Who is the God of Gita - Krishna, Ram or Shiva baba?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Dec 2007

shivsena wrote:Just think about it: English translation: 'ShivBaba is very secret. Father is very secret. no one recognises the Father. Who is Father, nobody knows".)

BKs and PBKs very well know bindi ShivBaba in the body of Lekhraj and Veerendra Dev Dixit; so Who is this secret ShivBaba which Shiva is speaking of ??
He means secret in relationship to the rest of the whole ... besides, what indication is there that it was Shiva that speaking of ShivBaba? It make much more sense that it was just the soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani that was talking.

I think bottomslapper makes the most sense where he suggest that one just uses the method that Virendra Dev Dixit and Lekhraj Kirpalani used. Once you get as far as they got along the path, then perhaps you will be in a position to re-interpret their teachings.

In the meantime, any chance of moving towards getting a complete copy of all your Murlis on the internet somewhere? Both Virendra Dev Dixit and Lekhraj Kirpalani have done their bit in their time, It would be nice if one of the 108 did their bit.

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Post by arjun » 21 Dec 2007

ex-l wrote:In the meantime, any chance of moving towards getting a complete copy of all your Murlis on the internet somewhere? Both Veerendra Dev Dixit and Lekhraj Kirpalani have done their bit in their time, It would be nice if one of the 108 did their bit.
I am not in the race for 108 :D but I can upload some scanned copies of revised Sakar Murlis published by BKs in Hindi if required depending upon the availability of time :).

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by shivsena » 21 Dec 2007

arjun wrote:I am not in the race for 108
Dear arjun Bhai.

If you are not in the race for 108, then are you here to be one of royal praja (16000). If that is so, then there is no need for you to do any purusharth for coming in 16000. Just recognising Ram's soul (Virendra Dev Dixit) through advance knowledge is enough for anyone to come in 16000.

As for me, my aim is definitely to come in 108; any study, without any aim or object is just a waste of time.

shivsena.

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Arjun for President ...

Post by button slammer » 22 Dec 2007

If you are not in the race for 108, then are you here to be one of royal praja(16000); if that is so, then there is no need for you to do any purusharth for coming in 16000; just recognising Ram's soul (Veerendra Dev Dixit) through Advanced Knowledge is enough for anyone to come in 16000. As for me, my aim is definitely to come in 108; any study, without any aim or object is just a waste of time.
I get the feeling that Arjun is not one to blow his own trumpet. Nor would he accept any praise. Arjun is cool. 8) Like Father like son. :)
In the meantime, any chance of moving towards getting a complete copy of all your Murlis on the internet somewhere? Both Veerendra Dev Dixit and Lekhraj Kirpalani have done their bit in their time, It would be nice if one of the 108 did their bit.
ShivBaba has mentioned that a deity soul is co-operative. Already Arjun has posted apre '69 Sakar Murli, also by the co-operative help of Baba/Virendra Dev Dixit. Of what practical use/co-operation has Shivsena been? For the past 2-3 years all we have heard is is own versions. He only uses the forum to advertise his own theories (for the enlightenment of PBKs). However he hasn't made any progress in establishing his ideology, in fact, the general level of his questions and views seem to be drying out.

Whilst he has presented himself as a great scholar, and his viewpoints have been of some interest, it yet remains to be seen whether there is any soulfulness/fellow feeling for other forum members, or has any other consideration for what the forum represents or is attempting to achieve, which may well be an initial step foreward in uniting the entire Brahmin family and ushering in the New World.

So there you have it ShivSena. You've had center stage for quite some time now. Your ideas are interesting but your are playing the same old tune. Perhaps its time to lend a hand. A deity soul is co-operative. You consider yourself as part of the 108. Now show that elevated deity status in a practical way. Baba says 'Service is what is required at the time'.Your help is definitely required. Let's just agree to disagree for the time being and let's get on with the bigger picture of respecting each others view point and helping the Brahmin world at large. It seems that for every question you ask, you recieve half a dozen replies. For each reply, you ask another round of questions, and so it goes on ...

:lol: and of course, best wishes and respect to you, whatever you decide :).
I think bottomslapper makes the most sense where he suggest that ...
The spanker has spoken ... :!:

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Re: Arjun for President ...

