BKWSU breakaway groups

DEDICATED to Vishnu Party & all other Splinter Groups, viz., Krishna Party, InAdvance Party, PPPBKs & all others, who believe that they have transcended the BK & PBK theologies.
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john
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Post by john » 01 Mar 2007

Yudhishtira wrote:Given that, from what I gather, the Maryadas of the PBKs have some similarities to the BKs; do people who leave the PBKs go through similar reactions to ex-BKs? I am just wondering as I do not see any "ex-PBKs" posting here ...
That's a good point.

I think PBK is still a very small organisation and practically non existant outside of India in terms of numbers. ex-PBKs tend to join or form splinter groups, one of which is the Vishnu Party, which posts in a thread in the commonroom. I think there is also a Krishna Party.

I am sure ArjunBhai or Sivasena will know of most of the groups and probably some of the members in them.

Perhaps they would give a list of the splinter groups they know of?

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 01 Mar 2007

John wrote:I am sure ArjunBhai or Sivasena will know of most of the groups and probably some of the members in them. Perhaps they would give a list of the splinter groups they know of?
I think I have given the list on many occasions, but it is hard to locate the posts, so briefly the splinter PBK groups known to me are as follows:
  • 1. Vishnu Party headed by Shri Dashrath Patel and Smt. Sushma mata, both ex-PBKs located at Ahmedabad.
    2. A group headed by ex-PBK Shri Nagraj of Hyderabad which is a splinter group of Vishnu Party, but most of its members are also ex-PBKs.
    3. A group headed by Shri Satish Mehta, ex-PBK located at Mumbai.
    4. A group headed by Shri Ramakant, ex-PBK, Aurangabad.
    5. Another group headed by Shri Murty, ex-PBK of Bangalore.
I do not know much in detail about their philosophies, especially the last three ones as they are very recent off-shoots.
Yudhishtira wrote:do people who leave the PBKs go through similar reactions to ex-BKs?
Can you please be a bit more clear?
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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yudhishtira
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Post by yudhishtira » 01 Mar 2007

Well, it seems to me that ex-BKs on this forum have detailed a large range of responses , emotional issues, etc that they have gone through before and after leaving the BKs. As I do not class myself in this category, I wouldnt like to insult anyone by generalising, but as youve been here longer than me, you probably have noticed people discussing these things on the Newcomers and ex-BK forums.

But I think it is interesting that you say that ex-PBKs join/start other spiritual groups, whereas western ex BKs (correct me if I am wrong) tend to steer clear of group involvement after leaving the BK and have a "normal" life. I wonder if this is due to cultural differences between India and the west; that for India, spiritual following is the "norm" whereas in the west it is not?

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bansy
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Post by bansy » 01 Mar 2007

whereas western ex BKs (correct me if I am wrong) tend to steer clear of group involvement after leaving the BK. I wonder if this is due to cultural differences between India and the west; that for India, spiritual following is the "norm" whereas in the west it is not?
Could be. Also, I think population size and population demographics has something to do with the size of groups.

If the figures are correct and the 33 crores is needed, then quite of few of that number comes from the subcontinent compared to the rest of the world.

So if a BK or PBK sets up a splinter group, there could be many in India to catch from, but if you are in the west, you could be left in relative solitude. Though the reson for this would be, in accordance to Gyan, the Brahmin karmic accounts per country.

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yudhishtira
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Post by yudhishtira » 02 Mar 2007

I get what you are saying bansy, but I am wondering how many western based ex-BKs would have a desire to set up such a group; or whether on the whole they would feel that they are well enough out of such groups.

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 02 Mar 2007

Yudhishtira wrote:I get what you are saying bansy, but I am wondering how many western based ex-BKs would have a desire to set up such a group; or whether on the whole they would feel that they are well enough out of such groups.
It certainly has happened. I know of at least one such group but have no idea of how it runs. And, of course, there was the famous incident of Heidi Fittkau-Garthe and the Isis Holistic Centre or Atma Center. I wonder what the background to Heide leaving the BKWSU was as we have discussed how privileged a place she was given by Janki, Jayanti and others.

