Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

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arjun
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 23 Sep 2011

वार्तालाप-540, कलकत्ता, पार्ट-1, दिनांक.24.03.08
उद्धरण-भाग-4


समयः 50.58-57.03
जिज्ञासुः ब्रह्माबाबा की सोल गुल्ज़ार दादी में प्रवेश कर के वाणी चलाता है।

बाबा- हाँ, जी।
जिज्ञासु- लेकिन वो मन, बुद्धि से शिवबाप से कम्बाइन्ड रहती है।
बाबाः याद में रहती है।
जिज्ञासु- याद में रहती है।
बाबा- हाँ, जी।
जिज्ञासुः लेकिन, बाप, शिवबाप कहाँ रहते हैं?
बाबाः शिवबाप जैसे बाबा ने बोला है तुम बच्चे मेरी याद में जितना रहते हो उतना मैं तुम्हारे साथ हूँ।
जिज्ञासु- प्रवेश करते हैं?
बाबा- प्रवेश नहीं करते। गुल्जार दादी में शिव बाप का प्रवेश तो हो ही नहीं सकता। अगर शिवबाप का प्रवेश गुल्जार दादी में हो जाये फिर तो ये साबित हो जाता है कि बाप सूक्ष्मवतनवासी भी है। सुप्रीम सोल शिव कभी भी सूक्ष्मवतनवासी नहीं होता। उसको सूक्ष्म शरीर ही नहीं है। हाँ, इतना जरूर कहा है तुम बच्चे जितना मुझे याद करते हो मैं तुम्हारे साथ हूँ। तो ब्रह्मा की सोल भी बच्चा है औ वो बच्चा जो सूक्ष्मशरीरधारी है वो गुल्जार दादी में प्रवेश करता है। जब प्रवेश करता है तो बहुत पॉवरफुल याद होती है उनकी। कोई को जब कोई चाहनेवाली चीज़ मिल जाती है तो उसका नशा चढ़ता है या घटता है? चढ़ता है। ब्रह्मा बाबा बचपन से ही गुल्जार दादी को अपने नजदीक खींचना चाहते थे और गुल्जार दादी भाग जाती थी। कभी भी उनके नजदीक नहीं आई। आखरीन जीवन भर की जो कशिश थी वो शरीर छोड़ने के बाद उनकी मुठ्ठी में आ गई और उन्होंने दादी में प्रवेश कर लिया। तो उनका नशा तो दिन दूना, रात चौगुना हो जाता है और बाबा की याद भी आती है अच्छी। तो जो बाबा की याद में वो साथ में है; शिव बाप के साथ है इसलिए उनकी बुद्धि ऐसे काम करती है जैसे कि वो साथ ही साथ है। जैसे कि कवि लोग है सात्विक स्टेज में रह करके जो कवितायें करते हैं वो कवितायें सच्ची साबित हो जाती हैं।
जिज्ञासु- तो अभी शिवबाबा में साकार बाप ... उनका रोल बापदादा के अंदर है?
बाबा- उनका कोई… ?
जिज्ञासु- उनका कोई पार्ट है?
किसीने कहा- रोल।
बाबा- किसका?
जिज्ञासु- शिवबाबा में मतलब शिवबाप और प्रजापिता ब्रह्मा...
बाबा- शिवबाप का रोल है ज्ञान सुनाने का। वो सिर्फ क्लैरिफिकेशन देने का टीचर का रोल है। उस रोल का नाम ही है टीचर, सुप्रीम टीचर। वो जैसा क्लेररिफिकेशन दे सकता है शास्त्रों का, अव्यक्त वाणी का, मुरलियों का ऐसा क्लेरिफिकेशन दुनिया की कोई भी मनुष्य मात्र आत्मा नहीं दे सकती ये उनका रोल है वर्तमान में।
जिज्ञासु- बापदादा के अंदर में हमारा जो अभी बाबा है उनका कोई पार्ट है क्या?
बाबा- बताया तो जो साकार में पार्ट है उसका नाम है, उसका टाईटल है सुप्रीम टीचर। आत्मायें दो है। एक है सुप्रीम सोल जो सुप्रीम टीचर का पार्ट बजाती है और जिस तन के द्वारा पार्ट बजाती है वो तन वही प्रजापिता का है। माना पतित तमोप्रधान और उसमें भी कृष्ण की सोल प्रवेश है।
जिज्ञासु- लेकिन दादी गुल्जार के अंदर जाता है तो...
बाबा- उनकी अभी एक बात पूरी नहीं हुई। आप कुछ और पूछना चाहते हैं जो कि...
जिज्ञासु- ... बाप दादा का जो रोल चल रहा है, बाप में दो बाप हैं।
बाबा- बाप जब कहा जाता है तो बाप कहने मात्र से ही हमारे बुद्धि में कॉन्सेन्ट्रेशन सुप्रीम सोल के लिए बैठना चाहिए। रामवाली आत्मा के तरफ हमारा कॉन्सेन्ट्रेशन नहीं जाना चाहिए। वो हमारा बाप है भल वो साकार शरीर राम के चोले में है लकिन हमारा कॉन्सेन्ट्रेशन सुप्रीम सोल के लिए है। वो बाप है और ब्रह्मा हमारा दादा है।
जिज्ञासु- अभी गुल्जार के अंदर जब जाते है तो बोलते हैं बापदादा दोंनो आ रहे हैं।
बाबा- दोंनो आ रहे हैं ऐसे नहीं बोला किसी अव्यक्त वाणी में। सिर्फ बोला जाता है बापदादा। इसका मतलब ये है कि जितना ही ब्रह्मा की सोल याद करती है सुप्रीम सोल बाप को उतना ही वो सुप्रीम सोल बाप के साथ है। माना दादावाली सोल जो सृष्टि का पहला पत्ता है वो पहला पत्ता् जैसे कि दादा है, बड़ा भाई है। वो दादा है और जिसकी याद में बैठा हुआ है गुल्जार दादी में वो है बाप। इसलिए बापदादा कहा जाता है। जितना मुझे याद करते हो उतना मैं तुम्हारे साथ हूँ। तो जब साथ है तो साथ ही साथ नाम लेना चाहिए ना? तो नाम हुआ बापदादा।

समयः 57.10-58.53जिज्ञासुः बाबा, पहले-पहले झाड़ छोटा था बाद में झाड़ बड़ा हो जाता है। इसका मतलब क्या है?
बाबाः पहले दो पत्ते निकलते हैं, फिर चार पत्ते निकलते हैं। फिर चार से आठ निकलते हैं। फिर मल्टिप्लाई होता रहता है।
जिज्ञासुः इसलिए पहले झाड़ छोटा होता है, इसलिए?
बाबाः कोई भी बीज बोया जाता है तो पहले दो ही पत्ते निकलते हैं कि इकट्ठे निकल आते हैं?
सभी- दो ही।
बाबा- ऐसे ही यहाँ भी नई सृष्टि का बीजारोपण होता है। दो से चार को संदेश मिलता है। चार से आठ को मिलता है। आठ से सोलह को मिलता है। मल्टिप्लिकेशन होता जाता है।

Disc.CD No.540, dated 24.3.08 at Calcutta, Part-1
Extracts-Part-4


Time: 50.58-57.03
Student: Brahma Baba’s soul enters Gulzar Dadi and narrates the [Avyakt] Vani.
Baba: Yes.
Student: But it remains combined with Father Shiv through the mind and intellect.
Baba: It remains in remembrance.
Student: It remains in remembrance.
Baba: Yes.
Student: But where does the Father, the Father Shiv stay [at that time]?
Baba: The Father Shiv…, for example, Baba has said, the more you children remain in My remembrance, I am with you to that extent.Student: Does He enter?
Baba: He does not enter [Gulzar Dadi]. The Father Shiv cannot enter Gulzar Dadi at all. If the Father Shiv enters Gulzar Dadi then it proves that the Father is also a Subtle Region dweller. The Supreme Soul Shiv never becomes a Subtle Region dweller. He does not have a subtle body at all. Yes, He hascertainly this, the more you children remember Me, I am with you to that extent. So, Brahma’s soul is also a child and that child who has a subtle body enters Gulzar Dadi. When he enters her, he remains in a very powerful remembrance. When someone gets something that he likes, does he feel intoxicated about it or does the intoxication decrease? It increases. Brahma Baba wanted to pull Gulzar Dadi towards himself from her very childhood and Gulzar Dadi used to run away. She never came close to him. Ultimately, the attraction that he had for her throughout the life bore fruits after he left his body and he entered Dadi. So, his intoxication increases by leaps and bounds and he also remembers Baba well. So, when he is with Baba in his remembrance, he is with the Father Shiv; this is why his intellect works as if He is with him. For example, the poems that poets write in their pure stage prove to be true.
Student: So, now the corporeal Father in ShivBaba.... does he have a role in BapDada?
Baba: Does he…?
Student: Does he have any part?
Someone said: Role.
Baba: Whose?
Student: In ShivBaba; I mean to say the Father Shiv and Prajapita Brahma....
Baba: The role of the Father Shiv is to narrate knowledge. That is a role of just the teacher, to give clarification. The name of that role itself is, teacher, Supreme Teacher. The clarification of scriptures, Avyakt Vanis, Murlis that He can give, cannot be given by any human soul. This is His role at present.
Student: Does our Baba have any part in BapDada?
Baba: It has been told just now that the name, the title of the corporeal part is Supreme Teacher. Souls are two. One is the Supreme Soul who plays the part of Supreme Teacher and the body through which it plays a part belongs to Prajapita. It means that [the body] is sinful, tamopradhan , moreover the soul of Krishna is in in it.
Student: But when he enters Dadi Gulzar....
Baba: His one topic has not yet completed. Yes, you wanted to ask something else, which… .
Student:... The role of BapDada that is being played; there are two fathers in the ’Bap’.
Baba: When it is said, ‘Bap’, then just by saying the word ‘Bap’ our intellect should concentrate on the Supreme Soul. Our concentration should not be on the soul of Ram. Although he is our Father, although He is in the corporeal body of Ram, our concentration is on the Supreme Soul. He is the Father and Brahma is our Dada.
Student: When he enters Gulzar, it is said that both Bap and Dada are coming.
Baba: It has not been said in any Avyakt Vani that both are coming. It is only said BapDada . It means that Brahma’s soul is with the Supreme Soul Father to the extent it remembers Him. It means that the soul of Dada who is the first leaf of the world; that leaf is like Dada, the elder brother. He is Dada and the one in whose remembrance he is sitting in Gulzar Dadi is Bap. This is why it is said BapDada. I am with you to the extent you remember Me. So, when He is with him, then His name should be taken along with his name, shouldn’t it? So, the name is BapDada.

Time: 57.10-58.53
Student: Baba, first of all, the tree was small; later on the tree grows big. What does it mean?

Baba: Initially, two leaves emerge; then four leaves emerge. Then eight leaves emerge from four leaves. Then they keep multiplying.Student: Is this why initially the tree is small?
Baba: When any seed is sowed, do two leaves emerge initially or do all the leaves emerge simultaneously?
Everyone: Only two.
Baba: Similarly, here the sowing of the seed of the new world takes place. Two [souls] give message to four. Four give message to eight. Eight give message to sixteen. Multiplication keeps taking place.(concluded)

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arjun
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 04 Oct 2011

वार्तालाप-754, कलयमगल नगर, ता. 01.5.09
उद्धरण-भाग-1


समय-11.46-12.50
जिज्ञासु- कोयम्बतूर, तिरुवरवेल्ली के कम्पिल में भट्टी करके गये पर अभी तक आये नहीं संगठन में, तिरुची में भी आके गये और तिरुवारुर, तिरुची 4-5 जगह पर भट्टी करके...

बाबा- वो सब टूटे हुए पड़े हैं?
जिज्ञासु- मद्रास के लिंक में आते ही नहीं हैं...।
बाबा- ये चेन्नई के कुमार हैं इनको कहो कि उधर चक्कर लगाये।
जिज्ञासु- अभी दो संगठन से ज्यादा हुआ अभी तक आये नहीं।
बाबा- जो वंचित हुई आत्मायें पड़ी हैं उनको पहले उठाना चाहिए। नयों-2 को संदेश देने से ज्यादा अच्छा है, जो टूट पड़ी हैं; पहले एडवांस में थी फिर कारणे-अकारणे टूट गई उनको उठाने से ज्यादा फायदा होगा। वो अनुभवी बन गई अब।

समय- 13.00-14.33
जिज्ञासु- बाबा, बाबा ने बोला है कि जो पहले जाते हैं वो पहले सुखधाम में आते हैं...

बाबा- हाँ, जो पहले परमधाम में जाते हैं वो पहले सुखधाम में आते हैं।
जिज्ञासु- प्रजापिता तो बाबा सबसे लास्ट में शरीर छोड़ते है...
बाबा- शरीर छोड़ता लास्ट में है लेकिन तब तक जब तक वो यहाँ शरीर छोड़ता है तब तक 500-700 करोड़ आत्माएँ सब सूक्ष्म वतन में इकठ्ठी होती हैं। परमधाम नहीं जा सकती वापस। इसलिए झाड़ के चित्र में दिखाया ऊपर शंकरजी... आत्माएँ जा रही है, शंकरजी बैठा हुआ है। क्या? आत्माओं को नैनों पर बिठा करके ले जाने वाला प्रैक्टिकल में कोई चाहिए, वो बैठा हुआ है। वो जब तक शरीर नहीं छोड़ेगा तब तक सूक्ष्म वतन में टिकेंगी। फिर जब वो शरीर छोड़ेगा तो सब उड़ेंगे और वो पहले पहुँच जायेगा।
जिज्ञासु- तो बाबा सबसे पहले वो ही आत्मा...
बाबा- वो ही आत्मा। जो पहले पहुँचेंगी वो ही पहले आयेगी।
जिज्ञासु- तो बाबा, फिर उसके साथ लक्ष्मी की आत्मा साथ में आती है या उसके बाद आती है?
बाबा- लक्ष्मी वाली जो आत्मा है वो उसके साथ ही है पहले या बाद में? लक्ष्मी वाली आत्मा के साथ लिये बगैर राम वाली आत्मा जो है वो परमधाम वापस जा सकेगी? नहीं जा सकेगी। ये तो प्रवृत्तिमार्ग है। प्रवृत्ति में जब तक गांठ नहीं बंधेगी, कोई काम सफल होने वाला नहीं है।

समय- 14.34-16.31
जिज्ञासु- बाबा बोलते हैं ना कि सारी दुनिया खत्म हो जायेगी, सिर्फ भारत ही बचेगा। तो बाबा विदेश में फिर आत्माएँ कैसे, क्या उनका भी बर्फ में शरीर ...

बाबा- वो तो डूब जायेंगी सब समुन्दर में।
जिज्ञासु- डूब जायेंगी तो फिर विदेश में मनुष्य आत्माएँ कैसे उत्पन्न होती है? भारत से तो जाती नहीं है।
बाबा- जाती नहीं है?
जिज्ञासु- द्वापर से भारत की ही आत्माएँ वहाँ जाती है?
बाबा- हाँ, ठीक है। भारतवासी ही चारों तरफ दुनिया में फैले हुए है। सारी दुनिया उनके ही बच्चे हैं।
जिज्ञासु- मेरा मतलब है, जो विदेश है...
बाबा- विदेश में चले गए।
जिज्ञासु- हाँ, बाबा वो तो खत्म हो जाता है। अभी सब खत्म हो जायेगा सिर्फ भारत खंड ही बचेगा।
बाबा- हाँ।
जिज्ञासु- तो जब द्वापर में विनाश होता है...
बाबा- आधा विनाश होता है हिन्दुस्तान में। हिन्दुस्तान में आधा विनाश होता है।
जिज्ञासु- तो उसी समय भारत का पार्टिशन होना शुरु हो जाता है?
बाबा- नहीं।
जिज्ञासु- तो फिर विदेश में आत्मायें कैसे उत्पन्न होती हैं?
बाबा- वो धीरे-2 अरब खंड पहले ऊपर आयेगा। एकदम थोड़े ही सब देश ऊपर आ जायेंगे।
जिज्ञासु- फिर बाबा मनुष्यात्माएँ वहाँ पर उत्पन्न कैसे होती हैं?
बाबा- उत्पन्न वहाँ नहीं होती हैं। भारत से ही वहाँ दौड़ करके जाती हैं।
जिज्ञासु- जाने का रास्ता तो रहता नहीं पूरा समुद्र होता है, चारों तरफ से।
बाबा- नहीं-2 पृथ्वी से होते हुए, समुन्दर से होते हुए जाते हैं, नौकाओं से जाते हैं। नौकाएँ थी न पहले?
जिज्ञासु- बाबा, जब द्वापर में आधा विनाश हो जाता है तो अकाले मृत्यु में आत्मा शरीर छोड़ देती है।
बाबा- हाँ, छोड़ेंगी। जो अकाले मौत शरीर छोड़े वो ही तो सब विधर्मी हैं। जो पक्के स्वधर्मी हैं वो कभी अकाले मौत में शरीर नहीं छोड़ते। प्रकृति उनका ऑपोजिशन कर ही नहीं सकती।

Disc.CD No.754, dated 01.05.09
Extracts-Part-1


Time: 11.46-12.50
Student: Students from Coimbatore, Tiruvaravelli have undergone bhatti from Kampil, but they have not come to the sangathan (gathering) so far. Students have gone (for bhatti) from Tiruchi and Tiruvarur; they have gone from 4-5 places for bhatti….

Baba: Have they all broken away ( from knowledge)?
Student: They do not maintain a link with Madras at all…..
Baba: This one is a kumar from Chennai; ask him to visit those places.
Student: More than two sangathans have been organized so far (ever since they underwent bhatti), but they haven’t come yet.
Baba: The deprived souls should be uplifted first. Rather than giving message to the new ones, it is more beneficial if you uplift the souls who have broken away (from knowledge), who were in advance (party) earlier and broke way (from knowledge) due to one reason or the other. They have become experienced now.

Time: 13.00-14.33
Student: Baba, Baba has said that those who go first (to the Supreme Abode) will come to the Abode of Happiness first….

Baba: Yes, those who go to the Supreme Abode first come to the Abode of Happiness first.
Student: Baba, Prajapita leaves his body last of all.
Baba: He leaves the body last, but until he leaves his body here, all the 5-7 billion souls gather in the Subtle Region. They cannot go back to the Supreme Abode. This is why Shankarji has been shown above in the picture of the tree…....souls are departing and Shankarji is sitting. What? There is someone required in practice to take the souls on his eyelids. He is sitting there. Until he leaves his body they will remain in the Subtle Region. Then, when he leaves his body, all of them will fly and he will reach first.
Student: So, Baba, first of all that soul…
Baba: The same soul. The one who will reach first will come down first.
Student: So Baba, does the soul of Lakshmi come with him or after him?
Baba: Is the soul of Lakshmi with him at first or after him? Can the soul of Ram return to the Supreme Abode without taking the soul of Lakshmi with him? He cannot. This is the path of household. Until they tie a knot in the path of household, no task is going to be successful.

