Humour in PBK classes/discussions

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 15 Mar 2007

Discussion CD No.219 dated 17.12.06 at Mumbai mini-Madhubans

Kisi nay kaha - Baba ka yaadgaar hai ki voh Gop-Gopiyon kay saath raas kartaa hai, dance kartaa hai, toh Baba 5000 saal kay baad aakar sirf gyaan ka hee dance karega ya fir practical may kabhi dance karengey?
Baba nay uttar diya - Voh practical dance tum kar lena.

Usee Bhai nay fir kaha - 5000 saal kay baad aatey hain toh sirf gyaan ka hee dance karengey kya?
Baba nay uttar diya - Satyug Treta may toh dance kartey hee hain sthool roop may. Vahaan toh koi baat hee nahee. Aur Dwapar Kaliyug may bhi jadatwamayi buddhi hoti hai ya Bhagwaan aakey chaitanya buddhi banaatey hain? Jadatwamayi buddhi hoti hai. Kaliyug may bhi aur jaamdi buddhi ho jaati hai. Toh jinki jaamdi buddhi hai voh jad dance karengey. Aur jab Bhagwaan aakarkey chaitanya buddhi banaata hai toh kaunsa dance man may chalnaa chaahiye? Hm? Yah andar kee baat hai.

Someone said - Baba's memorial is that He performs Raas with the Gop-Gopis, dances with them; so , when Baba comes after 5000 years, will He perform only the dance of knowledge or will he ever dance practically?
Baba replied
- You perform that practical dance

The same brother asked - When He comes after 5000 years, then will He perform only the dance of knowledge?
Baba replied
- In the Golden and Silver Ages, the dance is performed in a gross form only. It is not a matter of that period at all. And even in the Copper and Iron Ages, is the intellect inert or does God come and transform it into a living intellect? The intellect remains inert. In the Iron Age also it becomes even more intert. So, those, whose intellect is inert, would perform physical dance and when God comes and transforms the intellect into a living intellect, then which dance should be performed in the mind? Hm? This is a matter of the mind.

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Note:- The Hindi and English versions of the extracts of above mentioned Discussion CD are just draft versions.

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Post by shivsena » 16 Mar 2007

Dear john Bhai.

Just read a Murli dated 23-2-2000 and it says, "tumare mukh se sadaa shudh vachan nikalne chahiye; kuvachan nahin; hansi-majaak bhi nahin; woh bhi nuksankarak ho jaati hai; hansi bhi aisi karni chihiye jisme vikaro ki boo na ho; bahut khabardar rehana hai." (meaning that ' from your mouth always pure words should be spoken; not impure words; not even laughter and jokes; that also can lead to loss; you should laugh in such a manner that it does not smell of vices; one has to be very careful.)

From the above point it is very clear that laughter is not to be encouraged while studying RajYoga; and in all the advance classes after 2000, i have observed that the conversation after the Murli class, has more often given rise to bouts of laughter which has involved the whole class including Baba. (this clearly means that the advance classes are subtle Bhakti-marg classes conducted by Krishna's soul during the shooting period and not conducted by ShivBaba; as ShivBaba is supreme teacher and would never resort to any indiscipline in his class whatsoever.)

shivsena.

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Post by arjun » 16 Mar 2007

Shivsena wrote:Just read a Murli dated 23-2-2000 and it says, "tumare mukh se sadaa shudh vachan nikalne chahiye; kuvachan nahin; hansi-majaak bhi nahin; woh bhi nuksankarak ho jaati hai; hansi bhi aisi karni chihiye jisme vikaro ki boo na ho; bahut khabardar rehana hai.

(meaning that ' from your mouth always pure words should be spoken; not impure words; not even laughter and jokes; that also can lead to loss; you should laugh in such a manner that it does not smell of vices; one has to be very careful.)"
Dear brother,

Om Shanti. In the Sakar Murli which you have quoted above, Baba has prohibited such laughter and jokes which are harmful or which smell of vices, but harmless humour has nowhere been prohibited. In fact, there are some Sakar Murlis where Baba has said that just as ShivBaba has entertained children in the beginning of the Yagya, He would entertain in the end also. How can there be entertainment if it only dry and serious knowledge?

