Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 20 Feb 2010

वार्तालाप नं.466, लखनऊ, दिनांक 17.12.07

समयः 01.02.03-01.03.32
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, ये जितना भी पुरुषार्थ चल रहा है, चाहे बेसिक का हो चाहे एडवांस का हो इसमें सूक्ष्म शरीरधारी आत्माओं का भी पूर्ण योगदान है। वो शिव पिता से मिलाने के निमित्त भी बनती है और....

बाबा: निमित्त साकार को कहा जाता है।
जिज्ञासु: तो प्रवेश करके अगर वो उमंग उत्साह बढ़ाती है तो...
बाबा: जब ज्ञान बुद्धि में उनको बैठेगा तो उमंग-उत्साह बढ़ायेंगे या जितना-2 ज्ञान का पॉईंट उनके बुद्धि में बैठता जायेगा उतनी-2 उमंग-उत्साह बढ़ाते जायेंगे। नहीं बैठेगा तो उनके पहले के जो नजदीक वाले हैं उनको उमंग-उत्साह बढ़ायेंगे। क्या? नहीं समझ में आया? मानलो कुमारिका दादी है। कुमारिका दादी ने शरीर छोड़ दिया और शरीर छोड़ने के बाद वो अपने ग्रुप के इस्लाम धर्म की बीजरूप आत्मा में प्रवेश करे तो जितना-2 एडवांस नॉलेज समझती जावेंगी उतना ही इंस्पायर करेंगी, उमंग-उत्साह देंगी बीजरूप आत्माओं को। उनको उमंग-उत्साह नहीं देंगी तब तक वो जो जड़ों वाले हैं जिनको अभी तक सहयोग सम्पर्क रहा, उनको देंगी।

समयः 01.03.35-01.05.25
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, ये जो पेड़, पौधे होते हैं उनकी आत्मा होती है क्या?

बाबा: क्यों नहीं होती है? होती है तब तो, कोई पेड़ है, पेड़ की एक जड़ काटो तो ऊपर का एक हिस्सा सूख जाता है। कैसे सूख जाता है? अगर आत्मा नहीं है तो पेड़ की जो जड़ नीचे काटी गई, ऊपर क्यों सूख जाता है वो हिस्सा?
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, पेड़ को काटा जायेगा तो उसमें पाप तो नहीं लगेगा ना?
बाबा: एक मनुष्य की हत्या की जाए और एक मछली की हत्या की जाये, बराबर हत्या का पाप लगेगा? (किसी ने कहा – नहीं।) फिर? मछलियों को सबको मार दिया और मनुष्यों को जिन्दा कर लिया, उनकी भूख मिटा दी। तो पाप ज्यादा चढ़ा या पुण्य ज्यादा बना? पुण्य ज्यादा बना। क्योंकि मनुष्य भगवान के ज्यादा नजदीक है और जड़त्वमयी बुद्धि वाले प्राणी मनुष्यों पर निर्भर है। मनुष्यों का वायब्रेशन जब सुधरेगा तब वो प्राणी सुधरेंगे।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, ये पेड़ भी जड़ बुद्धि है?
बाबा: जड़त्वमई बुद्धि है। उनको भी तो सुख-दु:ख अनुभव होता है या नहीं होता है? उनको अच्छा भोजन दो, लैलाहा जायेगा, उसकी जड़ काट दो, कुम्हला जायेगा।
जिज्ञासु: वो तो निर्जीव है ना बाबा?
बाबा: निर्जीव है तो ये बढ़ता-पड़ता कैसे हैं? जड़त्वमई बुद्धि है।

Disc.CD No.466, dated 17.12.07 at Lucknow

Time: 01.02.03-01.03.22
Student: Baba, whatever purusharth is going on, whether it is of [those of] basic [knowledge] or advance [knowledge], it has a complete contribution of the subtle bodied souls also. They also become instruments in enabling the meeting with the Father Shiv and…..

Baba: The corporeal one is called instrument.
Student: So, if they increase the zeal and enthusiasm by entering [ someone] then…
Baba: When the knowledge sits in their intellect, they will increase the zeal and enthusiasm or else the more the points of knowledge sit in their intellect, the more they will continue to increase the zeal and enthusiasm. If it does not sit, they will first increase the zeal and enthusiasm of those close to them. What? Did you not understand? Suppose it is Kumarka Dadi. Kumarka Dadi left her body and after leaving her body, when she enters the seed-form soul of her group of Islam, the more she goes on understanding the advance knowledge, the more she will inspire, the more she will increase the zeal and enthusiasm of the seed-form souls. As long as she does not give them (the seed-form soul) zeal and enthusiasm, she will increase the zeal and enthusiasm of the root souls whom she had been helping, with whom she had been having contact so far.

Time: 01.03.35-01.05.25
Student: Baba, do the trees and plants have souls?

Baba: Why not? They do have; only then [it happens that] when you cut one root of a tree, one of its upper portions dries. How does it dry? If there is no soul, then why does the upper portion of the tree dry when one of its roots below is cut-off?
Student: Baba, we will not accumulate sin if we cut a tree, will we?
Baba: Will we accumulate equal sins if we kill a human being [on one hand] and if we kill a fish [on the other hand]? (Someone said: no). Then? If you killed all the fishes to give life to the human beings, to satiate their hunger, did you accumulate more sins or more charity? You accumulated more charity because human beings are closer to God and the living beings with non-living intellects are dependent on the human beings. When the vibrations of the human beings improve, those beings will improve.
Student: Baba, do the trees have a non-living intellect as well?
Baba: They have a non-living intellect. Do they also feel happiness and sorrow or not? If you give them good food (i.e. manure) they will flourish; if you cut their roots, they will wither.
Student: Baba, they are lifeless, aren’t they?
Baba: If they are lifeless, how do they grow? They have an inert intellect....(concluded)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 26 Feb 2010

Disc.CD No.741, dated 9.4.09 at Fertilizer City, Part-2

Time: 6.52-08.00
Student: Baba, 'paanch pyare' (five dear ones) are famous in Sikhism.

Baba: Yes, aren’t the five Pandavas famous in Hinduism?
Student: Baba, it is there.
Baba: So, similarly, paanch pyare (five dear ones) are famous in Sikhism. Those who are personifications of sacrifice, they themselves become the five dear ones.
Student: Baba, what is the difference between the eight deities (ashta dev) and the five dear ones?
Baba: The first five religions are the five dear ones. Among them the two main ones are [from] the Sun Dynasty (Suryavansh) and the Moon Dynasty (Chandravansh) and the remaining three are [from] the Islam dynasty, the Buddhist dynasty and the Christian dynasty. These are the five dear ones.

Time: 08.05-11.31
Student: Baba, in Brahmins' terminology, we can divide the vibrations into three categories, can’t we? Vibrations of the mind, vibrations of the words, vibrations of the actions, can’t we [do so]?

Baba: Vibrations are created through the mind. Vibrations are not created through the words. They are damaged [through words].
Student: But whatever has to come in words, first of all it comes in the mind.
Baba: Although it emerges [in the intellect], when it is expressed as words, the vibrations are spoilt.
Student: And the service through actions which we perform by remaining silent, some soul also receives inspiration on seeing that [and think] we also should do some service of Baba; [then] can that be included in [service through] vibrations too?
Baba: Whatever actions we perform, if the mind is not focused, the vibrations will definitely spoil. The organs of action (karmendriya) have a lower stage and the sense organs (gyanendriya) have a higher stage, and the mind has a stage higher than both of them. When children like Radha and Krishna can be born through the power of the mind, what cannot be possible through vibrations?
Student: Baba, this is the point that I wanted to ask as to how can the children be born through vibrations and what kind of vibrations will it be?

Baba: There will not be any name and trace of body in the remembrance. There will not be any name and trace of attraction of bodily organs of action. This is why, in the picture of Lakshmi-Narayan…........the picture of Lakshmi-Narayan has been depicted. Have they been shown to be attracted towards each other?
Student: No.
Baba: They are standing close to each other, yet there is no attraction of the organs between them. And what about Radha and Krishna of the Golden Age? The righteous organs among all the organs, are the sense organs and the righteous organs among the sense organs, are the eyes, and those souls are unable to keep themselves beyond the attraction of eyes. This is why the main soul among them, i.e. the soul of Krishna is included in the list of the religious gurus. It is unable to attain the incorporeal stage like the Father but the soul of Ram attains the incorporeal stage like the Father Shiv. The greed of pleasure of attraction of no organ can attract him (the soul of Ram). He attains such a stage in the end.

Time: 11.35-12.27
Student: Baba, when children grow up in the outside world (lokik world), the parents look for a match for them and arrange their marriage. So, in our alokik world, in the unlimited world, how do the unlimited parents make a match for their sons and daughters?

Baba: Do children grow up here on the basis of purusharth (special effort for the soul) made by them or on the worldly basis (i.e physical age)?

Student: On the basis of purusharth.
Baba: The purusharth is of four subjects. Knowledge (Gyan), Yoga, inculcation [of virtues] (dhaarna) and service (seva). The children who grow up in making attainments in these four subjects before everyone else, i.e. Lakshmi and Narayan are married off. The world follows them, too. .........(to be continued)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 27 Feb 2010

Disc.CD No.741, dated 9.4.09 at Fertilizer City, Part-2

Time: 12.30-16.11
Student: Baba, the kingdoms of wicked kings face famine; so, what does it mean in an unlimited sense?

Baba: All those who are wicked here, those who perform evil acts, Baba explains everyday: you should not give sorrow to anyone through words or through organs of action. He tells you everyday, doesn't He? And everyone sitting here is going to become a king. They are learning Rajyog. Are they renouncing wicked acts? More than 70 years have passed. Have they stopped becoming evil? So, should they receive the water of knowledge and the food [i.e.] the power of remembrance till the end or not?

If they (kings) do not give up their wickedness, they will have to face famine. They will have to face such a famine that they will not get even a drop of water. What? Now rainfall is experienced at different places. Now, whatever you see through the eyes, whatever you hear through the ears, whatever you touch through the hands, whatever you experience through the organs, those scenes and words come in your memory as well. What will happen in future? Then it has been said, [BapDada] will meet only his children and He will stop meeting those who have not become his children. So, will there be a famine or not? There will be. But even so, there is a condition of the Father: My children will not die of hunger. So, how many children of the Father will not die of hunger? Those who are not wicked even now , they will they not worry; about what? [They will not worry: ] other people should narrate knowledge to us; they should whisper something in our ears. We should get good quality food, we should get nice things, we should get nice sarees, we should get nice slippers; we should get tooth powder. So, the eight who follow Shrimat will not be affected by famine and the rest will definitely be affected [by famine ] numberwise.

Time: 19.05-19.53
Student: Baba, Baba has said, I have come to show mercy of increasing the sins of the sinful persons in order to destroy the world because you children do not have the power to commit sins to such an extent and the biggest sin among all sins is lust as said by Baba. It leads to greater downfall. But in other words Baba has said that the Father also plays the part of being ever pure . So, how should we understand this? How will He increase the sins of the sinful ones and on the other side He has also said, He is ever pure?

Baba: Is He ever pure in the eyes of the eight or in the eyes of the sinful ones?
Student: In the eyes of the eight.
Baba: You got the answer. He will increase the sins of the sinful ones.
Student: Baba, cannot the list [of those who consider the Father to be ever pure] include more than eight?
Baba: Take your number.

Time: 21.44-22.35
Student: Baba, it has been mentioned in Murli that sitting on somebody’s bed is also a theft.

Baba: Yes.
Student: How?
Baba: Aren’t we coloured by the company? Can the bed contain someone's dirt or not? So, cannot his vibrations attack? It can.
Student: Baba, when we go for service, we go by train…. we have to travel in the general coach [of the train], we are touched by impure souls unknowingly, we are coloured by their company; will that be called impurity or not?
Baba: So, travel by reservation, cannot you?
Student: But Baba , more service should be done with less expenditure’ (kam kharch baala nashin)...... when we go for service by reservation, we have to pay more charges . That is why, going in general [coach]......
Baba: So, travel in Baba's remembrance, cannot you?

Time: 23.36-25.24
Student: Baba, the [people of the] Brahmin clan in the path of Bhakti (devotion) perform the unclean tasks, like getting their hair cut, cutting their nails by seeing the day and date and then they take bath. So, should we follow this is our Brahmin life or not? For example, these tasks should not be performed on Thursdays, Tuesdays, and Mondays because these days are memorials of we Brahmin souls who are righteous souls.

Baba: Who created these [practice of considering] Tuesdays, Wednesdays?
Student: The human beings. So, to follow this is called the path of Bhakti, is not it?
Baba: Yes.
Student: And Baba, should we take bath after performing these tasks or not? We should definitely bathe after defeacating. But should we do all this (bath) after a haircut or after shave because the Brahmins of the outside world have a lot of faith on these things and they also oppose [if the above practice of bathing is not followed].
Baba: The external purity is not as important as the inner purity. Now we are in a stage of being Brahmins. The thoughts of Brahmins have a great importance. The food of thoughts should be very pure. The Vaishnavites of the [outside] world also practice a lot of external purity. They practice external purity to such an extent than even today’s Brahmins don’t practice it so much. But they do not transform from impure ones to pure ones........(to be continued)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 28 Feb 2010

Disc.CD No.741, dated 9.4.09 at Fertilizer City, Part-2

Time: 39.27-41.51
Student: Baba, it has been said in Murli that if someone comes to the class, sits in the front and dozes off , a time will come that he will be made to sit at the back.

Baba: Yes, is it not happening at present that even while sitting in front of the Father they ....(doze off). The Father is looking at them even while they are looking [at Him] . Is it not happening now? Is it or is it not? It is.
Student: Baba, what about those souls who leave the class and go before Baba ends his class - do they give regard or do they disregard Baba?
Baba: Some students seek permission before leaving and some students leave without seeking permission. So, it amounts to disregard.
Student: Baba, those who leave [the class] should sit at the backside. When they sit in the front all those who are sitting, see them [leaving]. If one person departs, others will leave after him.
Baba: It is correct. If someone is sitting in the front and if he gets up and leaves, then those at the back will also think, we too should do the same . Others will also act like us by observing us. This is why, we should not perform any such action that others would follow seeing us. So, it is better if they sit at the back side. And they can raise their hand; give an indication to Baba and leave.
Student: Baba, the ones who doze should wash their face and sit.
Baba: Will they not doze after that?
Student: They do doze [even after washing their face].
Baba: Baba says that keep some mustard oil in a dropper with you. Whenever you doze off, put half a drop of it in one of the eyes.

Time: 47.10-48.03
Student: Baba says that if someone has love for Baba, he should have love for the Brahmin family, doesn’t he? Those who do not have connection with the Brahmin family, and do not attend the class for a month or two months or three months, those who don’t attend the sangathan class (gathering) either, should they be informed about Baba’s arrival or not ? They do not have any connection.

Baba: Baba says that those who do not even write a letter for two months are considered to be dead in Baba’s eyes.
Student: They think that they have a connection with Baba. Where is the need to have a connection with the family.
Baba: It does not happen like that. The one who loves the Father, he/she will love the Father's family as well.

Time: 48.15
Student: Baba, since the Copper Age, the soul of Ram is born as a male in two consecutive births and the soul of Sita is born as a female in two consecutive births. In the world of Brahmins, the birth of the soul of Prajapita before 36 and his present birth, will they be said to be one? Before that, meaning before the birth in 1876, there was a birth in 1857, as Bahadur Shah Zafar, who was instrumental in bringing an end to the Mughal dynasty, whom Baba calls Rangeela. Immediately after that Baba was born as Sevakram, in 1876. After that, when he left his body in 1942, he was born as a male again. So here we have three births in the form of male, so can we say that the birth in 1876 and in 1942 is only one birth?

Baba: Can a soul not die in the womb? So will you not count it? Or can’t [a soul] leave its body immediately after being born? (Someone said: after one or two years) Not one or two years but one or two days.

Time: 55.30-57.14
Student: Baba, what is meant by ' the Gangasagar fair takes place once and other fairs take place a hundred times'?

Baba: Other rivers join Ganga (the river Ganges). They join, don't they? Whether it is [river] Gomti, Ghaghra, Yamuna; which river do they join? They come and join Ganga and the river Ganga comes and joins [the river] Brahmaputra. Then what name does Brahmaputra acquire? Brahmaputra comes from the East and Ganges comes from the west. When both of them merge to become one, what name does it acquire? Does the name remain as Ganga or as Brahmaputra? The name remains as Ganga. And when Ganga meets the ocean, it is called the meeting of Ganga [and] sagar (ocean) . All the rivers go and merge with the ocean only. This is why, that fair is the biggest fair, where all the rivers go and merge with the ocean.

Time: 57.50-59.35
Student: Baba, in a clarification given by Baba [it is said] that among the 16,108 (souls) half of them (8000) are those who leave their bodies and the bodies of the other half (8000) will remain [intact]. The souls who leave their bodies, among the 16,108 souls are souls like Dada Lekhraj and Om Radhey , aren’t they?

