatmata (the world mother) always?
Baba – Hum. It can be possible.
Student:Another brother – But it is said that Christ didn’t have a Father?
Baba - It is just said so.
Student:How will a child take birth without a Father. (Concluded)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 06 Jan 2010

Disc.CD No.444, dated 25.11.07 at Vijayvihar, Part-2

Student: Someone’s wealth remains buried under the dust; ‘under the dust’ means the money that has been buried in a limited sense in the soil....
Baba: Yes, people bury money, they bury gold and silver; so, it will remain buried under the soil. When the Earth shakes, then it will go from one place to another place. You have understood properly. What’s next?
Student: Someone’s wealth is taken away by the king.
Baba: ‘Someone’s wealth is taken away by the king’ means the income tax [department] will take it away or if you deposit it in a bank (and) the bank fails; so, in a way the king has taken away (your wealth).
Student: Someone’s wealth was taken away by the thief.
Baba: Yes, the thieves will take it away.
Student: ‘Thieves’ means those who take away by force, nowadays they are using force.
Baba: Yes, it could be thieves or robbers.
Student: So, they will take away by force and in an unlimited sense also it means....
Baba: Speak about the unlimited sense later on. First you say it in a limited sense. Yes, what’s ahead?
Student: Someone’s wealth is burnt in fire.
Baba: Someone’s wealth is burnt in fire. When Hindus and Muslims fight, then they will start indulging in arson, they will set all the houses on fire, then the entire physical wealth will perish. It means that you understood correctly in a limited sense. You spoke a lie that you did not know in a limited sense either. Now tell it in an unlimited sense.Student: I did not understand in an unlimited sense. You tell me in an unlimited sense.
Baba: OK, listen – ‘someone’s wealth remains buried under dust. In a limited sense, it refers to the gross wealth, gross money and property. And in an unlimited sense, it is a wealth of knowledge. The wealth in an unlimited sense i.e. knowledge, which ShivBaba has given to us children; first He narrated it and now He has explained it. That wealth of knowledge of some people remains buried under dust. Dust means soil of body consciousness. In case of those who have more body consciousness, it is one and the same whether they have knowledge or not. What? Will anyone listen to knowledge from someone who is body conscious? It will remain buried in body consciousness, it will remain buried. And someone’s wealth will be gobbled (i.e. taken away) by the king – ‘king will gobble’ means some people acquire knowledge in such a way that they do obtain knowledge, but Didis, Dadis and Dadas finish their knowledge . What? The gurus, who are sitting, they say (about the advance knowledge) don’t they?.. . – ‘Arey, you have heard lies’, these are wasteful issues’ And they are influenced by them. So, who gobbled (the wealth of knowledge)? The king gobbled it.

Someone’s wealth remains buried under dust, someone’s wealth is gobbled by the king and someone’s wealth is stolen by the thieves – people are full of lust, anger, greed, attachment, and ego to such an extent that in spite of coming in advance, that lust, anger, greed, attachment, ego does not leave them. They have developed such accounts since many births. So, those thieves will steal and take it away. The wealth and property will not remain with them (i.e. those who had it). And someone’s wealth will be burnt in fire. This fire of lust and anger is such that howevermuch wealth, the wealth of knowledge, someone may earn, but what will happen to all that? It will be burnt to ashes. When people become angry, does the knowledge remain in the intellect? It does not remain. When they have an impulse of lust, the person becomes blind in lust, does he remember knowledge then? No. Did you not understand such a small issue? OK.(to be continued)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 07 Jan 2010

Disc.CD No.444, dated 25.11.07 at Vijayvihar, Part-2

Time: 9.40-14.48
Student: Baba, the Supreme Abode which is situated all around the sky....

