Questions that are never asked - well not at our centre

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amaranthine
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Questions that are never asked - well not at our centre

Post by amaranthine » 02 Jun 2006

It's good to find that this forum exists. There's certainly nothing like it in BKdom, which is a shame because discussing controversial points must surely be a worthwhile thing. For all their good qualities and virtues when it comes to being critical of the knowledge most BKs at our centre would rather use the power to pack-up than the power to face. This is also a shame for being critical is different to being cynical. So to address this (for me) I've got a few questions that I would never ask at the centre, I would be interested to hear what other people think about them.

1. How can the second Narayan (soul number 3) attain the full 5000 years?

Assumptions:

• As far as my understanding goes, in the Golden Age the deities have their children fairly late (not sure how late)
• The Golden Age starts when Lakshmi and Narayan are coroneted - i think this would be before they have any children

If the above are correct then Narayan No2 (could that be Dadi Janki?) doesn't get the full 5000 years - they are not there from 0.0.0. as they have not yet been born! Ah well - I suppose after all that jetting around she deserves a bit longer in the Soul World.

2. What happens to everyone after the Silver Age?

Assumptions

• Nothing from 'heaven' exists in 'hell' (1st and 2nd half of the cycle)
• Only Bharat exists in heaven

One day its heaven, its Bharat, and everyone is walking around in soul conscious bliss - then bang! The earth’s axis tilts. Continents emerge from the oceans. All trace of heaven in Bharat is lost - no palaces, no vimans – nothing! However not only do all the continents emerge from nowhere but they emerge with civilisations, which have many different languages and cultures and buildings. Now that’s magic! I guess this body conscious malarkey is pretty powerful stuff!

But also what happens to the souls still in Bharat - does no one remember heaven? Does everyone have amnesia? Does no one remember that their children were born through the power of Yoga? Does no one say 'where has my house gone?' And why does nobody remember this cataclysmic change? I mean we remember Buddha and Abraham who came not long after this event - maybe even within the lifetime of some who lived through the change - but no one bothers to discuss or record the massive confusion which must surely have resulted from the event itself!?!?

Personally I find the Silver Age – Copper Age confluence far more interesting (unbelievable) than the iron age – Golden Age confluence.

3. Why does nobody talk about this stuff?

We need another Jagdish to challenge the knowledge – like he did with the form of the soul. Why does nobody do this? As this aspect of the knowledge is currently explained it’s a load of garbage – just like the shape of the soul being thumb shaped was (well, this is far more stupid in my opinion). We’re supposed to spin the cycle for goodness sake – but the cycle, it don’t make any sense!

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john
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Post by john » 02 Jun 2006

it’s a load of garbage – just like the shape of the soul being thumb shaped was (well, this is far more stupid in my opinion)
This is what confuses me, if Shiva is the ocean of knowledge and THE truth,
why would he say the soul is like a thumb?
Something doesn't seem right to me.....but what I don't know?

You're are right nobody challenges things, it's just accepted...PBKs challenge the BK version of events, but don't seem prepared to challenge themselves.

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Re: Questions that are never asked - well not at our centre

Post by fluffy bunny » 02 Jun 2006

amaranthine wrote: I mean we remember Buddha and Abraham who came not long after this event - maybe even within the lifetime of some who lived through the change - but no one bothers to discuss or record the massive confusion which must surely have resulted from the event itself!?!?
Good points and good to have you on board!

Yes, in their wisdom of infinitely perfect symmetry, did not they say that Abraham appeared at exactly 2,500 years o'clock? So, let us be specific ...

Say Abraham was a Silver Aged soul. They say that Jesus was too. How old was he until he was possessed by the Jewish Messiah soul - and who was he? So was there a Confluence Age of 50 to 100 years at that time too? Was he born in the Silver Age and then became the Chariot bang on transformation. Or was he born in the Copper Age if so then why did he folks not know? Then, of course, it could not have been 2,500 years exactly.

And how do they correlate the Ancient Egyptian civilisation which does kind of come into the Jewish myth but still exist today?