Time: 14.34-16.31
Student: Baba says that the entire world will perish; only India will survive, doesn’t He ? So, Baba what about the souls in the foreign countries? Will their bodies also be buried in ice….?

Baba: All of them will submerge in the ocean.
Student: If they submerge, how will human souls emerge there in the foreign countries? They do not go from India.
Baba: Do they not go?
Student: Do the souls of India go there from the Copper Age?
Baba: Yes, it s correct. Only the Indians have spread out all over the world. The entire world is their progeny only.
Student: I mean the foreign countries….
Baba: They went to the foreign countries.
Student: Yes, Baba that perishes. Now everything will perish. Only the Indian landmass will survive.
Baba: Yes.
Student: So, when destruction takes place in the Copper Age…
Baba: Semi-destruction takes place in India. Semi-destruction takes place in India.
Student: So, does the partition of India begin from that time itself?
Baba: No.
Student: So, then how do souls emerge in foreign countries?
Baba: The Arabian landmass will emerge slowly. All the countries will not emerge at once.
Student: Then Baba how do human souls emerge there?
Baba: They do not emerge there. They run from India to those places.
Student: There is no way to go, there is ocean all around.
Baba: No, no. They go by land route, they go by ocean route; they go by boats. There were boats earlier, weren’t there?
Student: Baba, when semi-destruction takes place in the Copper Age, the souls leave their bodies due to untimely death.
Baba: Yes, they will leave their bodies. Those who leave their bodies in an untimely death are all vidharmis . Those who are firm swadharmis will never leave their bodies in an untimely death. Nature cannot oppose them at all.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 05 Oct 2011

वार्तालाप-754, कलयमगल नगर, ता. 01.5.09
उद्धरण-भाग-2


समय- 25.00-27.23
जिज्ञासु- बाबा, बाबा कहते हैं कि इच्छा मत करो, इच्छा मात्रम अविद्या। लेकिन कुछ इच्छायें ऐसी हैं जैसे बच्चों की पढ़ाई की इच्छा है। वो तो बाबा करनी पड़ती है।

बाबा- बच्चों की पढ़ाई? वो तो कह दिया डॉगली पढ़ाई और गॉडली पढ़ाई। तो ईश्वर की जो शिखामणी है, ईश्वर की शिक्षा है उस शिक्षा के बरखिलाफ हम इच्छा क्यों करेंगे?
जिज्ञासु- बाबा, घर वाले चाहते हैं कि बच्चे अच्छे बने।
बाबा- माना दुनिया जो कहेगी सो ही हम करेंगे?
जिज्ञासु- वो बात तो हमें मन से नहीं लेकिन ऊपर से तो माननी पड़ती है।
बाबा- माननी पड़ती है माना हम मजबूर है ना? हम ज्ञानी नहीं है ना? हम ज्ञानी तू आत्मा हैं या भक्त आत्मा हैं? भक्त बन्धन में रहेगा और ज्ञानी? जितना पक्का ज्ञानी होगा उतना किसी के बन्धन में नहीं रह सकता। इसलिए ज्ञानी प्रभुए विशेष प्यारा। भगवान को ज्ञानी ज्यादा प्रिय क्यों हैं? तुम सब सीताएँ हो, भक्तियाँ हो। तो उनमें प्रवेश नहीं करता। सीताओं में भक्तियों में प्रवेश करता है? नहीं करता। किसमें प्रवेश करता है? राम में प्रवेश करता है। राम को भक्ति थोड़े ही कहेंगे। सीता थोड़े ही कहेंगे। इसलिए ज्ञानी ज्यादा प्रिय है। 100% ज्ञानी भी वो ही बनेगा जिसने 100% भक्ति की होगी। भक्ति वो है आदिकाल की, अव्यभिचारी। अभी की नहीं। अभी की भक्ति व्यभिचारी हो गई और आदिकाल की भक्ति अव्यभिचारी भक्ति थी, वो बहुत तीखी भक्ति है।

समय- 27.22-32.54
जिज्ञासु- रघुपति राघव राजा राम, पतित पावन सीता राम, हे राम और राम नाम सत्य है इसका राम कैसा-2 बाबा?

बाबा- एक ही तो राम है। कैसा-2 कहाँ है? राम नाम सत्य है वो कब बोलते हैं? जब मरते हैं तब ही तो बोलते हैं, राम नाम सत्य है। जन्म लेते हैं तो बोलते हैं, राम नाम सत्य है? बोलते हैं? नहीं बोलते हैं। इसका मतलब ये हैं कि अभी जो आत्मायें जन्म ले रही हैं ज्ञान में, बाप का बच्चा बन रही हैं अभी राम की वैल्यू नहीं है। क्या? जब आत्मायें जन्म लेती हैं, ज्ञान में आती हैं, निश्चयबुद्धि बनती हैं, बाप का बच्चा बनती हैं तो उनको राम की उतनी वैल्यू नहीं है। जब अंत समय इस सृष्टि का आयेगा, मरने का टाईम आयेगा सबका, जीते जी मरना देहभान से तब याद आयेगा राम नाम सत्य है। और कोई आत्मा इस सृष्टि पर सत्य नहीं है। एक राम ही सत्य है। बाकी सब धोखे देने वाले होंगे लास्ट टाईम पर और वो राम भी इसलिए सत्य है क्योंकि वो निराकार राम उसमें प्रवेश होता है मुकर्रर रूप से। टेम्पररी रूप में नहीं। मुकर्रर रूप से प्रवेश होता है इसलिए वो सत्य है। नहीं तो ऐसे भी नहीं कि 63 जन्मों में सत्य था।

63 जन्मों में सत्य हो सकता है वो? नहीं। वो भी दूसरों के प्रभाव में आता है, विदेशियों के प्रभाव में नहीं आता क्या? क्या रामवाली आत्मा ने 63 जन्मों में हिंसक युद्ध नहीं किये? हिंसक युद्ध किये ना? तो शिवबाबा की श्रीमत के बरखिलाफ किये या शिवबाबा की श्रीमत के अनुकूल किये? बरखिलाफ किये। महात्मा बुद्ध ने सिखाया, क्या? अहिंसा परमोधर्म। कोई तुम पे हमला करता है तो तुम बदले में उसके ऊपर हमला मत करो, ये महात्मा बुद्ध की थियोरी रही लेकिन राम वाली आत्मा की ये थियोरी नहीं रहती। अगर कोई हमारे ऊपर हमला करता है, हमारे बीवी बाल-बच्चों को नुक्सान पहुँचाता है, कनवर्ट करता है, दुःख देता है, चोरी करता है तो क्या जो सनातन धर्म की पक्की आत्मायें होंगी वो बौद्धियों के तरह हाथ उठाय देगी, अच्छा भैया ले जाओ, पत्नी, बीवी, बाल-बच्चों को ले जाओ तुम? हाथ उठा देंगी? अगर हाथ उठा भी देंगी तो जो बीवी बाल-बच्चे हैं जिनकी आस्था अपने बाप के ऊपर बैठी हुई है उनके दिल को दुःख होगा या सुख होगा? क्या होगा? वो बहुत दुःख हो जायेगा। ये तो पाप बन गया।

भगवान तो शरणागत वत्सल है। शरण में आये हुए को ठुकराता है क्या? भगवान शरण में आये हुए को ठुकराता है? नहीं ठुकराता है। तो यहाँ भी कोई हमला करता है... मान लो हम घर में बैठे हैं और कोई हथियार लेकरके हमला करता है या उठा के ले जाता है किड्नैप करके, तो ले जाने दें? उसकी हिंसा का जो बदला है वो हिंसा से हम निजात नहीं पायेंगे? छोड़ देंगे? क्या करेंगे? ब्रह्मा को फॉलो करना है कि नहीं करना है? अरे, ब्रह्मा को फॉलो करना है कि नहीं करना है कर्मों में? करना है ना? ब्रह्मा बाबा माउंट आबू में, बच्चों की सेफ्टी के लिए रात में बन्दूकधारी रखते थे या नहीं रखते थे? रखते थे कि नहीं रखते थे? अरे? रखते थे। किस लिए रखते थे? बन्दूक की क्या जरूरत? जब अहिंसा पर्मोधर्म है, हिंसा नहीं करनी है तो बन्दूकधारी क्यों रखा? अपनी सुरक्षा पहले करनी है। बौद्धियों के तरह बुद्धू नहीं बनना है। बुद्धू बन गये तो उनकी राजाई ही चली गई। सफाचट्ट हो गई राजाई, भीख माँगने लग पड़े। क्या कर रहे हैं बौद्धी अभी? बौद्धी लोग अपना पेट पूर्ति काहे से करते हैं? भीख माँग के करते हैं। ये अच्छी बात हुई?


Disc.CD No.754, dated 01.05.09
Extracts-Part-2


Time: 25.00-27.23
Student: Baba, Baba says that we should not have any desires. We should not even have the trace of the knowledge of desires (ichcha maatram avidya). But there are some desires like the desire to get our children educated. We have to fulfill that desire.

Baba: Children’s education? About that it has been said that there is a dogly study and a Godly study. So, why will we have any desire against the teachings of God?
Student: Baba, our family members want our children to become good people.
Baba: Does it mean that we will do whatever the world says?
Student: We don’t accept it from our heart, but we have to pretend that we accept it.
Baba: We have to accept it; it means that we are under compulsion, aren’t we? We are not knowledgeable, are we? Are we knowledgeable souls or devotee souls? A devotee will remain under bondage and what about a knowledgeable one ? The more firmly knowledgeable person someone is, the more he will not be able to remain under anyone’s bondage. This is why a knowledgeable person is especially dear to God. Why are knowledgeable ones dearer to God? You all are Sitas, devotees. So, He does not enter them. Does He enter the Sitas and bhaktis? He does not. Whom does He enter? He enters Ram. Ram will not be called Bhakti. He will not be called Sita. This is why the knowledgeable ones are dearer (to God). Only the one, who must have done 100% Bhakti will become 100% knowledgeable. That is the Bhakti of the early period, the unadulterated [Bhakti]. Not (the Bhakti) of the present time. The present day Bhakti has become adulterated and the Bhakti of the early period was unadulterated Bhakti, that is very intense Bhakti.

Time: 27.22-32.54
Student: It is said ‘Raghupati Raghav Raja Ram, Patit Paavan Sita Ram’, ‘He Ram’, ‘Ram naam satya hai’ – Baba, are they different Rams?

Baba: There is only one Ram. There aren’t different ( Rams). When do they say ‘Ram naam satya hai’ (Ram’s name is true)? They say ‘Ram naam satya hai’ only when someone dies. Do they say ‘Ram naam satya hai’ when someone is born? Do they say? They do not say. It means that the souls who are being born in knowledge now, who are becoming the children of the Father do not have value for Ram now. What? When the souls are born, when they enter the path of knowledge, when they develop faith, when they become the Father’s children, they do not have much value for Ram. When the last period of the world comes, when the time for everybody’s death comes, when they die from body consciousness while being alive, then they will remember that the name of Ram is true. No other soul is true in this world. Only one Ram is true. All others will deceive at the last time ,moreover, that Ram is true because that Incorporeal Ram enters him in a permanent way, not in a temporary way . He enters him in a permanent way; this is why he is true. Otherwise, it is not that he was true for 63 births.

Can he be true in the 63 births? No. He comes under the influence of others, too. Does he not come under the influence of the foreigners? Did the soul of Ram not wage violent wars in the 63 births? He waged violent wars, did he not? So, did he wage (those wars) against the Shrimat of ShivBaba or in accordance with the Shrimat of ShivBaba? He waged it against the Shrimat. Mahatma Buddha taught; what? Ahimsa parmodharma (non-violence is the greatest religion). Mahatma Buddha’s theory was that if someone attacks you, do not launch a counter-attack. But the soul of Ram does not follow this theory. If someone attacks us, if someone causes harm to our wife and children, if someone converts them, if someone gives them sorrow, if someone steals, then will the souls which are firm in the Ancient Deity religion raise their arms [in surrender] like the Buddhists [telling them] – OK, brother, take my wife and children. Will they raise their arms ? Even if they raise their arms, will his wife and children, who have faith on their Father, feel sorrowful or happy? What will happen? They will feel very sorrowful. This results in a sin.

God is sharnaagat vatsal. Does He reject anyone who seeks shelter from Him? Does God reject anyone who comes to take God’s shelter? He does not reject. So, even here, if someone attacks.... suppose we are sitting at home and someone attacks us with arms or if someone kidnaps someone, should we let them take him away? Will we not counter that violence with violence? Will we leave? What will we do? Should we follow Brahma or not? Arey, should we follow Brahma in actions or not ? We have to, haven’t we? Did Brahma Baba used to engage gunmen for the safety of children at night at Mount Abu or not? Did he engage or not? Arey? He used to engage. Why did he engage (them)? What is the need for guns? When non-violence is the greatest religion, when we should not indulge in violence, why did he engage gunmen? We should safeguard ourselves first. We should not become fools like the Buddhists. When they became fools, they lost their kingship. The kingship was lost; they started begging. What are the Buddhists doing now? How do the Buddhists fill their stomach? They do so by begging. Is this good?
(to be continued)

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 06 Oct 2011

वार्तालाप-754, कलयमगल नगर, ता. 01.5.09
उद्धरण-भाग-3


समय-34.05-39.05
जिज्ञासु- बाबा, बाबा ने बोला है एक मुरली में कि प्रजापिता से ही लक्ष्मी की आत्मा ज्ञान लेती है।

बाबा- नहीं, गलत बात। प्रजापिता पुरुष है, पुरुष चोला है; है ना? पुरुष चोला जितने भी है वो सब दुर्योधन दुःशासन है या नहीं है? चाहे वो ब्रह्मा हो चाहे वो शंकर हो, पुरुष चोला है ना? पुरुष चोला के मुख से ज्ञान जो निकलेगा उसका वायब्रेशन जो बनेगा वो वायब्रेशन सतयुग की स्थापना करेगा? सतयुग की स्थापना करेगा या क्रांति की स्थापना करेगा? क्रांति होती है। क्या? गूंजी विनाश की वाणी फिर भी कितनी कल्याणी। दुनिया का विनाश हो जायेगा और कल्याण तो हो जायेगा, अकल्याण नहीं होगा लेकिन सतयुग स्थापन नहीं होगा। वो सतयुग कब स्थापन होगा? सतयुग है प्रवृत्तिमार्ग की दुनिया। वो प्रवृत्तिमार्ग की दुनिया अकेले शंकर के द्वारा नहीं हो सकती। (कोई) कहे, ए शंकर के द्वारा? शंकर अकेला कहां रहता है ? शंकर का तो प्रवृत्तिमार्ग का पार्ट है। शंकर जो है वो तो काशी वासी है। काशी नगरी उसे बहुत प्रिय है। तो प्रवृत्ति हुई न? लेकिन काशी नगरी जो है वो रुद्रमाला का मणका है या विजयमाला का मणका है? फिर भी तो रुद्रमाला का मणका है। चोले से तो भाई बहन हुए ना? भाई बहन की कही थोड़े ही प्रवृत्ति बनती है।
जिज्ञासु- बाबा, एक मुरली में ये बोला है कि लक्ष्मी ऐसा ज्ञान देगी प्रजापिता को कि वो सेकेण्ड में नर से नारायण बनेगा।
बाबा- प्रजापिता को?
जिज्ञासु- कि वो सेकेण्ड में नर से नारायण बन जायेगा।
बाबा- हाँ, सेकेण्ड में नर से नारायण बन जायेगा।
जिज्ञासु- प्रजापिता तो खुद ज्ञानी आत्मा है तो लक्ष्मी उसे क्या ज्ञान देगी?
बाबा- लक्ष्मी ज्ञान नहीं देगी। लक्ष्मी जो है वो ज्ञान देती है प्रैक्टिकल धारणा का। एक होता है ज्ञान मुख से सुनाने का, एक होता है ज्ञान दृष्टि से देखने का, एक होता है ज्ञान वायब्रेशन का, एक ज्ञान होता है - जीवन में समाया हुआ है, मुख से बोला नहीं है, प्रैक्टिकल जीवन में ज्ञान समाया हुआ है। तो वो प्रैक्टिकल धारणा रुद्रमाला के मणकों में नहीं है लेकिन विजयमाला के मणकों में वो प्रैक्टिकल धारणा होगी ज्ञान की। उसके बगैर निस्तार नहीं है। इसलिए माता गुरु चाहिए। पत्नी को माता भी कहते हैं।
जिज्ञासु- तो बाबा, रुद्रमाला से भी अच्छा विजयमाला है ना? पवित्र भी रहती है और
बाबा- ठीक है पवित्र भी रहती है, सन्यासी भी पवित्र रहते हैं लेकिन जो राजयोग का लक्ष्य है वो लक्ष्मी प्राप्त करती है या नारायण प्राप्त करता है? (किसी ने कहा - नारायण) राजयोग का लक्ष्य क्या है? (किसी ने कहा - नर से नारायण) क्यों नारी से लक्ष्मी बनना नहीं है? राजयोग का लक्ष्य है स्वतंत्र बनना, किसी के आधीन नहीं बनना। जो अधिकारी होते हैं वो कभी किसी के आधीन नहीं होते और भगवान हमको स्वाधीन बनाने आया हुआ है और लक्ष्मी? सदैव स्वाधीन होगी या पराधीन भी होगी? राजा के नीचे तो रहना पड़ेगा? इसलिए बाप के बच्चे रुद्रमाला के मणके हैं, शिवबाप के बच्चे। विजयमाला के मणके बाप के डायरेक्ट बच्चे नहीं है। वो बच्चे तब बनते हैं जब रुद्रमाला के 100% सहयोगी बन जाये। जैसे शादी हो जाती है तो शादी होने के बाद जो कन्या है, दूसरे कुल की है तो भी जब शादी हो गई तो उसका कुल बदल गया। ऐसे वो सूर्यवंशी बन जाते हैं सूर्य के बच्चे। तो आप आधीन बनना पसंद करते हैं।

समय-53.00-01.00.07
जिज्ञासु- बाबा, इनका प्रश्न है कि महाभारत में विदुर जो है वो कभी भी लॉ बनाके रखता था। तो इनका इसमें कैसा पार्ट है?

