What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli.

Post by joel » 04 May 2008

john morgan wrote:There can be a definite magic in hearing the Murli. It is one thing to logically dissect analyse etc, it is quite another to take ones mind to the time and place where it is spoken. I personally preferred the Sakar Murlis. I would imagine Brahma Baba sitting on his Guddhi, Shiva Baba inside his forehead and together they would speak the song of creation of the new world. Somehow I was there, bliss would pour through me, the inspirations, the recognition, the significance of it all made listening to the Murli the highlight of my day. This did not happen every day but it happened quite often. I would make effort during the day and the barometer of how I was doing was the experience of listening to the Murli.
The way you describe it, John, is quite congruent with the joyful experiences I had listening to the Murli during my years as a BK. Taking good from the morning class is a kind of art and a skill. Some on this forum call that "brainwashing." I wanted my brain to be cleaned of all the accumulated dirt!! That I am in a different chapter of my life now doesn't negate those good times, the enjoyment of hearing whoever it was speaking riff off of the lines of an old film song. Hearing Dadi K read the Murli, her own rich resonances and remembrances were something tangible. The words would ring in my mind as clear as a bell. I only left when I began to feel that my core, my deepest identity, beliefs, wounds, and dreams were largely untouched by my years of focused efforts, and seeing the BKs teachings as fundamentally inconsistent with my inner realizations of who I am.

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by john morgan » 04 May 2008

Hello Joel,

If someone asked about my inner realisations of who I am I would tell them that I am work in progress. There is not much thats "fixed in concrete" in me. Because of the BK practice of banning shunning laying down the law etc. It is necessary to look elsewhere for tools with which to progress. The whole thing is teach yourself anyway. Even so the BK model of different states of virtue, closeness to God etc is very useful for me even now. To take one thought and hold it in mind, to go throught the different levels of that thought can be an interesting process.

If the BK wish to be different they do not or did not talk about meditation with seed and without seed. Nor do they seem to mention concentration meditation and contemplation. The knowledge is a tool, every aspect of it is designed to enable the aspirant to lead a virtuous pure and happy life. I have said it before and I reiterate. Teachers have a responsibility to teach, if they cannot teach properly students will leave.

Let's take one thought "a living point of light, full of all desirable qualities" I then imagine myself coming closer and closer and starting to experience those qualities. In my mind at any rate, more peace, more strength emerges. So what am I doing? Meditating!

Can there come a time when I am merged with this point in as much that I experience its qualities without doing anything?Yes! So whats the problem? Sanskaras and Karma are one answer.

The meditation I have described can be very powerful. My error in my BK days was to try to make the transition in one leap. The BKs did not discern this. So what is a better way to proceed? To take ones time, to keep in mind the importance and responsibility of the task and do it in small then bigger and bigger chunks.

You describe your essential self as remaining the same, could this be because your meditation did not grow in strength and power and depth? BKs should experience a complete self transformation as they practice. Another idea. We have a mind and heart, if what we are is focused we can become like Bap Dada but so many people have never experienced this focus in their lives and do not have the slightest inkling that supersensuous joy exists. Many people's energies are very diffused so they experience states of mind such as apathy depression anxiety worry blame etc.

There are many spiritual schools, some better than others. Is it possible to feel like an angel giving God's strength to others in a school other than the BK University? Yes! it is not an exclusively BK domain, there are other yogis who are studying a very similar study. The proof is whether it works or not. That the BK are remarkable no one can deny, many people change their lives for the better with them, the Seniors have great strengths. But it is also possible to be there for many years and experience little change. The reason for this is the degree and type of individual effort.

The BKs do not wish to teach me, that is their perogative. I am way beyond floundering in feeling rejected or unworthy. It is no secret that my study affected me deeply and that I wish to continue and will continue with or without them. Good Wishes to the BK, I say. In the unlikely event of me being able to smooth their path a little, I will after all they are Gods Children too.

Seriously though, there is much work to do in this world, so many do not realise who or what they are, ordinary people are content with so little, they would certainly be more discontented if they even dreamt of the possibilities open to them. Discontent can lead to awakening. We can all play a part in waking up the world - just become an alarm clock. :D

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by tete » 04 May 2008

Joel and John Morgan,

You two rock on the spiritual aspect, I would have joined had you two been teaching! It is so refreshing to see that some can keep some of the positives and continue on.
:D

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by john morgan » 04 May 2008

Thanks Tete,

Your heartfelt compliment is very warming.

