Who is the God of Gita - Krishna, Ram or Shiva baba?

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Re: Report on Hindu god Ram withdrawn ...

Post by fluffy bunny » 14 Sep 2007

abrahma Kumar wrote:Report on Hindu god Ram withdrawn ... The Indian government has withdrawn a controversial report submitted in court earlier this week which questioned the existence of the Hindu god Ram ...
This story has a serious side. The government want to destroy a natural breakwater that will cause endangerment from Tsumani and the BJP party claim it is linked with the civilian nuclear agreement with America, alleging that the move was aimed at facilitating Thorium supply to the US.

It will obviously will have an environmental impact on the area for what? To aid commmercial shipping channels. Is there a symbolic side to it?

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Report on Hindu god Ram withdrawn ...

Post by abrahma kumar » 14 Sep 2007

Yes, ex-l. It is awareness of the serious side that led me to post without comment.

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Re: Report on Hindu god Ram withdrawn ...

Post by fluffy bunny » 14 Sep 2007

ex-l wrote:Is there a symbolic side to it?
Speaking to myself ... I wonder if Bharat is breaking away from the Kingdom of Ravan!

(Boy, only a BK soul could come up with something like that ... oh, hold on ... there is a message coming through on the Bhog-o-phone ... "Baba says, there'll be no linkas to Lankas" !!!).

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Post by abrahma kumar » 15 Sep 2007

Classic post ex-l !!!

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Post by new knowledge » 17 Sep 2007

John wrote:Some very radical thinking there Shivasena.
shivsena wrote:Thanks for your appreciation.

Shivsena Bhai, I also appreciate your radical thinking.
John wrote:]Where do believe the rest of the souls go at the end of iron age?
shivsena wrote:Good logical question; if there is no Paramdham in outer space then where do the souls go???? I will be giving my views on this later on when we discuss about the rudramala and vijaymala souls.

My dear bro John, I partially agree with shivsena. According to BKs & PBKs Paramdham (the Incorporeal World) is a 'dead silence world', where souls live in intert & unconscious stage without any experience of peace & bliss. Such type of Paramdham really does not exist. But Paramdham do exists where souls live in complete incorporeal stage with full consciousness & complete peace & bliss.

After completion of our corporeal role in this corporeal world, we pass through the Subtle Region, the Casual World & finally we reach to our sweet Supreme Home - the Incorporeal World, where we achieve complete incorporeal stage & finally merge into the Supreme Father Shiv. We suddenly do not jump to the Incorporeal World from the Corporeal World. We've to pass through the Subtle Region & the Casual World to go to the Incorporeal World & also we do not jump direct to the Corporeal World from the Incorporeal World. Here again we've to pass through the Casual World & the Subtle Region to start our role in this Corporeal World. In the Corporeal World we've lowest level of consciousness & in the Incorporeal World we've our highest level of consciousness.
John wrote:If there is not a place to store all the souls, then how does the population increase from 900,000 to 7 billion in the world cycle, or do you have a differing view of the 5,000 year world cycle?
shivsena wrote:Souls are sparks of eternal energy and they do not require space; they are more minute than an atom and just imagine in one cm square of a gold nugget how many atoms of the yellow metal can be concentrated (unlimited; is it not???); then how much space would the souls require????

Shivsena Bhai, let me differ here with you. Though souls are infinitesimal in size, there is some distance in them when they are in Paramdham (the Incorporeal World). This distance/gap between souls is filled by the supreme sky (supreme space) element. Thus the element supreme sky is also part of content elements of Paramdham.

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Post by suryavanshi » 20 Oct 2007

Shivsena Bhai,

Although soul of Brahma (Dada Lekhraj) may interrupt in between, it does not mean that soul of Dada Lekhraj is the controller of that rath(Chariot)). Supreme Soul Shiv is the highest authority in that rath(Chariot) and so He is the controller. He is playing the role of Baap,Teacher and Satguru in that Chariot.( "Behad ke baap kaa varsaa, jaroor behad kaa hi hai.saath yeh mahima bhi buddhi mein aaye.chalte firte tino hi Yaad aaye. is ek aatmaa ki hi tino service eekathi hain.is liye unko supreme bhi kahaan jaata hai" ---- "Unlimited Father has unlimited inheritance.

Together this praise should also come in the intellect.Constantly remember three.This one soul has all the three service together")... Sakar Murli : 3/11/1999. pg 1. Also, it is asked in the Murli, " How does one understand that Supreme Soul is in this body? He will speak Gyan." So, the new points of knowledge keep coming up in advance knowledge and knowledge keeps refining. So, this also shows that Supreme Soul is the authority or controller in that Chariot who brings up new points of knowlegde time to time and soul of Brahma (Dada Lekhraj) does not have any new knowledge to speak.

