Why are there no Surrendered foreigners in Madhuban?

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enlightened
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Post by enlightened » 11 Oct 2007

ex-l wrote:Slavery is a very strong word. I would say what defines it is that the victim is powerless and sold into their situation, has become someone else's property. Can you substantiate that allegation?
Hi ex-l, I agree maybe slavery is a bit too strong, maybe I should say that many are used and taken advantage of.

I have to say that many peoples' experiences cannot really be substantiated because whilst we were are seeing, experiencing and going through those things, we were doing those things because we were either conditioned to do them or because we were told we were doing it all in the name of God (Baba), and we were all doing it in the name of good karma (actions). It's only now that some of us have taken a step back that we are able to have a clearer picture of what has been/is going on in this organisation.

Believe you and me, none of this is gossip. It's first hand experience. Unfortunately, there is no real evidence that many of us can present to the public as a lot of it is in the form of personal traumas that we are now having to live with as a result of what we have gone through

Again, with the property deals, believe me, this is no gossip either. It is going on as I've had first hand experience. However, I cannot provide the evidence as whilst it happened to me, I was a BK and I thought very highly of the organisation and the Seniors and just accepted everything. This was until a BK made off with my money, left town and I was left to pick up the pieces and a half finished job.

ex-l you've mentioned "I agree about the general randomness of principles, I was surprised recently to hear that one BK Sister in charge of children (outside of India) actually hit them. Other people's, not her own." Can you substantiate this or is this also gossip?

You see it's very very difficult to provide evidence for everything we're sharing on this forum because whilst many of these things happened to us we were a BK. We were so conditioned to believe and accept that all BKs are pure and that everyone should be following all the principles and codes of conduct etc.

But as mentioned before, I now realise that really there are only a handful of people who are genuine and really spiritual within the organisation. I would say that as the expansion has taken place within the organisation, as the numbers of it's members have increased, how can anyone really keep a tab on what is going on? Who keeps a tab on the Seniors when they have been given this position of being in charge?

No one really. I think that most people take the law into their own hands at the end of the day and do as they please whilst others who may be genuine bear the brunt of some of these ruthless people.

Whilst Madhuban and the BK organisation in general is a wonderful place to contemplate, reflect and explore the depths of spirituality; unfortunately for many of us, the negative experiences seem to override the positive ones which is why I believe this forum was set up.

Many of us were not being heard by the heads of the organisation or the SS and so the only outlet would be this kind of forum. If the organisation provided a space in which one could really express themselves, their opinions, their concerns, then I don't think anyone would have had the necessity to create a forum of like this.

Thanks to the admins for creating the forum. Believe me, it was the right thing.

Iknewit

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Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Oct 2007

iknewit wrote:ex-l you've mentioned "I agree about the general randomness of principles, I was surprised recently to hear that one BK Sister in charge of children (outside of India) actually hit them. Other people's, not her own." Can you substantiate this or is this also gossip?
Sister K ... in England. From one of the kids under her charge. I am very concerned at the experience of kids growing up under the additional influences of the BKWSU and the stick of "Baba says ...".

Personally, if an individual is not pursuing the public eye I am respectful enough to afford them some privacy in the hope that we can wake up the organization and the problems stop. But where matters are genuinely serious and the individual or organization is courting publicity themselves or on their behalf, then I think it is fair comment to discuss them openly.

By the sounds of it, you appear to be speaking about a fairly serious financial abuse. I think the thing to do is be as specific as you can about it so that at least the BKWSU knows what you are talking about and others can be warned. Personally, I would welcome this forum being used as a sorting office, a "Truth and Reconciliation" service.

Obviously, at the point, we know the BKWSU would rather silence our contribution to their evolution and it is my experience that certain BKs will take things, twist and turn them, and try to use them against us. If someone were to say that the leadership are "masters of illusion" of coverups, then I would wholeheartedly agree with them. I do not wish to point a finger as the genuine followers, merely question the policy makers.

I do not think I have welcomed you onboard before now, so welcome. Thank you very much for coming here. Please contribute all you can to creating a full and complete picture of life within the BKWSU. Perhaps you can join us in the Newcomers forum and make your introduction.

