Bridge between Shankar Party and Vishnu Party

DEDICATED to Vishnu Party & all other Splinter Groups, viz., Krishna Party, InAdvance Party, PPPBKs & all others, who believe that they have transcended the BK & PBK theologies.
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john
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Post by john » 20 Aug 2007

new knowledge wrote:So the final base of Vishnu Party is direct Shrimat received by sitting before the Supreme Father face to face. Printed Murlis & Ved-Shashras are not Shrimat.[/color]
OK, thank you for your explanation.
But to interprete Godly knowledge easily, references are taken from both Murlis & Ved-Shashras. As we have the understanding of Murlis & Ved-Shashras, so the Supreme Father also refers Murlis & Ved-Shashras while delivering Murlis.
Yes I understand, that's why I think Murlis should be available, if they are to be a reference point then the reference material needs to be available for all to refer to.

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Post by new knowledge » 20 Aug 2007

Bro John please read my previous article. I've edited it. Spelling mistake due to use of moblie phone & my low eye-sight. I've replaced the word 'Murli' by 'Shrimat'. Thanks

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Post by fluffy bunny » 20 Aug 2007

new ... I asked a question seriously. How and when did Dashrath Patel realise he was God the Creator? What was his experience?

I will be honest with you. I do not put much weight on intellectual equations. They are simple enough to jiggle about with a little knowledge from here or there. Most "avatars" have some sort of awakening, what was his?

For me it is too incredible that one person can wake up one day and suddenly believe that he is God. Could it just not be a reaction of an education Hindu falling away from BK Knowledge and back onto traditional Shastras under some spiritual or psychic influence. I am concerned for any young children they might have growing up and living with "God" as a mother and Father.

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Post by new knowledge » 20 Aug 2007

My dear bro ex-l, Bapuji Dashrath Patel from His childhood have some divine visions from time to time & He was aware that He is extra-ordinary. But it was on 6th January 1997, that He had Vision of His own Vishwa-Rup, i.e. His divine form which occupied the whole cosmos described in ShrimadBhagwad Gita (VishwaRupDarshan Yoga). And He instrospected Himself & realised that He is the Supreme. Also Avyakt Vanis during that period supported that issue. I'll quote that Avyakt Vani points with dates. Please give me time for more details.

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Post by john » 20 Aug 2007

new knowledge wrote:My dear bro ex-l, Bapuji Dashrath Patel from His childhood have some divine visions from time to time & He was aware that He is extra-ordinary. But it was on 6th January 1997, that He had Vision of His own Vishwa-Rup, i.e. His divine form which occupied the whole cosmos described in ShrimadBhagwad Gita (VishwaRupDarshan Yoga). And He instrospected Himself & realised that He is the Supreme. Also Avyakt Vanis during that period supported that issue. I'll quote that Avyakt Vani points with dates. Please give me time for more details.
Surely God would always know he was God.

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Post by new knowledge » 20 Aug 2007

john wrote:Surely God would always know he was God.
No my bro John. For only one birth in the form Bapuji, God (Dashrath Patel) plays role in the corporeal world as a corporeal being. He also takes corporeal body. Then due to the limitations of the gross body, He temporarily forgets His Supreme role. He has to make efforts to awake Himself. He went through BK & PBK, but was not satisfied. That was in 6th January 1997 He realised His Supreme role. How? I don't know details. It's also stated in Murli that the Sun (of knowledge) also gets eclipsed & by practising self-realisation He escapes Himself from that eclipse. Okay?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 20 Aug 2007

new knowledge wrote:That was in 6th January 1997 He realised His Supreme role.
And his first efforts were to try and destroy Virendra Dev Dixit who he saw as a false God?

Others might be bothered about "proofs" from the Murlis. Its is a kind of PBK thing. Just straight history would be fine for me. I'd appreciate the PBK version of events too.

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Post by new knowledge » 20 Aug 2007

My dear bro ex-l, only 18 days have passed I've joined Vishnu Party. How can you expect from me answers of historical issues? Let's continue our previous topic. Please read the following quotations from Upanishadas:

1) "Yah Parmaatma sampurna jagat ka kaaran hai" (Maandyokopanishad: 6) meaning the Supreme Soul is the Cause of the whole Universe.

2) "Yeh sab pratyakshy dikhnewaale praanee jisse utpann hote hai, utpann hokar jiske sahaare jeevit rehte hain tatha anta mein prayaan karte hue jisme pravesh karte hain, usko jaannay kee ichchha kar, wahee Brahma hai. meaning through whom all these directly visible living beings are generated, after generation they are sustained by whose support & finally at the time of Exit from the World Drama (Prayaan) merges in whom, He is Brahm, have a desire to know Him.

thus according to Upanishadas at the very first phase of the evolution of the Kalpa Tree, i e, at the begining of the history of the World, there was only Brahm, i e, the God in existance & finally everything will merge in Him. In other words only Brahm (God Father) is the Oldest thing & permanent forever. Murli also states that only ShivBaba (Brahm/the Father) is the Oldest & ShivBaba is permanent forever. Thus except ShivBaba everything is perishable. Everything - living & non-living - generates through Him step by step & finally everything merges in Him. All this process takes millions & billions of years. Is this possible in just 5,000 years???