Post by shivsena » 22 Dec 2007

button slammer wrote: I get the feeling that Arjun is not one to blow his own trumpet. Nor would he accept any praise. Arjun is cool. 8) Like Father like son. :)
i am not blowing my own trumpet (everything is a matter of perception), i am just trying to reveal the nirakari stage of Ramshivbaba as the God of Gita. Nowhere i have tried to reveal myself; only 108 souls will become like Father. 16000 and 9,00,000 will never become like Father Ram as they will never recognise Ram's nirakari stage.
In the meantime, any chance of moving towards getting a complete copy of all your Murlis on the internet somewhere? Both Veerendra Dev Dixit and Lekhraj Kirpalani have done their bit in their time, It would be nice if one of the 108 did their bit.
I think i am doing my part to reveal the Father Ramshivbaba to the best of my capacity.
ShivBaba has mentioned that a deity soul is co-operative. Of what practical use/co-operation has Shivsena been? For the past 2-3 years all we have heard is is own versions. He only uses the forum to advertise his own theories (for the enlightenment of PBKs). However he hasn't made any progress in establishing his ideology, in fact, the general level of his questions and views seem to be drying out.
I have always been very co-operative. If somebody does not agree to my views then does it mean i am non-cooperative?? i have always shared my churnings as per the Murli points; my churnings (theories) are based on Murlis, which has not been the case with PBKs. They have more belief in cds and cassettes while i rely on my study of Murlis and my intuition and common sense and logic to come to any conclusion. For you, my views maybe drying out, but till the last moment i will keep on harping on the same point that Ramshivbaba is God of Gita and that part will start only when Ram reaches his 100% nirakari stage in future; you may become tired of hearing about Ramshivbaba but i will never become tired of singing praises of Ramshivbaba till my last breath.
Whilst he has presented himself as a great scholar, and his viewpoints have been of some interest, it yet remains to be seen whether there is any soulfulness/fellow feeling for other forum members, or has any other consideration for what the forum represents or is attempting to achieve, which may well be an initial step foreward in uniting the entire Brahmin family and ushering in the New World.
The first step towards uniting the brahmin family is the true recognition of Father Ramshivbaba. The rest will follow automatically.
shivsena.

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Post by suryavanshi » 22 Dec 2007

The first step towards uniting the Brahmin family is the true recognition of Father Ramshivbaba; the rest will follow automatically.
The first step towards uniting the Brahmin family will be formation of a group of 12 pure suryavanshi souls (includes first 8 deities). This group will then automatically attract the remaining 96 souls who are part of this 108 rudramala. These 96 souls will belong to different religions of the world and are therefore less powerful than the first 12.

It has already been clarified in the vcds that, "Is shrusti par sada kayam toh ek ShivBaba hi hain" i.e. soul of Ram is referred to as ShivBaba. So this is not something unknown to the PBKs. But is it that only this knowledge is what the 108 souls have to understand? Or there are many other relevant factors in the purusharth which are also important.

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Post by shivsena » 23 Dec 2007

suryavanshi wrote:The first step towards uniting the Brahmin family will be formation of a group of 12 pure suryavanshi souls (includes first 8 deities). This group will then automatically attract the remaining 96 souls who are part of this 108 rudramala. These 96 souls will belong to different religions of the world and are therefore less powerful than the first 12.
I agree that, first 9 groups of 12 souls of various religions will seperate out according to their ideologies but these groups do not have the power to unite themselves into one brotherhood under one Father; only when all-powerful Ramshivbaba comes on the scene then all the 9 groups will be united and then it will be universal brotherhood in the pbk family and then in bk family.
  • No Father (Ramshivbaba) -- no unity, no peace;
    Know Father (Ramshivbaba) -- know unity, know peace.
It has already been clarified in the vcds that, "Is shrusti par sada kayam toh ek ShivBaba hi hain" i.e. soul of Ram is referred to as ShivBaba. So this is not something unknown to the PBKs. But is it that only this knowledge is what the 108 souls have to understand? Or there are many other relevant factors in the purusharth which are also important.
If Ram's soul is accepted as ShivBaba in the pbk family, then where is the question of debate and mis-understanding and in-fighting between the PBKs; they should have united long back.
arjun wrote:It could also be translated as "ShivBaba is called Ram". Similarly, could also be translated as "The Father is called Ram".
Dear arjun Bhai.
It all depends on what one wants to see; i would rather see Ram as nirakari stage ShivBaba, than see bindi ShivBaba as Ram; i just cannot remember or relate to bindi ShivBaba but i can very well relate to Ramshivbaba (as it gives me the encouragement and inspiration to attain the nirakari stage like him; if Ram no. 1 soul can shed his body-consciousness 100% , then why cannot we children become like Him numberwise; this thought makes thing easier for me)

shivsena.

