Official Contact with Sister Jayanti BKWSU (UK) - legal

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tinydot
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Post by tinydot » 21 Aug 2007

primal.logic wrote:Now there is a new threat - a website that will expose the ''yukti'' (or deception as the rest of us understand it) the BKs use to achieve their objectives.
This is an interesting idea, primal. Looks like an aggressive move is more appropriate to bring change.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Aug 2007

primal.logic wrote:Actually, Jayanti would not have contacted us if she were not being encouraged by Brian Bacon and Mike George. It is their commercial interests and professional lives that are at stake here. Along with a lot of other profiteers and hangers on
Is that right? I wish he could have more of an influentce. I see the Brian Bacon brand continues to expand, also promoting the Self Management Leadership thing (BrianBacon.com). That quote, "the creator of one of the world's most successful leadership development programs with over 100,000 alumni from 56 countries.", has to refer to BKWSU SML courses, surely? In his defence, I have to say that he also has to have practical commonsense and lives in the Western World. I can imagine this matter is also becoming a "battle of faith" for the hardcore diehards within the BKWSU, not just that they are looking after their own self-interests.

I mean, how can a ragtag bunch of dirty shudras, lower than the lowest of the low, tell one of the 8 how to run their business? They are the Golden Aged kings and queen in waiting and what are we in their eyes ... Silver Aged cremators. Bull to all the wonderful stuff they spout at interfaith meetings ... this is about caste now! How could we possibly be in anyway right and they in anyway wrong at all!?! We are below them. In their eyes.

Yes, I agree. If they are playing the game of PR spin on top of a now proven track record in "economy with the truth", its in the public interest to have influential individuals and tactics clearly identified. Where an individual supports, empowers and benefits from a corrupt regime, it is fairdos to out them.

What I cannot understand is how can an obviously intelligent man like Brian REALLY believe in a 5,000 Year Cycle of time with dinosaurs existing 2,500 years ago and be blind to the meaning of the historical revision? I think folks ought to take time to approach any VIP, any author, journalist or institution being sucked in to act as their "mic" by the 'Important Person' treatment and spill the beans.

For me, what is most distasteful is that the BK leadership equates PR with charity and service, and uses the donations it receives to fund it. Using it not only to promote the organization's public image but their own position at the head of it. I mean, are they really "bringing benefit" by them all flying around attending United Nations meetings .. or is it just PR?

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Post by mr green » 21 Aug 2007

I don't think he does believe it, ex-l. He's just on to a good thing.

I know for a fact Mike doesn't believe in The Cycle, he told me so ... in his words "it is a red herring!".

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Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Aug 2007

mr green wrote:I don't think he does believe it, ex-l. He's just on to a good thing. I know for a fact Mike doesn't believe in The Cycle, he told me so ... in his words "it is a red herring!".
So, what is going on? If he, Mike George and the likes don't believe, you see the actual numbers being removed from the public posters, and the word from the XBKChat saga was that they were talking about altering The Cycle ... who does believe in it?

Anyway, let's see if they respond at all. Let's give them a few more days to decide and then if they come back with nothing start work on a Plan B.

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deception

Post by alladin » 21 Aug 2007

Hi, Primal! You know we don't mind if any body disappears for a while into the Subtle Regions, because it seems as if whoever has done it, has come back with greater power and clarity!!
we are just trapped in the proverbial Maya and are enslaved to Ravan.
Denial is what they practise and this lack of accepting reality and credit other people for what they do, has a boomerang effect.
Brian Bacon and Mike George. It is their commercial interests and professional lives that are at stake here. Along with a lot of other profiteers and hangers on.
Absolutely, it makes a lot of sense, once again: realism, what moves the world is $!

About dynosaurs and cycle: why should Brian or Mike believe in that? I once met a top Sony Ericssons manager, and he privately confessed that he would not buy an Ericssons cell phone! Those people are just salesmen!! Why expecting any consistency? The only consistent, in the sense of tangible thing is the cash flowing in, and possibly name and fame!
Of course they did not and were not happy to discover that they had been deceived into association with a cult, only to be used as a publicity stooge.
VIPs also feel really bad once they realize they've been used and the "love bombing" was false!!! I have seen several cases of "disappointments"! It really hurts, being cheated, especially by so called" spiritual" people!
they have a responsibility for their members and ex-members that extends beyond ''have Yoga and it will all be okay".
That's the BK common and cheap mantra. A panacea. They are very cynical and simplistic when they say that and it sure does not represent a solution to "devastated" people!!
tip of the iceberg
Nice to ride on one!!
I know a lot of ex-members who have, by degrees, been traumatised by their association with the BKWSU, but who will not participate in a forum because they don't see it as part of their healing process - unfortunately. Because many of them are walking open wounds.
In time, they hopefully will take this extra, if not only, opportunity to speak up and heal. I have personal friends who are in that position. All we can do is stay committed with our contributions, and have plenty of good wishes. If we are in good shape, it will help other BKs and ex-BKs too!

