Why are there no Surrendered foreigners in Madhuban?

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bansy
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Post by bansy » 10 Oct 2007

too many questions
Why Wah Why Wah Why Wah etc.

Sorry if this sounds like an ambulance siren :P.

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alladin
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serviceable

Post by alladin » 10 Oct 2007

Also, Double Foreigner hands have to be used in service in the West and do proselyting, spreading the good news that God has come.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 10 Oct 2007

bro neo wrote:too many questions
The system only works IF you can get people to stop asking questions, stop developing their intellects and cut them off from other influences. Like education.

Westerners are, mostly, too educated, too individualistic and too polluted by such Kali Yugi concepts as democracy, equality and discomfort with caste systems. They are too much trouble to incorporate.

Its a numbers game; Chiefs and Indians. The last thing the incumbent Chiefs need are a new and alien chief caste. Even if they are right and better. They need lots and lots of Indians to oil the machinery. The same applies to the West. To parachute in one sustainable Dididi or Dadada they require a FINANCIAL critical mass that only converting and maintaining natives can provide.

There is no Sugar Baba to financial their global imperialist plans any more ... "you have to, so stay where you are and deal with it" is the message. Even if the country or center-in-charge is killing you spiritually.

Don't think for one minute, when you ask a member of the SS for advice, that they do not have one eye on the bank balance ... and the bank balance will come first, in my opinion/experience.

One of the strangest things for me is that the BKWSU system really does not reward righteousness. It rewards money or money managing, family connections, talents (rather than virtues) and length of service ... even if during that service you have broken serious Maryadas/Shrimat. I don't think they even really rewards outstanding service or ideas. More likely, if they cant suppress them, they just absorb other's intellectual property as their own (vis a vis Prakashmani taking credit for the Million Minutes of Peace ... does anyone know the names of the Westerners that thought it up or the process thought which it became?).

To whom are the Chiefs accountable to? Who can censure them when they need it?

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aishalvova
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Post by aishalvova » 10 Oct 2007

I am hearing from our senior teachers that all kindoms are ready and all places and positions in these kindoms are full. It was talking about Madhuban (ten years ago), when i ask the question; "i would like to live and serve to Baba there" ... So, Moksha, i think that you are behind this game :).

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Post by john » 10 Oct 2007

aishalvova wrote:'m hearing from our senior teachers that all kindoms are ready and all places and positions in these kindoms are full. It was talking about Madhuban (ten years ago), when I ask the question; "I would like to live and serve to Baba there" ... So, Moksha, I think that you are behind this game.
Would be really interesting if anyone could get a quote from BapDada in Avyakt Vani about this. It, to me, sounds preposterous.

Are we uncovering a certain false elitism here?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 10 Oct 2007

john wrote:Are we uncovering a certain false elitism here?
No, the elitism is certainly genuine!!!

Its ridiculous. Its social and mind control. It has no place within Gyan. A tiny self-elect minority is protecting its comfortable position.

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Post by bansy » 10 Oct 2007

I am hearing from our senior teachers that all kindoms are ready and all places and positions in these kindoms are full.
Methinks, here is a lot of manmat, that this message was given to those richer Indians who have been propping up the funds for the BKWSU, that it was better for them to stay put where they are instead of swarming over to Mt Abu, since any one these double passport holders could easily buy up tons of property in India.

The Seniors and Dadis travel for half the year because they need to have special private meetings with these richer benefactors in their local countries, maintain their links and giving them a high status (VIP) status in their BK world. This is why the BKWSU is very keen for normal folks to use their own property as centres, to save costs, as they cannot always pester these rich folks in other countries. After all these rich folks have other businesses to run for themselves. So BK centres are always on the lookout for rich local BKs.

Now, these rich folks are hooked with the BKWSU since it is possible for them to have a nice material life and also a nice spiritual life, something they can do with their money and get something in return. Can be a philanphropist handed on a plate. But since it is easy for them to pull out anytime, the BKWSU keep doing service for these folks and so keep traveling and meeting with these folks. For, of course, if you are already rich in the Confluence Age, it is not much of a big hop to be rich in the Golden Age.

