Let's become open and honest

DEDICATED to BKs.
For those involved with the Brahma Kumaris, to discuss issues about the BKWSU in a free and open manner.
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aishalvova
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Let's become open and honest

Post by aishalvova » 13 Oct 2007

Dear all,

I am very surprised, that no one will not write here about themself; from which place, which country, which centre, their real name ... Being Incognito - it is good for conspiracy in secret organisation but here, i think, we must communicate openly and in an honest way. Or may be I am a little bit stupid here? Anyway, i even think that it was my mistake when i wrote here my name and place.

With good wishes and Om Shanti! Sister Aisha

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tinydot
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Post by tinydot » 13 Oct 2007

aishalvova,

a few members here revealed their identity and are not afraid about the consequences. Imagine a BK living in a center who would reveal his identity here, he could end up being banned by the BKWSU. It's good to take things step by the step. When we can be successful in bringing changes to the BKWSU, perhaps I would reveal my identity in his forum (but different new username, of course).

I would like to think that someday that a critic would post here in this forum, expressing derogatory remarks to the BKWSU, and most forum posters here will simply tell the critic that his criticism had already been resolved; that BKWSU had already accepted their mistakes long time ago, that they are implementing an effective policy to the best of their ability, that the criticism was already a thing of the past and we have already moved on.

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Post by john morgan » 13 Oct 2007

Yes tinydot,

I agree with you. It seems to me that the supreme judge is the Law of Karma. As ever many will consider this a simplistic view. If I speak my truth in honest and responsible fashion at least others know where I am coming from.

It may be that a great weakness in this Forum is its secrecy. At present it is under threat - loss of domain name etc. Were I considering whether the domain name should be frozen or scrapped I would look at the activity of the forum and the people contributing. If I saw people having a "bop" but concealing their identities it would not go well for the Forum's continuance.

It would also be nice to know to whom one is speaking. After all this is not a internet chat line, it is or in some cases can be a serious forum.

Tinydot, Who are you?

Kind regards,

John Morgan

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Post by john » 13 Oct 2007

Well, we don't live in an honest and fair world; and BKSWU is very much becoming part of that.

Initially, I was happy to give my identity. But having seen the dubious tactics of some BKs, especially the 'very' internet savvy ones, I now see it as preemptive witness protection :lol:

Besides, we are all souls are we not? We can forget the body-consciousness of identity and bring true equality, nothing to live up to, nothing to live down to.

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 13 Oct 2007

john morgan wrote:If I speak my truth in honest and responsible fashion at least others know where I am coming from ...

Well, unless Morgan is your middle name, was there a BK John Morgan back in the Tennyson Road days? Although you got your dates wrong, the history books say no but I accept you as you are, your truth and position will be clear by what you write. We need to avoided being sucked down to the level of personalities and keep up to the level of impersonal values and objective facts.

Tinydot is absolutely correct and other forum members ... including active and surrendered BKs ... have commented on their experience of;
  • singled out and picked out by the SS for their social associations within the BK family,
    banished from BK centers for merely attending an alternative spiritual group,
    sidelined from promotion,
    files held on them,
    had private letters sent to the organization then circulated by zones-in-charge (or possibly Madhuban)
    and in India kidnapped and beaten in the case of the PBKs, many of whom sustain good relationship with and have support within rank and file BKs
... all of which has happened in numerous continents over a period of decade ... and all of which happens absolutely without any accountability or address from the self-appointed elite.

To suggest that the BK elite does not operate what for all intent and purpose is equivalent to a spy ring or intelligence gathering operations, is either utterly naive ... or you are part of it! This tack you are taking is identical to one voiced in the correspondence with Sister Jayanti thread.

I am also sorry to see ... again from a pro-BK supporter ... the small mindedness and negativity that can only perceive this forum to be a place to have a "bop" at the BKs. Can you tell us the independent mechanism by which we or BKs can raise our grievances without fearing retribution?

If you are being honest, perhaps you have just been out of mainstream BKWSU for too long ... Personally, until the SS are held equal and accountable by some independent body, I would not suggest to any BK or forum member to reveal ANY personal details whatsoever. However, the mere existence of this forum is bringing about positive change within the BKWSU and, I am sure, making them more cautious. Ultimately, it will have to be accepted by the BKWSU as part of the process of change.

I would like to point out, contrary to what the BKs discussed, many organization such as the United Nations for example do actually run a confidential ombudsperson systems which allows for anonymity to look into serious claims and complaints, so do governments etc. As John says, "witness protection" schemes.