I wonder where Sister Jannisder is. Sister Jannisder, do you still feel so angry, is your blood still boiling?

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by jannisder » 04 May 2008

Still here and following your posts with great interest.

Guess it is how we all "translate" it, i probably just see the bad stuff that you overlook because you are in Yoga all the time and you don't have to think. See what you have to do for all the promises in heaven :| But only on some conditions, heaven is yours. Conditionally, not unconditionally.

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by john morgan » 04 May 2008

Hello Sister Jannister,

First of all, no. We, or at least I am not in Yoga all the time. In fact, by BK standards, the times that I have truly been in Yoga are rare. I can appreciate that the knowledge which is vast and wide ranging could make some people very angry. There is such a lot of it to weigh, consider and put into practice or even reject, the choice is ours, we are in control. Whether a person accepts the knowledge or not we all have a responsibility to make the best we can of our lives. In fact it is very much to our advantage to do this. For example, a life where peace is the the dominant feeling is much better than a life full of anger. Please be aware Sister Jannister that I am writing this for myself, as well as you, there is no great distance between us.

For me, a breakthrough came when I realised that it is through our thoughts that we create. I was so busy reacting to the world and what was going on in it that I did not just take the time to sit and think just one thought. I am not going to tell you what to think, just pick a thought about a quality that you don't seem to have. Sit down with lots of time and think the thought in different ways, slow the thought down speed it up, think each word separately then each word together, think it in different ways. If you experience nothing thats just fine, the next day sit down and do it again, no effort no strain just a very quiet attention, use no force, very very gentle. It may take a day a week or a month thats fine, you have lots of time. Five minutes or so each day, its an experiment, you are covering new ground. A simple thought is best. One thing learnt well is worth more than a smattering of everything.

Once you find just one good quality that you can return to whenever you wish you can look at other areas of your life. Perhaps you will decide that this quality is not serving me. Then watch it, watch how the quality comes out in you, notice the triggers that set it off. Then put something more useful in its place, go slowly, be very gentle, very kind, very loving. Take your time, you are replacing one mental activity with another, there is so much time. I like patience. I think, you do not have to of course, "I am taking my time and making everything clear" and patience grows in me. I know that if I am very patient results will come quicker though I never focus on the results, just on the patience.

Never think, Sister Jannister, that others are so far ahead of you that you can never catch up. This is negative thought. So here I am not telling you what to think but telling you what not to think :D

The world of causes is a very good place to be, first we learn to control ourselves in tiny steps, later we can for example meet a person and give them the same respect we have created for ourselves. People respond very favourably to real respect coming out of the blue. Someone who listens, who cares, who stops for them, and what do you want from them? Just to listen and care and stop for a while..thats all. To create good causes is what living is all about, be a good influence, never instill or try to instill negativity in others and you will be happy.

So, Sister Jannister, I certainly needed what I have written, whether it it for you or not is up to you. Notice that God Heaven the soul or even the Murli have not been discussed here. There is a right time to pick things up and a right time to put them down, you are in control of your thoughts and attention, use them well, the energy there is life itself.

In a way, you are already doing what I have talked about. The difference between your first and last post is great. Keep up the good work :D

Kindest regards,

John

ps Thanks for bringing this up in me :D

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by sakaash » 04 May 2008

Hi john,

having trouble sleeping again - cannot quite figure out why, but I just read your last entry and it has soothed my heart and calmed my nerves ... you sure you're not a BK :wink:? Something about being patient with myself etc etc really does resonate with me. I often hear that time is short in the Murlis, but I guess that has been the case for a long time, so taking time to create the right thoughts and atmosphere is a very good idea.

I did that a lot in my very early days. Those were golden days, I spent a lot of time contemplating and meditating and often wondered why it was, that whenever we had guests they would always end up in my room ... the smallest room in the house! Someone told me it was the vibe! The thing is back then I was so content and easygoing, life as a BK was so good for me, and now so many tests come my way and the past has seriously come back to haunt me - I guess now I should hold on to God even tighter than I did before!

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by john morgan » 04 May 2008

Hi Sakaash,

I am sure the best is yet to come for you. Not sleeping happens to me too. I don't trouble about it too much, there are those yogis and others with sleep disorders who never get a good nights sleep, we're so lucky. I keep a pile of books by my bed, the last one I looked at was Journey to Lhasa by Alexandra David-Neel. Its the story of how she sneaked into Tibet and her adventures there. I am only on page 49 so I cannot say much about it.