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Post by john » 21 Aug 2007

ex-l wrote:So, what is going on? If he, Mike George and the likes don't believe, you see the actual numbers being removed from the public posters, and the word from the XBKChat saga was that they were talking about altering The Cycle ... who does believe in it?
It would be interesting to know if any points in Murli's or Avyakt Vani's go contrary to 5,000 year cycle. I have never seen any and never heard anyone speak of any.

If they were to change the 5,000 cycle idea, where would they get the Shrimat from?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Aug 2007

john wrote:If they were to change the 5,000 cycle idea, where would they get the Shrimat from?
Do they care any more? Does it matter? May be, like Mike George is quoted as saying, it does not matter once you get to the top and the real game becomes more obvious ... Power, the maintenance and defence of it.

I found another relative quote from the eminent BK Sister Denise Lawrence. Denise is apparently in the "University's" ... "Department of Value Education" and her title now, "(UK) Adviser, Academic Affairs, and International Representative for Public Relations of Brahmakumaris."
[b]Global Forum for Public Relations on 24th Dec 2006[/b] wrote:She [Denise Lawrence] therefore, stressed the need for ensuring ethical values in dealing with corporate communication to achieve positive credibility for the organization.

She has co-related these elements to the Golden Triangle set by the Global Forum with regard to Professionalism, Ethics and Spirituality for effective Public Relations.
I appreciate that the BKWSU is ever changing but does anyone know of a "Department of Value Education" within the "University"?

The chief guest at this meeting, was a BK Dr. C.V. Narasimha Reddi, Editor of PR Voice and gounder of the BKWSU pay to join (USD $50) front GLOBAL FORUM FOR PUBLIC RELATIONS. Usual stuff of BKs not being labelled as such and organizations being set up "in association with". But the GFPR has been set up to promote professional excellence of international standards, with the Basic Human Values - Truth, Right Conduct, Peace, Love.

Vice-president BK Y. Babji said that "all Brahma Kumaris are PR practitioners by nature" and sister Sarala stressed "the importance of sharpening their communication skills by Brothers and Sisters through interaction with PR professionals".

OK ... Denise, what say you about some ethics in communications and PR please?

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Post by mr green » 21 Aug 2007

Man, those people are so 1980's!!!!!!!!

Don't they know spin is the new PR? :lol:

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Post by bkti-pit » 21 Aug 2007

I'd like to comment on a few things that came up in the last few days.
You've got to keep your accusations accurate
It is indeed very important to have well documented facts if I am expected to speak out as a BK.
I wonder why it is so difficult for people to do that: speak out!
I have been thinking about that. Why is it that I don't speak out more than I do?

I can see many aspects to that. One is that I need solid evidence before I feel comfortable enough to raise a point. Then, It takes me a while to articulate my thoughts and feelings in order to express myself clearly and effectively It can take me a few hours to write a short post on this forum. I cannot afford that much time if I have to speak it out. So I better be well prepared otherwise chances are that I won't be able to make my point and this is even more so if I the environment is hostile. I also have to make sure that my feelings and attitude are right otherwise they may trigger unwanted hostile and defensive reactions.

I was a lot more outspoken in my early days but it never brought positive results. In many instances even those I wanted to protect raised up against me and I have learned to stay quiet. I have won everyone's respect by now and when I do speak out I usually get positive responses but it takes more than that for a RCO to acknowledge that a mistake have been made.
The thing to do is not make things up, not over-react, not jump hastily to presumptions ... but just sit patiently and keep documenting incident and incident
Yes. Do that and keep making it public.

I am a BK who wants to remain a BK and I still have full faith in BapDada despite all what I've learned here but I do not like the secrecy, the cover-ups, the lies and the uncaring attitudes of the management. I consider all that to be very harmful to the purpose of bringing benefit to this world, so let it be exposed. If they were really acting like the true children of the true Father, they would have nothing to hide and nothing to fear.
First class air travel ... now that is true. Does the person that flies with Dadi also get it?
I think it is fair for Dadi to fly in first-class at 90 years old and being expected to tour so many cities in so few days, sleeping in a different bed each night, having to adjust to the jet lag, the different cultures, different climates, etc and having to deal with all the problems in each center. As far as the sister traveling with her, if she has to look after Dadi, it seems to me that she has to travel first-class too. If we are not willing to pay for that we should then tell Dadi to stay home.

I have seen preparations for Dadi's visits in many centers. It is always quite frantic, trying to get everything looking great, buying new stuff and getting someone with the nicest car to get Dadi around, but it seems to me that Dadi has never been impressed by any of that and that she did not really care for a nice big car.

