[Policy] Respecting each one's forum

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aimée
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Post by aimée » 19 Jun 2007

Dear all and everyone,

I suggest that this post should be moved to the new section, as New-World Bhai is clearly in opposition. This conversation reminds me of the old chats from the xBKchat site. If you don't agree or do agree, please let me know.

I am now really concerned about the overall impression the PBK forum is giving. If you stand back as an observer, and try to put yourself in the skin of a newcomer who does not know about the advance knowledge and is ready to absorb something new ... what can he get from some of the posts? He will probably end up extremely confused.

This forum had a fantastic start, where there was real exchange, of knowledge, opinions, experiences ... why does it have to become a battlefield?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 19 Jun 2007

aimée wrote:... what can he get from some of the posts? He will probably end up extremely confused.
Yes, it is utterly confusing. And it would help if the individuals just went back to basic and gave us all a chart of who is who, and what title is what, and when who has it ... like a historical lineage. If the post is moved, then I suggest the title is changed to something like "ShivBaba's incarnations according to different splinter groups" or something like that.

I would also appreciate if the individuals involved were willing to come clean and state clearly how they say themselves and what loyalties or experiences they have had if they are not "pure" PBK.

I am in the West. I could not give two hoots to the rivalry or past history of all the splits and splinters and am shock by the depths of the divisions. It is also very boring. The internet gives us a chance for a new start but sadly old relationships and rivarly are imported onto it. You should see the silliness of some BKs always deleting the PBK section on the Wikipedia so as to pretend they do not exist.

So, new_world, where do you come from and how d you see yourself in relationship to the BK and PBK?

Shivsena, I know that you are intelligent enough to see your place within the BK tree and integrity enough to state it objectively.

We are all birds of different colors on the one Tree.

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abrahma kumar
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Post by abrahma kumar » 19 Jun 2007

aimée wrote:... This forum had a fantastic start, where there was real exchange, of knowledge, opinions, experiences ... why does it have to become a battlefield?

Yes, aimée, i too have this personal observation. I was wondering whether this feeling of mine highlighted some over-sensitivity on my part or an egotiscal feeling that I happen to understand forum etiquette better than some (apologies).

In the end, I just decided to ignore those battle-ground posts and keep trying to 'be myself'. For all I know, some of my own posts could be identified as being 'combative' rather than openly engaging. I see that the Forum admistrators have made some efforts to assist in this aspect - so thanks to them as always. I trust that by a process of natural selection the real forum-family will coalesce around a common purpose.

Trying to make sense of one's life experience is not the same as proving that one's life experience has validity over and beyond another's.

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Post by shivsena » 19 Jun 2007

abrahma Kumar wrote:Yes, aimée, I too have this personal observation. I was wondering whether this feeling of mine highlighted some over-sensitivity on my part or an egotiscal feeling that I happen to understand forum etiquette better than some (apologies).
Dear aimee and abrahma kumar.

Just wait for a few years more and you will see the whole bk and pbk world will turn into a virtual battlefield (Mahabharat War) where everyone will be fighting according to his intellectual capacity and the weapons will be the Murli points. It has been said in Murlis that ''Gyan ashta-shastra bhi hain'', and that we are all ruhani kshatriyas (warriors) who will have to fight on this karm-shetra (battlefield) with the weapons of knowledge (Murli points) and whosoever wins will come in 108 rudramala beads.

shivsena.

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Post by bansy » 19 Jun 2007

everyone will be fighting according to his intellectual capacity and the weapons will be the Murli points
The only fighting is with oneself. If I am at peace, why would I need to fight?

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Post by shivsena » 20 Jun 2007

bansy wrote:The only fighting is with oneself. If I am at peace, why would I need to fight?
Dear bansy.

There are two types of fight: one fight is internal, where one has to fight to get rid of 5 vices; and other fight is external, where one has to fight to establish the truth, i.e. who is the ''God of the Gita'', whether it is bindi ShivBaba through Lekhraj Kirpalani, whether it is bindi ShivBaba through Virendra Dev Dixit, or whether it is Ramshivbaba through Prajapita Brahma (Krishna) through the body of Virendra Dev Dixit.

