Why nobody wants to discuss this biggest test?

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master creator
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Re: Why nobody wants to discuss this biggest test?

Post by master creator » 04 Oct 2007

golden heart wrote:3. It is not true that nobody is willing to guide you in the BK Family. Just as you have exercised courage to reveal your difficulty here, you must have the same courage to express it to any instrumental experienced soul in the Family. Since you will be going to Madhuban this season, I will not go into too much detail here, but you may approach Ashok Gabba who is dealing with the Security Wing, who is normally very friendly with Double Foreigners. You may also meet Mohan Singhal who is dealing with the Scientists and Engineering Wing, and thereafter Partap Midha who is dealing with the Medical Wing.
Dear divine soul,

Om Shanti,

I am very happy to read your views. They are definitely helpful. You are right; the answers are there in the Knowledge but what to do sometimes when you are caught up in that big Maya the intellect hardly functions and the mind takes over! However, I am and I will continue to try my best to do it!

Thank you so much for the answer. Please note that I did not mean to say that there is no one who is able to answer this in the BK family, however what I meant was that the issue is not discussed that much openly when it continues to be one of the biggest issues. See, you too have mentioned that I have to persist and I would get the answer ... that is what I was trying to tell that we have to persist, i.e. its not openly discussed. Also, the fact that there are very few souls whom one can approach for these issues and that too they are in Madhuban.

In fact, I knew one very good pukka kumar brother in Gyan for several years. who would talk very openly to all the kumars but now I have lost touch with that brother as he has shifted to another centre in another city. Anyways, I have taken note of your suggestions. Once again thanks!

IBY, *

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Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Oct 2007

There are no answers within the Murlis ... apart from, "Remember Baba" and if it gets too bad, "it is better to get married than go to prostitutes". You are dealing with the advice of a old Victorian Vaishnavite, i.e. Lekhraj Kirpalani.
master creator wrote:I will be very grateful to all of you if you can provide some more practical tips. Thanks.
One of the problems with orthodox BK thought is that it finds it hard or cannot accept that it can learn from non-BK individuals and it perceives ANY other form of psychological or spiritual understanding as limited, ignorant, body-conscious Bhakti.

There are, of course, vast areas of knowledge where BapDada have no clue and it is left for human's to understand and teach themselves about and BKs accept, e.g. science, mechanics, law etc. Where is the line between acceptable human wisdom/knowledge (e.g science) and unacceptable human wisdom/knowledge (e.g. the accursed Bhakti)?

When dealing with the body, we are dealing with biology and psychology which are fairly well advanced schools of thought. Sex is partly of the body and partly of the mind and it dealt with no only by scientists but also "spiritualist" traditions. What study, or credence (acceptance as true or valid) is given to practises that are on the borderline between biological and spiritual, e.g. Taoist or Tantric practises of moving and circulating sexual energy such as those popularized byMantak Chia.

This relates to other discussion we have had about blocked emotional or subtle energies and the official ignorance of subtle bodily energy within the BKWSU.

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suppression and self sovereignity

Post by alladin » 04 Oct 2007

Yes. In Raja Yoga, many good teachings and also a lot of ignorance as well, protected strenuously within the fortress of arrogance. This is why I wrote somewhere else, that in order to grow more, spiritually, broaden my horizon, and benefit my self, I had to get free of the BK shackles. Their attitude of "we know it all, we know better, we are the only ones to know", is a sort of annoying constipation; callous, morbid, narcissistic and leading to some unhealthy space, stopping people from blossoming.

Since the topic is sex, last nite whilst browsing about "akashik" records, I bumped into website: Akashik Records, displaying some of Osho's lecture.

Before and during Gyan, I always considered Rajneesh members as those who are constantly hunting - with the excuse of being spiritual and wearing orange robes and a mala - looking for "easy" partners to get into bed with. This obviously gains them maximum despising from BKs. Osho is pictured as the typical money raising guru, plus the liberal talks and customs about sex in the ashram and by followers. Followers may always exaggerate or misinterpret teachings but some accusations should be formulated after deeper study and pondering, or else one ends up misjudging the whole thing.

With less prejudices on my part, I was able to appreciate some of the things he said. Unfortunately, to BKs, any different opinion is a challenge and has to be put out like a dangerous fire. Well, if they are so sure about the superiority and infallibility of their doctrine, why avoid open discussions about sex? Why avoiding any open sharing of ideas on the topic? Is this the attitude of souls who dwell in high consciousness? Can high chakras ever be threatened by grosser chakras or lifestyles?