बाबा- विद माने होता है जानना। विद से बनता है विद्वान, वो है उसका नाम विदुर। होशियार था या बुद्धू था? उसके जीवन से क्या साबित होता है? होशियार था या बुद्धू था? अरे, जितने भी पात्रधारी हैं उनके बीच में होशियार था या बुद्धू था? होशियार था। इतनी होशियारी थी कि उसकी कोई गलती नहीं पकड़ सकता। कोई गलती उसने की ही नहीं, था महामंत्री। किसका? कौरवों का जो हेड था धृतराष्ट्र उसका महामंत्री है। महामंत्री होते हुए भी उस महामंत्री पद का त्याग कर दिया जब देखा कि मेरी पकड़ से ये पाप की दुनिया परे है। तो अच्छा काम किया या बुरा काम किया? और भीष्म पितामह पकड़े बैठे रहे। तो भीष्म पितामह से गलती हुई, द्रोणाचार्य से गलती हुई या विदुर से गलती हुई? उन लोगों से गलती हो गई।

विद्वान तो उसीको कहा जाता है, जानकार; विद माना जानना, जांता पार्टी। जानकार उसे ही कहा जायेगा, ज्ञानी उसे ही कहा जायेगा, जैसा समय हो वैसे समय के अनुसार ऐसा कार्य करे जिससे आत्मा का कल्याण हो, अकल्याण न हो। विदुर जो है कौरवों का भी महामंत्री रहा, फिर महाभारत पूरा हो गया। पांडवों ने किसी दूसरे को महामंत्री बनाया होगा या विदुर को ही महामंत्री बनाया होगा? किसको बनाया होगा? विदुर को ही महामंत्री बनाया गया। तो ऐसी आत्मा यहाँ ब्राह्मणों की दुनिया में भी कोई होनी चाहिए ना? महान ते महान मंत्रणा देने वाले को महामंत्री कहा जाता है, अच्छे से अच्छी मंत्रणा, सलाह। तो जो अच्छे से अच्छी मंत्रणा देने वाला है, अच्छे से अच्छी सलाह देने वाला है... कोई पात्रधारी होना चाहिए और वो पात्रधारी सतयुग में ही नहीं ये श्रेष्ठ दुनिया में ही नहीं, जब द्वापरयुगी दुनिया होगी शुरु, वहाँ भी जो बड़े-2 सम्राट होंगे उन सम्राटों के काल में भी वो महामंत्री रहा होगा। कोई प्रसिद्धि है ऐसी?

जिज्ञासु- बाबा, अभी आपने बताया कि जानता पार्टी तो सब जानते हैं।
बाबा- सब नहीं जानते।
जिज्ञासु- कुछ तो जानते हैं।
बाबा- जानता पार्टी माना उसको ज्ञान है, कहाँ खराब हो रहा है, कहाँ अच्छा हो रहा है।
जिज्ञासु- बाबा, अभी जो इलेक्शन हो रहा है ना उसमें जनता पार्टी गवर्मेंट आयेगा क्या? गवर्मेंट वो फॉर्म करेगा क्या?
बाबा- 76 में, 76 में जानता पार्टी ऊपर आई या नहीं आई? आई लेकिन जो ज्ञान के अनुसार कार्य है सो नहीं किया। जो बाबा बताते हैं, चारों तरफ घेराव डालो। वो घेराव उन्होंने सारा दिल्ली में डाल दिया। चारों ओर घेराव नहीं डाला। तो दिल्ली की सातों-आठों सीटे तो जीत ली, बाकी जगह डब्बा गोल हो गया। तो जनता पार्टी सफल नहीं हुई। है तो ज्ञानी लेकिन ज्ञान का उपयोग भी तो पूरा करना चाहिए ना? पूरा उपयोग नहीं कर पाते। जब पूरा उपयोग करेंगे तो जीत हो जायेगी। उनका जीवन जो है, ज्ञानियों का जीवन जो है कैसा जीवन है? निशानी दिखाई गई है, क्या निशानी दिखाई गई है? अरे, जांता पार्टी की क्या निशानी दिखाई गई है? कमल का फूल। माना ज्ञानियों का जो जीवन है वो कमल फूल के समान जीवन है, कीचड़ की दुनिया में रहते हैं।

76 से जो भी एडवांस पार्टी निकली उसमें जो भी बन्दे निकले वो घर गृहस्थ के कीचड़ में रहने वाले निकले या आश्रम के पवित्र वातावरण में रहने वाले हैं? घर गृहस्थ के कीचड़ में रहने वाले हैं। फिर भी वहाँ रहते हुए भी बुद्धि से मनन चिंतन मंथन ज्ञान का करने वाले हैं। कमल फूल समान उनका जीवन तो है... कमल में भी कोई श्वेत कमल होता है, कोई रक्त कमल होता है, कोई पीत कमल होता है। कमल एक प्रकार का होता है? भांति-2 के कमल होते हैं। तो यहाँ वैराईटी है। वो जनता पार्टी में भी एक ऐसा था जो भ्रष्टाचार नहीं करता था । बाकी सारे ही पकड़ लिए गए भ्रष्टाचार में। जनता पार्टी का शासन चला कि नहीं चला? चला ना? सारे ही मंत्रियों ने भ्रष्टाचार किया। वो एक कौन था जो भ्रष्टाचार में नहीं पकड़ा गया? (जिज्ञासु ने कुछ कहा) नहीं। अटल बिहारी वाजपाई।


Disc.CD No.754, dated 01.05.09
Extracts-Part-3


Time: 34.05-39.05
Student: Baba, Baba has said in a Murli that the soul of Lakshmi takes knowledge from Prajapita .

Baba: No, this is wrong. Prajapita is a male, he has a male body; he has, hasn’t he? Are all males Duryodhan, Dusshasan or not? Whether it is Brahma whether it is Shankar, they have a male body, haven’t they? The knowledge that will come out through the mouth of a male body, the vibration that will be created through it, will that vibration establish the Golden Age? Will it establish the Golden Age or will it bring revolution? Revolution takes place. What? Goonji vinash ki Vani phir bhi kitni kalyani ; the destruction of the world will take place and benefit will certainly be brought about, there will be no harm but the Golden Age will not be established. When will that Golden Age be established? The Golden Age is the world of the household path (pravritti marg). That world of the household path cannot be created through Shankar alone. Someone may say, Hey! [Why not] through Shankar? Shankar is not single; Shankar’s part is that of the pravritti marg. Shankar is the resident of Kashi. Kashi nagari is very dear to him. So, they make a couple (household), don’t they? But is Kashi nagari the bead of the Rudramala (the rosary of Rudra) or is she a bead of the Vijaymala (the rosary of victory)? Even so, she is a bead of the Rudramala. They are brother and sister with respect to their body, aren’t they? A brother and a sister never form a couple.
Student: Baba, it has been said in a Murli that Lakshmi will give such knowledge to Prajapita that he will transform from a man to Narayan in a second.
Baba: To Prajapita?
Student: That he will transform from a man to Narayan in a second.
Baba: Yes, he will transform from a man to Narayan in a second.
Student: Prajapita is himself a knowledgeable soul. So, how can Lakshmi give him knowledge?
Baba: Lakshmi will not give him knowledge. Lakshmi gives him the knowledge of putting the knowledge into practice (dharnaa). One kind of knowledge is to narrate [knowledge] through the mouth; one kind of knowledge is by seeing through the eyes , one is knowledge through vibrations and one kind of knowledge is such knowledge that it is immersed in life, it is not spoken through the mouth, it is immersed in the practical life. So, that practical dharnaa is not in the beads of the Rudramala, but the beads of the Vijaymala will have that practical dharnaa of knowledge. The task cannot be accomplished without it. This is why the mother guru is required. The wife is also called a mother.
Student: So Baba, Vijaymala is better than Rudramala, isn’t it? They remain pure and…
Baba: Alright, they remain pure; sanyasis also remain pure, but does Lakshmi achieve the aim of Rajyog or does Narayan achieve the aim? (Someone said : Narayan) What is the aim of Rajyog? (Someone said : transformation from a man to Narayan) Why? Isn’t it to transform from a woman to Lakshmi? The aim of Rajyog is to become independent; not to remain under anyone’s control. Those who are controllers never remain under anyone’s control. And God has come to make us independent. And what about Lakshmi? Will she always be independent or will she also be dependent? Will she not have to be under the [control of] the king? This is why, the Father’s children are the beads of the Rudramala; the children of the Father Shiv. The beads of the Vijaymala are not the direct children of the Father. They become children (of the Father) when they become 100% helpful to the Rudramala. For example, when marriage takes place, after marriage, although the virgin (i.e. bride) belongs to another clan, when the marriage has been solemnized, her clan changes. Similarly, they (i.e. the beads of Vijaymala) become Suryavanshis (those who belong to the Sun dynasty), the children of the Sun. So, you like to become subordinate.

Time: 53.00-01.00.07
Student: Baba, he wants to ask that in Mahabharata Vidur used to always maintain law . So, what kind of part does he have?

Baba: Vid means to know. [the word] vidwan comes from [the word] vid; his name is Vidur. Was he intelligent or a fool? What does his life prove? Was he intelligent or a fool? Arey, among all the actors, was he an intelligent one or a fool? He was intelligent. He was so intelligent that nobody could catch his mistakes. He never committed any mistake. He was the Prime Minister (Mahamantri). Whose? He was the Prime Minister of the head of the Kauravas, i.e. Dhritarashtra. Despite being a Prime Minister, he gave up the post of a Prime Minister when he observed that this sinful world is beyond his grip. So, did he perform a good task or a bad task? And Bhishma Pitamah continued to hold on to it. So, did Bhishma Pitamah commit a mistake, did Dronacharya commit a mistake or did Vidur commit a mistake? Those people (i.e. Bhishma and Dronacharya) committed a mistake.

Only he is called a Vidwan, a knowledgeable one who... Vid means to know (jaan.na); Janta Party (the party which knows). The one who acts in such a way, according to the time, that the benefit is brought about to the soul and that it does not bring harm to the soul wil be called a knowledgeable person. Vidur was the Prime Minister of Kauravas; then, the Mahabharata was over. Will the Pandavas have appointed anyone else as their Prime Minister or will they have made Vidur their Prime Minister? Whom will they have appointed [as Prime minister]? Vidur was made their Prime Minister. So, there should be such a soul in the world of Brahmins also, shouldn’t there? The one who gives the greatest advice (mantrana) is called the Prime Minister (Mahamantri); the best advice, opinion. So, the one who gives the best advice, the best opinion… there should be some actor [like this] and it is not that that actor exists only in the Golden Age, in the righteous world, but when the Copper Age world will begin , the great emperors that will exist there, he will have been a Prime minister in the age of those great emperors too. Is there anyone with such fame?

Student: Baba, now you said that Janta Party knows everything.
Baba: They do not know everything.
Student: They know something.
Baba: Janta Party means it has the knowledge that where something wrong is going on and where something good is going on.
Student: Baba, will Janta Party be [elected] as the government in the election that is taking place now? Will it form the government?
Baba: Did Janta Party emerge in (19)76 or not? It did, but it did not perform the task that should have been performed as per knowledge. [The task that] Baba says, surround from all directions. They surrounded Delhi, they did not surround it from all the directions. So, they did win all the seven-eight seats in Delhi, but lost the seats in other places. So, the Janta Party did not succeed (completely). They are indeed knowledgeable, but they should make complete use of the knowledge, shouldn’t they? They are unable to use it completely. When they use it completely, they will win. Their life, the life of a knowledgeable person, what kind of a life is it? A symbol has been shown; what symbol has been shown? Arey, what is the symbol of Janta Party? The Lotus flower. It means that the life of the knowledgeable ones is like the lotus flower. They live in a world of sludge.

Did all those who emerged in the Advance Party in 1976 live in the sludge of household or in the pure atmosphere of an ashram? They live in the muck of household. Yet, despite living there, they think and churn about knowledge through their intellect. Their life is indeed like a lotus flower.... Even among lotuses some lotuses are white, some are red, some are yellow. Are lotus flowers of one kind? There are a variety of lotus flowers. So, there is a variety here. In that Janta Party also there was one person who was not involved in corruption. All others were caught for their involvement in corruption. Was there the rule of Janta Party or not? There was, wasn’t it? All the ministers were involved in corruption. Who was the one not caught in corruption? (Student said something). No. Atal Behari Vajpayee
....(to be continued)

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 08 Oct 2011

वार्तालाप-754, कलयमगल नगर, ता. 01.5.09
उद्धरण-भाग-4


समय-01.07.12-01.13.39
जिज्ञासु- बाबा, सतयुग में तो ऐसे अनुभव नहीं होगा कौन दास-दासी है, कौन राजा है, कौन प्रजा है। बुद्धि तो होती नहीं है।

बाबा- उसकी बात छोड़ दो। यहाँ के जो सनातन धर्म के प्रायः लोप परिवार हैं, 60-70 लोग एक ही परिवार में रहते हैं, एक चूल्हे पर खाना बनता है, एक घर का मुखिया होता है उस मुखिया की बात सब मानते हैं। एक भी ऐसा परिवार में बन्दा नहीं जो मुखिया की बात न मानता हो। उस मुखिया के 8-10 बच्चे हैं, 8-10 बच्चियाँ हैं, बहुएँ हैं। उन बच्चों में जो सबसे छोटा बच्चा होगा वो बड़े भाई की बात मानेगा या इंकार करेगा? प्यार से मानेगा या जोर जबरदस्ती मानेगा? (सभी- प्यार से मानेगा) प्यार से मानेगा।

तो ये संस्कार कहाँ से आये? पूर्व जन्म से ही वो संस्कार नूँधे हुए हैं उसके और वो ऐसे ही नूँधे हुए हैं जैसे पुरुषोत्तम संगमयुग में एडवांस पार्टी जब शुरु होती है तो चार मुख्य धर्मों के चार बीज ब्रह्मा के मुखवंशावली बनते हैं, इस्लामी, बौद्धी, क्रिश्च्यन्स और राम वाली आत्मा। चार बीज, चार धर्मों के बीज है। कोई बड़ा है, कोई छोटा है, भाई तो है? जो दुनिया में कहावत है, हिन्दु, मुस्लिम, सिक्ख, ईसाई सब आपस में भाई-2 तो कभी तो भाई-2 बने होंगे ना? वो ही भाई जो 76 में आपस में मिल करके भ्रातृत्व भाव में रहते थे, सतोप्रधानता की स्टेज में शूटिंग करने के कारण वो ही भाई बादमें जो तीन धर्मों के तीन विदेशी है, बीजरूप आत्मायें उनमे से वो विरोधी बन जाते हैं। आदि से ही विरोधी बनी और अब तक भी विरोधी बनी हुई है, ‘सदगुरु निन्दक ठौर न पावे’ की शूटिंग कर रही है। आदि में सहयोगी थी, तो जो आदि में सो अंत में होगा या नहीं होगा? नहीं होगा? होगा। वो अंत में ऐसे सहयोगी बनेंगे, इतने गहरे सहयोगी बनेंगे, एक बाप का बच्चा बन करके दिखायेंगे कि उनके अंत मते सो गते के संस्कार पक्के हो जायेंगे। तो क्या जो नई दुनिया में उनको जन्म मिलेगा... जन्म लेंगे कि नहीं लेंगे? नई दुनिया में जायेंगे तो चारों को एक जैसा पद मिलेगा? नहीं मिलेगा।

राम वाली आत्मा की यादगार है कि राजगद्दी जमी हुई है। राजगद्दी का चित्र देखा है? राम का चित्र नहीं देखा? राम वाली आत्मा राजगद्दी पे बैठी हुई है, लक्ष्मण वाली आत्मा चवर डुला रही है, भरत वाली आत्मा छत्र लिए खड़ी है, शत्रुघ्न वाली आत्मा पाँव धो रही है। ये दास-दासी का कर्म क्यों दिखाया गया? उन्हें दुःख हो रहा है? ये काम करते-2 उन्हें दुःख हो रहा है क्या? नहीं हो रहा है। तो ये संस्कार कहाँ से आये? ये खुशी-2 अपना काम कर रहे हैं या दुःखी हो करके काम कर रहे हैं? खुशी-2 दासत्व भाव उन्होने स्वीकार किया हुआ है या कठिनाई हो रही है? खुशी-2 करते हैं। ऐसे ही सतयुग में भी जो भी दास-दासी कर्म करने वाले होंगे उनके संस्कार यहाँ पड़ रहे हैं। आखरीन जिनके खराब संस्कार है और दास-दासी पने की शूटिंग कर रहे हैं वो भी सुधरने हैं या नहीं सुधरने हैं? सुधरेंगे ना? जब सुधर जावेंगे तो वो ही दास-दासी जो है वो राजधानी में पहुँच जायेंगे। जो राजधानी हमारी स्थापन होने वाली है। ऊँच पद पायेंगे या नीच पद पायेंगे? कैसा पद पायेंगे? नीच पद पायेंगे। लेकिन उस पद में भी उनको दुःख नहीं होगा, वो बड़े खुशी होंगे, प्रसन्न रहेंगे। वो ही अंत मते सो गते के संस्कार सतयुग में चलते रहेंगे। तो वहाँ ऊँच नीच का सवाल नहीं होता है। आज के परिवारों में भी देखा जाता है, जो छोटा भाई होता है वो बड़े भाई की बातों को मानता है, उसकी सेवा करता है, पाँव दबाता है, दास-दासी कर्म करता है सारा। लेकिन बड़े भाईयों को छोटे भाई के प्रति प्यार होता है या नहीं होता है?

जिज्ञासु- लेकिन गिने चुने दो-चार लोग है ना ऐसे?
बाबा- आदि सनातन देवी देवता धर्म प्रायः लोप है माना गिने चुने ही होंगे ना? सारे दुनिया में जो राज्य चल रहे हैं, राजा बन करके बैठे हुए हैं वो अपनी प्रजा को अपना भाई समझते हैं? अपना घर वाला समझते हैं क्या? फैमली का सदस्य समझते हैं? नहीं। वो तो खून चूस रहे हैं उनका।

Disc.CD No.754, dated 01.05.09
Extracts-Part-4


Time: 01.07.12 – 01.13.39
Student: Baba, there will be no feeling of being a servant or maid, king or subjects in the Golden Age. They don’t have intelligence.

Baba: Leave that topic aside. Here, the families of Sanatan Dharma which have almost disappeared; 60-70 people live in the same family, food is cooked in the same kitchen, there is one head of the family and everyone obeys that head. There will not be even one person in the family who does not obey the head. That head has 8-10 sons, 8-10 daughters, daughters-in-law. Among those children will the youngest one obey the elder brother or not? Will he obey it lovingly or will he obey on being forced? (Everyone said – He will obey it lovingly) He will obey it lovingly.