Baba: Yes.
Student: So, if we see, is it so that only eight thousand [souls] make purusharth through their bodies and become part of the royal family.
Baba: The rosary will be prepared through the combination of the Suryavanshis (those of the Sun dynasty) and the Chandravanshis (those of the Moon dynasty). The rosary of the 108 is prepared by the combination of the Rudramala (the rosary of Rudra) and the Vijaymala (the rosary of victory), Suryavanshis and Chandravanshis. And who prepares the rosary of 16,108? The Father prepares the rosary of 108 . Does anyone else prepare it? The Father prepares it. Who prepares the rosary of 16,108?
Student: These 108 (souls).
Baba: No. The Sanyasis prepare it. What? That is not a righteous rosary. That is a third class rosary. It includes many who will become servants and maids (daas-daasi). Those who become kings are just 108. What will all the others become? They will become servants and maids.(concluded)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 01 Mar 2010

वार्तालाप नं.468, डैंटल, दिनांक 23.12.07

समयः 00.11-05.00
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, ये तीन दुनिया है। एक तो साढ़े पाँचसौ करोड़ की दुनिया, दूसरा है बेसिक वालों की दुनिया, तीसरा है एडवांस वालों की दुनिया। तो बाबा जब एडवांस वाले पर्फेक्ट बन जाते हैं तो बेसिक की दुनिया का विनाश हो जाता है, पुरानी दुनिया। फिर बोला है शक्तियाँ ही विनाश के निमित्त बनती हैं...।

बाबा: एडवांस वाले पर्फेक्ट बन जाते हैं तो दुनिया का विनाश हो जाता है?
जिज्ञासु: नहीं, बेसिक की दुनिया का।
बाबा: बेसिक की दुनिया का विनाश हो जाता है? 76 से पहले एडवांस वाले थे क्या?
जिज्ञासु: नहीं थे।
बाबा: लेकिन बाबा ने तो बोला सन् 76 में विनाश हो जावेगा। फिर? उस समय एडवांस वाले तो थे नहीं।
जिज्ञासु: विनाश होने का मतलब कि जैसे एडवांस में कंवर्ट हो जाना। मेरे कहने का भाव बाबा ऐसा है। तो ये बोला है कि शक्तियाँ ही विनाश करने के निमित्त बनती हैं। तो शक्तियों से ... बापदादा से जैसे कनेक्शन टूट जाता है तो एडवांस की दुनिया से बच्चे जैसे बिखर जाते हैं। जो जिस धर्म का है वो उस धर्म में चला जाता है और एक है कि 500 करोड़ की दुनिया का विनाश जैसे शंकर करता है, वो तो वैज्ञानिक आत्माओं में प्रवेश करके विनाश कराता है। तो बाबा हम इसको सिस्टम से जानना चाहते है।
बाबा: विनाश का ही सिस्टम से क्यों जानना चाहते हैं, स्थापना का क्यों नहीं?
जिज्ञासु: हर बात सिस्टम से।
बाबा: माना बापदादा सिस्टम से पढ़ाई नहीं पढ़ा रहा है?
जिज्ञासु: बाबा तो पढ़ा रहे है लेकिन आत्माओं की जैसी बुद्धि है उतना तक समझती है। बाबा को बार-2 बुद्धि में डालना पड़ता है।
बाबा: क्या बात नहीं समझते हैं?
जिज्ञासु: यही बाबा विनाश वाली बात। ...
बाबा: चाहे विनाश की बात हो, चाहे स्थापना की बात हो, चाहे पालना की बात हो; हरेक बात का फाउंडेशन तो संकल्प से शुरु होता है। तीन मूर्तियाँ हैं तो तीन तरह के फॉलोवर्स भी हैं। कोई स्थापनाकारी है, कोई विनाशकारी है, कोई पालना करने वाले विशेष हैं। अब जो जैसा कार्य करने वाले हैं, उनके संकल्प भी उसी प्रकार के विशेष होते हैं, संकल्पों का फाउंडेशन ही वैसा होता है। तो सारी बात संकल्पों के बीज के ऊपर आती है। जैसा बीज बोयेंगे वैसी सृष्टि बनेगी। देखना ये है कि ज्यादा फायदा किसमें हैं? स्थापना में फायदा है, पालना में फायदा है या विनाश में फायदा है? एक है कंस्ट्रक्शन करना, एक है डिस्ट्रक्शन करना और एक है पालना करना। ज्यादा महत्व किसको देना चाहिए?
जिज्ञासु: पालना करने को।
बाबा: हम पालना करेंगे तो प्रभु हमारी पालना करेगा। पालना करने के लिए जो माता का स्वभाव होता है, संस्कार होता है सहन करने का, अखण्ड प्यार देने का वो भी चाहिए। जब स्थापना पूरी होती है तो विनाश तो स्वतः ही होता है। ऐसा हो नहीं सकता कि स्थापना हो जाए और विनाश न हो। तो कंस्ट्रक्टिव रहना अच्छा है या डिस्ट्रक्शन का सोचना अच्छा है? कंस्ट्रक्शन करना अच्छा है। बनाने वालों की लिस्ट में हैं, कुछ भी बिगाड़ने वालों की लिस्ट में नहीं है।

समयः 05.05-07.45
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, आज के अव्यक्त वाणी में बोला कि अमेरिका और लंडन पिकनिक स्पॉट बन जायेंगे विनाश के बाद। तो स्वर्ग में इतने दूर 10-20 हजार किलोमिटर पिकनिक मनाने कौन जाता होगा?

बाबा: बाबा जो भी लक्ष्य देते हैं ब्राह्मणों को, वो कृष्ण के जन्म से लेकरके लक्ष्य देते हैं या कृष्ण के जन्म से पहले का लक्ष्य देते हैं? हें?
जिज्ञासु- जन्म के बाद का।
बाबा: जन्म के बाद का लक्ष्य देते हैं? माने हमारे जीवन का जो लक्ष्य है वो कृष्ण का जन्म लेने से लेकर है? माने मम्मा, बाबा या कृष्ण और राधा की आत्मायें जो पुरुषार्थ करती हैं वहाँ तक हमारे जीवन का लक्ष्य सीमित है? या उससे आगे हैं? राधा कृष्ण जो जन्म लेंगे वो हमारे जीवन का लक्ष्य नहीं है। वो तो बेसिक नॉलेज तक सीमित है।

हमारे जीवन का लक्ष्य है नर से नारायण बनने का। तो वो संगमयुग का लक्ष्य है या सतयुग का, स्वर्ग का लक्ष्य है? संगम का लक्ष्य है। तो जो बाबा लक्ष्य देते हैं ऊँचे ते ऊँचा, स्वर्णिम पुरुषोत्तम युग। उसमें तीनों मूर्तियों का पार्ट है; ऐसे नहीं स्थापना का ही पार्ट है या विनाश का ही पार्ट है। नहीं। स्वर्णिम संगठन जो तैयार होगा उसकी पालना का भी पार्ट है। उसके लिए बताया कि पहले तो दक्षिण भारत है, वो भारत का क्या है? विदेश है। वो पिकनिक के स्थान बन जावेंगे। बाद में दुनिया के लिए भी होगा। स्वर्ग की बात नहीं है - पिकनिक स्थान बनेंगे लंडन और अमेरिका। वहाँ तो होंगे ही नहीं ये धर्म खण्ड। होंगे? ( किसी ने कहा: नहीं होंगे।) वो तो गर्त में समा जावेंगे।

समयः 07.50-09.58
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, 33 करोड़ देवताओं का गायन आता है। जो सतयुग है उसमें तो 2 करोड़ देवतायें होते हैं और त्रेता में तो क्षत्रिय होते हैं, द्वापर में वैश्य और जो शूद्र होते है कलियुग में तो 33 करोड़ देवताओं की जो गिनती है वो कैसे होती है?

बाबा: कोई भी धर्म की आत्मायें हो, जब उतरना शुरु होती हैं तो आदि से ले करके और कलियुग के अंत तक उतरती ही रहती हैं और देवी-देवता सनातन धर्म तो लोप होता ही नहीं है। कि होता है?
जिज्ञासु: नहीं होता है।
बाबा: और धर्म की भी आत्मायें उतरती रहती हैं, वो भी अंत तक उतरती हैं। तो देवता धर्म की आत्माओं का उतरना कैसे बन्द हो जावेगा? हाँ, उसमें भी कैटागरीज़ (Categories) है। कोई सतयुग के देवतायें हैं, 16 कला सम्पूर्ण बनने वाली आत्मायें हैं, 14 कला तक सीमित हैं वो सब देवतायें हैं। कोई क्षत्रिय हैं। वो 8 कला तक सीमित है 14 कला से लेकर। वो सेमी-देवतायें उतरते रहते हैं त्रेता के अंत तक। लेकिन दुनिया की हर चीज 4 अवस्थाओं से पसार होती है, तो देवता धर्म 4 अवस्थाओं से पसार नहीं होता है क्या? उसकी भी रजोप्रधान आत्मायें परमधाम से उतरती रहती हैं। फिर तमोप्रधान आत्मायें भी देवता धर्म में हैं जो कलियुग के अंत में उतरती हैं।
जिज्ञासु: कलियुग के अंत में जो देवता धर्म की तमोप्रधान आत्मा होगी वो तो इस धरा पर सतोप्रधान बनके उतरेगी...
बाबा: दुनिया के सामने भी सात्विक स्टेज में होंगे।
जिज्ञासु: सतयुग के अपेक्षा वो तमोप्रधान है?
बाबा: सतयुग के अपेक्षा तमोप्रधान है लेकिन दुनिया के मुकाबले तो सतोप्रधान है।

Disc.CD No.468, dated 23.12.07 at Dental

Time: 00.11-05.00
Student: Baba, there are Three Worlds. One is a world of five hundred and fifty crores (5.5 billion); second is the world of the followers of basic knowledge and the third is the world of the followers of advance knowledge. So, Baba, when those who follow the advance knowledge become perfect, the world of the basic knowledge, i.e. the old world is destroyed [for them]. Then it has been said that the shaktis (consort of Shiv) themselves become instrumental in destruction…...

Baba: Does the destruction of world take place when those who follow the advance knowledge become perfect?
Student: No, the [destruction of the] world of those who follow the basic knowledge takes place.
Baba: Is the world of those who follow the basic knowledge destroyed? Prior to [19]76, were there people who followed the advance knowledge?

Student: No, they were not there.
Baba: But Baba has said that destruction will take place in the year 76. Then? At that time the followers of the advance knowledge were not present.
Student: Destruction means to convert into advance [party]. Baba, this is what I mean to say. So, it has been said that it is the shaktis themselves become instrumental for destruction. So, by the shaktis ...…if the connection with BapDada breaks, then it is as if the children from the world of advance are disintegrated. Whoever belongs to whichever religion goes to that religion and one thing is when Shankar causes the destruction of the world of 500 crore (5 billion) [people], he causes destruction by entering in the souls of scientists. So, Baba I want to know this systematically.
Baba: Why do you want to know systematically only about the destruction , why not of establishment?
Student: everything systematically.
Baba: Does it mean BapDada is not teaching the knowledge systematically?
Student: Baba is teaching, but the souls understand according to the capacity of their intellect. Baba has to put it in the intellect again and again.
Baba: What do they not understand?
Student: Baba this very topic of destruction….
Baba: Whether it is about the destruction or about the establishment or about the sustenance, the foundation for everything begins with thoughts. When there are three personalities (murtis), there are three kinds of followers as well. Some are constructive, some are destructive and some are especially the ones who give sustenance. Well, whatever kind of task someone performs, their thoughts are also especially of that kind. Their very foundation of thoughts is like that. So, everything depends on the seed of thoughts. As is the seed you sow, so shall be the creation. You should see , what will give more benefit . Is there benefit in establishment, in sustenance or in destruction? One thing is to do construction, second thing is to cause destruction and the third is to give sustenance. What should be given more importance?
Student: To sustenance.
Baba: If we give sustenance, then God will sustain us. In order to give sustenance, the nature, the sanskar of tolerance, the sanskar of giving constant love found in the mothers is required. When establishment is over, the destruction takes place automatically. It is not possible that destruction won’t happen even after the establishment is over. So, is it better to be constructive or [is it good] to think of destruction? It is better to undertake construction. We are in the list of builders; not in the list of destroying anything.

Time: 05.05-07.45
Student: Baba, it has been said in today’s Avyakt Vani that America and London will become picnic spots after the destruction. So, who would be going for picnic to such far off spots situated 10-20 thousand kilometers away when in heaven?

Baba: Whatever target Baba sets for the Brahmins, does it pertain to the period after the birth of Krishna or before the birth of Krishna? Hum?
Student: [The aim] for after the birth.
Baba: Does He give the target for the period after the birth [of Krishna]? Does it mean the target of our life is for the period since the birth of Krishna? Does it mean that the goal of our life is limited to the period when the souls of Mama-Baba or Krishna and Radha make purusharth (special effort for the soul) ? Or is it beyond that? The goal of our life is not the birth of Radha and Krishna . That is limited to the basic knowledge.

The goal of our life is to change from a man (nar) to Narayan. So, is it a target of the Confluence Age or of the Golden Age, of heaven? The goal is of the Confluence Age. So, the highest goal of the golden elevated Age (swarnim purushottam yug) which Baba sets; there is a part of the three personalities in it; it is not as if there is a part of establishment only or of destruction only. No. There is also a part of sustenance of the golden gathering which will be ready. For that it has been said; what is South India in relation to India? It is [like] a foreign country. Those places will become picnic spots. Later on, it will be applicable to the [outside] world as well. It is not about heaven [that] London and America will become picnic spots there. These religious lands will not exist at all there [in the Golden Age]. Will they exist? ( Someone said – No). They will submerge [under the ocean].

Time: 07.50-09.58
Student: Baba, there is the praise of 33 crore (330 million) deities . There are 2 crore (20 million) deities in the Golden Age and there are Kshatriyas (warriors) in the Silver Age; there are Vaishyas in the Copper Age and Shudras in the Iron Age; so, how does it make to the count of 33 crore deities?

Baba: Be it the souls of any religion, once they start descending [from the Soul World], they keep descending from the beginning to the end of the Iron Age and the Ancient Deity religion (Devi-devta Sanatan dharm) does not disappear at all. Or does it?
Student: It doesn’t.
Baba: Souls of other religions also keep descending; they too keep descending till the end. So, how will the descent of the souls of the Deity religion stop? Yes, there are categories among them too. Some are deities of the Golden Age, who become complete with 16 celestial degrees; some are limited to 14 celestial degrees; all of them are deities. Some are Kshatriyas, who are limited to the range of 14 to 8 celestial degrees. Those semi-deities continue to descend till the end of the Silver Age. But every thing in the world passes through 4 stages; so, doesn’t the Deity Religion pass through four stages? The rajopradhan souls (dominated by the quality of activity or passion) of that (the Deity Religion) also continue to descend from the Supreme Abode (Paramdham). Then there are tamopradhan souls (dominated by the quality of darkness or ignorance) also of Deity religion, who descend in the end of the Iron Age.
Student: In the end of the Iron Age, the tamopradhan soul of the Deity Religion will descend on this Earth in a satopradhan stage (consisting mainly in the quality of goodness and purity)....
Baba: Even in front of the world, they will be in a pure (satwik) stage.
Student: Are they tamopradhan when compared to the [souls of the] Golden Age?
Baba: They are tamopradhan when compared to the [souls of the] Golden Age, but when compared to the world [in the Iron Age], they are satopradhan.......(to be continued)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 02 Mar 2010

वार्तालाप नं.468, डैंटल, दिनांक 23.12.07

समयः 10.01-11.35
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, जो भी धर्मपितायें आना शुरू होते हैं ऊपर से, उनकी कलायें कितनी होती है?

बाबा: कलायें? चन्द्रमाँ की कलायें अलग-2 होती है क्या? मिजरमेंट (Measurement) है रोशनी का। ऐसे ही आत्मा की शक्ति का मिज़रमेंट है। या 16 कला, या 14 कला, या 8 कला, या कलाहीन। वो कलायें अलग-2 थोड़े ही है कोई। आत्मा की शक्ति का नाम है कला। आत्मा की पावर, आत्मा की रोशनी।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा उस युग के मुताबिक जो आत्मा ऊपर से नीचे उतरेगी उसमें 16 कला कहा जायेगा। ठीक है बाबा ये?
बाबा: हाँ जी। सृष्टि का सतोप्रधान पीरियड है तो 16 कला से 14 कला तक जब भी है वो सतोप्रधान ही कहा जावेगा।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा कलियुग के लास्ट में भी देवता धर्म की आत्मा उतरती है। तो जिस समय वो इस धरा पर आयेगी तो सतोप्रधान ही होगी?
बाबा: दुनिया के मुकाबले तो सतोप्रधान ही होगी लेकिन जो सतयुग के देवतायें हैं उनके मुकाबले तमोप्रधान है।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, कृष्‍ण की राशि क्राइस्‍ट से ही क्‍यों मिलाई जाती है?
बाबा: जैसे कर्ण और कृष्‍ण की राशि मिलाई जाती है। कर्ण सूर्यपुत्र था और पाण्‍डव किसके पुत्र थे? पण्‍डा के पुत्र थे। पण्‍डा कौन है? वो ही पण्‍डा शिवबाबा, वो ही ज्ञान सूर्य। और कर्ण भी उससे पैदा हुआ। सूर्य से ही तो पैदा हुआ। लेकिन रास्‍ता अलग पकड़ लिया। साथ दिया कौरवों का। पाण्‍डवों ने साथ दिया कृष्‍ण का। भक्‍तों ने समझ लिया है कृष्‍ण का साथ दिया। वास्‍तव में कृष्‍ण का साथ नहीं दिया, किसका दिया? शिवबाबा का साथ दिया। जो पहले पैदा होते है वो ज्‍यादा ताकतवर होते है या बाद में जिनकी पैदाइश होती है वो ज्‍यादा ताकतवर होते है? (सभी ने कहा – जो पहले पैदा होते है।) कर्ण किस कैटे‍गरी में था? उसकी पहले पैदाइश हुई थी। समाज में भले तिरस्कृत था, दासी-पुत्र कहा गया लेकिन शोहरत में, ताकत में और गुणों में बहुत श्रेष्‍ठ था।
जिज्ञासु: दासी-पुत्र कैसे कहा गया, जन्‍म तो कुंती से लिया?
बाबा: क्‍योंकि दास ने पाला। जो सारथी होता है रथ चलाने वाला राजा का, वो दास होता है या अधिकारी होता है? दास होता है। तो सारथी ने उसकी पालना की थी। इसलिए दासी-पुत्र।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, शनिदेव को भी सुर्यपुत्र कहते है। तो अष्‍टदेवों में आता है या अप्‍ष्‍टदेवों से बाहर है वो?
बाबा: जब देवता कहा जाता है तो देवता तो हुआ ना। अष्‍टदेवों में भी तो कोई ऐसे-ऐसे रूप-रूवरूप वाले है ना जो देखने में ही निष्‍कृष्‍ट लगते है। जो भी वार हैं, कितने वार हैं? 7 वार हैं। उनमें आखरी वार कौनसा है? शनिवार।

समयः 14.57-19.30
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, बोले हैं कि कल्प के बाद मैं संगमयुग में आता हूँ। माना 4 युगों के बाद हुआ ना?

बाबा: हाँ।
जिज्ञासु: तो ये जो घड़ी का चित्र दिखाया गया है सृष्टि चक्र में उसमें मिनिट का सुई है कलियुग में दिखाया गया है। ऐसा क्यों है बाबा?
बाबा: कलियुग का हिस्सा एड किया जायेगा ना, तब तो संगम बनेगा। कलियुग का हिस्सा अगर एड ही न किया जाए; स्वर्णिम संगम में अगर कलियुग का अंतिम हिस्सा एड न किया जाए तो संगम कैसे बनेगा?
जिज्ञासु: तो ये बाबा कलियुग और सतयुग के बीच का है ना? तो ना हम इसको कलियुग में कहेंगे...
बाबा: एक्युरेट सतयुग तो तब कहेंगे जब दुनिया का विनाश हो जायेगा। लेकिन विनाश होने से पहले स्वर्णिम संगमयुग की स्थापना हो जायेगी और उससे पहले घोर तमोप्रधान, तामसी स्टेज होगी।
जिज्ञासु: स्वर्णिम युग में बाबा?
बाबा: स्वर्णिम युग से पहले।
जिज्ञासु: तमोप्रधान स्टेज से गुज़र चुके होंगे?
बाबा: जो बीज रूप आत्मायें हैं, जो अष्‍ट देव हैं वो स्वर्णिम संगमयुग में आने से पहले घोर तामसी स्टेज में हैं या नहीं है? (जिज्ञासु: है।) हाँ।
जिज्ञासु: 5000 वर्ष का ड्रामा है ना।
बाबा: हांजी।
जिज्ञासु: तो उसमें संगमयुग तो शुरु हो जाता है बीच से ही, कलियुग तो फिर भी चलता है दुनिया में...
बाबा: एक होता है सामान्य संगमयुग; जैसे आज अव्यक्त वाणी में आया: परमात्म प्यार और परमात्म पार्ट कौनसे युग में मिलता है? सामान्य संगमयुग में या पुरुषोत्तम संगमयुग में? ( किसी ने कहा: स्‍वर्णिम संगमयुग कह लो चाहे पुरुषोत्तम संगमयुग में।) पुरुषोत्तम नहीं। पुरुषोत्तम संगमयुग में भी दोनों हैं। उसका नाम ही है संगम। उसमें स्वर्णिम संगम भी है पुरुषोत्तम संगमयुग में और तामसी स्टेज भी है। क्योंकि जो पुरुषों में उत्तम बनने वाले हैं उनकी सारी रील घूमती है, ताकि वो अपने को भी रियलाईज़ कर सकें कि हमने क्या-2 पार्ट बजाया। रियलायज़ेशन कोर्स तो चल रहा है कि नहीं चल रहा है? हर एक अपने-2 अन्दर देखे।

मुरली में प्रश्न आता है, पहले अपने से पूछो, हम कलियुगी भ्रष्टाचारी हैं या सतयुगी श्रेष्ठाचारी हैं? पतित तमोप्रधान हैं या पावन सतोप्रधान हैं? अपने दिल से पूछो पहले। तो किससे कौन पूछे पहले? पहले ब्राह्मण अपने से पूछें ना, क्या हम स्वर्णिम संगमयुग में प्रवेश कर चुके हैं? कहाँ है? पतित दुनिया में सब पतित ही होंगे। पावन दुनिया में सब पावन ही होंगे। तो हम कहाँ के वासी है? पावन दुनिया के वासी हैं या पतित दुनिया के वासी हैं?
(किसी ने कहा: बीच में हैं।) बीच में हैं? पक्का है? ज्यादा कहां के वासी हैं? ( एक भाई ने कहा: पावन दुनिया के।) माताजी आई कि नहीं? चली गई? हम पूछेंगे अभी माताजी से। (Ironically) पावन दुनिया के वासी हैं।

समयः 19.40-21.17
जिज्ञासुः बाबा कहते हैं कि 5000 वर्ष के बाद मैं आता हूँ... बाबा: मैं आता हूँ – ये कौन बोलता है? शिवबाबा बोलते हैं ना। तो शिवबाबा कहाँ से हैं?

