Question about Virendra Dev Dixit's life before Gyan

DEDICATED to PBKs.
For PBKs who are affiliated to AIVV, and supporting 'Advanced Knowledge'.
User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Jun 2006

Aimée wrote:For example programmes on origins of religion, or mythology ... Baba (in Virendra Dev Dixit) says that the films allowed are the Mahabharat, Ramayan etc. All that will give us help in understanding the religious background, the scriptures, the stories that are mentioned in the Murlis, and because the Mahabharat and Ramayan, it is in fact our story.
Apart from the sex lust and illusionary perfection of romantic involvement, I think that most movies can be seen on a metaphorical level [ e.g. good versus evil ] or even psychological level [ e.g. different parts / sanskars playing off one another. I don't necessarily think most movie viewers can see them in that light though! Most just switch off their intellects [Buddhis], allow their mind [Man] to be sucked into them and be programmed by whatever the agenda of the producers is.

My comment and question to the PBKs is that this is of course a very Bharatwasi point of view. Is God a Bharatwasi? Do the Western mythologies not count nor have any meaning to those of us that are in the West, e.g. Greek, Nordic, Celtic myths - even elements of Christianity? Is Shiv through Dada Lekhraj was highly limited because those questioning him were of a very limit background and culture and even Dada Lehkraj was caught in his own bygone age. How does Shiv through Virendra Dev Dixit differ?

Its a very bitter pill for us to swallow that all of Western culture is of no value in comparison the funfair freakshow of Hinduism or Bollywood. Remember, it was Lekhraj's taste to go see cheap commercial Bollywood, not ours! The BKWSU was originally very dismissive of the arts and culture. It took quite a rigid pro-Hindu and very unevolved view about what was right and what was wrong. This was obviously a BK Senior Sister issue and not a Godly one. The sisters were only human and not culturally educated. The Sindi community that they largley came from has been quite widely ciriticised for its debased values.

I wonder if Shiv has expressed his own views on the West, Westerners and Western Culture both modern and ancient?

Is there any chance that we will see him out of India, relating to non-Hindus and non-Bharatwasis, analysing and responding to other cultures and civilisations - or is he strictly a Hindu God?

User avatar
uddhava
ex-BK
Posts: 112
Joined: 13 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by uddhava » 08 Jun 2006

ex-l wrote:I wonder if Shiv has expressed his own views on the West, Westerners and Western Culture both modern and ancient?

Is there any chance that we will see him out of India, relating to non-Hindus and non-Bharatwasis, analysing and responding to other cultures and civilisations - or is he strictly a Hindu God?
Well God can only speak Hindi at the moment, so that is a problem. In the evolution of Tibetan Buddhism we have seen that tulkus (reincarnated high lamas) have begun to take western births, so who knows - maybe one of God's future chariots could be a westerner. Another thing is that eastern teachers tend to have very poor understanding of Christianity - this is natural in a way because I mean what does the average westerner understand about Hinduism? But I guess that teachers should stick to their own area of expertise and refrain from passing comment on areas outside their expertise. Anyway it would be interesting to look at the references to Christianity or non-Hindu religions in general in the Murli to see if they are God-like / omniscient or just a regular Indian's view of things. On the other hand I don't think anyone knows which bits of the Murli are God and which are the Chariot so maybe it would be a waste of time. :roll:

User avatar
john
Reforming BK
Posts: 1606
Joined: 03 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: UK

Post by john » 08 Jun 2006

Uddhava wrote:On the other hand I don't think anyone knows which bits of the Murli are God and which are the Chariot so maybe it would be a waste of time.
Actually do any of the Hindu born BKs/PBKs really care who said what? Maybe they are so steeped in Bhakti they cannot see the wood for the trees and it's the westerners with more analytical minds and being outside the (physical) loop who ask these questions.