Can any true Yogi be unable to purify all energies and activities, whilst sitting on the throne of higher consciousness? Is that SwaRaj throne a place to guide the senses from, or to oppress and deny?

The thing is that transformation is more difficult than suppression. Suppression is a short-cut. Baba calls himself the laundryman, and I am very keen on giving him my dirty laundry in order to get it back washed and even steriilized from lower emotions.

In consumeristic society, however, you just throw away everything; the baby with the dirty water. It is simpler but one may regret, as it can be damaging in the long run. Invoking some discrimination power, could help assisting us in transformation processes.

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Re: Why nobody wants to discuss this biggest test?

Post by bro neo » 04 Oct 2007

golden heart wrote: We have all gone through the same experience, and I consider that Brahma Baba had the severest attacks, in this respect, even at his old age of more than 60 years.
With all the logic in my heart and soul do I so disagree with this statement and Murli point. At best, surely it was just propaganda to give hope to the destitute pathetic abuse hardened addicts and hopeless worshipers of BB. If you spin the Cycle, you can see the soul of BB never went down to the depths of hell that a lot of us went to. He remained purest through out the cycle, unlike us drug addicts, sex crazed sufferers of intense social and family abuse.

In the Avyakt Murlis, it is said Brahma Baba lied about the Subtle Regions for the sake of the Children. The above point surely must be another one of those 'benevolent' incidents.

A more realistic perspective is that Maya is the negative program we acquire in this one lifetime. All of our past lifetimes Karma is revealed in the circumstances we find ourselves in this life; that is if we even want to consider something as skeptical as the BKs concept of rebirth and Karma. BB had a good family, and upbringing. He had a successful career and was surrounded by love his entire life, his Maya would probably look something like this;

Image

compared to Mayas such as mine which looked more like this;

Image

Practical Advise for a BK is to transmutate sex lust in to true love for friends and family and to use the energy for Seva. When we don’t know how to really feel and express the innocent love of awareness towards life and our relationships we are often driven to lust. The fanatical hate that Raja Yoga has towards sex lust should also encourage you to investigate Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous to get real world Yuktis on how to stay celibate.

Lust, sex, and its obsessions are ways of altering and escaping reality. It feels good when life does not. Learning to choose to be in reality and love reality is not as easy as going to your auntie's house.

Also in my last visit to Madubhan, that one building where all the Yogi scientists were staying, they were working on creative ways of combining Raja Yoga with hypnosis and NLP. I don’t remember if they admitted that was what they were doing, but I got hold of the notes from that year’s Creative Science Yogi Convention (or something), I can’t remember the name of what they called it, and after studying NLP, I see that’s what it was. Go into an altered state and reprogram the core beliefs. Do this every day for a month and you should be 'fine'.

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Post by arjun » 04 Oct 2007

master creator wrote:Brothers and Sisters ... please help based on your experiences ... I am not able to discuss this issue with anyone else ... If I go and tell this to my centre in-charge I am not sure what I will be taken as ... as If I am the only one who is facing this issue. Its so funny ... everyone knows that this is the biggest test and even Baba says in Murli but still there is no one with whom I can discuss this issue and seek guidance. Hence I approach this forum for appropriate guidance on this matter of conquering lust and lustful thoughts and feelings.
Dear sister/brother,

Om Shanti. The problem that you have faced or are facing is not strange, but a common experience for most BKs/PBKs, especially those who are young or middle-aged.

Most BK teachers may not be able to give proper answers on this issue (especially to the BK brothers) because they themselves are virgins and may feel shy to speak on this topic. Even the older BK teachers may give advice to BK brothers based on the experiences that they may have heard from older/experienced BK couples.

But in case of PBKs, although they cannot discuss the issues related to sex in an open discussion class with ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit), they can definitely discuss it with him on phone or in personal meetings (after the discussion classes or otherwise). ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) himself also covers many aspects of such issues in the Murlis or in discussion classes. Since issues related to sex are individual specific, ShivBaba's advice (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) may vary from individual to individual.

Some PBKs, who are very specific about Shrimat discuss such issues only with Baba and not with fellow PBKs. But there are many who may not muster courage to speak to Baba on this issue and take advice from fellow PBKs (brothers from brothers and mothers/sisters from mothers/sisters). But ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) says that one should not get disheartened by such obstacles and move forward by learning lessons from the obstacles.

