[Policy] Respecting each one's forum

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aimée
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[Policy] Respecting each one's forum

Post by aimée » 17 Jun 2007

Dear Administrators,

I am very happy to see that this site is so healthy and that never before, people from different opinions and backgrounds could communicate together. Even if sometimes the conversations can be a bit heated, we generally make effort to respect each other, and we get so well together. It has become a very rich conversation place.

However, I have a little concern. There is one member who is systematically trying to undermine the PBK's image, and having just now looked at the post about the first entrance of Shiv (I don't remember quite the title), he openly criticizes the PBK. I don't think this is fair, and I would not contradict a BK's belief in his own site, why should the PBK accept constant attacks? Maybe he could be offered a Vishnu Party Forum, or whichever Forum he is in, or to go to the Common Room, or wherever he is more suitable.

I think it is important for the visitor who discovers this site, to be able to have a clear idea about what the Advance Party is, and if this is always mixed up with different idea, then it becomes a mess, and for someone who is not PBK, it is unreadable. Is there any fair action that could be taken?

Thank you in advance to consider this, or maybe you already have done ...?

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john
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Re: Respecting each one's forum

Post by john » 17 Jun 2007

aimée wrote:I think it is important for the visitor who discovers this site, to be able to have a clear idea about what the Advance Party is, and if this is always mixed up with different idea, then it becomes a mess, and for someone who is not PBK, it is unreadable.
Aimee

A 'clear idea to you' is just your view point really. What you are saying is can we have the PBK section how 'I' think it should be. I think that would be for a separate PBK website. This forum, I believe, has a different function and I would not say the PBK section belongs to the PBKs.It's just a place to discuss PBK issues good and bad.

PBKs are generally critical of BKs, and rightly so in my opinion. If you don't like the persons opinion. and feel it is unjust, then that gives you an opportunity to do some churning, post and correct the balance. I am sure the poster feels his/her opinion is just as valid as yours.

I believe the site should promote openness and be a platform for posters to express themselves beyond the constraints of their chosen organisation.
he openly criticizes the PBK. I don't think this is fair
I don't understand why you say this is unfair? Are the PBKs not to be criticised?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 17 Jun 2007

It would be good if people like new_world disclosed their personal experiences and whatever loyalties they have elsewhere. Two things that I have learnt a lot about from this forum are;
  • a) that there are a lot of splinter groups that I had no idea about,
    b) there is both reason and "politics" or "history" involved within and between the various groups including the BKWSU that I also knew ... and largely know ... nothing about.
I am very grateful for the forum for raising all this. I think it presents a much more fair representation about what BK life is really all about than ANYTHING ELSE in print or on the internet; and I think it is wonderfully unique and speaks volumes about all the individuals that are brave enough to come forward and attempt to work those difference through.

I very much also hope that all partied finally exhaust themselves knocking heads together and realist the futility of attempting to "prove" anything on the basis of 5 years worth of mistranslated and arbitrarily selectioned Murlis.

For me that is a bit like saying ... OK, we will miss out numbers one to nine and any number above 15 ... but use the numbers in between to attempt to work out every mathematic and engineering equation that exists.

We have to expand our horizons to include new findings, research more original data (numbers one to nine), equate the various translations that exist to find a most accurate version ... and keep our minds open to new data from all sources, even relative non-Gyani.

Inconclusive, contradictory and controversial opinions ARE unfortunately, the order of the day until we have more information. We are living an a small artificially created ghetto where conflict and dis-ease are being inflammed by the lack of fresh food and proper nourishment.

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Then what is fare?

Post by new world » 17 Jun 2007

Brother John, you are right. All and all Advance Literature & web-sites of the AIVV are 'full of' BK criticism. 24 hours a day, PBKs are engaged in criticising BKs. Is this fair, sister Aimee ...?

* PBKs considers themselves as full cast Brahmins/Suryavanshi & BKs as half-cast Brahmins/Shudras/Chandravanshi.

IS THIS NOT THE SUBTLE SHOOTING OF CASTISM/RACISM/COMMUNALISM ...? Sister Aimee, is that fair?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 17 Jun 2007

People do not realise this about me ... and I am the most accused and accusing of all individuals on this forum ... but my problem is that I can see, and express vividly, both or many sides of such problem whereas most individuals become partisan to one side or another. I am on no side, just walking around observing, seeing it this way and seeing that way.