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advise

Post by alladin » 11 Oct 2007

ex-l, thank you for this post, and especially for what you wrote and I am quoting:
There is no Sugar Baba to financial their global imperialist plans any more ... "you have to, so stay where you are and deal with it" is the message. Even if the country or center-in-charge is killing you spiritually.

Don't think for one minute, when you ask a member of the SS for advice, that they do not have one eye on the bank balance ... and the bank balance will come first, in my opinion/experience.
It's years since I've been wondering what's the hidden agend behind SS's advices. You gave the answer. I don't think it's cynical nor paranoid.

The problem/question is; how can adults be tricked into thinking that everything which comes out of SS's mouths is gold mixed with pure intentions and wishes for the "follower's" benefit??? :roll:

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Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Oct 2007

Of course, I should be careful and qualify that. It does not fit every circumstance.

Really what I am trying to do is rid the notion that they are pure, unfettered, unlimited oracles of God devoid of any practical considerations in what they say.

But it is true ... that is the idea we were given about them. Any utterance out of their mouth was God's instructions.

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Post by enlightened » 11 Oct 2007

By the sounds of it, you appear to be speaking about a fairly serious financial abuse
Yes ex-l, thousands of dollars worth of financial abuse by the so called Brother Ved Prakash who used to be in Madhuban as a BK. Guess what, he used to be security guard for Dadi Prakashmani (the late head of the Brahma Kumaris). He then ran away with my money and I think he may have done the same with other people's money. The person that encouraged me to go to him in the first instance was Brother Nirwair.

Brother Ved Prakash (also known as Pehelvan) apparently used to be famous boxer in India!!

So you can put 2 and 2 together and make your own conclusions from that. Likewise, many other so called surrendered Madhuban Niwasis (residents of Madhuban) were involved as I discovered and helping each other out in this profit making business. Most of them are doing some or another kind of business.

Believe you and me, my eyes really opened to the corruption that there is in this organisation on many levels both with this experience and with many others!! This is only a drop in the ocean of corruption!!

Iknewit

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Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Oct 2007

iknewit wrote:Yes ex-l, thousands of dollars worth of financial abuse by the so called Brother Ved Prakash who used to be in Madhuban as a BK. Guess what, he used to be security guard for Dadi Prakashmani (the late head of the Brahma Kumaris). He then ran away with my money and I think he may have done the same with other people's money. The person that encouraged me to go to him in the first instance was Brother Nirwair.
Oh my God, they never cease to amaze me ... and I suppose Nirwair just said, "Om Shanti" and "its your Karma"? What was the official response? Was there an inquiry?

Its laughable that "One of the 8", the son of Emperor Narayan to be, was not intuitive or in tune with "God" for her to realize what this individual was like.

I am really sorry for you. That is another member lost thousands. Its a farce, is not it?

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Post by abrahma kumar » 11 Oct 2007

Incredible!

Welcome to the forum Iknewit.

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Post by arjun » 11 Oct 2007

iknewit wrote:Brother Ved Prakash (also known as Pehelvan) apparently used to be famous boxer in India!!
'pehelwaan' means a 'wrestler' in Hindi.

I hope folks here can understand the treatment meted out by these 'pehelwaans' to the PBKs at the megaprogrammes of BKs in the past.

Of course, these pehelwans are a minority in the Yagya and that most BKs are not guilty of such shortcomings.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by enlightened » 11 Oct 2007

ex-l,

Within this organisation, no one wants to know you when you come across these kind of problems. If a problem like this occurs, then yes, it is very much 'your own karma'. They're not interested in doing any kind of inquiries. They're not interested in helping anyone who has been cheated by a BK, abused by a BK, bullied by a BK, gets sick etc. Maybe some of them kept my money too which is why they don't get involved!! Who knows!!

As most people on this forum have shared, there is no one you can talk to when something of this nature happens within the organisation. It's basically your fault, you got yourself into this mess kind of attitude, so you get yourself out of it. If anything goes wrong then you're the only one to be blamed. No one else seems to be at fault other than yourself.