So, from where did these sanskars emerge? Those sanskars are recorded from the previous births itself and its recording takes place just like when the Advance Party begins in the Purushottam Sangamyug, four seeds of the four main religions become the mouth born progeny of Brahma, [the seed souls] of Islam religion, Buddhism, Christianity and the soul of Ram. The four seeds are the seeds of the four religions. Someone is older, Someone is younger , but they are brothers, aren’t they? The saying that there is in the world, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians all are brothers among themselves; so, they must have become brothers at some point of time, mustn’t they? The same brothers who used to live together like brothers in 1976 due to doing the shooting in the stage of satopradhanta (stage of goodness and purity); the same brothers later, among them the three seed form souls, the three foreigners of the three religions become opponents. They became opponents from the beginning and are opponents even until now; they are performing the shooting of ‘sadguru nindak thaur na paavey’ (the one who defames the Sadguru does not get any shelter). They were helpful in the beginning; so will whatever happened in the beginning happen in the end or not? Will it not happen [like that]? It will. They will become such helpers in the end, they will become so deeply helpful, they will prove to be the children of the one Father that their sanskars of ‘ant mate so gate’ (as the thoughts in the end so shall be the fate) will become strong. So, when they will be born in the new world.....will they be born or not? When they go to the new world, will all four of them get equal post? They will not.

There is a memorial of the soul of Ram; the king’s throne has been set; have you seen the picture of the king’s throne? Have you not seen the picture of Ram? The soul of Ram is sitting on the throne. The soul of Lakshman is holding the fan (chavar); the soul of Bharat is standing with an umbrella. The soul of Shatrughna is washing his (Ram’s) feet. Why have these actions of servants been shown? Are they feeling sorrowful? Are they feeling sorrowful while performing these tasks? They aren’t. So, from where did they get these sanskars? Are they doing their jobs happily or sadly? Have they accepted the job of servants happily or do they feel any difficulty? They do it happily. Similarly, the sanskars of the people who will perform the duties of maids and servants are being recorded here. Ultimately, will the ones with bad sanskars and the ones who are performing the shooting of maids and servants reform or not? They will reform, will they not? When they reform, the same servants and maids will reach the capital, our capital which is going to be established. Will they achieve a high post or a low post? What kind of a post will they achieve? They will achieve a low post. But even with that post they will not feel sorrowful; they will be very joyful, very happy. The same sanskars of ‘ant mate so gate’ will continue in the Golden Age. So, the question of high and low does not arise there. It is seen even in today’s families too that the younger brother obeys the directions of the elder brother, he serves him, presses his legs, performs all the duties of servants and maids. But do the elder brothers have love for the younger brother or not?

Student: But such people are handful, aren’t they?
Baba: The Ancient deity religion has almost disappeared; it means that there will be very few [like that], will there not? Do those who are ruling the entire world, those who are sitting as kings consider their subjects as their brothers? Do they consider them to be members of their family? Do they consider them to be members of their family? No. In fact they are sucking their blood...(concluded)

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 10 Oct 2011

Disc.CD No.848, Dental College
Extracts-Part-1


Time: 00.07-09.08
Student: Baba, how should we remember the cycle?

Baba: First remember from the point of view of the basic (knowledge), then the question of ‘how’ will end at a basic level. How did you remember the cycle in the basic (knowledge)? Do you remember that? Have you not been to a Brahmakumari ashram? Have you been there? So, you must be aware of it in basic (knowledge)! (Someone said :they say remember the Golden Age, the Siver Age….) Yes, the Golden Age, the Silver Age, the Copper Age, the Iron Age, the Confluence Age. The Golden Age, the Silver Age, the Copper Age, the Iron Age, the Confluence Age. So, it is a complete cycle , isn’t it? So, that was from the point of view of basic (knowledge). Now? Now in advance (knowledge). The basic knowledge is less. It is limited. And in higher classes knowledge goes into expanse. So, similar is the advance knowledge; go on reading Baba’s Murli here and go on thinking and churning the cycle. It will go on expanding. It has been said for that, “You children should wake up at Amrit Vela and think and churn on these four pictures. Newer points will keep emerging in the intellect. Keep writing to the Head Office about whatever new points emerge in your intellect.

Baba explains about the aerial (extensive) way of service. Well, whether someone does or does not do, [it is upto them]. For example, when scriptures emerged in the path of devotion, what emerged first of all? Paintings appeared on the caves of Ajanta-Ellora. Numerous pictures appeared. Initially scriptures were not made. What were made initially? Pictures were made. Even among those pictures, initially some main pictures must have been made. It happened just like now in the shooting period, Baba had four main pictures prepared through visions; later on numerous pictures were prepared on the directions of Maya. Similarly, in the path of devotion, numerous pictures were made in the caves of Ajanta, Ellora, Elephanta and Kanheri. Scriptures were prepared based on those pictures. Which scriptures were prepared first? Vedvani emerged. Based on the Vedas… it is said that Vedas emerged from the mouth of Brahma. Well, there was no machine in the mouth of Brahma that Vedas would be printed in it and emerge from it. No. In fact, it was the Supreme Soul Shiv who entered and spoke through the mouth of Brahma . That was about the Confluence Age. That was the true Vedvani. ShivBaba does not enter from the Copper Age. Yes, whatever thinking and churning the human gurus did was named scriptures. Vedas emerged as the first scriptures. Then Aranyaks [emerged] from those Vedas and when Aranyakas were clarified, they brought forth the Brahmanas. Clarification of Brahmanas led to the formation of Upanishads. Clarification of Upanishads led to the emergence of Puranas. In this manner scriptures went on expanding. One thing emerged out of another. Similarly, knowledge keeps expanding here.

Stories and pictures of numerous deities are available in the scriptures. Their biographies are available. Those memorials of the path of worship represent which time? The cycle that every Brahmin soul has rotated here in the Confluence Age, they rotated that cycle of 84 [births] on the basis of individual memory. The soul of Ram wrote the Ramayana. The soul of Krishna wrote the Soorsagar and the Bhagwat. So, similarly, all those who were the writers of scriptures, they wrote their very memorial of the Confluence Age in their scriptures. Certainly, they have rotated (churned) the cycle of their 84 births in the intellect in the Confluence Age; so, we can expand this cycle in our soul too. There is a world in our star like soul for which Baba says, there is a world in every star. Today, the scientists believe that there is a world in every star in the sky above. But they are non-living stars, indeed. There is no world in them. It is us, star like souls who create our creation and world for many births through thinking and churning, through serving many souls. The more we go on serving souls, those souls will become the subjects (raiyyat) of our kingdom. So, this is a cycle, whose memorial [a discus] has been shown [in the hands of] Vishnu and Krishna. Certainly, they will have rotated this cycle of world, the cycle of 84 births in their intellect more than anyone else. So, the one who takes the initiative is called the number one Arjun. This is why Vishnu or Krishna alone has been depicted with that discus. It is certainly a memorial of all the Brahmins.


Time: 09.09- 13.53
Student: Baba, how is there praan in a soul?

Baba: When someone is dead, call it praan or call it breath, is it present?
Student: No. After leaving the body? After the soul leaves the body?
Baba: Yes, then what?
Student: Then how does praan go out?
Baba: They become a point. They assume a subtle body. The subtle body which keeps roaming everywhere in the world in dreams becomes free from the bondage of the physical body. It becomes more powerful. It becomes dynamic. The bondage of the five elements of the physical body does not allow the soul to become more dynamic. Yes, if someone is a fast effortmaker (purusharthi), despite being in the bondage of the body made up of five elements, the soul should be able to come out of the body or enter the body whenever they wish by gaining victory over the five elements of the nature. It can be possible. But this is about the fast purusharthi . It does not apply to everyone.
Student: What will that number be?
Baba: Four fifty thousand? They should create the new world through their own body by controlling their body till the end. They should give birth to the children of the new world. (Student: Baba sages and saints also leave their body like this) So? They leave (their bodies); what happens after that? Do they establish the new world? (Student: It is said that the sages and saints leave their bodies for two to three days; then the soul enters) In the soul? (Student: It enters the body once again...) So, is heaven created? (Student: No, can anyone do like this?) So, what is the benefit from it? You keep on taking new birth, don’t you? Just as you keep taking birth, they too keep taking birth. Your bones are also mixed in soil and their bones are also mixed in the soil. Neither our bones nor the bones of sages and saints remain pure. And we should make our stage so pure that we should be able to create a new creation. It does not happen like that.

They have just cooked up things that when the Kundalini power is awakened the body becomes golden (kanchankaya). Have you seen any such human being? Imaginary things were written in the scriptures. They will say , “go to the Himalayas and see. There are numerous sages in the jungles of Himalayas who have awakened their kundalini power. They are doing tapasya for thousands of years.” Well, who will go and see? Tell them , OK, come and show us. Then they will run here and there. (Someone said:Baba, these Buddhists ....it is said about them that when they leave their bodies, they foresee that they will be born through a particular body. Then they start accepting that person as a guru Baba. So, is it possible?) They say so. Has anyone seen in practical? There is a vast difference between saying and doing in practical ...(to be continued)

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 12 Oct 2011

Disc.CD No.848, Dental College
Extracts-Part-2


Time: 14.04 – 19.55
Student: Baba, in the picture of the Trimurti which is of the size 30×40 inches, destruction of the tamopradhan (dominated by darkness and ignorance) demoniac world is shown where Shankar is sitting. So, a mother is shown among the white dressed rulers who are sitting, a tricolor flag is shown in her hand. And in the same Trimurti (picture) which is of the size 30×40 inches, it is shown that the rulers who are sitting, a fire is blazing on their seat.

Baba: Which pictures are you wandering in? Sometimes in the picture of the Kalpa tree, sometimes in the picture of the Trimurti, sometimes in the picture of the Ladder.
Student: Baba in the Trimurti picture of 30 by 40 inches, destruction of the degraded demoniac world is shown towards the place where Shankar is sitting. So, among the white- dressed rulers who are sitting, there is a mother , a tricolor flag is shown in her hands…..and in the same Trimurti (picture) of 30 by 40 inches, it is also shown that fire is blazing in the seat of the rulers who are seated. They are hiding in the big buildings and mansions. What does it mean Baba?
Baba: It means they think that it is a flag made up of cloth. The cloth flag for which they think like this does not conquer the world in reality. That cloth flag can indeed catch fire. Along with the cloth flag, the high-rise government buildings on which the cloth flags are hoisted will start burning. All the white dressed Congressmen sitting in those buildings will perish.

What is the truth? The cloth flag is not true. Cloth means body. There are three cloth like bodies which conquer the world and show. The cloth flag cannot conquer the world and show. Nor has it ever conquered and shown. They simply keep singing in the path of devotion like that. Here, in the path of knowledge you should not sing songs; you have to become constant in its meaning and set an example. This is why it was said: this Trimurti badge should always be in the pocket. Whoever comes, explain to them: this is our flag of three living cloths, Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. These three souls, these three cloth like bodies are still alive in this world, they are not dead, and they will gain victory over the world and show, [they are the ones] in whose memorial this song of flag-hoisting is sung in the path of devotion. It is a memorial of which time? It is a memorial of the Confluence Age.

So, explain this. Those cloth flags and the palaces where those flags are hoisted will burn. The gathering in the form of buildings of Brahmins which are getting ready... The rosary of 108 which is prepared contains 8, 9 groups which represent the righteous souls selected from all the religions; they are the fort like gatherings. ShivBaba ties them in the thread of knowledge and love to hoist the flag of Trimurti. Who will rule over the gathering of those seed-form souls of all the religions? Those three murtis will rule. These three murtis perform the task of establishment and destruction on the directions of Shiv and all the three are present in this world now. They have to be recognized. The mother is asking as to where are they present. Those who have obtained the advance knowledge, those who are studying advance knowledge should be given at least this much knowledge on badge that they can understand the three murtis in a living form, who those three murtis in this world are. If they haven’t understood [that], it means that they have not been given the introduction of Trimurti Shiv. And if they haven’t recognized the Trimurti Father Shiv Himself, who creates the three murtis, then did they become the Father’s child? They did not become the Father’s child at all.


Time: 19.57-20.39
Student: Baba, why is there this difference in the same place?...they show a difference in the two pictures, don’t they ?

Baba: Which two pictures?
Student: In the picture of Trimurti, within a sphere they show this difference.
Baba: What difference do they show?
Student: On the one side they show that it is burning and on the other side people are shown to be sitting.
Baba: Yes, yes. Living personalities will be seated. And the non-living personalities, the non-living clothes and the physical buildings will burn.

Time: 40.44-37.14
Student: Baba it was said: you children now know that the incorporeal Baba has changed His form and come. He has come in corporeal form. Until the Father comes in a subtle form (aakaar) from an incorporeal form, how can He teach rajyog?

Baba: Does the Father ever come in a subtle form? From where did you note it down? The subtle bodied souls are subtle. ShivBaba does not come in subtle bodied beings. Nor does He come in the Subtle Region. He does not acquire a subtle body at all. The souls which create suble thoughts will acquire a subtle body. Is ShivBaba asochta (the one who does not think) or does He create thoughts? (Everyone said: He is asochta.) He is asochta; always asochta. How will he create thoughts? And when He won’t create thoughts at all, then how will He have a subtle body? Neither does He have a subtle body nor does He enter a subtle body. Those so-called people who belong to the path of devotion, in the basic word of Brahmins think that Brahma Baba assumes a subtle body and ShivBaba enters in that subtle bodied being in the Subtle Region and both the souls enter in Gulzar Dadi. But it is not so.
Student: There is something more written here. It is a Vani dated (19)71. It is possible they must have cut some part of it. If He does not come in the subtle form, how will He teach rajyog?
Baba: Yes. When He does not come in corporeal form at all, how will he teach rajyog?
Student: The Father says, I come temporarily in an ordinary body. Baba, where does this apply?
Baba: Yes, this is what He says: I come temporarily in an ordinary body. I do not come to teach rajyog. I just come to narrate Vani in this ordinary body. The foundation of listening and narration of the path of devotion is laid in the basic (knowledge). This will not be called knowledge. Knowledge means understanding. Whatever Murli you listen to and whatever Murli you narrated to others; if you haven’t understood it and if you narrated it to others despite your ignorance then is it a path of Bhakti or a path of knowledge? It is a path of Bhakti. This is why it was said: I do not come to teach rajyog in this temporary Chariot. (Student: ordinary body) What did you read now? (Student: Ordinary body) Yes, both are ordinary bodies indeed.
Student: Baba, Brahma Baba is a fair complexioned, tall and broad form; he will not be called an ordinary body, will he?
Baba: It has been called ordinary because ever since he entered the path of knowledge, the body had become old. The dress is ordinary. When he was not in knowledge he used to look well-built young like a king. After entering the path of knowledge he became ordinary, did he not?...(to be continued)

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 13 Oct 2011

Disc.CD No.848, Dental College
Extracts-Part-3


Time: 24.12-26.00Student: Baba, there are no clothes in the Golden Age; so, why are Radha and Krishna shown to be wearing clothes here, in the picture of Lakshmi Narayan?
Baba: Yes, why are Lakshmi and Narayan shown to be wearing clothes?
Student: Why are Radha and Krishna of the Golden Age shown to be wearing clothes?
Baba: And what about Lakshmi-Narayan?
Student: They have been shown to be wearing clothes.
Baba: Lakshmi-Narayan as well as Radha-Krishna have been shown to be wearing clothes. All the souls, whether they become ready by making purusharth (spiritual effort) in the Golden Confluence Age, or whether they will be born in the Golden Age; will they have the decoration of divine virtues or not there? They will have. Is that decoration of divine virtues an inner thing or something that is visible externally? That is an inner thing. So, how would the artist have depicted it? So, to show that, the artist has shown the decorations; Vishnu is shown with so many decorations. And Shankarji does not have anything. “I, a nirgunhare am completely devoid of virtues.” Nobody listens at all. (Someone said something). Then does anyone become the one having a faithful intellect? (Someone said – Some become) Some become? Have you seen anyone with a faithful intellect? Today they are the ones having a faithful intellect; tomorrow they hurl abuses. [They say,] our intellect was misled; some ghost or evil spirit had entered me. ... So, either Vishnu, who assimilates the complete purusharth in the Confluence Age or the deities of the Golden Age and the Silver Age are shown to be wearing the decorations of divine virtues.

Time: 26.00-30.24Student: Baba, won’t there be clothes in the Golden Age?
Baba: Should any task be performed without any reason or not? Whatever task is performed; suppose you are sitting wearing clothes now; so, will there be any reason for wearing clothes or not? What is the reason? This one is body conscious as well as that one is body conscious; and that one is also body conscious. If we make this 100% firm for some time that we are not bodies; what are we? We are souls. If we make this 100 percent firm then take off everything (i.e. all your clothes) and throw them away right now. Will you throw them away? Why will you not throw them? It is because body consciousness is present within you, isn’t it? So, those clothes have been worn to hide body consciousness.

Secondly, there is the winter season, there is the rainy season, there is summer; clothes are worn to save oneself from cold[, heat, rain]. Why hasn’t anyone worn warm clothes now? It is because it is not winter now. When the winter [season] starts you will wear warm clothes. So, it proves that any task is performed with a reason. Why has this building been constructed? There must be some reason. Why was it built? The body conscious people raise walls to hide their acts of body consciousness. [They think:] he should not see; she should not see; nobody should see. They raise walls, don’t they? So, they have raised walls.

Walls are also built to save ourselves from cold and heat. Will there be winter and summer in the Golden Age? There won’t. Will there be body consciousness there, in the Golden Age? There will not be. Everyone will consider himself to be a soul; they will see others in a soul conscious stage too. The point of light soul will be visible. Where do we practice this? We are practicing this here in the Confluence Age itself. While practicing this, our thoughts in the end will lead us to our final destination. While practicing this, such a time will also come when the star will be remembered for 24 hours. Will this practice become firm or not? It will become. When the last thought comes, when it is the last period, when it is the time to leave the body, then as the thoughts in the end, so shall be our destination. We will remember only the point for 21 births. We will not remember the body. So, will the deities have the organs that bring body consciousness, the organs that reveal the vice of lust, the corrupt organs? Will those organs work? Neither will they work nor will they exist. This is why, because of the absence of body consciousness; there is no need for clothes etc. there. The cloth like body itself will be very beautiful there. What do they do now? How are the bodies? Some are like this, some are like that; the cheeks of someone have gone inside; the eyes of someone have gone inside. Everyone is different. If every body is undressed, they are so ugly that people will start running away. Everyone is out of shape. And in the Golden Age, the cloth like bodies of the deities will be so beautiful that there will not be any need to wear clothes, there won’t be any need to decorate them at all.


Time: 30.25-32.20
Student: Baba, there is no night in the Confluence Age (i.e. Golden Age) and there are no months and years there. In the Golden Age.