Baba: All around the sky? Is it not all around the Earth?
Student: It is all around the Earth as well. So, when the Supreme Soul Shiv goes back, in which direction does He become constant?
Baba: The soul that assumes the perfect stage.....now there are souls of ghosts and spirits; are they perfect? They are not perfect, but even then they have lost their physical body. They have gone beyond the bondage of the physical body. So, how much power do they assimilate? Do they acquire more power or do they have less power? They become very powerful. For example, it has been said for Kumarka Dadi that until she was in her body, there was bondage of public honour (lok-laaj). She was not able to utter the truth; gurus cannot utter the truth at all; but when she left her body, and as soon as she assumed a subtle body, the entire truth became clear in her intellect regarding what is the truth. If you read the Avyakt Vanis carefully, they tell you. It is mentioned in the Avyakt Vani.

So, it proves that the subtle body possesses so much power. And if a soul renounces the subtle body as well, if it becomes detached from its bondage as well, then it can obtain information it wants from whichever place of this world in a second or not? It can. This has made it clear that all those souls which will go on becoming perfect will have a sphere (daairaa) of their own, in which they will be more powerful. It means that the sphere of Shiv is the biggest sphere in this entire world, in the entire atmosphere, in the entire sky. He can keep everyone under His control. After Him, the soul that becomes perfect is Prajapita. Even that Prajapita cannot cross the sphere of Shiv, but within his sphere he will encircle the entire world.

For example it has been said in a Murli that the seed (soul of the human creation) contains the knowledge of the entire (human) tree, just as the entire tree is contained in the seed. And as for this one, it is a variety tree. What? For example, there are many kinds of trees (growing) from a tree (jhaar). You must have often seen that a Peepal tree also grows out on a Banyan tree. A Neem tree also grows on it. A mango tree also grows out of it. So, similarly, this is a variety tree and there are variety seeds of the variety tree, but everyone is numberwise. There is a seed which is the only seed of the entire world. So, these are numberwise souls; the Earth is round and there is atmosphere all around the spherical Earth and there is horizon (kshitij) all around the atmosphere which is called space. There is not even oxygen over there. And all around the horizon (space) there is only the Supreme Abode and nothing else. It means that the more powerful a soul is, it will stay in a higher stage beyond the five elements of the Earth and it will stay in a bigger sphere to that extent. And the less powerful a soul is, the lesser intellect it has, the smaller will be its range. It means that there is a soul in trees and plants too.

When the world is flooded, when the atom bombs explode, then all of them (i.e. trees and plants) will perish. They too will remain in their sphere but they are inert. Their sphere will be very small. The sphere of the insects and spiders will be bigger than theirs. And the sphere of animals will be bigger than this. And the sphere of human beings will be much bigger than that. And even among them (i.e. the human beings) the Suryavanshi souls (those belonging to the Sun dynasty) will include everyone within their sphere. So, it is not as if the Supreme Abode is above; Arey, the Earth is spherical. When we are sitting here (according to the location on the globe), the upper portion is here while America is on the opposite side of the spherical Earth. So, will it be said that the Supreme Abode is in the underworld (paataal)? No. The Supreme Abode is everywhere. So, when the soul becomes perfect, it encloses, it covers the entire world in its sphere.

Time: 14.49-16.37
Student: Baba, the human soul resides in the middle of their forehead; where does the soul of the trees and plants reside?

Baba: The soul of the trees and plants reside in the seed.
Student: Baba, a seed is visible in a physical form.
Baba: Then, it remains in the roots. A tree, a non-living tree is a seed, it mixes itself within the soil, and what grows after it mixes with the soil? A tree grows. When that tree grows big, then the same seed comes above once again.
Student: Baba, their soul too must be having the form of a point of light; the soul of trees and plants must also be point of light.
Baba: All the souls are points of light. Take for example our soul; it is a point of light, but when the finger is cut, where does it reach? It reaches the finger. So, it is as if it is full of body consciousness, the soul is spread all over the body. Similarly, when a tree is cut, if a branch is cut; what? There are three branches of a tree. If a branch is cut, then does it have an effect or not? Similarly, if there are three to four main roots of a tree; if one of those roots is cut, then the leaves above start drying. Why did they start drying? For example, the soul of the human beings is in the middle of the forehead in the body, then, if an organ is cut anywhere the soul feels the pain. Similarly, it is connected ( in a tree as well ).

