Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Mar 2007

shivsena wrote:Can any PBK please throw some light on these ambiguities between answers given by Baba and the Murli points and the conventional teachings of Advanced Knowledge?
shivsena,

I follow your post because of their acuity and close references to the original Murlis.

But can I ask you an honest question?
  • What is your position or what are you attempting to prove or express?
I mean this honestly.

May people have "disproven" the teachings to their own mind and just left. Admitted that it does not add up and so therefore cannot be God. Some want to "disprove" the BKWSU on the basis of the teachings. Others want to "disprove" the PBKs on the basis of the teachings. Many others, I suspect, admit to themselves that the teachings do not and cannot up add but don't care. They are happy to be swept along by the inertia of BK life without questioning, because questioning is difficult, painful and costly, e.g. Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs have paid such a serious price for questioning further than the BKIVV SS want BKs to question. And life has no better or alternative options, especially after BKWSU re-programming.

So where do you fit in? You appear to be an independent voice. How or where do feel that you relate to the other parties and where do you want to take this study?

Thank you in advance for an honest answer. I am prefectly happy to answer those same questions from my own position.

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Post by shivsena » 05 Mar 2007

Aimée wrote:It seems difficult to answer to your questions, because what we will find in the clarification is personal, according to the shooting we are creating for ourself.
If the answers to the queries are not the truth and they are personal (as you say), then why are they being made public in the first place? Let them stay with the soul who has asked and they should neither be recorded or circulated in PBKs, as they give a very wrong message to those PBKs who are churning the knowledge and reading the Murlis deeply and trying to co-relate the facts. In fact, it is these question and answer sessions (ever since they are started) that have started creating ambiguity in Godly knowledge and confusion amongst the PBKs and many of them have really started wondering, as to whose part is this?? Is it ShivBap or is it Krishna who is answering the queries? And many of them, like me, are now fully convinced that it is Krishna who is playing this dual game. (Like Krishna did in Mahabharat epic, played politics between the Kauravs and Pandavs)
aimee wrote:This knowledge is so deep, that we cannot reach the end of it ...
If we cannot reach the end of it, then why have the BKs and PBKs embarked on a journey which has no end? And if this is a wild goose chase, then who has started it in the first place; was it not ShivBap?? But would He start something, which has no end??? At least i do not think so.

i would very much like an answer to this.

shivsena.

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Post by shivsena » 06 Mar 2007

arjun wrote:And Brahma (Dada Lekhraj, i.e. the soul of Krishna) also enters into the body of Shankar. When the sanskars of the soul of Ram and Krishna become one and the same, then it becomes a form of Ardhanaareeshwar (A Bhaktimarg memorial in which Shankar and Parvati are depicted as the right and left half of the same body) The motherly love is also being showered through the same personality. That is why it is not wrong for the PBKs to write ShivBaba, c/o Brahma while sending letters to ShivBaba.
Dear arjun Bhai.
Since you have brought up the topic of "Ardha-nari-ishwar", does it mean that nari (female) is Krishna (Maa-roop) and Ram is Ishwar (Baap-roop) ; also, does it mean that the sanskars of Ram and Krishna are not matching at present during the shooting period and so there is friction in the Advance Party, as the mother and Father are still not united; and can you tell us, when in the near future their sanskars will match and the form of "ardh-nari-ishwar" will be revealed to the world.

shivsena.

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Post by aimée » 06 Mar 2007

Sorry, going in a minute to Bharat to meet my Baba, cannot wait! Will answer in three weeks time. Om Shanti

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Post by arjun » 06 Mar 2007

Sister Aimee,

Om Shanti and wish you a happy journey.
I hope you would be able to discuss with Baba many of the questions raised by Shivsena Bhai and others, which remain unanswered so far.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by shivsena » 06 Mar 2007

ex-l wrote: I follow your post because of their acuity and close references to the original Murlis.
Thanks.
ex-l wrote: But can I ask you an honest question?
  • What is your position or what are you attempting to prove or express?
I mean this honestly.
Dear ex-l.
Honestly, i do not know my position; what i want to prove is that, the whole Godly knowledge was recited by ShivBap through brahma in a poetic jumbled way from 1947 to 1969 and the only recordings of the Murlis we have are from june 1965 to jan 1969; and it is these Murlis which contain the whole knowledge in a coded form. Then came Ram's soul in nov1969 and he started reading the Murlis deeply and about the year 1973, he realised that He has to attain the 100% nirakari stage like ShivBap (and attain the status of ShivBaba) and so he started having continous Yoga and he gave this body to Krishna to do as he pleases.

From 1973, it is Krishna's soul who has been telling the BKs that prajapita is still in this corporeal world because he was title-dhari prajapita in the beginning and in the end he has to become actual prajapita (but the souls who listened to Krishna did not realise this and they thought that it is Virendra Dev Dixit who is speaking and hence the confusion set in from then and the so-called PBKs started the mistake of making Krishna the God of Gita and forgot Ramshivbaba who remained in the background).