Baba: There are no years.
Student: So, how is the calculation of 1250 yrs. done there?
Baba: Are days counted when there is sorrow, does a person count days, each day, when there is sorrow or are days counted when there is happiness? (Everyone said: When there is sorrow…) Let that brother answer . He is a new brother.
Student: How do we come to know in the Golden Age…
Baba: I am asking, does a person count days, hours when there is sorrow or does he count hours when he is happy? When does a person count time? It is in sorrow. So, in this world of 2500 years the Shak Era is being found, the Christian Era is being found, the Vikram Era is being found, the Hijri Era is being found. Are these being found in the world of sorrow or are these the eras of the world of happiness? (Student: of the world of sorrow). So, a person counts time in the world of sorrow. In sorrow this thought comes inside, “O time! Pass quickly. In times of happiness you don’t stay for a while despite keeping a thousand guards for you. In times of sorrow you stop completely; what is your way of working? So, this counting time is a tradition of the world of sorrow. When there was the kingdom of Ram and Krishna in the Golden Age and the Silver Age, when there was the kingdom of Narayan, there was no need to count days there at all .... (to be continued).

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 14 Oct 2011

Disc.CD No.848, Dental College
Extracts-Part-4


Time: 32.20-33.30
Student: Baba, it has been said in a Murli ‘in future only the couples will do service’. So, where will these kumars (unmarried men) and adharkumars (married men) go?

Baba: Are the adharkumars not couples now?
Student: Kumars.
Baba: [Do you mean] where will the kumars go? Kumars should make such good purusharth that just as the soul of Ram, the soul of Narayan realizes its form since the year 1976; before the year 1976, is the soul of Narayan a kumar or an adharkumar? He is a kumar. And that kumar comes to know that this particular soul is going to be my partner for 21 births. So, when one [soul] can realize, can’t many realize? When one can realize many can also realize.

Time: 33.33-36.08
Student: Where is God’s home?

Baba: Who is called God?
Student: ShivBaba.
Baba: Who is ShivBaba? (Someone said: a point). From where does the point come? (Someone said: the Supreme Abode) So, where is the home? Arey, where is the home? The Supreme Abode is the home. When He comes in this world as well, He prepares a Supreme Abode. Children go out of home to earn, if they are attacked, if they become sorrowful after going out to foreign countries, where will they run to? They will run home, to the Father’s home. So, a similar time is going to come now. What? The true Brahmin children of the Father, who take the support of the Father, are now scattered in India and abroad. When the bad time begins, when the fire of destruction spreads everywhere, when the market of death opens, where will the children reach? They will reach the Father’s home. This is why it has been said in the Murli, you children will bring the Supreme Abode down on this Earth. All the children in that world of Brahmins will be the ones who remain constant in the thoughtless seed form stage. What? Neither will there be business nor will anyone remember it. Neither will there be relatives nor will they come to the mind. Neither will there be things nor will they come to the mind. This is why what is shown in the bhandara (kitchen) of Jagannath? Eat a little khichri to fill stomach and go on making purusharth.

Time: 36.10-37.17
Student: Baba, the soul of Sevakram had left its body in 1942; after that Shiv entered Brahma Baba in 1947; so, where was the Supreme Soul Shiv for 4, 5 years?

Baba: Why? Has it not been said in the Murli ‘he who lived together for 10 years; she used to go into trance; Baba used to enter them. They used to give directions. They used to play a part.’? So, were they two or one? So, the one who has been described in the form of a woman; there was a mother too who used to control the entire Yagya; she used to control even Mama Baba. They used to give directions even to Mama Baba. This is why it has been said in the Murli, ‘Actually even this Brahma Saraswati are not your Mama Baba. Why was it said so? It is because there were some souls who used to control even Mama and Baba in the beginning of the Yagya.

Time: 37.19-
Student: And Brahma Baba left his body in 1969, and the revelation of Baba took place in 1976, so where was that soul, i.e. the Supreme Soul for 4-5 years?

Baba: When a soul is born, if someone asks, this child who is born, where was he before being born? Arey, was he somewhere or not? He was in the womb, wasn’t he? He was hidden. So, the soul of Brahma was also playing a hidden part before 1976. He has received a similar name in history ‘Chandragupt’ ( the hidden moon). Was this name given or not? Vishnugupt (the hidden Vishnu). Names were given, weren’t they? So, since 1969 to 1976, it is not that ShivBaba vanished, the point of light Shiv vanished or Brahma Baba vanished. No. The moon of knowledge Brahma as well as the Sun of Knowledge Shiv remained in this world; but He remained hidden in the stomach like intellect. Thinking and churning continued inside. Nobody else can know.

When the child (soul) enters the womb, does the mother come to know about it or do others come to know? The mother comes to know. So, what is this body? This corporeal body, in which the Earth like intellect is present, this land on which the blood of thoughts flows; the soul of Krishna, the soul of the Moon and the soul of Shiv, both were present in that womb like intellect. And it has also been said in the Avyakt Vani of that time that ‘BapDada enter children and do service. Children are tamopradhan (dominated by darkness and ignorance). Children cannot do the task of ‘service’. Yes, if children show courage; BapDada help. They enter and extend help through drishti, they extend help through words, they extend help through vibrations. They extend the help of new points of knowledge. And He uplifts the student who has to be uplifted by explaining to him. So, it is not so that the Father Shiv and the soul of Brahma, i.e. the moon of knowledge went above to the Supreme Abode from 69 to 76. No. Their part was going on in a hidden form in this world itself. A declaration was made from 76, the year of revelation of the Father. It has been written in numerous Avyakt Vanis.
...(to be continued)

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 15 Oct 2011

Disc.CD No.848, Dental College
Extracts-Part-5


Time: 40.56-48.10
Student: Dussehra falls in the Shukla paksha while Diwali falls in the Krishna paksha ; they are one and the same.

Baba: Are they one?
Student: Baba, it is about the same day, it will be Vijayadashami as well as Diwali.
Baba: Which paksh (fortnight) will come after Shukla paksh? Dipawali. So, does Dipawali come in Krishna paksh or in Shukla paksh? Dipawali comes in Krishna paksh and Dussehra in Shukla paksh. It proves that the nine female deities and the female deities connected with them, are they widows? Are they? They will certainly be married ones. The worship of female deities is being shown. And when the worship of female deities is shown, do they show the male deities? They do not. It means that the souls which were to become male deities along with the female deities were the ones who play the part of Duryodhan and Dushasan . It is not that they did not make purusharth. They did make purusharth. Their purusharth was to become constant in the seed form stage. Whose? (Someone said: the female deities) No. The male deities. That is a male body. The male body is the Father. He can become constant in the seed form stage. And the virgins and mothers cannot become constant in the seed form stage to the extent they become skilled in remembering the corporeal form. What? It becomes easy for the virgins and mothers to remember the incorporeal one within the corporeal one. And it becomes easy for the brothers to become constant only in an incorporeal stage, in the soul conscious stage. A difference appears in their actions as well. This is why it has been said in the Avyakt Vani, those who worship the corporeal one will be the ones with good character (charitravaan). It means that those who worship the incorporeal one will not be the ones with good character.

What is the Rudramala (the rosary of Rudra)? Is it a worshipper of the incorporeal one or the worshipper of the corporeal one? They are worshippers of the incorporeal one. Their intellect goes towards the incorporeal one again and again. They lose faith in the corporeal one. Do they lose faith in the corporeal one or not? Do they or not? They do. They certainly [lose faith] to some extent or the other. So, the virgins and mothers are worshippers of the corporeal one. They are the ones with good character and the ones with good character are worshipped. The group which is worshipped is going towards the Shukla paksh. The soul of Krishna is the head of all of them, he is their representative. Which soul is a representative of the virgins and mothers? Brahma. Call him Brahma or Jagdamba, he is a representative soul. So, will he move towards perfection, i.e. full moon or not? He will. When the soul of Krishna plays the part of full moon, when he moves towards perfection, all the female deities move towards perfection. This is why that Shukla paksh is shown. The demons are destroyed by the female deities.

The burning of Ravan was shown…. Ram has been shown in Ramleela. Actually, Ram does not burn Ravan. Ram has been mentioned as God in Ramayana. Is God a soul that is above , who always remains in a high stage or is it the soul below who is born in the Silver Age? It is the soul above. So, God Ram who has been mentioned in Ramayana is the soul that is above. Is the one who is below in a stage of Duryodhan-Dushasan or not? Even he is in that stage. He can be (Duryodhan – Dusshasan) in percentage, but it cannot be possible that he does not become (Duryodhan-Dushasan). This is why when Ravan is burnt the nine female deities are worshipped. Nobody even remembers the male deities.

The Ram who is praised, that Ram is the soul from above. He burns Ravan, but He does not burn Ravan Himself ; through whom does He do that? The female destroyers of demons are famous. The virgins and mothers become instruments. So, Dussehra is celebrated in the Shukla paksh. And what about Dipawali? Arey, when will lamps be lit? In the day time? They will be lit in the night. So, when it is a completely dark night, the lamp of the part of Dharmaraj is lit at first. Who plays the part of Dharmaraj? The soul of Krishna. Will the Father enable the child to move forward or will he himself move forward? He enables the child to move forward. The Father seats the children on his head. He earns throughout life. He gives birth to children, educates them, sustains them and when the child grows up, he entrusts the savings of the entire life to the child. Will you find such a nice obedient servant in the world? You cannot. So, from where does this tradition begin? It starts from the Confluence Age.


Time: 48-19-54.20
Student: Baba, Chanakya gave guidance to Chandragupt, didn’t he? Who plays the part of Chanakya?

Baba: Who plays the part of Chanakya? The one who makes kings himself plays the part of Chanakya. Is Chandragupta a king or the one who makes kings? He is a king indeed. Who was the one who made him a king? He certainly did not become [a king] on his own. He doesn’t become this on his own. The one who makes him a king was Chanakya. He is a guru. These stories are the memorials of which time? Where is the foundation for them laid? It is laid in the Confluence Age. A name has also been coined, Chankya has been named Vishnugupt. What? What kind of Vishnu? Hidden Vishnu. If you go to the temple of Lakshmi-Narayan there are very magnificient idols installed in the temple of Lakshmi-Narayan. Actually, Baba has described Lakshmi and Narayan themselves as Vishnu. But which souls became instruments in making even those Lakshmi-Narayan? Mostly in the Indian tradition, is Krishna or Ram considered to be Vishnu’s incarnation? Or do they consider both [as the incarnation of Vishnu]? They consider both [as incarnations of Vishnu], but still, Ram has not been given the Chakkra . Who has been given it? Krishna has been given the Chakkra. What is the reason?

Who studies? The soul of Krishna studies. The soul of Ram is just an instrument. For whom is the entire knowledge? It is for the child Krishna. The entire knowledge is for the one with a child-like intellect. So, he is Vishnugupt. All the four souls: Ram, Sita, Radha and Krishna together play the part of Vishnu. But there are two souls among them who are hidden Vishnu and two souls are Vishnu in a revealed form. Even in the Confluence Age if you see, which is the couple who has been observed to have harmonizing nature and sanskars practically in the Confluence Age, in the world of Brahmins? Is there anyone or not?
(Someone said: there is.) Who? Mama-Baba. Mama used to follow whatever Baba said. So, their nature and sanskar matched, i.e. they were a form of Vishnu, weren’t they?

But even before them there were some other souls in the Yagya because in the last birth Brahma Baba was following the path of household with mother Yashoda in the 84th birth. Did his sanskars match with that of mother Yashoda? They didn’t. Its proof is that he did not make mother Yashoda the incharge of the Yagya, of the virgins and mothers. Whom did he make? He made Mama as incharge. But in the beginning of the Yagya were there any souls in the form of founders or not who play the part as Vishnu because if they are in the beginning they will be in the end as well. Arey, if they are not in the beginning of the Yagya itself, how will they emerge in the end? So, who were they? The same souls, who became instruments in giving the birth of knowledge to Mama and Baba, who made this subject sit in the intellect of Mama and Baba, you are the first leaves of the world tree. You have to be born as Radha and Krishna in the new heavenly world. Who made this fact sit in their intellect? Did it sit in their intellect through visions? No. Then someone must have made it sit. So, who were they? They were the same souls of the beginning of the Yagya
. ...(to be continued)

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 17 Oct 2011

Disc.CD No.848, Dental College
Extracts-Part-6


Time: 54.22-55.42
Student: Baba, Courts are of three types: one is the lower court, second is the high court and the third is the Supreme Court. So, the Supreme Court proves the Supreme Father; hence it was named the Supreme Court. The remaining two courts the high court and lower court; on what basis are these names kept?

Baba: The Supreme Court is like a Maharaja who is called an emperor. In all the big kingdoms, whose decision used to be final? The emperor’s. So, he is like the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Then there used to be small kingdoms, [the rules of] which are called kings. Those are like High Courts. And there used to be controllers under them too. So, they were actually lower courts.

Time: 55.43-56.37
Student: Baba, do the souls who leave their body in completely old age also take on a subtle body?

Baba: Only those souls who leave their bodies suddenly, before the completion of their age take on a subtle body, even if it is Brahma Baba himself. He was old, he left his body in old age; but did he leave his body suddenly or did he leave his body after completing his age? He left his body suddenly; this is why he has to take on a subtle body. It is not that all those who are old are about to die therefore they will not get a subtle body; it is not necessary [that it will happen that way].

Time: 56.39-01.01.24
Student: Baba it has been written in the Gita, O Arjun, I had given the knowledge that I am giving you to the Sun God in the beginning of the creation. Later the Sun gave it to Manu, Manu gave it to Ikshvaku. After that, this knowledge was distributed among the rajrishis (the royal sages). Then it became extinct. Who are all these people?

Baba: So, is there not a Sun of Knowledge? There is a Sun of Knowledge; only then there was the Sun dynasty . Arey, if there is no Raghu, how will there be a Raghu dynasty? Should there be a first king named Raghu or not? There should be. It is similar to: King Edward the first, King Edward second, third, fourth. Kings were named like this in London, weren’t they? So, was there a number one Edward or not? There was. Similarly, the name, ‘the Moon dynasty’ and ‘the Sun dynasty’ that has been given, was there a Moon and Sun in a living form who were their creator, their Father or not? There was. Who were they? Who is it in practical now? With what should we tally the topics of the scriptures? Tally it with the Confluence Age. So, who is that Sun who existed in the beginning of the Yagya, in the middle as well as in the end? Who is he?

The soul of Ram was in the beginning of the Yagya, he is in the middle too, he will be in the end as well. Other planets and satellites may clash and perish, but the Sun? The Sun and the Earth cannot perish. So, someone must have obtained the knowledge from the Sun. There was the Sun in the beginning of the Yagya; did someone obtain knowledge or not? Even in the beginning of the Yagya were there any souls who decorated even the Didis and Dadis with virtues or not? There were. So, the souls who decorated them with divine virtues in the beginning of the Yagya are themselves the eight deities who thought and churned about the explanation of those visions. It was they who thought and churned first of all. They were the sons of Sun. Was there one Manu or many? (Someone said: one) There was not one [Manu]. There have been many with the name Manu. All those were Manus who thought and churned. Those Manus are the ancestors (poorvaj) of the entire world. This human world was created from those Manus themselves. The world of the Suryavanshis (those who belong to the Sun dynasty) was created by Sun. The world of the Chandravanshis (those who belong to the Moon dynasty) was created by the Moon. There is a seed form soul of the Islam among the eight deities who created the world of the Islam religion. There is a seed form soul of Buddhism among the eight deities who created the world of the Buddhist religion. So, there are many with the name Manu, aren’t they? But there must have been a first Manu also. Human beings (manushya) are said to have been born from him. Among those human beings, the Brahmins are first. The nine categories of Brahmins were created. They themselves formed the nine religions
....[end of the VCD]

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 26 Oct 2011

वार्तालाप-541, कलकत्ता, पार्ट-2, दिनांक 24.03.08
उद्धरण-भाग-1


समयः 6.07-6.46
जिज्ञासुः अभी-2 बोला ना शिवबाबा सदा कायम रहेगा। तो शिवबाबा तो साकार में है और साकार तन....

बाबाः सदा का मतलब ये है, शिव माना बिंदी और वो बिंदुरूपी स्टेऔज जो है वो परसेन्टेज में है। सतयुग के आदि में वो प्रजापिता की स्टेज सौ परसेन्ट है। दूसरे जन्म में थोडी कम होती, तीसरे, चौथे और अंतिम 84 वे जन्म में भी थोडी कम होती लेकिन पूरी खत्म नहीं होती।
जिज्ञासु-....
बाबा- हाँ, इसलिए हर युग में वो आत्मिक स्टे्ज कुछ न कुछ रहती जरूर है।

समयः 6.50-8.45
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, हमने रिवाइज़्ड मुरली में हमने पढ़ा है, ये है व्यक्त प्रजापिता ब्रह्मा, वो है अव्यक्त। फिर लिखा है, है तो दोनों एक।

बाबा- ये है व्यक्त माना जिस समय ब्रह्मा बाबा जीवित थे। उनके मुख से ये वाणी चलाई जा रही थी। उस समय ब्रह्मा बाबा की तरफ इशारा किया, ये है व्यक्त ।
जिज्ञास - ब्रह्माबाबा ... प्रजापिता का पार्ट भी... बाबा- दोनों जीवित थे। इसलिए बोला- ये है व्यक्त और फिर वही प्रजापिता जब ज्ञान में आ जाता है, बेसिक नॉलेज ले लेता है, फाउन्डेशन बेसिक ज्ञान का पक्का हो जाता है, मैं आत्मा हूँ तो वो अव्यक्त स्टेज धारण कर लेता है। मनन-चिंतन-मंथन में स्थाई हो जाता है। इसलिए उन दोनों के लिए बताया एक। दोनों ही एक है। अभी जब तक वाणी चल रही थी तब तक था व्यक्त माना दुनियावी बातों में बुद्धि लगी हुई थी, हद की बातों में बुद्धि लगी हुई थी। ब्रह्मा की भी और प्रजापिता वाली आत्मा की भी व्यक्त बातों में बुद्धि लगी हुई थी। लेकिन जैसे ही ब्रह्मा बाबा ने शरीर छोडा और प्रजापिता वाली आत्मा ज्ञान में आ जाती है बेसिक में तो वो मनन-चिंतन-मंथन की गहराई में चली जाती है; इसलिए वो अव्यक्त हो जाती है। शरीर होते हुए भी अव्यक्त हो जाती है। इसंलिए बोला- चाहे व्यक्त है और चाहे वो अव्यक्त‍ लेकिन हैं दोनों एक। ऐसे बोला है।

समयः 09.00 – 10.36
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, ब्रह्मलोक में एक फरलांग कितना होता है?