Not now, but soon you could write in a little more detail about what is currently happening with you and how the past has come back to haunt you. I cannot guarantee being able to help though sometimes another perspective is useful.

As regards holding on tighter to God it may be that if you trustingly let him hang out with you you'll get to sleep at lot sooner :D :D :D

Hear from you soon, I hope
Pleasant dreams

John

Ps there is a private messaging system here, if that makes it easier to talk.

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by arjun » 05 May 2008

Om Shanti. A point of relevance to this thread is that all the lines that appear in the Murlis should not be taken in a literal sense. Some also have a metaphorical meaning, even from the BK point of view. Take for instance the underlined portion of the following point:
162.
“One must write his/her chart. How long do we remain in Yoga? It is not as if everyone would write chart regularly. No, they become tired. Actually, what should be done? One should see his/her face in the mirror everyday; then one would know that – are we worthy of getting married to Lakshmi or Sita or will we become subjects? It is told to write charts only to increase the speed of making efforts. And one can also see as to how long I remembered ShivBaba? The entire daily routine comes in front of us. Just as we remember the entire lifespan from childhood onwards, don’t we? So, can’t we recollect a day’s chart? One must check as to how long do we remember Baba and the cycle? By practicing this we can get threaded in the Rudramala very soon.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 04.01.08, pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

Here it is implied that one should check one's stage in one's mind to see whether we are worthy of getting married to Lakshmi or Sita or not? The above line cannot be taken in a literal sense. In the same way there are many other points, which when read by a non-BK (especially a non-Hindu) can give a very different meaning.
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: What is so wonderful about the Murli?

Post by jannisder » 05 May 2008

But what about this.

“One must write his/her chart. How long do we remain in Yoga? It is not as if everyone would write chart regularly. No, they become tired.

If I do not follow, I am not worthy?

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by john morgan » 05 May 2008

Whether a person writes a chart or not they are worthy. This is not Gyan and it is not srimat, it is survival!

As things stand the BK would leave a student or ex student to stew in the thought and feeling that they are unworthy and not be in the slightest concerned. In the student this thought can be a spur to progress and in the ex student, well, quite franky it does not matter!

The ability to pick and choose thoughts that work for us is essential. The continuous pressure to be perfect, virtuous and a model for others should not but can lead to all kinds of stresses and strains that do not serve the individual. Arrogance is rife in Gyan, each Gyani is proud of his knowledge, knows best and is superior to the rest of the world. Students are encouraged to listen only to the Kumaris as they know srimat and the rest of the world knows nothing. If just one of the kumaris decides that you are trouble you are out! Out of the Confluence Age, the Golden Age, the receipt of the Murli and the company. I never experienced a comfortable sword of Damocles unless I closed my eyes and forgot about it! This is not to be advised! :D

What is so bad about making the best of ourselves? To learn that we create ourselves everyday, to do our best, be creative and happy is all that is necessary. These so called world servers who will leave their students or ex-students floundering in negative thought have a lot to learn. And what happens if you take advice and the language used doesn't hit the mark? You are a Bhagat! You are out! Now all this may seem a little dramatic but the language the BK's use can be a little like the limited vocabulary used by computers, how many times have you come across a computer problem for just a useless error message to appear on the screen?

No offence given or taken here, the purpose of this writing is not to attack anyone, it is to point our the dangers of negative thinking. If we are in a position where we cannot pick and choose our thoughts how can we learn to do that?

Here is a technique for doing that very thing :D.

You imagine a sun in your heart and a moon a few feet away from you. The sun is warm and yellow and the moon cool and white. Slowly and deliberately move the moon towards the sun, watch as it yellows and warms. Eventually merge the moon with the sun.

It has been said that the person that masters this technique can pick and choose his or her thoughts. It is a matter of trial and error. This technique has helped me.

Thanks to all.

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by joel » 05 May 2008

john morgan wrote:Whether a person writes a chart or not they are worthy. This is not Gyan and it is not srimat, it is survival!
You are right, and I amplify that the effects on a child, told that she is not worthy, are devastating. I know several people sharing this devastation at the hands of the Catholic Church. One calls herself a Catholic survivor! (When I have a chance I will post excerpts of an article by Phillip Roche on the early development of a child's sense of self.)
The ability to pick and choose thoughts that work for us is essential.
The is bread-and-butter Gyan, taught in the first lesson in every course given in the BK world.

