Confluence

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sparkal
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Confluence

Post by sparkal » 17 Jun 2006

We have been informed that three rivers are joining together and becoming one at this time.
  • Can anyone give a brief description of these 3 rivers?
    What does each river represent?
    What 3 things are comming together now?

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Re: CONFLUENCE

Post by fluffy bunny » 18 Jun 2006

sparkal wrote:We have been informed that three rivers are joining together and becomming one at this time .
Can anyone give a brief description of these 3 rivers ?
What does each river represent ?
What 3 things are comming together now ?
According to the scriptures Sangam refers to the place of meeting of the three rivers, or the three river goddesses, which make up the holy Sangam: the Ganga, Yamuna, and the mythical river of knowledge known as Saraswati. This is in city of Prayag (Allahabhad), the place where the Kumbh Melas are held.

You will probably have to invite a PBK for a brief* explanation what the symbolic meaning of that is.

For anyone that wants to warm up their Bhakti sanskars, or appreciate a good musical score ;

http://www.aboriginalproductions.com/me ... index.html

[ * beware, you had better stipulate what *brief* means ]

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Post by arjun » 18 Jun 2006

Om Shanti.

ex-l has given a good explanation from the lokik point of view.
From the BK point of view these rivers represent the living rivers of knowledge, i.e. Mothers and Sisters who are instrumental in spreading the Godly knowledge.

From the PBK point of view also these rivers represent the liviing rivers of knowledge (chaitanya Gyan nadiyan), but as part of the Advance Knowledge it is explained that there are specific souls (mothers/sisters) within the Brahmin family which play the roles of living Ganga, living Saraswati and living Yamuna.

Although BKs say that all the BK sisters are living rivers of knowledge. But in one of the Avyakt Vanis it has been said that a (living) river is a river (of knowledge) only until it has connection with the ocean (of knowledge). If such rivers do not have any connection with the ocean then the river becomes a pond or a drain containing stagnant or stinking water. Since 1969, the BKs do not have a direct connection with the Supreme Soul or the His sustenance in corporeal form, just as in the time of Brahma Baba. So can they be considered to be the true living rivers of knowledge.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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flowing rivers

Post by sparkal » 20 Jun 2006

Thanks.

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Post by aimée » 22 Jun 2006

Sparkal,

I don't think that the explanation of Arjun is abusive. To think that God may have decided to go on a bit longer in another Chariot seems rather logical, why would he leave the task to human beings? We need him here right now with us, to talk to us, to speak about our difficulties and to have answers, and to have a practical relationship with him. Why would that be the only privilege of those who got to know him in the first Chariot? What would that make us? Just unlucky ones who missed the train?

You can say that you have a personal relationship with God, in your feelings and meditations, and that is suficient for you, but for nothing in the world I would miss the experience I am having now, with the one I consider (I realise this is my point of view) as ShivBaba, who helps me in a very practical way. Saying that, there is no question of PBK being superior to BK, we all have a part, and there are baddies and goodies in both sides, and knowledgefull and Bhakti people in both sides, and sweet, pure, angry, careless, carefree, depressed, happy souls in both sides. We all are necessary to do the shooting of the broad drama.

With sincere good wishes from my heart to my brother

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Post by sparkal » 24 Jun 2006

Glad to here your good news of experiencing :idea: .

Whatever I said, I do not think that there is just one Chariot ( BB ) and that anyone who comes after 1969 has missed the boat. If people are feeling this way , then perhaps there is a need to find out the source of such feelings. If you want to meet BB, that one is there in the Subtle Region , and always has been. BapDada has said that, when in madhuban, meet me in the Subtle Region. The soul cannot exist in this material world as such. I feel that souls are waisting their time feeling that they missed out. It is a lack of self respect even.

Murli says, have one eye on the Soul World , and one eye on the Golden Age. So, looking back is not part of the teachings.

Anything can happen. My personal view is that, Shiva could step into any instrument soul in the Subtle Region and use them as an instrument OR Chariot, in theory at least. Yours and other's experience is just as valid now as it was back then. How do you know that you were not there then? (Depending on age of course).

Peace

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Post by john » 24 Jun 2006

If Shiva does come amongst the BKs why has the knowledge not progressed in decades?

Having left BKs some decade and more ago, and last year looking back into it I was completly dumbfounded to find out nothing had changed in knowledge.

What I found in PBK Murli clarifications I was expecting to see from the BKs advancement in knowledge, but it just wasn't there in the BK camp.

Shivas part is for 100 years confluence, to me a part does signify played on the drama, not in some other region

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Post by aimée » 24 Jun 2006

Because we are all thinking in our own subjective way, can we really guide ourselves in the end of Iron Age, with safety, with such an aim we have to change into a deity? We can have visions, but in the Murlis it is not generally well spoken about, Baba (in Lekhraj Kirpalani) often says it is a tradition of Bhakti. And if anyone can be a Chariot, who could we believe then? For me, the trust I have in this ShivBaba now is the knowledge.

The knowledge I got during the bhatti was mindblowing. The first time I read a clarification from the website (which does not exist any more), it felt as if the words themselves had energy, this piece of photocopy was jumping at me with energy. The link I have with Baba (in Virendra Dev Dixit) is really practical, with specific answers on specific questions. I did have indications as a BK, in the Murlis, in a book I would open on the right page, or even a vision/dream, but never this very practical help. For me the Subtle Region is the deep state of churning, when I am not aware any more of this physical world.

I do completely understand your point of view as well, but for me meditating on a point of light is not enough, I need to feel my Father near me, on my level, on the physical plane. But I certainly have met Brahma Baba or Dada Lekhraj in my last birth, as a BK I had a lot of love for him, and I still have because he is now playing a role.