Time: 24.58-25.25
Student: Baba, how should we remember ShivBaba?

Baba: Have you given birth to a child or not? (Someone said – He is unmarried.) Is he unmarried? OK, does your Father have any property or not?
Student: He has.
Baba: Do you remember your Father or not?
Student: I do.
Baba: How do you remember your Father? How do you remember that Father?
Student: I remember him on seeing him.
Baba: You remember him on seeing him. So, here too, see and remember. Arey, whatever you will see through the eyes, whatever you will experience through the organs, whatever you will see through the organs, (or) experience through the organs… and when you feel the joy through that, it will certainly be remembered (by you). There is nothing to ask in it at all, how we should remember. Arey, a mother remembers her child. A child remembers his Father; he remembers his mother. How does he remember? Does he ever ask (how to remember)? This is an artificial thing. It means that you have not recognized. If you recognize with a faithful intellect, what attainments do we make and from whom, then the issue of asking doesn’t remain.
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 09 Jan 2010

Disc.CD No.444, dated 25.11.07 at Vijayvihar, Part-2

Time: 26.45-27.50
Student: Why are (human) arms shown (to be hanging) around the waist of Kali?

Baba: Yes. The same Murli (clarifications) are narrated again and again, and people don’t listen to them at all and keep asking the same questions again and again. Many arms are shown (to be hanging) around the waist of Kali, Mahakali; are the arms shown to be cut or are they complete arms? The arms are cut. It means that Mahakali goes on cutting the arms of God and covers the honour of her waist. What? What does she do to cover her weakness? She goes on cutting the arms of God. Arm (bhuja) means a cooperative person (sahyogi). Arm means a helper (madadgaar). Did you not understand? Arey, did you understand or not?
Student: I understood it.
Baba: You have understood. Yes. Then it’s O.k.

Time: 31.57-34.18
Student: Baba, it is said about the family that if one of the members of a family follows the (advance) knowledge, then the entire family will follow…..but our brothers, mother, paternal uncles are also included in our family. They oppose us. So, will they also follow (the knowledge in future) or not?

Baba: Family means all the people with the same blood relationship are part of the (same) family. For example, you are following the advance knowledge; so, who are the persons in your family who have definitely listened to your versions in some way, in the form of an opposition or in the form of friendliness? Has anyone listened or not?
Student: No, nobody has listened and they oppose.
Baba: No, they have not accepted, but at least they have listened to what you say, what you want.
Student: I wish to say that…..
Baba: No, no, the knowledge which you are following. Have they heard that knowledge to some extent or not, he wants this, he wishes to say this.
Student: Those people aren’t listening.
Baba: Didn’t they hear? Didn’t they accept?
Student: No.
Baba: But do they know something about you?
Student: They wish to say, what kind of knowledge you have obtained that you have stopped worshipping….
Baba: Have they come to know this much or not? They have come to know this much, he has stopped worshipping. He does not follow this path. So, they have information about you, don’t they? People of the world do not have the information. It means, they are interested in you or not? They are interested. When the revelation takes place, and when the Father is revealed through the newspapers, through television, through radio as well, when the same thing will be an issue of discussion everywhere, then those who are close to you, the members of your family who keep listening about you everyday, will they be attracted to you or not? They will be. They will also accept your versions. Until then it is your examination. Go on clearing the karmic accounts of 63 births happily. If someone takes a loan from someone, then should he repay the loan happily or should he make a hue and cry of it? Repay it joyfully.

Time: 34.25-35.47
Student: Baba, there will not be any night in the Golden Age, then what will the deities do all the time over there?