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tinydot
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Post by tinydot » 13 Oct 2007

john morgan wrote:Tinydot, Who are you?
john wrote:Well, we don't live in an honest and fair world; and BKSWU is very much becoming part of that. Initially, I was happy to give my identity. But having seen the dubious tactics of some BKs, especially the 'very' internet savvy ones, I now see it as preemptive witness protection :lol:

Besides, we are all souls are we not? We can forget the body-consciousness of identity and bring true equality, nothing to live up to, nothing to live down to.
John Morgan,

I totally agree with john.

Tinydot

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 13 Oct 2007

John Morgan wrote:It may be that a great weakness in this Forum is its secrecy. At present it is under threat - loss of domain name etc. Were I considering whether the domain name should be frozen or scrapped I would look at the activity of the forum and the people contributing. If I saw people having a "bop" but concealing their identities it would not go well for the Forum's continuance.
Dear brother,

Om Shanti. The main aim of this forum is to provide information related to BKWSU and its offshoots or its ex-members and their beliefs. As long as this aim is fulfilled without revealing one's identity, and as long as the veracity of this information could be verified/cross checked by anyone, I think revelation of the true identities should not be a big issue.

But the fear expressed by some of the members above regarding revelation of their identities is also true. This fear is also to some extent due to the past record of BKWSU and its present attitude towards this forum.

And if real identity is that much important (to develop faith), private mails and emails are always there for this purpose.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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alladin
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totalitarianism and resistance

Post by alladin » 13 Oct 2007

If this is a Forum, why should it differ from any other Forum on which members adopt nicks and everybody is easy about it and doesn't consider it scandalous??

It is obviously easy for ex-s who decided to distance themselves from the BKs for good to say, "I am such and such, from XY country" but all sorts of posters show up here. Some still go to class or have some contact, cooperate, etc ... so I don't see what the big deal is about real names or not. Let's practise some more soul-consciousness, go beyond name, forms and labels and maybe make a nice list of good reasons why BKs fear retaliation; being judged or banned from a center if they just show an independent mind/attitude, let alone daring to criticize!

It's not paranoia or being unfair, it's realism. Any opponent to a totalitarian, violent regime, will remain underground organizing a resistance and will possibly reveal their identity only once expatriated or exiled to some friendly place 1,000s of miles away! Even then they may be at risk, just like Afghani or Algerian women activists, that in order to continue their writings and press meetings have to change house every night. Sure, it's a metaphor but not a total exaggeration. And since we all studied Raja Yoga, we have learnt the power of thoughts and vibrations, good and bad.

So, why should one want to expose him/herself to the SS & co's bad vibes?

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Post by john morgan » 14 Oct 2007

Thanks for giving my posts so much attention.

It was Denise who began my 7 day course. Charlie (I think Hogg) and Simon were from Australia. Aiden was also a student. Nicholas Christou a senior brother.

Sudesh Dadi janaki and Jayanti were also there when I first came. I saw Biddy and Maureen Goodman come and at times met John Kane who did not seem to be a regular student. I left the BKs after going to Madhuban, I could see marvellous qualities in everyone else but they did not seem to be in me. No one explained that the reason I could see such qualities was that they were growing in me or if they did I did not understand. Prior to Madhuban I had been working on the decorating in the newly acquired St.Gabriels Road.

As regards current contact with BKs, I have none. Or rather you are it! Should the BKs invite me to morning class, I would go and give it another try.

So all I have in this connection is the memories of the now distant past and the knowledge of that time. Raja Yoga has deeply affected my life and I am grateful for it. I know what holiness is, have a small insight into yogic life and the importance of right thought. If there is no record of me in Tennyson Road history it matters not, though I have written to the Sisters apologising for giving them such a difficult time all those years ago and thanking them for their extraordinary efforts on my behalf.

What is now important are the qualities I express in day to day living, a little of the knowledge is alive in me and there is a long way to go. In future the ability to share peace would be invaluable, soft and gentle, imperceptible, backing up words of encouragement and hope. It is not in me to say to anyone I know God and you don't.

All this is a far cry from the picture painted on this forum which is a matter of concern to me. It seems that I should look and learn and help if I can. If what is said is true, I should have the time as using my own name here will have ensured that future contact with the BKs is not an option.

