Who is the God of Gita - Krishna, Ram or Shiva baba?

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Who is the God of Gita - Krishna, Ram or Shiva baba?

Post by atma » 13 May 2006

Is Shankar, Prajapita, Ram not the same Chariot?

atma

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Post by andrey » 14 May 2006

Shankar means mixed part. 3 souls play part. Everpure Shiv, rajopradhan Brahma (the half moon on his head) and the impure bodyholder Ram. Prajapita is when all souls accept him as Father, i think Brahma then should be complete. Baba says the easiest method is to remember Narayan because it is a complete form and it is the aim.

Let us assume everyone has had different experiences with BK, but all know little bit of BK terms. Who is it that is explaining in Murlis is matter of faith. In a BK center a mother a Sister or Brother will read the Murli and apply its own understanding, even more ... understanding can be on them /mother, Brother Sister/ sitting on the gaddi, giving drishti or reading the Murli that they are god’s instrument. Shiva enters them. Faith if Shiva at all exists, if it can enter etc, what is the speciality of his personality all of these are all personal experience. How would one accept and approach the Murli is a matter of difference and somewhat ... a choice, isn’t it.

However ... apart from all of these ... one can assume from all BKs or ex-BKs, PBKs, non-BKs there will be one such a person that will like the most, accept the most, follow the most, understand the most the Murlis. Just presuming Shiva exists, he is the narrator of the Murli and he does such acts as he has described about himself in the Murli then the question may be asked would he prefer to enter this child better, or other children better.

He would definitely choose entering a child that has faith on him, and on having faith is firm. He would less probably like to enter such children which are as stone and mud as Baba says staying as a wall of obstacles on the path of Gyan or on receiving a little kick of Maya would break away from the path of knowledge.

So this child with his understanding, his faith on Murli, and bestower of Murli, way of approaching the knowledge, would he be able to contaminate others with faith, or with he contaminate him with faithlessness. He would share faith. And even a doubtful intellect does not doubt that faithful intellect will victorious and doubtful intellect will be destructive.

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Post by john » 16 May 2006

I think as well as entering a child with faith, it's also about ability. Ability to understand and set an example for others to follow. Surely these must be factors that are reasons behind Shivas choice of Chariot?

Brahma's understanding and Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit) are different. There is a contradiction between some of there understandings of Murli. Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit) questioned things about the BKs' understanding of Murli, did that mean he had less faith or more?

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Post by andrey » 16 May 2006

Yes, faith is either 100% or no faith. Can one say ... some things in the Murli are OK, others are not? No. It is that others just need proper understanding. But one who teaches is the Supreme Soul himself.

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Post by john » 16 May 2006

Can one say ... some things in the Murli are OK, others are not
But different souls say that this point in the Murli means one thing and another soul will say it means another.
No. It is that others just need proper understanding
By 'others' you mean not yourself, because you have complete understanding?

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Post by andrey » 16 May 2006

By "others" i mean other point of knowledge from the Murlis that at first glance appear contradictory to some other point of the Murli. These need proper explanation. Understanding may differ and meanings may differ. Anyone has his own intellect to judge what is right or wrong. Baba says knowlewdge should be unadultarated - from one only.

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Alaf got allah

Post by surya » 16 Sep 2006

In the VCD-455-Part-III Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit) says:
In the beginning of the Yagya also the same foundation was laid. Alaf got Allah. The one, who got the title of Brahma, got ‘Bay’ Baadshaahi (i.e. kingship). You take care of your kingship. How long will this false kingship continue?
I don't understand the meaning of Alaf got Allah. Who is Alaf and who is Allah here?
And what is the meaning of got in this context? Has any one an explanation to this?

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Re: Alaf got allah

Post by button slammer » 16 Sep 2006

surya2037 wrote:I don't understand the meaning of Alaf got Allah. Who is Alaf and who is Allah here? And what is the meaning of got in this context? Has any one an explanation to this?
'Allah' means to attain the Confluence Age Kingship = Direct relationship with ShivBaba.
'Bay' means to become a satyugi prince via Confluence Age LAK + NAR
'Allah = A 1st letter of the Alphabet. A= stood upright on both legs, stable and firm.

Allaf = Ram/Prajapita Brahma/Virendra Dev Dixit. The One who becomes equal to God, Shiv/Shankar. He is the Confluence Age Naryan and the parent of Satyugi Krishna. So Allaf got Allah means Prajapita/the Father imbibes all the Godly powers and becomes Master Bestower. 'Bay' represents Dada Lekraj/Brahma Baba who recieves his kingship indirectly- by taking birth from deity parents in Satyug after leaving the body during the Confluence Age.
'You take care of your kingship'.
I like this, to me it says you are in direct control of your own destiny. You have the power to create a kingdom/universe based on your thoughts, words, and actions ie, we create our bodies on the basis of sanskars, which also connects us to the world around us. You, yourself are directly responsible for whatever world you wish to inhabit, especially in referance to the 63 births from Copper Age onwards.