At present in Advance Party, whatever knowledge is being given is the churning of Krishna and not of ShivBap or Ramshivbaba (and hence the ambiguities). Only in the end of shooting period, when the nirakar ShivBap and the 100% nirakari Rambap combine together, then only will the true Gita come forth from the present Chariot (which then will belong 100% to Krishna) and the auspicious Confluence Age will start in right earnest, and then the true PBKs will be born from the mouth of prajapita brahma (Krishna who will then be in total control of Ramshivbaba and will stop going to mt abu). This is in short what i want to prove and what i am researching for last 5 years and i have ample evidence from the Murlis to support my theory.
ex-l wrote:So where do you fit in? You appear to be an independent voice. How or where do feel that you relate to the other parties and where do you want to take this study?
I am still very much a pbk (though on paper only- not in real life) and you are right about this, that i am an independent voice and i do not believe in making parties and seperating out. My aim is to interact with open-minded PBKs so that i can share my views with them and if i have given them some food for thought, then my purpose has been achieved.

There are many PBKs in Mumbai and all over India with whom i have discussed my point of view and many do not agree and few of them who do, do not have the courage to admit my theory openly and as defiantly as i am inclined. But i will continue to do more research on Murli points and i will produce more evidence from time to time to prove the ambiguity in advance knowledge (jhooti Krishna ki Gita of shooting period which is establishing jhoot khand).

OK, more later.

Thanks for asking me my honest opinion. I have been as honest as anyone can be.
shivsena

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Post by andrey » 08 Mar 2007

It is said in the Murlis through Dada Lekraj that Prajapita should be in corporeal and cannot be in the Subtle Region. Prajapita means Father and the soul of Krishna will be child in the Goden Age, so can he be Prajapita?

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Post by shivsena » 08 Mar 2007

Andrey wrote:It is said in the Murlis through Dada Lekraj that Prajapita should be in corporeal and cannot be in the Subtle Region. Prajapita means Father and the soul of Krishna will be child in the Goden Age, so can he be Prajapita?
Dear andrey Bhai.

That is exactly what i am trying to say, when Krishna becomes 100% corporeal through this body of Virendra Dev Dixit, then he will cease to have a subtle body, and will stop going to mt abu to deliver avaykt Vanis, and then he(Krishna) will become prajapita brahma and Ram's soul will become 100% incorporeal and become living ShivBaba through the present body. It has been said in Murlis: "avaykt brahma so vyakt brahma and vyakt so avaykt''; also it has been said in Murlis: ''Uparwala so neechewala and neechewala so uparwala" meaning that both the subtle brahma and corporeal prajapita brahma are same soul, except that the stage is different; when he is in the Subtle Regions then he is avaykt brahma and when he becomes 100% corporeal then he becomes prajapita brahma.

According to Murlis, the topic of brahma is very difficult to understand and 9,16,000 souls will never understand; only 108 souls, who are researching on the Murlis and Vanis, will understand who is Prajapita brahma.

shivsena.

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Post by andrey » 08 Mar 2007

Shivsena wrote:From 1973, it is Krishna's soul who has been telling the BKs that Prajapita is still in this corporeal
But it is said by Shiv through Brahma Baba that Prajapita is corporeal.
title-dhari Prajapita in the beginning and in the end he has to become actual Prajapita
Title dhari means that he had only the title – he was not the actual prajapita. At the end the actual Prajapita will again be the actual Prajapita like in the beginning the actual Prjapita gave birth of knowledge, by sowing seeds of knowledge in the womb like intellect of Brahma Baba. Later when he departs, Brahma Baba takes his title, like the son can take the title of his Father. From one Prajapita the expansion takes place. He is the seed. Krishna is the first leaf, he is expansion himself. Prajapita is the one who gives birth and no one gives birth to him and Krishna is the one who takes birth. Prajapita means Father. He is Father to the soul of Krishna. The soul of Krishna cannot be Prajapita
when Krishna becomes 100% corporeal
Why should he become corporeal? He used to be corporeal. All souls have to become incorporeal.
Uparwala so neechewala and neechewala so uparwala
Brahma is not uparwala. Upar is not the Subtle Region. Upar is Paramdham. Uparwala is Paramdhamwasi Shiva who becomes corporeal. Neechevala is the corporeal who becomes incorporeal.
According to Murlis, the topic of Brahma is very difficult to understand and 9,16,000 souls will never understand; only 108 souls, who are researching on the Murlis and Vanis, will understand who is Prajapita Brahma.
The topic of Brahma used to be diffucult to understand in the past because Brahma used to be in male form and used to have the title prajapita, whilst he used to be the mother, and at that time the actual Prjapita was not visible. Now it is easy to understand. Brahma is a mother in a female form and Prajapita is a Father. Brahma is different and Prajapita Brahma is different. Baba always give highest aim. Why do you always say 108. Say 8.