It's a revolutionary thought in the scientific & BKWSU world that all living & non-living entities have the same source of origin - ShivBaba, the Father (Dashrath Patel).

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Post by fluffy bunny » 20 Aug 2007

new knowledge wrote:My dear bro ex-l, only 18 days have passed I've joined Vishnu Party. How can you expect from me answers of historical issues?
It would be a good time to ask before you get in too deep.

If you do not get a comprehensive answer, it should make you think.

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Post by arjun » 21 Aug 2007

My dear bro ex-l, only 18 days have passed I've joined Vishnu Party. How can you expect from me answers of historical issues? Let's continue our previous topic. Please read the following quotations from Upanishadas:
We understand that you are new for the Vishnu Party, so we do not expect you to be ready with all the answers, but I suppose you do have access to Shri Dashrath Patel. So, there is no harm in passing on the questions to him and passing on the answers through this forum. You can obtain answers from him in Hindi and translate the same in English for us. Your quality of translation is quite good. If you produce both the Hindi and English version (in Roman script) we would be able to understand.
Everything - living & non-living - generates through Him step by step & finally everything merges in Him. All this process takes millions & billions of years. Is this possible in just 5,000 years???
You said that Shri Dashrath Patel realized himself to be the Supreme Father in January, 1997. But just now when I contacted one of the ex-PBKs, who had been with Dashrath Patel in the early years of establishment of Vishnu Party, he said that during those years it was not believed that Dashrath Patel was the Supreme Father Shiv. So, this seems to be a later development. That ex-PBK also said that in those years it was not believed by the Vishnu Party that the world cycle is unlimited (i.e. not 5000 years). So, this also seems to be a later development.

If you believe that God reveals Himself only once in millions of years through Shri Dashrath Patel, then all the Hindu scriptures (including Murlis) that you quote were certainly written by imperfect human beings. So, why do you quote imperfect things? If there is some truth in them, then when and where did they get that truth? If those who wrote the scriptures got the truth from Dashrath Patel now (because God comes only once according to you); then, the world cycle should definitely be repetitive in nature, just as the BKs/PBKs believe and not infinite as the Vishnu Party believes.

If I am not wrong, I remember reading in one of the posts by Vishnu Party members that the knowledge given through Brahma Baba and the knowledge being given through Gulzar Dadi is through the rays of God (i.e. Dashrath Patel). If that is correct, then why did he give the knowledge of 5000 years through both these media, when the theory about the existence of this world since millions and billions of years already existed in the Hindu scriptures since thousands of years?

Why did he mislead the BKs for some years before reverting to the theory of millions of years of world's existence? The theory of souls merging and emerging from the Supreme Soul already existed before BKWSU started. So, why did God in the form of Dashrath Patel mislead the BKs by giving rays through Brahma Baba and Gulzar Dadi to say that the Supreme Soul and the souls are different and cannot merge with each other? What Shri Dashrath Patel is telling already exists in most of the ancient Hindu scriptures, so what is revolutionary about it?????

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by new knowledge » 21 Aug 2007