Baba: They will play, they will dance, they will sing, they will draw and paint. If there is no body consciousness in you, will there be any need for you to sleep? There is no need at all. Enjoy 24 hours.
Student: Baba, will there be hours in the time cycle? Will hours be valid (in the Golden Age)?
Baba: Calculation of time takes place in the world of intellectuals. Are deities stupid or are they intellectuals? They are stupid. There is no need for them to calculate time, what will happen in future; what happened in the past? They just live in happiness in their present . If our intellect becomes like this here as well, that we live happily in our present, if we think neither about the future nor about whatever happened in the past; do we experience sorrow or joy by thinking about the past? We experience more sorrow. Sorrow emerges even when we think of what is going to happen in future. So, it is good; the intellect of deities (who live happily in their present) is better.

Time: 36.10-36.55
Student: Baba, when a child is born in the house of Muslims; a few years later, he undergoes circumcision. So, how does its shooting take place in an unlimited sense?

Baba: Among Muslims?
Student: Yes, in Muslim religion, the (skin over the) penis of small children is cut a little.
Baba: Yes, so here too, it has been said in the Murli that whoever commits sins with whichever organs of action; sin means giving sorrow to anyone. What? They give sorrow through the organs of action, don’t they? Instead of giving happiness, instead of giving love, what do they do? They give sorrow; their organs will be cut. So, those who are going to convert to the Muslim religion, their organs will also be cut; they will also feel like this. So, those organs are cut in the Muslim religion.

Time: 40.20
Student: Baba, in the path of devotion, a few days after someone’s dead body is cremated, heads of the family members are tonsured.

Baba: What is done?
Student: Their heads are shaved off, they are tonsured.
Baba: Yes.
Student: So, what is its connection in an unlimited sense?
Baba: Even here, when people die in an unlimited sense…, will they not? They will die of body consciousness while being alive, will they not? So, only those souls will die of body consciousness while being alive, who surrender their body, wealth, mind, everything. It means, just as Maya tonsures our head, similarly Shankarji shaves off our head completely. This is why when people go to the temple of Tirupati (a place in Andhra Pradesh famous for its temple), especially when someone dies, they go there to get their heads tonsured. If someone dies in a family, then they especially go there to get their heads tonsured. Even now Baba has said, if you follow the knowledge alone, then will the one who is following the knowledge die first or will any other person die first? He (i.e. the one who follows the knowledge) will die first; then, the members of his family will also have to get their heads tonsured. (It means that) they will have to sacrifice everything including the body, mind, wealth, time, contacts, and property. (Concluded)........................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 18 Jan 2010

Disc.CD No.452, dated 25.11.07 at Tamaspura, Jhajjar (Haryana)

Time: 0.02-6.30
Student: The question is that there was a brother who was Arya Samaji. So, Baba, he had a literature published. In that literature .... earlier he worked in basic (knowledge); later on he left from there and wrote such things about Brahmakumaris and Dada Lekhraj in the literature which I did not like. So, were the issues written by him true? According to my understanding his point of view was wrong. (I thought) it is not right, he has written wrong things. I want to take your opinion whether any such thing happened anytime in the year (19)36 or (19)40 at Mt. Abu or in Karachi due to which such things were spoken about. I have received (a copy of) that book.

Baba: Look, we have understood how many main religions are spread in the world. How many religions are there in the tree in total? Hum? There are ten religions which have spread (in the world). Out of the ten religions, 9 are such that they believe in God, the Supreme Soul. The atheist (naastik) religion is such that it does not believe in God, in soul, in the Supreme Soul, in heaven, in hell. Leave it aside. So, among the people of nine religions who believe in God, which one is of the lowest category? Arya Samajis. Will the one which is of a lower category narrate knowledge or will he defame?
Student: He will defame.
Baba: Even in the basic knowledge, nice souls selected from every religion in the entire world entered the basic knowledge because it is the Hindus themselves who had converted to other religions. The same children who converted to other religions were selected by God and placed at which place? In the basic (knowledge). Well, in that basic knowledge there were nine kinds of children. There were the highest Suryavanshis (those belonging to the Sun dynasty) also. And the lowest Arya Samajis were also there. So, will the Arya Samajis of the outside world oppose those Brahmins or not? They will. So, they did. Even in the basic knowledge it was the Arya Samajis who opposed more. They defamed a lot. Similarly, there were souls of all the religions within the basic knowledge. There were Suryavanishis in the beginning, too. Those Suryavanshis departed early. They take rebirth and come. And souls of the remaining religions are now present in the basic knowledge.