जिज्ञासु: तो 5000 वर्ष के अंदर में ना बोलना चाहिए बाबा...
बाबा: तो कब आता है बताओ? तुम क्या समझते हो कि कब आता है? (किसी ने कहा - 5000 वर्ष के बाद।) नहीं, पहले इनको बताने दो। हाँ, कब आता है? तुम प्रश्न पूछ रहे हो तो तुमने कुछ तो निर्धारित किया होगा ना?
जिज्ञासु : हमें अगर क्लियर रहता तो पूछने की कोई बात ही नहीं होती।
बाबा: तो अब पूछ रहे हो ना? पूछ रहे हो तो तुम्हारे बुद्धि में कुछ तो है। क्या विचार है? तुम्हारे हिसाब से कब आता है?
जिज्ञासु: हमें बाबा क्लीयर पता ही नहीं है तो हम क्या बतायें?
बाबा: तो पूछ कैसे रहे हैं?
जिज्ञासु: तो हम पूछ रहे हैं बाबा कि क्लीयर हमें, थोड़ा डीटेल में हो जाए अच्छी तरह से।
बाबा: तुमने जो पूछा कि शिवबाबा आता है 5000 वर्ष के बाद। तो 5000 वर्ष का बाद तुमने कब समझा? कब हुआ? (किसी ने कहा: 2036 में।) 2036! सुनो! उसमें शिवबाबा कहेंगे? (किसीने कहा: नहीं।) फिर जब कहेंगे ही नहीं शिवबाबा तो आया कहाँ से? बाबा कहा जाता है साकार को और शिव कहा जाता है बिन्दु को। तो जिसे हम शिवबाबा कहते हैं, शिव ज्योति बिन्दु और साकार दोनों का मेल, वो कब आता है? 76 से आता है।

Disc.CD No.468, dated 23.12.07 at Dental

Time: 10.01-11.35
Student: Baba, how many celestial degrees do the religious fathers, who start coming from above (i.e. the Soul World) have?

Baba: Celestial degrees (kalaen)? Are there different celestial degrees of the Moon? It is a measurement of light. Similarly, it is a measurement of the power of the soul. Either it is 16 celestial degrees, 14 celestial degrees or 8 celestial degrees or no celestial degrees. Those celestial degrees are not different. The name of the power of the soul is kala (celestial degree). [It is] soul’s power, soul’s light.
Student: Baba the soul who descends from above will be said to be of 16 celestial degrees as per that Age. Baba, is it correct?
Baba: Yes. When it is the satopradhan period ( consisting mainly in the quality of goodness and purity) of the world, the period from 16 celestial degrees to 14 celestial degrees will be called satopradhan.
Student: Baba, souls of deity religion descend even in the last period of the Iron Age. So, when they come on this Earth, they will indeed be satopradhan, [won’t they]?
Baba: When compared to the world they will certainly be pure, but they will be tamopradhan (dominated by the quality of darkness or ignorance) when compared to the deities of the Golden Age.
Student: Baba, why is the horoscope of Krishna matched only with that of Christ?
Baba: For example, the horoscope of Karna and Krishna is matched. Karna was the son of Sun (Suryaputra) and whose children were the Pandavas? They were the children of Panda. Who is Panda? Panda is ShivBaba himself, the Sun of Knowledge himself. Moreover, Karna was born from him. He (Karna) was born from him only but, he chose a different path. He supported the Kauravas (the descendants of Kuru). Pandavas supported Krishna. The devotees have considered that they supported Krishna. Actually, they didn’t support Krishna, whom did they support? They supported ShivBaba. Are the ones who take birth first, more powerful or are the ones who take birth later more powerful? (Everyone said: those who take birth first.) To which category did Krishna belong? He was born first. Although he was disdained by the society, he was called the son of a maid (daasi-putra) but he was very elevated in fame, in power and qualities.
Student: Why was he called daasi-putra, when he was born from Kunti (the mother of Pandavas)?
Baba: Because a servant sustained him. Is the charioteer, the one who drives the Chariot of the king a servant or an officer? He is a servant. So, a charioteer had sustained him. That is why, he was daasi-putra.
Student: Baba, Shanidev (the deity representing the planet Saturn) is also the son of the Sun. So is he included among the 8 deities (ashta dev) or is he out of the list of the 8 deities?
Baba: When he is called a deity, he is certainly a deity. Even among the 8 deities there are some of such appearance and forms who are ugly in appearance, aren’t there? In all the days of the week (var), how many days are there? There are 7 days. Which is the last day in that? [It is] Saturday.

Time: 14.57-19.30
Student: Baba has said , I come in the Confluence Age after a Kalpa (cycle). It means ‘after 4 Ages’, isn’t it?

Baba: Yes.
Student: So, the picture of clock which has been shown in the [picture of] world drama wheel ; the minute needle is shown in the Iron Age. Baba, why is it so?
Baba: The portion of the Iron Age will be added, will it not be? Only then will the Confluence [Age] be formed. If the portion of the Iron Age is not added at all, if the last portion of the Iron Age is not added in the Golden Confluence Age (Swarnim Sangamyug), how will the Confluence Age be formed?
Student: So, Baba this is the period between the Iron Age and Golden Age, is not it? So, it will neither be called in the Iron Age...
Baba: When the world is destroyed, it will be called an accurate Golden Age. However, before the destruction, establishment of the Golden Confluence Age will take place and before that there will be an extremely tamopradhan (dominated by the quality of darkness or ignorance), degraded (tamsi) stage.
Student: Baba, is it in the Golden Age (Swarnim yug)?
Baba: Before the Golden Age.
Student: Would we have already passed through the tamopradhan stage?
Baba: Are the seed-form souls, the eight deities in an extreme degraded stage before the arrival of the Golden Confluence Age or not? (Student: Yes). Yes.
Student: The drama is of 5000 years, isn’t it?
Baba: Yes.
Student: So, the Confluence Age starts in midway; anyhow, the Iron Age continues in the world....
Baba: One is an ordinary Confluence Age; for example, it was mentioned in the Avyakt Vani [narrated] today: ‘the love of God (Paramatma pyaar), and in which Age do we find the [actor who plays] part of God? Is it in the ordinary Confluence Age or in the elevated Confluence Age? (Someone said: call it the Golden Confluence Age or call it in the elevated Confluence Age). Not elevated. Even in the elevated Confluence Age, both are included. It’s very name is the Confluence Age. The elevated Confluence Age includes the Golden Confluence Age as well as the degraded stage because the entire reel of those who become the highest among men keeps rotating so that they could realize themselves as to what parts they have played. Is the realization course going on or not? Everyone should check themselves.

A question is raised in Murlis , first ask yourself , are we an Iron Age unrighteous one (bhrashtachari) or Golden Age righteous ones (shreshtachari)? Are we sinful tamopradhan ones or pure satopradhan ones? First ask your heart. So, who should ask whom first? First the Brahmins should ask themselves, shouldn't they? Have we entered the Golden Confluence Age? Where are we? In the sinful world everyone will be sinful only. In the pure world everyone will be pure only. So, we are residents of which place? Are we residents of the pure world or of the sinful world?
(Someone said - We are in between). Are you in between? Are you sure? We are residents of which place to a greater extent? ( A brother said: Of the pure world). Has mataji (student’s wife) come or not? Has she left [the gathering]? I will ask mataji now. (Ironically) You are residents of the pure world!

Time: 19.40-21.17
Student: Baba says , I come after 5000 years…

Baba: Who says, I come ? ShivBaba says, doesn’t He? So, when is ShivBaba present?
Student: So Baba, He should not say in 5000 years, should He…........?
Baba: So, [you] tell, when does He come? What do you think, when does He come? (Someone said – after 5000 years). No, let him (student) tell first. Yes, when does He come? You are asking the question, so, you must have determined something, mustn’t you?
Student : Baba, if it was clear to me, there wouldn’t have been any question to ask at all.
Baba: So, now you are asking, aren’t you? When you are asking , there is definitely something in your intellect. What do you think? When does He come, according to you?
Student: Baba, I do not know it clearly at all, what should I say?
Baba: So, how are you asking?
Student: So Baba, I am asking so that you can explain it clearly, in detail, nicely to me.
Baba: You asked that ShivBaba comes after 5000 years so, when, according to you, is the period after 5000 years? When was it? (Someone said – In 2036) 2036! Just listen! Will ShivBaba be said to be present at that time? (Someone said – No). So, when ShivBaba is not said to be present at all, how did He come? The corporeal one is called Baba and the point (the incorporeal one) is called Shiv . So, the one whom we call ShivBaba, the combination of the point of light Shiv and the corporeal one; when does He come? He comes since [19]76.....(to be continued)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 03 Mar 2010

वार्तालाप नं.468, डैंटल, दिनांक 23.12.07

समयः 23.00-24.10
जिज्ञासुः बाबा ये भाई ने पूछा था न कि ‘ 5000 वर्ष के बाद आता हूँ’ तो 1976 बाप का आने का समय हो गया तो वो एक 5000 के बाद कल्प पूरा हो जाता है?

बाबा: प्रत्यक्षता वर्ष कौनसा है? 76। तो जो बीज रूप आत्माओं की दुनिया है उनके लिए शुरुआत कब से हैं? उनके लिए नये कल्प की शुरुआत कब से माने? बाप मिला माने नई दुनिया मिली, सब कुछ मिला, इतनी खुशी होनी चाहिए।
जिज्ञासु: जब बच्चे का जन्म हो तभी से?
बाबा: हाँ, वो ठीक है, बाप जो है बच्चे के द्वारा प्रत्यक्ष होता है लेकिन निश्चय तो इतना होना चाहिए ना कि बाप मिला सब कुछ मिला। पाना था सो पा लिया। अब वो स्टेज नहीं है या नम्बरवार है, वो एक अलग बात। धारणा की है, नहीं धारणा की है, वो अपनी-2 प्राप्ति। बाकि बाप तो 76 में आ गया।

समयः 24.12-25.35
जिज्ञासुः ... जैसे लाईट हाऊस और माईट हाऊस तो इसको प्रैक्टिकल में लाने के लिए क्या करना पड़ेगा? हम तो लाईट हाऊस, माईट हाऊस स्मृति में रखते हैं और यहाँ ज्योति बिन्दु देखते हैं।

बाबा: जैसे पानी के जहाज होते हैं, लाईट हाऊस को देख करके वो उसी तरफ बढ़ जाते हैं। तो ऐसे ही जो लाईट हाऊस बनकरके रहेंगे, आत्मायें उनकी तरफ खींची हुई चली आयेंगी या वो उनकी तरफ खींच करके जायेंगे?
जिज्ञासु: लाईट हाऊस, माईट हाऊस के तरफ आत्मायें खींची चली आयेंगी।
बाबा: उसी तरफ खींची हुई चली आयेंगी।
जिज्ञासु: तो बाबा इसके लिए क्‍या करना पड़ेगा? आत्मिक स्थिति में रहना पडे़गा, मन के संकल्पों को एक आत्मा में समा देना पडे़गा कि मैं हूँ ही आत्मा और कोई मन के अन्दर संकल्प न आये?
बाबा: क्यों आते हैं?
जिज्ञासु: नहीं मैं पूछ रहा हूँ बाबा, इसको प्रैक्टिकल में लाने के लिए।
बाबा: आते हैं इसका मतलब 63 जन्मों का बोझा अभी है। आत्मा पवित्र नहीं है तो कशिश नहीं करेगी, पवित्र आत्मा है तो कशिश करेगी।

समयः 25.40-27.07
जिज्ञासुः अमीर और गरीब का बेहद में क्या अर्थ है?

बाबा: ज्ञान धन की धारणा वाला है वो बेहद का अमीर है और जो ज्ञान तो है, सुनाता भी बहुत है, सुनता भी बहुत है लेकिन धारणा नहीं है; तो ब्राह्मणों की भाषा में गरीब है या अमीर है? गरीब ही है।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा तो कहते हैं बाप तो गरीब निवाज है, बाप के बच्चे गरीब ही हैं। अब अमीर बन गए बाप के बच्चे। बाबा ने बोला है ना मुरली में भी, बाप गरीब निवाज है, बच्चे भी बाबा के गरीब हैं, तो धारणावादी तो अमीर हुए....
बाबा: अगर उनको नशा है कि हम बाप के बच्चे बन गए, पाना था सो पा लिया। अब हमें किसी की दरकार नहीं; जो भी तन है, जो भी मन है, जो भी धन है वो किसके लिए है? बाप की सेवा के लिए है, कूद गए। तो बाप की नज़र में वो अमीर हैं या गरीब हैं? अमीर ही हैं।

समयः 27.10-28.20
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, कर्मभोग तो बाबा के बच्चों के पास भी बहुत आते हैं और बाबा कहते हैं, हम दूसरों को सुख और शान्ति दें। जब कर्मभोग आते हैं तो सुख और शांति हमारे पास ही नहीं होती।

बाबा: जिसके पास खुद ही नहीं होगी तो वो दूसरों को क्या बाँटेगा?
जिज्ञासु: वही बात है ना कि जब कर्मभोग इतने आते हैं तो फिर कैसे दूसरों को सुख और शांति दे? आज की वाणी में हैं ना कि हम दूसरों को सुख और शांति दें।
बाबा: जिसने फैसला कर लिया हो कि हम तो अपने जीवन में ईश्वरिय सेवा ही करेंगे और कुछ, और कुछ नहीं करेंगे। कोई हमारा स्वार्थ नहीं, तो उसके लिए कर्मभोग रह गया? कैसे रह जायेगा कर्मभोग? शरीर कैसा भी लुंजुम पुंजुम हो... माताओं के लिए बोला, बूढ़ी-2 मातायें हैं। उनको पंख लग जावेंगे।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, ‘गे’ आ जाता है ना बीच में, ‘गा’ आ जाता है। तो अभी तो उसका इंतजार करना पड़ेगा।
बाबा: आज भी तो बोला, मुख्य पुरुषार्थ क्या है? नष्टोमोहा स्मृतिलब्धा।

Disc.CD No.468, dated 23.12.07 at Dental

Time: 23.00-24.10
Student: Baba, this brother asked , [The Father says], “I come after 5000 years’. So, when it was the time for the arrival of the Father in 1976, then does that mark the completion of a Kalpa after 5000 years?

Baba: Which is the year of revelation? [19]76. So, since when is it the beginning (of a cycle) for those in the world of seed form souls? Since when should it be considered that the new Kalpa began for them? We found the Father means we found the new world; we obtained everything. You should have so much joy.
Student: Is it since the time when the child is born?
Baba: Yes, that is all right. The Father is revealed through the child. But you should have faith to that extent, shouldn’t you? [You should have the faith] that when we have found the Father, we have obtained everything. We have achieved whatever we wanted to. Well, whether that stage does not exist or whether it is number wise; that is a different thing. Whether someone has inculcated it or not, it is their own attainment . Otherwise, the Father has already arrived in 1976.

Time: 24.12-25.35
Student:.............It is said ‘light house and might house’. So, what will we have to do to bring it in practical? We remember the light house, might house and see the point of light here (in the centre of the forehead).

Baba: Just as there are marine ships; they see the light house and move in that direction. So, similarly, those who remain as light house; will the souls come attracted to them or will they (those who have become light house) be attracted and go to the others?
Student: The souls will be attracted and move towards the light house, might house.
Baba: They will be pulled and come towards them.
Student: So, Baba, what will we have to do for this? Will we have to remain in a soul conscious stage for this; we will have to merge the thoughts of the mind in one soul [thinking], I am just a soul; should no other thought emerge in the mind?
Baba: Why do they (other thoughts) emerge?
Student: No, Baba, I am asking so that we can bring it in practical.
Baba: Other thoughts emerge , it means that the burden of 63 births is still there. If the soul is not pure, it will not pull (other souls). If the soul is pure, it will pull.

Time: 25.40-27.07
Student: What is meant by rich (amir) and poor (garib) in an unlimited sense?

Baba: The one who inculcates the wealth of knowledge is rich in an unlimited sense and the one who has knowledge, narrates as well as listens to knowledge a lot, but does not inculcate it; is he poor or rich in the language of Brahmins? He is definitely poor.
Student: Baba says, the Father is a friend of the poor ones (garib niwaz); the Father's children are poor. Now the Father's children have become rich. Baba has said even in the Murlis that the Father is a friend of the poor ones, Baba's children are also poor, hasn’t He? So the virtuous ones (dharnavaadi) are rich....
Baba: [The virtuous ones are rich] if they have the intoxication [of the thought], we have become the Father's children, we have achieved whatever we wanted to. Now we do not need anyone. Whatever body, mind, and wealth we have is for whom? It is for the Father's service; we have jumped [into this task]. So, are they rich or poor in the eyes of the Father? They are certainly rich.

Time: 27.10-28.20
Student: Baba, Baba’s children also face a lot of karmic sufferings (karmabhog) but Baba says, we should give happiness and peace to others. When we face karmic sufferings, we ourselves do not have happiness and peace at all.

Baba: When someone does not have something himself, how will he distribute it to the others?
Student: That is what I am asking that when we are facing so many karmic sufferings, how can we give happiness and peace to others? It is mentioned in today’s Vani that we should give happiness and peace to others, isn’t it?
Baba: The one who has decided : we will do only Godly service in our life[time]; we will not do anything else. We do not have any selfish motive; then is there any karmic suffering for him? How will there be any karmic sufferings for him? However much crippled (lunjum-punjum) the body is…....it has been said for the mothers, there are old mothers. They will develop wings.
Student: Baba, ‘ge’ or ‘Golden Age’ (will) comes in between. So, we will have to wait for it (to achieve the stage as mentioned above).
Baba: Even today it was said, what is the main purusharth (special effort for the soul)? Nashtomoha smritilabdha (to gain victory over attachment and regain remembrance). ...(to be continued)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 08 Mar 2010

Disc.CD No.467, Canada + New York Party, dated 20.12.07

Time: 00.18-02.55
Student:..... I want to know what is the meaning of creating the pure thoughts for new world and how do we do it.