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Post by suryavanshi » 23 Dec 2007

It all depends on what one wants to see; I would rather see Ram as nirakari stage ShivBaba, than see bindi ShivBaba as Ram; I just cannot remember or relate to bindi ShivBaba but I can very well relate to Ramshivbaba (as it gives me the encouragement and inspiration to attain the nirakari stage like him
How do you see the nirakari stage of Ram different from the nirakari stage of ShivBaba?

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Post by shivsena » 24 Dec 2007

suryavanshi wrote:How do you see the nirakari stage of Ram different from the nirakari stage of ShivBaba?
When Ram reaches 100% nirakari stage then he becomes Ramshivbaba and then He cannot be differentiated from bindi ShivBaba. They merge to-gether as single entity. When you remember bindi ShivBaba you omit Ram (Alaf) but when you remember Alaf (Ram) then it is understood that bindi ShivBaba is always there; so which is better to remember?? bindi ShivBaba alone or Alaf (Ramshivbaba)!! This is a very small difference on paper but in practical the whole teaching of advance knowledge changes dramatically.
shivsena.

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Post by arjun » 24 Dec 2007

When Ram reaches 100% nirakari stage then he becomes Ramshivbaba and then He cannot be differentiated from bindi ShivBaba. They merge to-gether as single entity. When you remember bindi ShivBaba you omit Ram(Alaf) but when you remember Alaf(Ram) then it is understood that bindi ShivBaba is always there; so which is better to remember?? bindi ShivBaba alone or Alaf(Ramshivbaba)!! This is a very small difference on paper but in practical the whole teaching of Advanced Knowledge changes dramatically.
The basic difference between your concept of RamShivbaba and the concept of ShivBaba as followed by most PBKs is that you focus more on the soul of Ram while other PBKs focus more on the Supreme Soul Shiv in the body of Ram.

You say that - Remember Ram (Shiv is automatically understood to be present with him). I (and probably other PBKs) believe - Remember Shiv in the body of Ram (the soul of Ram is automatically understood to be present with him).

So, the difference of opinion between both of us is basically the difference in focus that we have either on the soul of Shiv or Ram.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Bindi ShivBap converted into Bindi ShivBaba!!!

Post by new knowledge » 24 Dec 2007

Dear brother shivsena, according to you -
  • 1) you cannot remember Bindi ShivBaba;
    2) also you cannot relate to him (Bindi ShivBaba);
    3) he is not the Ocean of knowledge &
    4) he does not have any Karmic account with us.
Then why are you refering such a usless concept of 'Bindi ShivBaba'. Also you have totally failed to submit just a single Murli point to prove the existance of such Bindi ShivBaba as described above.

Again if we are not related to Bindi ShivBaba in any way & if we should not remember him, then why is it necessary for him to deliver Murlis through the medium of Dada Lekhraj???'? Who inspires him to deliver Murlis?

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Post by shivsena » 24 Dec 2007

arjun wrote: The basic difference between your concept of RamShivbaba and the concept of ShivBaba as followed by most PBKs is that you focus more on the soul of Ram while other PBKs focus more on the Supreme Soul Shiv in the body of Ram. So, the difference of opinion between both of us is basically the difference in focus that we have either on the soul of Shiv or Ram.
Dear arjun Bhai.

Yes- that is the basic difference between my rememberence of ShivBaba and how the other PBKs remember ShivBaba. but this difference changes the advance knowledge dramatically. When i see Ram and shiv as a single entity, then this body of Virendra Dev Dixit belongs to Krishna (as Ram becomes 100% a-shariri). So for me this body of Virendra Dev Dixit then becomes the 84th birth of Krishna and so Krishna at the end of 84th birth becomes prajapita brahma and Bharat (no. 1 patit brashtachari soul of the behad ka drama) in whom Ramshivbaba then re-incarnates and makes him into no. 1 pure soul.