Gradually, the seeds of other religions start coming in advance. So, who will oppose those belonging to the advance (party) as well? Only the Arya Samajis can do that. Will the Arya Samajis of the outside world oppose more or will the Arya Samajis within the world of Brahmins oppose more? The Arya Samajis within the world of Brahmins (will oppose more). This is why, who was the Arya Samaji to get the maximum literature published in the Yagya? Jagdish Bhai. Jagdish Bhai strictly opposed whatever knowledge that emerged from the Advance Party. And while opposing it, he gave training to all the Brahmakumaris about how they (i.e. those belonging to the Advance Party) could be opposed. How to propagate the criticism (vitandavaad) that this is not Godly knowledge. This is the knowledge created through the opinion of someone’s mind. This happens anyways.

The worldly AryaSamajis opposed the basic Brahmins (i.e. BKs). And the Aryasamajis within the basic (knowledge) opposed the Brahmins of the Advance (Party). Perhaps you don’t know that Jagdish Bhai was earlier a staunch Arya Samaji. He was a headmaster of a Primary School. So, to which religion does a person who was an Arya Samaji in his last birth, firmly belong to? He belongs to Arya Samaj only. He was bound to oppose. The opposition of truth by the Arya Samajis is a very old issue. In addition, even now the progeny of the Arya Samajis, which is called the Congress Government, who do not have (special) consideration (apeksha) for any religion (dharma), whose rule is secular (dharma nirpeksha), will oppose even more strictly in future because the power is in their hands. ‘Prabhuta paahi, kahi mad naahi’ (meaning) the one who attains sovereignty, (the one who) achieves the throne, (the one who) acquires power, (the one who) finds the treasure of wealth, his intellect spoils. They will not see , what is Godly power. They keep doing opposite things on the basis of their power.

Time: 6.32-8.23
Student: Baba, it has been said in a Murli that he was a village lad, he used to take goats for grazing and used to sell foodgrains; about whom has this been mentioned?

Baba: As regards the person who used to sell food grains, it is about Brahma Baba and as regards the village lad, it was not Brahma Baba. He was from Sindh Hyderabad.
Student: And what about the issue, ‘he used to take goats for grazing’?
Baba: Yes, he used to take goats for grazing; that was also about Brahma Baba. Don’t people take goats for grazing in the cities? He took goats for grazing in his childhood as well as when he reached his old age, he became sixty years old, even after that did he reared cows or did he take goats for grazing? Are beautiful cows shown in the premises of Krishna or are goats depicted? (Everyone said – cows.) Are there cows or goats in Ajmer Shaif (a tourist center in Rajasthan famous for a Muslim Sufi shrine and Brahma’s temple)? (Everyone said – goats). Whose temple exists in Ajmer Sharif as a memorial? (Someone said – Brahma’s temple.) Why? It is because Ajmer is a country of sheep and goats. Whose fair is organized there, is it of Hindus or of Muslims? A very big fair of Muslims is organized there. That memorial is built there. People going there from outside do not worship Brahma. Those who live inside, within the temple, only those priests worship the idol. Otherwise, none of the outsiders consider Brahma to be God. Similar is the case with Mount Abu. The world cannot accept Brahma as God. Only those who live inside have been accepting Brahma as God.
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation

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