It is dangerous ground if you are still a BK. I think you just have to accept that there is a lot of neat numbers in Hinduism and BK-ism has caught the same bug. But is this not "churning" or "spinning the cycle"?

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Re: Questions that are never asked - well not at our centre

Post by howiemac » 04 Jun 2006

Hi amaranthine - welcome to the forum. Here are my thoughts on some of your questions:
amaranthine wrote:1. How can the second Narayan (soul number 3) attain the full 5000 years?
As i understand the BK position, per the Murlis, and (as i recall) clarification from Gulzar - the 8 play the 8 world emperors one after the other, for the 8 generations of the Golden Age - i.e. they take it in turns one after the other to be world emperor. Meanwhile, for each generation, one of the other 7 plays world empress and the other 6 play close members of the royal family and/or court. So all are around from the beginning, swapping roles around like musical chairs. And the second Naryan would be the number 2 soul, i assume, rather than the number 3. Just for the record my own churnings suggest that, as per the natural order of the human race, the world empress is actually in charge (personifying, effectively "mother earth"), but the emperor is put in front as the figurehead, the official leader.
Narayan No2 (could that be Dadi Janki?)
i do hope not.... but who can say?
2. What happens to everyone after the Silver Age?

Assumptions

• Nothing from 'heaven' exists in 'hell' (1st and 2nd half of the cycle)
• Only Bharat exists in heaven
the world starts with one land mass - pangaea - in the golden and silver ages - then, big calamity, the axis tilts, the earth's crust slides around and it splits into the continents we now know. I suspect most of the population is wiped out, and reincarnate in a quite different type of body - ie skin and bones carnivores, evolved from animal origin, maybe even as we were playing around in paradise in our subtle bodies with our magical toys....

The migrations of different races to the various continents, and splitting of languages etc all follow on.... more churning required :)
Does no one remember that their children were born through the power of Yoga?
well how much is clearly remembered from one incarnation to the next? Enough for spawning many myths and legends.. but up to this point nothing has been documented anyway - record keeping starts with the Copper Age.
why does nobody remember this cataclysmic change?.. but no one bothers to discuss or record the massive confusion which must surely have resulted from the event itself!?!?
well - the deluge is recorded in Genesis - someone wrote that... and there are many other older accounts of such calamity. And where did the legend of Sumaria and Atlantis come from?
Personally I find the Silver Age – Copper Age confluence far more interesting (unbelievable) than the iron age – Golden Age confluence.
i agree - though both are fascinating, that one is maybe more so because we know so little - here and now we can see what is happening
3. Why does nobody talk about this stuff?
yes we do..
We need another Jagdish to challenge the knowledge – like he did with the form of the soul. Why does nobody do this? As this aspect of the knowledge is currently explained it’s a load of garbage – just like the shape of the soul being thumb shaped was (well, this is far more stupid in my opinion). We’re supposed to spin the cycle for goodness sake – but the cycle, it don’t make any sense!
so lets spin the cycle - we can all be Jagdishes - we don't need BB to give us permission in a Murli - even if we did, he has told us repeatedly to churn, and to spin the cycle. Jut because thousands of BKs choose to disobey their own master and their own teachings, does that make them right?

spin on :wink:

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Post by sparkal » 05 Jun 2006

If people are not telling all, it means that they may have something to hide, or something which they feel that they cannot share with you / us for whatever reasons. Perhaps in the way that a parent will tell their child I will tell you when you are older. The " thumb shape " thing is a reflection of the souls who are being taught and not of the teacher.
The aim is self transformation, there are things which we may not know, and don't need to know, yet still reach the destination. So people can justify withholding information. cannot they?

Consider that there may be a dimension missing. A fairy realm, a place which was once in sync / at one with this corporeal world, a place which we have lost touch with due to our material awareness. I cannot prove this. That dimension would also be under the influence of entropy, so, may well be at its most degraded at this point also. We need to think about the confluence, the coming together of three what? ( I intend to post on this elsewhere, Cycle? ) The Three Worlds is a very simple teaching of the " Subtle Regions ".