I also wonder what goes on where two BKs go off and get married and live together like Suman and Surya [?] in Germany. Do they continue on with some of the teachings and practises? Have they divorced the Father or the Holy Spook, or just the organization? I hope that one day they find their way here to discuss.

Do the Kirpalani Klan have the monoply on God and his teachings ... or are they just the taxmen that like collecting their dues on them?

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joel
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Post by joel » 02 Mar 2007

ex-l wrote:I also wonder what goes on where two BKs go off and get married and live together like Suman and Surya [?] in Germany.
I know Suman and Surya, have visited them in Frankfurt. They did not go off together, are not married, do not live together.

Regarding your question of what two BKs do when they go off together: whatever they want. Probably you will find the whole spectrum of relationships from totally brother-sister BKs continuing to read Murlis and give drishti to each other, some still having good relationship with a center, to others who become 'ordinary' couples taking they own guidance for the direction and activities of their lives.

Your story, too, will no doubt continue to enrichen under your own (perhaps at times subconscious) direction. How do you feel about the community that has developed around brahmakumaris.info??

Regards,

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 02 Mar 2007

joel wrote:I know Suman and Surya, have visited them in Frankfurt. They did not go off together, are not married, do not live together.
Sorry, I was thinking of Enrique and ... Isabel (?) of Spain. But may be they are not married either and just partnered up.

Suman and Surya are the ones who run a cafe or something?

Anyway, details rather than theory if you know, please ... and it would be great if they could drop by and lay down their little bit of the history.

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alladin
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enough is enough

Post by alladin » 03 Mar 2007

May be double foreigners are very serious, over sensitive and get very emotionally involved. So, once they had it, they don't want to hear about it, they just try to recover and go back to a "normal" life. Who has the energy left to create a splinter group after having been used and vampirized? Who wants to give it a try and check another sect out? I wonder how many ex-BKs get trapped in alcool or heavy drugs after such hurting deceptions.

About Suman (sending her good vibes, wherever she is): I never forget a point she gave i a class, not long before leaving the role: she said that we should not be cynical when we see someone suffer because of our actions, we shoul instead take full responsability for that.

Misused Gyan is such that a mislead mind can always find excuses: you kick someone and don't repent because, well the other soul has "chosen" to take sorrow!! Nonsensical, but anything goes ...

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Mar 2007

joel wrote:How do you feel about the community that has developed around brahmakumaris.info?
A part of me is cautiously conscious and concerned, that I/we could well be being used by other spiritual influences (by which I included not just spooks but collective consciousness and "egregores" (to hark back to XBKChat). Or I could well be being sucked back into the realms of BK Raja Yoga through the back passageway. Hindu Bhakti is full of the stories of demons that become more enlightened than sages by hating or fight with Krishna or some other God. Ditto by demons serving some demi-god.

Those spiritual influences could be Team BapDada needing someone to balance off the excesses of the BKWSU, it could be Team Dixit needing some backup against the excesses of the BKWSU ... or it could be some other higher influences all together, attempting to put some light on the whole show.

Who knows? I do not know who is directing me, this show or where. I am just a little molecule bobbing up and down in some great cosmic soup. Beyond the Forum Guidelines and FAQs, do we have a religion here? At least we are not taking money off people.

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yudhishtira
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Post by yudhishtira » 06 Mar 2007

ex-l wrote:A part of me is cautiously conscious and concerned, that I/we could well be being used by other spiritual influences (by which I included not just spooks but collective consciousness and "egregores" (to hark back to XBKChat).
ex-l , I am wondering, with reference to my own experiences, whether a side affect of having had a bruising spiritual experience is that we are more wary of trusting our own hearts/intuitive good judgment, than we were previously. I went through a period of distrusting even my friend's motives and being kind of paranoid. Its just recently that I am learning to trust myself again and have had some confirmatory experiences that make me feel that I am moving in positive direction.

