BKWSU breakaway groups

DEDICATED to Vishnu Party & all other Splinter Groups, viz., Krishna Party, InAdvance Party, PPPBKs & all others, who believe that they have transcended the BK & PBK theologies.
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celtiggyan
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BKWSU breakaway groups

Post by celtiggyan » 16 Dec 2006

There appears to be a lot of chips on shoulders in this discussion group. For some reason people always want somebody else to take responsibility if they fall by the wayside. I hear talk of making the Dadis responsible and so on. Well, I was brought up Church of Scotland - a religion which is quite likely to bore you to death in the right amounts. I don't see support groups for ex-members of the because or CoE for that matter or even Catholics. Are priests responsible for everyone in their flock? Maybe I should put this in a better way - religion is for followers but the BK 'religion' is built for leaders. You have to face up to any problems, not blame them on others. However bad ex-members make it out, it has a long long way to go to get anywhere near the problems that established religions cause.

It is unfortunate however that the BKs do appear to have gone a little commercial lately (from what I read here). I saw it coming in the late 90s when they had a London thing with Uri Gellar!

What on earth were they doing with him? (Nice guy though he is). I suspect the same thing will happen as does other religions - there will be a break-away party (assuming the world doesn't end first!). Does nobody else see the BKs for what they really are - a new religion. It will go through the same problems as all the rest. Look at Christianity - it used to be 'pure' and now it is institutionalised - though some believers remember the original message.

C.

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Ex-Members

Post by fluffy bunny » 16 Dec 2006

celtiggyan wrote:Uri Gellar! ... What on earth were they doing with him? (nice guy though he is). I suspect the same thing will happen as does other religions - there will be a break-away party (assuming the world doesn't end first!). Does nobody else see the BKs for what they really are - a new religion.
cough ... um ... regarding the break-away ... you have not made it to the PBK forum yet!?! And, don't worry. Gellar does not read this forum and so you can say what you like about the guy ... except the stuff about the CIA and Mossad because that registers us in the big computer in the sky as terrorists and then they let Brian Bacon know. ;-) But I personally do blame Gellar ever time my clocks breaks or forks and spoons go missing.

(We should start another thread to make comment about other religions).

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mr green
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Post by mr green » 16 Dec 2006

I disagree on one level celtic.

I think the level of psychological damage that the practise of Raj Yoga causes to its ex-members is greater than most religions. Of course, this damage is governed by the level to which the member was at in terms of practise.

Members of most religions just go on a Sunday and try and live the life. Whereas a surrendered BK will attempt to completely change his subconscious structure, to the point of thinking his family are lokik and not true family at all, that all members of the human race are Shudras only to be served and that any situation you are in is Baba's magic giving you another opportunity to serve.

This type of thing causes a lot of inner damage to someone who wants to leave and have a normal live again.

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celtiggyan
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Post by celtiggyan » 16 Dec 2006

I, of course, have heard of the PBKs but don't consider them to be much of a radical change. They still live a pure life - they just disagree on who the 'channeled' messages are from.

What I am talking about is perhaps an entirely new religion where people live a normal life ie get married etc but practice Raja Yoga as a form of relaxation ie they don't take it too seriously! Of course people do this already - turn up on a Sunday or various evenings, never go to class in the morning. All I can say to those who got into it 100% - well done, that takes a lot of will power. Was it ever meant to be taken seriously though?

I mean these are channeled messages - how reliable are they? Surely only as reliable as the channel itself! There are people who channel Space Aliens - would you take them seriously as well? Surely those who take it all to heart have only themselves to blame? There is no doubt the meditation gives peace of mind and the knowledge has many good points but that's all that can be read into it.

C.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 17 Dec 2006

celtiggyan wrote:I of course have heard of the PBKs but don't consider them to be much of a radical change. They still live a pure life - they just disagree on who the 'channeled' messages are from.
OK. Yes, we started to discuss this under a topic or concept of "BK Laity". And, of course, there are may already doing so, mostly within the Hindi community where it takes the place of going to the temple but perhaps too amongst otherwise ex-s and "BK-Lites", e.g. those that have been drawn in via the Positive Thinking of Self Management route. Please don't let my own sense of humour distract from the seriousness of such discussion.

It would be a difficult adoption without changes being made to the "scripture" unles they dispense with the "scripture", the Murli, and just depend on "sermons" taken from The Gospels, e.g. The Book of Mike or The Book of Nikki etc ... In a sense, may be that is what is already going on. The Murlis are being kept for the priest caste and becoming esoteric teachings; the watered down stuff being used for general public. But the meditation being kept for both.

Your point on the channelling is fair. For me, I am wondering if the source of the messages is similar or the same as sources other mediums channel. I think there is some kind of pattern according to age or culture, e.g. New Age cultures get modern entities (space aliens that talk about Atlantis), Hindu cultures get Hindu Gods (Shiva talking about Krishna and Kalpas), a few decades ago when the Far East used to be as alien as one could get, it was wise "Chinamen" or "Red Indian" guides that used to come through. That is to say that all these holy spooks come from some other dimension, all mean and want to help, all are limited by the programming of the medium and have to work with whatever open conections the recipients have?