Baba: What is meant by pure thoughts and how should we create pure thoughts?
Translator: Yes.
Baba: Pure thoughts are those which do not cause sorrow to anyone. Create such thoughts which do not cause sorrow to anyone. In order to make the vibrations pure, it is also important to make the thoughts pure. All the living beings are influenced by the vibrations; some to a lesser extent and some to a greater extent. Some beings are influenced to a lesser extent and some to a greater extent. The more the one who creates thoughts has pure vibrations, the more he creates good thoughts, the more he will influence. And through the change of vibrations, through the transformation of vibrations, the attitude (vritti) of the human beings change. When the attitude changes, the five elements also change.

Time: 03.05-05.25
Student: Baba says to give search light to the soul that we think will come in the knowledge. How do we give search light? What is the method?

Baba: The searchlight that we give, that searchlight reaches [the person whom we intend to give searchlight] only in accordance with our vibrations. The searchlight reaches only on the basis of the purity of our thoughts. The searchlight will reach [the intended soul] only in accordance with our feelings. Our searchlight will work for the soul towards whom we have good feelings. If the feeling is not good, the searchlight will not work either.
Translator: How?
Baba: In Baba’s remembrance.
Translator: how is searchlight given?
Baba: Just as we are souls, we made ourselves constant in soul conscious stage [thinking:] Baba is with us, we are spreading the vibrations along with Baba himself, our vibrations as well as the vibrations of Baba are there. [It is] like a torch.

Time: 05.45-16.02
Student: I have been a Brahmin for over 25 years. And I am involved in things like drishti and pictures of Brahma Baba and the Brahmin’s lifestyle. Now that I have come to PBK, I have utensils like, Bhog utensils. I have the pictures. I have all these things. They have been my ....for years. I need to know how to dispose off them.

Baba: Before coming to the basic [knowledge] the Hindus worship a lot of idols; they worship a lot of pictures, they go to the temples, and after entering the path of the basic [knowledge] what did they do [with it]? After complete coming in the basic knowledge?
Translator: Baba, she is a Christian, isn’t she? Baba: What do the Christians do? Christians also believe in the idol of Christ, they believe the cross, they believe the Church, what did they do?...they have faith in the books of the Church. What did they do?
Student: Well, now that is running into another question that I have to ask.
Baba: It is not a question emerging from another question. It is the core of the question [asked by you].
Student: Why I said, I am running into another question because I am a Christian minister or priest, whichever one you call it….. I am still functioning.
Baba: That is OK. But after entering the path of knowledge…. you are in the basic [knowledge] since 25 years, aren’t you? After being in basic for 25 years, you must have now become mature after 25 years, mustn’t you? After attaining maturity, what did you do with the Christian scriptures that you studied so far, the idols that you kept, the cross that you kept, the idol of Christ that you kept?
Student: I have never carried the cross. .....The Bible, right. I would use that but then I bring the light of understanding that I get from Baba, from that.
Baba: You got that [knowledge] now. You got the idea after you received it [the knowledge] from Baba.
Translator: She is still doing this work.
Baba: You were told just now, weren’t you? You had been reading Bible in the path of Bhakti (devotion). So, in what context did you use to read Bible in the path of Bhakti and in what context you read it now, in BK?
Student: Alright, let me make a suggestion; just an example rather. In the very Bible, it says;’’ you are a light’’ all right; and then, right. Because I have come to Baba’s knowledge, right now I know the light. Or the soul is the light. So what I give... right... Because I have the knowledge from Baba, I would say to them, this means that you are a light, you are a soul. So they have a deeper understanding what light means. Light means the soul. It has an intellect... and then I take it from there.
Baba: You are a light. God is light. [He is] also light. Even here the same thing is being said that a soul is light. The knowledge here is not different at all. Whatever knowledge is contained in the Bible is the knowledge here as far as the form of a soul is concerned. It is not different. Yes, there is no difference in that respect.
Student: So that’s the kind of thing. If I use the Bible, that’s what I do. I try to bring out, Baba’s knowledge. Right? Soul, Father’s soul, all those kinds of things I will try to mean them, if that’s the word. Or give them the light of understanding of what it means on the basis of Baba’s knowledge.
Baba: But you will also have to tally the versions in the Bible which are contradictory to the BK knowledge or you will have to tally the things in BK knowledge that are contradictory to Bible.
Student: I mostly go with what Baba says. Right? Because I know that, I know, because of Baba’s knowledge the Bible came in the Copper Age. Before, I didn’t know it. Now I know that it was written. I know who writes the Bible. I understand that. So what I try to do is to make sure that Baba’s knowledge comes out, regards of what the Bible says.
Translator: So, you are not taking those matters which contradict?
Student: Yes, I do, I did the matters which contradict. But I show to let them know that this is the truth. Baba’s knowledge is the truth.
Baba: So, it is a similar case here. We should accept whatever appears true to our heart. If something does not appear true to the heart, it should be left..............(to be continued)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 09 Mar 2010

Disc.CD No.467, Canada + New York Party, dated 20.12.07

Time: 16.25-24.00
Student: Within the church after I started bringing Baba’s knowledge in, there were quite a lot of people who disagreed. And they felt, that was not for the church and half of them walked away, they didn’t want that knowledge. But five people within the church have become Brahmins. Half walk away. But those that remain, five went over to the Basic knowledge. So it’s working.

Baba: Whatever number of people stayed back, i.e. 50 percent stayed back.
Translator: even among them, five became Brahmins.
Baba: Baba says in Murli, if you give message to 100 [people], one will emerge who follows the knowledge.
Translator: That method is working.
Baba: It is no doubt working, but when she obtained the advance knowledge there and became eager to come here, so she must have also narrated something to those 5 who emerged from among the 100 [people].
Student: I am only 4 months old in the advance knowledge.
Baba: It does not matter. Baba says - even a 10 days old child can gallop fast; he can narrate knowledge to others. It has been said so in the Murlis because only those who have played a part with Brahma Baba in the past birth in Mount Abu or with Baba in Sindh, Hyderabad will enter the advance knowledge.
Student: In the basic knowledge we were told that Brahma Baba is the Father of humanity. Now that’s what I was taught and that’s what I gave to the people. Now I have come in advance knowledge, that’s only one of the things, it is something different. That’s why I wanted to meet with Baba.
Baba: [It is] not something different. [It is] mostly different.Translator: Complete?
Baba: Not completely, [it is] mostly different.
Student: So that’s one of the things that I am faced with now. I want to change that Baba. I want to change all those teachings. He is not the Father of humanity. He is the mother. We have a Father.
Baba: Tell her, for example, when Christ came, he was in a satopradhan stage (consisting mainly in the quality of goodness and purity) and those who obtained [knowledge] from Christ, they all were the souls who came from the Soul World in the satopradhan stage. Now those souls, while taking many births, and while being entangled by the gurus, while listening to the versions of the gurus, became degraded (tamasi). They became [degraded], did not they? Similarly, here in the basic knowledge, those who have emerged from the beginning, who are following it, and are still following it have become degraded. They became dharmagurus (religious gurus) and sat. They sat [as religious gurus] and after that those who obtained first of all and left their bodies in between [while following the knowledge] and went in the lokik world, and then have come again now; they followed the basic knowledge for some days and then entered the [path of] advance knowledge; so they made a transformation. They are transformed. They cross [the stages]; the seed takes birth quickly, it grows quickly, and then it takes birth again. The topic of these seed-form souls is indeed different.

Time: 24.05-28.25
Student: I have a question about the piu Vani. It was given by Shiv through Prajapita at the beginning of the Yagya.

Baba: Piu Vani - ShivBaba's Vani. First Brahma.
Student: Yes and what was in those Vanis? Because Prajapita leaves the Yagya, because there was not enough knowledge. So what was in those Vani that couldn’t nourish?
Baba: He did not leave due to the lack of knowledge. He did not depart because of lack of knowledge; he left because he was opposed in the Yagya; on which topic? [ He was opposed] on the topic of laundry (dhobhi ghaat) that was being run in the beginning of the Yagya as well and they did not recognize the washer man, God the Father who used to work in that laundry. It was the same dispute in the beginning as well as now .....between B.K’s and P.B.K’s.
Student: So it’s not a question of lack of knowledge? Not at all?Baba: It was the knowledge of the beginners. It was the basic knowledge even in basic knowledge at that time. It was the foundation; there was no full knowledge . Full knowledge means the advance knowledge is emerging now. Had there been complete knowledge then, Prajapita would not have departed at all.
Translator: She asked one more question – what kind of topics of knowledge there were in the versions of Piu?
Baba: They used to narrate the meanings of the Sanskrit Gita. Today there are more than 108 commentaries, comments of the Sanskrit Gita. And one comment cuts (i.e. contradicts) the other. When 108 comments can emerge, can’t the comments based on Godly knowledge, exact Godly knowledge emerge?......(to be continued)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 10 Mar 2010

Disc.CD No.467, Canada + New York Party, dated 20.12.07

Time: 28.28-35.25
Student: Can Baba tell me when Mahakali comes to do the cleaning in the Brahmin family, does she do the cleaning in the advance, just in the advance or in all the Brahmin family?

Baba: Does cleaning take place inside initially or outside? The people of the outside world are far away; the people of the basic world are at a little distance and those in advance are inside only. The cleaning will begin from within the Advance Party and it will cast an effect on those of the basic [knowledge] and those in the basic knowledge will cast an effect on the people of the world.
Student: Baba says that when we are in knowledge all the family will take the knowledge.
Baba: They will come when the revelation takes place in the entire world. So, Baba has given this special blessing to those in the Advance Party that your entire family will follow the path of knowledge…...the advance knowledge.
Student: They will come when the revelation of the Father takes place
Baba: They will come at that time. They belong to the subject category, don’t they? They are not the souls with the quality of king’s class. The souls belonging to the king’s class are making purusharth (special effort for the soul). The souls belonging to the subject category will not make purusharth for purity, but in the last…, from now itself, she goes on narrating at her home, she goes on narrating to her family members. They are at least listening. Are they at least listening? They are listening; they are not throwing you out of your family. That is why; just for the reason that…. the Brahmakumaris throw you out; they will not come [in advance], but the family members, who at least have the tolerance to listen; those who at least listen to us, at least keep us with them; so just because of that they will come in the subject category in the last. They will come in the subjects of the first dynasty.

Student: So, that means that those souls take 84 births?
Baba: The souls belonging to the first dynasty who believe in the first emperor; they will definitely take 84 births. As the king so shall be the subjects. They will not just listen; despite listening to all these words of opposition, they are keeping you with them, they are ready to keep you [with them]. And BKs are not even ready to keep you with them. They are not ready to eat with you; they are not ready to see you. They are not ready to listen to you.
Student: So you are saying that they are going to throw me out? They will throw me out if I tell them?
Baba: You go there at the ashram and do the service of [narrating the] truth.

Student: I never knew that the soul of Ram existed. Nowhere in the Brahmin literature, was it ever disclosed that he was such a close partner. until I came into PBK knowledge.
Baba: Why? It has come in the Murli ‘Ram failed’.

Student: In this advance knowledge it is stated that they were partners. Is it because of their sanskars that they were partners or was it a custom or a system within the relation

Baba: The two partners who were there... one thing is that they were related by blood even before coming to knowledge. And when they came into the knowledge after 1936, they came into a relationship in knowledge, meaning Brahma Baba developed detachment towards this world. In the shop they were partners. In the shop, while doing business, Brahma Baba experienced ‘if there was anyone true that I have found in the world then it is this partner of mine’. He was more intelligent than Brahma Baba as well. It was in the intellect of Brahma Baba that he is more intelligent. But even after the seed of knowledge was sown it did not enter his intellect that this one (partner) is himself God.
Baba: That was because the partner was a worker in his shop for 10 years before that, he was the main worker [in the shop]. That is the reason it did not enter his intellect.
....since 1925 till 1936. It has been mentioned in the Murli ‘the one who was there for 10 years...’

Baba: A new point has come out. ‘The one (male) who was there for 10 years; the one (female) used to go into trance, Baba used to enter them. They used to give directions to Mama Baba; they used to make them perform the drill. Today they are not in knowledge because there was no complete knowledge then’. This has been mentioned in the Murli.

Time: 55.30-59.50
Student: Baba you say that we mustn’t give sorrow to anyone nor take sorrow from anyone. My lokik mother too is a minister. And she is so perturbed or upset whenever I give Gyan. I can see it myself giving her... and I am the child who will always do what mummy wants me to do. But I can’t do that now. Right? I am doing what Baba wants me to do. So it’s like there’s a conflict between mother and child. And I know for the fact that I am giving her pain. But, I can’t stop what I am doing. So I don’t know how to deal with this.

Baba: It means, she should not narrate Baba’s knowledge to her [mother]. If someone does not listen through words….if he hates [the knowledge], we should not narrate. Instead, we should try to give them knowledge through our act, through our behavior, through our love, through the love of our vision, through our vibrations while being in Baba’s remembrance. No, there is no need to give the knowledge at all. There is no need to narrate the knowledge through words at all. Give them love through your eyes, give them love through words, serve them through your organs of action.
Translator: Whatever her lokik mother does not want her to do…..
Baba: What does she not want?
Translator: I mean to say all these topics of knowledge.
Baba: Don’t narrate it to her. Accept her words; [tell her], “you are right.” What is the harm in just uttering these words through the mouth? What is the harm in listening to her words through the ears; listen through one ear and remove it through the other.

Time: 59.55 – 01.01.37
Student: Baba you said at the time of destruction, 14 souls may enter in the seed souls. What we have to do to make those souls go out of us?

Baba: They may enter. It is not necessary that they will enter in everyone. Other souls, souls of the other religions, except the Chandravanshis (souls belonging to the Moon dynasty) will not enter in those who are firm Suryavanshi seeds (those belonging to the Sun dynasty)...(concluded)............................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 11 Mar 2010

वार्तालाप – 254, तारीख – 10 / 2 / 07, आरा

समय: 0.08 - 17.15
जिज्ञासु: परदादी किसके लिए आया हुआ है?

बाबा: जैसे बेसिक में दादी है, दीदी है, परदादी है। कोई है परदादी? बेसिक ब्राह्मणों की दुनियाँ में परदादी किनको कहा जाता है?
जिज्ञासु: दिल्‍ली में शांतामणि है ना। उसी के लिए?
बाबा: निर्मलशांता दादी को।
जिज्ञासु: उन्‍हीं का नाम शांतामणि है?
बाबा: शांतामणि अलग और कलकत्‍ते की निर्मलशांता दादी अलग। वो तो हैं बेसिक में। हद की नॉलेज है छोटे बच्‍चों की नॉलेज है। और बेहद में परदादी वो है जिनके लिए अभी पिछली अव्‍यक्‍त वाणी में बोला है कि तुम बच्‍चों ने इन दादियों का भी श्रृंगार किया है। उनकी सरपरस्‍त, मुखिया। यज्ञ के आदि में तुम सूर्यवंशी बच्‍चे थे, फिर छोड़ करके कारणे-अकारणे चले गए। फिर यज्ञ में आते हो। तो आदि में भी तुमने उन दादियों का श्रृंगार किया था। आदि में गुण रत्‍नों से श्रृंगार किया था। आदि में हो सो अंत में भी होगा। आदि सो अंत। आदि में गुण रत्‍नों से श्रृंगार किया और अंत में एडवांस में ज्ञान रत्‍नों से तुम उनका श्रृंगार करेंगे। तो जैसे बेसिक में दादियाँ हैं, वैसे एडवांस में भी दीदी, दादियाँ हैं। बड़ों को ही कहा जाता है, सम्‍मान देने के लिए। लेकिन दादियों में भी कोई परदादी है।

सुर्यवंशी घराना है। तो सुर्यवंशी घराने में कोई मात-पिता की स्‍टेज पर भी होंगे। बाप तो बाप ही है। डाडे कहा जाता है। डाडे है तो डाडी भी चाहिए, जो ज्ञान में, गुण रत्‍नों में, धारणा में, सब बातों में आगे हो। एडवांस में चंद्रवंशीयों का भी ग्रुप है, इस्‍लामवंशीयों का भी ग्रुप है, बौध्दिवंशीयों का भी ग्रुप है; हर प्रकार के 12-12 के 9 ग्रुप हैं। उन सबका पूर्वज कौनसा ग्रुप है? सूर्यवंशी ग्रुप। तो सूर्यवंशी ग्रुप में भी माला के मणकों की जो प्रत्‍यक्ष्‍ता होती है उसमें पहले-पहले कौनसे दो मणके प्रत्‍यक्ष होते हैं। अष्‍ट देव। अष्‍ट देवों में भी...…वो तो 8 हैं। 8 इकट्ठे प्रत्‍यक्ष होंगे या नम्‍बरवार प्रत्‍यक्ष होते हैं? नम्‍बरवार में भी प्रवृत्ति मार्ग है।

भाई-बहन की भी बात नहीं, भाई-भाई हैं। रूद्रमाला के मणके आपस में क्‍या हैं? भाई-भाई। लेकिन स्‍त्री-पुरूष का चोला है, तो भाई-बहन कहे जाते हैं। तो पार्टधारी हैं। असल जो सूर्यवंशी हैं, उनके ग्रुप में जो पहले-पहले पालना करने वाले हैं, जिनके लिए बोला है कि नई दुनियाँ की सौगात तुम बच्‍चों को दी है। तो उनके भी कोई मुखिया के रूप में हैं, मात-पिता के रूप में पालना देनेवाले हैं। इसलिए शंकर के रूप में तो शिव बाप परमपिता परमात्‍मा के रूप में गाया हुआ है, लेकिन शंकर आधार किसका लेता है? अरे, शिव शंकर में आता है, साकार में, आकार में; तो इस सृष्टि पर आने के बाद आधार लेके काम करता है कि बिना आधार के काम करता है?