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Post by shivsena » 10 Mar 2007

Andrey wrote: The topic of Brahma used to be diffucult to understand in the past because Brahma used to be in male form and used to have the title Prajapita, whilst he used to be the mother, and at that time the actual Prjapita was not visible. Now it is easy to understand. Brahma is a mother in a female form and Prajapita is a Father. Brahma is different and Prajapita Brahma is different.
Dear andrey Bhai.
Can you please clarify who is this brahma in the female form in the Advance Party?

Also advance knowledge teaches that brahma and prajapita are different; but i have not read this in any Murli of ShivBap; i have many Murlis which state that ''brahma is prajapita'' and "prajapita ek brahma hi hai". So once again Murli and advance knowledge contra-dict each other.

shivsena.

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Post by bansy » 10 Mar 2007

Sorry, going in a minute to Bharat to meet my Baba, cannot wait! Will answer in three weeks time. Om Shanti
Dear Sister Aimee,
Hope you come back with your wishes filled, and share your experiences here too.
Regards
Bansy

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Post by andrey » 11 Mar 2007

Dear brother,
avaykt Brahma so vyakt Brahma and vyakt so avaykt
Even children become Avyakt without leaving the body. All Brahmas become Avyakt too. It is a stage of thinking. Avyakt Brahma is Avyakt brahma when entering in corporeal body. Subtle Region is nothing. In the Murli it is also never directly said there are many brahmas, but it is said that if this body goes away whichever body I enter should be named Brahma. In the Murlis it is said that Brahma Baba is Jagadamba.

The Murli is played by the mouth. Through research of paper Murli and own thinking one can discover deep points, but cannot hear new points. There are always new points in the Vani of Bap. There is also a conception of what truth means, that is straightforward. OK, if God is God cannot He come and say, "Ohohoho I’m god, listen to me, obey, do this, do that ... ", it is said that truth can be proven only with manners. I am glad to the manners he has, the way he advises me is really like a good advice. I feel no force over my will, I just see there is benefit for me in it. And we can ask advice for every step to attain salvation. With your concept how do you interpret "kadam kadam par Shrimat lena he" (take Shrimat at every step).

For me there is no ambiguity, because I accept that whatever is spoken now is this what should be listened to. It is said follow Brahma, but listen to me. Who is this me? You say me is the soul of Father Shiv that played a Murli through the body of the soul of Krishna, you say these words are words of God, I say Father Shiva speaks like God through the Father Ram.

There is ambiguity in the Murli (through Brahma Baba) itself, because of the loose nature of Brahma baba. In the Murli of ShivBap (through Brahma Baba) there used to be said, "no marriage ... no building of houses" etc. Then some came to complain that they have troubles for marriage or with living and due to his softness he used to say, "OK, marry but remain pure", or "build a house but leave one room for the BK". There is ambiguity for instance of what should we remember because to Brahma Baba himself was not clear? How many things we should remember? The home, heaven, Me in corporeal body, me in Soul World – see there are points as proofs. Remember me here, remember me there. That's why we don't listen to it.

Will you be able to build a logical, strong position if in your logic you use points from the advance knowledge. It is like cutting the branch on which you sit.

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Post by shivsena » 11 Mar 2007

Dear andrey Bhai.

Please answer to the point;
I had asked you about the female form of brahma, but in your reply, there is no mention of who is that female form; you are just diverting from the main topic and talking of issues which are irrelevant; please be brief and to the point, so that everyone can understand.

shivsena.

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Post by shivsena » 11 Mar 2007

Dear ex-l.

I have given you my honest aim as requested; I am now waiting for your honest feedback.

shivsena.

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Post by arjun » 12 Mar 2007

Shivsena wrote:Since you have brought up the topic of "Ardha-nari-ishwar", does it mean that nari (female) is Krishna (Maa-roop) and Ram is Ishwar (Baap-roop) ; also, does it mean that the sanskars of Ram and Krishna are not matching at present during the shooting period and so there is friction in the Advance Party, as the mother and Father are still not united; and can you tell us, when in the near future their sanskars will match and the form of "ardh-nari-ishwar" will be revealed to the world.
The answer to your querry is contained in the clarification Murli contained in the VCD-581. I quote:
"The knowledge is contained in our intellect that – who should we follow? Hm? (Someone said – Brahma Baba) Amma-Baba. We have to follow Father Brahma. Not the single Brahma. If you remember Father Brahma in the intellect, then you would also remember that - Prajapita is also Brahma ... Who is the first Brahma? Shiv is the Father. When He enters, He says – whichever body I enter, what should it be named as? (It should be named) as Brahma. So in whomsoever He enters to lay the seed is also Brahma. That is why how many Brahmas are famous? Five are famous. Among them one is Prajapita and rest of the Brahmas are numberwise. So whom should we follow? We have to follow Prajapita Brahma. That is why the Suryavanshi children always consider themselves to be in a path of household (pravrittimarg). The picture of Ardhanaareeshwar is always in front of them. They view BapDada in a combined form. It remains in the intellect that – the soul of Brahma, which plays a part of tolerance and the Father, who plays the part of power to face situations – both play a part in combined form, which is called ‘Ardhanaareeshwar’."

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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