Human soul cannot clarify the knowledge spoken by Gyan Sagar. Only supreme teacher can clarify the knowledge. So, this also applies to those who will be the top 108 beads of rudramala. If human soul who is patit had that capability then there was no need of the Supreme teacher. Even soul of Ram was able to understand the knowledge only after the presence of Supreme Soul in that Chariot.Also, whatever knowledge had to be clarified has been clarified by Supreme Soul through His permanent Chariot.

Our job is to deeply churn those clarifications to understand their deep meanings as they are. Not only to understand them deeply but become practical embodiment of those points of Gyan or become practical example of being as He wants us to be. It is not our job to bring out new knowledge from the existing points of knowledge. This is the job of the Teacher. Churning has to be done to understand 100% whatever is clarified until now.Because if one does not understand completely, one cannot be that way 100% since we know that Gyan means samajh.

About the top 8 souls of rudramala, Baba has said that they will be the first to be nastomohaa smritilabdh, they will be completely yogi so sahyogi, follow the Shrimat as it is without any adulteration, will only listen to Baba (Gyan surya) and no one else, will be completely busy in the service of the mind, words and action, will have burnt their body consciousness completely (although they are number wise but they differ very slightly). It is said that yogbal sein vishwa ki baadshaahi.

So, this again shows that the method of remembrance of these 8 souls will be accurate and the intensity of remembrance will be much higher than other souls. They will be the accurate rajyogis who will have understood the Rajyog (the raj behind this Yoga) as it is. They will be close to the stage of manmanabhav (i.e. no opposition to the Father even at the level of thoughts) thus, the beads of rudramala will be decided on the basis of their efforts and not any new churning of knowledge. The rest 108 souls after the top 8 would then be numberwise in these matters.

Although the advance knowledge is the same, each soul has the tendency to take it or understand it differently. This will make the souls of rudramala number wise. The understanding that asth dev will have would be close to accuracy and then others follow numberwise. Each soul picks up Gyan differently and each one sees or remembers Baba differently. One becomes as one remembers. So, Yaad is very important subject out of the four subjects.

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Post by new knowledge » 05 Nov 2007

shivsena wrote:By merging I mean that zero(Shiv) and one(Ram) become combined;
According to you, after achievement of 100% incorporeal stage, Rambap becomes the Ocean of knowledge, peace, bliss, happiness & he becomes unlimited celestial degrees complete; also he plays the role of Bap/teacher/Satguru. But for you Shiv(bap) is neither the Ocean of anything nor he possesses any celestial degrees nor he plays the role of Bap/teacher/Satguru. Then how does Bindi Shiv(bap) & incorporeal Ram(bap) merge or combine or become equal?
Shiv does not cease to exist;
Such a type of Shiv(bap), described you, does not exist, then how could he cease to exist?
it just means that for all practical purpose for us PBKs, Ram has achieved the status equal to ShivBap and they cannot be differentiated from each other;
FALSE COMBINATION.
that is why in Bhakti it is said ''Ram nam satya hai''-(not shivnam satya hai)
In Bhakti it is also said "Satyam Shivam Sundaram".
Also I do not believe that there is anything like Paramdham (golden red world) in outer space where ShivBap goes and rests for the next 5000 years;
How could Bindi Shiv(bap) (who does not exist) go to Paramdham?
ShivBap again just becomes an observer in Ram's body for 5000 years (''sadaa kayam iss shristi par sirf ShivBaba hai''; meaning that ShivBaba ie Shiv+Ram is always present on this earth) and that explains the digital technology in science which is based on combination power of zero+one.
False analogy between Shiv-Ram & 0-1. Digital technology uses dual functions like power on & power off for which support of binomial calculations (based on two digits 0 & 1) is taken while designing digital technogy. Here 0 & 1 are mathematical numbers which are intellectual creations of the mathematicians; but the both functions (power off - power on) are real functions. While designing digital technology & softwares, verious REAL combinations of power off - power on functions in the form of bits & bites are used. But in Shiv(bap)-Ram(bap) combination, Shiv (as coined by you) is imaginary & Ram is real; then how their REAL combination could work to be analoguous whth digital technology (where both power off - power on functions are real)??

And any level of development of digital technology, power off & power on functions always maintain their seperate existance & they never become equal. Then why is it necessary to believe that (Bindi) Shiv(bap) & (incorporeal) Ram(bap) become equal.
If zero (Shiv) goes out in space for next 5000 years then why the numerical zero stays with us for next 5000 years -- this is what I have not been able to understand.
Then why Shivaji, Maharana Pratap, Buddha are remembered even after hundreds of years even though they are not present today?