User avatar
aimée
PBK
Posts: 190
Joined: 06 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: Oxford

Post by aimée » 08 Jun 2006

ShivBaba is so much in another wave lenght that it is actually our main work to understand who he is, the day we do, that is probably the end of our journey ... The tree explains very well the ideas of different religions coming one by one from Copper Age onwards. On one side, Baba (in Virendra Dev Dixit) says they are the reason for our downfall, because instead of living under one direction, in total harmony, we start the dualism, first with Abraham and Islam.

However, he also says that the drama cannot be changed and it is necessary to experience sorrow (in kalyug), otherwise we would not appreciate our happiness in Golden Age. It is at the same time for each birth of a religion, another influence that would take us far away from our original religion, but it is also, when they are at their Golden Age, a way to prevent the world to go too much into the vices. The idea is that a new pure soul enters a Chariot, like Christ entered Jesus, but because they do not have the strength and the detachment of God, the entropy goes on much quicker. For all the religion there is a reason.

This is the way I see it. First Islam comes, and because there is no population, the main vice accepted is lust, otherwise the population could not increase, the counterpart, the quality, is faithful to one, this is the only religious Father that has his head towards the trunk. The Christian religion is famous for its love, and the counterpart of it is anger. The bouddhism, that comes just before, it is peace, but also lack of power to face, as in history when they were invaded by some conquerors (Muslim but I am not sure), they did not prevent them from taking their wives and children.

Baba has a precise overall view of the world drama and the part of each religion. Among the BK and PBK are all the religions included. He knows more about our own religion in a way that we do ourselves, because he has the whole picture.

When we ask Baba something, he very rarely gives a straight answer because he does not want to interfere in our drama. But I think the question about whether he would come to the foreign country was asked, and he said that he was the Father of everyone, so why not? But does not mean yes!

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11513
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Post by arjun » 08 Jun 2006

Om Shanti.
Quite some time ago the following Avyakt Vani point was circulated among the PBKs via email as part of the daily mails that are sent to PBKs.

· “What is said to be Madhuban? Wherever there is a gathering of Brahmins, it is Madhuban. So, make every place of foreign countries a Madhuban. If you prepare Madhuban, then Bap-Dada will also come. Because it is Baba’s promise that He has to come in Madhuban. So wherever there is Madhuban there is Bap-Dada. In future you will see many wonders. ..... Wherver you live, the name must spread everywhere. A question must arise (in the minds of people) as to who are these people and what is this? When you prepare such a gathering then wherever there is a gathering BapDada will also be present practically.” (Avyakt Vani at the page no. 344 of the compilation of Avyakt Vanis for the years 1977-1980, most probably dated 11.2.78)

In this connection a PBK had asked Baba the following question to which the reply given by Baba is given below in red letters:

Is it to say that Baba will travel outsie of India then?
-------Is He only the Baba of India? Gandhi Bapu (Dada Lekhraj Brahma) is of India only. Baba is world Father. Being the Father of the world, he is international.

I hope this answers the question raised by ex-l to a great extent.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11513
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Post by arjun » 08 Jun 2006

Dear ex-l,
Om Shanti. You wrote:
"My comment and question to the PBKs is that this is of course a very Bharatwasi point of view. Is God a Bharatwasi? Do the Western mythologies not count nor have any meaning to those of us that are in the West, e.g. Greek, Nordic, Celtic myths - even elements of Christianity?"
God Shiv is not a Bharatwasi, he is Father of all the souls, both human and animal souls. So, he has a knowledge of the entire world, but since does not perform miracles when He takes a divine incarnation on this Earth, he acts like an ordinary man. To be more specific, he has to limit himself to some extent to the human Chariot in which he enters. For e.g. although Father Shiv may understand any language, but He has to limit his understanding to Hindi and to some extent English when He is interacting with His children.

As regards the scriptures other than Hindu mythology, I have heard Baba telling that the advance knowledge is such that it can be tallied with any scripture or in fact any field of the world. The only thing is that we have to make a comparative study and present the essence to Baba for approval. I am sure many new points will emerge.