बाबाः फरलांग तो जो यहाँ की बात है वही वहाँ की बात बताई। लेकिन ब्रह्मलोक भी दो प्रकार के बता दिये। एक ब्रह्मलोक है- जो निराकारी दुनिया है और निराकारी दुनिया के ब्रह्मलोक के लिए यहाँ बोला है- तुम ब्रह्मलोक को यहाँ उतार लेंगे। परमधाम को तुम साकारी सृष्टि पर उतार लेंगे माना साकारी सृष्टि में जो आत्मिक स्टेज में टिकने वाली आत्मायें है उनको ज्यादा लम्बे-चौड़े घर की जरूरत नहीं है। उनकी दिल में ही इतनी जगह होगी कि थोड़ी जगह में बहुतों को समेट सकते हैं। जैसे शहद की मक्खियाँ होती हैं। कितनी मक्खियाँ रहती हैं छोटे से छत्ते में? हजारों की तादाद में और सब एक-दूसरें से कन्ट्रोल्ड। सब अपने-2 काम में लगी रहती हैं। एक-दूसरे से झगडते हैं कि तुमने हमारे माथे से माथा क्यों भिडाय दिया, तुम हमारे ऊपर क्यों चढ़ बैठी? कभी झगडा होता है? नहीं होता। तो ऐसे ही कहा जाता है कि दिल के अंदर जगह होती है। जगह की ज्यादा जरूरत होती नहीं है। दिल बड़ा होना चाहिए। एक फरलांग पाँचसौ-सातसौ करोड़ बिन्दु-2 आत्माओं के लिए काफी है।

समय: 13.10 - 15.32
जिज्ञासु: जब बाबा दृष्टि देते हैं तो थोड़ा-2 आँखें बुझ जाती है।

दूसरा जिज्ञासु: आँखें छोटी हो जाती है।
बाबा: ऐसा है, एक होता है व्यक्त स्टेज, आँखें पूरी खुली हुई है और फिर भी पूरी आँखें खुली होते हुए भी निराकारी बिन्दु की स्टेज छूटती नहीं है। निराकारी बिन्दु रूपी स्टेज भी याद है, सुप्रीम सोल भी याद है और साथ-2 जिस आत्मा को दृष्टि दी जा रही है वो भी देखने में आती है। लेकिन कभी-2 क्या होता है, 63 जन्मों के हिसाब किताब राम वाली आत्मा के भी होते हैं कि नहीं होते हैं? होते है। और वो हिसाब किताब इतने तीव्र होते हैं कि ज्यादा शक्ति होने पर भी, ज्यादा ताकत पूरी पुरुषार्थ की पावर लगाने पर भी वो दोनों चीजे नहीं हो पाती कि सुप्रीम सोल बाप भी याद रहे और सामने वाली आत्मा भी याद रहे। तो सामने वाली आत्मा को कभी-2 ऐसे लगता है कि वो दृष्टि नहीं ले पा रही है।

जैसे अव्यक्त स्टेज है वो शंकर के चित्रों में भी दो प्रकार की दिखाई गई है। एक तो पूरी आँखें खुली हुई है लेकिन निराकारी स्टेज स्पष्ट दिखाई देती है और कभी-2 क्या होता है आँखें अर्ध ...
(किसीने कहा- बन्द) नहीं बन्द नहीं। अर्ध नीमिनित। अगर बन्द हो जाए, नींद आ जाए तो झुटका भी आयेगा और झुटका आयेगा इसका मतलब नींद आ गई। तो नींद आने वाली बात नहीं। लेकिन वो निराकारी स्टेज में जैसी शक्ति लेने वाले को मिलनी चाहिए वैसी शक्ति लेने वाली आत्मायें भी नहीं खींच पाती और देने वाली आत्मा जो है वो उस निराकारी स्टेज में टिकने के लिए बहुत पुरुषार्थ होता है। दोनों को ही पुरुषार्थ करना पड़ता है।

समयः 15.47-16.38
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, राम को 14 वर्ष का वनवास दिखाया। ज्ञान से इसका क्या ताल्लुक?

बाबाः ज्ञान से इसका क्या कनेक्शन? जैसे राम को 14 वर्ष का वनवास गाया और राम के संगी-साथियों को भी दिखाया। ऐसे ही पाण्डवों को 13 वर्ष का वनवास दिखाया। पाण्ड वों को 13 वर्ष का। तो ये जो 13 वर्ष की, 14 वर्ष की बातें हैं वो कहाँ की यादगार है? संगमयुग की यादगार है। पहले आराम से ठाठ में घर में बैठकर के पुरूषार्थ करते होंगे एक जगह स्थाई होकर के, बाद में फिर काँटो के जंगल में भटकना पड़े। तो जो काँटो के जंगल में भटकने की यादगार है वही 13-14 साल दिखा दिये।

समयः 19.00-19.41
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, 14 साल राम को वनवास हुआ, 14 साल बोला कब से? 98 से बाबा?

बाबाः जब से प्रत्यक्षता की शुरूआत हो उसी समय से कहा जायेगा। कृष्ण1 के लिए कहें तो कृष्ण। गर्भ में कब तक है और गर्भ से बाहर कब हुआ? तो गर्भ से बाहर हुआ माना शुरूआत हो गई। कृष्णण के बिगर पाण्डव नहीं, पाण्डवों के बगैर कृष्ण नहीं।

समयः 19.52-22.38
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, कृष्ण को बचपन दिखाया दो। एक गोरा है, एक साँवला है। मक्खन खाते हुए दिखाते हैं दो रूप?

बाबाः कृष्ण के जो दो रूप दिखाये गये है एक श्याम और एक सुंदर। वास्तव में दो रूप होते नहीं हैं इकट्ठे लेकिन जो शास्त्रों में नाम दिया हुआ है श्याम-सुंदर वो इस समय वर्तमान स्वरूप की यादगार है। जो बेसिक नॉलेज वाले हैं, जिनकी बुद्धि में पूरा ज्ञान नहीं बैठा हुआ है वो समझते हैं कृष्ण ऊर्फ दादा लेखराज की आत्मा ही सन् 68-69 तक श्याम पार्ट बजाती है और सतयुग में जब जन्म लेती है तो सुंदर पार्ट बजायेगी। तो उनके लिए उनकी बुद्धि में बैठा हुआ है कि वही श्याम-सुंदर का पार्ट है।

लेकिन ये श्याम-सुंदर एक का नाम है या दो व्यक्तित्व के नाम हैं? एक का नाम है। और 68-69 तक तो व्यक्तित्व एक अलग है और सतयुग में जो जन्म लेगा वो तो व्यक्तित्व?, वो पर्सनालिटी ही दूसरी हो जाती है। तो दो पर्सनालिटियों के अलग-2 नाम थोडे ही जोड़े गये हैं। वास्तव में वो कृष्ण वाली सोल दादा लेखराज की सोल ही 76 से जिस तन में प्रवेश होकर के पार्ट बजाती है साकार में वो जब तक वो पुरूषार्थ सम्पूर्ण नहीं होता है, शिवोहम् जो बात बुद्धि में बैठी हुई है वो खलास नहीं होती है, “मैं गीता का भगवान हूँ साकार में इस सृष्टि पर” ये बात जब तक खत्म न हो तब तक वो श्याम पार्ट बजाती है और जैसे ही ये बात खत्म हो जाती है वैसे ही वो आत्मा सुंदर पार्ट बजाती है। शरीर एक ही रहता है। संगमयुगी कृष्ण की यादगार है। सतयुग वाले कृष्ण की यादगार सुंदर पार्ट की नहीं है और न संगमयुग में दादा लेखराज के तन में जो कृष्णा की सोल ने पार्ट बजाया उसकी यादगार है। ये श्याम-सुंदर जो पार्ट है वो शिव-शंकर भोलेनाथ के पार्ट की यादगार है। जो गीता का भगवान संसार में प्रत्यक्ष होने वाला है।


Disc.CD No.541, dated 24.03.08 at Calcutta, Part-2
Extracts-Part-1


Time: 6.07-6.46
Student: Just now it has been said that ShivBaba will be present always. But ShivBaba is in corporeal form and the corporeal body….

Baba: ‘Always’ means that Shiv means a point and that point-like stage is in percentage. In the beginning of the Golden Age that Prajapita is in hundred percent [point like] stage. A little less in the next birth, in the third, fourth birth and in the last 84th birth too it is a little lesser, but it does not end completely. (Someone said something.) Yes, so that soul conscious stage exists to some extent or the other in every age.

Time: 6.50-8.45
Student: Baba, I have read in a revised Murli that this is the Vyakt Prajapita Brahma….

Baba: This one?
Student: (This one is) Vyakt Prajapita Brahma. That one is Avyakt.
Baba: Yes, please proceed.
Student: Then it has been written that both are one and the same.
Baba: This one is vyakt (manifest) means that when Brahma Baba was alive, when this Vani was being narrated through his mouth, at that time it was hinted about Brahma Baba that this one is vyakt (manifest).
Student: The part of Brahma Baba…Prajapita….
Baba: Both were alive. This is why it was said : This one is vyakt and when the same Prajapita enters the path of knowledge, when he obtains the basic knowledge, when the foundation of the basic knowledge becomes strong: I am a soul, he assumes an Avyakt (unmanifest) stage. He becomes constant in thinking and churning. This is why it has been said for both of them that they are one and the same. Both of them are one and the same. Now, until the Vanis were being narrated, he was vyakt, i.e. his intellect was busy in worldly affairs, in the affairs of a limited sense. The intellect of Brahma as well as the soul of Prajapita was busy in gross affairs. But as soon as Brahma Baba left his body and the soul of Prajapita enters the path of basic knowledge, it goes into the depth of thinking and churning. This is why he becomes Avyakt. Despite having a body, he becomes Avyakt. This is why it was said, whether he is vyakt or he is Avyakt , both are one and the same. It has been said like this.

Time: 09.00-10.36
Student: Baba, how much does one furlong measure in the Supreme Abode (Brahmlok)?

Baba: Furlong that is applicable here is applicable there as well. But Brahmlok itself is said to be of two kinds. One Brahmlok is the incorporeal world and for the Brahmlok of the incorporeal world it has been said here that you will bring the Brahmlok down to this place. You will bring down the Supreme Abode to this corporeal world, meaning the souls which become constant in the soul conscious stage do not require a very big house. Their heart itself will have so much space that they can accommodate many in a little space. For example, there are honeybees. How many honey bees live in a small bee-hive? Thousands (live in a bee-hive) and each one of them is controlled by another [higher to it]. Each one is busy in its own job. Do they fight with each other: why did you clash your head with mine? Why did you climb over me? Do they ever fight? They do not. So, similarly, it is said that if there is space in the heart there is no need for more room. The heart should be big. One furlong is enough for 5-7 billion point-like souls.

Time: 13.10-15.32
Student: When Baba gives drishti, the eyes close a little.

Another Student: The eyes become smaller.
Baba: It is like this: one is the vyakt stage; the eyes are fully open and despite the eyes being fully open, the stage of the incorporeal point does not disappear; the incorporeal point like stage is remembered as well as the Supreme Soul is remembered and along with it the soul who is being given the drishti is also visible. But sometimes what happens is that… even the soul of Ram has the accounts of the 63 births, or not? He has. And those accounts are so powerful that in spite of having more strength, in spite of putting more force of purusharth both the things are not possible [together], that the Supreme Soul Father as well as the soul in front is remembered. So the soul in front feels that it is not able to take [the power of] drishti.

Just as there is the Avyakt stage, it is shown in two ways in the picture of Shankar as well, one is, in which both the eyes are open, but the incorporeal stage is clearly visible; while sometimes what happens is that the eyes are half… (Someone said: closed)... no, they are not closed, they are half open, if they are closed, if he feels sleepy, then he will nod off as well. If he nods off, it means he is sleepy. So it is not about sleeping but the extent of power that the soul taking [the drishti] should receive in the incorporeal stage; that soul taking [the drishti] is itself not able to pull that much power and [for] the soul giving the drishti… there is a lot of purusharth required for becoming constant in that incorporeal stage; both of them have to do purusharth.

Student: Baba, Ram is shown to have passed through 14 years of forest life. What is its connection with knowledge?
Baba: What is its connection with knowledge? Just as the 14 years of forest life of Ram has been sung and it has been shown for his companions as well; similarly, Pandavas have been shown to have spent 13 years in forest. 13 years in case of Pandavas. So, these topics of 13 years, 14 years are memorials of which time? They are memorials of the Confluence Age. Earlier they must be making efforts comfortably, luxuriously sitting at home, stable at one place; later on they have to wander in the jungle of thorns. So, the memorial of wandering in the jungle of thorns has been shown to be 13-14 years long.
Student: Baba, Ram spent 14 years in forest; from when do the fourteen years start? Baba is it from 1998?
Baba: It will be said to be from the time the revelation started; if it is said for Krishna, until when is Krishna in the womb and when did he come out of the womb? So, when he comes out of the womb, it means that the period (of forest life) has begun. There are no Pandavas without Krishna and there is no Krishna without the Pandavas.

Time: 19.52-22.38
Student: Baba, the childhood of Krishna has been depicted in two forms. One is fair and the other is dark. He is shown to be eating butter in two forms.

Baba: Two forms of Krishna which have been depicted: one is dark and the other is fair. Actually two forms are not simultaneous, but the name ‘Shyamsundar’ (dark and fair) coined in the scriptures is a memorial of the present time. Those who follow the basic knowledge, the ones in whose intellect the knowledge hasn’t entered completely feel that Krishna alias Dada Lekhraj’s soul plays a dark part till 68-69 and when he will be born in the Golden Age he will play a fair part. So, for them… it is in their intellect that that itself is the part of Shyamsundar.

But is this [name] Shyam-Sundar the name of one person or two personalities? It is the name of one person. And until 68-69 the personality is different and the one who will be born in the Golden Age, that personality itself is different. So, the names of two different personalities have not been combined? Actually, the body through which the soul of Krishna, the soul of Dada Lekhraj enters and plays a part in corporeal form since 76, until it completes its spiritual efforts, until the issue of Shivoham (I am Shiv) ends from the intellect, until the issue that ‘I am God of the Gita in corporeal form in this world’ ends it plays a dark part and as soon as this topic ends (from his intellect), that soul plays a fair part. The body remains the same. It is a memorial of the Confluence Age Krishna. The fair part is neither the memorial of the Golden Age Krishna nor a memorial of the part that the soul of Krishna played in the body of Dada Lekhraj in the Confluence Age. This part of Shyam Sundar is a memorial of the part of Shiv-Shankar Bholenath, who is going to be revealed as God of the Gita in the world
. ..(to be continued)

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arjun
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 27 Oct 2011

वार्तालाप-541, कलकत्ता, पार्ट-2, दिनांक 24.03.08
उद्धरण-भाग-2


समयः 26.25
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, वेद, विद्या, विनय, प्रतिष्ठा, चित्र दर्शन, निष्ठा, तप, जप, ज्ञान – ये नव लक्षण ब्राह्मणों का होता है। इसका क्या अर्थ है?

बाबाः देखो ब्राह्मणों की नौ कुरियाँ क्यों गाई गई हैं? नौ कुरियाँ गाई गई हैं माना नौ प्रकार के जो ब्राह्मण हैं वो नौ प्रकार के धर्मों में कनवर्ट होने वाले हैं। तो उन-2 धर्मों की जो भी विशेष गुण या अवगुण हैं उन ब्राह्मणों में विशेष रूप से समाये हुए हैं। इसलिए ब्राह्मणों की नौ कुरियाँ गाई हुई हैं। वही नौ विशेष गुणधर्म उनमें जरूर समाये हुए होने चाहिए; नहीं तो नौ कुरियों को अलग-2 क्यों किया गया? नौ धर्म हैं और नौ धर्मों से कनेक्टेड ब्राह्मणों की नौ कुरियाँ है जो अभी संगमयुग में तैयार हो रही हैं। उन नौ कुरियों में एक कुरि ऐसी है जिसका मुखिया वैल्यूलेस। उसकी कोई कीमत नहीं; बाकी आठ ऐसे हैं जिनकी वैल्यू है। उनको रत्नों के रूप में गिना जाता है। जैसे नौ रत्न। हैं उसमें मोस्ट वैल्यूऐबल रत्न है हीरा और नॉन-वैल्यूबल रत्न है पुखराज। पुखराज की कोई कीमत नहीं होती। ऐसे ही ये नौ गुणों की बात कर रहे हैं।

समयः 29.28
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, विनाश के बाद सतयुग में सात सागर रहेंगे कि नहीं?

बाबाः सतयुग में सात महाद्वीप रहेंगे कि नहीं?
जिज्ञासु- नहीं।
बाबा- जब सात महाद्वीप नहीं होंगे तो सात सागर भी नहीं होंगे। वहाँ एक ही सागर होगा। बाकी सब समुद्र में सारे ही महाद्वीप समुद्र में समा जायेंगे। तो एक ही सागर रह जायेगा या सात सागर होंगे? जब सात नारायणों ने ही अपनी खुदी को मर्ज कर दिया खुदा में तो सात महासागर कहाँ से रह जायेंगे? अभी तो टकरा रहे हैं और टकरायेंगे। ढ़ेर सारे प्रश्न कर रहे हैं। मनमनाभव नहीं बन गये लेकिन ऐसा भी टाईम आयेगा कि सारी दुनिया मनमनाभव हो जावेगी। कोई प्रश्न नहीं पैदा होगा। तो सात सागर अलग-2 कहे जायेंगे कि एक ही सागर रह जायेगा? एक ही सागर रह जायेगा।

समयः 30.43
जिज्ञासुः चाइना में तिब्बती लोग जो रिवोल्यूशन कर रहे हैं,... लड़ाई लड़ रहे हैं, उसमे बेहद का क्या बात है?

बाबा- कौन?
जिज्ञासु- चाइना में। तिब्बत को लेकर जो युद्ध कर रहे है।
बाबाः हर धर्म के दो भाग हो गये। चाइना कौनसा धर्मखंड है? बौद्धी धर्मखंड है। लेकिन जो बौद्धी धर्मखंड हो या दुनिया का कोई भी धर्मखंड हो वो कलियुग के अंत में आते-2 नास्तिकवाद से प्रभावित हो जाता है या नहीं हो जाता है?
जिज्ञासु- हो जाता है।
बाबा- तो वो हीनयान कहा गया। हीनता की और जा रहे है। जो हीनता की और जा रहे है वो अपनी हीनभावना को ही फैलावेंगे और एक है महायान। जो भगवान को बुद्ध के रूप में मानते है। वो मूर्तियों को तोड़ने वाले और वो मूर्तियों को जोड़ने वाले, बनाने वाले। इसलिए तिब्बत में ज्यादा प्रभाव कौनसे धर्म का है? जो साकार महात्मा बुद्ध को मानने वाले हैं। इसलिए झगड़ा तो जरूर होगा।

समयः 32.23
जिज्ञासुः बाबा साइलेंस पॉवर क्या है और साइलेंस पॉवर कैसे जमा किया जाए?