There is no sort of counselling or welfare for any problems whatsoever which is why many of us end up in a real state whilst the management are having a whale of a time with all those accumulated dollars from people like myself.

Over years and years and years, I have donated thousands of dollars to the organisation, helped out physically, spiritually, mentally, financially etc. to the extent that I was left without a penny at one stage.

The worst thing is that when I stopped going to the BKs, no one and i mean no one has even bothered to contact me to see why I left or to see if I am OK. Nothing. This is how caring, respectful and courteous the management and its team are. When they wanted to use me, they used me then it's just feels like I have been dumped into a rubbish bin and forgotten about. They probably don't even know if I am still alive or dead.

And you know what, with all the conditioning that anything that happens to you it's your own karma, and the fact that we must not express our emotions, especially negative ones, means that many of us have ended up bottling our anger and so many other emotions for years and years and who has ended up suffering, who has ended up in a state, who has ended up in a mess, us!! Who's left to pick up the pieces. Us!!! There is no BK family there for you. There is no friend there for you when you most need them. But you're meant to be there for the BK management and for the organisation when they need you!!!

And the stories go on, the corruption goes on, the abuse goes on, the cheating goes on, right under our and the Seniors' nose.

I feel an utter disgrace that I let them treat me this way and very often I direct the anger to myself for allowing all these things to happen. For allowing these people to use and abuse me. This, of course is so damaging for me as I have been taught for years by the organisation that i must not to get angry with anyone, must not to blame anyone etc.

It's so so sad ... when you look back ...

Iknewit

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Post by abrahma kumar » 11 Oct 2007

bro neo wrote:Why are there no Surrendered foreigners in Madhuban? Because we ask too many questions.
And maybe it would make Madhuban appear too much like an ashram; and the BKs dare not allow such an ordinary label to be attached to its grand complexes. Madhuban a mere Ashram? Never! Much more like Heaven in the making.

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gangster movie in Madhubhan, the unsafe place

Post by alladin » 11 Oct 2007

Jesus Christ!! After reading iknewit's story, I think Madhuban should really be advertised as a place where you can be mugged, a gangster's joint!! And I used to feel so much indignation when they used to expect their "cut" from my train tickets reservations, showing being crossed and becoming uncooperative if they could not have things their usual way! Just because I have principles that go against bribery! But mine was a matter of few rupees. Here you are talking about big bucks!!! Another Kaliyugi ashram indeed, where some innocent slaverybound Yogisouls spread elevated vibes and give thier bones in service, whilst other big shots act like sharks!! :!:

Abuse, bribery, theft, whilst just round the corner some sari-ed sister shames you for not wearing a singlet under the kurta or wearing half sleeve T-shirt instead of long ones, or for exceeding in familiarity with brothers, sitting at the same dining table!!! I want a refund for all the Dollars I spent in plane tickets to go to such a deceiving place! Jah, protect us!!!

A token for all of those who, like Green or Iknewit, were pickpocketed or burgled by the BKWSU, with laughter if possible and healing feelings from a useless BK who wisely or selfishly never gave her bones in service.
Crosby Nash - Take the Money and Run

Take the money and run
Like a thief across a neighbor's yard
Take the money and run
Like a ghost out in the night
Take the money and run
`cause you found out that it wasn't hard
To take the money and run
because you were out of sight

You cannot tell me any more lies
You cannot pull the wool over my eyes
Take the money and run

Take the money and run
`cause the summer sun is sinking down
Take the money and run
`cause the four winds may not blow
Take the money and run
`cause the verdict has been handed down
Take the money and run
because there's no place left to go
You cannot give me any more time
You've already taken too much of mine
Take the money and run

Take the money and run
like a thief across a neighbor's yard
Take the money and run
like a dog out in the night

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Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Oct 2007

abrahma Kumar wrote:And maybe it would make Madhuban appear too much like an ashram; and the BKs dare not allow such an ordinary label to be attached to its grand complexes.
And yet, funnily enough, that is precisely what it says on their American articles of incorporation ...
bro neo wrote:Either Raja Yoga reverses the metabolic process of burning calories or the super sized SS are eating a lot more then just mangoes behind closed doors. As a BK it disturbed me why God's most perfect Angels were usually so ... large.
They need to have such large bodies to stop them taking off and "fly away to Baba".