Here is one place that I diverge in my personal choices. Basically, in the real world, at the speed of life, the teaching that my first summation -- spontaneous integration of all I have learned and experienced up to now -- needs to be delayed and filtered before being expressed so that there can be an additional process of selection ... For a person such as myself who already (out of fear of being rejected?) over-inhibits his spontaneous child crazy goofiness, which is his natural response to the world, and can be lovable and childlike ... such teachings are toxic. My mother says that the shine left my eyes while I was a BK. People who are hyperv-igilant already do not need such teachings! Beware of sin! Beware of evil!! Or your karma will come to get you and you will be torn into pieces by demons.

Now obviously it was me who practiced and created this. I could have ignored all that and just remembered Baba. "The teaching is perfect, but the practitioners are numberwise, i.e. varying degrees of perfection." Only one became perfect, we are told. "The problem is not the teaching, the problem is you and me, although the teaching works for everyone. Maybe you need to emphasize a different part of it." So what was a unique path with attainments unique in the human world, genuine brotherly vision, purity, is an individual chaotic process with no guarantee whatever: it is their own karma if they try and fail. One size fits all, except for those for who it does not.

So as far as being fulfilled and rounded as a person, I have as much chance as a Christian or in any other path or religion I might choose. "We are unique. God teaches us directly. Only here does the Father speak directly to the children." Yes, that sounds convincing, yet many other cultures experience God manifesting in their midst. Blessing to you and your path. Yours is but one of many, respectable in many ways, not uniquely successful.

That out of my system I agree with much of what follows:
The continuous pressure to be perfect, virtuous and a model for others should not but can lead to all kinds of stresses and strains that do not serve the individual.
Ain't it the truth!
Arrogance is rife in Gyan, each Gyani is proud of his knowledge, knows best and is superior to the rest of the world. Students are encouraged to listen only to the Kumaris as they know srimat and the rest of the world knows nothing. If just one of the Kumaris decides that you are trouble you are out! Out of the Confluence Age, the Golden Age, the receipt of the Murli and the company. I never experienced a comfortable sword of Damocles unless I closed my eyes and forgot about it! This is not to be advised! :D
I think these are organizational dynamics inherent as a group grows larger, now matter how charismatic and wise the founder.
What is so bad about making the best of ourselves? To learn that we create ourselves everyday, to do our best, be creative and happy is all that is necessary.
Yes, make the best of your life. Those who practice soul-consciousness are also creating their life experiences. One path of many.
These so called world servers who will leave their students or ex-students floundering in negative thought have a lot to learn. And what happens if you take advice and the language used doesn't hit the mark? You are a Bhagat! You are out! Now all this may seem a little dramatic but the language the BKs use can be a little like the limited vocabulary used by computers, how many times have you come across a computer problem for just a useless error message to appear on the screen? No offence given or taken here, the purpose of this writing is not to attack anyone, it is to point our the dangers of negative thinking. If we are in a position where we cannot pick and choose our thoughts how can we learn to do that?
Japanese attempting to speak in English attempt to pick and choose their words, delaying their responses in what should be conversational rhythms anywhere from tens to seconds to minutes and longer. Many have no idea of how much time has passed when they come back with their carefully crafted sentence. Taking time to pick and choose our thoughts ... is for me, at this moment in my life, something similar. Stopping myself and going away, hoping to come up with something to do, be or say. In contrast with the feeling of jumping into the river of life, the river of relating to others. You respond right now and that is what your response was. That is something different from taking the time needed for decisions of consequence and involving commitments.
Here is a technique for doing that very thing :D

You imagine a sun in your heart and a moon a few feet away from you. The sun is warm and yellow and the moon cool and white. Slowly and deliberately move the moon towards the sun, watch as it yellows and warms. Eventually merge the moon with the sun.

It has been said that the person that masters this technique can pick and choose his or her thoughts. It is a matter of trial and error. This technique has helped me.
I am glad to hear you share this, creating the warmth and images internally. Our power to influence ourselves. I am sure it has been very valuable to you, which I don't mean to diminish by my personal process preferences.
Thanks to all.
Namaste!