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Post by new knowledge » 10 Nov 2007

John wrote:Where do believe the rest of the souls go at the end of iron age?
shivsena wrote:Good logical question; if there is no Paramdham in outer space then where do the souls go???? I will be giving my views on this later on when we discuss about the rudramala and vijaymala souls.
Still waiting for your answer.
John wrote:If there is not a place to store all the souls, then how does the population increase from 900,000 to 7 billion in the world cycle, or do you have a differing view of the 5,000 year world cycle?
shivsena wrote:Souls are sparks of eternal energy and they do not require space; they are more minute than an atom and just imagine in one cm square of a gold nugget how many atoms of the yellow metal can be concentrated (unlimited; is it not???); then how much space would the souls require????
But the main query of brother John remains unanswered. Why population is increasing??
John wrote:I think glorification of Shiva is not for Shiva's benefit, it's for the human races benefit.
shivsena wrote:If it is for the benefit of human race then all the more reason that it is Rambap who should be revealed and glorified(because he has taken 84 births and achieved the 100% incorporeal stage) and not bindi Shiva, whom the human race (6-7 billion souls) cannot identify with.
But you are that first person on earth who have identified Bindi Shiv(bap?).

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Post by suryavanshi » 15 Dec 2007

This is referred to all PBK brothers and sisters (including shivsena Bhai) who have unshakeable faith in the words uttered by ShivBaba through Virendra Dev Dixit who is the only authentic and chaitanya source of Murli and none other.

The doubts and questions raised by shivsena Bhai on this PBK forum (pertaining to the Soul of Shiv and Soul of Ram and other relevant queries) have been raised by some other PBK brother in the discussion VCD number 151 and 152 (dated : 14/8/2006). These questions have been effectively answered or clarified by ShivBaba through Virendra Dev Dixit. Interested PBK brothers and sisters may refer to these VCDs for clarification on this topic.

It is to be noted that thousands can bring out thousand interpretations from Murlis and millions can bring out million interpretations from it. But since God is One, His Truth is One. Rest all is proved false by default.

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Post by arjun » 15 Dec 2007

Dear suryavanshi,

Om Shanti. The above information was posted long back on this forum in some other thread. But anyways thanks for reminding the new members about it.
I have sent a pm to you. Kindly check the message.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by shivsena » 15 Dec 2007

suryavanshi wrote:The doubts and questions raised by shivsena Bhai on this PBK forum( pertaining to the Soul of Shiv and Soul of Ram and other relevant queries) have been raised by some other PBK Brother in the discussion VCD number 151 and 152 (dated : 14/8/2006). These questions have been effectively answered or clarified by ShivBaba through Veerendra Dev Dixit. Interested PBK Brothers and Sisters may refer to these VCD's for clarification on this topic. It is to be noted that thousands can bring out thousand interpretations from Murlis and millions can bring out million interpretations from it. But since God is One, His Truth is One. Rest all is proved false by default.
Dear suryavanshi Bhai.

This is for your kind information that the questions asked in cd no. 151 and 152 are by not anyone else, but i have been asking these queries to all PBKs and again for your kind information my queries were never answered by Krishna to anyone's satisfaction (who regularly reads Murlis). You are free to voice your opinion but you cannot vouch for everyone. Let each soul hear the conversation between me and Krishna in the above mentioned cds and let them decide for themselves whether my queries were answered to the point.

shivsena.

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Post by pbkdivya » 16 Dec 2007

We were always taught in Advanced Knowledge that just as a soul has mann-buddhi-sanskar, so also the Supreme Soul has mind (mann is Brahma) -- intellect (buddhi is Shankar) and Vishnu is sanskar.
Supreme Soul has a mind but not Supreme Father. Are you implying that the ever-pure Father Shiv who is always in the incorporeal stage has sanskars too. Sanskars are a result of the actions of the intellect and the mind. If ShivBaba has a mind, then He too will have criminal eyes. Also it will not be said as the "ever-pure Shiv," It is said, "the mind is like a wild horse" and the "conqueror of the mind is the conqueror of the world"---if Shiv has a mind, then He has to tame His own mind and become the conqueror of the world first.
Were you not taught these things when you took the 7 days Advance Course? Murli also says, "jaisi atma waise paramatma" (this does not mean that atma is bindi, so paramatma is also a bindi), it means that just as a soul has mind-intellect and sanskars so the Supreme Soul also has mind-intellect-sanskars.
I was taught that all souls (inclusive of Supreme Soul) has mind, intellect and sanskars but not the Father of the souls, i.e. Shiv.
The whole study is to know what are these; bindi (dot) is just a representation of soul and Supreme Soul on paper; remembering bindi has never given sadgati to anyone for last 70 years. This is what I feel.
If there is no sadgati to-date, is because the personality in whom ShivBaba is residing hasn't attained the 100% incorporeal stage yet. It is said that "when one has become pure, then everyone will become pure"--- so who is that one?