24 अवतार गाए हुए हैं, 10 अवतार गाए हुए हैं; उनमें ज्‍यादातर अवतार तो जानवरियत के अवतार दिखाए गये हैं। लेकिन दो अवतार ऐसे हैं जो मनुष्‍य के अवतार हैं, मनुष्‍य रूप में – राम और कृष्‍ण। वो धरणी का आधार ले करके चलते हैं। धरणी माने कन्‍याओं-माताओं को मुखिया बनाते हैं। इसलिए भारतीय परम्‍परा में गायन है, ‘यत्र नारयस्‍तु पूज्‍यन्‍ते।‘ नारियों की जहाँ पूजा होती है, मान्‍यता होती है वहाँ देवतायें रमण करते हैं। देवताओं के पांव धरती, माने मिट्टी के ऊपर, देहाभिमान की मिट्टी के ऊपर नहीं पड़ते। तो अभी देवतायें कौन हैं? कोई देवात्‍मायें हैं? कृष्‍ण की आत्‍मा है पहला देवता और उसके साथ-साथ सतयुग में जो भी जन्‍म लेंगे वो होंगे नम्‍बरवार देवता। वो आत्‍मायें धारणा में तीखी हैं या नहीं तीखी हैं? रूद्रमाला तो वर्तमान में अभी बन्‍दरों की माला है या मन्दिर लायक बनने वालों की है? अभी क्‍या कहेंगे? (सबने कहा – बन्‍दरों की, बाबा।) तो उनमें उन धारणावान देवताओं का प्रवेश होता है।

भल जो बन्‍दर है, वो ऊँची चाढ़ी बहुत चढ़ते हैं। कोई पेड़ होता है, तो कौनसा जानवर पेड़ की टुंगुस पर जाकर बैठता है? (सबने कहा – बंदर।) कहते हैं, बन्‍दर को दिल नहीं होता है। नहीं तो ज्‍यादा ऊँचाई पे जो बैठता है, चढ़ता है, तो उसका दिल धड़कने लगता है। अब जिसको दिल ही नहीं है, तो दिल धड़कने की बात ही नहीं। भावना दिल की चीज़ है या दिमाग की चीज़ है? दिल की चीज है। तो दो आत्‍मायें हैं विशेष – राम और कृष्‍ण। बुध्दि में तीखा कौन है और दिल में तीखा कौन है? दिल माना मन। दिलवाला है कृष्‍ण और बुध्दिमान है कृष्‍ण का बाप। तो जो 16 कला सम्‍पूर्ण बनते हैं, उनको कहा जाता है देवता। बेसिक नॉलेज में जो आत्‍मायें अभी पक्‍का बेसिक में निश्‍चयबुध्दि होकरके शरीर छोड़ रही हैं, वो देव आत्‍मायें हैं। धारणा वाली आत्‍मायें हैं। वो शरीर छोड़ने के बाद सूक्ष्‍म शरीर से प्रवेश कर रही हैं। किनमें प्रवेश कर रही हैं? बुध्दिमान बाप के बुध्दिमान बच्‍चों में प्रवेश करती हैं। तो दो प्रकार के देवतायें हैं। एक हैं 16 कला सम्‍पूर्ण बननेवाले और दुसरे वो हैं जो डायरेक्‍ट ब्राह्मण से क्‍या बन जाते हैं? देवता बन जाते हैं, इसी जीवन में।

जन्‍म लेकर देवता नहीं बनते, लेकिन बाप आकर उनको डासयरेक्‍ट नर से नारयण बनाता है। तो ऐसी जो देवात्‍मायें हैं, वो धरणी का आधार ले करके चलते हैं। धरणी अर्थात् कन्‍यायें-मातायें। जो जानवरीयत को धारण करनेवाले भगवान के रूप हैं, जिनके लिए कहा गया है, ऊँच ते ऊँच भगवान, एक है। तो ज़रूर नम्‍बरवार बनने वाले भगवान भी हैं। तो जो नम्‍बरवार बनने वाले भगवान हैं, जानवरियत के जैसा स्‍वभाव धारण करनेवाले, वो धरणी का आधार लेकर नहीं चलते हैं। वो ज्ञान के घमंड में चलते हैं। जल का आधार लेते हैं। ज्ञान जल में रहनेवाले हैं, ज्ञान जल का आधार लेते हैं। धरणी को निमित्‍त नहीं बनाते। तो बाप आते हैं राम, कृष्‍ण में। राम, कृष्‍ण वाली आत्‍मायें किनको आधार बना करके चलती हैं? कन्‍याओं-माताओं को। यज्ञ के आदि से ही कन्‍याओं-माताओं को निमित्‍त बनाया है। हाँ, इतना ज़रूर है.....बोला है, भारत में पुरूष की एक स्‍त्री मर जाती है तो कहते हैं, एक जूती गई, दुसरी जूती लेते हैं।

ये ब्रह्मा भी मेरा पुराना तन है। कौनसा ब्रह्मा? दादा लेखराज ब्रह्मा। इससे पहले भी कोई ब्रह्मा हुआ था? इससे पहले भी कोई ब्रह्मा हुआ था क्‍योंकि दादा लेखराज ब्रह्मा तो टाईटलधारी ब्रह्मा है। असल ब्रह्मा कोई और माता थी। (किसी ने कहा – गीता माता।) एड़वान्‍स में आने के बाद वो गीता माता फिर प्रत्‍यक्ष होती है। लेकिन जो गीता है वो मनुष्‍यों की बनायी हुई गीता है। मनुष्‍यों की बनायी हुई गीता में भगवान किसको मान लिया गया? कृष्‍ण उर्फ दादा लेखराज को भगवान मान लिया गया है। तो जो जगदम्‍बा का टाईटलधारी है, वो कृष्‍ण की सोल को भगवान के रूप में समझ लेती है इसलिए जगदम्‍बा जब महाकाली बनती है, तो उसके मस्‍तक पर चंद्रमाँ दिखाया जाता है। चंद्रमाँ किसकी यादगार है? ब्रह्मा की यादगार है। जगदम्‍बा ही महाकाली का रूप धारण करती है। महाकाली बन करके क्‍या करती है? असुर संघारणी कहा जाती है। जो संघार होता है, वो काहे से होता है? और स्‍थापना काहे से होती है? पवित्रता से होती है स्‍थापना और इम्‍प्‍योरिटी से होता है विनाश। जो पवित्रता को धारण करने वाली देवी है, निमित्‍त, उसका नाम है महागौरी। जो अपवित्रता को धारण करने वाली गौरी है खेल दिखाने वाली, उसका नाम क्‍या? महाकाली। वो जगदम्‍बा बनती है। बाप खुद विनाश नहीं कराते। शक्तियाँ निमित्‍त बनी हुई हैं। बाप अगर विनाश करावे तो बाप के ऊपर दोष आ जावे। फिर सूर्यवंश की स्‍थापना नहीं हो सकती। इसलिए महाकाली जब महाकाली का पार्ट बजाती है, तो नई दुनियाँ की स्‍थापना के लिए कोई निमित्‍त चाहिए। इसलिए शंकर की प्‍यारी नगरी काशी नगरी कही जाती है। काशी माने काश्‍य अर्थात् तेज को धारण करनेवाली। याद के तेज को धारण करनेवाली। वो माताओं की भी माता है। इसलिए परदादी है।

Discussion 254, Date: 10.2.07, Aara

Student: For whom was it said Pardadi?
Baba: For example, in the basic [knowledge] there are Dadis, Didis; there is the pardadi. Is there a pardadi? Who is called ‘pardadi’ in the world of the Brahmins of the basic [knowledge]?
Student: Shantamani in Delhi is herself called so.
Baba: Nirmal Shanta Dadi.
Student: Her name is Shantamani.
Baba: Shantamani is [someone] different and Nirmal Shanta Dadi from Calcutta is [someone] different. They are in the basic [knowledge]. That is the knowledge of the limited, the knowledge for the small children. And in the unlimited sense Pardadi is the one for whom it was said in the previous Avyakt Vani, ‘You children decorated even these Dadis’; [she is] the head, the leader of those [children]. You children of the Sun Dynasty were present at the beginning of the Yagya. Later on you left for some reasons. You come to the Yagya again. So, also at the beginning [of the Yagya] you decorated these Dadis. At the beginning you decorated [them] with the jewels of virtues. If this happens at the beginning, it will also happen at the end. As [it is] at the beginning, as [it is] at the end. At the beginning you decorated them with the jewels of virtues and at the end, in the advance [knowledge] you will decorate them with the jewels of knowledge. So, just like there are Dadis in the basic [knowledge], in the same way there are Didis [and] Dadis in the advance [knowledge]. The elder ones are addressed in this way out of respect. But also among Dadis someone is pardadi.

There is the family of the Sun Dynasty. In the family of the Sun Dynasty someone will be on the position of the mother and Father. Father is the Father anyway. He is called dade [the Hindi term used for the grandfather]. There is a dade, so a Dadi is also needed, the one who would go ahead in everything, in knowledge, in jewels of virtues, in dharna (in putting the knowledge into practice). In the advance knowledge there is the group of the Moon Dynasty, there is the group of the Islam Dynasty, there is the group of the Buddhist Dynasty… There are 9 groups of every kind [of religion] with 12 [souls] in each. Which group is the ancestor of all of them? The group of the Sun Dynasty. So, in the revelation of the beads of the mala that takes place also in the group of the Sun Dynasty, which two beads are revealed first? 8 deities. And also among 8 deities? They are 8. Will the 8 be revealed together or will they be revealed number wise? The path of pravritti is followed also in [being] number wise.

It is not about [the relationship] of the brother and sister. They are [mutually] brothers. The beads of the Rudra mala, who are they for each other? Brothers, but they have female or male bodies, so they are called brothers and sister. They are actors. Among the first ones who give sustenance in the group of the true Sun Dynasty, for whom it was said, ‘You children have been given the gift of the new world’, they also have some leaders, who in the form of the mother and Father give sustenance. That is why the Father Shiva is praised in the form of Shankar, in the form of the Supreme Father Supreme Soul. However, who does Shankar take as the support? Arey, Shiva comes in Shankar, in the corporeal one, in the one who has a [physical] shape; so, after coming to this world does he do the work having taken a support or does he do the work without a support?

[People] praise 24 incarnations, they praise 10 incarnations; most of those incarnations have been shown as the animal incarnations. However, there are two human incarnations, [the incarnations] in the human form – Ram and Krishna. They take the support of the earth and do their work. The earth, it means they make mothers and kanyas into leaders. That is why there is a song of praise in the tradition of Bharat, ‘Yatranaaryastupujyante’. [Meaning] the deities take delight where the women are worshiped, where they are hold in regard. The deities don’t step on the earth, meaning on the soil, the soil of body consciousness. Now, who are deities? Is there any deity soul? The soul of Krishna is the first deity. And all who will be born along with him in the Golden Age will be deities number wise. Are those souls sharp in dharna or not? Regarding the Rudra mala at this time, are they the mala of monkeys or are they the mala of the ones becoming worthy of temple. What will it be said for now? So, those virtuous deities enter them.

All right, monkeys climb up very high. There is a tree; then, which animal climbs to the peak at sits there? It is said that the monkey doesn’t have the heart. Otherwise, the heart of the one who sits very high, who climbs [very high] shakes. But in the case of the one who doesn’t have the heart at all, there is no question of the shaking heart. Do feelings belong to the heart or do they belong to the brain? They belong to the heart. Well, there are two special souls – Ram and Krishna. Who is sharp in the intellect and who is sharp in the heart? The heart meaning the mind. Krishna is dilvala [the one with a heart] and Krishna’s Father is intellectual. The ones who become complete with 16 celestial degrees are called deities. The souls in the basic knowledge that are leaving their bodies now [in the stage of] having a strong faith in the basics, are deity souls; they are virtuous souls. After leaving the body they are entering [the others] through their subtle bodies. In whom are they entering? They enter the intellectual children of the intellectual Father. There are two kinds of deities. One [kind] – those who become complete in 16 celestial degrees; another one – those who from Brahmins become directly what? They become deities. In this life.

They don’t become deities after being reborn, but the Father comes and makes them directly Narayan from nar(man). So, these deities take the earth as a support and do the work. ‘Earth’ means kanyas and mothers. The ones who assimilate the animal nature and are the forms of God, for whom it has been said, ‘The highest on high God is one’.... So, certainly there are also those who become ‘gods’ number wise. So, those who become ‘gods’ number wise, those who assimilate the animal nature, don’t take the support of the earth and do the work. They live in the arrogance of [their] knowledge. They take the water as a support. They live in the water of knowledge, they take the support of the water of knowledge. They don’t make the earth into an instrument. So, the Father comes in Ram and Krishna. Who do Ram and Krishna’s souls make into the support and do the work? The kanyas and mothers. Since the beginning of the Yagya the kanyas and mothers have been made into instruments. Yes, it is certain that ... [People] in Bharat say… When a man’s wife dies, they say, ‘One shoe is gone, we take another one.’

This Brahma too is my old body. Which Brahma? Dada Lekhraj Brahma. Was there any Brahma previously? There was some Brahma previously, because Dada Lekhraj Brahma is the one who holds the title of Brahma, some other mother was the original Brahma. That Mother Gita is revealed again after coming to the advance [knowledge]. Well, the Gita [that is present] is created by humans. Who has been accepted as God in the Gita created by humans? So, the one who holds the title of Jagadamba thinks that the soul of Krishan is the form of God. That is why when Jagadamba becomes Mahakali [The Great Black One], she is shown having the moon on her forehead. The moon is a memorial of whom? A memorial of Brahma. It is Jagadamba who assumes the form of Mahakali. She becomes Mahakali and does what? She is said to be ‘The Destroyer of the Devils’. Through what does the destruction take place? And through what does the establishment take place? Establishment takes place because of purity; destruction takes place because of impurity. The name of the devi becoming an instrument in assimilating purity is Mahagauri [The Great Fair One]. What is the name of the Gaurii assimilating impurity and showing a play? Mahakali. She becomes Jagadamba. The Father doesn’t cause destruction himself. Shaktis are made into instruments. If the Father caused destruction, he would be blamed. Then, the establishment of the Sun Dynasty couldn’t take place. That is why when Mahakali plays the part of Mahakali, someone is needed as an instrument in the establishment of the new world. That is why it is said that Kashi is Shankar’s dearest city. Kashi means kashya that is the one who assimilated power, the one who absorbs the power of remembrance. She is the mother of even the mothers. That is why she is the pardadi.
The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 12 Mar 2010

वार्तालाप नं. 469, कलकत्ता, दिनांक 25.12.07

समयः 10.55-24.25
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, चोले से जगदम्बा स्वर्ग में नहीं जायेंगे?

बाबा: स्वर्ग में जाने वाले सूर्यवंशी होंगे या चन्द्रवंशी, इस्लामवंशी, बौद्धीवंशी, क्रिश्चयनवंशी भी होंगे? सूर्यवंशी होंगे। जो सूर्यवंशी स्वर्ग में जावेंगे वो 84 जन्म लेने वाले होंगे या कम जन्म लेने वाले होंगे? 84 जन्म लेने वाले होंगे। 84 जन्म लेने वाले जो सूर्यवंशी है उनकी माला होती है। होती है ना? ( सभी ने कहा: होती है।) वो माला में सारे ही एक ही बीजरूप होंगे या अलग-2 धर्मों के बीज होंगे? अलग-2 धर्मों के भी बीज होंगे और जो अलग-2 धर्मों के बीज होंगे उनकी प्रजा अलग-2 धर्मों की होगी या एक ही धर्म की होगी? उनकी प्रजा भी अलग-2 धर्मों की होगी। यथा राजा तथा प्रजा। माना रुद्रमाला का जो पहला मणका होगा वो किस ग्रुप से होगा? सूर्यवंशी ग्रुप से होगा और उस ग्रुप में जो प्रजा का अंतिम पार्ट बजाने वाली आत्मा होगी, संगठन का, असल सूर्यवंशी संगठन का अंतिम पार्ट बजाने वाली आत्मा, उस आत्मा में और रुद्रमाला का जो अंतिम मणका होगा, उसका जो मुखिया होगा वो कौनसे वंश का होगा? (किसीने कहा- सूर्यवंशी।) सूर्यवंशी होगा? रुद्रमाला के मणकों में जो अंतिम मणका है?

माला बनती है तो 2 ग्रुप होते हैं। एक दाईं ओर का और एक बाईं ओर का। दाईं ओर का जो पार्ट बजाने वाले होते हैं वो अलग और बाईं ओर का पार्ट बजाने वाले अलग। तो उन दाईं ओर और बाईं ओर के पार्ट बजाने वालों में कोई सबसे ऊपर भी होंगे? (किसीने कहा- बाप है।) सिर्फ बाप का ही ग्रुप जो है वो ऊपर होगा? माँ का ग्रुप ऊपर नहीं होगा? माँ का ग्रुप भी ऊपर ही होगा ना? जैसे कई बार बोला है, माला में 2 मणके होते हैं और दोनों ही बाप के नजदीक। अंतिम मणका भी नज़दीक और पहला (अंतिम) मणका भी उतना ही नज़दीक होगा जितना फर्स्ट मणका नज़दीक होता है। लेकिन वो अंतिम कहा जाता है और वो फर्स्ट कहा जाता है। ऐसे क्यों? कोई भी माला हो, रुद्रमाला हो, विजयमाला हो, कोई भी माला हो, जो ऊपर के 2 मणके हैं उनमें एक है दाईं ओर का और एक है बाईं ओर का। बाईं ओर का जो मणका है वो वाम मार्गी मणकों का मुखिया है और दाईं ओर का जो मणका है वो दाये हाथ का जो श्रेष्ठ पार्ट है उनका मुखिया है। तो 2 वंश हुए सबसे ऊपर। कौन-कौनसे? सूर्यवंश और चन्द्रवंश।

रावण राज्य कहाँ से स्थापन होता है? रावण राज्य का बीज कौनसे वंश से पड़ता है? (किसी ने कहा- राम वाली सोल।) राम वाली आत्मा से रावण राज्य का बीज पड़ता है! राम वाली आत्मा से रावण राज्य का बीज पड़ता है तो रावण राज्य कहा जाना चाहिए या राम राज्य कहा जाना चाहिए? राम राज्य और रावण राज्य दो राज्य है ना, दो प्रकार के? राम के द्वारा राम राज्य और रावण के द्वारा रावण राज्य। जब रावण कहा जाता है तो रावण की रहबरी में सब धर्म पलने चाहिए या कोई धर्म ऐसा भी है जो उसकी रहबरी में नहीं पलता है? जब शिवबाबा आते हैं इस सृष्टि पर तो सिर्फ एक ही वंश ऐसा निकलता है जो आदि से अंत तक कभी भी शिवबाबा को धोखा नहीं देता।

तुम बच्चे हो अपने देवी-देवता सनातन धर्म के पक्के। जो पक्के सूर्यवंशी है वो कभी भी धोखा देने वाले नहीं हो सकते। कच्चे होंगे तो थोड़ा न थोड़ा बाप की ग्लानि करने वाले ग्रुप में जरूर आ जावेंगे। इसलिए कहा ‘सद्गुरु निन्दक ठौर न पावे’। कौनसा ठौर की बात है? वो तो सन्यासी लोग भी कहते हैं, सद्गुरु निन्दक ठौर न पावे। उनके पास तो कोई ठौर होता ही नहीं, तो बात कहाँ की है? संगमयुग की बात है। माना जो चन्द्रवंशी ग्रुप है, बीज रूप आत्माओं में खास; जैसे आधारमूर्त में पार्ट चला है वैसे ही बीज रूप चन्द्रवंशी ग्रुप पार्ट बजायेगा या कोई दूसरा पार्ट बजायेगा? यज्ञ के आदि से ले करके सूर्यवंशी और चन्द्रवंशी, दोनों अलग-2 हो गए। अलग हुए या नहीं हुए? अलग हुए। सारी दुनिया ने कौनसे ग्रुप को अपनाया? चन्द्रवंशी ग्रुप को अपनाया, चन्द्रवंशी ग्रुप में पले और सूर्यवंशी, सूर्य और सूर्यवंशी ग्रुप वो हवा हो गया। ऐसे ही जो आदि में हुआ सो अंत में भी होना चाहिए या नहीं होना चाहिए? होना चाहिए।

अलफ को मिला अल्लाह, बे बादशाही जिसको चाहिए सो ले ले। जिसको ज्यादा तमन्ना हो कि हम राज्य करे, कंट्रोल करे। ब्राह्मणों की दुनिया में भी ऐसी आत्मायें हैं या नहीं है जो चाहती हैं, हम कंट्रोल करें? बेसिक नॉलेज में भी हुए या नहीं हुए? और अभी है या नहीं है? हैं। ढ़े़र के ढ़े़र हैं जो चाहते हैं हमारे कंट्रोल में सारी दुनिया रहे। तो बेसिक नॉलेज में जब इतना प्रत्यक्ष देखने में आ रहा है तो एडवांस नॉलेज में भी कोई गुरु ऐसे होंगे या नहीं होंगे? निकलेंगे या नहीं निकलेंगे जिनके अन्दर की तमन्ना होगी कि सारे हमारे कंट्रोल में रहें?