The above belief is what is going to decide the fate of each soul: 9,00,000 bk praja will not think beyond bindi ShivBaba in Lekhraj Kirpalani, 16,000 pbk royal praja will not think beyond bindi ShivBaba in Virendra Dev Dixit, but the kings 108 rudrabeads will firmly believe in the 100% nirakari stage of Ram's soul as Ramshivbaba (Ram+shiv combined) and they will see Krishna's soul as saakari prajapita brahma through the body of Virendra Dev Dixit.

As you think so you become.

shivsena
.

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abrahma kumar
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Post by abrahma kumar » 20 Jun 2007

shivsena wrote:Just wait for a few years more and you will see the whole BK and PBK world will turn into a virtual battlefield (Mahabharat War) where everyone will be fighting according to his intellectual capacity and the weapons will be the Murli points. It has been said in Murlis that ''Gyan ashta-shastra bhi hain'', and that we are all ruhani kshatriyas (warriors) who will have to fight on this karm-shetra (battlefield) with the weapons of knowledge (Murli points) and whosoever wins will come in 108 rudramala beads.
Thanks for your feedback shivsena. Maybe it is the prospect of this that is also pulling me away.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 20 Jun 2007

shivsena wrote:There are two types of fight.
In all fairness, shouldn't that be prefaced, "In my opinion ..."?

I'd always err on the side of caution because, inevitably, you are propelling yourself into the top 108 by your own logic. In fact, probably even higher than the 108 because you see, understand and communicate even that which Lekhraj Kirpalani, Virendra Dev Dixit or Shiva Baba is not willing or able to.

There appears also to be no emphasis at all on Darna or Seva either. Gyan alone is to be the deciders and determine future lives. Would that not suggest a likely imbalance in any final stage? I know myself that I need to guard against thinking that my perception is higher than anyone else's, it seems to be a human tendency.

For me, it is similar to a sort of Christian point of view where just knowing and investing belief in the Messiah assures the individual to a birth in Heaven close to him. No need to change one's sanskars, no need to do anything any charity (seva). Even the charity of giving, sharing and teaching of Gyan.

As it is not an official PBK point of view, so does this idea belong with another Splinter group? If can the title be change to something like, "ShivBaba's incarnation according to different BK groups"? Perhaps even within the BKWSU, I am sure that there are different perceptions.

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Post by bansy » 20 Jun 2007

My answer is not aimed at anyone, just an observation.
There are two types of fight: one fight is internal, where one has to fight to get rid of 5 vices; and other fight is external, where one has to fight to establish the truth
When you have gotten rid of the 5 fives, is there the need the look for the truth ? Would one need what is external when one is internally complete ?

God is who it is. The Sun is what it is. The grass is what it is. A rock is what it is. The 108 is what it is. Nothing in this current birth will allow you know what your number is. It is for the next life, and who knows, maybe me or you or him or her or then next soul will be one of those in the rosary. But even if one becomes part of it, when the time comes one will not even realise it since God won't be around to validate that claim.
As you think so you become.
The less I think, the more I become. The more I am full of purity, the less I need for my apron to be filled.

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Post by mr green » 20 Jun 2007

mmmmmmm

I cannot see this fighting scenario, that's just for spiritual babies.

Those who are REALLY prepared to accept the truth have no one to fight, there are no battles to be won.

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Post by shivsena » 20 Jun 2007

ex-l wrote: There are two types of fight. In all fairness, shouldn't that be prefaced, "In my opinion ..."?
Dear ex-l,

Whatever views one is expressing on this forum is the opinion of one's self only and not the final truth; so i do not think that every opening statement should begin with "in my opinion"; that has to be understood.
ex-l wrote:I'd always err on the side of caution because, inevitably, you are propelling yourself into the top 108 by your own logic. In fact, probably even higher than the 108 because you see, understand and communicate even that which Lekhraj Kirpalani, Veerendra Dev Dixit or Shiva Baba is not willing or able to.
You are free to think whatever you want to, but one thing is 100% certain; 108 rudrabeads can go ahead of Krishna but no one can go ahead of Ramshivbaba. I will quote a Murli point with date in this regard in a few days after referring to my dairy.
ex-l wrote:There appears also to be no emphasis at all on Darna or Seva either. Gyan alone is to be the deciders and determine future lives. Would that not suggest a likely imbalance in any final stage? I know myself that I need to guard against thinking that my perception is higher than anyone else's, it seems to be a human tendency.
The foundation of everything is knowledge (the first subject is 'Gyan' out of 4 subjects ie. Gyan-Yoga-dharna-seva). If the knowledge foundation is weak then one cannot become a king (like the vijaymala souls, who are foremost in dharna but nil in knowledge and so they do not stand any chance of being in 108 king souls.). The title of 108 rudrabeads (kings) is "Gyani-tu atma" (knowledgeable souls). The Murli also says that "ShivBaba likes Gyani-tu atma", it is never said in the Murlis that ShivBaba likes sevadhari atma or dharna-yukt atma or yogi-tu atma.