So now the question is what is the necessity for Seniors and Dadis to travel during the summer season, spending money to meet other BKs at centres? Is it so they can remember simple me, you, him and her, or is it to service these rich Indians in various countries? As usual, when they visit the overseas centres, all the BKs and contacts are invited to seminars so they can all receive drishti and toli. You see, the photos of Brahma Baba at the centres do not provide enough drishti for the folks to be intoxicated enough. So better get a "yogi" in town.

The next thing you know is that you never see this "yogi" in town for years, another one would come so it looks like something fresh. Would it not be better for the money to be saved and given to say a few hardup effort making BKs who may wish to go to Madhuban for the first time during BapDada season but are struggling to make ends meet?

Now how many of these richer folks come to class each morning ? Though you'll see them at seminars and events ?

Its all my manmat of course. I have seen this. But there is no need to believe little me.

Well, souls are all equal but some souls are more equal than others.

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Post by tinydot » 10 Oct 2007

bansy wrote:Well, souls are all equal but some souls are more equal than others.
More equal??? Do you mean greater than? :-)

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Post by bansy » 10 Oct 2007

More equal??? Do you mean greater than?
more equal than

It is a paradigm. You can google on "more equal than" and find lots of examples. A drop out of my English classes when some folks got the same marks in a test but some students got a higher rank than another. Our teacher used this idiom. I prefer it to mean my apples for the teacher were not as nice as another student's. :cry:

In the eyes of God, we are all His children. In the eyes of the BKWSU, we are all numberwise. God has already decided which number you are, in fact, He says that all of us are Number 1. There are 8 in the rosary, so the other 7 seats are still vacant. Numberwise but yet we are all Number 1. Maths used to be easy. Maybe this paradigm is the last remaining maths puzzle to be solved, all the other Noble Prize winners have been barking up the wrong tree. The prize is, of course, the inheritance.

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I wouldn't recommend any Westerner to become Madhuban Niwasi

Post by enlightened » 10 Oct 2007

Hi everyone

Whilst on the surface Madhuban is a very special place full of wonderful vibes, I think that many people are not aware of what really goes on there under the surface. It can be a bit like big brother watching you all the time, ready to catch someone out.

With all the domination, slavery, corruption, abuse etc that I and many others have witnessed in Madhuban, I personally would not even recommend that any Westerner even try to become a Madhuban Niwasi. Some of the sisters in charge of certain departments give you such dirty looks sometimes that it makes people feel so uncomfortable. Especially people like Shashiben who is in charge of the accommodation etc.

If you want eat some fruit, some people are provided fruit from the fruit department and others are told to go and get it from the village. Some people are invited to come and dine in the VIP room whereas others are refused.

Many of them use favouritism for certain people and will completely ignore others. There is no equality really. Some surrendered people are provided with free things like clothes, cooked special meals, provided special accommodation, facilities etc, whereas others are refused these things even if they are surrendered.

There is a lot of Money making business going on there, especially with selling properties, health products etc and, yes, some of the most senior brothers like Nirwair are involved in the property selling, as Lalita had mentioned in another mail.

It's not all altruistic service or in the name of God etc. There are only a handful of genuine spiritually minded residents in Madhuban ... as for the rest ...

Iknewit

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Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Oct 2007

Slavery is a very strong word. I would say what defines it is that the victim is powerless and sold into their situation, has become someone else's property. Can you substantiate that allegation?
  • What do you mean? Do you refer to the Bheelis (Bhils), the use of the tribal people? Do we know of any Bheelis that have come into Gyan?
I think if you are going to use words like "domination, slavery, corruption and abuse" you really have to qualify them for readers otherwise you give them the impression that we are dealing with Pol Pot ... or the British Empire in the 18th Century.

Doesn't stuff all go on at a fairly subtle level in comparison to the rest of India?