बाप तो आया है, बोलता है, बच्चे बाप समान बनो। बाप कहता भी है, बच्चे, तुम ब्राह्मण हो। ब्राह्मणों का कर्म है सेवाधारी बनना। क्या? सेवाधारी हो। बाप खुद भी अपन को कहता है, आय एम यॉर मोस्ट ओबिडियंट सर्वेंट और प्रैक्टिकल में बन करके भी दिखाता है। क्या? प्रैक्टिकल में बनके दिखाता है? कोई बच्चे कहेंगे कि बाप हमारा ओबिडियंट सर्वेंट है? कहेंगे नहीं लेकिन महसूस करते होंगे? करते हैं? कभी शिकायत तो नहीं करते हैं कि हम 20 बार फोन करते हैं, हमें एक बार भी फोन का जवाब नहीं आता? 20 बार हम ई-मेल करते हैं, हमारे एक भी ई-मेल का जवाब नहीं आता? तो ओबिडियंट सर्वेंट हुआ? हुआ? नहीं हुआ! (किसी ने कहा- कभी टाईम कम होता है इसलिए।) माना ओबिडियंट सर्वेंट तो है, लेकिन एवररेडी नहीं है! और बाप जिन बच्चों का ओबिडियंट सर्वेट बनके आता है उनका एवररेडी सर्वेंट होगा या लेज़ी (lazy) सर्वेंट होगा? (सभी- एवररेडी।) अरे! ऐसे सर्वेट को कोई पसन्द करता है कि ऑर्डर दे और कोई काम ही न करे कहे, बकने दो, बोलने दो, बाद में कर लेंगे? ऐसे सर्वेंट को कोई पसन्द करता है? कोई नहीं पसन्द करेगा।

तो शिवबाबा कहते हैं, बच्चे आय एम यॉर मोस्ट ऑबिडियंट सर्वेंट। माना 84 जन्मों में तुम्हें ऐसा कभी भी सर्वेंट ओबिडियंट नहीं मिलेगा। क्या? कि रात में सो रहा हो, और सो रहा हो तो भी अलार्म अलर्ट करके रखे- पता नहीं कब घण्टी आ जाए, कब काम करना पड़े। 84 जन्मों में ऐसा सर्वेंट कभी नहीं मिलेगा लेकिन इस संगमयुग में मैं तुम्हारा ओबिडियंट सर्वेंट बनता हूँ। तो आज्ञाकारी, वफादार, ईमान्दार, फरमान-बरदार बच्चों का ओबिडियंट सर्वेंट होगा या ताल ठोक के सामने आ जाए उनका सर्वेंट बनेगा? किसका सर्वेंट बनेगा? आज्ञाकारी, वफादार, ईमानदार और फरमान-बरदार जो बच्चे होंगे माना सर्व सम्बन्धों से निभाने वाले जो बच्चे होंगे उनका ओबिडियंट सर्वेंट बनके आता है। आता नहीं है, प्रैक्टिकल में बनता भी है। वो अनुभव भी कर रहे होंगे।

जिज्ञासु: बाबा प्रश्न ये था कि वो संगमयुग के स्वर्ग में तो नहीं जायेंगी ना?
बाबा: संगमयुगी स्वर्ग में जो अव्वल नं. आज्ञाकारी, वफादार, ईमानदार, फरमान-बरदार बच्चे होंगे, जिन बच्चों का बाप ओबिडियंट सर्वेंट बनकरके प्रैक्टिकल में पार्ट बजा रहा होगा, वो स्वर्ग में क्यों नहीं होंगे?
जिज्ञासु: जगदम्बा तो संगमयुगी स्वर्ग में जायेगी लेकिन 16000 जो...
बाबा: संगमयुगी स्वर्ग में जगदम्बा पहले जायेगी?
जिज्ञासु: नहीं, जाना तो चाहिए ...
बाबा: चाहिए? पहले जाना चाहिए? वो अष्ट देवों में आयेगी?
जिज्ञासु: अष्ठ देवों में तो नहीं है।
बाबा: जब अष्ट देवों में नहीं है तो पहले स्वर्ग में कैसे होगी?
जिज्ञासु: पहले नहीं बाबा, बोला है, जो 16000 आत्मायें हैं वो संरक्षण देंगी ना लास्ट में...?
बाबा: अरे, 16000 में तो बताया है कि 16000 में जाने से तो अच्छा, साहूकार प्रजा में चला जाए सो बढ़िया।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, जगदम्बा ही स्वर्ग का गेट खोलेंगे तो...?
बाबा: जगदम्बा स्वर्ग का गेट खोलेगी कब? जब जगदप्पा के अंडर द कंट्रोल होगी तब या कंट्रोल से बाहर होगी तब?
जिज्ञासु: गेट खोलने के बाद तो स्वर्ग में सभी घुसेंगे।
बाबा: हाँ, गेट खोलने में भी आगे कौन होगा? जो असली प्रैक्टिकल में जगदम्बा का पार्ट बजाने वाली होगी वो होगी या सिर्फ सुनने-सुनाने के लिस्ट में होगी वो होगी?
जिज्ञासु: जो असली होगी।
बाबा: एक होता है एडवांस ज्ञान सुनना और दूसरों को सुना देना और प्रैक्टिकल में जब परीक्षा आए तो छिटक करके अलग हो जाना और एक होते हैं- ज्ञान सुने भी, सुनाये भी और जब प्रैक्टिकल की परीक्षा आए तो उसमें भी पास हो करके दिखाए। तो प्रैक्टिकल स्वर्ग में कौन जावेंगे पहले? जो पास हो करके दिखाए वो पहले जावेंगे। जो सिर्फ प्यार करते हैं, दुनिया की नजरों में दिखाते हैं कि हम सरेण्डर हुए लेकिन अंत तक निभाते नहीं है। जब निभाते नहीं है अंत तक तो पाने वालों की लिस्ट में भी अव्वल नं नहीं आ सकते, दूसरे ग्रुप में चले जावेंगे।

Disc.CD No.469, dated 25.12.09 at Calcutta-1

Time: 10.55-24.25
Student: Baba, will Jagdamba not go to heaven with her body?

Baba: Will those who go to heaven be Suryavanshis (those of the Sun dynasty) or will they also be Chandravanshis (those of the Moon dynasty), Islamvanshis (those of the Islam dynasty), Baudhivanshis (those of the Buddhist dynasty), Christianvanshis (those of the Christian dynasty)? They will be Suryavanshis. Will the Suryavanshis who go to heaven, take 84 births or will they take fewer births? They will take 84 births. There is a rosary of the Suryavanshis who take 84 births. It exists, doesn’t it? ( Everyone said: It exists). Will all the beads of that rosary be similar seed-form souls or will they be the seeds of different religions? There will be seeds of different religions too, and will the subjects of those who are seeds of different religions belong to different religions or to the same religion? Their subjects will also belong to different religions. As is the king so are the subjects. It means ... the first bead of the rosary of Rudra (Rudramala) will belong to which group? He will be from the Suryavanshi group and in that group, the soul who plays the part of the last subject; the soul who plays the part of the last one in the gathering, of the true Suryavanshi gathering, that soul [will belong to which dynasty] and the last bead of the Rudramala, its head will belong to which dynasty? (Someone said – Suryavanshi). Will he be a Suryavanshi, the last bead among the beads of the Rudramala?

When a rosary is formed, there are two groups. One of the right side and the other of the left side. Those who play the part of the right side are different and those who play the part of the left side are different. So, will there be someone who are topmost among those who play the part of the left side and the right side? (Someone said – the Father.) Will just the Father’s group be at the top? Will the Mother’s group not be at the top? The Mother’s group will also be at the top, will it not ? For example, it has been said many times that there are two beads [at the top] in the rosary and both are close to the [Supreme Soul] Father. The last bead is close and the last bead will be as close [to the Father] as the first bead. But that one is called the last bead and that one (the first one) is called the first bead. Why is it so? Whichever rosary it may be, whether it is Rudramala, Vijaymala, or any rosary, among the top two beads, one is on the right side and the other is on the left side. The bead on the left side is the head of the beads who follow the left path and the bead on the right side is the head of those who play the righteous part on the right hand side. So, two dynasties are topmost. Which ones? The Sun Dynasty and the Moon Dynasty.

From where does the establishment of the kingdom of Ravan begin? Which dynasty sows the seed of the kingdom of Ravan? (Someone said – the soul of Ram). Does the soul of Ram sow the seed of the kingdom of Ravan? If the seed of the kingdom of Ravan is laid through the soul of Ram , should it (his kingdom) be called Ravan Rajya (the kingdom of Ravan) or Ramrajya (the kingdom of Ram)? Ramrajya and Ravan Rajya are two kingdoms, of two types, aren’t they? Ramrajya [is established] through Ram and Ravan Rajya [is established] through Ravan. When he is called Ravan, should all the religions sustain under the guidance of Ravan or is there any such religion which does not sustain under its guidance? When ShivBaba comes in this world, only one such dynasty emerges which does not deceive ShivBaba from the beginning to the end.

You children are firm in your Ancient Deity Religion (Devi-Devta Sanatan dharm). Those who are firm Suryavanshis can never deceive [the Father]. If they are weak, they will certainly be included in the group of those who defame the Father to some extent or the other. This is why, it has been said, the one who defames the Sadguru cannot find the accommodation. It is about which accommodation? Those Sanyasis also say, the one who defames the Sadguru cannot find the accommodation. They have no place [of their own] at all; so, when is it about ? It is about the Confluence Age. It means that the Moon Dynasty group, especially among the seed-form souls; will the seed-form Moon dynasty group play a part similar to the part that was played among the root-form souls, or will it play a different part? From the beginning of the Yagya the Suryavanshis and the Chandravanshis separated. Did they separate or not? They separated. Which group did the entire world accept? They accepted the Chandravanshi group, they sustained in the Chandravanshi group; and the Sun and the Sun dynasty group vanished. Similarly, should whatever happened in the beginning happen in the end too, or not? It should happen.

Alaf found Allah (God); whoever wants Bay badshahi (emperorship) can take it. If someone has a great desire to rule, to control. Are there such souls even in the Brahmin world or not who wish that they should control? Were such souls also in the basic knowledge or not? And are they present now or not? There are numerous such souls who wish that the entire world should be under their control. So, when it is directly visible in the basic knowledge to such an extent, will there be such gurus in the advance knowledge too or not? Will they emerge or not, who will have a desire within that everyone should be under their control?

The Father has come; He says, Children, become like the Father. The Father also says, Children you are Brahmins; the duty of the Brahmins is to be a sevadhari . What? You are sevadharis. Even the Father says about Himself, I am your most obedient servant and He also becomes one and sets an example in practical. What? Does He become so and set an example in practical? Will any of the children say that the Father is their obedient servant? They may not say, but they would be feeling so? Do they [feel so]? Do they ever complain that they ring 20 times [to talk to Baba]; [but] we don’t receive the response even once [for our phone calls]. We send e-mails [referring to Baba] 20 times; we do not get a reply to any of our e-mails? So, is He an obedient servant? Is He? He isn’t. (Someone said- because sometime the time is less). It means that He is an obedient servant, but He isn’t ever ready. And will the Father be an ever ready servant or will He be a lazy servant of the children for whom He comes as an obedient servant? (Everyone said – ever ready). Arey! Does anyone like a servant who when ordered to do something, does not perform any task at all [and says] let him blabber, let him speak, I will do it later on? Does anyone like such a servant? Nobody will like.

So, ShivBaba says, Children, I am your most obedient servant. It means that you will never get an obedient servant like this in 84 births. What? [You will not get a servant] who may be sleeping in the night, but even while sleeping, keeps his alarm alert [thinking:] who knows when the alarm may ring, when I may have to work. You will never find such a servant in 84 births, but in this Confluence Age I become your obedient servant. So, will He be an obedient servant of the obedient, loyal, sincere, and the children who obey the orders or will he be a servant of those who give a challenge and come in front ? Whose servant will He become? He comes as an obedient servant of the obedient, loyal, sincere and the children who obey the orders, i.e. the children who maintain all their relationships with the Father. He does not just come, but he also becomes such one in practical. They must even be experiencing it.

Student: Baba, the question was , she will not go to the Confluence Age heaven, will she?
Baba: Why will not the number one obedient, loyal, sincere and the children who obey the orders, the children for whom the Father is playing the part of an obedient servant in practical, go to the Confluence Age heaven?
Student: Jagdamba will go to the Confluence Age heaven, but 16000….
Baba: Will Jagdamba go to the Confluence Age heaven first?
Student: No, she should go ...
Baba: Should she? Should she go first? Will she be included among the eight deities (ashta dev)?
Student: She isn’t among the eight deities.
Baba: When she is not one of the eight deities, how will she be in the heaven first?
Student: Baba, not first; it has been said that the 16000 souls will give protection in the last, won’t they…?
Baba: Arey, it has been said that instead of becoming a part of the [rosary of] 16000 [souls], it is better to be the one among the prosperous subjects (sahukar praja).
Student: Baba, Jagdamba herself will open the gate of heaven; so…
Baba: When will Jagdamba open the gate of heaven? Will she do so when she is under the control of Jagadappa (the World Father) or will she do so when she is out of his control?
Student: Everyone will enter heaven after opening the gate.
Baba: Yes, who will lead even those who open the gate? Will it be the one who plays the part of Jagdamba in practical or will it be the one who is in the list of those who just listen and narrate?
Student: the one who is real.
Baba: One thing is to listen to advance knowledge and to narrate it to others and when the practical test comes, they separate. And the other kind of souls are those who listen to the knowledge as well as narrate it and when the practical test comes, they pass it and show as well. So, who will go to the practical heaven first? The one who pass [ the test] will go [to heaven] first. Those who just love, they show to the world that they are surrendered, but they do not maintain [relationship] till the end. When they do not maintain till the end, they cannot come number one in the list of the achievers either. They will go to the other group.
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 13 Mar 2010

वार्तालाप नं. 469, कलकत्ता, दिनांक 25.12.07

समयः 24.26-27.35
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, मुरली का पॉईंट है, पहले तो मुझे प्रजापिता चाहिए और सूक्ष्मवतनवासी को यहाँ कैसे ले आ सकते हैं? यह तो फरिश्ता है ना? उनको पतित दुनिया में ले आओ तो दोष हो जाए।

बाबा: हाँ। नहीं तो दोष हो जाएगा।
जिज्ञासु: इसका अर्थ क्या है बाबा?
बाबा: दोष का मतलब ये है, शिवबाबा तो सूक्ष्मवतनवासी में तो प्रवेश नहीं करता। सूक्ष्मवतनवासियों में तो आता भी नहीं है। सूक्ष्मवतनवासियों की दुनिया तो फरिश्तों की दुनिया होती है। जो फरिश्तों की दुनिया होती है उनका तो फर्श वालों से कोई रिश्ता ही नहीं तो उनका कोई पाप कर्म बनने की तो बात ही नहीं। मैं तो पतित तन में आता हूँ। क्या? पतित तन वाले होते हैं वो ढ़ेर के ढ़ेर सम्बन्ध जोड़ते हैं या फरिश्तायें ढ़ेर के ढ़ेर सम्बन्ध जोड़ते हैं? जो पतित तन वाले होते हैं वो सम्बन्धों की ढ़ेर लगा देते हैं, बौछार लगा देते हैं। तो सम्बन्ध जहाँ बहुत होंगे दुनिया में वो दुनिया पतित होती है या पावन दुनिया होती है? पतित दुनिया होती है। सतयुग में ढ़ेर के ढ़ेर सम्बन्ध ही नहीं होते। तो दुनिया ही उनकी पावन होती है और वायब्रेशन भी कैसे होंगे? पावन वायब्रेशन होंगे।

तो मैं सूक्ष्मवतन वासी ब्रह्मा में नहीं आता हूँ। किसमें आता हूँ? प्रजापिता में आता हूँ। सारी प्रजा जब तक पतित है और सारी प्रजा की 500 करोड़ आत्माओं में से अंतिम आत्मा भी जब तक पतित है तब तक प्रजापिता चाहिए जरूर इस साकार सृष्टि पर। क्या? 500 करोड़, 700 करोड़ मनुष्यों की जो प्रजा है उसका बाप कौन? प्रजापिता। तो जो परिवार का मुखिया है उसकी ये जिम्मेवारी हो जाती है कि अगर घर में आग लगी हुई हो तो छिटक के बाहर न चला जाए। क्या करेगा? अगर सच्चा बाप है तो अपने आखरी बच्चे को भी सम्भालेगा, आग से बाहर निकाल के छोड़ेगा। तो एक ही सच्चा निकलता है और बाकी तो आत्मा कहते जरूर हैं, मैं आत्मा हूँ। लेकिन परीक्षा भी होगी न आत्मा की? देह देह नहीं, बाप बाप नहीं, माँ माँ नहीं, पत्नी पत्नी नहीं, कोई भी सम्बन्ध नहीं। एक शिवबाबा दूसरा न कोई।

समयः 27.38-28.50
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, शिव एकव्यापी है तो आदि ब्रह्मा में जो गाई हुई है प्रवेशता की वो कैसे बाबा?

बाबा: ये नहीं कहा शिव एकव्यापी है। ये कहा शिवबाबा एकव्यापी है। क्या? बाबा माना ग्रैंडफादर। वो इस सृष्टि पर जब आता है तो माँ के रूप में पार्ट बजाता है तो भल ब्रह्मा के तन में आता है, दादा लेखराज के द्वारा सहनशक्ति का पार्ट बजाता है; वो सम्भव है। लेकिन बाप के रूप में वो सिर्फ एक ही तन में व्यापक है। सर्वव्यापी नहीं हो सकता और सर्वव्यापी होगा तो संसार में प्रत्यक्ष भी नहीं हो सकता। संसार में एक प्रत्यक्ष होगा भगवान के रूप में या अनेक प्रत्यक्ष होंगे? एक प्रत्यक्ष होगा तो सारी दुनिया मानेगी, याद भी करेगी। अगर एक में प्रत्यक्ष नहीं होगा, इसमें-उसमें-3 सारी दुनिया में, सब में प्रत्यक्ष होगा तो किसको याद करेगा? व्यभिचारी बुद्धि बनेगा या अव्यभिचारी बनेगा? व्यभिचारी बन जायेगा।

समयः 38.55-44.45
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, अष्‍ट देव जो हैं वो सारे पुरुष चोला में होगा क्या?