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celtiggyan
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Post by celtiggyan » 17 Dec 2006

Yes, I agree with that. The 'computer' of the brain may well have a cycle hard-wired into it and the source has to use this as best it can! It would be interesting to know where the source of these messages really is though. Maybe they are from space? Where else is there except here on earth or outer space (in the material world at least).

Funny you should mention ancient Chinamen comming through. My Lokik sister (ex-London BK 1970s - original centre in Kilburn) used to visit such a medium that had a Chinese 'master'. She asked it what he thought of the BKs. It replied that it was a good teaching and that it came from the outer arm of a spiral galaxy! It also said that the cycle was a cycle of sorts but more of a spiral than cycle, i.e. every so many years the 'vibration' level goes up a notch!!

C.

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mr green
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Post by mr green » 17 Dec 2006

I agree we only have ourselves to blame and that is a hard pill to swallow for an ex- surrendered member :lol: , but I think the point still stands that it is easier to get into dangerous water at the BKs than most religions. I would put them more on a par with the Moonies or Scientologists as the BK practise does directly affect practical aspects of your life, whereas most religions just involve being preached at then going home :lol:.

What you have to remember is most who go in too deep are people who at that point of their lives were vulnerable and needy, so to such people the BKs do pose a danger to their later lives.

I agree about the medium thing, the last few times I went to Madubhan I had absolutely no other feeling than that on the stage was just a poor deluded old Indian woman talking in a whispery voice, completely convinced God was inside her.

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Post by celticgyan » 17 Dec 2006

I suppose if you become a Nun or Monk there are stages you go through and I can see similarities here. They would ask serious questions when you are a novice to make sure you can handle it when you take your vows. Of course, there are no vows with the B.K or stages you go through.

C.

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Re: Ex-Members

Post by tinydot » 23 Dec 2006

celtiggyan wrote:What on earth were they doing with him? (Nice guy though he is) ...
That guy has been a business liar for a long time. Ask James Randi. From this mistake, we can have some good opinions about BKs.
  • 1. They are still humans who make stupid mistakes.
    2. P.R. is the main agenda.
    3. combination of 1 and 2
    4. They sincerely want to do good service. But hello! They cannot really give good service when a deceptive personality is on stage. The problem here is being uninformed of what really is someone up to, and giving in to so much P.R. That brings again to opinion #1.

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Re: Ex-Members

Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Dec 2006

tinydot wrote:That guy has been a business liar for a long time. Ask James Randi. From this mistake, we can have some good opinions about BKs.
  • 5. Like attracts like ... birds of a feather etc.

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celtiggyan
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Post by celtiggyan » 25 Dec 2006

I am not so sure I would like to ask Randi anything, I may not get a straight answer. Still, he's wysiwyg all right but his intellect is closed and unimaginative.

C.

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Post by tinydot » 25 Dec 2006

celtiggyan wrote:I am not so sure I would like to ask Randi anything, I may not get a straight answer.Still, he's wysiwyg all right but his intellect is closed and unimaginative.
I think he is still a good person even though he is quite commercialized. What he is trying to accomplish is to debunk those Charlatans.

I think one time, he was humble enough to accept there might be something science has missed when they were conducting that "homeopathic thing". Luckily, he was able to devise an experiment that invalidated the original positive result that was in favor of homeopathy.

But I agree, he's intellect is quite closed. That is his own belief. And perhaps, that is how he was able to come up with his foundation for those who share similar beliefs.

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Post by sparkal » 09 Jan 2007

Geller forgiving himself after taking the dirty money from telling the big boys where to find oil and minerals in Africa stinks. It will take more than growing a seed in your hand to fool me. I thought it was a bad career move by the BKs to get involved with him.

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Damage

Post by proy » 09 Feb 2007

Mr Green wrote:I think the level of psychological damage that the practise of Raj Yoga causes to its ex-members is greater than most religions. Members of most religions just go on a Sunday and try and live the life. Whereas a surrendered BK will attempt to completely change his subconscious structure, to the point of thinking his family are lokik and not true family at all, that all members of the human race are Shudras only to be served and that any situation you are in is Baba's magic giving you another opportunity to serve.This type of thing causes a lot of inner damage to someone who wants to leave and have a normal live again.
This really is the big difference between the BKs and most other followers of religions. It may be different in India where there is a BK laity, but in the west it is very difficult for ex-BKs to get back to living a normal life. Some can do it more easily than others. Most of us find it a strain. Many of us are in denial. There is the psychological and the psychic damage that is done, as well as people losing their money and their friends and family. Do the Roman Catholics ask you to stop eating at your parents' house? I think not.

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Post by yudhishtira » 01 Mar 2007

Given that, from what I gather, the Maryadas of the PBKs have some similarities to the BKs; do people who leave the PBKs go through similar reactions to ex-BKs? I am just wondering as I do not see any "ex-PBKs" posting here ...

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