I agree about the general randomness of principles, I was surprised recently to hear that one BK sister in charge of children (outside of India) actually hit them. Other people's, not her own. And I think readers ought know that BK life is not all squeaking clean as the PR presents it ... but I think we need to focus on clear examples and issues we can raise with the leadership.

This issue of property deals has come up twice now. Again, are there more details ... how has this become widely known? It may just be on a favor and grace level, the BKWSU gaining favors. Or are informants saying that there is personal benefits going on.

Its a very difficult issue ethically but one that goes along with the tendency toward commercialization. Do you think it was fair if the organization was to benefit out of related property development? Of course, where we should shine the light in on the consciousness of the property developing BKs ... if that is who there are. But again, no offense intended, but I think we need more details and less gossip.

Its harsh when one wakes up out of the Honeymoon Period to realise that there are all these realities to face ... like someone paying the bills at the end of the month. And how does this square with Shrimat?

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welcome

Post by alladin » 11 Oct 2007

Hi, Iknewit ( sounds like an eskimo name!!), thank you for your welcomed first post, with whom I happen to totally agree.

As I was mentioning in another post today, unfortunately, even showcase Mbhan is not a c**p -free zone. And BTW, talking about privileges, I and many souls have been ill, therefore needing fruits which are considered as luxury there (as if it was a tiny humble ashram or the cave of a penniless saddhu!!). I had to beg for them. I got out of the fruit department with 1 tangerine at the most and considered as someone spoilt for whom an exception could be made. As long as it stayed within limits and did not become a habit!

Yes, Madhuban is a lot about connections. Something similar could be said about any mafia stronghold.

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Post by arjun » 11 Oct 2007

iknewit wrote:There is a lot of Money making business going on there, especially with selling properties, health products etc and, yes, some of the most senior Brothers like Nirwair are involved in the property selling, as Lalita had mentioned in another mail.
Dear iknewit,

Om Shanti and welcome to the forum.

Any such money making business is strictly prohibited in AIVV. There were two instances where such an activity was suspected and reported to Baba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit). One is when a surrendered PBK brother was suspected of making money by supplying shawls/blankets to the PBKs who came from other cities to the AIVV headquarters. I do not know if he did this for making money or to genuinely help persons in need of such items, but since a suspicion was raised, that brother was prohibited by Baba from indulging in any such activity.

In another case a PBK mother was benefited by an Amway kind of business called RCM in India. If someone is not aware of Amway or RCM, I would like to inform that these companies ask members to purchase a kit for a definite amount and make a definite number of further members to qualify for some dividend. Besides they have to purchase products for household use from that company every month. So, that PBK mother started publicizing the scheme and making other PBKs as members. This used to be done after the daily/weekly class at the mini-Madhubans.

This news reached Baba and he disallowed any such activity in the AIVV premises. The PBKs were free to discuss such activities outside the premises. That PBK mother got upset and is still angry with Baba for having stopped her activities in the AIVV premises.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: welcome

Post by joel » 11 Oct 2007

alladin wrote:Yes, Madhuban is a lot about connections. Something similar could be said about any mafia stronghold.
Oh please, any organization. I don't think we need to apologize for a characteristic so fundamental to human social behavior.

Re: fruit in Madhuban:- I always bought my fruit in town. Eating an entire mango in one sitting was, in Dr. Nirmala's estimation, an indulgence. Wonder what she would think about a half-gallon of chocoate chip coffee ice cream?

:P

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Re: welcome

Post by bro neo » 11 Oct 2007

Thanks joel, looks like a lot of good questions and answers popping up from this discussion.
joel wrote: Eating an entire mango in one sitting was, in Dr. Nirmala's estimation, an indulgence. Wonder what she would think about a half-gallon of chocoate chip coffee ice cream?
Either Raja Yoga reverses the metabolic process of burning calories or the super sized SS are eating a lot more then just mangoes behind closed doors. As a BK it disturbed me why God's most perfect Angels were usually so ... large.

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