On the other hand, if only bindi shiv is remembered as ShivBaba in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit, then PBKs view Ram as sharir-dhari and they then consider Ram as prajapita and Bharat (which has never been said in the Murlis directly) and the present false status of advance knowledge (jhooti Krishna ki Gita) continues to cause the downfall of PBKs. This is what i do not agree to (as per the Murlis) and this is what i want to oppose and highlight to PBKs sleeping in the night of brahma.

shivsena.

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Post by andrey » 24 Dec 2007

So you say that Ram will become 100 ashariri still Krishna will become 100 percent shariri in the same body, but then Ram will again reincarnate that means will lose this 100 % ashariri stage and at this time he will make the soul of Krishan no.1 pure soul that makes no sense, because he should have done this whilst he is 100 % ashariri so that he can make him the same is it not?

As i undertsand you say that whilst Ram is 100% ashariri krshina cannot manage to reach this stage, but he reaches it after Ram reincarnates (i don't know what you mean by reincarnates but i suppose you mean he loses his 100% ashariri stage). Then how will he (Ram) make him(Krishna) pure if he himself(Ram) starts losing his purity (100 % ashariri stage).

Dear brother i have observed in you the way Maya operates as described in the Murli. There it is said that first she tries to separate us from the Father.

As far as your status is concerned I am happy to accept you as a king of 108, but i don't see why you can have complaints about us listening to vcds and even narrating whatever we have heard. This is like denying each ones basic, human right to choose for himself.

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Post by shivsena » 24 Dec 2007

andrey wrote: As far as your status is concerned I am happy to accept you as a king of 108, but I don't see why you can have complaints about us listening to vcds and even narrating whatever we have heard. This is like denying each ones basic, human right to choose for himself.
I am the last person on earth to deny the right to choose for one's self. i just want to make the PBKs aware that the advance knowledge is not the last word in Godly knowledge and there maybe more than what is taken for granted by PBKs. If i have found a unknown treasure in Shiva's Murlis, then i feel that it is my duty to share it with my brothers and if i did not do that, then in the end they may call me selfish for not sharing the gems of knowledge. So sharing helps me both ways.

I have chosen a path which i feel is right for me and so likewise you are definitely free to follow any path you feel right.

shivsena.

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Post by suryavanshi » 24 Dec 2007

When Ram reaches 100% nirakari stage then he becomes Ramshivbaba
Chalo kuch samay ke liye yeh maan liyaa jaaye ki ShivBaba abhi nahi hain, future mein honge tab honge ... Lekin abhi aapko Shrimat dene waalaa kaun hain ...? Aap kiski mat par chaltein hon jab aap ke liye abhi baap hain hi nahi practical mein?
I agree that, first 9 groups of 12 souls of various religions will seperate out according to their ideologies but these groups do not have the power to unite themselves into one brotherhood under one Father; only when all-powerful Ramshivbaba comes on the scene then all the 9 groups will be united and then it will be universal brotherhood in the PBK family and then in BK family.
Unity is possible only if there is purity. The first sangathan (group) of 12 souls (forget the remaining 96 because what is applicable to first 12, it is number waar for 96) will be united because of purity since there can be no unity possible without purity. So, for unity purity is a pre-requisite. So, if ShivBaba will come in future then how did these first 12 souls achieve that purity to be united because only ShivBaba can teach what is purity and how to become pure?
so for me this body of Veerendra Dev Dixit then becomes the 84th birth of Krishna
Birth of human soul is through the womb of the mother, whether it is soul of Ram or it is soul of Krishna ... they are born through womb of the mother in their last births. So, when we say 84 births, then soul of Krishna should have taken 84 births as described above. The soul of Krishna had his own body only till 1969 which was his last birth.

So, soul of Krishna in the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit is not the owner of that body. It is not his body. He has not taken birth through the womb of the mother through that body. So, that cannot be considered as birth. It is the soul of Ram who has taken birth in that body in 1942. The soul of Krishna does not have it's own body like soul of Ram and we have.The soul of Krishna has just entered that body owned by soul of Ram. And entering someone's body is not called birth.

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