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by john morgan » 07 May 2008

joel wrote:This is bread-and-butter Gyan, taught in the first lesson in every course given in the BK world.
Joel was referring to topic of picking and choosing thoughts. Because it is a first lesson it doesn't mean it is an easy topic to master. At first there may be an array of thoughts. "Yes, that ones OK to speak or put into action but that ones best left alone." Such may be the internal dialogue. At this stage the main thing that has changed is that certain thoughts and actions are considered unworthy and are therefore not brought into action. The topic becomes a little deeper when one considers the basis on which one creates thought. Developing this strength means that less thought that is not worth acting upon is created.

We often create thoughts about situations, there was pain and we think "this person or persons did this to me." If we are not careful unpleasant situations from the past can feature dominantly in our lives. Each of us has the power to create antidotes for whatever ails us, such is the strength in good healthy constructive thought. Whatever is given has also to be taken, a person can give me disregard and I can choose whether or not to pick it up. A person can also send goodwill my way and I have the choice of appreciating it or missing it. We all have the ability to help ourselves, the main way in which others can help us is to point this out.

The only conclusions in a persons life are those that we create or agree to. Others can lay things on us temporarily, in the long term it is we who decide where we are going. Sometimes thought can be closely allied to stress, releasing one (thought or stress) can have an effect on the other. A person may think "I am like this" or "I am like that," they may be temporarily, the truth is that every aspect of us is changing constantly. For example a person who considers themselves depressed or unworthy has only to think happiness and worthiness thoughts in order to change. Thought habits can also appear fixed, closer examination will dispel this mirage.

Each atom is not fixed, science tells us that every atom is made up of smaller parts and lots of space. Every part of every star that moves through the sky is in motion too. Leaving behind thought that is meant to compensate for something that needs or needed fixing in us will bring the ability to create brand new thoughts much closer. Consciousness is never frozen, it is constantly in motion, the personal history we carry around can often be put to one side, its amazing what we can do with no excess baggage and airline flights are cheaper too.

What is so wonderful about the Murli? It is good clean honest food for thought. When well digested its mega-nutrition properties become evident, but the Murli cannot show its wonders without your mind.

Thanks to all, especially Sister Jannister.

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by paulkershaw » 07 May 2008

What follows is an excerpt from the latest channeling provided by the Angel Kryon (of Magnetic Service ...) as brought through by his South African channel Mr David Brown. (website http://www.kryon.org.za) I feel it explains and answers lot about so called sacred texts (Murli etc) being available for all of humankind to choose whether or not they want to read them.

Kryon lets us know that it should be a personal choice and not an oppression process, and he also knows how many souls are on earth too ...

“There is a consciousness available to all to bring love into their hearts. Many people think that they can and do love and many people think love just doesn’t exist. This planet hasn’t really experienced true love in all of its existence even when we include the lifetimes gone by, lost civilisations of which scientists have found no evidence, true love has never really been found on this planet.

True love is coming to this planet; and love is not suppression or oppression or repression. Love begins with choices and those who have secret knowledge and secret wisdom have it to share. It is theirs to share it is not theirs to keep to themselves and hide from others. That knowledge was given to them to give to everybody, to share with the world not to hide behind closed doors and not to keep sacred texts in hidden libraries for only a handful to read.

There is a price to pay for everybody who is given gifts for humanity by Spirit world and those gifts stay behind closed doors. Love and knowledge must be shared. Once again, there are many, many ways to reach the Divine and if you keep on seeking and keep on seeking and keep on seeking you will surely find what you are looking for. If it is in your heart to find out the truth to understand something you will find out that truth on all levels.

It is not a Divine plan to have suppressed consciousness on planet earth. The plan of Spirit world is to see this planet filled with love, filled with joy, to see everybody’s hearts vibrating with love and freedom. There is more than enough for 6 billion people. There is so much energy on this planet and so much energy in this Universe so that even if the population doubles, trebles or quadruples you will never be in need. But that is not the reality of planet earth.”


As the above is only a small excerpt which I feel may be relevant subject information from an established spirit teacher, you may wish to read the full channeling if you have interest here: http://www.kryon.org.za/ChannellingNo323.htm

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by andrey » 07 May 2008

See what you have to do for all the promises in heaven :| But only on some conditions, heaven is yours. Conditionally, not unconditionally.
Heaven has always been conditional.

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