This talk of knowledge without any pleasure is just like the knowledge given by Uddhava to the Gopis of Krishna. But they were not at all amused by all that serious talk about knowledge. They longed only for the sweet flute and entertaining company of Krishna.
and in all the advance classes after 2000, I have observed that the conversation after the Murli class, has more often given rise to bouts of laughter which has involved the whole class including Baba. (this clearly means that the advance classes are subtle Bhakti-marg classes conducted by Krishna's soul during the shooting period and not conducted by ShivBaba; as ShivBaba is supreme teacher and would never resort to any indiscipline in his class whatsoever.)
I don't agree with your statement. Most of the clarification Murli classes involve serious narration of knowledge. It is only during the discussion classes that the mood becomes lighter. And in most of the discussion classes where the number of PBKs is less, the discussion is generally serious and it is only at a few places (where there are large number of PBKs sitting in the gathering) that PBKs ask some unnecessary questions only to cause laughter. And Baba is always vigilant to such people and warns them in between not to indulge in wasteful talk or discussion. I can give you the example of Bombay mini-Madhubans where, at the end of a discussion class on 7.1.07, Baba cautioned the PBKs against such wasteful questions/discussion.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by john » 16 Mar 2007

(meaning that ' from your mouth always pure words should be spoken; not impure words; not even laughter and jokes; that also can lead to loss; you should laugh in such a manner that it does not smell of vices; one has to be very careful.)
Yes, i agree, but this in no way affects anything I've said before and I stand by it all.

Laughter should not be in a way that it is tinged with vices, that could be arrogance. It does not however say laughter is prohibited or viceful. After all, what is ShivBaba creating? A world of robots or a world of Dieties?

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Post by pbktrinityshiva » 17 Mar 2007

Although there may be laughter, Baba is detached and quick to move on after the laughter is had.

Its natural that one would feel happy and some would laugh hearing the knowledge of Father. Due to the way in which ShivBaba allows you to see things from that new perspective by bringing two seemingly unrelated things into one.

ShivBaba is responsible for everything that comes through his Chariot. There is no loss so long as we stick with him. :)

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Post by surya » 17 Mar 2007

...laughter is not to be encouraged while studying RajYoga; and in all the advance classes after 2000...
Dear Brothers

Do you know that when I met Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit) for the second time I made many jokes with him and there was one special moment, that I never forget, when I said to Baba that he looked like a businessman from London because he was using mobile phone, blue tooth ... Baba laughed in a very spontaneous way and that moment keeps coming back to me as passage in time that is highly precious to me.

Just to share this with you all for today ...

Surya

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Post by pbktrinityshiva » 17 Mar 2007

Brother,

Thank you for sharing :) I had also thought this myself when I saw Baba with all the mobiles etc & had a chuckle that God himself uses a mobile/s. There is no better sense of humour than the highest one himself. Even before i came into Gyan at all ... the thing i liked most about the God was that he must have a supreme sense of humour and benevolence to all his children.

Om Shanti
TS

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Post by shivsena » 17 Mar 2007

arjun wrote:This talk of knowledge without any pleasure is just like the knowledge given by Uddhava to the Gopis of Krishna. But they were not at all amused by all that serious talk about knowledge. They longed only for the sweet flute and entertaining company of Krishna.
Dear arjun Bhai.

The Bhakti anecdote, regarding the gopis attracted to Krishna, is totally misdirected and inappropriate.

The Gopis, who were attracted to Krishna, are the 108 souls of vijaymala, who are just not interested in listening to advance knowledge and they are happy to stay in the comfort of BK palaces. They will come only when their leader queen bee (Sangamyugi Radha) will see Sangamyugi Krishna in the present body of Virendra Dev Dixit. And that is why they get the title of Ranis (queens).

The 108 Rudramala souls are the Gopes, who are very much interested only in the deeper aspects of Godly knowledge and that is what attracted them to advance knowledge in the first place. They will never be attracted to Krishna's musings and humour in advance knowledge discussions which are going on in the Advance Party at present; that is why it has been said in Murlis that "ShivBaba ko Gyani-tu atma visesh pasand hai".

shivsena.

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Post by arjun » 18 Mar 2007

Shivsena wrote:I have accepted the presence of ShivBap in Brahma(no further arguments on that); but I still have no proof that humour existed while the Murli points were being recited by ShivBap through Brahma; moreover, if at all, any humour existed at that time, then according to Advanced Knowledge that was the role of mother (through Brahma) and not the role of Bap-teacher-Satguru.
Brother,

You wanted a proof whether humour existed during the times of Brahma Baba or not. And here is the proof:

"Baba kahtey hain tumney mujhey kya samjha, jo kahtey ho - hey Patit-Paavan aakar paavan banao, kya mera yahee dhandha hai! Baap bachhon say hansikudi kartey hain. Tum bulaatey ho Baba ham patit ho gaye hain, aakar paavan banaao. Baba paraaye desh may aatey hain. Yah patit duniya hai na! Mujhey inmay pravesh hokar paavan banaana hai. Yah toh fir aakar paavan sharir lengey. Meri takdeer may toh yah bhi nahee hai. Mujhey patit sharir may hee aana padtaa hai. Yah knowledge sunkar bahuton ko khushi bahut hoti hai."