As for the tree ? We cannot assume anything. Can you handle being told that none of the prophet's existed at the time's they are said to have? Are you ready to receive that sort of information?

I did not say that that is the case, it was just an example, wasn't it?
Souls build up a fair bit of ego around their new found Gyan and don't like people messing with their new range of perfect fixed beliefs . All BK's should learn the term " I DON'T KNOW ", they will move forward faster. The path is designed to break down the fixed belief itself. There is much we don't know, let us gather all the ingredients first, then prepare the meal, as I suspect some souls may be eating cabbage with their ice cream ( ? ).

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Post by amaranthine » 05 Jun 2006

Thanks for the churnings howiemac, I'd never considered being subtle in the Golden Age (Golden Age) - interesting. Would that mean that all matter was subtle as well? This could also explain why nothing of the Golden Age and Silver Age exists now. What I cannot get my head around though is how you go from the complete destruction of one civilisation to the creation of lots of smaller civilisations in what must be a very short period of time.

As an aside, does anyone know when recorded history starts to become unreliable - is it reliable up to Christ i.e. did Christ really exist 2000 years ago or was it shorter? Are historical dates before Christ informed guesses or were they recorded at the time?

I've often wondered about the 'infamous' stills theory that hails from Cambridge. If I remember this correctly it states something along the lines that our experience of the cycle is due to our passage through a sort of pre-written (eternal) 3D film reel. It also allows for the possibility of other parallel universes (other film reels). I think physics has recently theorised about the scientific possibility of this, although it must be added not quite like how I am explaining it! So maybe our experience in heaven could be in one universe (which was more subtle) and when there is the massive shift from soul consciousness to body consciousness the soul gets shifted into a more physical universe which has its own history - but a history that was not being experienced by human souls up to that point (Am I making sense?). The crooks of this argument is that the 5000 year cycle is tied to the souls passage through time but not to matter.

This could explain why souls remember heaven in such a vague sort of way. This sort of theory could also explain dinosaur bones: either they are just there (like the props of a drama are) or they did evolve etc etc but did so in our current universe which we have not always inhabited. But we don't believe in evolution - right!?

Thanks for the reply sparkal

You are quite right - I don’t know, but I would like to. Part of the Honeymoon Period for me was to do with being given a set of revolutionary ideas about the history of time and my place in it. If I deepen this understanding that excitement would come back which would have a positive effect on my Yoga - is this not why Baba asks us to churn?

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Post by howiemac » 05 Jun 2006

amaranthine wrote:So maybe our experience in heaven could be in one universe (which was more subtle) and when there is the massive shift from soul consciousness to body consciousness the soul gets shifted into a more physical universe which has its own history - but a history that was not being experienced by human souls up to that point (Am I making sense?).
Yes, you are making sense, to me at any rate. Though i would call it another dimension rather than another universe but that difference is probably just semantics. This concept crops up in ancient Indian beliefs - still held, I believe, by certain inner traditions of Buddhism and Hinduism - where there are multiple planets Earth in different dimensions - and this one is the most dense. In this tradition we evolve through a cycle on each planet, then move to the next earth - the first four get more material and dense as they go (this one being the fourth) and then there are three more getting less dense (i.e. more spiritual) again, until that larger cycle restarts. So we could gain experience in subtle bodies and then reincarnate in a gross physical body type, which itself had evolved (perhaps taking millions of years), on the 'fourth' Earth.

I do feel that if the 5000 years thing is to be accepted at all (and i have reservations about that - when BK 'knowledge' is so demonstrably wrong on the timing of Destruction, why should any other precise measures be believed? Why have such blind faith?), it should be seen as a 5000 year experience of incarnations on Earth for us souls, rather than relating to the cycle of Earth itself. We leave these bodies and immediately - whether in the Subtle Regions or Soul World - are beyond time and space. Billions of years could pass by and seem to us like much less than the blink of an eye.

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