Having said that, I think I made a mistake by being too heavy in the BK forum, have offered to withdraw from the PBK forum in the past and need or accept others to voice their feelings about my method.

It is neither fair nor unfair. It just is the way it is. It is the puzzle and these are the contradictions we, as allegedly Brahmins souls, have inherited. It is our choice whether to exaggerate and proliferate them, resolve or dispose of them. It may ALL be junk and we ALL just being bedevilled.

I am, again, reminded of Gandhi's quote of South Africa, (approx) "the whites looked down on the blacks and the blacks looked down on the whites, and the Indians looked down on both of them".

You could swop that for BK, PBK, non-BK, the dynamics are the same, everyone looks down on everyone else! That is why we attempt to meet in the middle of the battlefield to work things out ... folks have to willing to let of their prejudices and stupidities.

BTW, communalism is good, it is practiced by all villages and communities to some extent or another. You probably mean "Communism" in English, which has a special meaning to the BKs/PBKs which is different again from the Marxist-Leninist political theory. (See other thread for discussion on that).

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Post by mr green » 17 Jun 2007

I also think just because we don't like what is being said doesn't mean the sayer has every right to say.

Everyone's opinion is valid, otherwise you would have to believe everyone is numberwise :lol: :lol:.

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Post by bansy » 17 Jun 2007

1) As the PBKs do not have a forum outside this bk.info, the PBK sub forum therefore has some Sticky Threads which usually pertain to the Advanced Knowledge and although some members may make some posts within, usually a new thread is made up for discussion outside these sticky threads.

The BK forum also has this capability, but so far few BKs have come forward requesting Sticky Threads for topics that are not already held elsewhere in other BK websites.

2) I understand the concern of Sister Aimee as there is an increasing number of newer members who are ex-PBKs (i.e. splinter groups). This entire forum almost assumes most members have at least some BK basic knowledge, thus ALMOST everyone has opinions of BKs, so that's easy coverage.

Not all, however, have PBK knowledge. And even fewer with splinter group knowledge. But these latter two is increasing and as most of the splinter groups have differences of opinions to that of the PBKs, will naturally post there.

3) Some thought can be given to whether a subforum in created for splinter groups (Vishnu Party, PPBKs, PPPPPPPPBKs (my irony sorry), but only if the splinter group members within these forums will also share, compare and give discussions, and not simply publicise their own party material. It is up to admin who is hosting this website to make it manageable to meet all members needs but also manageable within the limits of admin. I am always reminded that I am able to post here at the courtesy of admin who is hosting this website.

4) Going back to Sister Aimee's concern, the question is really how can one really tell if a member is actually an active PBK who is unsure of the PBK knowledge itself. Many PBKs became a PBK because they were unsure of the BK's so they left the BKs. So there is the possibility that a PBK may be on the verge of leaving the PBKs but has not encountered a splinter group, and is thus questioning the PBK Advanced Knowledge.

What do other PBKs feel about the PBK subforum ?

Aside :

Over time I do notice that, due to the "roaming" capability of all members, anyone can post anywhere, and often the terms of Baba in the different subforums could have a different meaning depending on that member. It is clearer if members will try to use the Chariot name together with the spiritual/symbolic name. i.e. ShivBaba (Lekhraj Kirpalani), ShivBaba (Virendra Dev Dixit), Brahma (DG) Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) etc.

Anyway, if you are to read your posts and assume that the audience is made up of BK, PBK and ex-BKs, then it is worth clarifying your own post to cover a wider range of audience. This is regardless of which subforum you are posting in.

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Post by aimée » 18 Jun 2007

As a PBK I personally don't criticize the BKs. They are part of my own family and I know that at the end, half of the foundation group of the Golden Age will come from the BKs. There is a lot of criticism from PBKs I admit, but they are not mine. My concerns have always been about the way the BK authority manages the rest of the BK population, how God's teaching has been distorted shamelessly, etc.

In some posts, Shivsena has openly criticized the PBKs, I just give you one extract:
This is one of the biggest lies in Advanced Knowledge, that ShivBap first entered into one mata to narrate the story of Brahma's visions.
So, I repeat my request, as Bansy bhen says, there is a PBK forum where the PBK idea should be respected, as there is a BK forum where BK idea should be respected etc.

To question what is said in the clarification, or to find some idea too much, and to post it with the sincere attempt to clarify it, that would be acceptable. However, to put a systematic doubt in the advance knowledge itself, contradicting it with ones own churning, this is obvious for me that it becomes anti PBK. So I respect other groups ideas, but in other forums.