A song also used to be played during the times of Brahma Baba 'hamey un raahon par chalna hai jahaan girnaa aur sambhalnaa hai' (we have to tread those paths where we have to fall and rise). As you have said that committing suicide is not a solution to the guilt feeling that accompanies such mistakes/obstacles. ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) says that such incidents occur due to the shooting of the role that we have played in the past 63 births. Sometimes good reel is played in our drama and sometimes bad reel is played.

From a BK point of view, Avyakt BapDada has given some solutions to these problems, some of which I am quoting below:
  • "The definition of purity is very simple for your children because you have been reminded that the actual from of a soul is always pure. The eternal (anaadi) form is also a pure soul and the form in the beginning is also a pure deity from and the last birth now is also a pure Brahmin life. You feel that building a pure life on the basis of this remembrance is very easy." [Avyakt Vani dated 14/1/79 Pg-513 published by BKs in Hindi and translated by a PBK]

    "All of us are children of one Father and we are spiritual brothers – this unworldly vision destroys the seed bodily vision, i.e. worldly vision, on the basis of which vices are created. When the seed ends then tree of expansion of many kinds of vices ends automatically." [Avyakt Vani dated 6/ /77 Pg-213 published by BKs in Hindi and translated by a PBK]

    "So every brother is Mehaveer (bravest), every sister is a Shakti (consort of Shiva or powerful mothers and sisters). The Mahaveer also belongs to Rama and Shakti also belongs to Shiva. While looking at any bodily human being always look at the souls in the forehead. The eyes should look only at the gem of the forehead (mastak mani). Then what will happen? By looking at everyone as a soul one will automatically become soul conscious." [Avyakt Vani dated 27/4/83 Pg-167 published by BKs in Hindi and translated by a PBK]

    "Do you see with your divine eyes or do you see with the eyes made up of tissues? With the divine eyes one will always automatically see the divine from only. The eyes made of tissues see the skin (i.e. tissues) only. Looking at the skin (chamdi), thinking of the skin whose job is it?" [Avyakt Vani dated 27/4/83 Pg-166 published by BKs in Hindi and translated by a PBK]
Also from a BK point of view a Q&A has also been published in one of the Avyakt Vanis as follows (originally in Hindi but translated by a PBK):
  • Q.No.AV-19: What should one do when one faces any obstacle while treading (the path of knowledge)? What is the reason for the emergence of obstacle? (Avyakt Vani dated 14.03.82, pg.292)
    Ans: When one faces many kinds of papers, then due to the lack of power to face those papers, obstacle is created in making efforts. At such a time, it is important to obtain the cooperation of others. For example, when the battery becomes a little loose (i.e. weak) in the car, when the car does not move on its own, then others are asked to give a little push, isn’t it? So, the soul in whom you have faith, and if you think that you can get help from him/her, then one should take a little cooperation from him/her and move forward. First one should tell one’s matter clearly that it is like this; then one would start moving (i.e. start making efforts again) after getting cooperation because what happens is that – when one reaches such a stage, one is not able to muster courage to obtain cooperation from the Father directly; that is why if you obtain a little cooperation in corporeal form, then you would get help in receiving direct help.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by bansy » 04 Oct 2007

Boys,

If you have problems down under, go and cut it off. Baba will be the Surgeon :P.

Girls,

Well just sew it up ... :cry:.

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give it a cut

Post by alladin » 04 Oct 2007

Hi, Bansy! Could I suggest that the BK org at the Confluence creates the memorial for castrations and even infibulation practises that will occur from Copper Age onwards?? :roll: :wink: Should we try and straighten up such bat?

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Post by jannisder » 04 Oct 2007

:lol:

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Re: Why nobody wants to discuss this biggest test?

Post by bkdimok » 05 Oct 2007

master creator wrote:I am badly beaten up by Maya ... can someone please prescribe any ointment. I understand things like churning knowledge, doing Yoga, reading books can help ... but I want to practically really get rid of this. I also understand that this is part of the sanskar of several births and its showing up ... but how can I get rid of this?
Om Shanti, dear brother. I can express my way of conquering lust. For me there is only one method to control mind. If mind is empty it means that lustfull thoughts can enter there. So I try to fill my mind with remembrance or thoughts about service or thoughts about knowledge or something like this. The main thing for me is to fill mind with thoughts which are OK (in accordance with my aims). Because if mind is empty any thought can come into such mind. Also power to control mind comes from the Father, from remembrance. This is my method and it works.