Kindest regards to all,

John Morgan

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 14 Oct 2007

john morgan wrote:All this is a far cry from the picture painted on this forum which is a matter of concern to me. It seems that I should look and learn and help if I can. If what is said is true, I should have the time as using my own name here will have ensured that future contact with the BKs is not an option.
I think you will be fine now. In fact, I think you will get even better treatment now because they have to be seen to be good. I reckon you might even have your Murli supply resurrected. Please try it and let us know what happens! I'd be equally interested at your impression of the organization if you were to go now. You will be offered a trip out to the Oxford Mansion and probably get to revisit Madhuban ultra-quick.

Yes, despite being who I am, I understand entirely where you are coming from. I am sorry for the bumping landing and coarse truths. Unfortunately, the vast majority if not all of what we are talking about here has validity and I think part of many of our problems is that we find it hard to accept and incorporate it with the teachings. For me, personally, it is that the Seniors lied to me, led me on and were covering up all this stuff we have discovered since. Its existence is inarguable now.

I think you had a very lucky experience and that those times were a sort of little Golden Age in Western service. Stick with us and give us a chance.

I wonder if they kept the attendance registers to the Murli class that they used to keep at that time. Your name will probably still be on there!

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Post by joel » 14 Oct 2007

john morgan wrote:Thanks for giving my posts so much attention.
Our pleasure. Nice of you to share your story.
[My personal experiences are] a far cry from the picture painted on this forum which is a matter of concern to me. It seems that I should look and learn and help if I can. If what is said is true, I should have the time as using my own name here will have ensured that future contact with the BKs is not an option.
The big picture of the BKWSU activities includes much which we, as individuals, never encountered. Surprising to some. I wouldn't worry about your name being here. I am posting in my name, yet continue to receive invitations to center events.

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Post by arjun » 14 Oct 2007

John Morgan wrote:All this is a far cry from the picture painted on this forum which is a matter of concern to me. It seems that I should look and learn and help if I can. If what is said is true, I should have the time as using my own name here will have ensured that future contact with the BKs is not an option.
Om Shanti. As per ShivBaba's directions to BKs regarding ex-BKs, they should be more than eager to accept you back in their fold, but given your revelation through this forum, I suppose they would be extra careful in their dealings with you. Or may be they would persuade you to either quit this forum or to be less active.

I, like ex-l would be very much interested in knowing their response to your possible request for supply of Murlis (preferably through emails). Even if they supply Murlis to you, they may put a rider of not passing it to anyone else.

Kind regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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aishalvova
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Post by aishalvova » 14 Oct 2007

Like John Morgan remembered the golden years in Europe, i remember those happiest days my bramin life. Through our sisters from Bharat, we always been very closed to Indian bramin family. We had so much care and inspiration from the Dadis (Dadi Janki, Dadi Gulzar, Dadi Prakashmani, from Bhaisahab Jagdish and from many very sweet and spiritual brothers and sisters in Delhi).

I was so close to Baba, and all my life was just for this study and service. You cant even imagine how many people received benefit from this study in Russia. And if be honest, sisters Santosh and Suddha, brother Vijai are very faithfull and strong instruments ... But just because time is coming, Drama goes on sato becomes rajo and tamo. Now we have this stage in Yagya. And any way, I am ready to stay with my family in Russia. But just i need be humble before Didi, and this thing is impossible for me now ...

About my question - why you all hidden. I think that you are all good people, but you have something which you need to hide. Only I think that if we have communication and we are like brothers and sisters, then we must to learn become open. Simplicity is very spiritual quality, is not it.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 14 Oct 2007

aishalvova wrote:But just I need be humble before Didi ... then we must to learn become open. Simplicity is very spiritual quality, is not it.
We wish it was just as simple as that.

Be cautious. Perhaps the fault is not with you and the system has to change again. Often we are made to think and feel this and in such a way we are controlled and exploited. Sometimes standing up for one's rights, others rights and making an ethical stand is more important. Courage and confidence may be the virtue required. Likewise maturity to look at the organization as it is and accept the reality of it.

What do you intuitions say is right and wrong? What happened to you aisha?

As alladin said, in most forums people adopt nicknames for no reason whatsoever. It is just a bit of fun and a chance to express a different part of your personality. Unfortunately, there has been a bit of a reaction against the attack by some BKs and the BKWSU.

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aishalvova
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Post by aishalvova » 14 Oct 2007

Nothing happen to me. Just i feel that i do something wrong here, and not because i put my name but may be because this forum is not very creative for spiritual development. Sorry for these words. Really, i give love to everyone. And, of course, i understand that a forum is not place for development. May be I am not so "mature" like most people here. I and my friends were very impressed by new informations which we could find here. But i would like to find perspective for my study in BK and afraid that it cant to happen through this virtual space.

Light and love for everyone! s.Aisha

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