Is that fair?

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New forum for splinter groups

Post by admin » 18 Jun 2007

aimée wrote:So I respect other groups ideas, but in other forums.
Point taken and a new forum created.

It is up to the PBKs to police their own forum and move posts that are to them so significantly "off topic" as to constitute the promotion of a different sub-religion. If members of different splinter groups can identifer themselves or be identified by others, this would help the moderators.

It would help every one if the splinter groups to be identified by their beliefs and leading individuals, their histories and mode of operation documented.

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Post by john » 19 Jun 2007

aimée wrote:As a PBK I personally don't criticize the BKs. They are part of my own family and I know that at the end, half of the foundation group of the Golden Age will come from the BKs.
Whilst taking a stance of being non-critical may be seen as commendable yet, if you believe the PBK knowledge, then you must also believe BKs are telling lies. If a group is promoting or telling lies, then I believe it is in the best interests of the world for that to be criticised.

You say BKs will become part of the foundation for the Golden Age. I think that will only come about when they have amended themselves and that may only come about through criticism acting as a catalyst.

Is this not what the Mahabharat war is about, a war of words?

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Post by andrey » 19 Jun 2007

Maybe it is about such type of behaviour, that is like parasitism, where one limits itself to criticism alone without other types of expression. There is constructive criticism when something is not correct to correct it and there is just criticism without offering an alternative, a point of view or the correct way. Saying; no, no, no, like denial.

It cannot be said that advance knowledge is for criticising. It is new knowledge with a lot of new information where BK does not even mentioned it and more and more comes each day. It is not like the knowledge on paper that we can learn and it can finish. This knowledge cannot finish.

In some way the splinter groups are better as they at least offer an alternative God. The other way is just blind criticism where one will always see something intentionality.

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aimée
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Post by aimée » 19 Jun 2007

John,

I think there is all and everything on all sides. Strictly, from the point of view of knowledge, there is just information of how The Drama unfolds and it is beyond criticism. From the point of view of the people and their actions and attitude, there is definitely something to say, and for me it has been a bit of a shock to see how many BK were so badly treated, and to such extend the abuse of power has been taking place.

However, not all the BK are bad and the group I am mentioning, who are going to be part of the founder of the Golden Age, are the ones who have purity as their main strength. They have not mixed Baba's (in Lekhraj Kirpalani) Murlis with other opinions. They have kept their focus on Baba and are not worshiping the Dadis or whoever senior.

It is very important for everyone to know what is going on in the Yagya, and this site is a blessing for this. Hopefully more and more BKs are going to watch it.

In the BK world they are also so many who are innocent, and full of goodwill. And in the PBK world there is also all and everything. According to the religion we come from, we will have different sanskars, in a good way or in a bad way.

The Mahabharat is a fight with words, you are right, and at the end I think they are those "bombs" of defamation that are going to break the family apart.

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Thanks sister Aimee

Post by new world » 19 Jun 2007

Thanks sister Aimee. Your views are slightly different from traditional PBKism. Thanks. You feel bad when PBKs are criticised. But you saw through the eyes of BKs & you realised the pain of them, when they are BADLY criticised by PBKs.

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Post by andrey » 19 Jun 2007

Dear brother,

Many times you ask whether one's own opinion one can present is or it is not according to the advance knowledge as if you cannot judge yourself? Other times you make a lot of claims about how it is in the advance knowledge. Now you sound as if you perfetly know what the traditional PBKism says. One can only judge that your opinion about the advance knowledge bases itself only on heard-narrated stories from someone. So it can be also said that your perception of what is advance knowledge and PBKism is not credible.

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Post by aimée » 19 Jun 2007

Dear New-World

I don't think you understood what I said. I think no group should be criticized as such, but individuals' behaviour might be. I don't think we can put as a statement that PBK criticize the BK, especially in this site. I think everyone is careful to respect each one's background.

I am not hurt either when the PBKs are criticized. In fact, I would not mind at all if it was in another section of the forum. If I am writing in this site, it is to give the opportunity for some BK or ex-BK to recognize God, because I am convinced of the advance knowledge and that this is God who clarifies the Murlis. If someone comes and starts confusing the minds by putting doubt in what the advance knowledge presents, then my wish cannot be fulfilled, and it is a shame.

This site is a great opportunity for every part of the whole family we are to share and respect each other.

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