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Re: Churning about the opening of the Third Eye

Post by shivsena » 16 Dec 2007

abrahma Kumar wrote:Your post seems to attribute a physical dimension to the third eye being opened which I have never encountered before. Has your study really led you to believe that BKs feel that when their third eye gets opened they are able to literally "see" souls?
Dear abrahmakumar.
Everyone knows that there are two physical eyes only ; the third eye is the eye of the intellect, which enables one to see things which an ordinary person cannot see; for eg a doctor through his third eye of knowledge can diagnose diseases which a ordinary person cannot; so also a rudramala soul with the help of Murlis can see things which a ordinary praja soul cannot see; Ram's soul realised his part only through reading the Murlis of Shiva and i feel that 108 rudrasouls will also recognise their part just by reading the Murlis and recognising Ram as ramshivbaba(in 100% incorporeal stage).
Shivsena.

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Post by shivsena » 16 Dec 2007

button slammer wrote:Thanks for your continued interest and enthusiasm in the discussion on Advanced Knowledge topics. Today in Murli Baba was saying 'Sit considering yourself to be a soul, and then remember the Father'. So if Rambab/Veerendra Dev Dixit is using this method to achieve his 100% incorporeal stage in order to become Bapsaman, can we not also adopt this method in the meantime and even if we do not achieve the same result as Rambap/Veerendra Dev Dixit then at least we can come close/numberwise. It seems your churning only points to a future date when Rambap/Veerendra Dev Dixit achieves his 100% incorporeal stage.

I feel that the knowledge is given to all (althoughRam/Veerendra Dev Dixit hears first) and so we can inculcate it as we wish. By waiting for Ram/Veerendra Dev Dixit to achieve his perfect stage, or by thinking that only in the future is anything attainable then we will miss the boat and repent of the time wasted. 'Sit considering yourself to be a soul, and then remember the Father' :). So, if the accurate method is available for one, should it not also be available for all?
Dear slammer Bhai.
There is much difference between how Ram remembers bindishiv and how we remember ShivBaba; Shiva is zero and Ram is no 1. soul and the rest of us are numberwise behind Ram; so first Ram and zero have to become a single entity as Alaf (Ramshivbaba) and then after Ram attains his stage then we all have to relate to Ramshivbaba and not to zero Shiva; no one can come between one and zero; only by remembering combined zero and one ie. Alaf, can we attain mukti and jeevan-mukti in one second; by remembering only zero we will attain only mukti and not jeevan-mukti.

Ram has to remember shiv bindi without a body to achieve the 100% nirakari stage and we have to remember the nirakari stage of Ramshivbaba through the present body to become numberwise nirakari stage; Shiv is parampita(bindi Father of all bindi souls) and Ram is paramatma(Supreme Soul among all 6 billion souls) and only when they combine they are called Parampita paramatma and we have to remember both in combined form; neither parampita(shiv) alone or paramatma(Ram) alone can give salvation to anyone; that is the difference between our purusharth and Ram's purusharth.


Just think about it:
  • Murli 14-4-76; ''Ram kaha jaata hai ShivBaba ko'' (Ram is called ShivBaba).
    Murli 18-8-69, ''Ram kaha jaata hai bap ko'' (Ram is called Father).
    Murli 30-10-99; Shiva says, "ShivBaba bahut secret hai; bap kitna secret hai. koi bhi pehchante nahin. bap kya hai kissi ko pataa nahin". (English translation: 'ShivBaba is very secret. Father is very secret. no one recognises the Father. Who is Father, nobody knows".)
BKs and PBKs very well know bindi ShivBaba in the body of Lekhraj and Virendra Dev Dixit; so Who is this secret ShivBaba which Shiva is speaking of ??

It is very clear from the above Murlis that Shiva is emerging the nirakari stage of Ram's soul and refering to ''Ram as secret ShivBaba'', whom no one in the pbk family has recognised till now and only 108 kings souls will recognise Ramshivbaba in future.

shivsena.

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Post by arjun » 21 Dec 2007

Murli 14-4-76; ''Ram kaha jaata hai ShivBaba ko'' .(Ram is called ShivBaba)
It could also be translated as "ShivBaba is called Ram". Similarly,
Murli 18-8-69, ''Ram kaha jaata hai bap ko'' (Ram is called Father)
could also be translated as "The Father is called Ram".

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