"Baba says - What do you think of me to say that - O purifier of the sinful ones, come and make us pure. Is this my only occupation! Father cracks jokes with the children. You call - Baba, we have become sinful. Come and make us pure. Baba comes in an alien country. This is a sinful world, is not it? I have to enter into him and make him pure. He would come again and assume a pure body. I am not lucky enough to this extent also. I have to enter into a sinful body only. Many people feel very joyful after listening to this knowledge." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 26.12.06, pg.4 published by BKs in Hindi and narrated by Father Shiv through Brahma Baba and translated by a PBK).

I know you would say that since Brahma's role was a role of mother and hence humour could have taken place through that role. But now it is proved that humour did exist during that period.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by arjun » 21 Mar 2007

Om Shanti. The discussion about humour in ShivBaba's classes seems to have touched Avyakt BapDada also and in the latest Avyakt Vani dated 17.03.07 narrated through BK Gulzar Dadiji, it has been said:

“Koi-koi bachhey thodey jyaadaa gambheer bantey hain, gambheerataa achhi hai lekin jyada gambheerataa serious lagtaa hai, toh serious kisko achha nahee lagtaa hai. Gambheer bano lekin andar gambheerataa ho, baahar chehra muskuraata ho. Muskuraataa hua chehraa sabhi ko pasand aataa hai aur aisey jyada gambheer vala chehraa us-say dartey hain, door bhaagtey hain. Sahyogi nahee banengey. Brahma Baap ka muskuraanaa, Jagat Amba Maan ka muskurana, apnee Dadi ka muskurana, Yaad hai na! Double foreigners ko bhi Dadi ka muskurata chehraa achha lagtaa hai na! Haath hilaa rahey hain. Hanso nahee, muskuraao. Jor say hansnaa nahee, muskuraanaa kyonki BapDada ko abhi teevra purushaarth chahiye. Kyon? Kyonki BapDada nay dekha ki bahutkaal ka sanskaar aavashyak hai. – (Avyakt Vani dinaank 17.03.07, page 3)

“Some children become a little more serious; seriousness is good, but more seriousness appears serious. So nobody likes a serious one. Become serious, but there should be seriousness within and on the outside the face should be smiling. Smiling face is liked by everyone and people remain afraid of such very serious face. They run away from it. They do not become helpful. You remember the smiles of Father Brahma, smiles of Mother Jagdamba, smiles of your Dadi, don’t you? Double foreigners also like the smiling face of Dadi, don’t they? They are shaking their hands. Do not laugh; Smile. Do not laugh loudly; Smile, because BapDada now wants fast efforts. Why? It is because BapDada has seen that longterm sanskars are required." – (Avyakt Vani dtd.17.03.07, page 3)

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Note: The translation has been done by a PBK.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 22 Mar 2007

shivsena wrote:(this clearly means that the advance classes are subtle Bhakti-marg classes conducted by Krishna's soul during the shooting period and not conducted by ShivBaba; as ShivBaba is supreme teacher and would never resort to any indiscipline in his class whatsoever.)[/color]
Occam's Razor would state, could it just not be that Virendra Dev Dixit made a joke and laguhed at it?

Why does every minute of his existence be assigned significance as an act of God Shiva or Krishna?
  • Virendra Dev Dixit goes to the toilet ... he probably has piles ... who is performing the act?
The real problem with humour is that it is actually quite difficult to do. You need to be gifted, intelligent and quick witted in a manner that would make other feel jealous or upset when they miss the point of the joke, or are the butt of it. Inevitably to learn humor, you need to make mistakes which can be painful and to that extend, humour is mostly unkind. But humorous events are gifts in our life and often healers or movers for others. You could say it is just talent rather than virtue and not much value should be put to it
  • Do we devalue the use of humor in provoking change (satire), which often requires virtues such as confidence, courage and clear-sighteness or the desire to defend others? Often a sharp tongue can defeat a sharp sword, and which is better.
Does Shankar have a sense of humour? I would say, yes. A very dry, black sense of humor. But I have no Murli points to back that up yet. My guess is that someone that is free or enlightened ought to be able to switch from being a cheerful, gay princess to being a powerful, sanyas yogi in one second.

(Vishnu Puri to Shankar Puri in other words).