shivsena

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Post by fluffy bunny » 20 Jun 2007

shivsena wrote:Whatever views one is expressing on this forum is the opinion of one's self only and not the final truth; so I do not think that every opening statement should begin with "in my opinion"; that has to be understood.
Not true. You can state a fact objectively. You can quote a Murli point or report other publication accurately. It is beyond that which become subjective interpretation.

So, to answer Aimée's concern, are you or do you consider yourself a PBK?

And how do you see yourself in relationship to the PBK and BKWSU?

You too, new_world.

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Post by john » 20 Jun 2007

It is my observation that the establishment of truth, and acceptance (amongst BK/PBK groups) of it, will be a very difficult thing. It wont "just happen". That is why i think there will be, and has to be a, Mahabharat war of words between Brahmin souls. If the truth was easy, and everyone accepted it, this forum wouldn't exist and there would just be one group of BKs/PBKs or whatever.

In the Model of spirituality put forward by ShivBaba, there has to be one truth because the 5,000 year cycle is identical there can not be any variation. What that one truth is, is the crux of the situation because no two people really agree, although groups may agree broadly on what it is.
Mr Green wrote:Those who are REALLY prepared to accept the truth have no one to fight, there are no battles to be won.
I agree to a point, but there has to be debate to establish the truth first. The fighting should be as a detached observer and i don't mean literal fighting, though I think that does and will happen more amongst groups.

I do agree with Shivesena it will be an internal and external battle.

Any PBK saying there is not this battle, I believe, is deluded. PBK is about establishing the truth (as they see it) and correcting the mistakes they feel BKs have made. The whole foundation of it was from Virendra Dev Dixit studying the Murlis and deciding the BK interpretation was wrong. Other splinter groups are doing exactly the same.

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Post by john » 20 Jun 2007

aimée wrote: I don't think we can put as a statement that PBK criticize the BK, especially in this site. I think everyone is careful to respect each one's background.
Aimee

With respect I think you have missed a lot. Whether criticism is done sweetly or not it is still criticism. BK understanding of Gyan is criticised by PBKs, if it wasn't what would be the point of another group?
aimée wrote:If someone comes and starts confusing the minds by putting doubt in what the Advanced Knowledge presents, then my wish cannot be fulfilled, and it is a shame.
One soul's confusion is another's clarity. If Advance Knowledge is the truth and from God, surely it will be able to stand a few knocks? Will it disintegrate with some criticism? That can not be so, have more faith :D.

I do understand how you feel though because at times I've felt I've had very valid points in the past and the threads were trampled on by certain PBKs.

Just to clarify, i think the new section for splinter groups is the right idea.

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 20 Jun 2007

john wrote:Other splinter groups are doing exactly the same.
Personally, although I think Virendra Dev Dixit is sincere in his intent (he really believes what he believes he believes and what he believes is happening to him), it would appear to me that the the following groups are, perhaps, a little less innocent to the "market value" and "business model" that they see Virendra Dev Dixit is following and seem to be copying it.

That is to say, in Virendra Dev Dixit they see that there is a place in the "spiritual market place" for a group appealling to disaffected BKs, so they are encouraged to set up a group to appeal to disaffected PBKs ... or whatever. It would be interesting to see if they ever attract anyone new.
  • Given that Yoga with the Shiva Baba soul is the central activity of the BKWSU, who are these folks having Yoga with?
    Do they all claim that Shiva has entered their avatar? If so, can we have the datelines established.
    Are they channelling spirits or just re-hashing the philosophy?
    Do they recognize Shiva in Lekhraj Kirpalani or Gulzar?
think that if they step away from recognizing Shiva then they have probably gone too far from being BK to be of much interest for this forum EXCEPT for their historical relationship.

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