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Post by bkti-pit » 21 Aug 2007

When I look at what is happening on the front line of the BKs, all the pomp and show, I feel sorry for Baba's Yagya and what they did to it!

What keeps me hopeful is the simple ones, the incognito ones, those with a true heart.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Aug 2007

BKTi-Pit wrote:So I better be well prepared otherwise chances are that I won't be able to make my point and this is even more so if I the environment is hostile. I also have to make sure that my feelings and attitude are right otherwise they may trigger unwanted hostile and defensive reactions.
Speaking as someone that is most often accused of being many things including hostile or aggressive, I can promise you the only thing that really offends me is ignorance (as in "willful ignoring") and condescension. Especially when it is from a position ladden with dishonesty. I have no problem with ordinary and honest BKs.

You can say anything as far as I am concerned as long as you say it with simple, straightforward sincerity. What I do not understand is why the BKs cant see that digging out the truth, and getting to the core of things, makes the whole thing MORE interesting.
When I look at what is happening on the front line of the BKs, all the pomp and show, I feel sorry for Baba's Yagya and what they did to it! What keeps me hopeful is the simple ones, the incognito ones, those with a true heart.
My sentiments exactly ...

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Post by vivaespana » 21 Aug 2007

Now there is a new threat - a website that will expose the ''yukti'' (or deception as the rest of us understand it) the BKs use to achieve their objectives. It will also expose the likes of Brian and Mike (sorry guys, but your web presence has already been downloaded for inclusion, along with Oxford Leadership Academy, Relax7 etc etc - ie: too late!) Even Nikki gets a mention!
Hi,

You may want to add these people to your list;
The aim of the retreat is that a group of artists come together for a few days to
dialogue, discover and reflect individually and collectively on topics such as identity,
purpose and values. A further aim is to understand how artists and the arts could help,
heal and open the minds and hearts of a people often demoralized and damaged by the
excessive, unpredictable negativities of daily living.
vivaespana

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Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Aug 2007

Is that a Plan A list or a Plan B list? We should wait until we see what the BKs come up with.
vivaespana wrote:Cris Bolivar Consultin
Interesting ... another corporate consultant type hanging out with the Oxford Leadership Academy set; Mike George, Ken O'Donell etc. An impressive CV but a definite cross over between business and Gyan. She and Baldi Figueras are both BKs. Obviously someone not naive enough to give up education and her career plan.
Besides to have an ample complementary formation, of between that they emphasize the received one in Coaching and Leadership by Richard Boyatzis, in Coaching and consultancy by Itamar Rogovsky, in Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman, or its formation in tools and schools like the Focusing de Gendlin, Constellations of Hellinger, Analysis Transaccional, Coaching Ontológico, NLP (Linguistic Neuro Programming) or Tavistock, with Ken O'Donnell, Sister Jayanti, George Mike ...
She references Mike George's Taken from one corporate presentation;
Cris Bolivar wrote:I know a magical place where each one is the one they wishes to be. Where each one can communicate sincerely and know all others. Where all this good is peace and joy ...

I know a magical place where one can be, where one feels able and safe, worthy and valuable. Where the fear does not exist ... and in his place there is freedom.

I know a magical place which there is no need to arrive, only to discover. A complete and wonderful place a unique place ... that place is you
Smells like the essence of BK Raja Yoga to me ...

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Post by bkti-pit » 22 Aug 2007

Dear ex-l,

When I mention hostile environment, I am not talking about this forum but about BKs who can become very reactive and totally locked-up when exposed to the slightest form of criticism or disagreement.

On one hand I know that saying nothing can support the corruption but on the other hand I also know that if I am too blunt I am not creating a positive impact and not achieving my goals.

It may seem very simple for some to speak out but I have to go through a long process of reflexion before I can figure out what to say, how to say and when to say. This is the cooperation I can offer.

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Post by primal.logic » 23 Aug 2007

I have no problem with ordinary and honest BKs.
I think it important to clarify our motivation - it is for the ''ordinary'' BKs that we are here. They are the ''cannon fodder'' of the organisation. This forum is important to the healing process of ex-BKs' (interesting that the BKs want it shut down!) It is also important as a means of providing the full picture to people who want to know something about the BKs that hasn't been produced by the BK PR machine.

But, importantly, this forum provides an opportunity to demand a duty of care policy and program for the ''ordinary BKs'' who honestly believe, quite mistakenly, that Dadi and co are actually caring!

I have no interest in revenge or antagonism. I have zero interest in Dadi, Jayanti or any other member of the BK Central Commitee. If the BK Seniors and their cronies were not creating such a tragic outcome, I would not be here. I am here for all the future victims of this cult.

Because if we don't help, who will? There has been no one there for any of us!

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