This year during a meeting with Baba/Virendra Dev Dixit he mentioned in response to a question regarding the possibility of becoming part of the rosary of 108, that ' There is full opportunity'. Perhaps meaning that any soul who puts in genuine heartfelt efforts can take a high jump and claim a high post, even now, at this late hour. This drama is full of surprises. Those running at the back can overtake anyone on the last lap and come 1st.

Q Did you hear the starting gun?

This is just my own thoughts on the matter.

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'Alaf and bay'

Post by shivsena » 21 Sep 2006

Dear surya Bhai.

You have posted a very logical and valid query---as to who is 'alaf' and 'allah'.

To understand this full you will have to understand another Murli phrase--''Adi so anth"---meaning that whatever happened at the beginning of the Yagya ie in 1937 will happen in the end when the Yagya ends in the near future.

My view about Alaf is --Dada Lekhraj got visions at the beginning of the Yagya which could not be clarified by his lokik gurus---and the meaning of these visions was provided by Supreme Soul Shiva through the body of Ram (then sevakram) - so Alaf became Ram's soul (by virtue of Shiva entering into his body and Bay (child) became Krishna's soul (who got the responsibility-kingship of the Yagya). Now the same thing has to happen in the end but with a slight difference as both Ram and Krishna are in the same body of Virendra Dev Dixit now (unlike in the beginning). So in the end, 'Alaf' again will be Ram's soul in 100% incorporeal stage when he will be combined with ShivBap and they(shiv+Ram) both will then be seen as living ShivBaba ... and Krishna will then be Bay (child) who will be given the kingdom of God, ie Vaikunth-paradise-jannat-heaven.

This is my churning as per the Murlis.

Another thing which confuses me is the fact that Brahma (Krishna's soul-who is supposed to be child-intellect till 1969 - as he never understood the Murlis of Supreme Soul Shiva) - suddenly after leaving the body due to a heart attack in 1969 becomes so intelligent that he delivers very difficult to comprend avaykt Vanis - and the same avaykt Vanis are then clarified by Supreme Soul Shiva through the body of Virendra Dev Dixit - Why should Supreme Soul Shiva clarify the Vanis of child Krishna? this is my dillemma.

Can any pbk please throw some light on this confusing aspect?

OK Om Shanti---shivsena.
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Post by button slammer » 21 Sep 2006

Another thing which confuses me is the fact that Brahma (Krishna's soul-who is supposed to be child-intellect till 1969--as he never understood the Murlis of Supreme Soul Shiva)------suddenly after leaving the body due to a heart attack in 1969---becomes so intelligent that he delivers very difficult to comprend avaykt Vanis--and the same avaykt Vanis are then clarified by Supreme Soul Shiva through the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit ----Why should Supreme Soul Shiva clarify the Vanis of child Krishna --this is my dillemma.
He is speaking, is he understanding?

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Post by shivsena » 22 Sep 2006

Dear slammer Bhai.

Who is this 'He'----if you mean that Krishna is speaking without understanding what he is speaking---then how can he be in 100% rememberence of ShivBaba----and then Supreme Soul Shiva clarifies the Vanis of Krishna who hears the clarification through Virendra Dev Dixit's body--and then all the PBKs also get to hear the clarification of Krishna's Vanis-----it all looks so confusing--i have still not fully understood the role of Krishna going to mt abu to recite the Vanis every year---especially when no transformation is forthcoming in BKs or the PBKs even after 35 years of brahma becoming avaykt farishta----i think there may be more to it than meets the eye.

OK--Om Shanti---shivsena.
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Post by arjun » 22 Sep 2006

shivsena wrote:Another thing which confuses me is the fact that Brahma (Krishna's soul-who is supposed to be child-intellect till 1969--as he never understood the Murlis of Supreme Soul Shiva) --- suddenly after leaving the body due to a heart attack in 1969 --- becomes so intelligent that he delivers very difficult to comprend avaykt Vanis --- and the same avaykt Vanis are then clarified by Supreme Soul Shiva through the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit --- Why should Supreme Soul Shiva clarify the Vanis of child Krishna --- this is my dillemma.
Dear Shivsena Bhai,
Om Shanti. Nobody in the Brahmin family who is true to ShivBaba in his heart would claim that the knowledge that he gives to others is his own or the service that he is doing is due to his own efforts. So how can we say that Brahma Baba has become so intelligent that he delivers very difficult to comprehend Avyakt Vanis. It is not he but Father Shiv, who makes him to speak those words and it is well known the world over that a soul without a physical body has much more powers than an ordinary human being. So, it is no wonder that the soul of Dada Lekhraj delivers such 'very difficult to comprehend Avyakt Vanis'. Many people in India must be aware of how some pure souls enter into the bodies of human beings at the time of many festivals (especially those associated with many Devis, i.e. female Hindu deities) and speak about the incidents in the near future, both for individuals and for the society at large.