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simplicity

Post by sparkal » 27 Jun 2006

It may be a good point to remind ourselves of certain things. There is only one item of knowledge. I am a soul.

The reason the Father comes in the first place is to make us soul conscious, then goes again. That is our aim. The Father does not need us, a such, it is we who need the info which that one brings. One little point.

So, we have the soul/self, then there is all this knowledge which orbits around it. When we churn, we can go as far as we like in any direction, then return to the seed, the point, the one and only simple item of knowledge, experience, and realisation. At the Confluence Age, we find out who and what we are, theen everything else orbits around that. Everything else could be considered debatable, for a healthy mind.

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Re: simplicity

Post by howiemac » 27 Jun 2006

sparkal wrote: There is only one item of knowledge.
This is nonsense. Knowledge is a vast realm.
So, we have the soul / self, then there is all this knowledge which orbits around it.
Which, according to you, is not knowledge? Language is a weak form of communication to start with - it is very easy to make language completely meaningless - an old trick of Zen monks, and indeed of Brahma Baba ... So, correct me if i am wrong, you are saying:

Gyan = "I am a soul".

And I seem to remember you saying before, something to the effect that:

Shrimat = "remember me".

Such simplistic definitions are certainly very easy to remember, and I am not denying that you are hitting what seems to me to be the MAIN points of Gyan and Shrimat, but there is actually much more to Gyan and, I suspect, at least a little more to Shrimat ...

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*

Post by sparkal » 28 Jun 2006

KNOWLEDGE-EXPERIENCE-REALISATION.

When we experience the knowledge, it brings deeper knowledge on the scale of the experience. Knowledge and experience, or Yoga/med if you like, are like two wings. I would not want to fly on a plane with one wing.

So one feeds the other, or they both co - operate to bring balance. We then realise the experience through becoming the embodiment of the experiences. So, I guess it is possible after all to knowledge the experience as you point out.

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Post by aimée » 29 Jun 2006

In a way it is true, being soul conscious is the ultimate truth. But what does it mean to be soul conscious, it is a deep, deep , deep subject, and there are many ways to climb this mountain. Once at its peak, we will forget all the knowledge and experiment the pleasure of being a soul. But also if we are beings, it must be important to know which role I am playing as an embodied soul. In Kaliyug certainly the quality of all of us souls in bodies, is pretty poor, and we have difficulties to think straight, because ... we are too body conscious! Even if we manage to understand more and more what being soul-conscious means, we are pretty rusty.

The way we can achieve perfection is to plug to the main, how do we do that? Then it is up to each individual, and somehow, we create our destiny in the broad drama according to what we decide to do to purify ourselves. Any ways is respectful, because we need to have a variety of us, otherwise we would be like clones. Wouldn't we?

For me churning knowledge is such an amazing journey, and on my own I would not be able to do that.

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confluence clones

Post by sparkal » 01 Jul 2006

I doubt very much whether Shiva comes with the intention of creating clones.

I have however seen a large group of Russians being marched around Madhuban, being kept away from "Westerners" in case we infected them with our poisonous independent attitudes. Albeit maybe 12 years ago. We can out grow the institutionalised thing. There is nothing wrong in that. It may even suggest progress.

There is no safety net in the BKs for souls "leaving Gyan". It is something which you do not do, according to the Murli. This is using God to bolster your own lack of understanding and insecurity on the path from my point of view. I am a clone of the Supreme Soul at my essence. That is WHO, as in personality, I am charged with becoming like at the Confluence.

To model yourself on the BKs, or any other religion, (couldn't resist) is OK for so long, But it is not Shrimat. We must keep taking those steps forward, or the soul is not being nourished. As for no new knowledge for years, there are still new comers, it would not be fair for Bap-Dada to start going deep at this point. The essence of the knowledge is in the Sakar's, it needs to be churned.

Advanced knowledge come through especially with the teacher, or churning and working it out yourself, otherwise, you may put down anchor.

Peace ...*

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Post by aimée » 03 Jul 2006

The essence of the knowledge is in the Sakar's, it needs to be churned.
True, totally true, unfortunately in the BK classes who takes the Murli and studies it thoroughly? No one, every senior is only adding their own manmat, using one or two words, maybe a sentence quoted from the Murli. It is not a good example set to the others, to churn the Murli ...

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Post by bindi » 04 Mar 2007

I will try to be brief as I know for myself that just don't bother reading the very long posts, which is a shame because i am sure everyone writing them has something worthwhile to say but i just wish they would try to shorten them and if someone wants a long detailed answer maybe they could be sent by private message.
I feel that souls are waisting their time feeling that they missed out. It is a lack of self respect even. Murli says, have one eye on the Soul World , and one eye on the Golden Age. So, looking back is not part of the teachings. Anything can happen. My personal view is that, Shiva could step into any instrument soul in the Subtle Region and use them as an instrument OR Chariot, in theory at least
Can you specify what you mean by lack of self-respect exactly? I, personally, do not feel that I wasted my time wanting to experience god in a living form because that is exactly what I had been searching for before doing the basic course. Then the more Murlis I read gave rise to questions and when I wanted to know the answers, of course, I was told that it was because I lacked faith. They failed to understand that it was because I wanted to fully understand so that I could do service.

I would like to say that you cannot just give one Murli point and then not correlate it with another. As you say he is the Ocean and so he has given us a lot. There is a Murli point which refers to the fact where it is said "I do not enter subtle bodied Brahma". I don't have the exact words but I am sure someone will put me right!!!!

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