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Post by tinydot » 12 Oct 2007

iknewit wrote:There is no sort of counselling or welfare for any problems whatsoever which is why many of us end up in a real state whilst the management are having a whale of a time with all those accumulated dollars from people like myself.
Yes, we ended up in the "real state", and they are into "real estate." Welcome to the forum iknewit.

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Post by bro neo » 13 Oct 2007

ex-l wrote:Its a numbers game; Chiefs and Indians. The last thing the incumbent Chiefs need are a new and alien chief caste. Even if they are right and better. They need lots and lots of Indians to oil the machinery. The same applies to the West. To parachute in one sustainable Dididi or Dadada they require a FINANCIAL critical mass that only converting and maintaining natives can provide.

There is no Sugar Baba to financial their global imperialist plans any more ... "you have to, so stay where you are and deal with it" is the message. Even if the country or center-in-charge is killing you spiritually.

Don't think for one minute, when you ask a member of the SS for advice, that they do not have one eye on the bank balance ... and the bank balance will come first, in my opinion/experience.

One of the strangest things for me is that the BKWSU system really does not reward righteousness. It rewards money or money managing, family connections, talents (rather than virtues) and length of service ... even if during that service you have broken serious Maryadas/Shrimat. I don't think they even really rewards outstanding service or ideas. More likely, if they cant suppress them, they just absorb other's intellectual property as their own (vis a vis Prakashmani taking credit for the Million Minutes of Peace ... does anyone know the names of the Westerners that thought it up or the process thought which it became?).

To whom are the Chiefs accountable to? Who can censure them when they need it?
iknewit wrote:And the stories go on, the corruption goes on, the abuse goes on, the cheating goes on, right under our and the Seniors' nose.

I feel an utter disgrace that I let them treat me this way and very often I direct the anger to myself for allowing all these things to happen. For allowing these people to use and abuse me. This, of course is so damaging for me as I have been taught for years by the organisation that I must not to get angry with anyone, must not to blame anyone etc.
True enough. We seem to be bringing into light the hidden or maybe subconscious agenda of the BKWSU. Politics. Their 'altruistic' concern for the welfare of the world and humanity as shown with their endless service and spreading the 'knowledge' that "God has come", may actually be motivated by world domination through the use of spiritual seduction.
Image
The BKWSU...
Image
The 21th century's version of the Roman Senate?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 13 Oct 2007

ex-l wrote:Don't think for one minute, when you ask a member of the SS for advice, that they do not have one eye on the bank balance ... and the bank balance will come first, in my opinion/experience.
Obviously when I said that it did not refer universally to EVERY request for "Shrimat" from the Senior Sisters ... but, in my experience, it does have some influence when coming to, e.g. decisions to do with moving or starting centers etc. I'd welcome the support of others when it comes to this. I wanted to move center as I had no real connection with that center and it was merely an accident I was ended up there. I believed ... I was told to believe ... the SS were giving me Shrimat ... God's word ... telling me to stay. Looking back at all the politics and what was going on at that time, they just did not want BKs defecting and leaving a sinking ship. Even if the place was pretty unhealthy at the time.

What about the decisions to spending money chasing to VIPs etc? OK, Bap-Dada says go find 'mics' but does he really mean VIPs and popstars? How does that square and how does it balance with being Lord of the Poor? What about the decisions of leniency or comforts made to suit such IPs and VIPs in comparison to ordinary BKs?
  • Has that absolutely nothing to do with money?
In this case, does that also not refer to Western BKs in comparison to Indian BKs? My guess the West, even just Indians in the Wests, must be a pretty good source of funding? I do not know, I am asking.

I think both accommodation during Baba's season should be offered strictly on a lottery basis and Madhuban residency on a representative basis. BTW, do the senior in Madhuban share the same accommodation as junior BKs or do they get special arrangements?

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