arjun wrote:We understand that you are new for the Vishnu Party, so we do not expect you to be ready with all the answers, but I suppose you do have access to Shri Dashrath Patel. So, there is no harm in passing on the questions to him and passing on the answers through this forum. You can obtain answers from him in Hindi and translate the same in English for us.
Thanks. Yes, of course. Why not? To share divine knowledge with you, I'll obtain answers of your queries about historical issues & divine knowledge & translate the same in English to quote here
Your quality of translation is quite good.
You are joking.
If you produce both the Hindi and English version (in Roman script) we would be able to understand.
Okay. I'll discuss with Vishnu Party authorities.
You said that Shri Dashrath Patel realized himself to be the Supreme Father in January, 1997. But just now when I contacted one of the ex-PBKs, who had been with Dashrath Patel in the early years of establishment of Vishnu Party, he said that during those years it was not believed that Dashrath Patel was the Supreme Father Shiv. So, this seems to be a later development. That ex-PBK also said that in those years it was not believed by the Vishnu Party that the world cycle is unlimited (i.e. not 5000 years). So, this also seems to be a later development.
Godly knowledge is also subject to refining. Untill yet even less than 1% divine knowledge has emerged.
If you believe that God reveals Himself only once in millions of years through Shri Dashrath Patel, then all the Hindu scriptures (including Murlis) that you quote were certainly written by imperfect human beings.
You are right. Murlis & Ved-Shashras are written through God rays & not direct Shrimat.
So, why do you quote imperfect things?
They are imperfect does not mean that they are 100% wrong. If they are prepared through God rays, then He (God) must have some intention to create Murlis & Ve-Shashras through His rays & inspiration. Then it's not wrong to refer them to understand Shrimat. And every spiritual knowledge has some social & cultural background. So this social & cultural background should be taken into consideration to understand that spiritual knowledge. You know that most of Beejroop (seed-like) souls have BKWSU background as well as Indian social & cultural background. It is stated in Murli that Bharat is the birth place of the Father. And He incarnates in BKWSU circle. Thus also He has Indian social-cultural background as well as BKWSU background. So it's necessary to refer Ved-Shashras (which are related to Indian social & cultural background) & Murlis (related to BKWSU background) to study Godly knowledge.
If there is some truth in them, then when and where did they get that truth?
They are prepared from time to time through God rays & His inspiration.
If those who wrote the scriptures got the truth from Dashrath Patel now (because God comes only once according to you);
My brother, God incarnates only once (at the end of the Kalpa) IN THE CORPOREAL FORM OF BAPUJI Dashrath Patel. But during the whole Kalpa He works through His rays & inspiration. But when the World Drama reaches its uttermost degraded level, God rays cannot work & He Himself have to incarnate as a corporeal being to deliver Shrimat.
then, the world cycle should definitely be repetitive in nature, just as the BKs/PBKs believe and not infinite as the Vishnu Party believes.
Vishnu Party also believe in Time Cycle. Vishnu Party do not believe in infinite time period. We believe in millions-billionr of years of a Kalpa. And millions-billions does not mean infinite.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 21 Aug 2007

Godly knowledge is also subject to refining. Untill yet even less than 1% divine knowledge has emerged.
Thanks for your responses new knowledge and your feedback that your knoweldge of these matters is not yet exhaustive. As time goes we will all benefit as you learn more. Thanks.

In the meantime it seems as though we come up against, what is for me is, a stumbling block (and age-old problem with all these groups) in that the 'truth' is subject to being altered, air-brushed out of history, and even dismissal at the sole discretion of ... God or the group's leader(s). And yes I agree that millions-billions of years of a Kalpa ... may not be the same as infinite.

Thank you.

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Post by arjun » 21 Aug 2007

new_knowledge wrote:Vishnu Party do not believe in infinite time period. We believe in millions-billionr of years of a Kalpa. And millions-billions does not mean infinite.
Thanks for the responses.
Abrahmakumar wrote:And, yes, I agree that millions-billions of years of a Kalpa ... may not be the same as infinite.
Are you serious???? :roll:

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Post by new knowledge » 29 Aug 2007

Arjunbhai, how can you guess that Vishnu Party believe in infinite time period of Kalpa? Actually the concept 'infinity' is just an intellectual creation of mathematicians, which has nothing to do with real facts.

Here I wish to quote my unique invention that
each & every mathematical formula or equation includes at least one variable which has tendency towards infinity (or minus infinity) under particular circumstances. In other words, without the concept of 'infinity', mathematics cannot proceed even a single step. So mathematics cannot represent actual reality. Mathematics can only present average models of real facts due to indulgence of imaginary concepts like 'infinity' in mathematical interpretations. And real facts do not include such things like 'infinity'. Everything is finite (with limited values) in any circumstances. In other words, each & every variable of any mathematical formula or equation tends to a definite & limited value in any circumstances.

Then how can we believe in infinite time period of Kalpa? And really millions & billions of years of a Kalpa (believed by Vishnu Party) do not mean 'infinity time period'.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 29 Aug 2007

Unless there is a practical application, there is not a lot of point thinking about it. Unless you have a joint mathematics and physic degree, there is not a lot of point of engaging in the discussion. What the world needs is clean air, clean water and good plumbing ...

There was this terrible disease I remember from my BK days called Chanderitis. One caught it from reading Purity or Gyan Amrit magazines. It led to all sort of mental delusions amongst BK about the place of Gyan in science ... honestly, BK or BK related mathematics or science is devotional, poetic and designed to discredit the outer world while pumping up the inner world.

There were so few to no real scientist and utterly no peer review and yet the uneducated mass were made to be impressed "Sciencewallahs". Thermodynamics, entropy, quantum physics ... no one really knew what they were all about, they were just buzz words to use and impress other with.

Write a paper, present it to a scientific journal ... I am sorry but I do not think that there is anyone here that is scientifically minded. Actually, in science and mathematics there are more than one infinity ... so it is even more confusing ... BUT they are useful in achieve end results and it is the end results that are useful. Not the working concept. The Knowledge is another working concept.

Any luck digging out what the events of 1997 were?

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