बाबा: पुरुष चोला और स्त्री चोला की यहाँ ज्ञान में बात नहीं होती है। ज्ञान में क्या बात होती है स्पेशल? आत्मिक स्थिति की बात होती है। चाहे पुरुष चोला हो और चाहे स्त्री चोला हो लेकिन भाव, स्वभाव, संस्कार पुरुष का होना चाहिए। पुरुष माना? पुरी, जो शरीर रूपी पुरी है उसमें आनन्द करने वाली आत्मा, सोने वाली आत्मा, विश्राम पाने वाली आत्मा। जो शरीर रूपी पुरी में रह करके विश्राम करता है। बेआराम नहीं, क्या करता है? आराम करता है। वो राम के नजदीक रहने वाला होगा या रावण के नजदीक रहने वाला होगा? राम के नजदीक रहने वाला होगा। तो उसको कहते हैं पुरुष। जो पुरुष आत्मा है वो ऐसे स्वभाव-संस्कार वाली होनी चाहिए कि उसको पुरुष कहा जा सके। नारी नहीं, पुरुष। शरीर की बात नहीं है।
जिज्ञासु: अष्‍ट देव जब प्रत्यक्षता होगा...
बाबा: होगा? अभी हो नहीं रहे हैं?
जिज्ञासु: हो रहा है बाबा लेकिन देव बोला गया है ना। देवी तो नहीं बोला गया।
बाबा: ये किसने कहा देवी है? आप देवी समझते हैं?
जिज्ञासु: नहीं, ऐसी बात नहीं है। लेकिन कोई नारी चोला होगा लेकिन पुरुष स्वभाव, संस्कार होगा तो देव के रूप में पूजा मिलेगा क्‍याॽ
बाबा: हाँ तो उसको पुरुष कहेंगे आप; आप आत्मा अभिमानी हैं, आप उसको शरीर रूपी पुरी में रहने वाला पुरुषार्थी पुरुष कहेंगे या नारी कहेंगे?
जिज्ञासु: पुरुष।
बाबा: आप पुरुष कहेंगे तो पुरुष ही रहना चाहिए। (किसीने कहा- रिज्युविनेट हो जायेगा।) हाँ, जब टाईम आयेगा तो रिज्युविनेट भी हो जायेगा।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा ने बोला ना चार जोड़े निकलते हैं। चार मेल, चार फीमेल होगा ना?
बाबा: हाँ तो?
जिज्ञासु: माना शरीर से होगा ना ऐसे?
बाबा: अच्छा स्वभाव-संस्कार से नहीं होगा, शरीर हमें चाहिए? हम आस लगाए बैठे हैं।
जिज्ञासु: 296 कैसेट में आपने बोला कि अष्‍ट देव में जो 8 होते हैं, चार जोड़े। चार मेल, चार फीमेल, भाई-भाई के रूप में होते हैं।
बाबा: हाँ, भाई-2 के रूप में तो होते हैं, आत्मा-2 भाई-2 लेकिन वो आत्मा-2 भाई-2 होंगे या आत्मा देह भाई-बहन होंगे? आत्मा-2 भाई-2 इस रूप में होंगे कि चाहे विजयमाला के 4 मुखिया हो... अरे, रुद्रमाला में से चार मुखिया होंगे; चार, पहले चार तो विजयमाला में से पहले चार नहीं होंगे? होंगे ना? तो जो विजयमाला से चार होंगे उनकी जोड़ी, वो चार आत्मायें और जो रुद्रमाला से चार होंगे उनकी जोड़ी मिल करके विजयमाला के दाने बनेंगे। उनकी बात है। रुद्रमाला में तो सारे पुरुष ही पुरुष है। स्त्री कोई है ही नहीं और जो रुद्रमाला वालों को भी स्त्री चोले के रूप में देखते हैं उनका अपना देहभान उनको आकर्षित करता है। वो किसीके कंट्रोल में आने वाले नहीं है। जो रुद्रमाला के मणके होंगे वो कोई के कंट्रोल में रहने वाले होंगे या राजा स्वभाव के होंगे? राजा स्वभाव के होंगे। तुम्हें बनना हो तो उनकी रानी भले बनो। बाकी बित-2 करने की जरूरत नहीं है।
जिज्ञासु: लेकिन बाबा 296 कैसेट में बोले थे कि भाई-2 के स्टेज में योगीश्वर के साथ योगीनी बहन भी है।
बाबा: हाँ तो? जिज्ञासु: वो तो अष्‍ट देव का जोड़ी हिसाब से बोला है ना?
बाबा: तो क्या हुआ? माना जो पुरुष है वो स्त्री का पार्ट नहीं बजाए सकता? स्वभाव-संस्कार की बात है। है स्वभाव-संस्कार। ऐसा स्वभाव-संस्कार है जो कोई के कंट्रोल में रहना पसंद नहीं करता।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा मेजॉरिटी स्त्री चोला होगा अष्‍ट देव में। एक कैसेट में बोला।
बाबा: जो अभी तक देखने में आ रहा है रिजल्ट, यज्ञ के आदि में जितने भी पुरुष थे वो सब फ्रंट में चले गये, एडवांस के आदि में जितने भी पुरुष थे वो सब धराशायी हो गए और अभी भी जो भी पुरुष चोले में हैं वो अपनी दुर्योधन-दुःशासन वृत्ति छोड़ते नहीं है। कन्याओं-माताओं के ऊपर कंट्रोल करना जैसे उनका जन्म सिद्ध अधिकार है। भगवान बाप भी बीच में आ जाए तो भी मानने वाले नहीं है। देहभान आ ही जाता है, दुर्योधन-दुःशासन वृत्ति आ ही जाती है। उस हिसाब से बताया कि ऐसा हो सकता है। होना नहीं चाहिए क्योंकि आत्मा-2 भाई-2 का पुरुषार्थ करेंगे तो क्यों नहीं प्राप्ति करे? ये कोई जरूरी थोड़ी है कि त्रैमासिक परीक्षा में जो फेल हो जाए, छःमाही परीक्षा में जो फेल हो जाए वो फायनल में भी फेल हो जायेगा। ऐसे सोचने का तो कोई कारण नहीं है।

Disc.CD No.469, dated 25.12.09 at Calcutta

Time: 24.26-27.35
Student: Baba, there is a Murli point, first I require Prajapita and how can I bring the Subtle Region dweller here? This one is an angel, isn’t he? If he is brought to the sinful world, it will be a sin (dosh).

Baba: Yes, it will be a sin.
Student: Baba, what is meant by this ?
Baba: Dosh (sin) means that ShivBaba does not enter the Subtle Region dweller. He does not enter Subtle Region dwellers at all. The world of Subtle Region dwellers is a world of angels (farishta). The world of angels does not have any relationship (rishta) at all with those who live on the earth (farsh); so there is no question of accumulating sins for them at all. I come in a sinful body. What? Do those with a sinful body establish numerous relationships or do the angels establish numerous relationships? Those who have a sinful body establish numerous relationships, they shower [relationships]. So, where there are numerous relationships in the world, is that world sinful or pure? The world is sinful. There are not numerous relationships at all in the Golden Age. So, their very world is pure and how will the vibrations be? The vibrations will be pure.

So, I do not enter in the Subtle Region dweller Brahma. In whom do I come? I come in Prajapita. As long as all the subjects are sinful and as long as even the last soul among 500 crore (5 billion) souls is sinful, Prajapita is certainly required in this corporeal world. What? Who is the Father of the 500 crore, 700 crore (7 billion) human beings who are subjects? Prajapita. So, it is the responsibility of the head of the family that if the house is burning, he should not move out and run away. What will he do? If he is a true Father, he will take care of even the last child; he will rest only after he brings him out of the fire. So, only one turns out to be true and the remaining souls do say they are souls. But the soul will be tested as well, won’t it? The body is not ‘my body’, the Father is not ‘my Father’, the mother is not ‘my mother’, the wife is not ‘my wife’; there should not be any relationship. One ShivBaba and no one else.

Time: 27.38-28.50
Student: Baba, if Shiva is present in one, then what about the praise that Shiva entered the first Brahma (Adi Brahma) [in the beginning]?

Baba: It has not been said that Shiv is ekvyapi (i.e. present in one). It has been said that ShivBaba is ekvyaapi. What? Baba means grandfather. When He comes in this world, He plays a part in the form of a mother. So, although He comes in the body of Brahma, although He plays the part of tolerance through Dada Lekhraj, that is possible. But in the form of a Father, He is present only in one body. He cannot be omnipresent and if He is omnipresent, He cannot be revealed in the world either. Will one [personality] be revealed in the world in the form of God or will many [personalities] be revealed? If one [personality] is revealed [as God], the entire world will accept [him]; the entire world will also remember Him. If He is not revealed through one [personality], if He is revealed in this one , in that one in the entire world, if he is revealed through everyone, whom will you remember [as God]? Will you become the one with an adulterous intellect or will you become unadulterated ? He will become adulterous (vyabhichari).

Time: 38.55-44.45
Student: Baba, will the eight deities (ashta dev) be in male bodies?
Baba: There is no question of male body or female body in the knowledge here. What is considered especially in the knowledge? There is consideration of the soul conscious stage. Whether it is a male body or a female body, but the manners, the nature, and the sanskars should be of a male (purush). What does purush mean? The soul which enjoys, the soul that sleeps, the soul that rests in the puri (abode), the abode-like body (shareeer roopi puri).The one who rests while living in the abode-like body. It is not restless (beaaram); what does it do? It rests (aaram). Will it be the one to remain close to Ram or close to Ravan? It will be the one to remain close to Ram. So, it is called purush. The purush soul should have such nature and sanskars that it could be called purush. Not a female, but a male (purush). It is not a question of the body.
Student: When the eight deities are revealed in future….
Baba: In future? Are they not being revealed now?
Student: Baba, they are being revealed [now], but they have been called ‘dev’ (male deities), haven’t they? They have not been called devi (female deities).
Baba: Who said that they are female deities? Do you think they are female deities?
Student: No. It is not so. But if there is someone with a female body, and yet the nature and sanskars are of a male, will she receive worship in the form of a dev?

Baba: Yes. So, will you call it purush? Are you soul conscious; will you call it a purusharthi purush (the one who makes special effort for the soul) living in the abode-like body or will you call it a female?
Student: Purush.
Baba: You will call it purush, so it should be purush only. (Someone said- it will rejuvenate). Yes, when the time comes, it will rejuvenate too.
Student: Baba has said that four couples emerge. They will be four males, four females, won’t they ?
Baba: Yes, so what?
Student: It means, they will be so (male and female) through the body, won’t they ?
Baba : OK, it will not be enough through nature and sanskars; we want it through the body . We are hopefully waiting.
Student: You have said in Cassette No.296, the eight deities included in [the list of] ashta dev are four couples. Four males, four females; they are in the form of brothers.

Baba: Yes, they are in the form of brothers; souls are brothers among themselves , but will they be souls in the form of brothers or will they be a soul and a body in the form of a brother and a sister ? They will be souls in the form of brothers; whether they are the four main [souls] of the Vijaymala (rosary of victory)........arey, when there are four main ones from the Rudramala (the rosary of Rudra), the first four; will there not be the first four from the Vijaymala? They will be present, will they not ? So, the couples formed by the four souls from the Vijaymala and the couples of the four [souls] from the Rudramala will combine and become the beads of the Vijaymala. It is about them. Rudramala consists entirely of males [in an unlimited sense]. There is no female at all. And those who see the members of Rudramala too as females, it is their body consciousness which attracts them. They are not going to come under anyone’s control . Will the beads of the Rudramala be the ones who remain under anybody’s control or will they have the nature of kings? They will have the nature of kings. If you wish, you may become their queen. As for the rest, there is no need to have this body conscious urge.
Student: But Baba had said in the cassette no. 296 that there is sister Yogini (female yogi) also along with Yogishwar (the controller of the yogis) in the brother-like stage.

Baba: Yes, so what?
Student: It has been said in account of couples among the eight deities, hasn’t it?
Baba: So, what happened? Does it mean that a man cannot play a part of a women? It is about the nature and sanskars. They have [such] nature and sanskars. They have such nature and sanskar that they do not like to remain under anybody’s control.
Student: Baba, the majority among the eight deities will have female bodies. It has been said so in a cassette.
Baba: As per the result that is being observed so far, all the men who were there in the beginning of the Yagya went against the Father (i.e. left the Yagya); all the men in the beginning of the advance [party] failed (i.e. left the Yagya) and even now all those who are in male bodies do not give up their attitude of Duryodhan-Dushasan (villainous characters in the epic Mahabharat). They feel that it is their birth right to control the virgins and mothers. They are not going to accept even if God the Father comes in between. They do develop body consciousness; they do develop the attitude of Duryodhan-Dushasan . That way it has been said that it can happen like that. It should not happen like this because if they make purusharth (special effort for the soul) to become souls in the form of brothers, why should they not achieve attainments? It is not necessary that if someone fails in the quarterly exam, in the half-yearly exam, he will also fail in the annual exam. There is no reason to think so.
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

[1] The first letter in the Urdu language, here, the hero actor Prajapita.
[2] The second letter in the Urdu language.
[3] The one who does service.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 15 Mar 2010

वार्तालाप नं. 469, कलकत्ता, दिनांक 25.12.07

समयः 51.53-53.15
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, आज 25 दिसम्बर है। तो सैंटा क्लॉज़ (Santa Claus) का जो गायन होता है, उसका बेहद का अर्थ क्या है?

बाबा: जो भी होता है वो संगमयुग में होता है प्रैक्टिकल में या भक्तिमार्ग में प्रैक्टिकल होता है? भक्तिमार्ग में स्थूल रूप में होता है और ज्ञानमार्ग में सूक्ष्म रूप में होता है। भक्तिमार्ग में सैंटा क्लॉज़ दिखाते हैं तो क्या दिखाते हैं? स्थूल खिलौने लाता है, दिखावे के खिलौने लाता है या उन खिलौनों से अविनाशी प्राप्ति होती है? दिखाने के, दिखावे के, अल्प काल के प्राप्ति, अल्पकाल की आँखों की खुशी देने वाले खिलौने आते हैं। लेकिन असली सान्‍ता क्रुज (Santa Claus) कौन है? शिवबाबा। और वो बूड्ढ़े के तन में दिखाते हैं या नौजवान तन में दिखाते हैं? बूढ़े के तन में दिखाते हैं। तो उसकी उम्र कितनी हो रही होगी जब वो सान्‍ता क्रुज के रूप में खिलौने लायेगा? कितनी उम्र होगी? अरे, अन्दाजिया कितनी उम्र हुई होगी? (सभी: 60 से उपर ।) हाँ जी।

समयः 53.17-54.45
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, क्लास हमारा कौनसा होता है? सेंटर में जैसे क्लास करते हैं और गीता पाठशाला में भी। घर में अकेले कहीं रहते हैं तो वो क्लास है क्या? तो क्लास कौनसा कहा जाता है?

बाबा: एक फर्स्ट-क्लास क्लास कहा गया, एक सेकेण्ड-क्लास क्लास कहा गया, एक गुड सेकेण्ड-क्लास क्लास है और एक थर्ड-क्लास क्लास है। थर्ड-क्लास क्लास कौनसा है? नहीं मालूम?
जिज्ञासु: जैसे चार्ट में लिखते हैं, क्लास करते हैं या नहीं तो वो कौनसा क्लास है?

बाबा: वो तो रेग्युलैरिटि पूछी गई। कोई भी क्लास। थर्ड-क्लास हो या सेकेण्ड क्लास हो या फर्स्ट क्लास हो, रेग्युलैरिटि पूछी गई - करते हैं या नहीं करते हैं?
जिज्ञासु: घर में करने से भी क्लास हो जाता है?
बाबा: गीतापाठशाला में भी क्लास करने गए और इधर-उधर दृष्टि जा रही है तो वो फर्स्ट-क्लास क्लास है या सेकेण्ड-क्लास क्लास है या थर्ड-क्लास क्लास है या वो भी नहीं है? (सभी: वो भी नहीं है।) और घर में बैठके अकेले दत्तचित्त हो करके बाबा की मुरली सुन ली, मनन चिंतन मंथन करते रहे। स्वेटर भी नहीं बुना, कोई काम भी नहीं किया, सारी ताकत वाणी सुनने में ही लगा दी तो वो फर्स्ट-क्लास, सेकेण्ड-क्लास या थर्ड-क्लास या क्लास में जाने वाले से ज्‍यादा अच्छा है? (सभी- अच्छा है।)

समयः 55.08-57.34
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, हम सेवा करना चाहते हैं, किसीको सन्देश देना चाहते हैं ज्ञान का तो किस आधार से करें, किस शक्ति का अधार लें?

बाबा: भक्तिमार्ग में कहते हैं, सबते सेवक धर्म कठोरा। क्या? जो कर्म किये जाते हैं उन कर्मों में सबसे कठोर धर्म कौनसा है? सेवा का धर्म, सेवक। राजा का धर्म इतना कठोर नहीं है लेकिन जो सेवक है, सेवाधारी है, उसका धर्म बहुत कठोर है और वो कठोर कर्म, कठोर धर्म का निर्वहन सबसे अव्वल नं. करने वाला कौन है? है तो बहुत कठोर लेकिन अव्वल नं. वो धर्म का पालन करने वाली कौनसी आत्मा है? (किसी ने कहा- राम।) राम की आत्मा नहीं। शिवबाबा। आय एम यॉर मोस्ट ओबिडियंट सर्वेंट।

तो सेवक में सबसे बड़ा गुण कौनसा होना चाहिए? सहनशक्ति। कहीं भी जाए, जिसकी सेवा करे वो 10 शब्द हमको, 20 शब्द हमको विरोध के बोल दे, हमारे जूता मारने वाले शब्द कह दे तो भी हम सहन कर जाए। जैसे माँ बच्चे की पालना करती है। बच्चा आँख में उंगली घुसेड़ देता है, बाल पकड़ लेता है, नाक पकड़ लेता है, गोद में लैट्रिन कर लेता है। माँ उसको थप्पड़ मारती है क्या? प्यार से पालना करती है ना? तो जो सेवाधारी है उसको पहला-2 गुण धारण करना है सहनशक्ति का और मन्‍सा पावर के साथ वाचा की पावर करे, तब ही असर होगा। मन के अन्दर प्यार नहीं है, सिर्फ वाचा चल रही है और अन्दर से गुस्सा भरा हुआ है कि ये ज्ञान में आ जाए तब हम इसकी सम्पत्ति लूटे अच्छी तरह से।

Disc.CD No.469, dated 25.12.09 at Calcutta

Time: 51.53-53.15
Student: Baba, today it is 25th December. So, what is meant by Santa Claus in who is praised?

Baba: Whatever happens [in the world], does it happen in the Confluence Age or in the path of Bhaktiin practical? In the path of Bhakti it takes place in a physical sense and in the path of knowledge it takes place in a subtle form. How is Santa Claus depicted in the path of Bhakti? Does he bring material toys, toys which are toys for show-off or do we attain imperishable attainment through those toys ? Toys that are just for showing-off, for temporary attainments, to give joy to the eyes temporarily are brought by him. But who is the true Santa Claus? ShivBaba. Moreover, is he shown to be having an old body or a young body? He is shown to be having an old body. So, what would be his age when he brings toys in the form of Santa Claus? What will be his age? Arey, what would be his age approximately? (Everyone said – above 60 years). Yes.

Time: 53.17-54.45
Student: Baba, which one is considered our class? For example, we attend class at the center as well as in the Gita pathshala. If we attend the class alone at home sometimes; is that considered a class? So, which one [among these] is considered a class?