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Post by arjun » 05 Apr 2007

Disc.CD No.227, dated 31.12.06 at Adhyatmik Krishi Farm

Kisi Bhai nay poocha: Baba Sangamyug may aur kitnaa samay padaa hai jee?
Baba nay kaha
: Badee museebat hai. Baba kahtey hain Sangamyug suhaavana yug hai, maujon ka yug hai. Hm? Sangamyug jaisa auspicious yug koi hota hee nahee hai aur yahaan museebat padee hui hai, ek-ek second kab khatam hoga.
Bhai nay poocha: Kitnaa samay aur padaa hai?
Baba nay kaha
: Haan, haan, vahee baat. Sau saal bataaye hain Sangamyug ko. Jyada say jyada sau saal.
Bhai nay poocha: Chattees may sau saal poorey hongey?
Baba nay uttar diya:
Haan, ji.

A brother asked: Baba how much time is still left in the Confluence Age?
Baba replied:
It is such a big trouble!!! Baba says that Confluence Age is a delightful age (suhaavnaa yug), an age of joy (maujon ka yug). Hm? No other age is as auspicious as the Confluence Age at all. And here it has become a big trouble!!! When would every second pass?
The brother asked: How much time is still left?
Baba replied
: Yes, yes, that is what is being told. Hundred years have been mentioned for the Confluence Age - at the most hundred years.
The brother asked: Will the hundred years get completed in thirty-six (i.e. 2036)?
Baba replied
: Yes.

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Note:- The Hindi and English versions of the extracts of above mentioned Discussion CD are just draft versions.

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Post by arjun » 15 Apr 2007

Discussion CD No.232 dated 07.01.07 at Mumbai mini-Madhubans

Kisi nay poocha: Baba, Bhai logon ko surrender kyon nahee kartey?
Baba nay kaha:
Bhai logon ko surrender kyon nahee kartey? Thodey badey ho jaao tab tumhey pataa chalega.

A child asked: Baba, why are brothers not allowed to surrender?
Baba said:
Why are brothers not allowed to surrender? Grow up a little, then you would know.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Baba nay kaha: Tasalli say baithey huay ho sab log, kya baat hai?
Kisi nay kaha: Is baar aaney may deri kar dee na isliye Baba.
Baba nay kaha:
Voh toh ooparvala jaisa programme banaata hai vaisa kabhi jaldi, kabhi baad may kabhi..
Kisi nay poocha: Abhi ooparvala oopar hai kya?
Baba nay kaha:
Tumhaarey liye yaheen hai, hamaarey liye oopar hai.
(kuch der kay baad)
Baba nay kaha: Ho gayaa, ab faaltu baatein poochney lagey hain.

Baba said: Everyone is sitting leisurely; what is the matter?
Someone said: Baba, it is because this time your arrival has been delayed.
Baba said:
It depends on the programme that is set by the above-one; sometimes soon, sometimes late.
Someone asked: Is the above-one now above?
Baba said:
For you He is here, for me He is above.
(After some time)
Baba said:
That is all; now you have started asking wasteful matters.

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Note:- The Hindi and English versions of the extracts of above mentioned Discussion CD are just draft versions.

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Post by bindi » 18 Apr 2007

Dear brothers and sisters
I have gone through the whole thread and in my humble opinion I feel you are missing one point.

There is a vast difference between laughing at someone and laughing with someone. I personally feel that the former is what baba is meaning when he says that jokes etc can be damaging (nuksaandhai). I remember one incident which illustrates this point.

I was travelling with some senior sisters and they saw a soul who had either left or fallen by the wayside. The way that the sisters sort of laughed at the soul made me feel very uncomfortable. At the time I was new in knowledge and did not realise the reason why all this was happening. Now I know better. If we, who are claiming to have found God, cannot show compassion and understanding, then many in the world outside are better than us. :!:

Now I will say that as a teacher, I always felt that to have a good rapport with the children was having the capacity to share a joke with them but at the same time letting them be aware of their boundaries. And seeing as all things are a remberance of Sangam yug then this trait has to have come from the shooting of this time. We are, after all, being taught by the Supreme teacher.

Having a sense of humour helps you to rise above many situations which otherwise would drown you in sorrow. Having a sense of humour brings a smile to your face and in a way, I feel, it leads to contentment which is indeed a trait that dieties have. 8)

bindi mata

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Post by andrey » 08 May 2007

"Whenever you speak to anyone then always definitely smile. When you smile half the other person’s sorrow will be removed. Charity begins at home. Whoever you speak to, whether it is to your companions, Brahmins or those without knowledge, have a smiling face, be a spiritual rose. Do not speak with seriousness. "What are you doing? Why are you doing this?" No. Speak with s a smile. Do you have a stock of smiles? That hasn’t finished has it? A smiling face looks so good. When you see anyone's face full of anger, you want to move away from that person and everyone wants to go close to someone who has a smiling face." (Avyakt Vani 21.10.05)

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