बाबाः कॉन्सट्रेशन ही साइलेन्स पॉवर है और कॉन्सट्रेशन वही कर सकता है जिसको आत्मा और परमात्मा का असली परिचय मिल गया। परिचय के आधार पर जो जितना गहराई से याद करेगा उतना उसको पॉवर मिलेगी। ये है सूक्ष्म पॉवर, उन साइन्सदानों की है एटम की पावर। वो एटम उनका है स्थूाल। जो स्थूल अणु है उनको काट-काटकर के सूक्ष्म बनाते है। जैसे कोई दवाई होती है। कोई दवाई को जितना ज्यादा घिसा जायेगा उतनी ज्यादा पॉवरफुल बन जाती है। ऐसे ही ये आत्मा को भी घिसना होता है स्मृति के खरल में। जितना हम आत्मिक स्थिति को महीन बनाते जावेंगे उतनी हमारी पॉवर कॉन्साट्रेशन की बढ़ती जावेगी। अभी पॉवर बहुत कम है।
जिज्ञासु- लेकिन बाबा आत्मिक स्थिति तो सारा दिन में चले या अमृतवेला चलना है?
बाबा- फाउन्डेशन में जो काम जितना अच्छा हो जायेगा वो लास्ट तक भी अच्छा् ही देता रहेगा। जैसे मकान बनाया जाता है तो मकान का फाउन्डेशन अर्थात् नींव जितनी गहरी और जितनी पक्की बना दी जायेगी उतनी जास्ती लम्बी और मलटिस्टोरी बिल्डिंग खड़ी की जा सकती है। अगर फाउन्डेशन कच्चान होगा तो बिल्डिंग भी कच्ची रह जावेगी। ऐसे ही जो ज्ञान में आते है जिस समय ज्ञान में आते हैं उस समय ही जिन्होंने आत्मिक स्थिति को, प्रैक्टिस को ज्यानदा पक्का कर दिया उनका फाउन्डेशन पक्का हो जाता है और जिन्होंने कच्चा फाउन्डेशन डाला वो अंत मते उनकी वैसी ही कमजोर गति हो जायेगी। क्या पूछा?
जिज्ञासु- आत्मिक स्थिति सारा दिन में भी तो हो सकता ना?
बाबा- बताया ना अमृतवेला है शुरूआत। अमृतवेला माना सूर्य निकला। अमृतवेले का मतलब क्या है? सूर्य निकलने का टाईम और आत्मा जब ज्ञान में आती है तभी उसके लिए सूर्य उदय होता है। भोर भयो और सवेरा, आँख खुली और सवेरा। तो यहाँ ज्ञान की आँख जब जिसकी खुलती है उसके लिए वो अमृतवेला है। उस अमृतवेले फाउन्डेशन के वेले में उस बेहद के वेले में जो जितनी आत्मिक स्थिति की प्रैक्टिस पक्की कर लेता है वो उतना ही अंत समय में उसका सुहाला गुजरेगा। पॉवरफुल आत्मा बनकर के संसार में प्रत्यक्ष होगी और जिसने ज्ञान में आने के टाईम पर ही अलबेलापन धारण कर लिया, कुछ ध्यान दिया कुछ नहीं दिया फाउन्डेशन कच्चा हो गया। वो है बेहद का अमृतवेला और ये सबेरे जो 2 से 4-5 बजे के बीच में होता है ये है हद का अमृतवेला। इसकी भी विशेषता है। प्रैक्टिस कर के देख लो। अच्छी तरह से 2-4, 3-4 बार चाय पीकर के बैठो। चाय पियेंगे तो अलर्टनेस आ जायेगी लेकिन वो अल्‍पकाल की होगी। लेकिन प्रैक्टिस का पता चल जायेगा कि सारा अमृतवेला सोना नहीं और फिर सारा दिन अवस्था देखो कितनी बढिया रहती है। फिर वो आदत न पड़ जाये चाय पीने की नहीं तो सब सत्यानाश कर देगी।

समयः 36.45-37.43
जिज्ञासुः बाबा आदिदेव-आदिदेवी, आदिनाथ-आदिनाथिनी, एडम-ईव। आदिदेव तो प्रजापिता हो गया। आदिदेवी कौन हुआ? आदिनाथिनी, आदिदेवी कौन हुआ?

बाबाः जो नई सृष्टि की आदि करे सो आदिदेवी। जो नई सृष्टि की आदि करे...
जिज्ञासु- छोटी मम्मी या बड़ी मम्मी?
बाबा- दोंनो ही साथ होकर के कार्य करती है या दोंनो के अलग होने से कार्य सम्पन्न होता है?
जिज्ञासु- साथ ।

बाबा- तो फिर? ये तो है ही प्रवृत्तिमार्ग। ऐसे नहीं अकेली लक्ष्मी से काम चल जाता है। लक्ष्मी भी चाहिए तो महालक्ष्मी भी चाहिए, नारायण भी चाहिए तो महानारायण भी चाहिए, ब्राह्मण भी चाहिए तो महाब्राह्मण भी चाहिए। ये ज्ञान ही प्रवृत्तिमार्ग का है।

Disc.CD No.541, dated 24.03.08 at Calcutta, Part-2
Extracts-Part-2


Time: 26.25
Student: Baba nine characteristics of Brahmins have been shown: Ved, vidya (knowledge), vinay (humbleness), pratishtha (respect), chitra darshan (glancing picures), nishtha (faith), tap (meditation), jap (chanting), gyaan (wisdom). What does it mean?

Baba: Look, why are nine categories of Brahmins famous? Nine categories are famous; it means that the nine kinds of Brahmins are the ones who convert into nine kinds of religions. So, the special virtues or bad traits of those nine religions are especially incorporated in those Brahmins. This is why, nine categories of Brahmins are famous. Those nine special characteristics should certainly be incorporated in them; otherwise, why have the nine categories been separated? There are nine religions and there are nine categories of Brahmins connected with the nine religions which are becoming ready now in the Confluence Age. Among those nine categories, one is such that its head is valueless. It does not have any value. As for the rest the remaining eight are such, they have value. They are counted as gems. Just as there are nine gems; among them the most valuable gem is diamond and the non-valuable gem is Pukhraj (topaz). Pukhraj does not have any value. Similarly, he is talking about nine virtues.

Time: 29.28
Student: Baba, will the seven oceans exist after destruction in the Golden Age or not?

Baba: Will there be the seven continents in the Golden Age or not?
Student: No.
Baba: When there will not be the seven continents, there will not be the seven oceans either. There will be only one ocean there. Rest of the continents will merge into the ocean. So, will there be only one ocean or will there be seven oceans? When the seven Narayans themselves merged their selfishness (khudi) in God (Khuda), how will the seven oceans exist? Now they are clashing anyway and they will clash. They are raising numerous questions. They have not become manmanaabhav (merging one’s thoughts in God’s thoughts) but a time will also come when the entire world will become manmanabhav. There will not be any question. So, will the seven oceans be called separate or will there be only one ocean? There will be only one ocean.

Time: 30.43
Student: Baba, in China, the Tibetans who are doing a revolution, who are fighting, what is it in the unlimited sense?

Baba: Who?
Student: In China. The fight that is going on the issue of Tibet.
Baba: Every religion is divided into two sections. To which religious land does China belong? It is a Buddhist religious land. But whether it is a Buddhist religious land or any religious land of the world, does it become influenced by atheism by the end of Iron Age or not?
Student: It is influenced.
Baba: So, it was called Heenyaan. They are going towards inferiority (heenata). Those who are going towards inferiority will spread their lowly feelings only and one is Mahayaan who accept God in the form of Buddha. They (i.e. Heenyaan) are the ones who break the idols, and they (i.e. Mahayaan) are the ones who construct the idols or make idols. This is why Tibet is under the influence of which religion to a greater extent? Those who believe the corporeal Mahatma Buddha. This is why there will certainly be a dispute.

Time: 32.23
Student: Baba, what is the power of silence and how to accumulate the power of silence?

Baba: Concentration itself is the power of silence. And only that person who has the true introduction of the soul and the Supreme Soul can concentrate. The more deeply someone remembers (Baba) on the basis of of the introduction, he will get power to that extent. This is subtle power. Those scientists have the power of atom. Their atom is physical. They break the physical atom and make it subtle. For example, some medicine. The more the medicine is rubbed, the more powerful it becomes. Similarly, this soul has to be rubbed on the grinding stone of remembrance. The subtler we make our soul conscious stage the power of our concentration will go on increasing to that extent. Now the power is very less.
Student: But Baba should we remain in the soul conscious stage throughout the day or at Amrit Vela?
Baba: Whichever task is done nicely at the stage of foundation, will give good results till the end. For example, when a building is constructed, the deeper and stronger the foundation of the building is made, the more long-lasting and multi-storey building can be constructed. If the foundation is weak, the building will also remain weak. Similarly, those who enter the path of knowledge, the time when they enter the path of knowledge, the more firm they make the practice of soul consciousness their foundation becomes strong and those who laid a weak foundation will reach a weak destination as per their thoughts in the end. What did you ask?
Student: We can remain in the soul conscious stage throughout the day as well, can’t we?
Baba: You have been told, haven’t you, that Amrit Vela is the beginning. Amrit Vela means the Sun has risen. What is meant by Amrit Vela? The time of sunrise and when a soul enters the path of knowledge, the Sun rises for it at that very time. It is morning when the sun rises, it is morning whenever you open your eyes. So, here, whenever someone’s eye of knowledge opens, it is Amrit Vela for him. In that period of Amrit Vela, of foundation, the more someone makes the practice of soul conscious stage firm, the more he will spend a good time in the end. He will be revealed in the world as a powerful soul and the one who remained careless at the time of entering the path of knowledge itself, if he partly pays attention and partly does not pay attention, his foundation becomes weak. That is an Amrit Vela in an unlimited sense and this Amrit Vela between 2 to 4-5 in the morning is an Amrit Vela in a limited sense. There is a specialty of this Amrit Vela also. You can practice and check. Drink tea nicely 2-3 or 3-4 times and sit. If you drink tea you will develop alertness but that is for a temporary period. But you will know about the practice. You should not sleep throughout the Amrit Vela and observe how fine your stage remains throughout the day. Then you should not develop that habit of drinking tea otherwise it will ruin everything.

Time: 36.45-37.43
Student: Baba, Adidev-Adidevi (the first male deity and the first female deity), Adinath-Adinathini, Adam-Eve. Adidev is Prajapita. Who is Adidevi? Who is Adinathini, Adidevi?

Baba: The one who starts the new world is Adidevi. The one who starts the new world....
Student: Is it the junior mother or the senior mother?
Baba: Do both of them work together or is the task accomplished when both are separated?
Student: When they are together.
Baba: So, then? This is indeed a path of household. It is not that the task is accomplished by Lakshmi alone. Lakshmi as well as Mahalakshmi is required; Narayan as well as Mahanarayan is required; Brahmin as well as Mahabrahmin is required. This knowledge itself is of the household path. ..(concluded)

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 28 Oct 2011

वार्तालाप-542, रिसरा (हुगली-1), दिनांक 25.03.08
उद्धरण-भाग-1


समयः 21.57-30.10
जिज्ञासुः हमको मुक्ति चाहिए। मुक्ति नहीं मिलता है हमको।

बाबाः मुक्ति का मतलब क्या है?
जिज्ञासु- मुक्ति हमारी... (बातचीत)....इससे थोड़ा मुक्ति चाहिए। हमको कुछ नहीं चाहिए।
बाबा- शरीर छूट जाती है तो मुक्ति हो जायेगी?...
जिज्ञासु- मुक्ति मतलब कम से कम….
बाबा- मुक्ति मतलब ये जो फैलावा फैला हुआ है, धंधा-धोरी फैला हुआ है इससे हमको मुक्ति मिल जाए। लेकिन जब शरीर छूट जायेगा तो मुक्ति हो जायेगी क्या?
जिज्ञासु- वो तो उनका बात है।
बाबा- नहीं-2 वो भी इन्क्लूड है।
जिज्ञासु- हाँ, इन्क्लूड है लेकिन हमको इतना सोचना है कि हम किसी का चीज के बस में नहीं होना चाहिए।
बाबा- ये इसलिए ऐसा बोल रहे हैं कि आप ये नहीं समझ रहे हैं कि हम हैं क्या ? आप जो हैं वो ये शरीर नहीं हैं। ये पाँच तत्वों का पुतला तो आज है कल नहीं रहेगा। लेकिन आप एक आत्मा हैं। इसकी रोशनी आँखों से निकल रही है। इन आँखों से निकलती हुई रोशनी ही बता रही है कि आप कोई और चीज हैं। वो रोशनी जब निकल जाती है तो ये सब रहेगा लेकिन आप नहीं रहेंगे।
जिज्ञासु- ये तो पंचभूत में मिल जायेंगे।
बाबा- ये पाँच भूत में मिल जायेगा लेकिन आपकी मुक्ति नहीं होगी।
जिज्ञासु- वो बहुत दूर का बात है।
बाबा- बहुत दूर कहाँ? आप वृद्ध हो रहे हैं।
जिज्ञासु- मुक्ति नहीं मिलेगी। जब तक उनका छुटकारा नहीं मिलेंगे तब तक हमको मुक्ति कैसे मिलेगी?
बाबा- तो ऐसे ही सबसे पहली बात समझने की है कि हम तो आत्मा हैं। ये घड़ी-2 दूसरे को बात करते समय, किसी से मिलते-जुलते समय ये पक्का याद रखने की चीज है कि हम यहाँ टीका भले न लगाएं लेकिन आत्मिक स्थिति में टिकें कि हम वो स्टा्र आत्मा हैं जो आत्मा यहाँ टिकी हुई है और हम आत्मा इस आत्मा से बात कर रहे हैं। जब हम किसी से बात करते हैं तो पेट के तरफ थोड़े ही देखकर बात करते हैं। बात करते हैं तो कहाँ नजर जाती है? दोंनो आँखों के बीच में। इसका मतलब आत्मा वहाँ विराजमान है। उस आत्मा से हम आत्मा बात करते हैं। हमारा कोई कनेक्शन इनके साथ है पूर्वजन्मों का तो ये हमारे सामने बैठे हैं, हमको देख रहे हैं, हमसे बात कर रहे हैं। सभी आत्माओं के साथ हिसाब-किताब है। किसी के साथ दुख का हिसाब-किताब आ जाता है। सभी सुख चाहते हैं, दुख कोई नहीं चाहता।
जिज्ञासु- नहीं दुख तो रहेगा। दुख नहीं होगा तो सुख का मालूम नहीं पडेगा ना।
बाबा- सुख तो चाहते हैं सब। ये कोई नहीं चाहता कि हमको सुख न मिले। सुख मिले लेकिन दुख न मिले। तो दुख से छुटकारा हो जाना, अशांति से छुटकारा हो जाना वही हमको चाहिए और ये चाहने के‍ लिए आत्म ज्ञान जरूरी है।
जिज्ञासु- मुक्त तो होता नहीं।
बाबा- होयगा-2। आत्मा का ज्ञान परमात्मा के सिवाए कौन दे सकता है?
जिज्ञासु- उनका दया होने से तो मिलेगा।
बाबा- क्या पता आपके ऊपर दया हो रही हो, आप टाइम निकालें। और संगी-साथी तीन-2 इकट्ठे हो गये। एक ही ऐसे। वो भी उसी लाईन में।
जिज्ञासु- हमको मुक्ति चाहिए और कुछ नहीं चाहिए। ये जो संसार है माया।
बाबा- मुक्ति से भी और एक ऊँची चीज है जीवनमुक्ति। जीवन रहे-2 जीवन में रहते-2 हमको सुख मिले। दुख न मिले।
जिज्ञासु- नहीं दुख का भी कोई परवाह नहीं है।
बाबा- एटमबॉम्ब बने हुए पड़े हैं, हिंदुस्तान की ये हालत है। हिंदुस्तान दुनिया का सबसे पुराना देश है। जो चीज जितनी ज्यादा पुरानी होती है उतनी ज्यादा दुखदाई हो जाती है। ये इंडिया में जितना ज्यादा दुख है उतना ज्यादा और कोई देश में नहीं है। तो ये जो दुख है, दुख का मूल कारण ये है कि पापाचार बहुत बढ़ चुका है। और ज्यादा बढ़ रहा है। इतना बढ़ेगा, इतना बढ़ेगा, देखो इंडिया में इतने धर्म फैले हुए हैं, इतने धर्म और किसी भी देश में नहीं फैले हुए हैं और धर्मों के आधार पर जो विद्वेष फैला हुआ है, आपसी मनमुटाव, उतना और किसी भी देश में नहीं फैला हुआ है। जितनी जातियाँ भारतवर्ष में फैली हुई हैं। इतनी जातियाँ और किसी भी देश में नहीं फैली हुई हैं। और जातियों का आधार लेकर के मुनमुटाव, लड़ाई-झगड़ा किसी भी देश में नहीं है। भारतवर्ष के अंदर जितनी भाषायें फैली हुई हैं, बंगाली, पंजाबी। अभी यहाँ देखो पंजाबी कोई दिखाई पड़ता है बंगाल में? बंगाल में पंजाबी कोई नहीं दिखाई पडेगा। बहुत कम। पंजाब में बंगाली नहीं दिखाई पडता है।... यहाँ इंडिया में जितना स्टेटिज्म है, इतना और किसी भी देश में स्टेटिज्म नहीं है। मेरा राज्य, तुम्हारा राज्य, इस राज्य, का बँटवारा होना चाहिए, ऐसे होना चाहिए, माना खंड़-2 होते जा रहे हैं।
जिज्ञासु- एक ही छोटा ग्राम मे कितने प्रकार के भाषायें भी हैं। एक ही ग्राम में।
बाबा- एक ही गांव में। ये जो विद्वेष के जो तरीके हैं धर्म…. जितने धर्म भारतवर्ष में हैं इतने धर्म किसी देश में भी नहीं हैं। और देशों में एक ही धर्म पनप रहा है और यहाँ दिल्ली। दिल्लीं में देखो, दिल्ली दर्पण है पूरे देश का। उसी बराबर के हिस्से में ही किश्चियन भी हैं, बराबर के हिस्से में मुस्लिम भी हैं, बराबर के हिस्से में सिक्ख भी वहाँ देखने को मिलेंगे क्योंकि दिल्ली राजधानी है, कैपिटल है। ....सबसे ज्यादा जो धर्म का जुनून होता है वो मुसलमानों में है। धर्म के जुनून में आके पागल बन जाते हैं।

Disc.CD No.542, dated 25.03.08 at Risra (Hooghly-1)
Extracts-Part-1


Time: 21.57-30/10
Student: I want mukti (liberation). I have not been able to attain mukti.