As regards why should ShivBaba clarify the Vanis of child Krishna (Lekhraj Kirpalani), the reply is again that same that the Avyakt Vanis are not Dada Lekhraj's own inventions, but words spoken under the inspiration of ShivBaba. So, it is ShivBaba alone who can clarify those words. Since no BK is allowed to ask any questions to Avyakt BapDada at Mt. Abu, how will the doubts in relation to Avyakt Vanis get clarified. Naturally, it has to be through the final Chariot (mukarrar rath), which we believe Father Shiv is using presently to give clarifications.
Shivsena wrote:I have still not fully understood the role of Krishna going to mt abu to recite the Vanis every year---especially when no transformation is forthcoming in BKs or the PBKs even after 35 years of Brahma becoming avaykt farishta
Om Shanti. As we all know that the soul of Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) played the role of a mother and still carries the sanskars of a mother. And Baba has declared many a times that the biggest weakness of mothers is attachment. So, it is only due to the attachment for the BK children the the soul of Krishna still goes to Mt. Abu to narrate the AVs. Those who have been studying the AVs since the year 1969 might have observed that most of the Avyakt Vanis are repetitive in nature and in many of the AVs of recent years, it is more of chit-chat with the children rather than any serious points of knowledge, even if it is related only to dharana.

This may continue until either the soul of Brahma develops the complete/unwavering faith on the corporeal God of Gita or until the gathering of the knowledgeful souls within the PBKs (the rosary of 8 / 108 / 16000) becomes complete/perfect.
Shivsena wrote:I think there may be more to it than meets the eye.
We would like to know what that hidden meaning is.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by john » 22 Sep 2006

Arjun wrote:Nobody in the Brahmin family who is true to ShivBaba in his heart would claim that the knowledge that he gives to others is his own or the service that he is doing is due to his own efforts.
Then who was it who wrote to the Indian governement to say 'if destruction did not come about in 1976 then he would donate all the Yagya money to them'?
It is not he but Father Shiv, who makes him to speak those words
Can you clarify what you mean by 'makes him'.?
This may continue until either the soul of Brahma develops the complete/unwavering faith on the corporeal God of Gita
For clarification who are you saying is 'God of Gita'?

My own view is that until the correct time in drama, BKs and PBKs have to be kept apart, this is why Brahma still sustains the BK family. If they lost faith in Brahma's role yet still did not have faith in Shankar's role what would they do? Where would they go?

My other view is that the ideas of the chariots are mixed with Shiva's Murli. It has already been said in Murli that Brahma speaks in between in Sakar Murli days and that Shiva will correct. Yet is it known how much influence the Ram soul has over advance knowledge? A little?... a lot?... To say, "no influence", I don't think is correct.

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Post by arjun » 23 Sep 2006

John wrote:Then who was it who wrote to the Indian governement to say 'if destruction did not come about in 1976 then he would donate all the Yagya money to them'?
Since I have not seen the above words in writing anywhere, it would be difficult for me to comment. I have heard to the extent that Brahma Baba gave in writing to the Indian Government about the destruction/transformation that was supposed to take place by 1976.
John wrote:Can you clarify what you mean by 'makes him'.?
By 'makes him' I mean to say 'inspires him' or gives him 'sakaash' (power).
John wrote:For clarification who are you saying is 'God of Gita'?
By 'God of Gita' I mean to say Shiv Shankar Bholeynath. An entire article on this topic was posted in the xbkchat forum. I don't know if it has been posted in this forum also. If you wish that article can be poste in this thread.
John wrote:My own view is that until the correct time in drama, BKs and PBKs have to be kept apart, this is why Brahma still sustains the BK family. If they lost faith in Brahma's role yet still did not have faith in Shankar's role what would they do? Where would they go?...
I somewhat agree to what you say.

Arjun

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Who is who in Ram's body???

Post by shivsena » 25 Sep 2006

Dear pbk brothers.

We all PBKs know that there are 3 souls playing their part in Ram's body; Shiva, Ram, Krishna, and I feel that it is very important for all of us to understand who is playing which part because if we do not understand the part of each soul then we will still be in ignorance(Bhakti) where it is said that ''all in one and one in all''.

The queries are : In the body of Virendra Dev Dixit;
  • Who is Father and who is son?
    Who is teaching RajYoga and who is studying RajYoga?
    What is the purusharth (effort) of Ram's soul-what is the purusharth (effort) of Krishna's soul?
    Who is heavenly Father and who is heavenly prince?
    Who is vishwa ka malik (world controller) and who is Vaikunth ka malik?
    Who is jagannath and who is shrinath?
    Who is rachieta (creator) and who is rachna (creation)?
    And How?
Eagerly waiting for my brothers views.
OK---Om Shanti----shivsena.

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