Baba: One is a first-class class, one is second-class class, one is a good second-class class and one is a third-class class. Which one is the third-class class? Don't you know?
Student: For example we write in the chart, whether we attend the class or not; so, about which class is that?
Baba: The regularity has been asked about. It could be any class. Whether it is third class or second class or first class; the regularity has been asked: whether you attend the class [regularly] or not?
Student: Is it considered a class even if we attend the class at home?

Baba: If we go to the Gita pathshala for class and if we are seeing here and there; then, is it a first-class class or second-class class or third-class class or not even that? (Everyone said - It is not even that). But, if you sat at your home and listened to Baba's Murli alone with concentration; if you kept thinking and churning about it. You did not knit a sweater, did not do any work either, if you focused all your energy just on listening to the Vani, then is it a first class, second class or third class or is it far better than the person going to a class? (Everyone said - It is better ).

Time: 55.08-57.34
Student: Baba, I want to do service, I want to give the message about the knowledge to someone. So, on what basis can I do this? Which power should I use as a support?

Baba: It is said in the path of Bhakti, sabte sevak dharma kathora (the duty of a servant is the most difficult one). What? Which is the most difficult one among all the actions that are performed? The duty of ‘service’; [of a] servant. The duty of a king is not so difficult, but the duty of a servant, a server is very difficult and who is no. 1 in carrying on that difficult action, difficult dharma (duty)? It is no doubt very difficult, but which soul is number one in following that dharma? (Someone said - Ram). Not the soul of Ram. ShivBaba. [He says] I am your most obedient servant.

So, which is the biggest virtue that a servant should inculcate? The power of tolerance. Wherever we go, whichever person we serve, he may speak 10, 20 words against us, he may speak words which may appear to be hitting us like a shoe, even then we should tolerate. For example, a mother takes care of the child. The child pokes his finger in the eyes [of the mother], catches her hairs, catches her nose, and passes stools in her lap. Does the mother slap him? She takes care of him affectionately, doesn't she? So, the servers (sevadharis) should first of all imbibe the virtue of power of tolerance and if we use the power of mind along with the power of words; only then will there be any effect. If there is no love in the heart, just speech is being used and if there is anger filled inside [thinking:] if this person enters the path of knowledge, we will loot his property nicely.
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 16 Mar 2010

वार्तालाप नं. 469, कलकत्ता, दिनांक 25.12.07

समयः 57.39-58.38
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, संकल्पों की शूटिंग होती है या हम प्रैक्टिकल में जो कर्म करते हैं उसकी शूटिंग होती है?

बाबा: संगमयुग में हम अच्छे संकल्प भी करते हैं और बुरे संकल्प भी करते हैं। जो श्रीमत के अनुसार अच्छे संकल्प करते हैं, क्या? श्रीमत के अनुकूल अच्छे संकल्प करते हैं तो उनका रिजल्ट जो है वो सतयुग, त्रेता में मिलेगा या द्वापर, कलियुग में मिलेगा? सतयुग, त्रेता में मिलेगा और श्रीमत के बरखिलाफ जो कर्म करते हैं या संकल्प करते हैं तो उसका रिजल्ट कहाँ मिलेगा? द्वापर, कलियुग में रिजल्ट मिलेगा।

समयः 58.39-01.00.09
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, अष्‍ट देव का भाई-2 स्टेज है ना।

बाबा: हांजी।
जिज्ञासु: तो उसकी निशानी बाहर से क्या दिखाई देगी?
बाबा: जो भाई-2 की स्टेज वाला होगा वो आपस में देहभान में आ करके एक दूसरे के देह को प्यार करेगा? करेगा?
जिज्ञासु: नहीं।
बाबा: नहीं करेगा। तो ये निशानी हो गई।
जिज्ञासु: और कुछ निशानी?
बाबा: सबसे पहली तो निशानी नष्टोमोहा स्मृतिलब्धा है ना? देह से भी नष्टोमोहा, देह के सुख से भी नष्टोमोहा। देह का कोई सुख नहीं चाहिए। सम्बन्ध से भी नष्टोमोहा; सम्बन्ध का कोई सुख नहीं चाहिए किसीसे। अगर सम्बन्धों का भी सुख चाहिए तो किससे चाहिए? एक से चाहिए या दूसरों से चाहिए? एक से चाहिए। अष्‍ट देवों की जब कहीं भी कोई बात आती हो तो पहला गुण आगे रखना है। क्योंकि पहले-2 उनका रिजल्ट निकलता है। जब परीक्षा होती है तो वो कौनसे प्रश्न में, कौनसी परीक्षा में पहले पास होते हैं? नष्टोमोहा स्मृतिलब्धा। उनका सारे पुरुषार्थी जीवन का आकलन किया जाए, आदि से ले करके अंत तक; कौनसा गुण विशेष दिखाई देगा उनका? नष्टोमोहा स्मृतिलब्धा।

समयः 01.01.03 -01.03.24
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, कर्मेन्द्रिय से कर्म करते-2 याद करना, ये ज्यादा पावरफुल है या एक जगह पर बैठके, एक विशेष टाईम पर बैठके याद करना वो ज्यादा पावरफुल है?

बाबा: बैठके याद करना इसका मतलब है कि हमने कर्मेन्द्रियों से कोई कर्म नहीं किया। आत्मा ने सिर्फ मन-बुद्धि रूपी आत्मा से अव्यक्त कर्म किया। मन-बुद्धि रूपी आत्मा सिर्फ पार्ट बजाती हो और कर्मेन्द्रियों से कोई कर्म न करती हो तो उसे प्रवृत्तिमार्ग कहेंगे या निवृत्तिमार्ग कहेंगे? निवृत्तिमार्ग। ये निवृत्तिमार्ग का कर्म सन्यासी करने में ज्यादा एक्स्पर्ट होते हैं। उससे ये साबित नहीं हुआ कि हमने कर्मेन्द्रियों के ऊपर जीत पाई। साबित होगा? नहीं साबित होगा। वो सन्यासी ऐसा कर्म करने में बड़े एक्स्पर्ट होते हैं। लेकिन जो प्रवृत्तिमार्ग के पक्के होंगे वो बाबा की बात पर ज्यादा विश्वास रखेंगे। बाबा ने बोला है, प्रवृत्ति में रहते हुए, कर्मेन्द्रियों से कर्म करते हुए मन को जीतना है, श्रेष्ठ संकल्प करना है। लेकिन शर्त ये है कि कर्म जो भी हम कर रहे हैं वो कर्म व्यर्थ कर्म तो नहीं हैं? क्योंकि बाप हमें व्यर्थ कर्म करना नहीं सिखाते। व्यर्थ कर्म करना सिखाते हैं या समर्थ कर्म करना सिखाते हैं? कर्म ऐसा हो जिसमें से रिजल्ट अच्छा निकले। ऐसा कर्म न हो जो रिजल्ट में दुखदायी हो जाए।

समयः 01.03.26 -01.04.22
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, शिवबाबा को निराकारी स्टेज के कारण कपड़ा नहीं दिखाया है लेकिन इधर तरफ दिखाया है, काली जो... काली होती है उसको भी कपड़ा नहीं दिखाया है।

बाबा: उसको हाथ दिखाते हैं ना कपड़े के रूप में? हाथ माने क्या? भुजा। माना भगवान की भुजायें काट-2 करके उसने अपना सहयोगी बना लिया। वो ऐसा सहयोग करती है महाकाली का कि उसके गुप्त अंग दिखाई नहीं पड़ते किसीको। माना दुष्टकर्म उसका वो भुजायें छिपाय लेती है, भ्रष्ट कर्मेंद्रियों से किया हुआ दुष्‍ट कर्म भुजायें छिपाती है। कपड़े की दरकार नहीं है।

समयः 01.04.25 -01.05.16
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, याद में सारे परिणाम समाया है। इसमें क्या ज्ञान, योग, धारणा, सेवा चारों सब्जेक्ट आ जायेगा?

बाब: याद में जो रहने वाला है उसकी आखरी जो स्टेज बनेगी उसमें वो मुख से कुछ भी न बोले और किसीको यूँ एक आँख से एक सेकेण्ड के लिए देख ले तो जिसको एक सेकेण्ड के लिए वो दृष्टि पड़ेगी वो परिवर्तित होगा या नहीं होगा? (सभी: होगा।) कर्म किया क्या? नहीं किया। कर्म भी नहीं किया, न ज्ञानेन्द्रिय से कोई खास कर्म किया, न कर्मेन्द्रियों से कोई खास कर्म किया, लेकिन रिजल्ट? रिजल्ट अच्छा आया।

समयः 01.07.22 -01.11.26
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, एक मुरली में आया, ब्रह्मा चतुरानन भी हो सकता है और पंचानन भी हो सकता है। तो उसमें बाबा आपने बोला है यज्ञ के आदि में 2 ब्रह्मा, अंत में 2 ब्रह्मा और बीच में दादा लेखराज। तो आदि में वो 2 ब्रह्मा कौन हुए? जो सेवकराम, गीतामाता तो थे ही थे और भी 2 आत्मायें थे जो आदि में ब्रह्मा बाबा और मम्मी को ड्रिल कराते थे। जरूर उसमें कोई पावर थी जो ब्रह्मा बाबा और मम्मा को ड्रिल कराते थे। तो वो आत्मायें कौन हुए? उनको ब्रह्मा नहीं कहेंगे क्या?

बाबा: आदि वाले ब्रह्मा जो ड्रिल कराने वाले थे वो ही आदि वाले अंत में दिखाई पड़ते हैं। आदि सो अंत। जो आदि में... आदि, आदि में शुरु वाले; वो ही अंत में भी शुरु वाले। उन दो को अलग कर दो। तो आदि में अंत वाले ब्रह्मा कौन हुए? आदि में अंतिम पार्ट बजाने वाले ब्रह्मा कौन हुए? अरे, हुए कि नहीं हुए? (किसी ने कहा- हाँ।) कौन-2 हुए? वास्तव में जो ब्रह्मा का प्रैक्टिकल पार्ट ही नहीं बजाता उसका नाम पहले ले दिया। ( किसी ने कहा: जगदम्बा।) जगदम्‍बाॽ जगदम्बा तो आदि में हैं या अंत वाला पार्ट बजाने में हैं? वो तो आदि वाले वो कहे गए- ऐसे-2 बच्चे थे जो मम्मा-बाबा को भी ड्रिल कराते थे, टीचर बनकरके बैठते थे। 10 वर्ष से रहने वाला, ध्यान में जाती थी। उनमें बाबा प्रवेश करते थे। माना आदि वाले तो वो हुए जो पहले-2 थे और अंत वाले कौन हुए? ब्रह्मा और सरस्वती। आदि में ही चारों निश्चित थे। वो आदि वाले भी थे और अंत वाले भी थे। लेकिन बीच में एक और था। वो कौन रह गया? वो आदि में भी प्रत्यक्ष नहीं और मध्य में भी प्रत्यक्ष नहीं होता, अंत में ही जाके प्रत्यक्ष होता है। अंत में जा करके वाणियों के द्वारा क्लियर होता है कि जो तीन मूर्तियाँ है, उन तीन मूर्तियों में वो कौन? (किसी ने कहा- बाबा, वो छोटी माँ होगी ना।) छोटी माँ हुई ना? (किसी ने कहा – हाँ।) तो कितने ब्रह्मा हो गए? 5 ब्रह्मा हो गए। उन 5 ब्रह्मा में से एक का सर उड़ाय दिया जाता है। सर उड़ाना माना आत्मा अलग और शरीर अलग। बाकी ब्रह्मा के ब्रह्मा ही रहते हैं।

ब्रह्मा माना देह अभिमानी या आत्मा अभिमानी? ब्रह्मा माने देह अभिमानी। दाढ़ी-मूँछ वाला ब्रह्मा दिखाया जाता है। तो चार हो गए देह अभिमानी और एक ब्रह्मा की स्टेज से ऊँचा उठ गया। वो कौन? यज्ञ के आदि में ही अलफ को मिला अल्लाह, बे को मिली बादशाही। वो चार भुजाओं को चलाने वाला है। वो चार भुजायें हैं विष्णु- प्रैक्टिकल में मददगार। किसकी मददगार? प्रजापिता की मददगार। तो प्रजापिता वाली आत्मा वो हुई नेक्स्ट टू गॉड। बाकी जो चार ब्रह्मा हुए उनको प्रजापिता ब्रह्मा नहीं कहेंगे। उनको नेक्स्ट टू ग़ॉड नहीं कहेंगे।

Disc.CD No.469, dated 25.12.09 at Calcutta

Time: 57.39-58.38
Student: Baba, does the shooting of thoughts takes place or does the shooting of the actions that we perform in practical take place?

Baba: We create good as well as bad thoughts in the Confluence Age. Those who create good thoughts in accordance with the Shrimat; what? If we create good thoughts in accordance with the Shrimat, will we receive its result in the Golden Age and Silver Age or in the Copper Age and Iron Age? We will attain the result in the Golden Age and the Silver Age and if we perform actions or create thoughts against the Shrimat, then, when will we attain its result? We will attain the result in the Copper Age and the Iron Age.

Time: 58.39-01.00.09
Student: Baba, the eight deities (ashta dev) are in the stage of brothers among themselves, aren’t they?

Baba: Yes.
Student: So, what will be its external indications?
Baba: Will the one who is in a stage of being brothers, become body conscious and love the body of others ? Will he?
Student: No.
Baba: He will not. So, this is an indication.
Student: Is there any other indication ?
Baba: The first and foremost indication is nashtomoha smritilabdha (attaining victory over attachment and regaining remembrance), isn’t it? Nashtomoha (gaining victory over attachment) from the body, nashtomoha from the bodily pleasure as well. [There should be a feeling:] there is no need of any bodily pleasure. We should be nashtomoha even through the relationships [thinking:] we do not want any pleasure of relationship through anyone. Even if we want the pleasure of relationship , through whom do we want it? Do we want it from [the] one or through others? We want it from [the] one. Whenever any topic of the eight deities emerges , this is the first virtue that should be kept in front because first of all their result comes out. When an exam takes place, in which question, in which exam do they pass first? [They pass the paper of] nashtomoha smritilabdha. If their entire purusharthi life (life of doing special effort for the soul) is analyzed from the beginning to the end, which virtue will be especially visible in them? Nashtomoha smritilabdha.

Time: 01.01.03-01.03.24
Student: Baba, is remembering [Baba] while performing actions through the organs of actions more powerful or is remembering [Baba] while sitting at a particular place at a particular time more powerful?

Baba: Sitting and remembering means we did not perform any action through the organs of action. The soul performed just Avyakt (unmanifest) actions through the soul in the form of mind and intellect. If the soul in the form of the mind and intellect plays its part alone and does not perform any action through the organs of action, will it be called a path of household (pravritti marg) or a path of renunciation (nivritti marg)? [It will be called] a path of renunciation. The sanyasis are more expert in performing this act of the path of renunciation. It does not prove that we gained victory over the organs of action. Will it be proved? It will not be proved. Those sanyasis are very expert in performing such actions. But those who are firm in the path of household will have more faith in Baba’s versions. Baba has said, while living in a household, while performing actions through the organs of action, we have to gain victory over the mind, we have to create righteous thoughts. But the condition is that whatever actions we are performing, are those actions wasteful actions? Because the Father does not teach us to perform wasteful actions; does He teach us to perform wasteful actions or to perform meaningful actions? Actions should be such that they bring out a good result. It should not be such an action that its result is sorrowful.

Time: 01.03.26-01.04.22
Student: Baba, ShivBaba has not been shown wearing clothes because of his incorporeal stage but here, it has been shown, [Goddess] Kali who is….Kali has not been shown to be wearing clothes either.

Baba: She is shown to be wearing hands in the form of clothes, isn’t she? What is meant by hands (haath)? Arm (bhuja). It means that she cut-off the arms of God and made them her helpers. They extend such help to Mahakali (a goddess) that her secret organs are not visible to anyone. It means that those arms (i.e. her helper souls) hide her wicked actions; the arms hide the bad actions performed by her through the unrighteous organs. There is no need for clothes as such.

Time: 01.04.25-01.05.16
Student: Baba, all the results are merged in remembrance; does it include all the four subjects like knowledge, Yoga, dharna (inculcation), seva (service)?

Baba: The last stage of the one who remains in remembrance , in that [stage] even if he does not speak anything through the mouth and he sees someone like this (indicating something) through the eyes for a second, then will the person whom he sees for a second be transformed or not? (Everyone said – He will). Did he perform any action? He did not. He did not perform any action either; neither did he perform any special action through the sense organs, nor did he perform any special action through the bodily organs, but what about the result? The result obtained was good.

Time: 01.07.22-01.11.26
Student: Baba, it has been mentioned in a Murli , Brahma can be four-headed (chaturanan) as well as five-headed (panchaanan). So Baba, you have said in it, there were 2 Brahmas in the beginning of the Yagya, two Brahmas in the end and Dada Lekhraj in the middle . So, who were the two Brahmas in the beginning? Sevakram (partner of Dada Lekhraj Brahma) and Gitamata were certainly there, and there were two more souls also in the beginning, who used to make Brahma Baba and Mummy (Om Radhe Mama) to perform the drill [of remembrance]. Certainly they had some power with which they used to make Brahma Baba and Mama to perform drill. So, who are those souls? Will they not be called Brahma?

Baba: The same Brahmas in the beginning, who used to enable the drill appear in the end. Whatever happens in the beginning happens in the end. Those who were in the beginning…..the beginners, those in the beginning are themselves the beginners in the end as well. Separate those two . So, who were the last Brahmas in the beginning? Who were the Brahmas who played the last part in the beginning? Arey, did they exist or not? (Someone said – Yes). Who were they? The name of the one who does not play the practical part of Brahma at all in reality, was uttered first. ( Someone said: Jagdamba). Is Jagdamba in the beginning or is she included among those who play a part in the end? The earliest ones were the ones about whom it has been said, there were such children who used to make Mama-Baba to perform the drill too; they used to sit as teachers. The one (a male) who used to live [with him] for 10 years; she used to go into trance; Baba used to enter in them. It means that the earliest ones are those who were present first of all and who are the last ones? Brahma and Saraswati. All the four were fixed in the very beginning . Those first ones and the last ones were also present. But there was one more in between. Who was that? He is not revealed in the beginning and not in the middle either; he is revealed only in the end. Only in the end it becomes clear through the Vanis as to who is that personality among the three personalities. (Someone said – she will be choti ma, i.e. the junior mother, won’t she?) It is the junior mother, isn’t she? (Someone said- Yes.) So, how many Brahmas are there? There are 5 Brahmas. Among those 5 Brahmas, the head of one is cut-off. Cutting-off the head means that the soul becomes separate and the body becomes separate. All the remaining ones remain Brahma .

Does Brahma mean a body conscious one or a soul conscious one? Brahma means a body conscious one. Brahma is shown to have a beard and moustache. So, four are body conscious ones and one rose above the stage of Brahma. Who is he? In the very beginning of the Yagya , Alaf (first letter in the Urdu language) found Allah (God), Be (the second letter in the Urdu language) got badshahi (i.e. emperorship). He (Alaf) is the one who operates the four arms. Those four arms are Vishnu, the helpers in practical. Whose helpers? Helpers of Prajapita. So, the soul of Prajapita is next to God. The remaining four Brahmas will not be called Prajapita Brahma. They will not be called next to God.

Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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