When I saw the bits of English movie on Moses (the Ten Commandments I suppose), I felt that it very much resembles the role of Baba in the present Chariot. Just as Moses, in spite of being a Prince chose to work as a labourer in the miserable conditions prevalent at that time, ShivBaba's present Chariot also had to lead a miserable life for a long time in the present birth. Even now he is suffering so much for the sake of his children. We get tired of travelling within a city but he has been travelling throughout India in different terrains in difficult climates throughout the year. In the morning he is narrating Murli in one village/city and in the night he is in some other village/town. I have seen him travel by most of the modes of transport available in India. If any PBK can present the story of Moses to Baba in a brief and simple text, we may get an appropriate answer about its relationship with the advance knowledge. I did not do it since I did not want to present any wrong fact on the basis of the bits of movie that I saw.

I would come up with some more comparisons with the Western scriptures in my further posts.
With regards,
ON Godly service,
Arjun

User avatar
john
Reforming BK
Posts: 1606
Joined: 03 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: UK

Post by john » 08 Jun 2006

Aimee wrote:But I think the question about whether he would come to the foreign country was asked, and he said that he was the Father of everyone, so why not? But does not mean yes!
That's an interesting answer ... hope he does :D

User avatar
bansy
Posts: 1643
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by bansy » 08 Jun 2006

Arjun wrote:I would come up with some more comparisons with the Western scriptures in my further posts.
This is a nice idea.

This is what I feel, that some scripture understanding alongside the understanding of festivals, both in relation to their spiritual significance (not the physical significance), is what Baba says about the having the understanding of the "History and Geography" because this encompasses the 3 aspects of time, the past, present and future. (Some folks may add the tilting of the earth axis but that's a bit too hard to study on for now). But being within the framework of the cyclical nature of time and the wheel of drama elements, the past IS also the future, and the future IS also the past.

The Confluence Age is a funny time to be in. And it is not wrong to churn on this area, because, if one is to go through the 84 births properly, then one is going to have something to add however absurd it may actually seem. This is the only time you'll get to play and be part of the Raja Yoga Million Part Jigsaw Puzzle, with some of us starting of with the first piece working outwards, or some from the edges working in.

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11513
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Post by arjun » 09 Jun 2006

Om Shanti.
In continuation of my earlier post about the comparison of the path of knowledge with the outside world, I would like to take up the comparison between the BK-PBK on the one hand and the Catholics and Protestants on the other hand.

In the advance knowledge, Baba quotes the examples of the references of Shrinath and Jagannath temples dedicated to Krishna located in the Western (rich) and Eastern (comparatively poorer) India. Those who have been regular listeners/readers of Sakar Murlis published by BKs, must be aware of these references.

Baba says that the temple of Shrinath is famous for its luxury, both in the decoration of the idol of Krishna and the huge varieties of costly eatables offered as Bhog, which are later on purchased by the rich devotees.

In comparison the temple of Jagannath is famous for its simple idol of Krishna represented by a round wooden plate and simple rice offered as Bhog to the presiding deity and later on served to all the devotees free of cost. Baba also speaks about the rice getting divided into four parts (representing four major religions).

The temple of Shrinath and its priests & worshippers represents Brahma Baba and his helpers (the BKs).

The temple of Jagannath and its worshippers represent Prajapita (Shankar) and his helpers (the PBKs).

Post-1969 BKs have been indulging in various kinds of luxuries that are not available even to middle class or ordinarily rich people of the society.

The PBK way of life (especially at the mini-Madhubans) is very simple, there are no luxuries, the food is too simple to prompt BKs to charge that PBKs mix something in the khichdi so that the intellect of visitors turns in their favour.