Baba: What is meant by mukti?
Student: My mukti (There is a conversation in between)... I want mukti from this. I do not want anything [else].
Baba: When someone leaves the body, does he attain mukti?...
Student: Mukti means at least...
Baba: Mukti means, we should become free from this expanse, the expanse of business and occupation. But will you attain mukti when you leave the body?
Student: That is their (people of the path of Bhakti) issue.
Baba: No, no. That is also included.
Student: Yes, that is included but I should think that I should not be a slave to any thing.
Baba: You are saying like this because you are not able to understand: what are we? You are not this body. This effigy of five elements is present today, it will not remain tomorrow. But you are a soul whose light is radiating from the eyes. The very light radiating from your eyes is saying that you are something else. When that light goes out, then all this (body) will remain, but you will not exist.
Student: This (body) will mix in the five elements.
Baba: It will mix in the five elements, but you will not attain mukti.
Student: That is a far-off subject.
Baba: How is it a far-off subject? You are growing old.
Student: I will not attain mukti. Unless I become free from them, how will I attain mukti?
Baba: So, in this way, the first thing to understand is, I am certainly a soul. While talking to others, while meeting someone we should remember this again and again and firmly that even if we do not apply teeka (vermilion mark on the forehead) here, we should become constant in soul conscious stage: I am a star like soul which resides here and I a soul am talking to this soul. When we talk to someone, we don’t talk seeing the stomach. When we talk where do we see? We see in between both the eyes. It means that the soul resides there. We souls, talk to that soul. We have a connection of previous births with him that is why he is sitting in front of us; he is looking at us and talking to us. There is a karmic account with all the souls. With some the karmic account of sorrow emerges. Everyone wants happiness. Nobody wants sorrow.
Student: The sorrow will be present anyway. If there is no sorrow, you will not know about [the value of] happiness, will you?
Baba: Everyone wants happiness. Nobody wishes, I shouldn’t get happiness. [Everyone wishes:] I should get happiness, I should not get sorrow. So, to be free from sorrow and restlessness, this is what I want. And in order to wish for that the knowledge of the soul is necessary.
Student: We are not liberated.
Baba: He will, he will. Who other than the Supreme Soul can give the knowledge of the soul?
Student: We will certainly attain it [mukti] when He shows mercy.
Baba: Who knows that mercy is being showered upon you! Give some time… moreover, three of you friends have gathered. Only one of them is…They are also in the same line.
Student: I want mukti and nothing else. This world is an illusion.
Baba: There is something greater than even mukti, it is jeevanmukti (liberation in life). We should remain alive, while being alive we should receive happiness. We should not get sorrow.
Student: No. I don’t care about sorrow either.
Baba: Atom bombs are ready; the condition of India is like this. India is the oldest country of the world. The older something is, the more sorrow giving it becomes. In no other country of the world there is as much sorrow as in India. So, the main reason for this sorrow is that the sinful conduct (paapachar) has increased a lot. And it is ever increasing. It will increase to such an extent that… look so many religions have not been spread in any other country as in India and there is not as much animosity and mutual enmity on the basis of these religions as in India. No other country has as many castes as India. And there is not as much animosity, dispute based on those castes in any other country as in India. There are so many languages in India – Bengali, Punjabi…. Now look here, do you find any Punjabi in Bengal? No Punjabi will be visible in Bengal. Very few.... There is no Bengali in Punjab. No other country has as much statism as India. My state, your state… this state should be divided; it should happen like this; it means that they are being divided into different parts.
Student: There are also so many kinds of languages in one small village.
Baba: In just one village. The methods of animosity, religions that are here… No other country has as many religions as India has. In other countries only one religion is prospering and here in Delhi... Look, in Delhi; Delhi is the mirror of the entire country. You can find Christians as well as Muslims as well as Sikhs in the same proportion there. It is because, Delhi is the capital. ... Maximum fanaticism for religion is among Muslims. They become mad in religious fanaticism...(to be continued)

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 29 Oct 2011

वार्तालाप-542, रिसरा (हुगली-1), दिनांक 25.03.08
उद्धरण-भाग-2


समयः 33.41-01.01.50
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, हमारा अंतिम इच्छा है।

बाबाः आपकी अंतिम इच्छा?
जिज्ञासु- हमारा अंतिम इच्छा है कि हमारा जो जगह है जगतपुर में... छोटा जगह खाली पड़ा हुआ है। मैं सोचता हूँ वहाँ एक मंदिर बिठायेंगे।
बाबा- एक बात बताइये।
जिज्ञासु-...मंदिर हमको बनाने का मन में आया है ब्रह्मा, विष्णु, शंकर।
बाबा- ब्रह्मा, विष्णु, शंकर का जो मंदिर बनायेंगे, मंदिर में चैतन्य. को बिठायेंगे या जड़ मूर्तियों को ही बैठाना आपने पक्का कर लिया है? मंदिर में आप ब्रह्मा, विष्णु, शंकर की जड़ मूर्तियों को बिठायेंगे या चैतन्य, आपकी समझ में आ जायेगा तो उनको बिठायेंगे?
जिज्ञासु- जड़।...
बाबा- करेंगे। मनुष्य
जिज्ञासु-...
बाबा- 1 मिनिट-2, मनुष्य मन का उपयोग नहीं करेगा, बुद्धि का उपयोग नहीं करेगा तो क्या जानवर करेंगे? मनुष्य ये फैसला नहीं करेगा कि ब्रह्मा कौन, विष्णु कौन, शंकर कौन? कौन फैसला करेगा? आज की दुनिया के राक्षसी मनुष्य करेंगे? देवतायें तो इस दुनिया में हैं ही नहीं। मनुष्य बनता ही है मनन-चिंतन-मंथन करनेवाला, मन का उपयोग करनेवाला। तो आप तो... मन है आपके पास। मन माना इच्छा है आपकी... माना मन तो है। तो मन-बुद्धि के साथ आप फैसला खुद कर सकते हैं। सिर्फ बैठकर समझने की बात है। जब इतने लोग फैसला कर रहे हैं, सबने फैसला कर लिया कि हाँ ब्रह्मा भी है प्रैक्टिकल में, विष्णु भी है प्रैक्टिकल में, शंकर भी है प्रैक्टिकल में। अगर नहीं होते तो....तो क्या कपड़े का झंडा विश्व विजय कर के दिखायेगा? विश्व की विजय कपडे का झंडा नहीं करता है। कोई चैतन्य हुए हैं प्रैक्टिकल में जिन्होंने सारे विश्व के ऊपर विजय प्राप्त की है।
जिज्ञासु- सबसे बडा है चैतन्य। चैतन्य में न होने से कुछ भी नहीं होता है। हम सोचा है, लेकिन अभी चैतन्यं क्या करेगा, उपर वाला क्या करेगा, वो हमको मालूम नहीं है। मगर हमने मन में सोचा है।
बाबा- अगर आपको मालूम पड़ जाये तो?
जिज्ञासु- हमको मंदिर बनाने का मन में आया है। मंदिर हम बनायेंगे उसमें हमारे चैतन्य भी रहेंगे, हमारे मूर्ति भी रहेंगे। दोंनो रहेंगे। मूर्ति न रहने से हमारे चैतन्य भी नहीं आयेंगे ना।
बाबा- ये मूर्ति ही है। ये मूर्ति है। जब इसमें आत्मा है तो चैतन्य है। आत्मा निकल जायेगी तो ये मूर्ति है।
जिज्ञासु- लेकिन मूर्ति को...;;कर के
बाबा- मूर्ति को मानेंगे। मूर्ति तो जड होती है उसमें चैतन्य आत्मा को नहीं मानेंगे?
जिज्ञासु- इतने हजार मूर्ति जो बन रहा है।...
बाबा- वो बन रहा है लेकिन वो बनने के बावजूद भी... बनानेवाले बना रहे हैं; बनानेवाले बना रहे हैं किस आधार पर? जो शास्त्रों में लिखा हुआ है वही शासन कर रहा है और शास्त्रों को बनानेवाले भी मनुष्य, मनुष्य ही थे लेकिन जिन्होंने वो शास्त्रों की परम्परा और उनकी वो मूर्तियों की परम्परा चलाई है ढ़ाई हजार साल से वो हिस्ट्री मिल रही है मूर्तियाँ बनाने की, शास्त्रं बनाने की लेकिन उनके रिजल्ट में दुनिया में प्यार और स्नेह, सहानभूति ये अच्छे गुण है। ये बढ़ रहे है या घट रहे है?
जिज्ञासु- ये तो नहीं बढ़ रहे है। सहानभूति, इच्छायें, प्रेम ये घट रहा है।
बाबा- घट रहा है ना।
जिज्ञासु- मुठ्ठी बंद है लेकिन घट रहा है।
बाबा- इसका मतलब चैतन्य आत्मा को पहचानेंगे तो ये चीज़ें बढ़ेगी।
जिज्ञासु- और एक बात, घट रहा है ये बात ठीक ही है। हम जब वृंदावन मे हम जितना घूमा है, देखा है एक एक करोडपति, इतना अच्छे से मंदिर बनाया। उसका मंदिर, उसका अकोमोडिशन उसका सब कुछ देखने से भी दिल में भक्ति आता है। बहुत सा आदमी भी उधर जाता है। ये जो जाता है, उधर में आता है, इसका मतलब क्या होता है ?
बाबा- इसका मतलब ये है कि एक परम्परा, ट्रेडिशन चली आ रही है। वो ट्रेडिशन के ऊपर सब चल रहे हैं। शायद ऐसा करने से हमको मुक्ति मिल जायेगी। लेकिन अंधश्रद्धा से कभी भी मुक्ति नहीं मिलेगी। भगवान जो है वो ज्ञान देता है, अंधश्रद्धा नहीं देता है। ज्ञान अलग चीज है और अंधश्रद्धा, अंधविश्वास अलग चीज है।
जिज्ञासु- वो एक ही चीज है लेकिन एक ही आदमी को मिलता है क्यों?
बाबा- एक ही आदमी को नहीं, सारी सृष्टि की मुक्ति करनेवाला एक परमपिता परमात्मा है।
जिज्ञासु- एक ही है जो ध्यान से, ज्ञान से उसको मानता है।
बाबा- आप तो मानते हैं। आप भी तो मानते हैं।
जिज्ञासु- हाँ, वही तो बोल रहा हूँ।
बाबा- हम भी मानते थे। हमें अब अनुभव हो रहा है कि हम मिलने के रास्ते पर हैं। आप समझते हैं ये तो हवाई खीर है। ऐसा हो नहीं सकेगा। आप ऐसा समझते हैं लेकिन हो सकेगा। आज आप ऐसा करें दो दिन के बाद, दो दिन में ही, है तो 7 दिन का कोर्स, दो दिन के अंदर ही, हाँ मिल गया-3, हमने पा लिया। ये सब अनुभव कर सकते हैं, तो आप नहीं अनुभव कर सकते?
जिज्ञासु- मैं तो अनुभव कर रहा हूँ लेकिन विश्वास....
बाबा- चैतन्यं की बात है। आप जड़ मूर्ति की बात कर रहे हैं। हमने चैतन्य. की बात कही। हमारे यहाँ भारत वर्ष का जो तिरंगा झंडा है। तिरंगा झंडे में तीन कपड़े है। तीन कपड़े ये कपड़ा किस बात की यादगार है? ये शरीररूपी वस्त्र है। क्या? ये शरीर है वस्त्र और इस वस्त्र को पहननेवाली है आत्मा। क्या? ये तीन प्रकार के वस्त्र हुए हैं संसार में - ब्रह्मा, विष्णु, शंकर। ब्रह्मा जो वस्त्र है वो हरा ही हरा माना उनकी बुद्धि में बैठा है कि रामराज्य आयेगा, हरियाली आयेगी, हरी क्रान्ति आयेगी, स्वर्ग आयेगा-2 - यही बुद्धि में बैठा हुआ है। विष्णु - दूसरी मूर्ति वो स्वर्ग का देवता, निश्चय पक्का। और एक है उससे भी ऊपर - हम न नर्क में और न स्वुर्ग में - दोनों हमारे लिए एक जैसे हैं। स्व र्ग मिल जाये, सुख की दुनिया मिल जाये तो खुश नहीं और दुःख की दुनिया मिल जाये तो उन्हें दुःख नहीं। माना शांत स्टेज में रहनेवाला वो है शंकर। वो है शंकर। लेकिन जो शंकर है वो महादेव कहा जाता है। ब्रह्मा से भी ऊँचा देव, विष्णु, विष्णु से भी ऊँचा देव महादेव। लेकिन महादेव जो है वो महादेव शंकर का नाम ही सिर्फ परमात्मा के साथ जोड़ा जाता है। 33 करोड़ देवात्मायें हैं लेकिन किसी का नाम शिव के साथ जोड़ा नहीं जाता। शिव वो आत्मा है जो जन्म-मरण के चक्र में आती ही नहीं कभी। हम और आप जन्म–मरण के चक्र में आ रहे हैं। शरीर छोड़ रहे हैं, फिर शरीर ले रहे हैं फिर शरीर छोड़ रहे हैं, फिर शरीर ले रहे हैं। लेकिन वो आत्मा ऐसी है शिव - वो कभी भी जन्म-मरण के चक्र में नहीं आती। वो भी जन्म-मरण के चक्र में आ जाये तो हमको छुडानेवाला कोई नहीं।

Disc.CD No.542, dated 25.03.08 at Risra (Hooghly-1)
Extracts-Part-2


Time: 33.41-01.01.50
Student: Baba, I have a last wish.

Baba: Your last wish?
Student: It is my last wish that the place that I own in Jagatpur… there is a small vacant plot of land …I have thought of building a temple there.
Baba: Tell me one thing.
Student: …I have thought of building a temple of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar.
Baba: The temple of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar that you will build, will you keep the living [idols] (chaitanya) in it or have you made up your mind to keep the non-living idols in it? Will you keep the non-living idols of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar in the temple or will you keep the living [idols] when [their recognition] sits in your intellect?
Student: The non-living ones…
Baba: You will. Human beings…
Student said something.
Baba: Just a minute. Just a minute. If not the human beings, will the animals use their mind and intellect? If a human being does not decide who Brahma is, who Vishnu is and who Shankar is then who else will decide? Who will decide? Will the demoniac human beings of today’s world decide it? Deities are not present in this world at all. Only the one who thinks and churns , the one who uses his mind, becomes a human being. So, you… you have a mind. Mind meaning you have a desire means that you do have a mind. So, you can decide yourself with the help of mind and intellect. You just have to sit and understand it. When so many people are deciding, when everyone has decided that yes, there is Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar in practical; if they are not present….so, will a flag made of cloth gain victory over the world? A flag made of cloth does not gain victory over the world. There have been some living ones in practical who have gained victory over the entire world.
Student: The greatest ones are the living ones. If they weren’t the living ones nothing is possible. I have thought about it, but what will the living one, the one [sitting] above do, now I do not know it. But I have thought in the mind.
Baba: If you come to know, then…
Student: The thought to build a temple has come in my mind. I will build a temple and our living ones as well as our idols will be there. Both will be there. If there are no idols, the living ones will not come either, will they?
Baba: This (body) itself is an idol. This is an idol. When there is a soul in it, it is a living being. When the soul departs, it is an idol.
Student: But the idol….
Baba: You believe in the idol. An idol is non-living. Will you not believe in the living soul in it?
Student: So many thousands of idols that are being prepared…
Baba: They are being prepared, but despite being prepared…, the makers are making them; the makers are making them, on what basis? Whatever was written in the scriptures is ruling. And the writers of the scriptures were also human beings themselves. But those who followed that tradition of scriptures and the tradition of idols for 2500 years, that history of preparing idols and scriptures is available . But as the result of that, are good virtues like love and affection, sympathy increasing in the world or are they decreasing?
Student: These are certainly not increasing. Sympathy, desire, love is decreasing.
Baba: It is decreasing, isn’t it?
Student: The palm is closed, but it is decreasing.
Baba: It means that these things will increase when you recognize the living ones.
Student: Another thing; these virtues are decreasing. It is correct. When I went to Brindavan , wherever I roamed I saw that millionaires have built such good temples. Their temples, the accommodation, everything, [the feeling of] devotion comes in the heart on seeing them. Many people go there, what does it mean?
Baba: It means that a tradition has continued. Everyone is following that tradition. [They think] that perhaps by doing so they will be liberated. But we can never attain liberation through blind faith. God gives knowledge and not blind faith. Knowledge is something different and blind belief, blind faith is something different .
Student: That is the same thing. But why does only one person get it?
Baba: It is not attained by only one person. The one who liberates the entire world is the one Supreme Father Supreme Soul.
Student: There is only one person who accepts Him through meditation, through knowledge.
Baba: You accept it. You too accept it, don’t you?
Student: Yes, that is what I am saying.
Baba: We believed it too. We are now feeling that we are on the path of meeting (God). You think it is porridge in the air. It cannot be possible. You feel so; but it is possible. Do one thing; after two days; in just two days; it is a seven days course, but within two days… when all these people can experience that ‘we got it, we got it, we have achieved it’, so, can’t you experience it?
Student: I am experiencing, but faith…...
Baba: It is about the living ones. You are speaking about the non-living idols. I spoke about the living ones. The tricolor flag of India has three cloths (in three colours). These three cloths, this cloth is a memorial of what? These are cloth like bodies. What? This body is a cloth and the one who wears this cloth is the soul. What? There have been these three kinds of cloths in the world – Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. The cloth Brahma is completely green, i.e. his intellect thinks that the kingdom of Ram will come, greenery will come, green revolution will come, and heaven will come. This is in his intellect. The second personality Vishnu is the deity of heaven; he has a firm faith. And one is higher than him; I am neither in hell nor am I in heaven, for me both hell and heaven are one and the same. He does not become happy if he gets heaven or a world of happiness and he does not become sorrowful if he gets a world of sorrow. It means that the one who remains in a calm stage is Shankar. He is Shankar. But Shankar is called Mahadev (the greatest deity). A deity higher than Brahma is Vishnu and higher than Vishnu is Mahadev. But only the name of that Mahadev Shankar is added to the Supreme Soul (Shiv). There are 330 million (33 crore) deity souls, but nobody’s name is added with that of Shiv. Shiv is such a soul who never comes in the cycle of birth and death. I and you pass through the cycle of birth and death. We leave bodies and we take bodies; again we leave bodies and again we take up bodies. But that soul, Shiv is such that He never passes through the cycle of birth and death. If He too passes through the cycle of birth and death then there will be no one to liberate us.

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