My own feeling is that whilst I understand that this site is primarily to support those who have left or who have friends or relatives they are concerned about, it has made me think deeply about my own applied spirituality, and the truth of Gyan. I don't feel I am being manipulated. I am familiar enough with that to know what its like. No one can alter my beliefs apart from me and no one can use me unless I give them permission to. Frankly, I think a lot of you who consider yourself "ex", think more deeply about Gyan than some of those still in there and going through the motions.

I am not sure what you mean by "egregores" ; could you explain?

freefall
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Post by freefall » 06 Mar 2007

ex-l wrote:Hindu Bhakti is full of the stories of demons that become more enlightened than sages by hating or fight with Krishna or some other God. Ditto by demons serving some demi-god.
Yes. Shishupal hated Krishna so badly that every waking moment of his life he could not think of anything but Krishna. The story goes that because of his unbroken meditation on Krishna, lord had no choice but to grant him liberation.

Many ex-BKs on this forum are similary are consumed with every minute detail of Gyan. Because of their uniterrupted churning of Gyan, ShivBaba will have no choice but to grant them inheritence. :wink:

sakshi delhi
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Post by sakshi delhi » 19 Apr 2007

Param Shanti,

as I believe, there are 35 grop (Gods) in our Brahmin family but ultimately they prove to ourself only the existance of God. I think the reason for this is that there is not enough Gyan given in by the BKs. That is why we always feel bad and go elsewhere.

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bro neo
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Post by bro neo » 23 Apr 2007

celtiggyan wrote: For some reason people always want somebody else to take responsibility if they fall by the wayside. ...You have to face up to any problems, not blame them on others.
I am inevitably responsible for my own actions, is a truth very hard to actualize. A pill very hard to swallow. But it is a very liberating truth, as all truth should be. Responsibility is a quality that separates leaders from followers.
mr green wrote:I think the level of psychological damage that the practice of Raj Yoga causes to its ex-members is greater than most religions. Of course, this damage is governed by the level to which the member was at in terms of practice ... Whereas a surrendered BK will attempt to completely change his subconscious structure ...
Yes, when we do Raja Yoga meditation in accordance with the Sakar and Avyakat Murlis, it is very, very, very powerful hypnosis. Going into altered states, repetition of new thought patterns and changing core beliefs, so much repression of self and personal experience.
joel wrote:How do you feel about the community that has developed around brahmakumaris.info?
I feel good about it. I strongly believe humans are hardwired to value social relationships very highly. Leaving the BKWSU for me was about finding my truth in reality, even if it did lead me back to BKWSU. That felt bad. Finding brahmakumaris.info feels excellent because I, again, feel I have a social group that I can identify with. This is a very nice feeling.

I have also learned to see both sides of the picture though. This is not some perfect, ideal, all loving social community. As much as I would love to believe that this is, or that in fact there is even such a thing in the real world the fact of the matter is all social groups are much more like American Idol, then the Brady Bunch.

From the Why did you join the BKWSU? topic.
ex-l wrote: ... we can start our own cult.
I like this idea. Can’t really seem to conceive a powerful enough drive or motivation to work for it though, except large quantitys of money. It would be really cool though. The ex-BK group-cult. Or maybe we could call it The Inner Circle, seekers of higher truth. Huh? Nice? :)

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bansy
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Post by bansy » 26 May 2007

This quote was from another thread:
new world wrote:Really I don't belong to any of these parties - BK, PBK. PPBK (of Satish Mehta, Mumbai), Vishnu Party (Ahmedabad), inadvance party (of Ramakant, Aurangabad) or Navin Modi's party (Ahmedabad). I've tired of these parties.
Hi new world,

Could you share and give a brief outline of;
  • the PPBKs
    Inadvance Party and
    the Navin Modi's Party?
These have not been covered in this forum.

I am personally not interested in minute details. Just how they came to be and formed, and broke away from BKs. What they now generally believe in; Shiva, another Chariot, Gyan ...

Thanks.

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