The above situation could be compared to the Catholics and Protestants among the Christians. I have a book named “History of World Religions” written by David S.Noss. In the chapter 16 on “The Religious Development of Christianity” while discussing about the Protestant Reformation the author writes,
For example, John Ball, the so-called mad priest of Kent, cried out in England as early as the fourteenth century – My good friends, matters cannot go on well in England until all things shall be in common; when there shall be neither vassals nor lords; when the lords shall be no more masters than ourselves....Are we not all descended from the same parents, Adam and Eve? So what reason can they give why they should be more masters than ourselves? They are clothed in velvet and rich stuffs, ornamented with ermine and other furs, while we are forced to wear coarse linen. They have wine, spices, and good bread, while we have only rye bread and the refuse of the straw; and when we drink it must be water. They have handsome seats and manors, while we have the trouble and the work, and must brave the rain and the wind in the fields. And it is by our labor they have wherewith to support their pomp. – in such words lay the seeds of the peasant revolts of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries in England and central Europe.

I feel the Catholics can be compared to the BKs while the Protestants can be compared to the PBKs.
I would obtain Baba's approval for the above submission and intimate changes if any.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

User avatar
bansy
Posts: 1643
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by bansy » 09 Jun 2006

Arjunbhai,

Interesting post. I'll bear in mind next time I have chance to come across the mention of Shrinath and Jagannath temples.

How about the relative comparisons of the Mahayana and Theravada branches of Buddhism ? Shiites and Sunnis ?
No need to rush. Need to time to absorb.

Regards
Bansy

User avatar
aimée
PBK
Posts: 190
Joined: 06 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: Oxford

Post by aimée » 09 Jun 2006

Arjun, that is the exact extract I was thinking about, this makes the whole thing very exciting. I don't personally, imagine Baba now coming in the west, but if there would be enough effort and harmony and commitment amongst PBK, nothing is impossible!
Not only the history and scriptures of religions, but also the fairy tales, and even a lot of stories written now, present Gyan in a symbolic way. The prince having to cross the forest of thorns to be able to reach the sleeping beauty and wake her up, the story of Narnia, where the witch who calls herself a princess has spread winter over Narnia, and the lion is the one who is going to save the kingdom, and because more and more people have faith in him, spring is taking over winter etc. This is beautiful, that is for me a way to understand the extend to which this Gyan is imbibed in the world, this is the secret magic of our world.

clay
PBK
Posts: 16
Joined: 25 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: UK

Post by clay » 09 Jun 2006

There is a very clear explanation about climate change in the new documemtary film called " An Inconvenient Truth" by Al Gore. I saw it in New York last week. It explains Global Warming in very simple terms, and there is also a book that has the same title and covers the same material. The pictures are really very good.

Good wishes

Clay

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11513
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Post by arjun » 09 Jun 2006

Sister Bansy,
Om Shanti. You're thinking in the same direction as Baba. He has mentioned about all these divisions while explaining the Advance Course on the Kalpa Tree. Just as there are two dynasties among the Confluence-Aged Brahmins, the Sun and the Moon Dynasty, similarly there are divisions in each religion as mentioned by you.

You will find that in most cases one sect would pay more attention to the respective religious scripture and the other sect would pay more attention to the ostentations, i.e. pomp and show. You can understand which one tallies with BKs and which tallies with the PBKs.

So the foundation for the divisions in each religion is laid in the Confluence Age itself.
But all the divisions will give way to unity when the souls start shedding the various kinds of covers of the sanskars of various religions that they have travelled since the Copper Age and attain the true soul conscious stage. The rosary is the reminder/memorial of that unity amongst all the human souls.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun.

User avatar
bansy
Posts: 1643
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by bansy » 09 Jun 2006

Clay wrote:There is a very clear explanation about climate change in the new documemtary film called " An Inconvenient Truth" by Al Gore. I saw it in New York last week. It explains Global Warming in very simple terms, and there is also a book that has the same title and covers the same material. The pictures are really very good.
Good documentary. An excerpt is here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUiP6dqPynE

User avatar
aimée
PBK
Posts: 190
Joined: 06 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: Oxford

Post by aimée » 09 Jun 2006

Is the movie presented in the cinemas in UK? I'll advise it to everyone around, the excerpt is promising!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests