BKWSU breakaway groups

DEDICATED to Vishnu Party & all other Splinter Groups, viz., Krishna Party, InAdvance Party, PPPBKs & all others, who believe that they have transcended the BK & PBK theologies.
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in the night
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Post by in the night » 26 May 2007

Hello new world,

I am a new participant in this forum but I have been reading over it for a long time now. I think "bansy" has raised a very interesting question here. According to a previous post from "arjuna" most of these groups are started by ex-PBKs, is that so? If you know them and have information about them, i would also like to know more about them.

Thank you in advance and hope that you will assist us in our search for the whole picture. I understand that you are not interested any longer in these groups but please make an effort and share what you know with us. To tell you the truth, I also feel I am part of the "I am not sure group", as you describe yourself.

Also, I know your desire to understand the PBK explanation as to the true first incarnation of Shiva. None of the answers they have given you so far fulfills me.

Thanks again and look forward to your post.

Love,

in the night

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BKs branching out

Post by sparkal » 29 May 2007

First, we should ascertain that there is such a thing as "the BKs". If there is not, then there can be no such thing as break away/ splinter groups.

The collective of individuals called "the BKs" does not exist (OK, it has been stated already, but cannot be stated often enough). What does exist is a collective of individuals who should take responsibility for their actions rather than hide behind the Bk label, or have the Bk label stuck on them.

The Supreme Soul comes and gives the inheritance to all souls, as individuals, and collectively. The collective is the world spiritual family. All six? billion (and rising?). To see "the BKs" as your spiritual family is narrow minded and short sighted, but OK for so long. God does not see it this way. We are being asked to see things God's way. God sees one world family (my opinion).

So, some BKs may go on to become part of other spiritual paths even, or none and it is OK. The Seed becomes the trunk becomes the branches ... To see the Tree expand and branch should not be seen as negative or failure, the Tree needs to branch to collect light and offer newness and refuge to other living things as well as bear fruits of its own. Or, do we fear change?

Trees are continually changing. It is natural> What about us? I refer to either all six billion, or the individual, there is no in between in real terms.

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abrahma kumar
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Re: BKs branching out

Post by abrahma kumar » 29 May 2007

sparkal wrote:First, we should ascertain that there is such a thing as "the BKs". If there is not, then there can be no such thing as break away/ splinter groups. The collective of individuals called "the BKs" does not exist (OK it has been stated already, but cannot be stated often enough). What does exist is a collective of individuals who should take responsibility for their actions rather than hide behind the BK label, or have the BK label stuck on them.
These words reflect my dilemna accurately. And if the collective cannot or doesn't want to take responsibility, then why should i be expected to show any allegiance to them? They claim to have it all, so where is the transparency? And how that BK label sticks in my craw sometimes; torn between wanting to get as far away from them as possible and then some; at other times wanting to stay in touch with the teachings and souls who - myself included - took and continue to take benefit from all that stuff.

But maybe it is time to mould a BK life of my own. A life that I will not disturb inspite of being looked down upon by the BKs from their lofty perches. I never vied with anyone for any BK status whilst inside and so the branch I am stepping out onto is the one that I claim as being moulded according to my very own shoe size.

Maybe one day we will have a gathering of the ex-tribe members. Each in his/her own oneness, gathered together to celebrate that and their love for One.

Welcome back sparkal.

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in the night
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Post by in the night » 30 May 2007

Its so great to be here in my own place sharing with you all ...!! :D

I understand the basics of any true spiritual knowledge; "humanity as one family". And that can become a very deep and beneficial emotion when applied to every day life. We all want, need, fear and even believe on the SAME THING ... come-on, let's look deep into our hearts!! ... Beliefs are only temporary and in accordance to our own personal circumstances. As John lennon mentioned in a really nice rythm: "all we need is love.. love .. love ..." :wink:.

Anyways. I just wanted and need us to become centered in the topic here in question. What do these "splinter" gatherings (groups) have to offer to anyone wanting to be a true and "A" student? In my own personal experience, many BKs and ex-BKs have never had dinner with PBK Virendra Dev Dixit and do not imagine what they are missing. What I mean to say is that limits are against "Shrimat" (meaning; directions of god upon ALL "Murlis").

So kindly please, if "new world" or anyone out there wishes to share his/her own experiences in any of these so called "splinter" groups, I am all ears and even willing to a multi-million blessing reward (maybe just because it'll save me a trip to India which I cannot afford just now).

Thank you and hope that you will fly with me in this post.

in the night

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What will happen to the splinter groups

Post by abrahma kumar » 30 May 2007

celtiggyan wrote:I suspect the same thing will happen as does other religions - there will be a break-away party (assuming the world doesn't end first!). Does nobody else see the BKs for what they really are - a new religion. It will go through the same problems as all the rest. Look at Christianity - it used to be 'pure' and now it is institutionalised - though some believers remember the original message.
Hi in the night, in response to your reminder i quote celtic Gyan above. This is what i believe. Just as we souls go through the cycle so too i believe that the institutions themselves go through a cycle or in fact several phases on a wheel (reel) of existence.

This opinion puts a lid on any curiosity I may be reasonably expected to have about these institutions. I describe the BASIC thing we all, and our respective organisations, have in common as a "need to explore the concept/reality of the Supreme Being (aka God)". So imstead of being overly curious i remain openly observant. All tendency to 'believe' suspended till i sort out for myself what it is that I believe.

I happen to agree when voice your understanding that:
the basics of any true spiritual knowledge is: "humanity as one family".

And i second your opinion that this
can become a very deep and beneficial emotion when applied to every day life]
'Tis good to have you around.

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Post by paulkershaw » 30 May 2007

yudhishtira wrote:I get what you are saying bansy, but I am wondering how many western based ex-BKs would have a desire to set up such a group; or whether on the whole they would feel that they are well enough out of such groups.
Just as a by the way, I facilitate 'my' own meditation group here in Johannesburg, but its spiritually based and not run on Bk or PBk principles.

Perhaps there are many more western ex-BKs (noting there don't seem to many western ex-PBKs!) doing so but not mentioning it herein. I think they may prefer to call them 'healing circles' or similar instead of meditation groups ...

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in the night
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Post by in the night » 30 May 2007

celtiggyan wrote:I suspect the same thing will happen as does other religions - there will be a break-away party (assuming the world doesn't end first!). Does nobody else see the BKs for what they really are - a new religion. It will go through the same problems as all the rest. Look at Christianity - it used to be 'pure' and now it is institutionalised - though some believers remember the original message.
Hi there "abrahma kumar", and all of you following this topic..

A very valuable point-of-view in regards to the development of the original BK or "Om Mandali". Indeed.

Nevertheless, there is something comon to most of the spiritual paths out there and in the very common sense, "the Confluence Age"; as described by BKs. This century and the last 40 years in particular have been a total world spiritual revolution in so many proven ways. Just need to look around and see how society is opening the pandora box and allowing true emotions and happenings to be at least discussed upon. Main religions which just had ruled for centuries based on rituals, fear and greed are now being confronted by many true-seeking spiritual groups, psychologits, plain open hearted thinkers, the mayan calendar, ect.

So, let's just assume that, as one electronic music song says, ..."we are living in mysterious times" (sorry, but cannot remember the author). Or let's just think that freedom of speech is changing our ways and behavioural patterns.

I will get to the point, what if these splinter groups are just expanding BK knowledge? And doesn't it seem contradictory that the leaders of the BK are not willing to share openly any, for as ridiculous as they may be, other points-of-view concerning their "knowledge"???

Even the "Murlis" clearly state so often that "baba" will keep relating new points. Where are those need points in BKWSU?. I hope it's not just the "management training course"!! :lol:.

Love, in the night

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Post by abrahma kumar » 30 May 2007

in the night wrote:Even the "Murlis" clearly state so often that "Baba" will keep relating new points. Where are those new points in BKWSU?. I hope it's not just the "management trainning course"!!
If i remember correctly it was often the case that the "new points" version of Baba's seemed to come prior to or after a reminder that we ought not to miss Murli class. do not we always say that as the intellect becomes more and more refined the soul is able to catch deeper meanings from the Murli points? And I am sure that there are some sections that we do not ever register till a couple of readings. And the Murli repitition (every how many years?) does come in handy if one was asleep last time around it was read?

Excepting for the ongoing BapDada Murli Season phenomena, the versions have all been spoken. We are being fed the Sakar revision course Murlis so somewhere there is a big vault of Murlis (originals too, I hope) that scholars may be able to study one day. Anyway, I enjoy studying the Murli as part of my self-improvement regime. So I am not knocking them.

As for the Management Training course, why not take a look at the Common Room topic: BKWSU, the business, money and selling Gyan, which ought to be good for a chuckle or two in case you hadn't seen it before.

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Post by zhuk » 30 May 2007

celticgyan wrote:I suspect the same thing will happen as does other religions - there will be a break-away party (assuming the world doesn't end first!). Does nobody else see the BKs for what they really are - a new religion. It will go through the same problems as all the rest. Look at Christianity - it used to be 'pure' and now it is institutionalised - though some believers remember the original message.
I agree its inevitable. Like every religion that ever existed. The only trouble with that, is that being the "only true religion" this wasn't supposed to happen with the BKs. I remember clearly being told that by assorted SS :?. No wonder the PBKs are despised enough to be physically attacked ...

Also, the initial reassurance that you could still be a Christian (or whatever your original 'native' religion was) and be a BK too ... well, that doesn't last past the 7 Day Course :lol:.

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Re: BKs branching out

Post by paulkershaw » 30 May 2007

Abek wrote:But maybe it is time to mould a BK life of my own.
The problem is that when we listen to someone who say that there's no such thing as evolution, then we ourselves do not evolve either. So much for listening to the mantra "when we change - the world changes" - I think that you and so many other brave members of this forum are really bringing change!

Keep going forward and all will be well. ~p~

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Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Jul 2007

zhuk wrote:I agree its inevitable. Like every religion that ever existed. The only trouble with that, is that being the "only true religion" this wasn't supposed to happen with the BKs. I remember clearly being told that by assorted SS :?. No wonder the PBKs are despised enough to be physically attacked ...
I can confirm, in a different continent and a different decade, I was also told the same and taught to teach the same.

The Brahma Kumaris were never meant to split. That is what differentiated it from all other cults and religions. But, then, I think that we have found out that they had already split, and it been written out of their history, in the late 1930s/early 40s.

This is one thing this forum can do ... document their modus operandi, over decades and all over the world. They are going to have to give up their lies.

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Navin Modi's group

Post by fluffy bunny » 09 Nov 2007

Does Navin Modi's group have a formal name, e.g. Krishna Party? Or is he a one man band?

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Re: BKWSU breakaway groups

Post by Narsatya » 27 Jan 2016

VCD413 – Page 8 of 12

And these small drops which are emerging now are proving themselves to be God. What? Are they emerging now or not? (Someone said - they are emerging) And nobody calls himself lesser than Vishnu. There is a place called Vidhuna near Farrukhabad. Village Vidhuna.....They came and underwent the nine days bhatti at Kampil and after returning to their place they declared – We are the souls of Ram and Sita. My wife is Sita, I am Ram. This role of Ram & Sita, i.e. Vishnu is ours. They prepare a lot of parties and take them to Mount Abu. It is getting a lot of publicity in Agra. (Mataji asked - Where did they undergo the bhatti?) Hm? (Where did they undergo the bhatti?) At Kampil. (Mataji said - Yes, look) From that party of Vidhuna another one emerged. The daughter of a big officer at Mathura has recently become a Brahmakumari. So he entered into a Court Marriage with her. After the Court Marriage, he was so intoxicated; he was in the intoxication of Narayani. And he wears a crown, wears yellow clothes, and even now they play jhaanjh, mridang, majeera (musical instruments) and the mothers gather there and they take busloads of parties to Mount Abu. Even they are sitting as Lakshmi-Narayan. That is a part of Vishnu. Everyone in the Advance Party knows Dashrath Patel. He too proved himself to be a Vishnu. How did he prove? When the work of Advance Party was going on in Delhi, at Vijayvihar, when the building was being constructed, a mother emerged in advance (party) from the basic knowledge. What? Sushma mata, a mother of six children. And after obtaining the advance knowledge, she left her household. Baba never teaches like this. Baba says - live in the household. If you break your own household, then how will you create the temple of Lakshmi-Narayan? So she left her husband. She did not listen to her husband. She did not listen to her family members and started following the advance knowledge vigorously. She became very intoxicated. What happened subsequently? Every soul is pure (satopradhaan) initially. Then? It also becomes semi-pure (rajopradhaan) and impure (tamopradhaan). Then her intellect got spoilt to such an extent that she started interacting and sitting more with Dasharth Patel. And there came a time when she went to Ahmedabad and took the position of Narayani. Their books are getting printed. At the back of the books, the picture of Jagdamba (World Mother), Bharat Mata (Mother India) has been printed. The entire group gathering there is from the Advance Party itself. (Someone said - it is not happening now) Even now some are going there. Their children are taking birth even now; someone among them is becoming Krishna. There is one Navin Modi from Ahmedabad. He is proving himself to be Krishna. He has published his picture too. The appearance of face in that is almost like Krishna itself. And crown etc. has been shown in that. He is calling himself Krishna. Then, just now, a party has emerged here at Mumbai. Advance Party had opened a center at Vasai. In that center, the advance knowledge that was given in that center, there were two such souls, who were very close friends of the person who had given the building. The person, who had given the building was not so clever in knowledge, but he was truthful from his heart. But he was taught such a lesson that he started acting in an opposite manner. Meaning, he started making enquiries about the Brahmakumaris who were accomodated there, and he started to issue orders to them. He started saying - Look, Ravindra Bhai lives in his house. He has given his house as well. So even I will live in this house and I will issue orders as well. When Baba is not there, I will sit as Baba. Now this is not going to be allowed here. So that building was vacated. And the Guru, who used to teach him lessons, has assumed the role of Vishnu at present. He took the entire advance knowledge from there itself. From where? From Kampil. Now they started publishing fat books. In that, the entire knowledge, all the points are the same. The same points of Advance Party. But they have fooled the people by twisting their meanings in such a way that people listen a little; in that half of the content is of defamation. Defamation means personal defamation. That Vishnu emerged. Aurangabad vanished completely from the Advance Party. Half of Ahmadnagar got finished. Now an attack is taking place on Nagpur. The situation of Nagpur is such that the virgins who surrendered in the Advance Party, their parents are threatening that - return our daughters, otherwise we will file a case in the court. They themselves went and surrendered them. Baba says - this is the last paper. When the last paper (i.e. examination) takes place, then will the teacher examine or not? The knowledge that you have heard so far is such a vast knowledge, for which Baba says - make the ocean into ink. And make the jungle into pens, still this knowledge is not going to finish. So, in spite of obtaining such a vast knowledge, such a highest knowledge, the intellect has become such that – they donate the daughter (virgin) and after donating, take her back and and become a chandaal(cremator) (in literal sense it refers to a section of persons belonging to the lowermost caste among Hindus who prepare the funeral pyre). If someone donates and then takes it back, then what does he become? He becomes a cremator. A virgin is called a gem. Such a great donation and after doing that they spoil the life of that virgin. The knowledge has fitted into the intellect of that virgin. Now by chance that virgin is a minor. So what is the Government rule? The worldly parents of a minor virgin have rights over her. Even though they have surrendered or written anything, they can take back their daughter whenever they wish. Even if they have got her married, that marriage is also invalid because a daughter aged less than 18 years should not be got married. Those parents can bring back their daughter from wherever they have got her married. And now, now the situation has become like this. It is not that Vishnus are getting ready only in the central India (or that) Vishnus are getting ready only from Ahmedabad to its south in Mumbai. No. One has emerged from Haryana, in Kaithal. He is calling himself Shankarji, Vishnuji. He is married. He is calling himself Krishna. The soul of Brahma enters into me. One has emerged in South India. He is calling himself Vishnu. And his influence has been so great that he has influenced the head, the caretaker of the Advance Party at Hyderabad. Her intellect has been turned completely. To whatever extent you may explain to her, but she does not accept that it is not the role of Vishnu. Right now it is the role of Vishnu in South India. This is the situation. Such an expansive knowledge and what has become the situation of the seekers of knowledge? Well, there cannot be so many Gods. Will there be so many Gods? It is said, no, the hidden rostum gets revealed in the end. Had he been God, then would he have to rub his nose for so many days that he could not prepare the rosary yet? When Dashrath Patel declared himself to be Vishnu first of all, then he said, he declared - we will prepare the rosary within 6 months. The rosary is still being prepared. One complete list was printed and it came. The one that became God(in this case) did not reveal himself. He prepared the entire list of 108 and has sent it. Who the 12 beads of the Sun Dynasty are, who the 12 beads of the Moon Dynasty are, who the 12 beads of the Islam Dynasty are and who the 12 beads of the Aryasamajis are. They sent the book to the head office at Delhi. It was sent to all the mini-Madhubans. It was sent to the other members of the Advance Party as well. And among the names that have been published, many are such greedy ones that they saw, oh! Is it so that our number has been fixed? That is all. They got intoxicated. They are giving money - get it published. The rosary of 108 got prepared so easily. There is no effort involved at all. (Someone asked - Baba, why are these people breaking the Advance Party? Why don't they wean away the BKs?) Arey! Again it is same as the Brahmakumaris. Even they say - why are you breaking (i.e. weaning away) only our Brahmakumar-kumaris? Hm? Why do you wean away only our Brahmakumarkumaris? The world is lying open, the world of 500/700 crores, why don't you go there and die!? Whatever has happened in the basic should also take place among the seed-like souls.

(SHOULD NOT THIS BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND - WHATEVER IS IN THE SEED SHOULD BE REFLECTED IN THE ROOTS, THEN IN THE TRUNK, THEN IN THE BRANCHES, THEN IN THE SUB-BRANCHES, ETC. ??? SECONDLY, IS THERE ANYTHING SURPRISING WHEN THOSE WHO BECAME 'CHANDALS' BY BECOMING PBKs BEGIN TO GRADUALLY DEMONSTRATE THEIR TRUE COLOURS??? - SAT)

http://www.PBKs.info/Website%20written% ... 13-pbk.pdf

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Re: BKWSU breakaway groups

Post by mbbhat » 27 Jan 2016

Narsatya wrote:VCD* – Page 8 of 12
Whatever has happened in the basic should also take place among the seed-like souls.
As per AIVV, the Murli point spoken in 1966 about "destruction in 10 years" (which points to 1976)- it was spoken 10 years in advance. So, about coming of these splinter groups- has AIVV said, in advance?

What title does AIVV give to these splinter groups and/or seed-like souls? PBKs believe moving from BKWSU to AIVV is like a advance step, so, moving from AIVV to another splinter group - is that also another further advance step?

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Re: BKWSU breakaway groups

Post by Narsatya » 28 Jan 2016

Yes, according to Advance Knowledge [AK is nothing but pure form of Basic Knowledge(BK)], way-up is New Gathering(Naya Sangatan) - foundation of 'New House' like World, rudra mala, vijaymala.

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