With regards, Shankar.

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give it a cut square of the wicket

Post by abrahma kumar » 05 Oct 2007

alladin wrote:Hi, Bansy! Could I suggest that the BK org at the Confluence creates the memorial for castrations and even infibulation practises that will occur from Copper Age onwards?? :roll: :wink: Should we try and straighten up such bat?
Yes alladin, that way we can play forward defensively with bat and pad closely together. Our wicket will remain in tact and the bat and ball game can continue.I do not like cricket ... I love it oh yeah.

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Post by arjun » 05 Oct 2007

abk wrote:Yes alladin, that way we can play forward defensively with bat and pad closely together. Our wicket will remain in tact and the bat and ball game can continue. I do not like cricket ... I love it oh yeah.
Just as the game of Cricket is moving from a five day match to twenty-twenty, many Brahmin souls feel that 100 years Confluence Age is too long. :( Twenty-twenty years of Brahma's day and night would have been better. :P Am I right master blaster abk? :lol:

But in this Confluence Age, nothing could be said for sure till the last ball is bowled. :D

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by bansy » 05 Oct 2007

Sorry but cricket is even more difficult than the Murlis when it comes to rules, such as having a 5 day test where 4 of those days rained and the result is a draw on the fifth day :roll: :P Lots of tea and darts in the clubhouse as well as time to study Murlis I suppose.

My previous quip for master-creator did not really help other than to try make the dilemma of his much lighter and not batter himself with it. Having a healthy mind and a healthy body is nothing to be ashamed of. However, as he spoked of "fantasies", this seems to be more of something imagined rather than a physical thing (if wrong, please correct here master-creator) in which case, it may be better to speak to some sex therapist or professional psychologist.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 05 Oct 2007

If only you had seen the remainder of the post - which seems to have disappeared into thin air - but maybe that was the bit that was deemed a 5-day test :wink: or maybe i never saved it. Anyway these youngsters nowadays have got such short attention-spans that 5-day Test matches seem quite beyond them ;)

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Post by tinydot » 06 Oct 2007

ex-l wrote:There are no answers within the Murlis ... apart from, "Remember Baba" and if it gets too bad, "it is better to get married than go to prostitutes". You are dealing with the advice of a old Victorian Vaishnavite, i.e. Lekhraj Kirpalani.
Where does self-gratification fall? Can we say also that it's better to release it yourself than to go to prostitutes?

Master Creator,
As a brother, I don't want you to feel guilty. And so, I would relate some sister's experience. On one instance, there is this one sister who I had known for many years and had been close to me. She told me she used to do self-gratification few times (I don't know how often) in her mid and late 20's, whilst being a BK.

I have seen sisters also watching R-movies when I used to visit BK residences. One instance, in the middle of the "soul-conscious" love making movie scene, one sister stood-up and went to the bathroom. I wonder if she got aroused? That was just my observation.

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Re: Why nobody wants to discuss this biggest test?

Post by tinydot » 06 Oct 2007

bkdimok wrote:Om Shanti, dear Brother. I can express my way of conquering lust. For me there is only one method to control mind. If mind is empty it means that lustfull thoughts can enter there. So I try to fill my mind with remembrance or thoughts about service or thoughts about knowledge or something like this. The main thing for me is to fill mind with thoughts which are OK (in accordance with my aims). Because if mind is empty any thought can come into such mind. Also power to control mind comes from the Father, from remembrance. This is my method and it works.
Yeah, I have been sneaking around in some Hare Krishna temple (it was ex-l who gave this idea, i think, :lol:) for the past three weeks now, to have some nice dinner on Wednesdays and Sundays; and specially last week when one guru was visiting and there was dinner everynight after the night classes.

Master Creator, if you got tired of sitting in Raja Yoga meditation and feel nothing is working to control your thoughts, go to some Bhakti Yoga pure devotional services. If you don't mind doing "lip sync" the chants, then go for it until you past and kill the time. And there is free dinner, too. You just give some donations.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare

If you repeat these words even without accepting it, you would be amazed, that it will plug-up your lustful thoughts. Have done this technique, before I went into BKWSU. I used to go to Chaitanya Mission Group for few months, that was fifteen years ago when I was in my sexually- stimulated early 20's.

May I know what age you are now in between? As you know, it also depends on our biological age, which is a contributing factor in being horny.

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